Utek: hello - attempting to get off mirtazapine

[Utek]

Utek (Jeff) Hello new friends: Attempting to get off Mirtazacrap

 

Hello,

I will try to make this as coherent as possible. By my estimation, my brain is functioning at around 50-60% of what was normal. But that is a vast improvement over just a couple of weeks ago.

 

First, I would like to say one thing about mirtazapine. If it were not for the next day brain fog, sleepiness, fatigue, dizziness, lethargy, and worsening bph symptoms, and weight gain, it would be a pretty good sleeping pill.

 

The last couple of years have been difficult for me and my parents, as I know it has been for the rest of the world also. But I really handled it like a superstar. My Dad was in the last stages of dementia, and he got covid. My mother has a mild case of MS, so I had my hands full. Being an only child put all the responsibility on me. My Dad died in March, 2022. I then decided to focus all of my efforts on the health and happiness of my Mother. We had a couple good weeks.

 

Due to a cascading series of negative health events for my Mother involving afib, paranoid delusions, and 2 lengthy hospital stays, I rapidly lost the ability to sleep. On August 2, I was sleeping about an hour a night. I had nurses helping me with my Mother, but I still had loads of responsibilities. I was barely functional. It took great effort just to write a check. (From what I know now, my cortisol levels must have been off the chart.)

 

After a month of little to no sleep, my best friend drove me to the Emergency Room at the VA. They gave me trazodone and hydroxyzine. I also got appointments for primary care and the psych doctor a week later. The first night I got 6 hours sleep with the trazodone, but felt horrific the next day. I did not mess with the hydroxyzine. After the first night, I only got around 3 hours sleep.

 

Through some kind of miracle (“Jesus take the wheel”) I was able to drive myself the VA the next week to see the psych doctor. She gave me mirtazapine and Buspar. I sort of freaked out, because I remembered we gave my Dad a low dose of mirtazapine to help with his appetite. I took a Buspar that day but it made me so dizzy that I never took another one. After researching Mirt online, I decided to stick with the trazodone.

 

Trazodone just did not work for me. I was only sleeping around 3 hours a night. I reluctantly switched to Mirtazapine a week later. The first night on mirtazapine, I slept over six hours but felt like the walking dead the next day. After the first night, I could only sleep a couple of hours on mirtazapine, and I still had the next day hangover symptoms. This is when things really got bad for me. I am a lover of life but I didn't want to live anymore. I was just so tired. The next 5 days were bad, and dark, and then suddenly I began to sleep 6 to 8 hours on the mirtazapine. I still felt like dog crap the next day, but I decided to fight as hard as I could to live.

 

The first night that I was able to sleep with mirtazapine, I decided to taper to get off it. I had been spending most of my time studying and implementing the free cbti online course the VA offers. I tapered from 15mg to 10mg and still slept good. You can imagine how happy I was. Then the next night I did not sleep at all. So I went back to 15mg and started researching how to get off this crap. I found Altostrata's article which led me to this site, and the instructions on the no harm 10% taper.

 

With my mind only functioning at around 30% capacity, all this measuring and turning the medicine into liquid was quite overwhelming. But I bought my scale and pill cutter on Amazon, and understand exactly how to do the liquid when the time comes. As of today, November 22, 2022 I am down to 12.5mg and I am still sleeping good.

 

Since I started the medicine, I have only not been sleepy 2 days. Today is one of those days, so I decided to do this intro. A few weeks ago this would not have been possible. For me the side effects of mirtazapine are truly awful. The brain fog, and fatigue are intense. This seems to improve a minuscule amount each day. A few weeks ago I was barely functional. Driving to the dentist was a monumental task. But now I can function a little better. I believe I could handle a crisis. But everything takes intense mental focus. My favorite thing in life was walking a 5 mile trail near my home. I made the full walk yesterday, but there was no pleasure. I can now watch a 30 minute sitcom, but a movie would be out of the question right now.

 

I am very grateful for this website. The information is so vital. The sleep mask and garbage bags on the windows have made a huge difference. I sleep an extra hour because of it. The supplements are helping and must say the Lactium is extremely effective for me. I am holding it in reserve for the inevitable rebound insomnia.

 

A few weeks ago, I was at the point where I did not see a light at the end of the tunnel, but I acknowledged the possibility that one might exist. Today, I see a flicker of light, and plan to fight with all my might to reach it.

 

A funny/weird side story: I am a huge Carolina basketball fan, and a couple of weeks ago, I was thinking to myself, I wonder how Carolina did last year. I did remember Roy had retired and Hubert took over. I had completely forgotten that  Carolina had a miraculous year, playing Duke in the final 4 and playing in a heart wrenching loss in the championship game. I'm not sure if this is due to the month of no sleep or the mirtazapine. And I had a hard time averaging numbers a few days ago, even thou I am a math wiz.

 

My main focus right now is to get off the mirtazapine and still be able to sleep. If anyone knows how to deal with the intense fatigue and brain fog, I would love to know. Coffee does nothing for me anymore. The mirt seems to neutralize the effects of caffeine. How insidious!

 

Many thanks to all the volunteers here, and all the advice. I will update as I continue my journey to get off mirtazapine.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by ChessieCat
added title

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  I'm very sorry for what these drugs have put you through, and what you are dealing with.  Do you have any other adverse effects besides brain fog and fatigue?  

 

Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Tapering is best done extremely slowly, and we generally taper by 10% of the current dose no more than once every 4 weeks, so that the reduction becomes exponentially smaller.

 

 Why Taper by 10% of my Dosage  

 

Tips for Tapering Mirtazapine

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms: 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Stability is really important when we are tapering off psych meds.  Please read the link about stability:

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

Here are some links about fatigue and brain fog.  

 

Search Results for Fatigue

 

Brain Fog

 

I do want to emphasize that it is important to be careful as we reduce, and if you get withdrawal symptoms after a reduction, please wait until these lessen, and you are reasonable stable for a couple of weeks before doing another reduction.  Also, be aware that we do 10% reduction of the current dose, not the original dose.  So, your next reduction would be 12.5 x 0.9 = 11.25 mg.  I'm glad that this site has been helpful to you, and the tips on insomnia have helped.  You are on the right track, and will do fine. Also, it is suggested to completely avoid alcohol and other mind altering substances, as these tend to further destabilize a  nervous system in withdrawal.  Keep us posted!

[Utek]

Thank you so much getofflex for the valuable information and links.  I have spent many hours on this site learning as much as I can.

 

I am one of those people that takes a long time for my body to become acclimated to mirtazapine.  I had severe daytime sleepiness and fatigue for many weeks after starting the drug.  Now, after three months, the daytime sleepiness is starting to go away, but still have a significant amount of fatigue, and brainfog.  I also have some dizzyness when I start to stand up.  But I am mostly functional now, which is a dramatic improvement.  Everything justs takes a bit more focus now.

 

It's hard to know what withdrawal symptoms I am having because the medicine make me feel so lousy anyway.  But I have had some feelings of agitation and depressed thoughts so I am guessing that is part of it.  I have another taper coming up soon, and I am looking forward to getting off mirtazapine and feeling like my old self again, but I'm going to take it slow and steady.  I can't risk the extreme insomnia, because over a month of little to no sleep really damaged my body.

 

Good luck to everyone in thier tapering journey.

[getofflex]

It sounds like you are on the right track.  I'm glad you are mostly functional at this time.  Yes, agitation sounds to me like a withdrawal symptom, as is depression.  

 

13 hours ago, Utek said:

I'm going to take it slow and steady.

Great approach. 

[Gigi68]

Hi Utek, I’ve read your posts and just want to let you know you are on the right track for getting off. The slow steady taper has worked for me. I started Mirtazapine at 7.5mg and had all of the problems you have mentioned plus a number of other side effects. It was the darkest time in my life. I am now at 1.47mg and almost back to feeling like my old self. As I have dropped, the side effects have slowly one by one faded away. I have just a few now. I was not expecting my sleep to improve but it has. It takes time and yes, you have a long way to go but you can do it! Hang in there!

Gigi

[Utek]

Many thanks @Gigi68 for the encouragement!  I have seen your posts around the website and I have read your introduction.  You are an inspiration.  I am so glad many of the horrible side effects of this "medicine" are improving so much for you.  For me, the drowsiness was the worst.  It felt like I just took a Benadryl all day long.  But that is getting a lot better for me.  Today, I just felt very minor fatigue and brain fog, and some minor agitation, but no depressed thoughts.

 

I have not been able to nap in the past 6 months, and I was the king of naps, lol.  But I believe they will come back like they did for you when I am at a lower dose.  It's awesome you can go mountain biking, but not so awesome about the accident.  I wish a full recovery for you and many more trips on the trail!  I love to go hiking.  It does so much for my mental and physical well being, and I believe it saved me when I was taking care of my Dad.  I am not at the point where I can drive to the mountains, hike, and drive home, but I believe I will be there sometime soon.  I am walking short trails near my house and a nearby park.  There is no pleasure like before, but I believe that will come back too.

 

The doctor gave me buspar too, but it made me extremely dizzy so I didn't take any more.  Probably a blessing.  And they had given me some trazodone and hydroxyzine.  They give this stuff out like candy, lol.  I really did not want to take anything but I was so desperate for sleep, I had to try something. 

 

Again, thanks for the encouragement, and I wish you nothing but the best in your taper, and in your life ahead.  I'll keep an eye on your tapering journey.

[Bestill]

Hi there!   I am tapering mirtazapine as well.  I am a little over a year in my taper.  Started at 11.25 and I’m at 5.4 now.  
 

If you need any support, feel free to reach out as well. Keep holding on to the light at end of your tunnel.  It’s there.  Sometimes you may feel like it’s gone but it’s not.  
 

You will get there like the rest of us are doing. Eventually, we will all be on the other side.

 

❤️❤️

[Utek]

Hello @Bestill, thank you so much for your offer of support.  I have read some of your history and  it looks like we share some common themes when it comes to mirtazapine.

 

Sometimes for me, it's hard to know where the side effects end and the withdrawal symptoms begin.  In the beginning, the 24 hours drowsiness was quite debilitating. Now, that part is way better.  I've tapered almost a third of the medicine.  I have an overall lethargy, tiredness, and fatigue.  Some days are better.  Yesterday I felt very good, but today I am a little tired.  But I can function.  I can sleep. I can drive.  I walk 2.5 miles every day.  I have some of your air hunger, but not everyday, and not for more than an hour or two.  My overall diet is very good, and I don't eat in the middle of the night anymore.  I gained 30 pounds, but I had lost 30, so I am back to even.  I don't want to gain any more.

 

Thanks again Bestill for your support, and I will keep track of your journey too.

[Hibari]

Hi @Utek

 

I'm also tapering Mirt and for me unfortunately it's the second time. 

 

I read your intro and I too have the  depressive thoughts and don't feel good on this medication.  I walk as well though some days it's not so much fun. 

 

It was good to read Gigi68's reassurance to you that the side-effects have lessened as she got lower.

 

Wishing you the best in your taper off of Mirt. 

 

Hibari 

[Utek]

Hello @Hibari, I am sorry you are having such a tough time with this drug.  I had severe side effects (mainly debilitating drowsiness and fatigue) for nearly 3 months.  And now I am adding withdrawal symptoms to the mix.  Some days I feel pretty bad, and some days I almost feel like my old self.  And many days walking is no fun, but I do it anyway because I know my body needs it.  I would love to cold turkey, but I know I can't.  I hope Gigi68 is right about the side effects improving on a lower dose.

 

I wish you nothing but the best in your taper.  We will get through this.  Better days are ahead.

[littlebird]

On 12/5/2022 at 3:35 PM, Utek said:

I had severe daytime sleepiness and fatigue for many weeks after starting the drug.  Now, after three months, the daytime sleepiness is starting to go away, but still have a significant amount of fatigue, and brainfog.

 

I had this too with this drug, plus I was waking up angrier than hell. Sleep to rage, every morning. It was awful. I didn't know it at the time (as I was also taking Seroquel and it was knocking me out through it), but Mirtazapine (which I'd been prescribed for PTSD-related issues) was making me act out my many nightmares all night. Sleep talking, which I'd never done, and fighting like crazy. No wonder I was waking up exhausted!

 

Is it possible this is happening? Are you more of an active sleeper since starting this med? I was able to get more REM sleep when I stopped taking it. Good luck to you in your journey! Glad you're here, and working with the VA. Take care!

[Hibari]

@Utek

 

I so get that temptation to go cold turkey, I think it all the time. 

 

I too try to walk pretty regularly and like you often don't enjoy it but am trying to move my body. 

 

I've been following a low histamine diet while tapering Mirt. I don't have histamine issues but was told that it can help withe potential histamine issues that Mirt presents.  

 

I've had other people on BenzoBuddies say they felt better as they got lower. Something to hold on to. 

 

Wishing you well.

 

Hibari

[Utek]

Hello @littlebird

I do have a lot of weird, creepy dreams since I have started taking Mirtazapine.  But I don't wake up angry, just very drowsy.  Now, mostly the drowsiness decreases later in the day or after some coffee.  I would get up and eat something in the middle of the night.  The hunger was incredible around 3 hours after I took it.  But since tapering, I am not as hungry any more, and I don't eat in the middle of the night.  My diet is very good and I have actually lost 2 pounds after gaining 30.

 

The VA does their best, but like most doctors, they really don't know very much about what these drugs can do, and how hard it can be to get off them.

 

Good luck to you also!

[Utek]

Hi @Hibari

 

I am starting a low histamine diet today.  I have always had allergies, but my nose is so stopped up right now.  I have been eating 3 small oranges a day, and a lot of balsamic vinegar.  I am going to stop that asap.

 

When I walk, I always have some favorite music or podcast ready to go.  I helps to divert the mind when I'm not feeling so good.  But after a cut, I have some agitation, and I don't want to listen to anything, so I just walk in silence.  There is an awesome hiking trail 5 minutes from my house, but it is a mudhole in the winter so I am walking at the park.  I put on large headphones and sunglasses and just look down.  I takes so much energy to wave to and acknowledge everyone walking by, lol.

[Hibari]

@Utek

 

I will be curious if you notice a difference eating low histamine. 

 

I live in a city so my walks are filled with sights of people and activity. I am adding a block a week to keep my activity level up. It'll been cold so I bundle up and just keep moving. 

 

I'm on my 3rd day of a cut so I feel it now and then later at about 9 or 10 days. Still figuring out my pattern. 

 

Can you tell more about how you use lectures? Is it for sleep? I have slowly been healing my sleep and getting between 3-4 hours plus micro sleep. I don't get much help from the Remeron. 

 

Hibari

[littlebird]

27 minutes ago, Hibari said:

I am adding a block a week to keep my activity level up. It'll been cold so I bundle up and just keep moving.

 

I love the idea of adding a block a week! I'll try this when walking my dog. Thank you for the idea! 

 

On 2/1/2023 at 9:43 AM, Utek said:

I put on large headphones and sunglasses and just look down.  I takes so much energy to wave to and acknowledge everyone walking by, lol.

 

We live in very different parts of the country!! I say hi and wave to people I pass, but it's unusual here. Can't stop, won't stop bringing my Midwestern friendliness to the West Coast! It's a good way to meet neighbors, and most people say hi back. Glad you're getting out and about even if it's hard! You don't owe anyone your energy, glad you're preserving it and getting out and about. Take care!

[Hibari]

2 hours ago, Hibari said:

Can you tell more about how you use lectures? Is it for sleep? I have slowly been healing my sleep and getting between 3-4 hours plus micro sleep. I don't get much help from the Remeron. 

@Utek

 

I was spell checked. The word I meant was Lactum. 

[Utek]

@Hibari

 

I got the idea for lactium from Altostrata in the sleep supplements section.

 

It is very mild, and definately will not knock you out.  I take one at bedtime, and one if I wake up in the middle of the night.

For me, I believe it worked better in the beginning and some of the effect has worn off with time.

It is a little expensive.  I'm not sure If will buy another bottle.

[Hibari]

Hi @Utek

 

Sorry for the delay in responding. 

 

Thanks for passing on the information about lactium.  I might try it. 

 

Hibari 

 

 

[Utek]

I am going to hold at 9.4mg for 6 to 8 weeks in order to get a sense of what are side effects of the medicine and what are withdrawal symptoms.  Currently having dizziness, fatigue, drowsiness, and mild to medium anxiety.  Sleep has gone from good to fair.  I am having some cortisol spikes in the morning for the first time, along with mild air hunger mostly in the morning.  Quercetin seems to help with the air hunger.  I am resigned to the reality that this is going to be a 2+ year process.  My goal is to live as normal a life as possible, and have a little bit of happiness.

[Bestill]

Gotta love those cortisol spikes.  I get them occasionally after a drop.  I find my side effects get stronger when I stabilize at a dose, so I know it’s time to continue.  They also get stronger when I drop.  It’s kind of like living a normal uncomfortable life as I have stated on my own page.  I have the air hunger all day everyday, so you have my sympathy.  Glad you found something that calms it down.  I have found what works for me as well.  The main thing is staying busy.  

 

I hope you will be able to find your pattern of what is what.  I believe you will.

 

As far as the time frame of the taper.  It seems like forever but it does go by fast.  Sometimes it feels like life seems so slow but looking back I think wow, look how far I have come already.

 

You got this!

 

❤️

[Utek]

Hi @Bestill, 

 

Thanks for checking in.  I really appreciate it.  I believe my drops have caught up with me.  I plan to hold for a little longer and figure out my baseline when steady on the drug.  And if I need to taper slower, I will do that.  I am trying to stay busy and have a routine.

 

I hope everything is going as good as possible for you. 

 

I believe we will both be off this one day and be success stories.

[Hibari]

Hi @Utek

 

I'm sorry you are feeling symptoms. 

 

I do think, and have had other share with me, that some cuts hit harder more than others.  Maybe it's a certain threshold in the brain or for other reasons.  However, this does not mean all the other cuts will be the same or that it will be harder going forward. 

 

My cut before this one was hard but this one was not as much. I think I will see different things as I move down. 

 

Your plan to stay mindful and hold till you are ready is a solid one. 

 

Wishing you well.

 

Hibari 

[Utek]

Hi @Hibari

 

Since I have been tapering almost immediately after starting this drug, I don't think I have a good baseline with being stable at a certain dose.  I want to do a good hold here to see if I can reduce some of my fatigue and dizziness.

 

I would like to focus on living a somewhat normal life instead of just struggling to survive to the next day.

 

I wish you well too Hibari, and thanks for checking in.

[Mcat]

Hello everyone, I've just signed on (please see my intro and reply to Gridley) and went looking for Mirt folk as I have a very tricky dilemma I'm hoping for help with ASAP. In short, my dosage is a hot mess, and I'm in a pickle and v. scared of returning to non-functioning severe insomnia - I had a big, demanding job as a uni lecturer and head up huge classes of students. I can't be doing that on no/little sleep and in the midst of anxiety/panic attacks. Would so appreciate hearing from others dealing with Mirt as I have to make another dosage decision tonight (my time: Sydney, Aust).

[marie123]

Hi Utek. It's a great idea to hold so you can know and experience what your baseline is. I know you are going to switch to liquid soon. If you feel stable enough then it's a good idea. It's probably more accurate. If not hold longer. I think mixing it with something like half maple syrup half water will help instead of just water. I remember when I had the compound pharmacy make it into a liquid I would shake the bottle and see all the little Mirt particles floating around. It was like a snowglobe lol. The mirtazapine was suspended so you get a more accurate dose I believe. Let me know how it goes when you switch to liquid. Marie.

[Altostrata]

On 3/4/2023 at 8:46 PM, Utek said:

I'm extremely new at all this, but I have found keeping things very stable is very important.  I tried going from 15mg to 10mg and had 100% insominia.  I have since tapered from 15mg to 9.4mg doing the 10% a month no harm taper, and I can still sleep.  Study the information on this website.  The people here are fantastic.  Good luck to you.

 

Hello, @Utek, this is so good to hear!

[Carmie]

Glad to hear that a slow taper is helping with your sleep @Utek💛