Turan: Paxil withdrawal

[Turan]

I cant open a topic in tapering it is really important

 

Does anybody know the reason?

Edited February 9, 2023 by Shep
added title of thread after merging post into intro thread

[Turan]

Hello

I started Paxil around 4 months ago. Start slowly and from 100 days ago 20 mg daily. 10 night 10 noon. Then around 3 weeks ago I reduced to 5 night 5 noon slowly. Now, after 3 days of cutting today I feel heavy in my head. Is it because of Paxil withdrawal? What should I do? any help?

You know I have a very low dizziness and heavy in my head

 

[Shep]

Hi, @Turan

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants.

 

Please note I merged your posts into one thread. Please continue to post here in your Introduction / Update thread so all of your information is in one place. 

 

11 hours ago, Turan said:

Then around 3 weeks ago I reduced to 5 night 5 noon slowly. Now, after 3 days of cutting today I feel heavy in my head.

 

Please go back to the dose you were on 3 days ago. You are tapering way too quickly - we recommend tapering no faster than 10% a month, based on the prior month's dose. Please see:

 

Tips for tapering off paroxetine (Paxil, Seroxat)

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

Healing from antidepressants. Patterns of recovery video (4 minutes)

 

 

Please set up a signature. Here is how: 

 

How to Summarize Your Drug History in Your Signature

 

Again, please increase your Paxil dose to where you were 3 days ago, before this last reduction. Let us know how you're feeling. 

[Turan]

4 hours ago, Shep said:

Hi, @Turan

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants.

 

Please note I merged your posts into one thread. Please continue to post here in your Introduction / Update thread so all of your information is in one place. 

 

 

Please go back to the dose you were on 3 days ago. You are tapering way too quickly - we recommend tapering no faster than 10% a month, based on the prior month's dose. Please see:

 

Tips for tapering off paroxetine (Paxil, Seroxat)

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

Healing from antidepressants. Patterns of recovery video (4 minutes)

 

 

Please set up a signature. Here is how: 

 

How to Summarize Your Drug History in Your Signature

 

Again, please increase your Paxil dose to where you were 3 days ago, before this last reduction. Let us know how you're feeling. 

Thank you my friend. The reason that did that I thought I have used it for a few months that is ok to taper soon. even if I used 3 or 4 moths I should taper 10%? Actually cutting pills would be issue then.

[Shep]

7 hours ago, Turan said:

The reason that did that I thought I have used it for a few months that is ok to taper soon. even if I used 3 or 4 moths I should taper 10%?

 

It only takes about a month to become dependent on an antidepressant. Once you're dependent, you're dependent. So you'll want to taper by 10% (or less) a month, based on the previous month's dose (not the originally prescribed dose).

 

7 hours ago, Turan said:

Actually cutting pills would be issue then.

 

Please read over the links provided in my first post to find information on how to taper small amounts. You'll want to either get a liquid formula of your drug, make your own liquid, or use a scale.

 

Please post any questions you have about how to do this. We can also help you with the math for the percentages. 

 

Also, please set up a signature (instructions are linked in my first post).

 

With a slow taper, you'll be less likely to have withdrawal symptoms. 

[Turan]

On 2/10/2023 at 3:42 PM, Shep said:

 

It only takes about a month to become dependent on an antidepressant. Once you're dependent, you're dependent. So you'll want to taper by 10% (or less) a month, based on the previous month's dose (not the originally prescribed dose).

 

 

Please read over the links provided in my first post to find information on how to taper small amounts. You'll want to either get a liquid formula of your drug, make your own liquid, or use a scale.

 

Please post any questions you have about how to do this. We can also help you with the math for the percentages. 

 

Also, please set up a signature (instructions are linked in my first post).

 

With a slow taper, you'll be less likely to have withdrawal symptoms. 

Thanks really. Is this 10 percent proved in science?so 10 percent monthly with respect to previous month? it takes too much time

[Shep]

6 hours ago, Turan said:

Thanks really. Is this 10 percent proved in science?so 10 percent monthly with respect to previous month? it takes too much time

 

Yes, please see:

 

On 8/5/2011 at 4:43 PM, Altostrata said:

For scientific data supporting very gradual tapering, see Horowitz, 2019 Tapering of SSRI treatment to mitigate withdrawal symptoms 

 

This paper is based on the concepts discussed in our topic Why taper? Paper demonstrates importance of gradual change in plasma concentration referring to Meyer, 2004 and other research into SERT transporter occupancy.

 

From correspondence with Dr. Horowitz: "...all pharmacological relationships are hyperbolic so the pattern of exponential reduction that you recommend is likely to apply to any target no matter what it is."

 

[Turan]

On 2/12/2023 at 10:58 AM, Shep said:

 

Yes, please see:

 

 

Thank you so much. Would you please let me know what happened if someone reduce from 1/2 daily to 1/4 say for two weeks and finish like this. The thing that there is no difference between using 1 month and 1 year still is not digested to me! I just used 3 months so the time I reduce is the same as person who used two years. consider last dosage is same!

[j1290]

35 minutes ago, Turan said:

Would you please let me know what happened if someone reduce from 1/2 daily to 1/4 say for two weeks and finish like this.

I think what you're proposing is a fast taper.  Frequently we get visitors here who have done this and are in a bad way.  The end result seems to be WD symptoms that drag on for weeks to years.   It's a tragedy when people come here like this because there's just not much to be done to ease the suffering.  I wouldn't wish that on anybody.   

 

Paxil is one of the most difficult ADs to get off of.  It gets much harder to taper as you go lower in dose.   If you do a fast taper of 50% cuts like you proposed, looking into my crystal ball the result is likely to be intensified symptoms that you already have, for an indeterminate period of time. 

 

The more I studied those links above, the easier everything was for me.  

 

If you can't tolerate the symptoms you have, one thing to consider would be to increase your dose to a point you can tolerate and then reduce more slowly.  

 

Good luck, please keep us posted!

[littlebird]

3 minutes ago, j1290 said:

If you do a fast taper of 50% cuts like you proposed, looking into my crystal ball the result is likely to be intensified symptoms that you already have, for an indeterminate period of time. 

 

Oop, popping in to say I recently (accidentally) did a 50% cut and it was absolute hell. Don't be like me! Please go slowly, it's much safer. I've also run into people on here who have symptoms long after they finish after a fast taper, their bodies aren't adjusted yet despite the med being gone.

 

Our bodies need time to adjust and learn to do the things the pills were doing for us, so having this process happen slowly seems to lead to long-term success. Again, this is anecdotal, but also the founder of this site has helped thousands of people taper and has collected a lot of info in that time about what works.

 

Someone on here said, "Slower is actually faster," meaning if you go slow from the start, you're less likely to have to reinstate (or add something else in). I've gone too fast down the taper road, and ended up in a bad way. While it's hard to be patient, going slowly allows your body time to adjust. Going too fast can really take you some dark places!

[Shep]

On 2/9/2023 at 7:30 AM, Turan said:

Hello

I started Paxil around 4 months ago. Start slowly and from 100 days ago 20 mg daily. 10 night 10 noon. Then around 3 weeks ago I reduced to 5 night 5 noon slowly. Now, after 3 days of cutting today I feel heavy in my head. Is it because of Paxil withdrawal? What should I do? any help?

You know I have a very low dizziness and heavy in my head

 

 

11 hours ago, Turan said:

The thing that there is no difference between using 1 month and 1 year still is not digested to me! I just used 3 months so the time I reduce is the same as person who used two years. consider last dosage is same!

 

Turan, from what you wrote in the first post I quoted, you show signs of dependency. It doesn't matter if you took it for 3 months or for 3 years - once you're dependent, you're dependent. 

 

Are you taking any other psychiatric drugs or any supplements? The more information you give us, the more we can help.

 

Please set up a signature with your drug history. Here is how: 

 

How to Summarize Your Drug History in Your Signature

[Turan]

On 2/19/2023 at 7:47 AM, j1290 said:

I think what you're proposing is a fast taper.  Frequently we get visitors here who have done this and are in a bad way.  The end result seems to be WD symptoms that drag on for weeks to years.   It's a tragedy when people come here like this because there's just not much to be done to ease the suffering.  I wouldn't wish that on anybody.   

 

Paxil is one of the most difficult ADs to get off of.  It gets much harder to taper as you go lower in dose.   If you do a fast taper of 50% cuts like you proposed, looking into my crystal ball the result is likely to be intensified symptoms that you already have, for an indeterminate period of time. 

 

The more I studied those links above, the easier everything was for me.  

 

If you can't tolerate the symptoms you have, one thing to consider would be to increase your dose to a point you can tolerate and then reduce more slowly.  

 

Good luck, please keep us posted!

Wow that is great Thanks. Yes I think I should increase the dose. My dosage was not too much. After start with lowest dose we increased to 1 daily. 1/2 noon and 1/2 night. That was good but after knowing about sex problems associated with paxil I decided to reduce to 1/2 dailt (1/4 night and 1/4 noon). Believe it or not it got better. but then I thought it is better to reduce from 1/4 daily (1/8 night and 1/8 noon). Still it was not bad or i did not feel any bad. I started to stop one day between two days. One day off one day on. But I realize the day after one day off I feel brain zap (is it same as feeling heavy in brain!!?). It is really important for me to know does really one day off that bad?!! My doctor told me continue for one year 1 daily but it was heavy really for me. Now I do not want to stop 1/4 daily. I hope this is enough for me. Believe it or not three years ago I stopped paxil suddenly from 1/4 daily to zero and nothing happened. My doctor told me to do that. But I used for 1 year and half. was it logical? I mean how come that time nothing happened?

[Turan]

14 hours ago, Shep said:

 

 

Turan, from what you wrote in the first post I quoted, you show signs of dependency. It doesn't matter if you took it for 3 months or for 3 years - once you're dependent, you're dependent. 

 

Are you taking any other psychiatric drugs or any supplements? The more information you give us, the more we can help.

 

Please set up a signature with your drug history. Here is how: 

 

How to Summarize Your Drug History in Your Signature

I will do signature sure give me time. No other drug no.

[Turan]

Also, if I increase dosage to 1/4 daily regarding what I wrote above it is going to be better right? I mean symptoms. It is not that bad but I feel it!

[Turan]

14 hours ago, Shep said:

 

 

Turan, from what you wrote in the first post I quoted, you show signs of dependency. It doesn't matter if you took it for 3 months or for 3 years - once you're dependent, you're dependent. 

 

Are you taking any other psychiatric drugs or any supplements? The more information you give us, the more we can help.

 

Please set up a signature with your drug history. Here is how: 

 

How to Summarize Your Drug History in Your Signature

But why I heard that AD does not make dependence? That dependence is different from what you mention here I think?

[Turan]

On 2/19/2023 at 7:57 AM, littlebird said:

 

Oop, popping in to say I recently (accidentally) did a 50% cut and it was absolute hell. Don't be like me! Please go slowly, it's much safer. I've also run into people on here who have symptoms long after they finish after a fast taper, their bodies aren't adjusted yet despite the med being gone.

 

Our bodies need time to adjust and learn to do the things the pills were doing for us, so having this process happen slowly seems to lead to long-term success. Again, this is anecdotal, but also the founder of this site has helped thousands of people taper and has collected a lot of info in that time about what works.

 

Someone on here said, "Slower is actually faster," meaning if you go slow from the start, you're less likely to have to reinstate (or add something else in). I've gone too fast down the taper road, and ended up in a bad way. While it's hard to be patient, going slowly allows your body time to adjust. Going too fast can really take you some dark places!

So you increase and everything is ok?

[littlebird]

17 minutes ago, Turan said:

So you increase and everything is ok?

 

Not ok yet! I hurt myself with a 50% taper. I have to increase slowly, can't go back to where I was quite yet. 50% was way too much, too fast.

 

36 minutes ago, Turan said:

But I realize the day after one day off I feel brain zap (is it same as feeling heavy in brain!!?)

 

For me, brain zaps feel like electricity zapping my brain and running down my spine. 

[j1290]

8 minutes ago, Turan said:

I started to stop one day between two days. One day off one day on.

So many people, myself included, have been instructed to skip days.   Here's what the site owner has to say about that.  I'm sure it works for some people, but I sure wouldn't.   

 

10 minutes ago, Turan said:

after knowing about sex problems associated with paxil I decided to reduce to 1/2 dailt (1/4 night and 1/4 noon). Believe it or not it got better.

For how long are we talking?  This is the kind of stuff we need to see in your signature to give advice.  The devil is in the details. 

13 minutes ago, Turan said:

But I realize the day after one day off I feel brain zap (is it same as feeling heavy in brain!!?). It is really important for me to know does really one day off that bad?!!

Brother, my heart goes out to you.   I used to taper Effexor, and if I missed a dose or tapered too fast I'd get brain zaps.  A day of those is a special kind of hell.   Someone who knows Paxil can give you better advice, but there's a reason why Paxil is so hard to get off.   

 

18 minutes ago, Turan said:

Believe it or not three years ago I stopped paxil suddenly from 1/4 daily to zero and nothing happened.

Sorry you didn't get that deal this time.   It might be a factor in why it's so hard to get off this time, might not.  

 

19 minutes ago, Turan said:

But I used for 1 year and half. was it logical? I mean how come that time nothing happened?

None of it is fair, and results are frequently unpredictable.  In my personal opinion, there are very few definitive answers for why most things happen with ADs, outside of some basics.   

 

I'd encourage you to read some introductions by people who did fast tapers or just quit without tapering.   Once I read a few of those it really opened my eyes to what that looks like.  I can't read them anymore because they need much better qualified help than I can give.  

 

Here's a really nice general guide to discontinuing ADs.  There's a list of how hard they are to get off of and Paxil is right up near the top.  

 

Just a heads up, when you reduce too much, the clock starts ticking.  The sooner you go back up, the better the odds that you will find relief.  It's a tricky situation because how much should you go back up?   I'd encourage you to speak to a moderator ASAP, they can better assist you than I can.  In the meantime I'd look around for information about reinstatement and see what the suggested method is.  Personally, I couldn't tolerate brain zaps.  If I got too many of those I knew I cut too fast, but that was on Effexor.  

 

Really glad you came back and are asking all the right questions.   Stick with it, you'll get back on track before you know it.  Generally speaking the goal around here isn't to get off the pills the fastest, but with the least suffering.  

[Shep]

13 hours ago, Turan said:

Also, if I increase dosage to 1/4 daily regarding what I wrote above it is going to be better right? I mean symptoms. It is not that bad but I feel it!

 

Please add a signature that contains your drug history, Turan. You're taking the time to post here. Please give us the information we need to help you. 

[Turan]

On 2/20/2023 at 9:45 PM, Shep said:

 

Please add a signature that contains your drug history, Turan. You're taking the time to post here. Please give us the information we need to help you. 

signature is done. Please give me idea what to do! Increase dosage soon?

[Shep]

@Turan Please add the dose to your signature. We have no idea what 1/4 daily means. Please post the milligrams. 

 

Also, you have this in your signature - "Due to fear from sex deprivation I reduced to 1/2 daily. Used it for two weeks. then reduced to 1/8 daily."

 

When was this? Please post the month, day, and year. We can't give you information on updosing without knowing when you made these reductions. 

 

What we need:

 

1. The amounts of the drugs you were taking in milligrams in your signature
2. The month, day, and year of your reductions beginning October 2022 through today

 

[Turan]

On 2/23/2023 at 12:28 PM, Shep said:

@Turan Please add the dose to your signature. We have no idea what 1/4 daily means. Please post the milligrams. 

 

Also, you have this in your signature - "Due to fear from sex deprivation I reduced to 1/2 daily. Used it for two weeks. then reduced to 1/8 daily."

 

When was this? Please post the month, day, and year. We can't give you information on updosing without knowing when you made these reductions. 

 

What we need:

 

1. The amounts of the drugs you were taking in milligrams in your signature
2. The month, day, and year of your reductions beginning October 2022 through today

 

I think now is ok

[Turan]

so no idea?

[Turan]

On 2/23/2023 at 12:28 PM, Shep said:

@Turan Please add the dose to your signature. We have no idea what 1/4 daily means. Please post the milligrams. 

 

Also, you have this in your signature - "Due to fear from sex deprivation I reduced to 1/2 daily. Used it for two weeks. then reduced to 1/8 daily."

 

When was this? Please post the month, day, and year. We can't give you information on updosing without knowing when you made these reductions. 

 

What we need:

 

1. The amounts of the drugs you were taking in milligrams in your signature
2. The month, day, and year of your reductions beginning October 2022 through today

 

After turning back to 10 mg daily now i feel better. however, i dont know when should i start decreasing. my doctor told me use around a year but 20 mg. but I feared of sex deprivation

[Shep]

@Turan Whether or not you wish to take it for a year is up to you. All we can do here is to advise you of how to taper slowly so you have as few withdrawal symptoms as possible. If you wish to continue taking this drug, please work with your doctor. 

 

And then come back here when you're ready to taper. 

[Turan]

20 hours ago, Shep said:

@Turan Whether or not you wish to take it for a year is up to you. All we can do here is to advise you of how to taper slowly so you have as few withdrawal symptoms as possible. If you wish to continue taking this drug, please work with your doctor. 

 

And then come back here when you're ready to taper. 

How you know that someone ready to taper?! So someone come to you say that I want to taper you started to tell him how to taper? I think your answer is not logical.

[Shep]

19 hours ago, Turan said:

How you know that someone ready to taper?! So someone come to you say that I want to taper you started to tell him how to taper? I think your answer is not logical.

 

You will be the best judge of when it's time for you to taper. Some things to consider: How is your sleep? How is your appetite? Are you able to take care of yourself, your job, your family, etc.? Once you are in a stable enough state, that is when you would start your taper. 

[Turan]

4 hours ago, Shep said:

 

You will be the best judge of when it's time for you to taper. Some things to consider: How is your sleep? How is your appetite? Are you able to take care of yourself, your job, your family, etc.? Once you are in a stable enough state, that is when you would start your taper. 

I see. Great I get it. Now I feel stable but I fear of tapering!

[Turan]

3 minutes ago, Turan said:

I see. Great I get it. Now I feel stable but I fear of tapering!

I see. Great I get it. Now I feel stable but I fear of tapering! Actually I did from 20 to 10 directly without any problem. But rest as I wrote in my signature problematic

[Shep]

22 hours ago, Turan said:

I see. Great I get it. Now I feel stable but I fear of tapering! 

 

The fear spirals are real. If you can, try to interrupt these fear thoughts and find something else to do to take your mind off those fear thoughts. This is called "changing the channel."

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

22 hours ago, Turan said:

Actually I did from 20 to 10 directly without any problem. But rest as I wrote in my signature problematic

 

The lower doses can be harder to taper. No reason to fear that, though. Knowing that and knowing that you can taper slower should give you hope that you'll be able to get off this drug and heal. Take your time tapering. Go slow. 

 

Here is why those lower doses are harder to taper:

 

Why taper? SERT transporter occupancy studies show importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

Because of the higher concentration of the drug in the lower doses, you'll want to taper slowly, perhaps even a micro-taper. 

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

Decreasing your dosage by very tiny amounts more often might be more tolerable than 5% or 10% decreases. Know your symptom pattern first so you can estimate how often you can reduce.

 

You may want to use the Brassmonkey Slide Method, which involves tiny weekly reductions instead of a higher, monthly reduction.

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

[Turan]

4 hours ago, Shep said:

 

The fear spirals are real. If you can, try to interrupt these fear thoughts and find something else to do to take your mind off those fear thoughts. This is called "changing the channel."

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

 

The lower doses can be harder to taper. No reason to fear that, though. Knowing that and knowing that you can taper slower should give you hope that you'll be able to get off this drug and heal. Take your time tapering. Go slow. 

 

Here is why those lower doses are harder to taper:

 

Why taper? SERT transporter occupancy studies show importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

Because of the higher concentration of the drug in the lower doses, you'll want to taper slowly, perhaps even a micro-taper. 

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

Decreasing your dosage by very tiny amounts more often might be more tolerable than 5% or 10% decreases. Know your symptom pattern first so you can estimate how often you can reduce.

 

You may want to use the Brassmonkey Slide Method, which involves tiny weekly reductions instead of a higher, monthly reduction.

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

Thank you so much. I appreciate it interesting. Just I want to know how 10 mg affects brain in 1 year than in 3 months?

[Shep]

19 hours ago, Turan said:

Just I want to know how 10 mg affects brain in 1 year than in 3 months?

 

Dependency is very individual. No one can tell you how dependent you are. This is why we recommend everyone go no faster than a 10% reduction a month, based on the previous month's dose. This allows the nervous system to adapt to gradual changes and reduces your chances of severe withdrawal symptoms. And some people aren't able to tolerate 10% and prefer to micro-taper at 3 or 5%. 

 

Again, it's very individual. You will be the best judge based on your individual symptoms. 

 

Here are ways you can track your symptoms and their severity:

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

[Turan]

17 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Dependency is very individual. No one can tell you how dependent you are. This is why we recommend everyone go no faster than a 10% reduction a month, based on the previous month's dose. This allows the nervous system to adapt to gradual changes and reduces your chances of severe withdrawal symptoms. And some people aren't able to tolerate 10% and prefer to micro-taper at 3 or 5%. 

 

Again, it's very individual. You will be the best judge based on your individual symptoms. 

 

Here are ways you can track your symptoms and their severity:

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

Thank you Shep:)

[Shep]

You're welcome. 

[Turan]

I have one more question. I just started to use the pill every two days which means that I stopped taking it two days then another day I use as in my signature 5 mg noon 5 mg night. However, I understood that in the third day I feel pressure in my head! I am not sure it is brain zap or so but I feel strange in my head! I don't know is it really because of paxil? It is a bit complicated for me to understand the reason. My doctor told me to use for one year before stop. But I want to decrease and stop because I feel god. However, I am really afraid about reducing because I could not understand exactly how to reduce reading this forum. I feel good with 5 mg noon and 5 mg night but I dont know. I have no problem taking paxil but anyway I want to avoid chemicals!

[Shep]

10 hours ago, Turan said:

I just started to use the pill every two days which means that I stopped taking it two days then another day I use as in my signature 5 mg noon 5 mg night.

 

Do you mean you're skipping days to taper? We do not recommend doing that. Skipping doses causes the amount of the drug in your bloodstream to go up and down, which can make your withdrawal symptoms worse. Please see:

 

NEVER SKIP DOSES TO TAPER

 

We recommend taking your drug at the same time every day consistently. This is extremely important.