Thor123: Family Support - Coming off Olanzapine & Abilify

[Thor123]

Our family is supporting our Son as he tapers off 2.5 mg of Olanzapine and 10mg Abilify.  He has not been feeling well for about 6 weeks, sleeps a lot, and is depressed.  Doctor told him he could cold turkey the Olanzapine and drop it all together.  He went from 5 to 2.5, and in 9 days will be cutting the 2.5 in half.  Any feedback or help for how we as a family can support, and for him would be great.  He has been told by Doctors he will be on this stuff for life, and this was pretty traumatic.  It is tough for us as  family see the changes he is going through because of these drugs.  We are all looking for healthier alternatives.

[hayduke]

Welcome @Thor123.  Can your son manage their own account on the site here?

An olanzapine cut from 5 to 2.5mg is drastic.  Also, the Abilify will be a more activating drug vs the sedating effects of the olanzapine.

How long have they been on these drugs?  Please provide this information following the outline here:  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/28240-how-to-summarize-your-drug-history-in-your-signature/

 

 

Typically we recommend tapering the more activating drugs first, and dealing with the more sedating drugs second.

[FireflyFyte]

10 hours ago, Thor123 said:

Doctor told him he could cold turkey the Olanzapine and drop it all together.  He went from 5 to 2.5, and in 9 days will be cutting the 2.5 in half.

 

Sadly, Olanzapine is well known for being difficult to stop so I would recommend slowing down the taper substantially to avoid severe withdrawals. The general suggestion is to taper no more than 10% per month and some have to make smaller cuts. I am currently making 5% cuts every two weeks with Olanzapine and no withdrawal symptoms to report yet though I am very early in my tapering journey.

 

As hayduke mentioned, you might want to consider tapering the Abilify first since it is the activating drug out of the two.

[Thor123]

Thank-you.  Our Son is afraid of coming off mostly due to past experiences, and what the Mental Health told him about his only chance at recovery is through the drugs he is taking.  He believes that most of these forums are anti-drug, and this is reinforced by his Psychiatrist.  He has a good therapist who is a Psych Survivor, so he has been helping him with that side of the equation.  I did mention this site, but still resistant to join, however, as his regular GP Doctor goes through a battery test to find out what he puking and sleeping all the time, they are ruling out pretty well everything, except the possibility that the Olanzapine drop, and Abilify could be causing this.  This is my Sons second time on these meds, as he came off Abilify and Olanzapine about 2 years ago, was fine for a year, but was doing a lot of Hallucinatory causing recreational drugs that contributed to 2nd psychosis.  So, he does not believe this time around, that the same meds he was on before would be causing these side effects this time.  What do we do?

 

I will be mention this site again to him and his Therapist, and hopefully the can discuss than and learn about the process first hand.  Anybody have any idea why these drugs might be causing so much problems coming off this time around when they did not the first time.

[hayduke]

I wouldn't be pressurising him to come off them, especially as quickly as you say.  His fear will be well justified from last time!

The rapid cuts you mentioned are really concerning.  Once again, please fill out the timeline of his drug history in your signature so we can advise sensibly.

Recreational drug abuse often comes about as self medicating for trauma.  We are not qualified to give such advice but there is a fair bit of discussion and finding a good therapist across that may help.

[Thor123]

Thank-you.  He has been working with a great therapist out of Colorado that has shared experience.  We are educated on coming off slowly and walking fine line of supporting and educating at the same time as he believes his Psychiatrist that coming off fast is ok.  The Psychiatrist was going to let him drop from 5mg to Omg, so going to 2.5mg was a compromise.  

 

What is meant by Abilify being an "activating drug"?  Also, who do we go see locally to help with a tapering plan?  Getting liquids or tapering strips?  What do we do now that he is going thru was he is going thru?  Do we suggest he go up? 

[Thor123]

Will get back to you with med timelines once we speak to him and try to get him on board with this website....hoping he takes over this process, and we are supporting him as long as it takes.  He is aware of that, and understands that.  He is depressed about not being able to work, but understanding and accepting of our help right now, which we are grateful for.  We have reassured him to take as long as possible.

[FireflyFyte]

7 minutes ago, Thor123 said:

Thank-you.  He has been working with a great therapist out of Colorado that has shared experience.  We are educated on coming off slowly and walking fine line of supporting and educating at the same time as he believes his Psychiatrist that coming off fast is ok.  The Psychiatrist was going to let him drop from 5mg to Omg, so going to 2.5mg was a compromise.

 

I believed multiple psychiatrists who told me that a fast taper with Latuda was OK and found myself with extreme anxiety, SI, no appetite, elevated heart rate, and insomnia. Sadly, not many of them are savvy when it comes to a proper tapering. I am now heavily poly-drugged and it will take many years to safely get off my current medication.

 

8 minutes ago, Thor123 said:

What is meant by Abilify being an "activating drug"? 

 

Certain drugs tend to work as uppers or "activating" including Abilify and other work as downers/sedating like Olanzapine. The thought is to taper the activating drug first so the sedating drug can continue to help with sleep. 

 

11 minutes ago, Thor123 said:

Also, who do we go see locally to help with a tapering plan?  Getting liquids or tapering strips?

 

You can talk to the psychiatrist about getting the medication compounded or consider making your own liquid. Tapering strips are not available in my country so I can't talk on those.

 

13 minutes ago, Thor123 said:

What do we do now that he is going thru was he is going thru?  Do we suggest he go up? 

 

I will let a moderator comment on this as I don't want to possibly give the wrong advice.

[Thor123]

7 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

 

I believed multiple psychiatrists who told me that a fast taper with Latuda was OK and found myself with extreme anxiety, SI, no appetite, elevated heart rate, and insomnia. Sadly, not many of them are savvy when it comes to a proper tapering. I am now heavily poly-drugged and it will take many years to safely get off my current medication.

 

 

Certain drugs tend to work as uppers or "activating" including Abilify and other work as downers/sedating like Olanzapine. The thought is to taper the activating drug first so the sedating drug can continue to help with sleep. 

 

 

You can talk to the psychiatrist about getting the medication compounded or consider making your own liquid. Tapering strips are not available in my country so I can't talk on those.

 

 

I will let a moderator comment on this as I don't want to possibly give the wrong advice.

Thank-you, appreciate this.  

[Thor123]

My wife and I took part in IIPDW Conference Friday / Saturday - Withdrawal from Psychiatric Drugs.  We were able to have good conversation with our Son and he is going to watch video https://youtu.be/PSjYH044-2Q  

He is watching and is going to create his own account here.  We quickly looked at site together and trying to figure this site out together.  It is not the easiest to navigate.  We (his family), will continue to support the process and slow taper.  He is still leary of the site and why he should be here, instead of listening to his GP & Psychiatrist who were going to let him drop from 5 - 2.5 - 0 on Olanzapine.  He is starting to feel a bit better after a month of the last drop from 5  - 2.5 olanzapine.  (not puking as much and gut pain subsiding).

[Thor123]

Just now, Thor123 said:

My wife and I took part in IIPDW Conference Friday / Saturday - Withdrawal from Psychiatric Drugs.  We were able to have good conversation with our Son and he is going to watch video https://youtu.be/PSjYH044-2Q  

He is watching and is going to create his own account here.  We quickly looked at site together and trying to figure this site out together.  It is not the easiest to navigate.  We (his family), will continue to support the process and slow taper.  He is still leary of the site and why he should be here, instead of listening to his GP & Psychiatrist who were going to let him drop from 5 - 2.5 - 0 on Olanzapine.  He is starting to feel a bit better after a month of the last drop from 5  - 2.5 olanzapine.  (not puking as much and gut pain subsiding).

Where does he add signature of Med history?

 

[FireflyFyte]

56 minutes ago, Thor123 said:

Where does he add signature of Med history?

 

He can click on his name at the top right of the page -> Account Settings -> Signature (on the left hand side of the page) and on that page there is a box to write the signature and where it can be saved.

[concerned]

While your son is creating his account, I have listed some material you may find helpful:
 

Quote

Chouinard, G., Samaha, A. N., Chouinard, V. A., Peretti, C. S., Kanahara, N., Takase, M., & Iyo, M. (2017). Antipsychotic-induced dopamine supersensitivity psychosis: pharmacology, criteria, and therapy. Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics, 86(4), 189-219.

 

Lugg, W. (2022). Antipsychotic-induced supersensitivity–A reappraisal. Australian & New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry, 56(5), 437-444.

 

Framer, A. (2021). What I have learnt from helping thousands of people taper off antidepressants and other psychotropic medications. Therapeutic Advances in Psychopharmacology, 11, 2045125321991274.

 

Horowitz, M. A., Jauhar, S., Natesan, S., Murray, R. M., & Taylor, D. (2021). A method for tapering antipsychotic treatment that may minimize the risk of relapse. Schizophrenia Bulletin, 47(4), 1116-1129.

 

Read, J., & Dillon, J. (Eds.). (2013). Models of Madness: Psychological, Social, and Biological Approaches to Psychosis (Second Edition). Routledge.

 

Masino, S. A. (Ed.). (2022). Ketogenic Diet and Metabolic Therapies: Expanded Roles in Health and Disease. Oxford University Press.

 

Though I generally agree that "stimulating" medications should be tapered first, there may be an exception in this particular case. Assuming your son is able to preserve his sleep, the first two articles give credence as to why Zyprexa (olanzapine) should be tapered prior to Abilify (aripiprazole). Given the limited information you have provided, I would consider this if I were in his position. If his sleep deteriorates, I would stop tapering the Zyprexa and begin reducing the Abilify. Whatever he decides to do, please have him create an account so our moderation team can make an informed suggestion based on his history. 

 

Our founder, Altostrata [Adele Framer], wrote the third paper. Your son may find it reassuring that our tapering method is evidence-based and published in a peer-reviewed journal. The fourth article details why Surviving Antidepressants advocates for such as slow taper. The primary author, Mark Horowitz, has himself suffered from psychiatric drug dependence and withdrawal. His conclusions are based mainly on what he has observed on this forum. He and our founder have helped establish the first psychiatric practice whose sole function is to help individuals safely withdraw from antidepressants [based in Canada, see Outro]. The book, second to last, "provides an evidence-based, optimistic antidote to the pessimism of biological psychiatry." This is an excellent read, though somewhat dry. 

 

Finally, a psychiatrist from Harvard University has been using a therapeutic ketogenic diet in his practice with great success. If you are interested, here is a [podcast] he recently participated in and an article detailing its clinical efficacy (final citation, see chapter 20). The dietician firm he refers his patients to is called [Advanced Ketogenic Therapies]. It may be worth looking into. I have been doing a low glycemic index diet with moderate success. 

 

As a side note, you are wonderful for advocating for your son. My mom has been my rock through this terrible experience, and I don't know what I would do without her. This can be a slow and arduous process, but I am sure your son will recover. 

 

All the best, I hope this helps!

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by concerned
broken link

[Thor123]

On 2/18/2023 at 12:06 AM, concerned said:

While your son is creating his account, I have listed some material you may find helpful:
 

 

Though I generally agree that "stimulating" medications should be tapered first, there may be an exception in this particular case. Assuming your son is able to preserve his sleep, the first two articles give credence as to why Zyprexa (olanzapine) should be tapered prior to Abilify (aripiprazole). Given the limited information you have provided, I would consider this if I were in his position. If his sleep deteriorates, I would stop tapering the Zyprexa and begin reducing the Abilify. Whatever he decides to do, please have him create an account so our moderation team can make an informed suggestion based on his history. 

 

Our founder, Altostrata [Adele Framer], wrote the third paper. Your son may find it reassuring that our tapering method is evidence-based and published in a peer-reviewed journal. The fourth article details why Surviving Antidepressants advocates for such as slow taper. The primary author, Mark Horowitz, has himself suffered from psychiatric drug dependence and withdrawal. His conclusions are based mainly on what he has observed on this forum. He and our founder have helped establish the first psychiatric practice whose sole function is to help individuals safely withdraw from antidepressants [based in Canada, see Outro]. The book, second to last, "provides an evidence-based, optimistic antidote to the pessimism of biological psychiatry." This is an excellent read, though somewhat dry. 

 

Finally, a psychiatrist from Harvard University has been using a therapeutic ketogenic diet in his practice with great success. If you are interested, here is a [podcast] he recently participated in and an article detailing its clinical efficacy (final citation, see chapter 20). The dietician firm he refers his patients to is called [Advanced Ketogenic Therapies]. It may be worth looking into. I have been doing a low glycemic index diet with moderate success. 

 

As a side note, you are wonderful for advocating for your son. My mom has been my rock through this terrible experience, and I don't know what I would do without her. This can be a slow and arduous process, but I am sure your son will recover. 

 

All the best, I hope this helps!

 

Thank-you.  It has been a big learning curve for all of our family.  After initially blaming ourselves for not being perfect parents, we have learned that it may have played a part, and it may not have played a part.  More importantly now, we are now working towards a solution.  We have found out the hard way, that it is very difficult in Canada (a rich country), to get objective mental health options, and that these drugs are the only solution given mainstream, and if we push for alternative options, we are painted by the Psychiatrist as "not accepting" of our Son's diagnosis.  After realizing that "No" physical testing was ever done, but he was given Meds that caused physical side affects...something just did not add up.  We totally appreciate this site and all of the input people have been giving us.  All the best and Thank-you again.  I am pretty sure my Son has a site set up here now.