Tranquilpeace: nortriptyline / Pamelor for migraine nearly destroyed me

[Tranquilpeace]

Hello all, I appreciate all of you coming out and putting your lives out here for help and to help others, it's a beautiful thing and I know there are people out there probably worse off then me.

 

But I am here after 7 days off nortriptyline for migraine. The backstory is I was diagnosed with Hemiplegic Migraines after an ER.

 

My neurologist put me on nortriptyline, 10 mg for a week, 20mg for a week and then 30mg for a week. I am and always have been against these medications because of the horror stories

 

But out of complete panick I began taking the medication. During the 10 mg I'd get light headed, I would loose feeling of limbs and developed awful nightmares. But I toughed it out.

 

I began 20mg. Half way through 20 MG the nightmares were undescribable. I began to have insomnia, began to have a hard time dealing with and processing any violence  gore or anything of that nature. (I am an officer so this is a major problem) I have never had PTSD nightmares or anything like that and have always talked openly about things I have seen. This was super out of character for me.

 

I then began having sever anxiety and inability to sleep. I made it through 20mg and started 30mg.(my over all time in the medication is about a month maybe a little less) I got hit with absolute detachment, I am a very loving caring and passionate husband and father. I have 1 year daughter who was the very source of everything beautiful to me. I also have 2 other boys and one on the way. I lost the feeling and emotion for everyone. I woke up and felt scared and began intrusive thoughts due to a Crime tv show where a man murdered his wife. I became terrified of my thoughts afraid I was loosing my mind and becoming my evil. Afraid I would hurt the people I love and adore the very most. I even would be at work and see random people and think "God what if I lost it none of these people even know I'm loosing my mind and could hurt them." Of course I am then flooded with life crippling fear of my thoughts as they are dead against everything inside of me and everything that drives me to protect innocent lives 25/7 of everyday of my life. Even to a point where suicide was allowed to creep into my mind. Where I thought "I'll off myself before I ever let myself harm anyone" and then thought becomes a terrifying intrusive thought I have to work past. It was living in hell literally.

 

I messaged my neurologist with no response. I was so terrified I immediately stopped the medication and have been off for 7 days now.

 

The intrusive thoughts are not as persistant and the hardcore depression from those thoughts isn't as consistent. 

 

Now my biggest problem is I fall asleep to awake with gripping fear and anxiety unsure of what I am even afraid of. 

 

I have moments where I feel like myself where I feel loving caring and compassionate again. Where I see my beautiful baby girl and see a perfect world. To then suddenly fall back into pure anxiety fear and agitation.  I can let thoughts flow again for the most part except during the anxiety attacks and slip into a depressive state.i want to be clear I don't hear any voices anything twlling me to do anything. It is literally just intrusive images thoughts deprived from the deepest fears I have

 

 

This is not me, has never been me, and is nothing I have ever delt with before. It was 100% the medication. Which I now regret so whole heartedly and look back thinking wtf was I doing actually believing a tryciclic antidepressant would be good for migraine and not cause more harm then good especially knowing I am not have not ever been depressed anxious or suffered intrusive thoughts before.

 

There are times I feel like I'm going to loose control and am freaking out. I take fioricet for migraine attacks and this places me into a very normal state due to the butalbital calming my nerves. But when it ends it's back with a vengeance and harder then before. I don't want to rely on it 

 

I don't trust my neurologist or going to an ER where I work because after this I will never allow another psychotropic drug to touch my brain again. Also am dead afraid of them trying to convince me and diagnose me with other illnesses I don't have and have never had. Since I am this far re-instituting is out of the question and no way do I want to risk the power it had over me when taking it. I am far to afraid of that. And to start all of this over again is a he** no for me 

 

 

I was told stopping cold turkey wouldn't be an issue. But clearly that's wrong. I have made it this far, and to an extent I don't know if it's my mind or reality but the days seem to be getting better and better and easier to deal with. I do have sudden onset attacks especially after napping or sleeping and they hit hard. But I manage to ride the absolute terror out. 

 

I will deal with migraines. I don't care about them anymore after this. I just want myself back, to feel my daughter's beautiful heart and love. To wrestle around with my boys without intrusive thoughts of loosing control of myself. And to look at my wife with the pure addoration I have always been filled with when even looking in her direction.

 

I want to be normal me again. 

 

How long does this process take? What can I do to help myself? Will my brain and nervous system recover? And why did this happen to me???  Feel like a monster.

My neurologist said this will pass within a few weeks. Part of me believes her because I feel like I have made progress but then I am also afraid I am just becoming numb to the intense fear the situation has given me.

I have seen so many stories of people being stuck for months and years after a run like this and am terrified. Any advice help or reassurance will be so much appreciated. 

 

Thank you for reading this and responding to me

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Tranquilpeace]

I figured I'd post an update.  As the days go by I do seem to get a bit better. more control of my thoughts, better ability to dismiss the random thoughts we all get instead of attaching to them so harshly. They are also less frequent.

 

Nightmares and insomnia are as bad as ever. Anxiety and fear depression and what I would classify as what I now understand to be hypomania are my biggest challenges. That and just emotional blunting and feeling detached. I miss my emotions my passion and love that drive me as the man I am.

 

I have now reviewed the windows and waves portion of this site and believe I totally understand that now and fully relate. I have moments where I feel me normal and can eat. Followed by harsh waves of completely down. Even had a full day of feeling like me when I received my Botox therapy (what I will use to treat my migraines from now on period amen)

 

But the waves are harsh to say the least. I also wish I had known about tapering it's importance and how these medications ACTUALLY WORK. Instead of trusting my neurologist and going cold turkey.

 

I am so far along in the process (9 days I believe) that I don't want to reinstate the nortriptyline. But if I had known tapering and it's importance I would of done so and probably actually never would of ran the risk of using this medication at all. But my neurologist said it wasn't a big risk or issue and the dosage was so "pathetically" low that I wouldn't have to worry about any serious consequences.

 

But in reading many stories on this site and educating myself on these medications 30, 20, and even 10mg is significant dosages and it doesn't really appear that duration on the medication seem to matter at all. I wish I had known all of that.

 

This is the hardest battle I have ever faced in my life and I NEVER should of had to go through it. But I'm battling and fighting like hell with all my might to get through this awful experience.

 

If these medications have helped anyone I am happy for them. But my God I pray no one makes the mistake I did. And you should most definitely find an alternative treatment to your migraines vs these kind of medications! The risk far out weighs the reward. And your migraines are something you physically can deal with. Fighting in your own mind is another beast 

 

I wll till respond to anyone who writes back on here and I appreciate you all so very much. I hope I am using this application properly and if I am not I am very sorry.

 

God bless everyone. And though you may not be religious I pray you feel Christs hand during this journey. I never knew how dark of days people with these medications faced until I am now going through it myself. I am so sorry and I wish you all so much love and peace

[manymoretodays]

Hi there Tranquilpeace, and welcome,

Yes it sure does sound like you had a adverse reaction to the nortriptyline.  I don't think a reinstatement would have been a good idea in your case, where you had so many symptoms while on the drug.

I think this topic best applies to what you have described happening:

*Immediate adverse reactions to an antidepressant or within a few dose? How long for recovery? (click on the underlined passage, and make sure to start with the first post in topic)

Your experience was with more than a few doses, you had 3 weeks with increased doses at weekly intervals.  It does explain what happened nicely though, what to expect, and what to avoid in the future as well.

 

Unfortunately the list of side effects/adverse reactions just touches on what you have experienced.

You can scroll down to side effects to see:  Nortriptyline: Uses, dosage, and side effects. Drugs.com

Some of what you described was in the "let your doctor know" category and you did.  Unfortunate that they overlooked it.

 

As far as the aftermath, and WD like symptoms now......you can find your symptoms in the PDF of Dr. Glenmullen's withdrawal symptoms checklist

Take a look. 

Excellent that you ARE seeing some improvement.

On 10/22/2022 at 8:38 PM, Tranquilpeach said:

I take fioricet for migraine attacks and this places me into a very normal state due to the butalbital calming my nerves. But when it ends it's back with a vengeance and harder then before. I don't want to rely on it 

 

Yours is complicated by the migraines and your treatment for that.  Have you heard back from the neurologist?  And did they believe you.  I hope so.   Your pre-existing migraines aren't something that we are equipped to deal with.

 

Were you taking any butalbital while you took the Amitriptyline?  Just wondering.  As there could have been a drug interaction at play.

I do see that it is a barbituate, a CNS(central nervous system) depressant, and a controlled substance to boot.  And not a first line treatment for migraines.  

 

And found a couple things on a google search.  It's not one of the usuals that we deal with.

Drug Bank Online: Butalbital: Uses, Interactions, Mechanism of Action

Wikpedia- butalbital

What are the dangers of butalbital addiction?(unfortunately from a addiction treatment center)

 

I would, if it was me, tread very cautiously with any more use of another psychotropic(active on the CNS) agent now.  That butalbital is short acting, but it's possible your body is craving more after the level of it drops.......not a great drug for you right now.  And if you've been on it regularly for ? 2 weeks or one month, you might-I would consider a taper off of it as well, utilizing a hyperbolic taper:

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

And the Botox treatment?  That is totally outside of anything we deal with.  Is it just injected somewhere locally? 

 

That leaves you with non-drug coping really, you could try the magnesium  or omega3(fish oil).  And there are links to the topics on those in the first topic about adverse reactions.  Start low with trying only one at a time.  Increasing the dose to recommended dosages slowly, while observing.   You will have to proceed slowly now, as you are quite sensitized.   Many members do find these calming to our nervous systems.

 

More coping helps:

 

Techniques for Managing An Adverse Drug Reaction or Cold Turkey Withdrawal

Early morning waking-managing the cortisol spike  what you are describing in your narrative sure sounded like cortisol spikes, so hopeful something helpful will stand out here that you can begin to apply

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms (again, get to the first post to read that, and then there is a wonderful indexed list in the first post as well, as to all kinds of coping helps that don't utilize any drugs)

 

I am so happy to read you ARE having Windows or some symptoms have improved.  That bodes well.  Yet complete healing and recovery may still be a few months out or more.

 

****Please summarize your drug history in your signature  (follow the instructions in the link, list all drugs recent and in the past used, with date, names of, and doses if remembered)  This is different from what you gave us confidentially on registration.

 

And be safe.  Hoping you do have some good ground support now to hold your hand.

 

This is your introduction/journal page where you have now introduced yourself to the community, you can ask questions here regarding your case, give updates, and just keep a record of your journey.  Only one Introduction topic per member please.  It sounds like you've looked around a bit.  You'll see other forums outside of the Introduction forum from the home page.  This is YOUR page now.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

manymoretodays(mmt)

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Tranquilpeace]

@manymoretodays

 

Thank you so much for your reply and information. This site is a God sent and all of you here are absolutely incredible people. 

 

This has been a brand new journey for me (one I definitely could of lived without) but in my career I have seen experienced and delt with many people with mental health issues and crisis and this has opened my eyes to a terrifying thought of just how many of those people weren't lying when they said "the medication did this to me." And God honest truth it hurts my heart to a point I cannot describe. The research in the western hemisphere I have come to find out is just not there when it comes to these drugs and after my experience that is absolutely beyond horrific to understand and acknowledge.

 

As far as some of your questions for me go. I have had migraines for a very very long time. Especially after military service. When you reach my diagnosis (Hemiplegic Migraines) it is extremely rare form of migraine and can be very debilitating. The hospital visit refer to in my introduction was the mimicking of a stroke. 

 

This is important to explain to you now because for treatment of migraines Drs really don't understand the science behind what takes place in the brain. And majority of main treatments neurology uses are "off label" treatments. To what I now figure is an excuse to say experimental treatments. Insurance doesn't allow you to go straight to Botox therapy. Which from what I read is the most effective and safest treatment to this date. And yes it works by injecting the toxin into selected muscle groups on the face head neck and shoulders to block nerve receptors. 

 

But to get to that point you have to try 2 preventative measure medications and fail. For me it was topamax (an anti seizure drug) which neurologically literally made me forget my own name and the nortriptyline which as you know brought me here to you all for help.

 

The fioricet is not a daily consumption for me thank God cause from what I understand it works as benzos work in increasing GABA in the brain. I only take it for acute treatment or onset of migraines, so thank God I don't think my nervous system has become a custom to having it. Although I must admit during severe severe anxiety when my intrusive thoughts were there most horrific and terrifying I did use it to shut off my nerves and it worked to take off the edge. But I haven't taken one in about 3 days now because I researched it and it's negative side effects which scared the hell out of me knowing what benzos do to so many people even though this is are barbiturate, fro  what I understand their functionality is identical and one replaced the other ethically.

 

I appreciate all of your research in your response. I am very grateful there are people such as yourself that care so much. The migraines aren't something I came here for. I just wanted to describe why I was placed on nortriptyline in the first place.

 

Much of the nortriptyline is my fault because I didn't research it I just trusted my neurologist and she mentioned nothing of the black box warning or things to look at for. My wife was the one that noticed the beggining if my negative reaction.

 

Which started off mainly as only what I understand now to be onset of akathesia. I would be in bed and shaking my legs none stop, in the kitchen rocking back and forth, sitting down shaking my foot etc. And then of course it developed into all the more severe side effects especially the 3rd day being off of the drug.

 

Right now it is much easier than the onset thank God. Because the first 7 days I couldn't see in front of me. There was no light at the end of the tunnel and it was as if I was alive but not even in my body, like disconnected from reality going through motions with 0 emotion or even grasp that I was even living if that makes any sense at all.

 

The windows and waves aspect of this stuff is very accurate. The intrusive thoughts are getting quieter and easier to dismiss away but are still there and are still triggered day to day which causes some severe downs and anxiety. This is because they literally were about the people I love the most in life. 

 

Things I have never imagined or thought of from suicide to hurting others. Just absolutely crazy things out of character and morality completely for me. And it robbed me of all emotion passion and love. The emotions for the first time since about half way through the drug were back for a brief time period last night with my wife and children where I felt like me, the passion emotion and pure love. Which was such a huge relief because I have been afraid those things that drive me and make me me would never return.

 

However last night I also had a brief period of deja Vu followed by intense fear for some reason and then followed by confusion. Which was new for me and a new symptom. I don't know if that's common during the healing process for anyone. But it almost felt like a misfire of my nervous system 

 

Anyway, I will do a signature later today. I apologize for the information but I wanted to post as much as I can and respond as much as I can just in case there is someone else out there who is like me, placed on a drug like this and smashed with utter controlling fear because of a reaction to an experimental treatment to an illness they have. Because for me it was very difficult not finding anything about it when trying to find answers. Especially because I was given an antidepressant without suffering from any of the usual illnesses it was "designed" for.

 

Maybe they will find this thread and find comfort in knowing that they aren't alone. I can't be the only one this has happened to. Especially if across the western hemisphere they use this class of drugs as "off label" treatments. Thinking about that more and more over the past two weeks is gut wrenching

 

Again thank you so much, there aren't words to describe what it means to me for you to of taken the time to respond to me

. And God bless you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Faure]

This is absolutely heart breaking. I am so sad to hear what has happened to you. It sounds like you are experiencing the windows and waves pattern of healing and my understanding of that is the windows will gradually increase and the waves decrease. It also sounds like you are already experiencing improvement. Let us all hope that it doesn’t take too much longer for the symptoms to die down and you can get back to loving your beautiful family without fear of anything else. Please do keep us posted as to how you are. 

[Tranquilpeace]

@Faure

 

Thank you for your kind words. It has been one crazy journey to say the very least. 

 

If I had been educated in these drugs before the suggested treatment or warned about the potential harmful side effects I definitely would have refused the medication and delt with my migraines.

 

I am very upset with how the health care system is and that I was put through such a gut wrenching experience.

 

But the far the most frightening experience of my life. It is crazy how it takes over your brain and nervous system and just changes everything.

 

Day by day thank God, I am getting better. The thoughts get a bit quieter and easier to dismiss and the panick and anxiety get a little softer. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. But this drug put me into the darkest days I have ever experienced in my life.

 

And I had no idea what these drugs are capable of. Any time I sleep and wake up it is extremely difficult still. And when the waves hit they hit hard and I'm right back to that dark place afraid of my own mind. But now that I have read through all this information and understand it's the medicine it's not me, I am a bit calmer.

 

The magnesium and omegas are unbelievable. They help a great great deal. I am in utter disbelief (after all the research I have done over the course of the onset of these symptoms) at the way the health care system in the US tosses these drugs out like nothing without any formal information given to patients and almost how the ignore the adverse reactions so many experience. 

 

Not being alone and knowing a place like this is here  is very comforting, but my heart hurts at the thought of how many people have been put down this path..

 

I wish you well on your journey and I wish you speedy recovery and healing in your journey 

 

 

[Faure]

Hello, it is excellent news that each day is a little easier. It sounds like your brain and body are slowly but surely recovering. Treat yourself very carefully - when you start to feel you can do more, don’t do too much as overdoing it / stress can bring on a wave. And definitely don’t vigorously exercise, drink alcohol or take any other substances. Your nervous system has had a huge shock, is very sensitive and may well remain so for a while. 
 

Yes, the world of pharmaceuticals and so called “medical health professionals” have a lot to answer for. Things are very slowly changing here in the UK but I’m afraid in the US where it is such big business it seems it is a different matter. It is a disgrace and, as you say, so upsetting for everyone affected. 
 

I wonder whether one thing that might come out of this for you is that when you come across people in your line of work who say “the meds have done this to me” you will be able to understand, perhaps offer solace and even tell them about this website. You may be able to help a lot of people that way, when you are well enough, of course. 
 

Re sleep, you may be experiencing a cortisol spike upon awakening. This hormone naturally rises in the morning and when we’re ok we don’t have a problem. But when we are sensitised the light can cause anxiety to rise. Using an eye mask to block out the light is a useful thing - just put it on once you start to wake up and you might find it helps keep you a bit calmer. 
 

Thank you for your good wishes, I’m pleased to say things have taken a big step forward for me recently, I’m starting to feel I am getting my life back.  I hope it isn’t too much longer before you too feel that way. 

[manymoretodays]

Okay, glad you are finding some good support here Tranquilpeace, and a place to voice it all.

Don't forget your signature!  Thank you. (just scroll on up to find the link to that topic as to how to do one)

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Tranquilpeace]

@Faure

 

Congratulations on the steps forward! Every step forward is a huge win. 

 

I have been doing an unGodly amount of research regarding this entire form of treatment and it's frightening and sad to find that nearly no one else escapes these drugs without consequence. And even sadder that the medical field tends to ignore everyone that goes through this. When the evidence is unbearably overwhelming. For my career to are absolutely right about that aspect. I have spent many night crying lately thinking about how many people have faced the intrusive violent thoughts and the self harm thoughts such as I have and then lost their lives due to them literally having no control of their brains or nervous system after these meds did their work to them.

 

It took me to the darkest place I have ever seen..never had I even imagined a person could that way until I was there.

 

I really appreciate all your advise on sleep and working out etc. I have learned the hard way that tiny changes such as a regular cup of coffee can absolutely obliterate progress and induce a wave.

 

As of now my battle is the intrusive thoughts and nightmares. They trigger the rest of the the symptoms. But the physical withdrawal is finally over and I can eat again which I am thankful for. The intrusive thoughts were getting quieter and easier to dismiss but when waves come, I am right back there freaking out over them.

 

Then a new battle I face is concern over when the thoughts aren't so bothersome is "wait am I getting comfortable with them? am I planning to act on them? Is that my only way of relief?"

 

Which of course is just another intrusive thought and causes the panick etc.

 

They are becoming less frequent and easier to dismiss but they are the hardest part of the entire situation and actually were the symptom that caused me to reflect and realize what this medicine did to me. And they were the worst symptom, they caused majority of the pain and fear by far. 

 

Sad but after all this research I have found so many people suffering from this kind of psychological reaction. To the medication or it's cessation. And most are put on another. And I truly wonder how many of those people if they could of toughed it out (as I am now) would of ended up healing and not having to relive it's torment 

 

I am also terribly saddened at the thought of how many people didn't realize it was intrusive thoughts, and did things they never other wise would have 

 

Sorry for the late reply, I hope you are still stepping forward! I am much better than when I initially posted this, that's for sure! And that's something I am very thankful for. But it's still a long road ahead. No one believes me when I tell them I am still suffering from side effects from the cold turkey! They base the logic off of "you were only on it for a month and a half, it's out of your system you shouldn't have problems anymore." Drives me nuts cause they have no idea! And the evidence definity states otherwise 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tranquilpeace]

Good afternoon everyone,

 

Just wanted to post some information. I take daily supplements and always have they are the following 

Men's multivitamin, viatimin C, vitamin D(I work graveyard), a joint multi vitamin(use to lift a lot of weights before W/S), a greens supplement, magnesium, and omega 3s.

 

I haven't changed that routine through W/S simply because it's what I have always done and I don't want to throw off my system even further than it already is.

 

WIth that being I had spoken to a friend of mine who stopped an SSRI after suddenly freaking out that there was a bomb in his car. He suggested Tumeric and advised it was extremely calming on the nerves. I attempted to use it and for about 4 days intrusive thoughts increased greatly so that will not be something utilize until my nervous system is fully healed again. So for those who may also venture this way proceed with caution! 

 

I have been utilizing Epsom salts and essential oils ALOT. They do help greatly just to calm down. 

 

Not to sure how other feel about these things or how they have utilized them. But hopefully the next person that goes searching for answers can find this thread and use the information accordingly 

 

 

[Faure]

Hello, thank you for sharing what you have found. Supplements are often raised here and I copied this information for you:

 

Quote

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

BASIC SUPPLEMENT TOOLKIT

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

And do make sure to seperate the calcium and magnesium by 2 hours, or they cancel out each others effects.

 

Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, and diet

 Hope you are continuing to improve ☺️

[manymoretodays]

Thanks Tranquilpeace - nice job on your signature,

Here's our topic specific to:

Curcumin or turmeric

you could certainly post your own experience with turmeric there, and good to have it here with the rest of your history too

Interesting as I am taking some now, and have been for a couple of months.  I seem to be tolerating it well.  I'm quite a ways out from acute WD, or early sensitization.  Still......I proceed with caution, and always start low in dosage and observe........as I believe I may continue with some sensitivities now.  More than my pre-drug, pre WD state anyway.

 

Thanks Faure.  Great having aboard and mentoring now!

 

In addition once one gets to S and SC, you can do a search in the top search box for a specific topic, before starting a new one.

Also, I often just type in survivingantidepressants.org and then the topic I am looking for, or to see if we have one from my main browser.

More on searches here:  How to Do a Site Search on SurvivingAntidepressants

 

 

Glad you have found some calming techniques and options that you tolerate Tranquilpeace.

 

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Tranquilpeace]

@manymoretodays @Faure @Altostrata

 

thank you guys for your support and conversation I can't express how much I appreciate you guys I really can't. @manymoretodays @Faurethank you guys for the guidance and advice the sensitivity is so crazy to me to like everything even my favorite candy (Snickers) can send me for a ride. The roller coaster is brutal 

 

I wanted to post on this thread the following so the next person using this medication that's experiences what I have can find this and not be so fearful 

 

the intrusive evil thoughts(that lead to suicidal thoughts, I felt I had no choice but to think of this in order to "save" those I love, and then it turned ontop of the pain of withdrawal) non of which I wanted to do and thank God I was able to identify that they were intrusive thoughts. They dissipate slowly

But surely, they become easier to ignore or dismiss as time in withdrawal lengthens. They come randomly and I think just from the fear of them they lead to other thoughts that stack up, it happens. But I have been able to work though it. 

 

The more I look back the more I realize how bad the reaction was and how sudden it happened. I just wasn't educated to recognize them. Uncontrollably smiling, getting lost and confused suddenly, loosing feeling in a limb tingling racing heart etc. All of which were being identified by my Neuro as silent migraines. They were not, they were part of the more "rare" side affects of nortriptyline but you have to educate yourself on it. Ontop of that about 2 weeks into the medication the profuse sweating heat insomnia and inability to properly process the correct reactions to bad videos or tragic movies etc.

 

then within 2 days of being off the medication it was being hit by a truck falling into a very dark abyss of violent thoughts (scariest part is it is directed toward those you hold most dear, fight through it, it will pass, it's not you or who your character is it is the medication shocking your brain and body) you will feel like your on I guess a bad trip, like someone putting a movie in front of you with you doing evil things. You have no control over it. But you can get past it I promise. The physical stuff I had A-Z to include anesthesia which I have come to understand is a source of the above. I felt like I was screaming inside 

 

now that I am now 30 days off the medication. The symptoms now are hypersensitivity and emotional numbness which is what brings me down. Because I love my wife and children so much they are my life I know they are I know how I truly feel, but as of right now I'm waiting for my nervous system to take that invisibility cloak off my emotions so I can have them again. Mainly just agitation and sadness is all I feel I have windows where I feel somewhat normal just absent of love if that makes sense but I know it will come back. My other issue is feeling so disgusted and guilty for the thoughts I encountered during this time, and I think that guilt and FEAR is now dominantly what causes intrusive thoughts now. I don't know how accurate that is but I do feel that I am so afraid to experience them again that randomly my brain goes "oh hey we are freaking out so let me toss this and that at you"

 

the last thing I wanted to add is I spoke to a psychologist (an old friend of mine from when I worked in the correctional system) I ran this experience by him and he was pretty upset about the Neuro and the way she advised me and handled it. He also advised to venture with caution because the system would like to do one of two things diagnose with bipolar disorder being "unmasked" by the medication or harm OCD being "unmasked". Neither of which I believe to be true. It's part of the windows and waves healing process after being so shocked with the Neuro chemistry change.

 

I encourage everyone to utilize medical care when they need it absolutely. But I want you to know you're not alone and this is something that happens factually. It's important to remember that just because you may be treated with an antidepressant as off label (none depressive, anxiety etc such as myself) doesn't mean that the way they work changes. You wre still subject to the same affects

 

anyways lastly I tagged @Altostratabecause this site is very much a God sent and I thank God so much for it's existence, I hope the entire world gains knowledge of this place so they can find some peace and process to heal and make it past these times. I don't know how often you hear this but thank you so much and God bless you in every way possible. I have never gone down such a dark and painful terrifying road before. If you hadn't of created this site who knows where I would be right now, and that big pharma rabbit whole is very very terrifying to me now that I have experienced this. This site you have created is saving so many lives and people it's unreal and I truly whole heartedly believe that. Thank you so much for everything. You and everyone on here. Just taking the time to come here is so incredible.

 

Lastly for those looking for some was or release (I couldn't listen to music or anything like that, and my family I was terrified of because of intrusive thoughts) I used melatonin to great affect then the omega fatty acids and magnesium is very literally so effective. When you are triggered and in that bad place. The sun does absolute wonders, even though I wanted to just hunker down and sleep. The sun the sun the sun! The other thing I found effective was from another member in here who used rose tea, it works wonders. And for me I make a cocktail tea if probiotic peach, sleepy time tea(chamomile) and tension Tamer with some honey. 

 

It has by far been the best during onset of those waves. The other is a hot bath, Epsom salt, essential oils (all the calming eucalyptus ashwaganda CBD and hemp etc) none of which alter your mind, they relieve inflammation and they helped me a great deal.

 

Thank you all, and I'm praying for everyone to have a safe and effective recovery from these medications 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Faure]

What a beautiful post. I’m sorry it was necessary for you to find us, but thank you so much for taking the time to write it ❤️

Edited November 17, 2022 by Faure

[Tranquilpeace]

So I definitely hit a wave today. It's now been over a month cold turkey from the nortriptyline.

 

I'm feeling pretty down today, but I'll make it. 

 

I wanted to ask about the intrusive thoughts, does that side effect ever go away? That is literally my biggest battle and the worst part to this entire process.

 

I have noticed after the nortriptyline my visual disturbances are way more than they were before, floaters, stars, strings in my vision all the time.  I also noticed over the past coue weeks my legs and feet are in so much pain 24/7 after stopping the medication, it's almost unearable. And for the course of the past week, muscles are twitching all over my body. I do t know if that's a normal thing.

 

But I know it's from the nortriptyline 

[Iman]

@Tranquilpeace

 

Hey there my dearest Tranquilpeace So sweet of you to inquire after us.

 

I'm doing well with pretty much the same symptoms you just mentioned. They come and go and I merely observe them and myself from above and wait for my brain to eventually do the trick and award me with peace and equilibrium once again.

 

There're times (pretty limited and brief though) that I become symptomless like my old self and there's nothing sweeter than this, I'd wait however long for this to happen and become a regular default for me.

 

I trust the day will come that all of us will overcome this monster and come out victorious with so much light to share with our friends and loved ones. BTW, as for the chemical depression we all experience from either withdrawing from the drug or taking the drug itself, the solution I've found which pretty much relieves much of the unwanted depression is to apply a handful of BLACKSEED OIL on my chest and stomach and massage well until it gets absorbed into my body. It's amazing how nice and accurate this technique works in suppressing depression and uncontrolled sadness. Once again can't emphasize the healing power of only a spoonful of rose water and milk thistle enough.

 

I hope you're holding up well my dude. I'm so delighted and overjoyed that your symptoms are getting less severe and that you're seeing yourself more in control. Better days are yet to come, rest assured. 🌷👍✌️ Take care and stay strong.

[manymoretodays]

How are you doing Tranquilpeace?  It's been awhile.  Updates?

[Tranquilpeace]

@manymoretodays

 

Hello, I apologize for going MIA for such an extended period of time. I had alot going on with life.

 

I have been doing fairly well until lately. I am approaching th 1 year mark since the ordeal began and I think that has to do with this wave and funk I am hitting. Started about a week ago, intrusive thoughts anxiety and insomnia came flying back in strong as ever before.

 

The distress and anxiety from the intrusive thoughts is what gets me. And it comes out of no where so then there I go back down the panick path freaking put and looking dor answers I have already found and went down. But I go back to the "something must be wrong with me, I'm bipolar, I'm schizophrenic, oh my God!!" Etc. Then hit those points where you take a step back and breathe.

 

But for the most part I had a huge huge window of life almost back to normal. The nature of my job can make it difficult because the fear I have of the intrusive thoughts coming back is always something I deal with even when I am feeling normal. I tend to be able to get through it and blow it off like a normal person does most of the time. But this past week and a half the fear of the intrusive thoughts has gripped around me again and because of that I get so afraid of my own mind that I literally cause the thoughts if that makes sense.

 

It's a battle I don't think ill ever understand

 

 

But thank God for you and the guys and gals here. Always reminding me this was never the case before the meds. Just sucks how long their affects linger on us.

 

Thank you for checking in!! If you have any advise, as always I am 100 percent all in on listening to anything you have to say

[manymoretodays]

Hi Tranquilpeace,

On 9/13/2023 at 10:25 PM, Tranquilpeace said:

The distress and anxiety from the intrusive thoughts is what gets me. And it comes out of no where so then there I go back down the panick path freaking put and looking dor answers I have already found and went down. But I go back to the "something must be wrong with me, I'm bipolar, I'm schizophrenic, oh my God!!" Etc. Then hit those points where you take a step back and breathe.

 

But for the most part I had a huge huge window of life almost back to normal. The nature of my job can make it difficult because the fear I have of the intrusive thoughts coming back is always something I deal with even when I am feeling normal. I tend to be able to get through it and blow it off like a normal person does most of the time. But this past week and a half the fear of the intrusive thoughts has gripped around me again and because of that I get so afraid of my own mind that I literally cause the thoughts if that makes sense.

It does sound like you have some good coping in place......to step back and breathe.

I've been there, convinced I had to have something going on with a serious label to it.  It certainly took me time to undiagnose and especially amid the mainstream......still......so sold on Mental Illness and pharmacological cures.

 

Fear of the fear.  Intrusive thoughts.  How's your meditation and mindfulness coming along?  Honest, having some practices, done regularly helps.  Even if it's listening to an audio that takes you out of your head space and thoughts.

 

Withdrawal causing repetitive or intrusive thoughts, rumination, and increased panic?

 

And:

We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques to help get through tough times.

 

Understanding what is happening helps us to not get caught up with the second fear, or fear of the fear.  This happens when we experience sensations in our body and because we don't understand them we are scared of them and then start to panic.

 

This document has a diagram of the body explaining what happens in the body when we become anxious:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

Audio FEMALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Audio MALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

Dr Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety and learned and taught ways of coping.  There are videos available on YouTube.

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

 

Resources:  Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg:  Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)

  

On 8/22/2019 at 4:44 AM, Sassenach said:

  On 4/27/2017 at 12:03 PM, brassmonkey said:

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

 

 

 

Thanks for the update.  Hoping the worst of this Wave passes soon, or is decreasing in intensity now.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by manymoretodays