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Snorky: Reinstatement of amitriptyline


Snorky

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Hi All

 

58 year old female. Prescribed ADs about twenty years ago for combo of anxiety and depression. (Mainly Venlafaxine, citalopram etc. Nine months ago I changed to amitriptyline (v minimal taper off ven) Came off amitriptyline about five weeks ago, when on 25mg as v undesirable side effects, unable to properly function and work etc. V bad physical and mental issues, so used this site to understand more about cold turkey and reinstatement etc. Didn’t know about appropriate reinstatement rate so agreed with Doc two weeks to restart at 5mg amitriptyline. This made me a lot worse, so last Friday agreed to issue oral suspension so I can reinstate at 2.5mg to see how that is. (25ml/5 solution so I have to take 0.5 ml to equate to 2.5mg) This will only cost surgery £20 pm, so shouldn’t be a problem. 

 

My question:

 

It will take the pharmacy a week or so to obtain liquid med. I don’t think I can tolerate current symptoms for that period. Should I somehow try to get by, or reduce 5mg to every other day etc?

 

Thanks for reading.

 

S

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Welcome to SA, Snorky.

 

It would be better to try to get by.  Every other day dosing is not recommended.  It causes the amount of the medication in your bloodstream to go up and down, battering your nervous system.

 

It sounds as if you may have had an adverse reaction to the Amitriptyline.  If so, this is not a good drug for you, and reinstatement wouldn't be a good idea.

1.  How soon did the bad symptoms start after you first started taking the drug?  

2. Did the symptoms changes after you cold-turkeyed?  

3. You said your symptoms became worse after you reinstated 5mg.  How soon after reinstating did the symptoms start?

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
41 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Welcome to SA, Snorky.

 

It would be better to try to get by.  Every other day dosing is not recommended.  It causes the amount of the medication in your bloodstream to go up and down, battering your nervous system.

 

It sounds as if you may have had an adverse reaction to the Amitriptyline.  If so, this is not a good drug for you, and reinstatement wouldn't be a good idea.

1.  How soon did the bad symptoms start after you first started taking the drug?  

2. Did the symptoms changes after you cold-turkeyed?  

3. You said your symptoms became worse after you reinstated 5mg.  How soon after reinstating did the symptoms start?

Thanks

 

1.  Pretty early. Looking at my diary, within weeks of commencement at initial dose of 25mg.

 

2. Felt significantly better for a week or so, then got v bad anxiety/mental anguish type stuff. Progressively got worse with v severe pain, shakes and stiffness. 

 

3. Within about a week of 5mg, physical neuro type symptoms got much worse. Yesterday, nerve pain down spine and radiating to arms and legs-could hardly walk.

 

Thank you

 

 

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
1 hour ago, Snorky said:

Within about a week of 5mg, physical neuro type symptoms got much worse. Yesterday, nerve pain down spine and radiating to arms and legs-could hardly walk.

 

The symptoms of withdrawal and adverse reaction are very similar.  Looking at your answer to #2, it's possible you felt better because you weren't putting the drug in your system, then the withdrawal kicked in.  Another possibility is that your reaction was due to side effects. Support for this possibility comes from the fact (#1) that your reaction didn't happen immediately but after several weeks.  Side effects tend to lessen as your dose gets smaller.  It's a complicated question of whether your symptoms stem from an adverse reaction, side effects or withdrawal.

 

If you have an adverse reaction to the drug, it's never going to work for you, and reinstatement won't help and in fact would be counterproductive.

If it's side effects, it's possible they would abate at the lower dose and the reinstatement could help with your withdrawal symptoms.  

 

It's your decision what to do.  One possibility is to use these days waiting for the liquid preparation to gauge your symptoms.  Keeping daily notes on paper is helpful.  Then you could reinstate the liquid at 2.5mg.  If you have a bad reaction to it, very likely the culprit is the drug--adverse reaction--and you should discontinue it immediately.

 

 

 

Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
53 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

The symptoms of withdrawal and adverse reaction are very similar.  Looking at your answer to #2, it's possible you felt better because you were putting the drug in your system, then the withdrawal kicked in.  Another possibility is that your reaction was due to side effects. Support for this possibility comes from the fact (#1) that your reaction didn't happen immediately but after several weeks.  Side effects tend to lessen as your dose gets smaller.  It's a complicated question of whether your symptoms stem from an adverse reaction, side effects or withdrawal.

 

If you have an adverse reaction to the drug, it's never going to work for you, and reinstatement won't help and in fact would be counterproductive.

If it's side effects, it's possible they would abate at the lower dose and the reinstatement could help with your withdrawal symptoms.  

 

It's your decision what to do.  One possibility is to use these days waiting for the liquid preparation to gauge your symptoms.  Keeping daily notes on paper is helpful.  Then you could reinstate the liquid at 2.5mg.  If you have a bad reaction to it, very likely the culprit is the drug--adverse reaction--and you should discontinue it immediately.

 

 

 

Thanks.  I must admit I hadn’t separated side effects from adverse reaction. I can see what you mean though. Also gets even more confusing reconciling discontinuation syndrome.

 

The waves also vary greatly. Yesterday,  overwhelmingly physical, today horrible mental anguish sort of thing. If anything, the mental anguish is worse.

 

Will carry on with 5mg until the 2.5 is available. My decision, but could well be “reinstating” something that’s making me v ill.

 

Thank you.

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

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  • manymoretodays changed the title to Snorky: Reinstatement of amitriptyline

Hi

 

The other thing that confuses me is why the 5mg dose might generate such truly unbearable symptoms not seen on much higher doses (100mg) etc? 

 

If if it was “adverse reaction”, wouldn’t that have manifested earlier in the process?

 

Thanks

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment

Update

 

Picked up my 2.5mg (liquid) earlier today. Will let you know how I get on with it. Gist of conversation with Doc:

 

1. If symptoms ease with 2.5mg, must have been some adverse reaction with 5mg.

 

2. If symptoms persist, must be adverse reaction to amitriptyline, so stop.

 

3. If symptoms persist, God help me.

 

Interestingly, he thought bad reaction to 5mg, with all horrendous symptoms, was “partly due to anxiety “...

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
11 hours ago, Snorky said:

f if it was “adverse reaction”, wouldn’t that have manifested earlier in the process?

Yes.  However, your system has been destabilized by jumping off at 25mg.  It's not the same system as when you were taking 100g.  

 

You'll know from the symptoms after you start 2.5.  If it's side effects it's possible that the cause of the symptoms was that the 5mg reinstatement was too high and your system couldn't take it.  I'm hoping the 2.5 will be well tolerated and will mitigate the withdrawal, as well as causing fewer side effects.  

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Interestingly, he thought bad reaction to 5mg, with all horrendous symptoms, was “partly due to anxiety “...

 

Psychiatrists will always say that, that it's the "return of the underlying condition." 

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
2 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Yes.  However, your system has been destabilized by jumping off at 25mg.  It's not the same system as when you were taking 100g.  

 

You'll know from the symptoms after you start 2.5.  If it's side effects it's possible that the cause of the symptoms was that the 5mg reinstatement was too high and your system couldn't take it.  I'm hoping the 2.5 will be well tolerated and will mitigate the withdrawal, as well as causing fewer side effects.  

 

 

 

Psychiatrists will always say that, that it's the "return of the underlying condition." 

Thanks again

 

Not optimistic, but will see how it goes and update. 

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment

Update

 

First 2.5mg dose taken. Good- less pain overnight and slightly better sleep. V bad- woke up crippled with mental anguish confusion, anxiety etc. 

 

Might be response to initial reduction, but v strange that 5mg creates the pain and 2.5mg creates the awful mental anguish.

 

Just an initial observation.

 

Thank you

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
1 hour ago, Snorky said:

Just an initial observation.

 

Please keep us updated.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
12 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

Please keep us updated.

Thanks for your continued interest. Of course it could be that the anguish/confusion could be nothing to do with the 2.5mg amitriptyline. It could be withdrawal or underlying depression/anxiety?

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
14 minutes ago, Snorky said:

It could be withdrawal

My thought exactly.  Less likely that it's underlying depression/anxiety.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
6 minutes ago, Gridley said:

My thought exactly.  Less likely that it's underlying depression/anxiety.

Thanks. Should have also mentioned feeling palpably depressed and black today for the first time in ages. Didn’t have this feeling, even during cold turkey period. 

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
1 hour ago, Snorky said:

Thanks. Should have also mentioned feeling palpably depressed and black today for the first time in ages. Didn’t have this feeling, even during cold turkey period. 

Let's see what happens over the next week or so.  Keep daily symptom notes so you can refer back to them, symptoms and how ling after you took the 2.5 it occurred.

Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
18 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Let's see what happens over the next week or so.  Keep daily symptom notes so you can refer back to them, symptoms and how ling after you took the 2.5 it occurred.

Thanks again. V distressing feelings. Also weird that nothing like this during the wholeCT and 5mg reinstatement periods. Lots of mental stuff (anguish, confusion and edge) but this different.

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
15 hours ago, Snorky said:

Thanks again. V distressing feelings. Also weird that nothing like this during the wholeCT and 5mg reinstatement periods. Lots of mental stuff (anguish, confusion and edge) but this different.

I'm leaning toward thinking this is an adverse reaction and suggesting you stop.  What are your thoughts?

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Gridley said:

I'm leaning toward thinking this is an adverse reaction and suggesting you stop.  What are your thoughts?

Hi again

 

Short answer -God knows. I think, like everyone else here, I’m playing a constant game of Russian Roulette. I think I should probably keep going for a few days, since that was the deal with the Doc. May end up stopping early next week, hoping that no permanent damage to brain chemistry and/or nervous system. It’s lunchtime here today. While the confusion and anxst is there, not so much of the awful black depression I had yesterday. That said, it didn’t kick in until about 4, when the 2.5mg wore off😡

 

if I do stop, I guess that goes against the grain as far as the reinstatement policy is concerned??

 

Thank you again. Much appreciated.

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment

The other v odd thing since starting 2.5mg is I have v hoarse throat. Not sure, just hoarse. I wonder what that’s all about?

Not “sore”.

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
5 hours ago, Snorky said:

if I do stop, I guess that goes against the grain as far as the reinstatement policy is concerned??

 

If you're having an adverse reaction to the reinstatement, our recommendation is to stop the reinstatement immediately.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
56 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

If you're having an adverse reaction to the reinstatement, our recommendation is to stop the reinstatement immediately.

Thanks.

 

Yes, I get that. However, as we discussed previously,   there are v fine lines between adverse reaction, side effects, withdrawaletc etc. 

There is also the point about when you know the reinstatement hadn’t worked.

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment

Update

 

Only been on 2.5mg reinstatement amitriptyline for 4 days but an absolute wreck. Physical symptoms just as bad (apart from nerve pain, which eased a bit) However, mental/mood symptoms utterly unbearable. Anger, agitation, anxiety, confusion, depression and mental edge.  I need to go back to Doc on Monday for chat and med cert (can't go to work like this)

 

I'm terrified not knowing whether this is adverse reaction to tiny dose of amitriptyline,  previous withdrawal syndrome, or underlying depression/anxiety? The symptoms and playing Russian Roulette is killing me. The only thing I can hold onto is that these mental symptoms weren't as severe in my few months of cold turkey ( between 25mg and reinstatement of 5mg)

 

Hope others are seeing some mitigation of symptoms with reinstatement. 

 

Final question- where do you go if reinstatement fails so palpably?

 

Thanks

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
4 hours ago, Snorky said:

Final question- where do you go if reinstatement fails so palpably?

Then you'll have to wait it out until your system returns to homeostasis.  Unfortunately, we can tell you how long that will take.  For some it happens fairly quickly; for other it takes longer.

 

We strongly encourage the use of non-drug coping skills.  You could take a link at the techniques in these links and see which you think could be helpful to you.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

These technique are helpful for dealing with anxiety.  The last link, feet-on-wall yoga pose, I've found very helpful in calming my anxiety.
 
 
Another thing you can do:  We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.
 
I'm sorry you're feeling so bad.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
58 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Then you'll have to wait it out until your system returns to homeostasis.  Unfortunately, we can tell you how long that will take.  For some it happens fairly quickly; for other it takes longer.

 

We strongly encourage the use of non-drug coping skills.  You could take a link at the techniques in these links and see which you think could be helpful to you.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

These technique are helpful for dealing with anxiety.  The last link, feet-on-wall yoga pose, I've found very helpful in calming my anxiety.
 
 
Another thing you can do:  We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.
 
I'm sorry you're feeling so bad.

Thanks again. Feel even worse than I did when posting earlier. Not sure how bad this bad can get.

 

1. Are you saying Doc will conclude best to stop the 2.5mg?

2. If symptoms then persist, I guess it’s withdrawal or relapse into anxiety/depression?

3. Won’t there be pressure/evidence to start me on something else (aka Russian Roulette) to alleviate symptoms?

 

I’m more terrified at prospect of not being able to return to work, long term stress related absence, than stress of going back to work. 

 

Thanks again.

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment

Forgot to say I bought those Claire Weeks books years ago. Never really helped me then.

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
14 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Thanks again. Feel even worse than I did when posting earlier. Not sure how bad this bad can get.

 

1. Are you saying Doc will conclude best to stop the 2.5mg?

2. If symptoms then persist, I guess it’s withdrawal or relapse into anxiety/depression?

3. Won’t there be pressure/evidence to start me on something else (aka Russian Roulette) to alleviate symptoms?

 

 

1.  I can't say what the doc will say.  I believe you said earlier that's what he said he'd do.  That's definitely what I would recommend.

2.  My best guess is that it's a combination of withdrawal and adverse reaction, with adverse reaction being the stronger component, as you're getting worse and worse.  I wouldn't think relapse (though that's what the doc will likely say) as your symptoms are so varied and so in keeping with typical adverse reaction/withdrawal symptoms.  

3.  I don't know about evidence but very likely there will be pressure to start you on something else (yes, Russian Roulette).  You can always say no.  It's your body.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
11 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

1.  I can't say what the doc will say.  I believe you said earlier that's what he said he'd do.  That's definitely what I would recommend.

2.  My best guess is that it's a combination of withdrawal and adverse reaction, with adverse reaction being the stronger component, as you're getting worse and worse.  I wouldn't think relapse (though that's what the doc will likely say) as your symptoms are so varied and so in keeping with typical adverse reaction/withdrawal symptoms.  

3.  I don't know about evidence but very likely there will be pressure to start you on something else (yes, Russian Roulette).  You can always say no.  It's your body.

Thank you again. I’m hoping there will be some mitigation when I stop the med. I’ve also gone through my notes again, and can see some evidence of mental anguish during cold turkey, but nowhere near what I’m experiencing now. 

 

This time last week I was on 5mg and complaining about nerve pain, not being able to walk around etc. Boy I’d embrace those symptoms now.

 

Thanks

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment

Hi Snorky

 

Welcome to SA. I'm really sorry about your pain and suffering. I skimmed most of your posts and I have many of your symptoms. I am in prolonged WD.

 

I'm 57 y.o. female who did an almost CT off 20 mg cymbalta/duloxetine (unwittingly) in December 2018 - and ;prior to that in Aug 2018 and reinstatement 2 weeks later. 20 mg is lowest dose and cymbalta is SNRI with 12 hour half-life.

 

A few comments I can make from my personal experience - which are intended as support:

  • After my CT in August, I felt fine for a couple of days. Then the anxiety, agoraphobia, panic hit me full bore (MD sanctioned)
  • After my initial reinstatement in September - I immediately experienced the initial side effects that the drug isknown to cause.  I did this on my  own and after learning on SA - this should have been done as a partial I think.
  • Started a 'taper' in December 2018 - which ended up being nearly a CT due to incompetence/negligence of compounding pharmacy. I lost 98-99% of drug overnight. Went into misery for months. I felt OK for a couple of days. Then was hit with a school bus.
  • Since I was likely getting a very miniscule amount of drug - and we didn't know how much - I started at .4 mg. This hasn't mitigated my symptoms - I still have an ongling assortment of new symptoms. Some impair normal functionoing (i.e, leg problems - can't walk for 3 hours). Some others are like yours. Doesn't look like you have brain zaps and some others I have. One big reason for the .4 mg (2 beads) is so I know where I'm stopping from.

I am in prolonged WD now and intend to tough this out. I am using the non-drug approaches and grit to get through this.

 

If my MD hadn't told me I would experience all sorts of physical systems and feel like I was going out of my mind on some days - and determination to get off this drug - I wouldn't have made it this far.

 

Ping if you want. Either way I wish you the very best in working through what you think is best for you. It's been painful for me to decide on managing my situation. @Gridley and the other mods and veterans on this site made this possible.

 

Giuilietta

 

 

Link to comment
6 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

Hi Snorky

 

Welcome to SA. I'm really sorry about your pain and suffering. I skimmed most of your posts and I have many of your symptoms. I am in prolonged WD.

 

I'm 57 y.o. female who did an almost CT off 20 mg cymbalta/duloxetine (unwittingly) in December 2018 - and ;prior to that in Aug 2018 and reinstatement 2 weeks later. 20 mg is lowest dose and cymbalta is SNRI with 12 hour half-life.

 

A few comments I can make from my personal experience - which are intended as support:

  • After my CT in August, I felt fine for a couple of days. Then the anxiety, agoraphobia, panic hit me full bore (MD sanctioned)
  • After my initial reinstatement in September - I immediately experienced the initial side effects that the drug isknown to cause.  I did this on my  own and after learning on SA - this should have been done as a partial I think.
  • Started a 'taper' in December 2018 - which ended up being nearly a CT due to incompetence/negligence of compounding pharmacy. I lost 98-99% of drug overnight. Went into misery for months. I felt OK for a couple of days. Then was hit with a school bus.
  • Since I was likely getting a very miniscule amount of drug - and we didn't know how much - I started at .4 mg. This hasn't mitigated my symptoms - I still have an ongling assortment of new symptoms. Some impair normal functionoing (i.e, leg problems - can't walk for 3 hours). Some others are like yours. Doesn't look like you have brain zaps and some others I have. One big reason for the .4 mg (2 beads) is so I know where I'm stopping from.

I am in prolonged WD now and intend to tough this out. I am using the non-drug approaches and grit to get through this.

 

If my MD hadn't told me I would experience all sorts of physical systems and feel like I was going out of my mind on some days - and determination to get off this drug - I wouldn't have made it this far.

 

Ping if you want. Either way I wish you the very best in working through what you think is best for you. It's been painful for me to decide on managing my situation. @Gridley and the other mods and veterans on this site made this possible.

 

Giuilietta

 

 

Hi G

 

Many thanks for your empathy and insights. Both my husband and Doc advised to tough out the CT, as I’d gone so far. The worry for me was the symptoms were widening over time, so reinstatement at v low dose made perfect sense. I’m also v grateful for Gridley’s constant support and expertise. I’m just clinging on to hope that it’s adverse reaction to tiny reinstated dose of A, but who knows? I wish I could accurately reflect the current mental anguish. V different to anything experienced over last few years, including journey up and down on A, CT and initial 4mg stab at reinstatement.

 

It’s a v palpable tightness and haze, but not like fog. It’s accompanied by v profound blackness, where I’m magnifying the effect of minor things .

 

Watch this space. Hope thing improve for you.

Worsening, not widening.

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment

Update 

 

Have taken 2.5mg for five days now. Today, felt “less weird”, still anxious, agitated and all physical/nervy symptoms, but not the nasty black feelings I had yesterday and Friday. Could it be that it’s taken this long to “stabilise”? What does stabilise even mean in my case?  

 

Thanks

 

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
20 minutes ago, Snorky said:

What does stabilise even mean in my case?  

 

 

Here's hoping, Snorky!

 

Here is what Brassmonkey has written about "stability."  Please note what he says about it taking 4 to 7 days for the level of the drug to reach steady state in your blood.  It's also been described as taking 4 days for a dose change to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer to register in the brain.  

 

"Let’s start with one of the very basic concepts that we talk about a lot. Stability, or more appropriately, how long does it take to stabilize.  The idea of stability requires an essay all to itself so for right now I will just give a basic definition.

Stability is the state where symptoms are relatively the same from day to day without having any major swings for the better or worse. It is an established pattern that has been present for a good length of time. To establish a stable pattern requires at least a month and preferable two or three with no appreciable changes in the symptom pattern.  Stability is not the absence of symptoms or feeling good.

Stability is required before any changes can be made in the medication, because those changes will destabilize the system causing an increase in symptoms.  If the system is not stable in the first place the new destabilization compounds the original destabilization and makes matters worse.  There is one exception to this and that is tachyphylaxis or as it’s lovingly known “poopout”.  We’ll get into that later. If the system is in a stable condition the body can more easily make the changes needed to accommodate and adjust to the new situation.

 

When there is a Dose Change Event (anything that changes the amount, type, or timing of the medication) there are several things that must happen.  The first is the level of the medication in the blood needs to become steady state.  This means that there is a specific amount of the medication in the blood at all times. Medical research has shown that this will take a minimum of four days and could take up to a week.  This takes into account metabolic rates, half-lives and a number of other variables.  So right off the bat, every time we make a change there is a waiting period of four to seven days."

 

Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
21 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

Here's hoping, Snorky!

 

Here is what Brassmonkey has written about "stability."  Please note what he says about it taking 4 to 7 days for the level of the drug to reach steady state in your blood.  It's also been described as taking 4 days for a dose change to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer to register in the brain.  

 

"Let’s start with one of the very basic concepts that we talk about a lot. Stability, or more appropriately, how long does it take to stabilize.  The idea of stability requires an essay all to itself so for right now I will just give a basic definition.

Stability is the state where symptoms are relatively the same from day to day without having any major swings for the better or worse. It is an established pattern that has been present for a good length of time. To establish a stable pattern requires at least a month and preferable two or three with no appreciable changes in the symptom pattern.  Stability is not the absence of symptoms or feeling good.

Stability is required before any changes can be made in the medication, because those changes will destabilize the system causing an increase in symptoms.  If the system is not stable in the first place the new destabilization compounds the original destabilization and makes matters worse.  There is one exception to this and that is tachyphylaxis or as it’s lovingly known “poopout”.  We’ll get into that later. If the system is in a stable condition the body can more easily make the changes needed to accommodate and adjust to the new situation.

 

When there is a Dose Change Event (anything that changes the amount, type, or timing of the medication) there are several things that must happen.  The first is the level of the medication in the blood needs to become steady state.  This means that there is a specific amount of the medication in the blood at all times. Medical research has shown that this will take a minimum of four days and could take up to a week.  This takes into account metabolic rates, half-lives and a number of other variables.  So right off the bat, every time we make a change there is a waiting period of four to seven days."

 

Hi G

 

Thank you. V prompt, helpful and constructive as per usual. So, being Devil’s Advocate, “stability” in my case could include the v debilitating and terrifying psycho symptoms I was experiencing yesterday?  The 4-7 days (day 5 in my case) would then allow changes to be made without major impact?

 

I’m struggling to reconcile this doctrine with reinstatement in general. Ie go in at a lower dose of old med and use that to taper off from a v low base. Ie, if stability is so widely defined, it would b difficult if not impossible to tolerate for the requisite period before tapering off?

 

Probably got my analysis hopelessly wrong.

 

Thanks

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
1 hour ago, Snorky said:

“stability” in my case could include the v debilitating and terrifying psycho symptoms

 

I would say no..  Stability would mean symptoms are tolerable, not feeling "good" but not feeling as bad as you describe, a general "blah" state from day to day without big swings in symptoms.   

 

I would stand by my analysis of yesterday, that what you're experiencing is a combination of withdrawal and adverse reaction, with adverse reaction being the larger component.  

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
14 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

I would say no..  Stability would mean symptoms are tolerable, not feeling "good" but not feeling as bad as you describe, a general "blah" state from day to day without big swings in symptoms.   

 

I would stand by my analysis of yesterday, that what you're experiencing is a combination of withdrawal and adverse reaction, with adverse reaction being the larger component.  

Thanks again. Probably read the definition too loosely, emphasis on sameness of symptoms. Have to go to Doc again tomorrow to get med cert. (First week is self certified here)  Until yesterday, was adamant that coming off was no brainer. Have been a bit better today, so another week will provide flexibility to demonstrate either:

 

1. Adverse reaction continues leading to stop.

2. Adverse reaction abates to allow continuation.

 

Either way, have to aim to return to work next Monday.

 

Thanks

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus
9 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Have been a bit better today, so another week will provide flexibility to demonstrate either:

 

1. Adverse reaction continues leading to stop.

2. Adverse reaction abates to allow continuation.

Sounds good.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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17 hours ago, Gridley said:

Sounds good.

Hi

 

Couldn’t get to see Dic today, so have to go back tomorrow. However, having another massive relapse today. Return of the awful anguish and depression I had Friday and Saturday.  Going to stop tonight, tell Doc tomorrow. I’m terrified that this won’t alleviate these symptoms, and then will be in awful uncertain situation of:

 

a) not knowing whether it’s discontinuation or

b) relapse causing chemical imbalance 

 

Then playing Russian Roulette to deal with it. I was coping during CT period (just), even though there was awful neuro symptoms and some anguish. However, nothing like this. 

 

The other thing is the palpable feeling of inadequacy. Ie husband and son going to work and school respectively, and I’m stuck here.

 

Thanks again 

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

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