Mole25

[Mole25]

Hi All,

I am new here and have been reading your experiences with the tapering of Celexa/Citralopram. I seem to be in a bad phase again at 1,5mg. Six hours of neck pain with muscular spasms. One of you guys wrote you took Epilim - or has anybody a tip on supplements which make you calmer and reduce neuro/muscular spasms. Its driving me nuts.

All the best Mole

[scallywag]

Mole25 -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

 

Muscle spasms are often withdrawal symptoms, as you've probably guessed. It can be useful to know other common symptoms so here are three links with additional information:

What is withdrawal syndrome.

Important topics about symptoms including sleep problems.

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

We don't suggest drugs to deal with symptoms caused by other drugs. In fact we strongly discourage such an approach because it can lead to interactions between drugs and potentially to being on a cocktail of 3 or more drugs which can be quite a tangle to taper off. 

 

Many people find taking omega 3 fatty acids and magnesium helpful during withdrawal. Pick one or the other and start at a low dose. You can read more about each supplement at these links:

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil).

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker. -- magnesium can be a muscle relaxant so it might be the better one to try first.

 

Please tell us more about your experience with citalopram:  When did you start taking it? When did you start decreasing dose?  What are the dosage steps you took from the start of your taper until now? When, as best as you can remember, did you make the dosage steps? How are you creating your taper doses - cutting the tablet, crushing the tablet & weighing the pieces+powder, making a liquid?

 

Then, once you've got that sorted, please create a posting signature that summarizes your history -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly:

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
  
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
  
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
  
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
  
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs.
  
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.
  
  

Some discussion topics relevant to your situation:

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?.

Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

This is YOUR introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community. I hope you'll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation. I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but am glad that you found us.

Edited August 5, 2017 by scallywag

[Mole25]

Hi Scallywag,

will do a signature tmw. Thanks so much for yr kind response. I am also on a German Website ADFD - but sometimes it nice to "talk" in your own language. 

Will get back to you tmw. Mole

[Mole25]

Hi Persistente, Tweet and Vonne,

and Eboyd, and anyone I have left out,

 

Don't give up. I thought I could relax today. But of course when you teach English (only once a week) you are indeed performing. So I am nervous and having a little brain pain. But I will relax today on the balcony with my new book.  By the way, that has improved. The pain used to be so bad that I could not concentrate on a book.

 

My "Charly" as I call him just likes what he knows. Do anything different - go shopping - he gets worked up (anxiety). So I will chill out with my massage TENS.

 

Lets all cheer each other up. I shall take my cannibis CBT-Oil and  flirt with my husband on the balcony (ha ha). Take my mind of my "Charly".

 

Do you guys give your wave symptoms a name?

 

Eboyd - you inspire us to carry on.

 

I live in Germany - so I guess you guys will be getting up soon. (6 hrs behind us - pls do correct me)

 

Lets hear about how you keep your mind of this. What are your hobbies?

 

Take care, Mole and all have a good, good day.

 

 

[Mole25]

Tweet, you are right - We shall be all writing our success stories - SOON!!!

 

Mole

[Vonnegutjunky]

Mole I love dr joe!!! Its so amazing that you mention him! I have recently been watching his YouTube videos!!! I had no idea he had meditations too, I am new to his work. Hope you have a blessed day and your forever window opens up for you. 

[eboyd]

Thank you Mole.  I think we all just do what we can to get through.  During a wave, there isn't much I am able to do.  I usually lay in bed and watch Netflix.  When I am in a window, I do everything I love to do.  Spend time with my kids and husband, get back to my training, and work hard to build up my business.  I am a personal trainer.  I come across a lot of people, mostly women, who want off meds or don't want to take them anymore.  I really go to bat for those people.  Mostly just making sure they are physically well and have good eating habits before they start the process.  However, I am seriously considering using short term disability for the summer.  I am only able to work about 2 weeks out of the month right now and it really stresses me out when I can't be there for my clients.  But to me, that feels like giving up and I am not ready to give up yet.

[Tweet]

Ok. Who is Dr. Joe? Right now I'll listen to ANYONE who might help. No TV in our house. Is he on YouTube?

 

[Tweet]

I need to make salsa, jam, and jelly for my family. Been putting it off for a month. For some reason my anxiety rushes up when I start and I just can't do it.( Very weird, but it could be partially claustrophobia since I live with three big men and my kitchen is 10x14.)

I am thinking if I listen to or watch someone positive I will be able to do it. 

It took me 6 weeks to get the anxiety down do I could make croissants. 

Ah, the joys of paws ...

[persistente]

I believe they were talking about Joe Dispenza. I hope it helps.

[Mole25]

Hi Tweet and Eboyd, Persist and Vonne  and all other fellow sufferers,

 

Dr Joe - wow does he have a nice voice -. It is about rewiring the brain - neuroplasticity - if I have spelt it right -  I have the CDs. Dr Joe Dispenza - Meditations for Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself -  

 

There seems to be no "perfect" way to deal with our withdrawal pain - but his meditation carries me over and relaxes me. Sometimes you cannot control your neuro-emotions and brain blips - they come unexpectedy when you have this intense anxiety in the morning. But you sometimes can control and stop subsequential bad thoughts - and yes I do with DNRS and Dr Joe.  

 

No, Eboyd - you are not giving up - you have to watch yourself too and do what is best for you. You have a wonderful job, being able to help others. It sounds very rewarding. I am sorry that your waves force you to stay in bed. Gosh, that is hard.

 

Had a half a window today. And my daughter arrived unexpectedly from Munich - Was a lovely surprise. 

 

I could have a wave tmw - lets hope I can cope.

 

Probably, I will stay in and get out my paints. When I have a wave I am intensly scared of everything and I get a painful brain blip when I see people I know or even a quiet sound jolts through me. 

 

Vonne - I will have to see Dr. Joe on you-tube.

 

It is now 11 at night here -  All have a great day,  Mole

[eboyd]

Thanks for the words of support Mole.  I did decide it would be best to go on leave until I am through this.  Not exactly what I want to do, but it is what I need.  I am looking forward to spending the summer with my kids and rejoining the symphony orchestra the next town over for the summer performances.  I am hoping this helps my brain to focus more and teaches it to be able to interpret and then physically play the music.  It was very emotional speaking to all my clients and handing them off to other trainers.  I came so far with so many of them.  I guess I needed them too.  It gave me purpose.  I have other purposes, but it was something I was truly passionate about.  I feel kind of lost now, but at the same time grateful to be able to slow down and take a lot off my plate.  I just have to remember this isn't forever, just for right now.  

 

I really like Michael Sealey.  I listen to him on youtube when I can't sleep.  Which apparently is tonight.  It was a rough day and I have been an emotional wreck.  Maybe tomorrow I will get a window...I am due for one.

[eboyd]

Tweet, do you feel like the entire task of making jam is overwhelming?  I get it.  I procrastinate more than usual because the thought of starting a complex task is very overwhelming.  Maybe break it down into small tasks every day.  I am not sure what all goes into making jam.  Do you have to can it while it is hot?  Make it and freeze or refrigerate until you are feeling like you can jar it.  Things don't need to be done all at once do they? 

[Mole25]

Hi there, dear All,

 

A wave day - but not so bad.

 

Yeh, just a little job of cooking can trigger my "Charly". Drives me nuts. So I say "calm down, Charly, you have cooked this 1000 times before.  Charly, I choose to rewire you and  r e l a x."  Breathe in 3 times, feel the relaxed shoulders. Works 9 times out of 10.

 

My wave day today - was quite good. However, I chose to watch a film with Emma Thomson about  this boy whose parents are Jehovas Witnesses and he needs a blood transfusion. Brilliant film and book. But I experienced the emotions in the film "live" in my brain - one to one. It was too much for me. Next time I will watch a comedy or a musical.

 

Eboyd, yes I can imagine how difficult it was for you - to hand over your clients. Have a great Summer with your family. 

 

Dear all, if you have persistant stupid scares, try to get hooked into a book - persevere with the first 10 pages - dont give up.

 

Or to get off stupid thoughts immediately play online:

       1) Word eight 

        2) Spider or other card games

          3) Scrabble (download from Amazon) Classic word game -  You can adjust the level and also play solo. I am now playing it again in German so I hope to beat my friend, an ex-teacher.

 

Take care, my dears -  We are getting there!!!!!

 

Mole

 

 

[Mole25]

Eboyd - what instrument do you play?

 

And let us not only talk of our waves - I am really interested in your way of life, your hobbies- my husband, an Architect, worked in America for 17 years. 

 

Tweet - what jam do you make? Get your 3 big men to help you. 😉

 

Persistente and Vonne,  what takes your mind off things?

 

Take care, Mole

[Nena59]

Hello All,

I am so happy that there is some more regular correspondence in this group. I have issues that are similar to you all here and it makes me feel so much better to know that what I am going through is normal for PAWS. I struggle with lack of energy to do the things that I used to love. I've pretty much given up on most of it.

I spend a lot of time walking with my dog...the weather has been nicer and it's so nice to get out in the fresh air. Last night I got back from a short trip with my husband. We went climbing at Smith Rock State Park in Oregon. What a beautiful place. Although I was definitely wavy both mornings, climbing pushes away most of everything except getting up that cliff one hand or foot hold at a tome. I'm so fortunate to be able to do it. Sleeping in a tent isn't my favorite, but it was so nice to be in fresh outside air all night long.

 

Does anyone else find that they start the day in a wave and end most days in a window? I tend not to have all day waves or all day windows.

Hope you all have a great window day!

[eboyd]

I play violin.  I am getting new strings on it today.  I start rehearsals on Monday.  Not exactly sure if I am looking forward to it or not, though.  I am in a part of this wave where there is a dark rain cloud over my head...I really van't wait to hit a window.  Ugh.  

Nena, I love that you rock climb.  I myself enjoy trail running followed by a swim across a small lake and back which is not far from my house.  I am a very physical person.  Other hobbies include Crossfit and Olympic Weightlifting.  Yes, I am one of those people.  I do get to enjoy those activities only when I am in a window, though.  

I took my 5 year old daughter to the library today and I did get a book to read.  It is about how you can use your diet to promote healing.  I think we all have figured out that the cleaner we eat the better our bodies work.  Its still nice to have some reading material that interests me.  

[eboyd]

Also, I am in a wave for about 2 weeks straight and in a window for about 2 weeks.

[Mole25]

Dear All,

 

Nena - it must be lovely to have a dog - it gets you out. I will google where you go for your walk. Yes, my day starts with a wave and now a window comes around 2pm.

But today I woke up with Joe Dispenzs's words. Trying to think positive in the morning - hard work.

 

Eboyd - wow - I love music, classical, jazz, and of course the music I "grew" up with. - Santana, Genesis, Pop and Turkish/Egyptian music for my belly dancing. I will send you a photo of me in my belly dancing costume - at my age you do not show your belly.

 

Well, you all keep fit and are producing positive chemistry in the brain.

 

This is a short reply because I do voluntary work in the Home for the elderly.  "see" you later,

 

Take care, Mole

[Songbird]

@Mole25 , @persistente, @eboyd and @Nena59  I've moved your conversation out of the waves and windows topic as it was going off topic.  

It's great that you're supporting each other - it's best to do this in each other's intro topics.  Or you could start a topic in the "Off Topic" forum to converse about non-withdrawal things.

[ChessieCat]

The other option is to have a 4 way PM conversation.

[Mole25]

I do not know how to start off topic  forum. I think we want to converse everyday and support each other during our waves and windows.

Can you help us to create an off topic forum and transfer our conversation there? Thanks in advance.

 

Mole

[Mole25]

What is PM?

 

Mole

[Songbird]

8 hours ago, Mole25 said:

What is PM?

 

Mole

 

Private messages - go to the top of the page and click on the little envelope icon.  You can then click on "compose new" and in the "to" field add the names of the members you want to converse with.

[Tweet]

On 5/29/2019 at 3:50 PM, persistente said:

I believe they were talking about Joe Dispenza. I hope it helps.

Thanks. I’ll check him out.

[Tweet]

On 5/30/2019 at 2:22 PM, Nena59 said:

Hello All,

I am so happy that there is some more regular correspondence in this group. I have issues that are similar to you all here and it makes me feel so much better to know that what I am going through is normal for PAWS. I struggle with lack of energy to do the things that I used to love. I've pretty much given up on most of it.

I spend a lot of time walking with my dog...the weather has been nicer and it's so nice to get out in the fresh air. Last night I got back from a short trip with my husband. We went climbing at Smith Rock State Park in Oregon. What a beautiful place. Although I was definitely wavy both mornings, climbing pushes away most of everything except getting up that cliff one hand or foot hold at a tome. I'm so fortunate to be able to do it. Sleeping in a tent isn't my favorite, but it was so nice to be in fresh outside air all night long.

 

Does anyone else find that they start the day in a wave and end most days in a window? I tend not to have all day waves or all day windows.

Hope you all have a great window day!

Yes, I start my days in a horrible wave. It is always the same! And then end with a window.

Not the greatest way to begin each day, for sure...

[Tweet]

On 5/30/2019 at 12:01 PM, Mole25 said:

Eboyd - what instrument do you play?

 

And let us not only talk of our waves - I am really interested in your way of life, your hobbies- my husband, an Architect, worked in America for 17 years. 

 

Tweet - what jam do you make? Get your 3 big men to help you. 😉

 

Persistente and Vonne,  what takes your mind off things?

 

Take care, Mole

Hi Mole. I make kumquat, since my son grows them, and I am now making peach and plum jam and organic grape jelly. 😋

I managed a batch of mild salsa today and got about 20 jars out of it. 

Why it didn’t bother me to can today I have NO idea, but that is how I roll lately.

Just work around those waves...

My 3 big men helped by being absent lol!😉

[Tweet]

On 5/29/2019 at 11:20 PM, eboyd said:

Tweet, do you feel like the entire task of making jam is overwhelming?  I get it.  I procrastinate more than usual because the thought of starting a complex task is very overwhelming.  Maybe break it down into small tasks every day.  I am not sure what all goes into making jam.  Do you have to can it while it is hot?  Make it and freeze or refrigerate until you are feeling like you can jar it.  Things don't need to be done all at once do they? 

Those are some good ideas eboyd.

I think I will break it up, doing the fruit and then the next day doing the rest.

Yes, the complex tasks totally overwhelm me for some reason.

Triggers a lot of anxiety. 

[Mole25]

Hi Persistente, Eboyd, Tweet, and Nena and Vonne,

 

Tweet, I understand you very well. If I am having a bad wave, even cooking or making bread with the bread machine gets me all nervous with additional brain pain.

Then I get out a ready-made pizza, stick it in the oven and just make a salad. So you got rid of your 3 big men.  I send mine to the sauna with my neighbour!!!

What is salsa - sorry I am a dimwit when it comes to cooking. I thought salsa is a dance - 😂

 

And today, well it should have been wave day (I have a window day and wave day sometimes) well it was to a certain extent a wave day but I forced myself to go to into town to the second-hand shop.   Whoopppeeee!! I used the techniques of DNRS - which had a certain calming effects on my nerves. It is starting to work. I have to practice everyday for 6 months. And then I did my Dr Joe Dispenza meditation  - which also helped.

 

Vonne, which CD do you like of Dr. Joe Dispenza - I like the one on Space.

 

Eboyd - how are doing you in your wave. Hope you are OK.

 

By the way, are you guys also extremely noise-sensitive - Gosh, I sometimes jump when the phone rings. It drives me nuts.

 

BUT I could concentrate on my portrait today. Maybe finish it tmw.

 

ALL have a great Sunday.  I wish you  all  God's blessing and a  super  l  o  n  g  window the whole day!!

 

Take care, Mole

 

 

 

[eboyd]

Salsa is a mixture of tomatoes, peppers, onions, cilantro, and seasonings.  You put it on top of mexican dishes, omelettes, or I like to top my chicken breast with it and some guacamole.  Super delicious.  There are other types of salsa too, but the traditional is tomato based.  

I came out of the wave for the most part 2 days ago.  I was able to get back to the gym and put some work in.  I am going for a run with my doggo here shortly today.  

I have been pretty busy with my kiddos too.  My oldest was in a production of The Lion King for her school and my youngest finally let me cut her hair.  My middle is at her dad's for the weekend, but will be home tonight.  I am kind of liking not being on a schedule.  I am getting more rest and I feel less stressed with being out of work.  Maybe this will help me heal faster.  I hope everyone is doing well and is finding ways to cope with their waves.  Please stay updated on how you are doing.  I think it is great to have support from people who know firsthand what you are going through.

[Mole25]

Hi Eboyd and the rest of fellow sufferers,

 

Window started at 1 pm so that I could concentrate on my friend who came at 2 pm.

Good, Eboyd, you are feeling less stressed. It is wierd - but sometimes just the smallest of things brings  on a brain blip. But now I must do my DNRS exercises - and practice and practice - with like:  

You have a negative thought - you say - Shut up Charley - you are aware they are not you - just thoughts then you say I choose to 

to rewire you and relax- You breathe in deeply and say other positive sentences.

 

Thanks for explaining salsa - I guess it is too complicated for me - I am a bad cook.

 

Good that you get out for a run and you go to the gym. Really good for your brain chemistry.

Tomorrow I go belly dancing. I have to drive the car but I like driving. Will chill out on the balcony.

 

And how are the rest of  you doing - did you have a nice Sunday? Who else is "doing" Dr. Joe Dispenza?

 

Who else has got some good tips to cope with Waves and Windows?

 

Take care, Mole

 

PS It would be nice to see a picture of the stage Lion King. I have trouble with loading a painting from a file. 

[Tweet]

Sorry mole,  just saw this.  Dont know why.  Eboyd that was a great description of salsa! I live about 2 hours from the mexican border so salsa is like ketchup for us lol. 

Hope you all are having Windows  today😃🌶

[eboyd]

Tweet, I love slasa, but only the fresh stuff.  Super delicious.  I am about 40 minutes from the Canadian border.  We are opposite side of the country.  I have been in a window for almost a week now.  Makes me super excited.  How is everyone doing?  Hopefully good.

[Mole25]

Hi Eboyd,

 

Although I hardly know you, I feel almost like crying in happiness for you Eboyd - wow, super - a whole week in a window - this is good news. I do hope it continues.

 

With me, I mostly have a window in the afternoon. Sometimes around about midday the wave reaches it's peak - a juckky feeling of intense scaredness (have a laugh - I always say - my Charly has an organism around about 12:00) Then it gets better.

Went to Duisburg ydy to the Lembrock museum. The sculptor met up with in Paris with Rodin - they did not get along with each other - it was very interesting but I was in a wave - and it was difficult to concentrate. My husband and I came home about 3 and I was exhausted.

 

What do you guys do in a wave - do you try to go out and mix with people. Do you drive the car? How do you cope? Any tips? I am using affirmations and working with the DNRS programme.

 

Hi Tweet - so you like hot food  and use salsa like ketchup - wow! - well, I think I have to pass on this cos I get indigestion  very quickly - has improved since I have cut down on sugars (this is recommended in coping with our complaint). Did you check out Dr Joe Dispenza? When do your windows arrive in the afternoon?

 

My ways of coping:  playing scrabble, housework and belly dancing and gardening.

 

PS. If you read the book Devils candy - the author had longer and longer periods of windows in the afternoons - and the waves became increasingly shorter until they disappeared - whooopppeeeee!!! 

 

Take care, Mole

 

[eboyd]

Hi Mole,

 

Other than the emotional roller coaster ride I am usually on, my physical symptoms have been tolerable for a little over a week now.  Waves usually hit hard when my hormones change.  I have about 10 more good days (I hope) before I will probably be bedridden for 2 weeks again.  That seems to be the pattern.  I just rest the whole time.  I am not able to do much physically during that time.  At least my windows are lasting a couple of weeks now.  It would be great if my emotions would stabilize better, though.  I get irritated very easily and have to take a "time out".  I have never heard of the book Devil's Candy.  May have to look into it.  I hope all is well with everyone!

[Tweet]

On 6/5/2019 at 1:49 PM, eboyd said:

Tweet, I love slasa, but only the fresh stuff.  Super delicious.  I am about 40 minutes from the Canadian border.  We are opposite side of the country.  I have been in a window for almost a week now.  Makes me super excited.  How is everyone doing?  Hopefully good.

Sooo happy for you eboyd.  Hope your still riding that wave 🌊 😁 

I am still hanging in there.  Mornings are hell as usual.  Am not repeating to myself I wish I were dead quite as much as I  make coffee for everyone. Not repeating I hate my life quite as much as I brush my teeth.  Not hoping a semi will hit me as I drive the 2 lane roads.  Actually trying to be careful. 

I just try to remember the horror I was engulfed in 6 months ago and to think in 6 more months THIS  will be gone too.  Anhedonia and anxiety,  lack of sleep have to go sometime.  I took my first watercolor lesson at my husband's urging last week.  Almost felt enjoyable to do art again...Hope that almost of anhedonia will spark and kindle... 

Most of all it was nice to get my mind completely focused on something and not have those 24-7 ruminating thoughts going on as I have for what seems like forever,  even in my sleep.  Very mentally refreshing. My husband is a keeper.  Too bad I feel nothing for him or anyone else right now... 

I am thankful for him and for the distance I have come. 🤗