Eternalgirl Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 **Please note a close friend is posting my questions and monitoring replies for me at the moment as I am finding everything overwhelming and triggering (bad health anxiety on top of severe withdrawal symptoms)** Hope you understand. Hi everyone, I suffer with anxiety, depression and OCD and my story starts twelve years ago when I was pregnant with my first child, I was suffering severe anxiety and insomnia. I was put on Avanza which after a month did nothing besides increase my intrusive thoughts, I was also on temazepam. The Dr switched me to Effexor XR 37.5 mg which helped me and I was able to come off the temazepam after a couple of months and stayed on Effexor 37.5 mg for three years and then went up to 75mg for three years, I then went up to 150mg due to Post natal depression and then finally 225mg. I did wean down to 150 mg again in that time but it didn’t last long. Fast forward to July last year where I was having trouble with sleep and break thru anxiety, so the Dr (local Dr, not a psychiatrist) decided we would try switching to another antidepressant. So the plan was to have one full day of no meds and then switch to Zoloft 50 mg. I couldn’t even do one day without feeling like I was dying from brain zaps, dizziness and wanting to vomit. So I decided to cut down over two weeks. When I got to 0 mg at two weeks, I decided I felt good mentally, more like my normal self and a huge appetite so I thought Id give being on nothing a go. I lasted three weeks. I was crying at everything, not sleeping well, extremely agitated and had extreme dizziness and brain zaps, so I decided to start Zoloft. Zoloft 50 mg gave me severe akathisia, anxiety and depression and I was suicidal, I was taking a serepax here and there for help with the panic. In the first week of taking Zoloft I noticed scary closed eye hallucinations, ( awake night mares) and by a few weeks in I had voices in my head, I think by then it was about October, I pretty much stopped the zoloft cold turkey after trying it for two months, and stayed med free for two months. My mind became really confused and sounds coming from one direction sounded like it was coming from another.when people were talking it sounded like they were saying my name or swearing. I would start to see shapes form in front of me on the ground, I could see scary faces in everything and even people driving in cars at first looked scary or from a distance things would appear different. I started getting random people pop up in my minds eye sometimes scary images. I also had visual snow on occasion, particularly waking up. I’ve had some nightmares, and vivid dreams. I get random flashbacks. I went to buy cat food when we didn’t even have a cat anymore. I would go to use furniture that was no longer in the house and every time a car went passed or a toilet flushed my mind would run random gibberish voices. I would hear phones ringing, smell smells that weren’t there and started muddling up my words a lot especially when reading out loud. I became very sensitive to noise and loud noises would set off a type of brain zap. I also started feeling like something was always behind me or under my bed or following me, trying to get me. My floaties in my eyes got worse and I became very jumpy. In December just before Christmas I started fluoxetine 20mg its helped my mood slightly where I don’t cry at everything and not as suicidal. We tried going up to 40 mg but seemed to make things worse so went back down to 20mg. I’m also on olanzapine 5 mg since feb it helped the first six weeks a bit at 2.5 mg and then seemed to be getting a lot of break thru paranoia . the night voices had stopped but are now back, the closed eye hallucinations haven’t been as scary at times but im still struggling with hallucinations mainly hypnogogic ( falling asleep and waking up) or in a drowsy state. Sometimes the voices in my head seem like my own dialogue and other times not. They’re kind of like a break thru dreaming state that happens whilst awake. Still cant close my eyes without seeing faces or scenes, still muddling up words and have random faces, scenes or animals pop up in my minds eye. Sometimes my mind runs pictures with voices in my mind whilst awake, like a dream. I don't know if the Prozac is helping, it hasn't stopped the worst symptoms but has helped with my mood. as I said. I think the olanzapine is mostly making me able to sleep but weight is an issue and I know it is a bad drug. I would like to come off all the meds if it is possible but I also really want really need the hallucination stuff to stop - if that was gone I think I could cope. The psychiatrist is shrugging his shoulders now, says I have health anxiety (and not really believing it is withdrawl as he thinks it has gone on too long). He is sending me for an MRI and has mentioned maybe going back on Effexor as a last resort (but apparently this needs a break of 7 days after tapering off). I just want it to stop it feels like it is never going to end. Please help. 2011-2022 Effexor (37.5mg – 225mg). Tried Avanza first for a month and Temazepam for a few months at the very start. July 2022 225mg Effexor reduced to 0 as was switching to Zoloft at Dr's suggestion, August 2022 – October 2022 Zoloft 50mg (8 weeks only) and Serapax for a short time December 2022 to Current Fluoxetine 20mg-40mg February 2023 to Olanzapine 2.5mg-5mg Current Meds - Fluoxetine 20mg, Olanzapine 5mg also Magnesium Supplement and Omoprozol 20mg daily (for GERD) Had iron infusions last few weeks as levels were zero. Link to comment
Eternalgirl Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 ps. I am having bad OCD symptoms, I think it is from the Olanzapine as it worsened when I went from 2.5mg to 5mg. The OCD was bad when i was on lower doses of Effexor too. I would love to be on nothing but know I have to taper properly now, I can't believe that Dr did it that way now I know more! But guess i would like to know if it is likely Effexor could help after all this time (even a small dose). I would do whatever I need to do to make it stop, which is why I tried the fluoxetine and olanzapine after being on nothing for two months. I really didn't want to do more drugs, I would rather be on nothing, I am sick of it all. 2011-2022 Effexor (37.5mg – 225mg). Tried Avanza first for a month and Temazepam for a few months at the very start. July 2022 225mg Effexor reduced to 0 as was switching to Zoloft at Dr's suggestion, August 2022 – October 2022 Zoloft 50mg (8 weeks only) and Serapax for a short time December 2022 to Current Fluoxetine 20mg-40mg February 2023 to Olanzapine 2.5mg-5mg Current Meds - Fluoxetine 20mg, Olanzapine 5mg also Magnesium Supplement and Omoprozol 20mg daily (for GERD) Had iron infusions last few weeks as levels were zero. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus JanCarol Posted March 15, 2023 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 15, 2023 (edited) Hey Eternalgirl - I'm just going to highlight some things that I think are important. On 3/14/2023 at 2:16 PM, Eternalgirl said: So the plan was to have one full day of no meds and then switch to Zoloft 50 mg. I couldn’t even do one day without feeling like I was dying from brain zaps, dizziness and wanting to vomit. So I decided to cut down over two weeks. When I got to 0 mg at two weeks, I decided I felt good mentally, more like my normal self and a huge appetite so I thought Id give being on nothing a go. I lasted three weeks. I was crying at everything, not sleeping well, extremely agitated and had extreme dizziness and brain zaps, so I decided to start Zoloft. Zoloft 50 mg gave me severe akathisia, anxiety and depression and I was suicidal, I was taking a serepax here and there for help with the panic. OK. I'm not liking this doctor, who wanted to do what we call a "cold switch." The three weeks is the classic amount of time for all your neurotransmitters to say "HEY! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?" Three weeks is the time to adjust the neurotransmitters. So "I lasted three weeks" is almost a standard. The hallucinations you describe sound like an excess of serotonin. Serotonin flooding. It sounds very similar to what psychedelic users describe - misperceptions, choruses in the flushing toilet, like your brain is/was struggling to translate the information it was getting - and getting too much information. The brain is an amazing thing - when we are 6, we can see spirits & ghosts, talk to faeries - but normal development prunes our brains, because these "talents" are really not useful in adult, social life. Serotonin can - in excess - open those floodgates of perception, and now, as adults, we don't have the framework to interpret it. So it seems like a nightmare - all these perceptions coming in, and no way to sort, translate, interpret them. On 3/14/2023 at 2:16 PM, Eternalgirl said: In December just before Christmas I started fluoxetine 20mg its helped my mood slightly where I don’t cry at everything and not as suicidal. We tried going up to 40 mg but seemed to make things worse so went back down to 20mg. I’m also on olanzapine 5 mg since feb it helped the first six weeks a bit at 2.5 mg and then seemed to be getting a lot of break thru paranoia . OK - so is the same p-doc who wanted to cold switch you? Was this a cold switch from Zoloft to Prozac? It may be time for you to find a new p-doc, as this one doesn't believe in, or understand withdrawal, or how these drugs work in the brain. Otherwise he wouldn't be so flippant with you. He's gaslighting you, saying that your symptoms are health anxiety. Well, he's not in your head, he doesn't struggle with these symptoms, hallucinations, cognitive & perceptual intrusions. Is It Withdrawal or Relapse? Or Something Else? Prozac is one of the easiest tapers - I don't think it will benefit you to go back to Effexor, which can be really hard to come off of. The Prozac settled you some, so - let's work with where you are instead of trying to make things "perfect," which they will never be. So - Welcome to SA! Look here, to see some good explanations of the interactions between these drugs, the brain, your nervous system, and how they work (and how & why tapers work): We taper by 10% of previous dose - see: Why taper by 10% of my dosage? The Olanzapine is, indeed, reducing your symptoms. We suggest starting with the Prozac. I hallucinated on Prozac (as I described to you in PM). I was driving my car, at an intersection by my house. 12 lanes coming together at a light. I'm in a left turn lane. I look across at a service station, and out of a ditch, Bigfoot comes ambling up to my car, places his big, sticky hands on the driver-side window, and looks straight at me. Then, he ambled off and disappeared back into the ditch. Frank hallucination, they called it. I knew it was just me, because there were 12 lanes of traffic, and nobody seemed disturbed by this huge furry creature walking around the intersection! But that was a one off, what you describe is a more immersive experience, fairly constant. So what we want to do is look at what makes you better. Good onya for taking Magnesium - but - look at the label, most Mag supplements are mag-oxide, which is indigestible. If there is any mag oxide in it at all, do not buy. They are selling something which is effectively useless. (also avoid mag/calcium combinations) Mag Glycinate is the best - there are some excellent (expensive) mag products available here in Australia - but you can get cheaper from iHerb or Swanson in the US (which is what I do with mag) You may also want to consider Omega-3 fish oil - we are fortunate here in Australia, the TGA takes good care of our fish oil, plenty of good products available. You may also want to consider looking at your PPI: That Acid Reflux Pill May Be Causing Your Health Problems and Tips for tapering of PPI stomach acid drugs When I was taking statin and PPI, they made my body heavy, depressed. The PPI diminishes your capacity to absorb nutrients. I found them depressing. The consulting chemist who came to my house took me off the PPI right away (no tapering, you may wish to taper) because it's not designed for long term use! (doctors don't tell you that) Over time, it will strip your nutrients and contribute to osteoporosis...) That may be the place to start, an easy PPI taper which, in the long run, will help your antidepressant taper. There is a very real chance that your long use of antidepressants has changed your digestion. Plus, you just got cold-switched in December - it would behove you to make sure that's settled down before you taper - it gives you time to formulate a plan that works best for you. But it's your choice - if you want to stay on the PPI and taper the Prozac, first, that's your option. Read and decide for yourself. Most of all - we are big fans of Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms While you are immersed in this experience, it may not feel emotional. And when your nervous system is screaming at you, it's a difficult to learn new techniques. You may have to fall back on what you already know (most people know something about how to manage their mood, they just don't remember to use them). My mood management is sun-walks, tai chi, qigong, mag baths & music. But I used to do colouring, playing music, and have done ecstatic dancing, meditating, spinning, shaking, just breathing. There are many ways to adjust your mood. Maybe try a simple one like this (4 minutes): Kim Eng - Shaking Practice But as we get to know each other better, we can work on what works for you. I hope you see the Sun today! Edited March 15, 2023 by JanCarol 1 "Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again. My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices. A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia. CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013. Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine). Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 - Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years on Lithium). Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made. The tedious thread (my intro): JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium The happy thread (my success story): JanCarol - Undiagnosed Off all bipolar drugs My own blog: https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/ I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016! Link to comment
Eternalgirl Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 Thank you for the reply and information. Lots to take in but really appreciate it. To answer the questions - the Dr that wanted to do what you said was a çold switch was just my local doctor (GP) who was doing the Effexor prescriptions...which I was on for a long time. After the failed Zoloft trial I saw a pdoc, but this was after about 8 weeks of being on nothing. He then prescribed the Prozac. So I had the hallucination type symptoms from when I took the Zoloft and they have never gone away. But the pdoc was the one who is basically giving up on me now, said that it is health anxiety and that I might have to get used to living this way. He said that it was be very atypical to be from the Effexor or Zoloft after all this time, he only thinks any withdrawal symptoms last a few weeks. I am going to start reducing the Prozac tomorrow by the 10% recommended in the link. So will go to 18mg from 20mg. I will leave the Zyprexa, the PPI and the magnesium as is although I think the PPI could be contributing to the iron issues I guess. But will check out the other magnesium types going forward too. Interestingly, tonight I came across something called 'Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder' which very much describes the symptoms I have. It is often triggered by illicit drugs (like LSD, which I have not had) but appears it can also happen from SSRI's. It seems people can be stuck with it for a long time but hopefully tapering the medications I am on will help. 2011-2022 Effexor (37.5mg – 225mg). Tried Avanza first for a month and Temazepam for a few months at the very start. July 2022 225mg Effexor reduced to 0 as was switching to Zoloft at Dr's suggestion, August 2022 – October 2022 Zoloft 50mg (8 weeks only) and Serapax for a short time December 2022 to Current Fluoxetine 20mg-40mg February 2023 to Olanzapine 2.5mg-5mg Current Meds - Fluoxetine 20mg, Olanzapine 5mg also Magnesium Supplement and Omoprozol 20mg daily (for GERD) Had iron infusions last few weeks as levels were zero. Link to comment
Moderator FireflyFyte Posted March 15, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 15, 2023 Hello Eternalgirl - just wanted to stop by and offer some support. I also ended up on Fluoxetine and Olanzapine (and Gabapentin - yay for poly-drugging...) after a bad withdrawal from Latuda and am currently in the process of tapering the Olanzapine. I hope your taper of Fluoxetine is uneventful. Remember, slow and steady is the way. Pre- October 2022: Wellbutrin, Escitalopram, Citalopram, Sertraline, Adderall IR, Vyvanse, Propranolol, Buspar, Ativan, and Latuda Oct 13, 2022 - Oct 24, 2022 and Oct 31, 2022 - Present: Zyprexa (2.5 mg). Jan 14, 2023 -> Began transition to liquid suspension. Jan 29, 2023 = 2.375mg -> Feb 12, 2023 = 2.25mg -> Feb 27, 2023 = 2.14mg -> Mar 12, 2023 = 2.025mg -> Mar 27, 2023 = 1.93mg -> Apr 10, 2023 = 1.82mg -> Apr 23, 2023 = 1.74mg -> May 7, 2023 = 1.64mg -> May 21, 2023 = 1.56mg -> June 4, 2023 = 1.48mg -> June 19, 2023 = 1.4mg -> July 2, 2023 = 1.33mg -> July 16, 2023 = 1.26mg -> July 31, 2023 = 1.2mg -> Aug 13, 2023 = 1.14mg -> Aug 27, 2023 = 1.08mg -> Sep 13, 2023 = 1.02mg -> Jan 22, 2024 = 0.97mg -> Feb 4, 2024 = 0.92mg -> Feb 19, 2024 = 0.87mg -> Mar 3, 2024 = 0.83mg -> Mar 17, 2024 = 0.78mg -> Mar 31, 2024 = 0.74mg -> Apr 14, 2024 = 0.7mg -> Apr 28, 2024 = 0.66mg -> May 12, 2024 = 0.63mg -> May 27, 2024 = 0.6mg -> June 9, 2024 = 0.57mg -> June 24, 2024 = 0.54mg -> July 6, 2024 = 0.51mg -> July 21, 2024 = 0.48mg -> Aug 6, 2024 = 0.455mg -> Aug 20, 2024 = 0.43mg -> Sep 3, 2024 = 0.41mg -> Sep 17, 2024 = 0.39mg -> Oct 1, 2024 = 0.37mg -> Oct 16, 2024 = 0.35mg -> Oct 29, 2024 = 0.33mg Oct 14, 2022 - Present: Prozac (40mg) upped from 20mg on Nov 1, 2022. Oct 31, 2022 - Present: Gabapentin (300mg 3x day) -> May 3, 2023 = 300mg 2x day -> Oct 1, 2023 = 570mg -> Oct 15, 2023 = 540mg -> Oct 29, 2023 = 510mg -> Nov 13, 2023 = 484mg -> Nov 27, 2023 = 460mg -> Dec 9, 2023 = 436mg -> Dec 24, 2023 = 414mg -> Jan 7, 2024 = 400mg Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus JanCarol Posted March 16, 2023 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 16, 2023 Hey Eternalgirl (love the name!) 13 hours ago, Eternalgirl said: After the failed Zoloft trial I saw a pdoc, but this was after about 8 weeks of being on nothing. He then prescribed the Prozac. So he took you off the Zoloft and prescribed Prozac. This is another cold switch. 13 hours ago, Eternalgirl said: He said that it was be very atypical to be from the Effexor or Zoloft after all this time, he only thinks any withdrawal symptoms last a few weeks. Just look around the SA site to see that what he is saying is not true. People suffer from these drugs all the time. It tells me that he has no understanding of neurotransmitters and the entanglements with these drugs! 13 hours ago, Eternalgirl said: PPI could be contributing to the iron issues I guess Yep! 13 hours ago, Eternalgirl said: I am going to start reducing the Prozac tomorrow by the 10% recommended in the link. So will go to 18mg from 20mg. Good for you! You've made a plan. If you are careful with your plan, you can sneak out from under this drug. Meanwhile, I will look at my resources to see if I can find a better prescriber for you. There was a great doc in Byron - but he got his license suspended for offering nutritional therapies (supposedly outside his APHRA wheelhouse). You can scour the lists here, it looks like Rob Purssey of Brisbane is the only one I could find on that list (he does Skype sessions, but may not reach outside the Brisbane area - I don't know). There is also a possibility that - outside the psych profession - you can find an orthomolecular prescriber who might be a better listener: https://www.biobalance.org.au/how-to-find-a-doctor/ BE CAREFUL with these practitioners, as they seem to think that "withdrawal" is a nutritional / detox situation, and sometimes their supplement programs are inappropriate. Breathe, you can do this! I hope you see the Sun today. "Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again. My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices. A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia. CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013. Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine). Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 - Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years on Lithium). Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made. The tedious thread (my intro): JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium The happy thread (my success story): JanCarol - Undiagnosed Off all bipolar drugs My own blog: https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/ I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016! Link to comment
Eternalgirl Posted March 29, 2023 Author Share Posted March 29, 2023 Just updating on behalf of Eternalgirl and thank you all for the support. She started to taper to 18mg of the Prozac but had significant mood symptoms in the first week, possibly unrelated but not sure so she went back to 20mg Prozac to try to stabilise. Things aren't going too great, she has persistent hallucination type symptoms which is probably the most distressing. She is exploring a new pdoc at the moment to help manage the tapering, thank you for the thoughts on that and looking for a good option. 2011-2022 Effexor (37.5mg – 225mg). Tried Avanza first for a month and Temazepam for a few months at the very start. July 2022 225mg Effexor reduced to 0 as was switching to Zoloft at Dr's suggestion, August 2022 – October 2022 Zoloft 50mg (8 weeks only) and Serapax for a short time December 2022 to Current Fluoxetine 20mg-40mg February 2023 to Olanzapine 2.5mg-5mg Current Meds - Fluoxetine 20mg, Olanzapine 5mg also Magnesium Supplement and Omoprozol 20mg daily (for GERD) Had iron infusions last few weeks as levels were zero. Link to comment
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