Lori301: tapering off SSRIs

[Lori301]

Medication HIstory:

• Prozac 1993 to 2016 for anxiety and depression (actually have Complex PTSD)
• Switched to Celexa in 2016 and took until Feb 2022
• Switched to Lexapro in Feb 2022 then Zoloft in June. Switches were due to bad anxiety and now tapering off because SSRIs seem to be causing anxiety rather than reducing it.  
• At 25 mg Zoloft presently for 3 weeks. Symptoms include nausea, loss of appetite, stomach ache, anxiety. 
• Also taking Lorazepam 1 mg and Zolpidem 10 mg.  Just started Accel for nausea and it's helping. 

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  What is your goal for coming to this site?  Are you interested in getting off of your psychiatric drugs?  

 

May I ask why you switched from Prozac to Celexa, and then from Celexa to Lexapro?  

On 8/7/2022 at 8:23 AM, Lori301 said:

• Switched to Lexapro in Feb 2022 then Zoloft in June. Switches were due to bad anxiety and now tapering off because SSRIs seem to be causing anxiety rather than reducing it.  
• At 25 mg Zoloft presently for 3 weeks.

If you switched to Zoloft in June, then you've been on it for longer than 3 weeks.  What dose were you on prior to being on the 25 mg dose?  

 

Can you please give us specific information in your signature about your drug history for all drugs you are on and have been on, especially for the past 18-24 months?  It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise vertical list (no symptoms), only drug names, specific dates, include the day (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day) and dosages of each medication decrease or increase.  Use this example:

 

Lexapro: 2022: Mar 15 - 5 mg, Apr 20 - 4.5 mg, May 31 - 4.1 mg

Trazodone: 2022: early April - 150 mg, May 15, stopped, 0.

Xanax: 2022: 0.5 mg as needed, twice per week before bed

Etcetera

 

Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

 

 

[Lori301]

OK, I've created a signature with my medication history as best as I can recall.  These past 4 months or so have been a blur.  

 

I'm moving toward tapering off all psychiatric medications which is why I'm here -- to get as much info as I can -- but my GP thinks I should consider trying Zoloft again just going much more slowly because it is the SSRI that has had the most success for PTSD apparently (I suffer from Complex PTSD). I personally suspect the anxiety I'm having may be caused by a developing intolerance to SSRIs rather than a trauma related issue. (I know you can't comment on that, I'm just adding context.)    

 

So if/when I do decide to taper off everything I will post as such and ask for any guidance you can give about doing so. For now I just started a blood pressure medication to see if that will bring down my BP and then we'll (my GP and I) will go from there. 

 

It's so good to know I'm not alone in this 'battle', thanks for all the info and support you provide to people dealing with this.  

 

 

[getofflex]

You said "2016 to Jan 2022 citalopram 30 mg, taper fluoxetine to 10 mg"

 

This is confusing, did you bridge from citalopram to fluoxetine?  Are you still on fluoxetine 10 mg?  If no, please indicate you stopped in your drug signature box. 

 

You said "Feb to Mar 2022 taper from 40 mg citalopram to 10 mg". 

 

Are you still on 10 mg of citalopram? If not, please indicate in drug signature box. 

 

You said "March 8 escitalopram 20 mg, April – May taper off escitalopram 20 mg to 10 to .5". 

 

Are you still taking 0.5 mg escitalopram?  Please indicate in signature.  

 

I see you are still on 25 mg Zoloft.  

 

It would really help if you could clarify which drugs you are still on, and the doses.  At the end of your drug sig, put "Currently Taking", the drug names and doses.  Thank you.  

Edited August 12, 2022 by getofflex

[getofflex]

On 8/11/2022 at 8:45 AM, Lori301 said:

but my GP thinks I should consider trying Zoloft again

But your drug signature indicates you are currently taking Zoloft 25 mg.  ????  Please clarify.  Just my 2 cents worth, all these drugs do is numb the emotional pain, they don't really get at the root of the problem.  I too, have CPTSD, and that is how it was for me.  And, doctors will almost always just put their patients on drugs, that is how they are trained.  Please read these links: 

 

Chemical Imbalance is a Myth

 

Robert Whitaker, author Anatomy of an Epidemic video

 

Are you currently having any symptoms from tapering the recent drugs?  If so, please wait until these symptoms subside before doing any more tapering.  

 

This link will help you to know which drug to taper first.  

 

Taking Multiple Psych Drugs, Which to Taper First

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by getofflex

[Lori301]

I adjusted my list of meds so hopefully it is clear now.  I am on 25 mg zoloft, no fluoxetine escitalopram or citalopram.

 

My GP and I are trying to decide whether to taper off Zoloft entirely or try increasing it (because it is the SSRI that helps with PTSS the most apparently), but this time much more slowly.  I'm worried about trying any more of the Zoloft, but just as worried about coming off it which is one reason I am here - to read about how others fared without SSRIs. As you probably know, if you have Complex PTSD it signals to GPs and other medical/mental health professionals that you need to be medicated. I thought as much myself and am now questioning that. 

 

Thank you so much for all the info, hopefully it will help me make a decision. No SSRI seems to be reducing the anxiety I've had steadily since Dec- Jan and I've come to believe the SSRI may actually be causing or exacerbating it.  I also just read this morning about autoimmune problems causing anxiety. My anxiety did seem to come out of the blue and is not settling/reducing so perhaps this could be the problem I don't know - it just makes the point it's not always a psychological basis. Anyway, the benos and Zolpidem are the only thing that help me tamp down the anxiety at all.  Otherwise I am laying on the bed just trying to survive it. I am worn out and scared, know I have to get off the benzos and Zolpidem but don't quite know what to do.  

 

In terms of symptoms from tapering I haven't many because as I was tapering one SSRI I was increasing another.  I did have a lot of nausea, loss of appetite and some sweating with the Zoloft taper but that has more or less subsided now that I have been at 25 mg for a few weeks.  

 

 

[getofflex]

Thanks for clarifying.  I take it, according to your drug signature, you are still on the Accel, and:

 

"2018 to present gabapentin 200 mg

Jan 2022 to present zolpidem – 10 mg

Jan to present lorazepam 1 mg or clonazepam .25 to .50 mg"

 

Is this correct?

 

On 8/13/2022 at 8:27 AM, Lori301 said:

My GP and I are trying to decide whether to taper off Zoloft entirely or try increasing it (because it is the SSRI that helps with PTSS the most apparently), but this time much more slowly.  I'm worried about trying any more of the Zoloft, but just as worried about coming off it which is one reason I am here - to read about how others fared without SSRIs. As you probably know, if you have Complex PTSD it signals to GPs and other medical/mental health professionals that you need to be medicated. I thought as much myself and am now questioning that.

I would urge you to please read the book by Robert Whitaker called "The Anatomy of an Epidemic".  He goes into detail explaining how these drugs have been marketed, and tested, and all the corruption therein.  Yes, you are correct, the health care professionals want to drug any and all emotional and mental distress, which we at this site feel is inappropriate.  Drug companies are making big bucks on this.  

 

Just my 2 cents worth, for whatever it is worth:  the antidepressants don't cure PTSD, they just cover up the emotional pain of the PTSD.  I also have CPTSD, and for me personally, it was like taking a pain killer to cover up the pain of cancer.  The cancer was still there, but I just wasn't as aware of it. It's up to you to decide if this applies to you or not.  And, here is a video by Robert Whitaker about how in the long term, the SSRI drugs may actually worsen depresssion.  

 

Robert Whitaker, author Anatomy of an Epidemic video

 

Chemical Imbalance is a Myth

 

Also, please read this story by Shep, who successfully has come off many drugs.  This is a quote for her story, and I've had the same experience of psychiatry that she has had. 

 

On 5/25/2020 at 9:48 AM, Shep said:

And so I left psychiatry — a dark cave of drug dependency, incarceration, deception, violence, mystification, and social control. The empty shadows on the walls that message this non-reality based belief system of mythical “mind diseases” fade out and a beautiful new reality unfolds before me. 

 

Shep's Success: Leaving Plato's Cave

 

You have been tapering the Zoloft much faster than what we suggest here on this site.  I believe that if you taper it very slowly, as we suggest, you can do so with minimal symptoms.  

 

On 8/13/2022 at 8:27 AM, Lori301 said:

No SSRI seems to be reducing the anxiety I've had steadily since Dec- Jan and I've come to believe the SSRI may actually be causing or exacerbating it. 

This is very common.  It sounds as though you may already be developing an adverse reaction to the drug, because your brain is fighting the drug.  Increasing your Zoloft dose will just exacerbate this problem.  

 

On 8/13/2022 at 8:27 AM, Lori301 said:

Otherwise I am laying on the bed just trying to survive it. I am worn out and scared, know I have to get off the benzos and Zolpidem but don't quite know what to do.  

Ultimately, to get rid of the anxiety, my suggestion to you would be to very cautiously and slowly taper off of the Zoloft first, and then worry about the benzos and zolpidem later.  SSRI's, which Zoloft is, are activating drugs, and is more likely to be causing you anxiety rather than the benzos and zolpidem, which tend to be sedating.  When people are on several drugs, we suggest they taper the activating drugs first, to preserve sleep. 

 

Multiple Psych Drugs - Which to Taper First?

 

Please let us know what you decide to do.  We will walk you though any tapering you do in the future. 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by getofflex

[Lori301]

I am still on the Accel as I still have a lot of nausea and not much appetite which started when I changed to Zoloft and it hasn't gone away. It is less than what it was but still a problem.  Unfortunately I can't take Gravol because it makes me agitated. 

 

I'm also taking lorazepam 1 - 1.5 mg because my anxiety is still so high and constant, and Zolpidem 10 mg.  And I do take 200 mg Gabapentin for Restless Legs Syndrome. 

 

I have decided I will tell my GP today that I am going to taper off the SSRI and that I want to go very slowly so I can reduce withdrawal.  She's very supportive so I think she will be fine with how I want to do this.  I see the wisdom in doing things this way and will talk with her about this as well.  "Ultimately, to get rid of the anxiety, my suggestion to you would be to very cautiously and slowly taper off of the Zoloft first, and then worry about the benzos and zolpidem later.  SSRI's, which Zoloft is, are activating drugs, and is more likely to be causing you anxiety rather than the benzos and zolpidem, which tend to be sedating.  When people are on several drugs, we suggest they taper the activating drugs first, to preserve sleep."

 

So to start I have Zoloft in capsule form which means I need to get it in liquid form if I can or buy a good scale. And if you can point me to a good taper template and anything else that helped you about getting prepared and going (I will read through all the links above),it would be much appreciated!  So very glad I found this forum!!!

[getofflex]

On 8/16/2022 at 9:35 AM, Lori301 said:

am still on the Accel

This needs to be added to your signature box, with dates and dosage.  

 

On 8/16/2022 at 9:35 AM, Lori301 said:

I have decided I will tell my GP today that I am going to taper off the SSRI and that I want to go very slowly so I can reduce withdrawal. 

This sounds like a prudent plan. 

 

If you are currently on Zoloft 25 mg, then when you reduce, your new dose would be 90% of 25.  Multiply 25 times 0.9, and you get 22.5 mg.  This is a 10% reduction.  Your reduction after that would be a 10% reduction from 22.5 mg, or 22.5 times .9 equals 20.25 mg.  And so on.  

 

Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Tapering is best done extremely slowly, and we generally taper by 10% of the current dose no more than once every 4 weeks, so that the reduction becomes exponentially smaller.

 

 Why Taper by 10% of my Dosage  

 

Tips for Tapering Zoloft

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms: 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Stability is really important when we are tapering off psych meds.  Please read the link about stability:

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

I urge you to take your time while tapering, and I would follow the approach of listening to my body to know when is the time to do a reduction, rather than just going by the calendar.  Wait until you feel stable for a couple of weeks before you do a further reduction.  Good luck! 

Edited August 17, 2022 by getofflex

[Lori301]

My GP agreed to tapering off the 25 mg of Zoloft I am taking and arranged for liquid version to be compounded for me.  I picked it up today and the directions say to start taking 4 mls (20 mg) per day for 14 days, then 3 mls (15 mg) for 14 days, then 10, then 5 and finish.  

 

I am going to have to speak with her about the 10% approach for four weeks and see if she will go for that.  The main problem I see is her letting me stay on the Lorazepam and Zolpidem for that amount of time. We had agreed to taper of the SSRI, then the benzo and finally the sleeping pill but that is a very long time to be on those.

 

I'm not sure how this is going to fall out but at least I am getting my ducks in a row.  

[Lori301]

I think I'll have to go back into the disposing pharmacy as I'm not certain I know how to do the math to get the correct amount of liquid when I reduce the dose each time. First though I have to get the OK from my GP to go slower because this will mean staying on the lorazepam and zolpidem - not sure she will go for that over a long period of time.

 

Getting off of this medication is not an easy thing! 

[getofflex]

On 8/19/2022 at 6:32 PM, Lori301 said:

My GP agreed to tapering off the 25 mg of Zoloft I am taking and arranged for liquid version to be compounded for me.  I picked it up today and the directions say to start taking 4 mls (20 mg) per day for 14 days, then 3 mls (15 mg) for 14 days, then 10, then 5 and finish.  

This is faster than the 10% exponential reduction that we suggest here.  You are putting yourself at risk of withdrawal and destabilization doing it this way.  People come in here all the time very sick for many months because of doing it like this.  Please find a way to convince your doctor, or else find a different doctor.  Please see this thread for printable resources you can give her/him. 

 

How to Talk to Your Doctor About Tapering and Withdrawal

 

14 hours ago, Lori301 said:

I think I'll have to go back into the disposing pharmacy as I'm not certain I know how to do the math to get the correct amount of liquid when I reduce the dose each time

The main thing you need to find out, is how many milligrams of active ingredient (magi) of the drug are in 1 milliliters of the liquid.  Then, we can go from there.  

[Lori301]

So I just talked to the pharmacy and the strength is 5 mgs per milliliter. 

 

I have an appointment to talk with my GP tomorrow so will discuss tapering more slowly. I don't know how she will feel about the benzo (Lorazepam 1 mg) and sleeping pill (Zolpidem 10 mg) I am on and extending those for a much longer period of time.  She did say I could go slower but I'm not sure what she will think about going to 10% because of the benzo and sleeping pill as I mentioned. I guess I'll just have to see. I am sending her two of the resources from here about slower tapering ahead of our phone call. 

[Faure]

You might also like to show the Royal College of Psychiatrists’ (UK) new advice on stopping ADs. They advocate the 10% method and I believe Alto (the owner of this site) fed into this guidance. 

[Lori301]

Tks Faure, I did send that one along to her.  

 

I have to ask, what is a brass monkey slide?

[Faure]

Hi @Lori301, here is a link to info about the BrassMonkey Slide. In brief, it takes the 10% 4 weekly taper recommended here and makes it more gentle. Instead of an abrupt 10% drop every 4 weeks the drops are done at 2.5% a week for 4 weeks (adding up to the 10%)  followed by a 2 week hold. I am having great success with this method. My WD symptoms have been mild and short lived and I have been able to get on with life, which improves with each 6 week cycle. For me improvement has been:

 

• far fewer ups and downs than when on the full dose, so I’m way more steady
• I’m more able to cope with surprises life throws at me
• most importantly my energy levels have been very slowly and steadily improving.

 

I highly recommend this method. Getting off these pills safely takes a long time (5 years for me, I’m about 15 months in) but it is well worth doing to avoid WD effects that stop me working & functioning. I see it as an investment in the rest of my life as I think I was kindled by years of being on / off ADs.
 

How did you get on with the doctor?

[Lori301]

Tks so much for this info Faure.  I talked with my GP and she is going to support the 10% taper so I'm quite happy needless to say. She also has prescribed the liquid compound which makes it easier to deal with tapering. 

 

One of the reasons I'm going off SSRIs is constant anxiety that started in Jan and only got worse after several changes of doses and types of SSRI.   I know you said your energy levels are coming up but I wondered about your anxiety.  One (big) fear I have is what if as I taper the anxiety doesn't decrease?  

[Lori301]

I'm not quite sure where to put this but I wanted to ask other members what made them decide to taper off their AD?  For me it was/is really bad anxiety that every SSRI I have tried of late does nothing to help and I have come to suspect is actually causing the anxiety. It's like my brain and body have become intolerant after 30 years on Prozac, Celexa, Lexapro then Zoloft. 

 

Has anyone experienced this or read about SSRIs causing anxiety rather than helping it? I guess the elephant in the room is is it the medication or my psychological issues?  I feel like this isn't my history of trauma rearing up, it truly feels like it's the meds but I would feel so much better/confident if I knew others had the same issue.  GP, therapists, psychiatrists seem to want to dive into the psychological issues without considering the physiological/neurological impact these drugs have so I want to go in strong when dealing with them. 

 

(If there is somewhere else that would be better to post this please let me know, I have gotten the full picture of this forum yet.)

[Lori301]

SSRI Causing Anxiety?

 

I'm curious why others here made the decision to stop their AD.  For me it was that I had began having anxiety24/7 starting in Jan 2022 on Celexa 30 mg.  I was bumped up to 40 mg, nothing changed, tried two other SSRIs and still have the anxiety (and now depression). 

 

I made the decision to taper off the SSRI I'm on (Zoloft) but I wonder if I made the best decision.  Nothing was working except benzos so actually it seemed like the only decision I could make but I can't help wondering if anyone else has had the same experience. I was on SSRIs for almost 30 years then suddenly this - why?   

 

Does anyone know of any articles/info about this?  

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[Lori301]

10% Taper over 4 wks - think I have it correct.  Next going to try calculating the Brass Monkey Slide

Date	Starting Dose (MG)	10% Drop in Dose		From – To (4 wks)	Comments
		mg	ml
2022
13 Aug	25	22.5	4.5	14 Aug - 10 Sep
11 Sep	22.5	20.3	4.1	11 Sep – Oct 8
9 Oct	20.3	18.2	3.6	9 Oct – 5 Nov
8 Nov	18.3	16.4	3.3	6 Nov – 3 Dec
4 Dec	16.5	14.7	2.9	4 – 31 Dec
2023
01 Jan	14.7	13.3	2.7	1 – 28 Jan
29 Jan	13.3	12	2.4	29 Jan - 25 Feb
26 Feb	12	10.8	2.2	26 Feb – 25 Mar
26 Mar	10.8	9.7	2	26 Mar – 22 Apr
23 Apr	10	8.7	1.7	23 Apr – 20 May

[ChessieCat]

7 hours ago, Lori301 said:

SSRI Causing Anxiety?

 

I'm curious why others here made the decision to stop their AD.  For me it was that I had began having anxiety24/7 starting in Jan 2022 on Celexa 30 mg.  I was bumped up to 40 mg, nothing changed, tried two other SSRIs and still have the anxiety (and now depression). 

 

I made the decision to taper off the SSRI I'm on (Zoloft) but I wonder if I made the best decision.  Nothing was working except benzos so actually it seemed like the only decision I could make but I can't help wondering if anyone else has had the same experience. I was on SSRIs for almost 30 years then suddenly this - why?   

 

Does anyone know of any articles/info about this?  

 

 

Generally benzos are sedating, antidepressants are activating.  See:

 

  

On 5/5/2012 at 4:34 AM, Altostrata said:

Psychiatric drugs fall into two general categories relative to their effects:

 

Accelerators: Antidepressants and ADHD drugs (most are amphetamine analogs) tend to be activating drugs, causing jitteriness, anxiety, or sleeplessness.

 

Brakes: Benzodiazepines, the "Z" drugs for sleep, anticonvulsants (such as lamotrigine), Lyrica, gabapentin (Neurontin), and antipsychotics tend to be sedating "CNS depressant" drugs, causing drowsiness, sluggishness, or dopiness.

 

(This is not a definite rule -- some people find antidepressants and even amphetamine analogs sedating.  Drug history will identify the drug effect for the individual.)

 

 

 

[Faure]

@Lori301 You don’t need to make all the calculations yourself unless you want to, BrassMonkey has a website that does it for you ☺️
 

As for why people stop ADs I think they usually wake up to the fact that they are actually bad for you, especially in the long term. People experience them ‘pooping out’ (stopping working), causing paradoxical effects - so making you anxious when they are supposed to do the opposite, making you too tired to live life the way you want to (me)…I also took an accidental double dose and 3 weeks later had a huge emotional crash which was the trigger for me to stop. Within a couple of months of that experience I started my BrassMonkey slide. It was terrifying to be on something that made me feel that way. I’d always intended to come off after a couple of years of stability but I brought it forward. I didn’t want to live my life medicated and not able to do things I could do before because of the fatigue. 

 

There are a few books out about them:

• Anatomy of an Epidemic is often recommended here 
• Latest book by Moncrieff, a Professor of Psychiatry in the UK: A Straight Talking Introduction to Psychiatric Drugs: The truth about how they work and how to come off them
• Also Sedated but I think that’s probably the least relevant to us, it is however the one I ended up buying and reading! 

As for anxiety, I spent about 20 years trying to find out what my problem was, or in the words of today “what happened to me (I haven’t read it)”. I finally found the right therapist and after a few years of really hard work, got to the bottom of it and things are so much better. I also started meditating 40 mins a day in March 2020 which has been a huge help, I started because of overwhelm with the pandemic, saw the benefits and have kept it up. It really helps keep me calm, steady and notice how I’m feeling, what I need that day and so on. 

 

Keep us posted on how you are and how you’re getting on ☺️

[Lori301]

So, I had the appointment with the psychiatrist yesterday and he's going to make some recommendations to my GP based on his evaluation of me.

 

He does agree I cannot take SSRIs anymore (based on everything my GP and I tried) and has seen this happen with a few other patients over the years. However, he would like me to taper off Zoloft more quickly and have me try a low dose of Risperidone (antipsychotic) to see if it will help with the anxiety.  His take was that I can taper much more quickly than hyperbolically because I will be going on a psychiatric medication and for that reason I will not have bad withdrawal from the Sertraline.    

 

I'll see what my GP says once she receives his recommendations but I am of course very worried based on what I've read here.   

 

[Lori301]

Faure, tks so much for your reply and the info. 👍

 

I do feel like I won half the battle with the psychiatrist when he admitted the SSRI had stopped working and was indeed causing my anxiety.  But then there's him wanting to see how I do on an antipsychotic because of my Complex PTSD and the 'normal' amount of anxiety and depression I suffer because of that.  

 

He was quite clear that ongoing psychotherapy is really important for me because of my CPTSD which I appreciate because it's not just throwing medication my way and then disappearing as it has been in the past with two psychiatrists I saw over the years. He is going to be available to my GP and I which is far more than the "one and done" most people get from psychiatrists in this province.   

 

I don't know what to do about the meds though to be honest so I have some thinking to do and some talking to do with my GP.  She is great to talk to and I can be open and honest with her fortunately. 

[Faure]

16 hours ago, Lori301 said:

 

I don't know what to do about the meds though to be honest so I have some thinking to do and some talking to do with my GP.  She is great to talk to and I can be open and honest with her fortunately. 

Reading people’s experiences on here regarding adding / switching drugs it seems clear that this nearly always exacerbates problems rather than solves them. You really need input from mods as I don’t know enough to be able to give you any proper advice. ChessieCat asks not to be tagged, so I’ve tagged @Onmyway as a person to ask for advice initially …just so you know mods here never recommend taking any psychiatric medications as this is a forum for getting safely off them ☺️
 

Please do read Anatomy of an Epidemic and you may also want to read Your Drug May be your Problem. It’s really important you educate yourself about how dangerous these drugs are, they are not a magic bullet and cause many problems for people.  It’s great that you are getting psychotherapy, this helped me a lot when I eventually found the right person and in the end got to the root of my problems. Life is much better for me now. 

[Lori301]

Thanks Faure for your insights, much appreciated as I confront this new issue. 

 

I will be talking with my GP and therapist about their thoughts about this.  I don't want to trade one problem for another but a big part of me wonders if I will be OK/better managing my CPTSD off meds.  I have been forced off SSRIs because they don't work anymore and are causing me tremendous anxiety, but it wasn't a choice and I just don't know quite what to think at this point.  No worries lol, you don't have to answer that 🙂

[Onmyway]

On 8/27/2022 at 11:55 AM, Lori301 said:

Faure, tks so much for your reply and the info. 👍

 

I do feel like I won half the battle with the psychiatrist when he admitted the SSRI had stopped working and was indeed causing my anxiety.  But then there's him wanting to see how I do on an antipsychotic because of my Complex PTSD and the 'normal' amount of anxiety and depression I suffer because of that.  

 

He was quite clear that ongoing psychotherapy is really important for me because of my CPTSD which I appreciate because it's not just throwing medication my way and then disappearing as it has been in the past with two psychiatrists I saw over the years. He is going to be available to my GP and I which is far more than the "one and done" most people get from psychiatrists in this province.   

 

I don't know what to do about the meds though to be honest so I have some thinking to do and some talking to do with my GP.  She is great to talk to and I can be open and honest with her fortunately. 

Lori, 

SSRIs don't work better than placebo on average. They are just excellent placebos. They do have effects on the brain - usually to numb emotions etc. but they do not 'treat' depression or anxiety in any clinically appreciable ways. Drugs that increase serotonin in the brain work exactly as well as drugs that decrease it to 'treat' depression. Here is an easy to read scientific article that shows this with data but there are many others. 

 

https://psycnet.apa.org/fulltext/2014-33307-003.html

 

I am not clear what your expectations are from SA. We generally do not like to advise on cases where there is active psychiatrist involvement - i.e. the member is getting advice from a doctor and following that advice. Our advice almost invariable is different so it creates confusion in the person listening to both and wastes our time (we are all volunteers) when the member is not following our advice and then suffers and comes back to be rescued. We have lost count of cases like these. If you wish to follow the advice of your psychiatrist, you are welcome to do so, we have no skin in that game. You have been provided with plenty of information above and can peruse the site as you wish. If you would like advice from us we are happy to help if you want to come off of your drugs. We don't provide advice on the right 'cocktail' etc. 

 

If you are sensitive to SSRIs you may be sensitive to all psych drugs - when we start/stop multiple drugs over multiple years this happens often. Antipsychotics are nasty drugs with numerous side effects and long terms adverse effects such as parkinsonism, weight gain and metabolic syndrome issues, dementia etc. There is also no evidence that they do anything for anxiety. They just numb you. 

 

You have had a very difficult life and your mind has adapted to it the best way it knows. You may like to read the book 'The Body Keeps the Score' or listen to the video by Bessel Van der Kolk. There are good psychological treatments for trauma that can provide not just numbing but also healing - EMDR, IFS etc. You can grieve and heal. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53RX2ESIqsM

 

Please let us know how you would like to proceed and if and how we can help you. 

If you would like advice, pls update your signature with the latest drugs so we can provide better advice. 

 

PS. I notice that you are taking vitamin D. If you do not have a deficiency I would recommend not taking it as it can cause anxiety in people with withdrawal who are more sensitive to it. 

 

 

 

[getofflex]

On 8/25/2022 at 8:40 AM, Lori301 said:

Has anyone experienced this or read about SSRIs causing anxiety rather than helping it? I guess the elephant in the room is is it the medication or my psychological issues?

For me personally, I had a lot of anxiety due to trauma and CPTSD due to a traumatic childhood.  The SSRI drugs helped with the anxiety, but they dulled my emotional and spiritual life.  I decided I wanted to be fully myself, and find alternate ways to deal with the anxiety, which I did.  

 

In your case, it may be that your anxiety is caused by the drugs, and it may also very well be a destabilized nervous system from your recent drug changes.  I believe that anxiety that is not caused by the aforementioned is a very normal part of the human experience, and it can be dealt with using means other than drugs.  

 

On 8/27/2022 at 10:42 AM, Lori301 said:

So, I had the appointment with the psychiatrist yesterday and he's going to make some recommendations to my GP based on his evaluation of me.

 

He does agree I cannot take SSRIs anymore (based on everything my GP and I tried) and has seen this happen with a few other patients over the years. However, he would like me to taper off Zoloft more quickly and have me try a low dose of Risperidone (antipsychotic) to see if it will help with the anxiety.  His take was that I can taper much more quickly than hyperbolically because I will be going on a psychiatric medication and for that reason I will not have bad withdrawal from the Sertraline.

Lori, to be honest, whenever I have seen people follow the advice of psychiatrists to jump from one drug to another, more often than not it worsens their condition, rather than helps it.  Antipsychotic drugs are not good.  Psychiatrists are a big part of why this site exists. Their modus operandi is to push psych drugs on people.  Please read that book that Faure suggested, Anatomy of an Epidemic.  It will really open your eyes about the truth of psychiatry, and drug manufacturers.  

 

I, too, have complex PTSD, and this can be treated without drugs, it truly can.  There is a wonderful book by Pete Walker called "Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving".  Please check this out.  However, I don't suggest you do this while you are in withdrawal.   In all honesty, while I was on psych drugs, I was not able to truly and fully heal from my CPTSD, because I did not have full access to my emotions.  

9 hours ago, Onmyway said:

I am not clear what your expectations are from SA. We generally do not like to advise on cases where there is active psychiatrist involvement - i.e. the member is getting advice from a doctor and following that advice. Our advice almost invariable is different so it creates confusion in the person listening to both and wastes our time (we are all volunteers) when the member is not following our advice and then suffers and comes back to be rescued.

I agree with @Onmywayabove, who makes a good point.  You need to make a decision as to whether you are going to follow the advice of the doctors, or whether you want to get off your drugs, and follow our suggestions here.  Often, the suggestions of the medical professionals are to go on more drugs, and keep people on drug carousels.  In the vast majority of cases, the person declines, and their situation becomes even more difficult.  

 

Please let us know whether you wish to continue following the advice of doctors and psychiatrists, or whether you wish to taper off of your drugs.  

Edited August 29, 2022 by getofflex

[Lori301]

My apologies, I did not understand the guidelines for SA clearly.  I will make a decision about whether or not to taper off entirely with the help/support of SA or go with medical advice to try another medication and advise here when I do.     

[Faure]

2 hours ago, Lori301 said:

My apologies, I did not understand the guidelines for SA clearly.  I will make a decision about whether or not to taper off entirely with the help/support of SA or go with medical advice to try another medication and advise here when I

Hi Lori, no need to apologise. Please remember that the doctors don’t actually know whether what they recommend will work.  Most of us here have learned not to trust what doctors say. We are here because we initially listened to doctors and that made us very unwell (debilitating withdrawal effects / further destabilisation with more drugs added / months off work).  We learned the very hard way to research independently and find out for ourselves and we try to encourage others to do the research and decide for themselves before they make decisions that could possibly cause them to become very unwell. 
 

Quote

 a big part of me wonders if I will be OK/better managing my CPTSD off meds

Listen to yourself - your “big part” is telling you what to do. You can trust yourself on this.
 

Please keep us posted as to how you are doing ☺️