☼ Tolk90: Can a smaller dose of Cipralex / escitalopram work more effectively?

[Tolk90]

I have been on the complete cancellation of xanaks for 6.5 months, and my psychological symptoms are driving me crazy,

 

I restored taking cipralex 4 months ago at a dose of 20mg. Before that, I took it for 6 years at a dose of 10 mg. He helped me, I lived a full life, then I also took xanaks, on average 0.5 mg per day for sleep.

Now I feel like a soulless person, I have completely no emotions, there is a slight fear, slight anger due to hopelessness, it seems to me that I am doomed, male libido has decreased very much, + anxiety at times. Sometimes my condition improves, there were 4 days of a great window, I even thought I was recovering 100%. I was wrong. Windows and waves appear and disappear in a cycle that is incomprehensible to me, this also applies to increased depression and anxiety, etc.

 

I am very interested in whether a smaller dose of AD can work better in my condition? By partially returning emotions? Today I decided to lower the dose from 20 mg to 18 mg. To understand what will change. I am very concerned about this topic.

I'm not completely ready. To leave cipralex until I recover from benzo, but due to the fact that my libido is so much depressed, as well as motivation for life, I do not see a future, anhedonia drives me crazy. Now I have more or less normal sleep from 6-8 hours. I wouldn't want to lose him. But due to the lack of libido, it seems to me that my depression is getting worse, although sometimes everything more or less returns and I feel normal, about 70%.

 

While I'm setting the task, reduce the dose of cipralex to 10mg. And see how I'll feel. Do you think this is possible? Without serious consequences. I've been through a lot during these 6.5 months that I want a little peace. I will be very grateful for your support and advice. Thanks. 

Sorry, I do not know English, and I have to translate the text through a translator, I apologize for the mistakes.

Edited August 7, 2022 by manymoretodays
added user name to topic and added some spacing/paragraph breaks for ease of reading

[manymoretodays]

Hi Tolk, sorry about the double "friendly warning"

We are currently a bit backed up with getting new members going, so be patient.

Meantime, give a try at:

How to summarize your drug history in your signature

this ^ is different from the confidential information you provided on registration, and will appear below all your posts when done.  It's very helpful for us to see.

thanks for using your translator too, that's helpful if you continue with that

[Tolk90]

Please tell me from experience, are there people on whom a smaller dose of cipralex works better? I feel very depressed, a complete lack of joy, and therefore I want to lower the dose. Thanks

[manymoretodays]

Hi Tolk90 and welcome,

Thank you for getting to your signature.

You will need to go back and get that translated  though.

I can't make sense of it.

Accounts Settings/signature should take you right there for translating purposes.  Be sure and hit SAVE when done.  Thank you.

 

I'm getting you approved today, and into the main Introductions now.

 

On 8/7/2022 at 1:00 PM, Tolk90 said:

I have been on the complete cancellation of xanaks for 6.5 months, and my psychological symptoms are driving me crazy,

 

I restored taking cipralex 4 months ago at a dose of 20mg. Before that, I took it for 6 years at a dose of 10 mg. He helped me, I lived a full life, then I also took xanaks, on average 0.5 mg per day for sleep.

 

On 8/7/2022 at 1:00 PM, Tolk90 said:

While I'm setting the task, reduce the dose of cipralex to 10mg. And see how I'll feel. Do you think this is possible? Without serious consequences. I've been through a lot during these 6.5 months that I want a little peace. I will be very grateful for your support and advice. Thanks. 

 

Yes, I think you'll be able to reduce your dose of Cipralex.  We just don't want you to go too quickly with the lowering.  And you'll see why as you read further, and look at some of the links.

And yes, many do just as well on a lower dose of Cipralex.  I did.

 

On 8/7/2022 at 1:00 PM, Tolk90 said:

Today I decided to lower the dose from 20 mg to 18 mg.

 

If you just did that 10% decrease from your Cipralex/escitalopram, if it was me, and I had been on it previously, and now once again for 4 months........I would wait at least  2 weeks or 14 days, before doing any further tapers.  Your brain/body has had plenty of time to become dependent on the Cipralex now.  And if we can give it time to adjust to each change in dose you may be able to avoid too much in the way of WD symptoms, which can be both physical and psychological.

 It's going to take up to a week for the new dose to register in your system, and very likely longer than that for your body and especially nervous system to adjust. 

 

10% off of 18 mg will be a dose of 16.2 mg.  We base each taper, off of the previous dose.......NOT the starting dose.

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

And it's possible you might tolerate a faster taper down to a lower dose, like 10 mg.  We usually suggest at least 4 weeks between tapers.  We want to help you avoid any WD(withdrawal) symptoms setting in.  Some of these are "psychological".  And some are physical.  You might be able to taper/reduce every 2 weeks up to a certain dose.  I don't know though, how you might tolerate this.  So best to do small incremental tapers, with lot's of observations, and err on the side of caution.  Once WD sets in......it can take a long long time to resolve. 

Dr. Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist  

 

How did you get your dose of 18 mg?

Tell us how you are feeling as you are adapting to the 18 mg.  Keep us updated.  And please give it at least 2 weeks before reducing more.

Yes , on that lower doses do sometimes work just as well as higher doses do.  In fact less is often more.  Let's be careful though, about getting your dose reduced.

 

Tips for tapering for tapering off escitalopram(Lexapro, Cipralex)

 

Welcome again, and best Tolk90,

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

 

 

 

 

[manymoretodays]

2015- 21.01.22 Xanax 0.5 mg +/-
2015- 05.10.21 Cipralex 10 mg
Cold turkey xanax 21/0122
Added Trazadone 01-02-22
Gave up Trazadone 16.04.22 16.04.22 
Returned Cipralex 20 mg
!!!Wanted to reduce Cipralex to 10mg. !!!
Gabapentin for sleep, very rarely. 300mg for 1 month 2 pills 
Most disgusting symptoms:
Obsessive thoughts/severe menses/ sometimes insomnia/decreased libido/depression/
(depression and decreased libido interrelated, windows and waves)

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

I'd rather you do all translations from here on out though.  Please.  Thank you.  Seems I only get a few free ones from my ancient work computer.  I do see a free app though which I'm sure works with newer devices, including phones, and likely notebooks and notepads......... and even upgraded PC systems.  

If you would go ahead and replace your unreadable version with this ^ via an edit, appreciated.  Minus my comments and remarks please, there's a few more below.  A couple final changes too, for you to add the translation DeepL did above.  

 

 Please note when you returned to Cipralex(escitalopram) with the date.  I know it was 4 months ago from reading your first post, but we need to see that in the signature.....  Spell out the months to avoid confusion, add the day and year somewhere too.  Thanks.

Things like Disgusting symptoms you can leave out of the signature box too, that kind of thing can go in your narrative reply boxes.

I copied the below over from:  How to Summarize Your Drug History In your history

 

Putting a SHORT version of your recent history of reducing or discontinuing drugs in your signature helps people understand your context when they read your posts.

 

Your signature appears under all your posts. To add or edit your signature, click on Account Settings in the menu that drops down from your name in the upper right of every page.

 

This link should go directly to your own signature. Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Remember to Save after entering the text in the box:

 

The staff needs this information to answer your questions. In your signature, we need to see

- Exactly what drugs you're taking now (not just psychiatric drugs), with dosages and when you started each drug

- What you were taking before, with dosages and start and stop dates

 

As the signature is limited to 12 lines, we expect you to condense your drug history. The last few years usually will do.

 

FOR READABILITY, SHORT LINES ARE BEST.

• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs
• Include ALL drugs, doses, and dates (starting and stopping)
• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years
• Use actual dates or approximate dates (e.g. mid-June 2018) rather than relative time frames (e.g. 3 months ago)
• Spell out months (e.g. "January" or "Jan" as 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as 9 Jan 2016 or 1 Sept 2016)
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses

 

Example:

2001–2002 paroxetine 
2003  citalopram 
2004  paroxetine
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg

 

If you edit your signature, the new one replaces any prior signature. It will appear in your signature under all your posts, even your old posts. If you want to save the information in the old signature, copy it and save it in a file on your computer or in a post in your Introductions topic.

 

(As of 12/31/13: Signatures are limited to 12 lines of text.)

How to add or edit your signature

1. Click on this link to open the correct page in User Settings:
   Create Your Signature in "Account Settings". 
   2017-June 12 update: link works on desktop, tablet and mobile phone versions
    
2. Enter your signature in the space provided.  Remove the old untranslated version.
3. When you are done, Click on the big black Save button at the bottom.

Well, that was funnish/ fun/interesting.

 

Thanks Tolk90 and don't be a stranger, don't be afraid to post your translations, and thoughts, questions in replies.  We have had other members working through a translator system. We will all just do our best to communicate clearly after your posts. 

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Tolk90]

Привет. Я не понимаю, как это может быть связано. Но после того, как я снизил дозу до 18 мг. Либидо стало еще хуже, может это совпадение. Но, пожалуй, это самый сильный симптом, который еще больше вгоняет вас в депрессию. Прошло 9 дней в дозе 18 мг. Вчера у меня было странное ощущение холода в голове. Там как будто холодильник включили. И немного кружится голова. Я не могу сказать, какие симптомы связаны с уменьшением дозы, а какие с отменой бензо. Когда я принял 20 мг, я не чувствовал себя идеально. Поэтому трудно делать выводы. Я была уверена, что если снизлю дозу до 10 мг, получу восстановление либидо и на этом фоне общее состояние станет более позитивным. я начал сомневаться

 

 

Hi. I don't understand how this could be related. But after I lowered my dose to 18mg. The libido got even worse, maybe that's a coincidence. But it's probably the strongest symptom that makes you even more depressed. It's been nine days on the 18mg dose. Yesterday I had a strange cold sensation in my head. It was like a refrigerator turned on in there. And I felt a little dizzy. I can't tell which symptoms are related to lowering the dose and which are related to taking off the benzo. When I took the 20 mg, I didn't feel perfect. So it's hard to draw conclusions. I was sure that if I reduced the dose to 10 mg, I would get a recovery in libido and on that background, my overall condition would become more positive. I began to doubt

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Edited August 17, 2022 by manymoretodays
added translation

[Tolk90]

I accidentally removed the signatures of people from below, who used what and how much time, and I can't find how to return this information. Help

[ChessieCat]

This link goes straight to your own signature.  Remember to click Save once you have updated it.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[manymoretodays]

And adding:  Translation of present signature, with first taper included-

 

2015 - 21.01.22 ксанакс 0,5 мг +/- 2015- 05.10.21 Ципралекс 10 мг Холодная индейка ксанакс 21.01.22 Тразадон с 01.02.22 по 16.04.22 Ципралекс 20 мг с 22.04.16 Габапентин для сна, очень редко. 300мг на 1 месяц 2 таблетки Сейчас 07.08.22 ципралекс 18мг

 

2015- 21.01.22 xanax 0.5 mg +/- 2015- 05.10.21 Cipralex 10 mg Cold turkey xanax 21.01.22 Trazadone 01.02.22 to 16.04.22 Cipralex 20 mg from 22.04.16 Gabapentin for sleep, very rarely. 300mg for 1 month 2 pills Now 07.08.22 Cipralex 18mg

 

And hi there Tolk90!

 

It is good to see you back here. 

You just lost your first signature, with your first try in getting it into the signature box.

And then you wrote a second signature, yet did not translate it for us.

 

https://www.deepl.com/translator was good to me this morning.

 

Can you copy one of the translated versions first.

Then go to AccountSettings/signature which will bring you to your latest signature, and just add in one or the other signatures which are translated and preserved here on site now.

 

I like the one that includes your recent taper to Cipralex 18 mg.

 

Can you tell us how that is going for you?  Are you experiencing any new symptoms or distress?

 

Thank you Tolk.  I would like to see how you are now.  You are one week beyond your first taper.

How did you measure the 18 mg of Cipralex?

 

Thank you for your tries, and responding again.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

 

 

 

 

[Tolk90]

I had to buy a jewelry scale. I measure 18 mg on it. And I drink it in the morning. Since I'm not completely off the Xanax. It's not always clear to me what the symptoms are from. But of the symptoms that I can definitely attribute to the decreased dose of Cipralex, is the libido has worsened even more, the shroud over my eyes not much, but there is, sometimes a feeling of cold in my head, and also a tightness in the center of my chest, a squeeze. I am trying to recover on this dose and decide to reduce further. While I don't quite understand how I can give up AD, at all, I read success stories and admire people. I'm trying to look at everything optimistically, even though it's extremely difficult. I'm 32 years old, I really want to quit all the pills and have another baby with my wife. I really want to be confident in myself, not afraid of myself. And make friends with my thoughts and my self. I'm glad to see that you are responding. 

[manymoretodays]

H Tolk90,

Thank you for translating before posting.

I translated one of your posts above as well, so I could understand, and did some adjustments to your signature.

Please translate your posts.  It is very time consuming for me to do.

 

To read only,  here is another translator that you could use:

  

5 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Instructions on how to view SA in your native language:

 

Go to survivingantidepressants.org and copy the URL then go to:

 

https://translate.google.com/

 

Click on the Website TAB, and on the right hand side click on the language you want to view the website in.

 

 

How much alprazolam(Xanax) are you taking now?

When?  Time?  Dose?  And how often-  once a week, twice a week, every day?  

 

Symptoms you are reporting are likely continued WD of the more protracted/extended type since your first effort to reduce and get off escitalopram(Cipralex).  Or possibly from the escitalopram and xanax that you are using now.  I do hope you see some improvements soon.  We often refer to those improvement as Windows.

 

I'm glad you got a scale.  Here is the link to help you understand how to use it.

Using a scale to weigh and measure doses

Do know that the weight of the pill is not the same as the dose of the pill.  For example:  A 20 mg pill of escitalopram weighs more than 20 mg, due to fillers and such.  So you do need to do some math, and get an average weight of your pills before weighing for the dose you would like to take.

Maybe you know all this and have read about it.  Let us know what you need help with.

 

My hope is that you might consider decreasing even more your Cipralex, and maybe going off it someday.

 

For now.  I would encourage to stay at the 18 mg dose of Cipralex for a total of 4 weeks.  And then, you might go down 10% more from the 18 mg dose, which would be a dose of 16.2 in mg.

 

More links for your understanding:

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur. 

 

Brain Remodelling

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by manymoretodays

[Tolk90]

Почему-то переводчик сделал странный перевод. Ксанакс сейчас не принимаю, только ципралекс 18 мг. И я планирую снизить дозу до 16,2 мг. с 21 августа, так как пройдет 15 дней. Сегодня я чувствую себя лучше. Купила магний, помогает при тревоге. Я совершил довольно много ошибок, потому что не знал, что принимаю такой зловещий яд. От ципралекса в первый раз я отказалась довольно легко. И без всяких шишек отказался от Ксанакса, после чего испытал ад. Мне прописали тразадон для сна и габапентин в первый раз. Через три месяца у меня начались маленькие окошки, но я почувствовала, что мне этого мало, и вернулась к ципралексу, надеясь вернуться к прежней жизни. Это была моя ошибка. Я должен был оставить Trazadon и дождаться улучшения, чтобы отказаться от него в будущем. Сейчас у меня только ципралекс 18 мг. Я могу' Пока не придумал, что делать с этим ядом. Но в планах понизить до 10, потом до 5 мг. И посмотрите, что произойдет. Я пока даже не могу представить полный отказ. I can't even imagine a complete rejection yet. Probably, it would be logical to return to Trazadone, or to some light AD with a sedative effect, to continue reducing the dose. I didn't think the withdrawal from antidepressants was as violent as with benzo. Since before that I refused Ad, under the guise of benzo, it was quite easy.

[manymoretodays]

1 hour ago, Tolk90 said:

I can't even imagine a complete rejection yet. Probably, it would be logical to return to Trazadone, or to some light AD with a sedative effect, to continue reducing the dose. I didn't think the withdrawal from antidepressants was as violent as with benzo. Since before that I refused Ad, under the guise of benzo, it was quite easy.

 

On 8/14/2022 at 10:39 PM, Tolk90 said:

Hi. I don't understand how this could be related. But after I lowered my dose to 18mg. The libido got even worse, maybe that's a coincidence. But it's probably the strongest symptom that makes you even more depressed. It's been nine days on the 18mg dose. Yesterday I had a strange cold sensation in my head. It was like a refrigerator turned on in there. And I felt a little dizzy. I can't tell which symptoms are related to lowering the dose and which are related to taking off the benzo. When I took the 20 mg, I didn't feel perfect. So it's hard to draw conclusions. I was sure that if I reduced the dose to 10 mg, I would get a recovery in libido and on that background, my overall condition would become more positive. I began to doubt

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

Tolk90,

Have you completely abstained/ceased/stopped the xanax?  I'm not certain or sure of this.  I thought I read that you were using it again sparingly, and added that to your signature in English.  Please clarify/make clear to us in a response here, in English.  And yes, I understand the sexual side effects from these drugs or after coming off these drugs can be so very tough, and lead to depression feelings and obsessions around.  We, as yet, don't understand a lot about sexual side effects from drugs or WD and it is possible that you will get your libido/sexual energy and feelings back with sex, both on a reduced dose, and if and when you come off.  It might take time.  Stay optimistic.  Keep reading those success stories too.  Avoid negative posts around that for now.

Do see:

Neuroemotions

and

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotion symptoms

 

More on sexual problems encounter on drugs or after, apparently there are groups for this too.  I think you are a female, as one of your translated posts mentioned menstrual difficulties too.  Also avoid reading if it is too disturbing and makes you feel more hopeless.  There is always hope Tolk.  Patience and time required:

POST-SSRI SEXUAL PROBLEMS

 

Post-SSRI sexual dysfunction (PSSD)

 

SSRIsex group for post-SSRI sexual dysfunction (PSSD)

 

Persistent Genital Arousal Disorder (PGAD)

 

There is no logic to returning to Trazodone or  any more sedating AD, from my perspective/point of view.  That would just get you further dependent on yet another drug, and also would further distress your poor dysregulated and mixed up nervous system right now.

We aren't in the business of promoting psychiatric psychoactive drugs here at all.  Not at all.  

 

I can promote continuing with a slower taper of your escitalopram(Cipralex) and being patient.  Also use non-drug coping as much as you can.  I would hate to see you at such a young age get lost in psychopharmacology and psychiatric treatment.

 

Please be careful now with supplements of any kind.

The only 2 we promote would be:

BASIC SUPPLEMENT TOOLKIT

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

And then do read through the topics, at least the first page, before trying. 

Do not try both at the same time.

Do start with one or the other, at a low dose first so you can see how you do with it. 

 

Make observations daily for yourself, looking for improvements or Windows.

Especially observe how your symptoms relate to each dose change you make over a couple of weeks at least.  This for your continued escitalopram(Cipralex) taper.

 

Okay.  A lot to look at.  

Let us know what you decide.

Please make clear about xanax usage too.

 

Thank you Tolk.

Much healing being sent.

 

mmt

 

 

 

 

[Tolk90]

Я не принимал ксанакс 6 месяцев и 4 недели. Он закончил. На данном этапе только циталопрам в дозе 18 мг. От которого я тоже хочу отказаться. Или хотя бы уменьшить до 5мг. В общем, живу теперь сносно. У меня нет эмоций, или они непостоянны. Пустота в душе. Сегодня утром был половой акт, более-менее нормальный. Я это сделал. Может быть, с меньшей дозой все наладится. Мне кажется, что ципралекс, очень сильно блокирует мои эмоции, которые и без того заблокированы из-за сильного стресса, после отмены ксанакса.

[manymoretodays]

Translate please Tolk90. 

Have you tried https://www.deepl.com/translator

I can't keep doing it for you.

Translate and then copy and paste here.  Thank you.

I will improve/make your signature more accurate now..

 

And good job with coming off and staying off Xanax.  

We usually recommend coming off the AD before xanax, as sometimes the xanax(benzo) can help with WD.

As you are reporting no emotions, emptiness, and feeling so very blah/down right now though......any reintroduction of xanax might add to that now.

Are you sleeping okay?

 

And I did read your post above, but want you to get in the habit of translating your posts. 

I know it's kind of personal information too and so......I will just Yay! on having some decent intercourse.  Very good. 

That's improvement, right!!!!

 

And Tolk90, benzo withdrawal can be fierce, as can AD WD.  And unfortunately the AD, your escitalopram may not help a whole lot with either WD.  Good to hear you report living tolerably well right now.

 

Okay.  Over and out.

Edited August 17, 2022 by manymoretodays

[Tolk90]

I have been translating the entire text into English since the very first post. It is strange that you saw otherwise. Yes I have more or less normal sleep now. I think that by lowering the escitalopram, sleep may worsen. 

[manymoretodays]

The above post is translated.  Thank you.

Was the translation correct from a previous post that you feel like you are living tolerably well right now?

 

[Tolk90]

Today I feel calm, but the stress does not cease to remind me of itself, after taking Xanax off, I live with the feeling that all this is not happening to me. Does that really happen? I hope this trigger passes with time. My brain is constantly in a battle phase, trying to find a workaround from the current catastrophe. A simple pathway to escape from this condition, so to speak, but there is no such road. Tomorrow I plan to take 18 mg of Cipralex, and then I will reduce it by another 10%.

[Tolk90]

Withdrawing Xanax is the worst thing I've ever had to go through, God if I knew what I was taking. On the package of these drugs, the first thing it should say is for emergencies only. It's a shame that we make ourselves addicts by not realizing that we are taking a real drug. And now the antidepressant, quitting it is just as addictive, dammit. I still have anxiety, it's in and out. Sometimes every other day, I've had it on a dose of 20 mg and 18 mg and I'm sure it will be on 16.2 mg. And depression, which works very strangely, I understand that there is life, I understand that there are many amazing things in life, there is something to live for, but at the same moment it always reminds me of its presence. I can joke, I can laugh, but at the same moment, I'm always on my guard, waiting for anxiety and bad thoughts. 

[Tolk90]

On 08/21/22/222 I reduced the dose of Cipralex to 16.2mg

[manymoretodays]

Hi Tolk90!,

Okay, I see that decrease and hoping it is not too soon, given your symptoms and all.

It was only 2 weeks since your previous reduction of 10%.

Keep us updated as to how it is going, and keep some notes for yourself too.

I think you'll find it helpful.

 

How often are you using the 0.5 mg xanax now?

Are you using it for sleep or for other symptoms?

Tell us a little more.

 

And hmmm,  your signature is mostly untranslated now.  I'll see if I can add in a translated version to it.  That way whoever stops by will be able to read it.

 

Okay, signature translated and left the untranslated there too.

When you are signed in again, you can go see if there are others in your area that are members here too.  I know it must be really hard participating here, if English(U.S. English) is not your main language.  Maybe you could find a tapering buddy to do PM's with too.

Explore the site too Tolk90.  So much here.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by manymoretodays

[Tolk90]

28.08.22 reduced cipralex to 15 mg, the last two reductions were much easier.

[ChessieCat]

Copy of drug signature before translating it into English using deepL translator:

 

2015 г. - 21 января 2022 г. ксанакс(алпразолам(ксанакс)) 0,5 мг +/-   

2015- 05.10.21(05.10.2021) Ципралекс 10 мг (оторвался от ?CT)

2022-Добавлен тразадон 01.02.22 Отказался от тразадона 16.04.22  22.04.16 Габапентин для сна, очень редко. 300мг на 1 месяц 2 таблетки

2022- конец апреля или май, перезапустить ципралекс (эсциталопрам) 20 мг (хочу снизить ципралекс до 10 мг) 7 августа- уменьшить эсциталопрам 18 мг

On 08/21/22/222 I reduced the dose of Cipralex to 16.2mg

2015 г. - Jan 21, 2022 xanax(alprazolam(xanax)) 0.5 mg +/-   

2015- 05.10.21(05.10.2021) Cipralex 10 mg (withdrawn from ?CT)

2022-Added trazadone 01/02/22/22 Gave up trazadone 16/04/22/22/16 Gabapentin for sleep, very rarely. 300mg for 1 month 2 pills

2022-late April or May, restarted cipralex (escitalopram) 20 mg (want to reduce cipralex to 10 mg) August 7-reduced escitalopram 18 mg August 21- 16.2 mg

 

 

ENGLISH:

 

 2015 г. - January 21, 2022 xanax(alprazolam(xanax)) 0.5 mg +/-   

2015- 05.10.21(05.10.2021) Cipralex 10 mg (withdrawn from ?CT)

2022-Added trazadone 01/02/22/22 Gave up trazadone 16/04/22/22/16 Gabapentin for sleep, very rarely. 300mg for 1 month 2 pills

2022-late April or May, restarted cipralex (escitalopram) 20 mg (want to reduce cipralex to 10 mg) August 7-reduced escitalopram 18 mg

On 08/21/22/222 I reduced the dose of Cipralex to 16.2mg

2015 г. - Jan 21, 2022 xanax(alprazolam(xanax)) 0.5 mg +/-   

2015- 05/10/21(05/10/2021) Cipralex 10 mg (withdrawn from ?CT)

2022-Added trazadone 01/02/22/22 Gave up trazadone 16/04/22/22/16 Gabapentin for sleep, very rarely. 300mg for 1 month 2 pills

2022-late April or May, restarted cipralex 20 mg (want to reduce cipralex to 10 mg) August 7-reduced escitalopram 18 mg August 21- 16.2 mg

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

 

 

[manymoretodays]

 

On 8/31/2022 at 12:58 AM, Tolk90 said:

28.08.22 reduced cipralex to 15 mg, the last two reductions were much easier.

 

Okay.  And you are doing less than 10%, which is a good idea since you are doing more frequent reductions than  every 4 weeks

.

How are you doing?

 

To work out a 2.5% reduction from 15 mg, you would multiply the present dose by 0.975 to get your next dose in mg.

If you want to do 5% then multiply by 0.95.

10% you multiply current dose by 0.90 to get the next dose.

 

You don't want to exceed 10% in any one 4 week period.

 

Here's more on microtapers and the brassmonkey slide method:

Brassmonkey Slide Method of Microtapering

 

Be sure to take a nice HOLD period of 2 weeks, after getting to a cummulative 10% taper.

And then once you get to the lower doses, most definitely proceed carefully, not to exceed 10% of each previous dose, or even less.......in any month time period.

 

Hope your well enough.  Keep us updated.  Thanks.

mmt

[Happy2Heal]

On 8/19/2022 at 12:53 PM, Tolk90 said:

Withdrawing Xanax is the worst thing I've ever had to go through, God if I knew what I was taking. On the package of these drugs, the first thing it should say is for emergencies only. It's a shame that we make ourselves addicts by not realizing that we are taking a real drug. And now the antidepressant, quitting it is just as addictive, dammit. I still have anxiety, it's in and out. Sometimes every other day, I've had it on a dose of 20 mg and 18 mg and I'm sure it will be on 16.2 mg. And depression, which works very strangely, I understand that there is life, I understand that there are many amazing things in life, there is something to live for, but at the same moment it always reminds me of its presence. I can joke, I can laugh, but at the same moment, I'm always on my guard, waiting for anxiety and bad thoughts. 

 

 

Oh @Tolk90  we have all been where you are, I think!!
not realizing how the side effects of these drugs would affect us, not realizing how hard they would be to stop. We were told they were not addictive but it sure feels like they must be, when you try to stop taking them, doesn't it?

I am a bit worried about how fast you seem to be  reducing your dose of Cipralex.. This drug is very very strong, and when you get down to the lower doses, particularly when you get down under 5 mgs or so, you may need to slow WAY down. Many of us have had a very hard time at the lower doses.

 

 It  may help you to keep a couple of things in mind- although it can be difficult at times, withdrawal will not last forever, it will end and you WILL heal.  So don't worry that how you feel now is how you will always feel.

You are GOING to feel a lot better eventually.

 

the other thing is this: no one knows for sure how long withdrawal symptoms will last. It is good to keep a positive outlook and hope for the best, but it may be longer than you (or any of us) would like. To help with getting thru the  process, it's good to adopt an attitude of acceptance.

 

Just accept that this is how things will be for a while. Try to float above it. Don't let the symptoms take over your days.  Keep doing what you usually do if you are able to, and know that you are on the path to recovery. You will have some tough moments but you will also have some good ones, too. When this is over, you will only remember the good things. Really!! 

 

 

I hope this helps a little bit at least.

 

you are doing very well staying as calm and level headed as you are!

 

 

[Tolk90]

Titled: Is it better to take an antidepressant, morning or evening?

 

Good afternoon. I have been reducing estacilopram for 10 months. I took a dose of 20mg, I try to reduce it by 10% every 3 weeks. Everything is individual, according to your well-being. Now the dose is 5.7 mg. 
Sutra after waking up, I drink my dose and after 2 hours, I feel very depressed.which can pass by the middle of the day, especially after a nap. I wanted to know if it makes sense to postpone the dose for the evening? Maybe I can be more functional during the day? 
And if it still makes sense, then how best to do it. Thank you.

Edited May 31, 2023 by manymoretodays
added title

[manymoretodays]

Hi @Tolk90Tolk90, long time no see.  Good to see you posting.

 

I merged your post from the tapering forum back here to your Introduction topic today. 

This is the best spot for you to post questions around your case.

 

On 5/28/2023 at 1:24 PM, Tolk90 said:

Sutra after waking up, I drink my dose and after 2 hours, I feel very depressed.which can pass by the middle of the day, especially after a nap. I wanted to know if it makes sense to postpone the dose for the evening? Maybe I can be more functional during the day? 

 

I'm glad to hear that your taper is going okay.  It's hard to tell if the early day feeling depressed is due to your early in the day timing of your Cipralex(escitalopram), or if that is a WD(withdrawal) symptom.

I used to be on escitalopram and always took it early, as it tended to be more activating for me.  This is not the case for all.  I know some who do just fine with sleep even when taking escitalopram in the evening or bedtime.

 

If you do decide to experiment with changing the timing of the escitalopram, we'd recommend you do it gradually.......moving it just one hour each day until you reach the desired new time you'd like to take it.  If you do this, do it independently of any tapering changes.  Both a change in timing of dose and a decrease dose are considered "Dose change events".  Don't make 2 changes at once.  If you change the timing gradually by an hour a day when you get to your desired "new time for dosing" I would HOLD then for at least a week, or two........ before making any other dose changes.

The Rule of 3KIS:;Keep it simple, stable, and slow

 

Any other WD symptoms to report?

 

Now that you are on a much lower dose of the escitalopram you may want to slow your taper down.   You could do longer holds.  Usually 4 weeks of a HOLD is good after a 10% taper from the previous dose.  Some go longer, depending on their pattern.

Some may do less of a percentage drop too, at the lower doses.  You could for example, only drop by 5% or even less.

 

The changes to the receptors involved or receptor saturations become much greater, with each dose drop, at lower doses of most all of the SSRI's.  And those changes may relate to withdrawal symptoms.  So think about it, and I might give a longer HOLD time between tapers, AND taper by even less.  Depending how you feel.

 

Congratulations on getting to 5.7 mg!

 

Any new drugs tried since last here?

 

Do you remember how to update your signature?  Add in the present date, year, month and drug by name with the current dose.  That will be helpful to see at a glance.  Quick link to your signature:  AccountSettings/signature

 

Great to see you posting here.  It's been awhile.  Time flies!

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Tolk90]

My success story is written through a translator, please excuse me if there are unclear points somewhere,
It's sad! Everything that happens to us is extremely sad and terrible. If we put aside for a second what we have to go through to experience happiness. It's not that bad!!! It's definitely worth it. Yes, of course, I would not want to relive it again, but I can confidently say it was worth it not to give up.

 

It so happened that in my life since the age of 16 + I had a lot of addictions, marijuana 16-19 years old/ amphetamine 17-19 years old [long marathons] / alcohol 17-25 years old from the age of 21 I had a family and turned into a chronic alcoholic with long binge drinking, ivs, clinics, etc.

 

/ benzo + antidepressant from the age of 25-33, this is what we have gathered for. At the age of 25, I experienced a severe panic attack on the background of alcohol abuse, after another exit from the "binge". It was terrible, at that moment I was very afraid for my health and naturally stopped drinking alcohol. It didn't help, because I spoiled myself so much that my psychological state could not recover on its own, I drowned in panic attacks and depression.

 

After 3 months, my relatives took me to a psychotherapist, who in turn prescribed me Xanax and Cipralex. They explained to me how to take the pills correctly. We planned a smooth entry in 14 days, I reached the maximum dose, hiding behind Xanax, I started taking an antidepressant and from that moment my new life began. I didn't drink alcohol anymore, I didn't use drugs. Only benzo and a/d. I was in business, I started making good money, I traveled a lot, I have a super wife and a great daughter. Overall, life was good. At times I thought I should stop taking pills, but I put it off for later. I changed the antidepressant a couple of times, and I started to feel bad, a certain deficit appeared in my soul, it's hard to explain, although you all understand it perfectly!!! I did not feel life, there was tearfulness, apathy.

 

I dropped one antidepressant, returned another, and could skip appointments for 2-3 days. Then take any AD from the home medicine cabinet and start drinking again. It was Brintelix, and various generics from Cipralex. I didn't have any severe withdrawal symptoms. Since I stopped them with the systematic use of benzo... (at that time I did not understand this) I had been taking Benzo for 8 years, my regular dose was 0.5mg at night, sometimes I took the same dose in the middle of the day. It's the same with every air flight, in any severe stress, and at any moment when I felt bad. In general, benzo became the very remote control from the movie Click, 2006 with Adam Sandler, everything that I did not want to live, benzo was right there.

Taking both drugs, I already had strange symptoms, bloating, chronic belching of air, a small rash on my forehead, which took place only in summer at sea, spikes in blood pressure, heart rhythm disturbances, cracked skin on my elbows. This is part of the symptoms that I remember, there were more of them. What are the psychological problems, the origin of which I could not explain to myself. I remember I was afraid to buy myself the nicest thing, for example: the latest smartphone model or the most expensive sneakers, I did not when I did not watch the last episode of the series, I had some kind of fear of doom, that this was the end, and then what next? That is, the fear that there is nothing further... now I understand roughly what happened.

 

Most likely, I experienced withdrawal from both drugs, I had tolerance for benzo, but I could not increase the dose, since I stopped some of the bad condition with an antidepressant, and from constant skipping and changing an antidepressant, I stopped feeling bad thereby Xanax. That was all it took, with occasional ill health and panic attacks.

I refused an antidepressant and for several months, my condition worsened every day, I was afraid of the elderly, I was afraid of the death of my relatives, I was afraid for my health, I was corny afraid to be nervous and nervous about it, a vicious circle that in the end gave panic attacks. 3 months after the cancellation of a/D (cold turkey) I decided to abandon benzo as well. You can laugh here! I think you understand perfectly well what happened. For about 5 days, I somehow managed to stay on high anxiety and moderate insomnia. And then hell was waiting for me.

- uncontrolled anxiety (as if a fighter jet flies 24/7 inside the stomach, and a helicopter flies 24/7 in the head)
- under the skin as if someone was running all over the body
- visual hallucinations
- the feeling that the organs are mixed up inside and twitching
- insomnia
- inability to sit still
- panic attacks
- a sea of benzo lies in my head (there is a lot about it on the benzo forum)
- tears
- I couldn't concentrate on anything for more than a minute.
- if I managed to fall asleep, it was a dream that I did not feel, my brain could not get enough of it.
- I hated the morning (cortisol is angry)
- terrible depression, when thoughts of suicide came to my mind, I was scared as hell.
- I stopped eating
- lost 20kg
- the horror of all this is hopelessness, after 4 months I lost all hope.

On medicines:
10 days after the cold turkey from Xanax, I arrived at the clinic, where they cleaned my blood and prescribed Trittico and Gabarentine, from which I began to sleep a little. Every time I woke up in the morning, I had a greedy feeling that the night was over. And concrete shoulders, apparently one of the symptoms, I woke up from not feeling my shoulders, they were stiff as hell every morning.
At the clinic, they told me that in 2 months everything would go away, what a disappointment it was, in 3 months =).
The physical symptoms eased a little, but anxiety and psychological problems, including depression, increased in threes. I counted the days, but it didn't get any better. Of course, after 4-5 months of stable poor condition, I lost hope of healing. It seemed to me that I had broken myself and there would never be the same life. There were a few nights when I picked up benzo and sat with pills on the floor, I was a second away from breaking down. But each time I put them off for at least an hour. By the way, this is a good brain training. Until you get stronger, don't tell yourself that you won't take the pills anymore, just postpone it for a few hours, and after a few hours, again. The only thing that helped me was that I promised myself that EVERYTHING would be fine, no more pills. And as I remember it now, it was so determined that I couldn't let myself down. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself.

And so, for about 5 months, I found forums about benzo and a/d, realizing that I was not the only one. I decided to return to the antidepressant cipralex. To somehow restore my well-being. 2 days after I started taking it, I experienced the full horror of the symptoms myself. Anxiety began to drive me crazy and it already seemed to me that I was about to say goodbye to my mind forever.

I realized that I needed medical supervision. I decided to go to the hospital. I spent 5 days there. They helped me to restore the antidepressant, and they let me go home. After 3 weeks at the 10mg mark. I was not getting better, I decided to increase the dose to 15mg, there was no desired effect. The anxiety was exhausting anyway and gave me a rest only in the evening. I almost always lay in bed, it was unrealistic to do anything in this state. I got tired of everything in 15 minutes, no matter what I started doing. So I decided to increase the dose to 20mg. What happened next cannot be called life. Morning anxiety, a complete vacuum in my head. My whole body was no longer mine. I felt nothing but doom. I thought about suicide more and more often, it scared me terribly. Because I understood the absurdity of these thoughts. I tried taking supplements, I thought maybe something would help. No! The worst thing I took was vitamin D. (I highly recommend it, you can bring yourself to a critical state.) (Try lard, it really works positively) It is extremely difficult to describe that state, I struggled in every possible way, trying to distract myself.

Finally, I realized that nothing works and my only option is to endure and completely give up all pills. On August 1, 2022, I began to reduce the dose of the antidepressant. According to a well-known technique in these circles, 10% of the current dose is once a month. Sometimes a little faster, sometimes I stayed longer, for example, I was on 5 mg for about 2.5 months. I looked at the situation.

 

My last dose was on December 3, 2023, about 0.8 mg, a little crumb. It's been difficult all this time. The most difficult thing is the unknown. I was afraid of falling into a bad state of health, I was afraid of the moment when there would be no antidepressant left. I was afraid of panic attacks. But the most amazing thing is, the lower the dose of the antidepressant, the easier it became for me. During these 16 months, I passed my license and drive a car, (I highly recommend it to those who do not know how to drive) my brain began to rest behind the wheel. I couldn't get enough of driving. When I was driving, I could not think about my problems related to pills, it's magical. If you already know how to drive, try driving a boat, motorcycle, go-karting, off-road driving in jeeps, any new thing that will make your brain experience stress from another. It helps a lot. I also completely rebuilt my business with other suppliers and was able to get rid of the people who were making this business toxic. He also organized a business, began to build suburban real estate and has already built 2 facilities. Little by little, everything is recovering, and there are plans to have a second child.
I remember the first time I went to meet my wife and daughter and came a little earlier, it was near the subway in my favorite city where I live, St. Petersburg in Russia. I sat down on a bench, and suddenly I experienced silence and peace inside. I just watched people walking, cars driving, birds flying. I had a little rush of happiness. I'll always remember that. This was my first window. 9 months after the withdrawal of benzo, and at first the antidepressant was reduced. Then I realized that I was going the right way.

 

You know. I would never agree to walk this path again. And I will never wish anyone to be where I was, and where some of us are now. But I can say for sure. I would not give up and would come out of this state again. I congratulate everyone who was able to survive this. I'm proud of you, I'm proud of Myself. Those who are now in their wave and are going this way, you will do it! Next, you will experience such pride in yourself that any ocean will be knee-deep for you.

Edited January 3 by manymoretodays
just spacing for readability

[Tolk90]

1

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Tolk90 Are you off all your psychiatric drugs? How are you feeling?

[Tolk90]

8 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Привет,@Tolk90 Вы отказались от всех своих психиатрических препаратов? Как вы себя чувствуете?

Greetings. Yes, I'm fine. The only thing that bothers me is that I don't believe it's over yet. I still have a reduced libido, although it has improved significantly during this time, as well as excess weight. 

Today is exactly one month since my last 0.8 mg dose. And everything is fine. I posted a success story. I'm not sure if I did it right, in the right section, etc. near my story is an exclamation mark icon. What would that mean? 

Post my story, I felt it my duty to write it, as I am sure many participants need it.

[Altostrata]

How did you go off that last little bit? No bumps at all? Do you feel any different now?

[Emonda]

On 12/30/2023 at 6:22 AM, Tolk90 said:

My success story is written through a translator, please excuse me if there are unclear points somewhere,

 

Well done on getting off your AD.

 

Thanks for posting the above in the success stories section. I've brought that post back here to your original thread...for the time being.

 

We like members to be AD-free for 12 months before we close this thread and commence their success story.

 

Please do keep us updated on how you are doing, and I look forward to you declaring success this time next year.

 

Emonda

[Altostrata]

Because you're feeling better, I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol ☼ to the title of your Intro topic, to show you're recovering.

 

Please continue to let us know how you're doing. I hope you will add your story to our Recovery Success Stories eventually!

 

Please see this topic:  How to write your success story

[Tolk90]

On 04.01.2024 at 06:48, Altostrata said:

Как ты справился с этой последней минуткой? Никаких неровностей вообще? Чувствуете ли вы себя по-другому сейчас?

The first 2 weeks after the cancellation, I was very nervous. I was plagued by electric shocks in my head and severe headaches. My mood worsens a little when I get tired, at this moment a sad thought may slip through. Today is the 34th day of total cancellation, and perhaps this is the greatest achievement in my life. I really gave myself a real gift.

[Tolk90]

Please tell me, I am approaching 11 months after the withdrawal of escitalopram, many symptoms have passed and I have an excellent tendency to improve. But a couple of days ago, a symptom appeared, it is sharp and resembles the state before a panic attack, it becomes very bad sharply and it seems now that something will happen. The heart sometimes freezes, severe weakness, cold sweat on the body, dizziness. A typical start of a panic attack, but without the climax stage when everything gets out of control. It can last an hour, waves that roll up and recede. What is the actual question, since the beginning of the cancellation, I had no thoughts of thinking about panic attacks, that is, even when it is very bad, my brain is not up to it. And now it resembles the restoration of the brain, various hormones or something is getting better in the head, from which it becomes so strong and then abruptly passes. It's a little hard to explain. But still, maybe someone had similar symptoms that appeared 8-10 months after the last dose and how is this passage