Kelly95: would love to hear success stories about Zyprexa withdrawal

[Kelly95]

Hi, I am Kelly, I am new here. I have been on zyprexa for 2 months at 1.25mg plus a 2 months taper that got me to 0.4mg. Everything went fine (except my sleep but still ok) until my last drop, since then I have feelings of pins and needles all over my body and a weird sensation that I believe is formication (I basically feel like there always is a hair brushing my nose or my face but there is nothing). All those symptoms are making me extremely anxious and depressed.

I am not seeing a lot of success story regarding zyprexa withdrawals and everything I read online is horrible.

Do you think those symptoms will go away? How should I continue from here?

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @Kelly95

 

It appears your last stretch of tapering was too fast and you now have withdrawal symptoms. If I were you, I'd put your Zyprexa dose back to 0.625mg and stabilize there for a couple of months or more. You can taper off more gradually later. See 

What is withdrawal syndrome? 
 
About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms 
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)
 

We have many people here tapering Zyprexa. In the Introductions forum, search for "zyprexa" or "olanzapine" to see their stories.

 

What is your sleep pattern now?

[Kelly95]

Thank you for your answer, I am currently doing well at 0.46mg. No more pins and needles and I sleep about 8 hours and wake up maybe once in the middle of the night. Before zyprexa I would also wake up once in the middle of the night so I think I am stabilizing.

[Altostrata]

If 0.46mg works, it works. You have received a warning from your nervous system about rate of taper. You may wish to stabilize here for a while before tapering more gradually. See Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

[Kelly95]

Update, I am now at 0.38mg for 5 days aleeady. Have had a strong headache (like pressure in my skull) for 3 days now. Of course its hard to go on with my day with this headache but its still manageable. Besides that everything is fine, sleep is still good.

Btw I changed the doses in my signature because I realized I calculated them wrong. So at the time of my first post I was at 0.41mg and not 0.46mg.

 

I hope this headache will pass soon.

Still debating at what dose I will do the jump.

[Kelly95]

So Migraine/headache is gone. But tonight I only slept 2 hours and its the first time since the start of my taper (that started 2 months ago) that I have trouble with my sleep. I am a bit discouraged but I will go on. I hope tonight will go better.

[Holly26]

Hi Kelly,

 

do you cut the tablets or do you have liquid?

 

Thank you

[Altostrata]

On 6/27/2022 at 1:02 AM, Kelly95 said:

So Migraine/headache is gone. But tonight I only slept 2 hours and its the first time since the start of my taper (that started 2 months ago) that I have trouble with my sleep. I am a bit discouraged but I will go on. I hope tonight will go better.

 

If I were you, I'd stop tapering and stay at the same dose for a while, let your nervous system settle down.

[hayduke]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

If I were you, I'd stop tapering and stay at the same dose for a while, let your nervous system settle down.

Can't stress this enough @Kelly95.  It is always tempting to go fast, but it will nearly always turn out to be more uncomfortable, disruptive and take you longer.

I've been off for nearly nine months now, off the back of several years taper.  My body and brain still have a lot of catching up to do.  Sadly, this is a long game if you want to walk clear of it at the far end.

You are on such a low dose, you won't have as far to go.  

But it's really important you just hold where you are for a fair while.  Even then, expect some ups and downs as your body takes its time to even out after the chopping and changing you've done.  Once that's all settled down for long enough to know, that's the sensible place to start a taper.  

Glad you found the site, cheers.

[Manny78]

Hi @Kelly95. I was wondering what taper method you use to wean off Zyprexa. My mom is on Zyprexa now. She was on 7,5mg and now she is at 7mg. I had to use 1 pill of  zyprexa 5mg tablet and half of it (2,5mgs) and then shave it a little bit to get 7mg. Wish you the best with your taper. I am tapering myself abilify down to 2,2ml. Finally I got abilify 1mg/1ml solution. I suffer akathisia.

Greetings, 

 

Manny

 

 

 

 

 

[Manny78]

On 6/28/2022 at 6:20 PM, Holly26 said:

Hi Kelly,

 

do you cut the tablets or do you have liquid?

 

Thank you

@Holly26,I heard there is no liquid for Zyprexa. One pharmacist told me. Maybe I am mistaken. 

[Kelly95]

so bad news... I went to fast in the taper of course and now I am having terrible insomnia, its been night 6 with terrible sleep or none at all. I am at 0.275mg and dont know what to do. Should I go back up? Should I hold even thought its unbearable? Will it even ever get better?

I have an appointment tomorrow with a psychiatrist to maybe switch pill but wont that just hide the insomnia behind another pill. I will have to take pills for the rest of my life for a stupid mistake.

 

@hayduke did you suffer from insomnia? What are your symptoms now?

 

@Holly26 @Manny78 We only have tablets where I live, I cut them and file them with a nail file and then weight them on a scale that gets to 0.001g

 

[ChessieCat]

If you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms from reducing the drug too quickly then taking a little bit more of that same drug might help.  I think it would be better to do this and NOT start or add a new drug.  If the psychiatrist suggests adding or changing your drug, please do your own research BEFORE you start taking it.

 

It is better to increase by a small amount than to risk taking too much.

 

Can you increase to 0.39mg?

 

The idea of increasing is to bring the withdrawal symptoms to a bearable level NOT to get rid of them completely.  Some members try to find the perfect dose and end up making things worse.

 

If you notice improvement during the first week then you would stay on that dose.  If you don't notice any improvement then after 1 week you could try increasing by a little bit more, eg to 40mg. 

 

You will need to be patient and try to stay calm as the drug builds up in your system.  When we panic we can make bad decisions.

 

SA encourages members to use non drug coping to get through difficult periods.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

 

[Altostrata]

@Kelly95 your body is telling you that you are tapering too fast. Please stop trying to push your taper. You are setting yourself up for a failed taper.

[Kelly95]

@Altostrata so what do you recommend I do? I need to sleep.

Should I change pill like my psychatrist will recommend me tomorrow?

[Altostrata]

 

[Kelly95]

So I am back to 0.33mg 3 days already but might go up a bit more. Sleep is kind of back (I wake up in the middle of the night but its tolerable). I do feel kind of lightheaded, maybe its brain fog. Sometimes I get a surge of anxiety. I might get more emotional than usual (I started crying yesterday because my zoom video wasnt working). Once I find a small dose I can live on, I will stay on it for a while and stop tapering for the moment. I need this break from tapering. The main reason I wanted off this drug besides the weight gain was because I want to get pregnant in the near future but I think that at such a small dose it wont affect the pregnancy. At least I hope.

Still havent spoken to the new psychatrist because of the zoom issue so will let u know.

[Altostrata]

@Kelly95 we urge you to stop going up and down in your dose. You can expect to feel odd or lightheaded if you keep going up and down in dosage. You have been tapering too fast. You're making too many dosage changes. If I were you, I'd let my system settle down for a while at 0.33mg. It might take some time, more than a few days.

[Ariel]

Hi @Kelly95

Belated welcome to SA. Glad you found the site. 

Looks like you've already received plenty of sound advice from our excellent moderators. 

 

2 hours ago, Kelly95 said:

The main reason I wanted off this drug besides the weight gain was because I want to get pregnant in the near future but I think that at such a small dose it wont affect the pregnancy. At least I hope.

 

You might be interested in these help topics:

(Note: some of these posts refer to SSRIs specifically, but one might reasonably extrapolate probable similarities to any other psychotropic drugs, incl. Zyprexa/olanzapine.)

 

From personal experience I can share that tapering too fast or going cold turkey (CT) is not worth it. 

 

That's what happened in my case and I've been suffering protracted withdrawal (PWS) ever since, 4.5 years and counting. I am not functional in daily life and largely disabled due to PWS. 

On the surface it may seem like a slow taper will take too long, but often the people who taper slowly according to SA guidelines are able to function and lead more or less normal lives along the way; and they often reach the "finish line" at the same time or sooner than people who have fast-tapered or CTed and end up getting stuck in protracted withdrawal for many years. Like me.

 

I wouldn't wish for you to experience what I have been and am still going through. 

 

Here is a topic about that, I recommend reading the essay in its entirety, and definitely this chapter:

 

Best of luck to you on your continuous healing journey,

In solidarity and support,

A.

 

[Kelly95]

@Altostrata you are completely right, I will stay on 0.33mg for the moment.

@Ariel I am extremely sad to read all these. My life will not be complete without children and I feel like my hands are tied.

 

My new psychiatrist told me that even on this small dose of zyprexa its better for me to not get pregnant but then told me to switch it to seroquel+prozac and that those are fine. She was very nice and understanding but I think that I will stay on zyprexa for the moment.

[Ariel]

@Kelly95

May I ask, what was it that led to your starting to take psych drugs in February? 

Was that the first time you were ever prescribed and took psych drugs?

What are the issues you were attempting to address via psych drugs?

 

47 minutes ago, Kelly95 said:

My new psychiatrist told me that even on this small dose of zyprexa its better for me to not get pregnant but then told me to switch it to seroquel+prozac and that those are fine. She was very nice and understanding but I think that I will stay on zyprexa for the moment.

 

This is very typical of psychiatrists in general. They're taught to prescribe psych drugs so that's what they do. Their response to one psych drug not working is often to prescribe another two. When really it's the psych drugs themselves causing the main problems. That's how many people, myself included, get caught riding the drug carousel. Psychiatrists and other doctors are not taught proper deprescribing protocol, so they just prescribe prescribe prescribe. It is the patients, our bodies and our lives, that bear the long-term detrimental consequences and iatrogenic harm.

 

The good news is that you are on a relatively small dose of olanzapine. This is encouraging. 

Also, if this is your first and only foray into psych drugs (as per your drug signature), that is also potentially in your favor.

(The longer one has been on psych drugs, the more different kinds, the more times one has gone on and off, all of those many changes over many years can cause cumulative stress on our bodies and make it that much harder to come off of them.) 

 

I support your decision to stick with zyprexa and not change drugs or introduce anything new. Well done. 

I'm glad you're heeding Altostrata's advice to hold at the current dose. 

 

All things considered, I see basis for a lot of hope in your situation. 

I trust it is entirely possible for you to find your way through this and make it out the other end drug-free.

 

I can't speak to the pregnancy aspect. I don't know anything about you or your life or what the future may hold.

What I can say is that life off of drugs and out of WD is remarkably different and better than drugged/WD existence. I have only had occasional glimpses but they have been incredible. 

Drug-free, WD-free reality offers a whole other perspective, and it's worth waiting/working for. 

 

In solidarity and support,

A. 

 

 

 

[Kelly95]

@Ariel thank you for those kind and encouraging words.

 

i was put on zyprexa for depression and anxiety. When I got to the psychiatrists office I was having a panic attack and he probably though I was having a psychotic episode and prescribed me this. I didnt even check what I was given and just took it because my anxiety was through the roof and I just wanted it to stop. My anxiety was always health related. 

 

But now my anxiety is only about zyprexa and WD.

[Ariel]

@Kelly95

 

1 hour ago, Kelly95 said:

i was put on zyprexa for depression and anxiety. When I got to the psychiatrists office I was having a panic attack and he probably though I was having a psychotic episode and prescribed me this. I didnt even check what I was given and just took it because my anxiety was through the roof and I just wanted it to stop. My anxiety was always health related. 

 

But now my anxiety is only about zyprexa and WD.

 

I think pretty much anyone who goes to see a psychiatrist will leave there with a diagnosis or a prescription or both. That's what psychiatry does, it's what psychiatrists are trained to do. 

In regards to the people around me, e.g. my family, who have never received psych diagnoses or been put on meds, it's really only because they've never been to see a psychiatrist. 

Meanwhile I was sent to the loony bin as a minor -> let the games begin! It's not because I am crazy or crazier than my parents, for example, it's just because they were never committed. 

(By the way, I was put on Zyprexa once, too, and at a much higher dose than you (not to brag, haha). This was many years ago and I did come off of it completely. That was not the end of the drug carousel for me, but you may consider me a Zyprexa survivor.)

 

The reason I'm saying this is to emphasize that

 

a) It's not your fault. It's a reasonable default expectation to be able to trust one's doctor and trust that legal prescription medication as recommended by a medical authority is not harmful. Unfortunately we learn the hard way that the system is broken, psychiatry is bunk, and psych drugs are problematic and risky. Once we learn that through painful experience we are free and empowered to act differently and make different choices moving forward. 

 

b) There are many ways to go other than psychiatry seeking help with symptoms of anxiety and depression. I don't know what resources are available to you where you live, and I don't know what else you've already tried, but the good news is that there are numerous highly effective behavioral and lifestyle interventions (e.g. diet, exercise, stress management techniques, sleep hygiene, social strategies, etc. etc.) relevant to managing difficulties with anxiety and depression. 

 

Do you have access to any sort of non-drug, non-psychiatric, therapeutic counseling?

Preferably trauma-informed, process-oriented, mindfulness-based, somatically integrated approaches (those are just my preferences and personal recommendations). 

Many members report that cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) has been helpful to them. I am partial to Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT), will link to topic on this below. 

Of course it's always crucial to find a qualified practitioner who is a good match for us, regardless of which modality is in play. 

 

You may already be familiar with all this. Feel free to disregard anything you deem superfluous.

There are a lot of help topics on SA all about non-drug coping techniques for how to manage symptoms such as anxiety and depression, whether or not they are related to WD. 

WD can make everything feel more intense, but regardless of that, many members find it helpful to invest time and energy into developing life skills toolkits for how to handle the toughest challenges and get through stressful periods. WD gives us an opportunity to practice and implement various strategies, and once we learn them they will be with us for the rest of our lives, long after we are drug-free. 

 

Here are some help topics to get you started, if you're curious: 

(Note: I know this is a lot of links! I don't mean to overwhelm you with information. You can just look through them if/when you feel up to it. They're in your thread now and you'll be able to go back and find them again easily should you wish to read or revisit them at a later date.)

 

[Ariel]

@Kelly95

 

You can do a search for "zyprexa" in the Recovery forum to find success stories:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=zyprexa&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=28

 

Here are a select few:

 

Remember, a lot of us have dealt with polypharmacy for decades, which may influence recovery duration. 

You have only ever taken this one drug, at a relatively low dose, and not for very long. 

It's impossible to predict how long it will take to heal, but just keep in mind that you have avoided several of the worst pitfalls such as polydrugging for years at a time. 

The odds are in your favor! 

[JandD]

Hi Kelly95 - My wife is also currently doing an Olanzapine reduction.
NAC seems to be helping her relatively well and she has also recently started using a weight blanket at night.
Sounds strange but actually seems to have a positive impact on her mood (less anxiety) and sleep.
Your starting point is very good with this low dosage. Be patient and don't reduce too quickly.
All the best! 

[ChessieCat]

6 hours ago, JandD said:

she has also recently started using a weight blanket at night.
Sounds strange but actually seems to have a positive impact on her mood (less anxiety) and sleep.

 

I have heard many good reports about weighted blankets and they are used for various things, eg restless legs, Ehlers Danlos Syndrome EDS, autism.

[hayduke]

18 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

I have heard many good reports about weighted blankets and they are used for various things, eg restless legs, Ehlers Danlos Syndrome EDS, autism.

I got a good deal on one recently to help with anxiety after a retraumatising event.  Helped a lot till I was able to get to therapy (EMDR for recent events).

 

On 7/19/2022 at 9:01 PM, Kelly95 said:

@hayduke did you suffer from insomnia? What are your symptoms now?

Yes, at times.  I invariably took it as a signal to hold until it passed.

At the very low levels (and I'd say your dosage is in that realm) you want to tread extra carefully, because 'normal' sleep patterns off the drug are quite different to sedated (or otherwise drug affected) sleep your body would now be used to.  I took longer holds to acclimatise.  There were multiple stages of this, I think up around 1.25mg I had a round of this earlier too.  There is a graph of my taper in my signature.

I started waking early as soon as I went to zero, which is reasonable of course, and adapted by learning to turn in early.  I sleep less than when on the drug, but generally an adequate amount around 6-8hrs.  I don't feel like I need as much sleep as I did when I was on it, either.

At around nine months out, nervous system still more sensitive to alcohol etc, but it's gradually easing.  Definitely not back at my body's natural equilibrium yet, but it's improving.  The state of the world in these years - anthropocene "natural" disasters, low quality govts & welfare, pandemic etc - are definitely a brake on my Complex PTSD healing, but again it's still all improving.
 

[Kelly95]

@JandD I hope her taper is going well. I will definitely look into the weighted blanket. Since I am back at 0.33mg I do sleep but I wake up many times (about 3-4 times) and sometimes wake up early. Its jusy hard to see my husband sleeping because we used to sleep in together 🥲. If I try to sleep more I just get nightmarish vivid dreams.

 

I decided to stay on this dose for a relatively long time so I will look into having pills made on my dose. Not even sure its possible where I live. But I realised that the whole process of weighting and shaving the pill and struggling with my scale is just adding to the stress.

[ChessieCat]

weighted-blankets-bed-tents-for-restlessness-akathisia-insomnia-and-anxiety

 

Several years ago they were very expensive to buy and here in Australia not readily available, so I made one for my son in law.  My daughter managed to source the plastic beads and they were quite dear.  The blanket wasn't hard to make but it did take some patience.

 

There are different weights so do some research on this.

 

Hopefully you won't have any difficulty in finding one to buy.

 

[hayduke]

14 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Several years ago they were very expensive to buy and here in Australia not readily available

 

I wouldn't normally mention a shop brand, but I got a very good deal from spot light while they were on sale.  Wasn't the colour I wanted - don't care.  Was well under $100 down from the ouchy $250 I had window shopped before.

[Kelly95]

Would love some advice. I am now one week back on 0.33mg. I dont feel the best to be honest. My sleep sucks, I manage to fall asleep but then after about 5 hours of broken sleep I get those horrible vivid dreams. Then I wake up depressed and anxious as hell and I dont feel like doing anhthing the whole day. I feel capable of doing things (even with the brain fog) but just dont feel like it. I have all my emotions, I can be happy and sad. I have amazing people around me helping go through this. But today I dont feel strong.

 

Anyway, I was wondering if I should keep trying on this dose ans push through or go back up a bit?

From your experiences what do you recommend?

[Ariel]

@Kelly95

 

55 minutes ago, Kelly95 said:

Would love some advice. I am now one week back on 0.33mg. I dont feel the best to be honest. My sleep sucks, I manage to fall asleep but then after about 5 hours of broken sleep I get those horrible vivid dreams. Then I wake up depressed and anxious as hell and I dont feel like doing anhthing the whole day. I feel capable of doing things (even with the brain fog) but just dont feel like it. I have all my emotions, I can be happy and sad. I have amazing people around me helping go through this. But today I dont feel strong.

 

Anyway, I was wondering if I should keep trying on this dose ans push through or go back up a bit?

From your experiences what do you recommend?

 

A reminder of Altostrata's advice from 4 days ago: 

 

On 7/21/2022 at 10:39 AM, Altostrata said:

we urge you to stop going up and down in your dose. You can expect to feel odd or lightheaded if you keep going up and down in dosage. You have been tapering too fast. You're making too many dosage changes. If I were you, I'd let my system settle down for a while at 0.33mg. It might take some time, more than a few days.

 

I can't speak for Altostrata, but the way that I read this, the suggestion is to give the current dose of 0.33mg a good, long hold -- which could mean weeks or possibly months, depending. 

 

Based on your description it sounds like you are experiencing mild to moderate withdrawal symptoms, which indicates that your system is destabilized.

It seems to me that it would make sense to avoid further dosage changes at this time, as dosage changes are destabilizing.  

You might instead help your system towards stability by holding at your current dose. 

 

In solidarity and support,

A. 

 

[JandD]

Dear Kelly,
 

So far we have no experience on increasing a dose after a to fast tapering. In this forum there are users who have many times more experience and information than my wife and me.
 

I still want to write you a little bit what I would do if I were in your place (no medical advice):

• No more big fluctuations in the dose for the time being. Hold this dose for maybe two weeks and give yourself and your nervous system more time to adjust and heal. 
• The Olanzapine level in your body is made up of the dosages of the last (about) 5.3 days. This means that you have only had a stable level for 1-2 days.
• The healing process takes place in waves or with fluctuations. Sometimes you feel a little better, sometimes a little worse.
• You are on such a low dose of olanzapine, the side effects will be relatively minor.
• Reduce much more slowly after that. The recommendation here is 10% per month based on the previous dose. You have reduced too quickly for you.
• Keep a diary of the dose, sleep, mental/physical symptoms, daily routine. Do not reduce the dose further, but keep it stable if you notice a deterioration.
• Especially at low doses, the reduction is more difficult (or has to be done very carefully) because the proportion of receptors affected is larger (see picture / attachement below).
• Make sure you take the exact dose. With a scale it is very difficult in this low range. The liquid method with a pipette is best here.
• Maybe make smaller tapering steps (microtaper)
• Support your body / mind with other things: Sport / exercise / freshly squeezed juices, meditation or (a few) food supplements such as magnesium, fish oil or, as in our case, NAC.
   

Just have a little more patience. Just follow the recommendations here in the forum. The grass does not grow faster if you pull on it ;-)
JanD

 

 

[ChessieCat]

SA strongly encourages members to learn and use:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

[JandD]

Hi Kelly95,

Two more things I've been thinking about:
 

1) I think your stabilisation period for you should be longer than I wrote in my first post. Better a month or longer.

 

2) You wrote that you weigh the tablets with a scale. I know myself how difficult / inaccurate this can be. I have two scales to exclude measuring errors as much as possible. The scales also show 0.000 g. However, these are scales that cost around 50 USD and do not measure very accurately. Scales that weigh more accurately in this range cost around 600 USD. 
 

A much more accurate method is the liquid method. Dissolve a 2.5mg OL tablet in 100ml of warm water and then remove as much water with a pipette until the desired dosage is reached. Here, 1ml = 0.025mg active ingredient. 13.2ml = 0.33mg active ingredient. So reduce 86.8ml from 100ml and drink the rest.

Note: It is recommended to make a slow change from solid tablets to a liquid solution (in case your body does not absorb the liquid solution so well). So don't make an immediate 100% switch from solid to liquid, but first 75% solid and 25% liquid, if you tolerate it well after a while 50% and 50%, then 25% solid and 75% liquid and then when it is sure that you tolerate it 100% liquid.
 

Please note: This is not medical advice, only the way I or my wife would go. Perhaps your partner/friends/family can also support you in this "dosing process".
 

I think you have received very good reports of experiences here. All the best and be patient! 
JandD

[Kelly95]

I need advice. Been now on 0.33mg for about 10 days. I have 0 day-time symptoms but my sleep sucks! I feel like its only getting worse by the day. I dont know how long I can hold on with so few hours of sleep. 

What should I do?