BavarianPH: Tapered off of 20 mg escitalopram down to 1.75 mg oral solution and got sudden horrible withdrawals

[BavarianPH]

BavarianPH

Started tapering over 6 months ago at 20 mg/ml of escitalopram oral solution. At first at 5% taper, actually 1 ml taper per week with very little withdrawals. At 3 ml it became more difficult, got to 2 ml back to 3 ml, got to 1.75 ml and experience the most intense withdrawals, extreme anxiety, fear, paranoia, close to a mental break. I went back up to 3 ml, then 5 ml, added Benadryl which counteracted withdrawal, but not for long. Was forced to go on .5 mg clonazepam 2x daily which worked but caused irritability, anger, mania, compulsion to talk a lot. So now I try .125 mg clonazepam. Tried to get a hold of my NP psychiatrist, not available until next Monday. I completely tapered off clonazepam 1 year ago and went from 200 mg lamotrigine to 100 mg. I am also on 137 mcg Synthroid, 500 mg Metformin, 300 mg gabapentin. Now I am afraid to taper escitalopram. I don't know at what dose to start, how to taper and for how long a period. This really shocked me. I have to take care of my wife who ended up in hospital 4 times, mostly because of accidental sudden stop of Celexa causing psychosis, then hospital not telling me all the meds they gave her on recovery, then she was put on wrong meds, and then got cold turkeyed on nortriptyline which caused a total breakdown and horrible rage, she was put on antipsychotics and depakote, did not tell me about the depakote and ended in hospital again. Finally, she was put back on escitalopram, rexulti and depakote, she had intense spasms, until I got her on seroquel and off of escitalopram. All this could have been avoided if the hospitals would have told me all the meds given. And if she had gone back on celexa. At that time over 2 years ago I had no knowledge of psychotropics. I studied up to 4 hours or more a day to figure out what happened, and found a totally mismanaged mental health system, unbelievable lack of accurate information and diagnosis. I need a lot of help not just for me but my wife who is so drugged up she can't even think. Please help!

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @BavarianPH

 

I am sorry to hear this has happened to you and your wife. Please stop tapering or adding anything until we can sort this out. Exactly what are you taking now, at what dosages and times o'clock? How long have you been taking each drug? 

 

What is your current symptom pattern?

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[BavarianPH]

When I try to put my history in my signature it keeps telling me too many lines, so I could not be specific enough.

2023 9 am escitalopram Jan 20 mg June 11 1.75 mg, extreme withdrawal

2023 June 12 escitalopram back to 5 mg, June 14 10 mg (by advice of psychiatrist)

when I reached the 1.75 mg escitalopram the withdrawal produced so much fear, paranoia and anxiety, to where I was ready to go to a mental hospital or throw myself in front of a semi-truck, so  I had to first take benadryl which wired me, then raised escitalopram to 5 mg and added 0.5 mg clonazepam 2x daily, then I called my psychiatrist who told me that he would no longer prescribe clonazepam, to not take it, but to increase escitalopram to 10 mg for now, and he prescribed 600 mg gabapentin 3x daily and 25 mg hydroxyzine 1 to 2x daily, also 300 mg oxcarbazepine. I am afraid to take these drugs, except the gabapentin. I feel better, back to "normal". But I need to know whether I should stay at the 10 mg escitalopram or back down closer to where I was. I am very confused and dumb-founded. I need help. I was 

doing so good at 3 or 4 mg escitalopram, I was much calmer, not so wired.

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by BavarianPH
more information

[Altostrata]

43 minutes ago, BavarianPH said:

2023 June 12 escitalopram back to 5 mg, June 14 10 mg (by advice of psychiatrist)

 

You feel back to normal on 10mg escitalopram? Why do you need gabapentin, hydroxyzine, and oxcarbazepine?

 

How long have you been taking 300mg gabapentin?

 

It will take up to a week for you to feel the full effect of 10mg escitalopram. If over that time, you start to feel it's too stimulating, you may wish to reduce back to 5mg.

 

Since the escitalopram reinstatement you started with 5mg on June 12 seems to be working, if I were you, I wouldn't add other drugs.

 

Please add the period you were taking 20mg escitalopram to your signature.

 

[BavarianPH]

the gabapentin is now 600 mg 3x daily, it is for nerve pain, anxiety and sleep at night.

I will not be taking the oxcarbazepine, I am afraid of what it will do, it's supposed to to help anxiety and bipolar.

I may take the hydroxyzine if the extreme fear, paranoia and anxiety return.

Antidepressants should not have been given to anyone. The effects are anything but less depression. For me it was an almost uncontrollable urge to talk and tell people what i think in a very strong tone, the antidepressants hurt many relationships, ended me in a mental hospital and almost prison. They are no strong and accurate warnings about cold turkey stopping effects of drugs. FDA black box labels are not included with medications from pharmacies. Possible psychosis is never mentioned as a withdrawal effect of most psych drugs. 1 out 6 people in the United States is on antidepressants. This is an outright travesty. Many suicides and harmful behavior to the point of homicide may trace back to high doses of antidepressants taken for many years or cold turkey withdrawals plunging some into deep paranoia and even psychosis. This happened to me and even worse to my wife. Most doctors are oblivious to the damaging effect of many drugs, and have no idea of withdrawal symptoms.

[BavarianPH]

Tapering off escitalopram too fast

 

I realize that I tapered off escitalopram too fast at the end. I was doing pretty good at 4 ml (mg). Tapered at 0.2 ml to 3 ml. After that some anxiety started and i tried to reason with myself and intense prayer and tried meditating and use mindfulness. I have problems focusing. But it seemed to work. I went down to 2 ml and backwards back to 3 ml, than back to 2 ml in 0.2 ml increments, because that's what the syringe gives you. At 2 ml it was not too bad. I stayed on each dose for about 1 week. But when I went to 1.8 ml the horrible withdrawal happened, like something broke off in my brain, like the floor of my brain collapsed under me. Intense fear, paranoia, anxiety, to where I wanted to throw myself in front of a semi-truck or go to a mental hospital. But I took benadryl and it wired me (on edge), so I cut smaller portions to be less wired. Then I took 0.5 mg of clonazepam 2x, then down to 0.25 mg 2x and extra gabapentin.

I called my psychiatrist, he told me that they no longer prescribe benzos (clonazepam in my case), and he prescribed gabapentin, hydroxyzine and oxcarbazepine. I only take the gabapentin. I am afraid to try the other drugs. I am already taking lamotrigine, which does not seem to do anything but cause skin patches. This is the problem with so many drugs, once your on them long enough, you cannot just stop taking them, and most drugs do not have tapering doses. Two reasons why I started tapering off of escitalopram:

 

1.) It caused me to be on edge all the time, irritable, aggressive, strongly speaking my mind, just no calmness at all, actually very depressing.

2.) I asked my psychiatrist if we can reduce the dose, and he reduced from 20 mg to 10 mg. Within 2 days I could no longer control my thoughts and feelings, the worst fear, paranoia, anxiety and suicidal ideation I have ever felt. I kept telling myself this is not real, don't give in to those feelings, but it was as if I was kidnapped by my brain as a bystander watching myself going insane and not being able to stop it. So I took 10 extra mg of escitalopram, and within half an hour or so all the withdrawal effects stopped and I was "normal" again. I put normal in quotation marks because I have never been normal. I now recall many instances of various antidepressants I was on, during 30 years of my life, and unknowingly stopped them, not realizing that my bad behavior came from withdrawal or negative reactions while on those drugs.

 

If I run out of escitalopram for two days I would go insane. I do not ever want to feel that way again. I desperately want to get off this drug. It is far worse than any drug I have ever stopped taking. I successfully stopped Tramadol, Seroquel, Trazodone and clonazepam, but SSRIs or SNRIs are the most dangerous drugs and should be outlawed when everyone on them has successfully tapered off. Unfortunately there are perhaps 40 million people on them in the United States alone. Since the companies of these and other harmful drugs are trillion dollar corporations a trillion dollar lawsuit would be necessary to pay for, counteract all the damage, fund the tapering, and compensate all the victims and their families, while bypassing the Supreme Court that ruled that no one could sue a drug company for damages if the drug was approved by the FDA, the FDA apparently does not take responsibility for damages. I cannot find a lawyer to take on my and my wife's case for damages and enough money to get at least my wife off of the debilitating depakote.

 

Now for my conundrum: I am back on 10 ml of escitalopram. I don't want to be on it that high. I already successfully tapered to 3 ml before.

Can I lower to 5 ml without bad withdrawals and start tapering again, after a few days of recuperating?

Edited June 18, 2023 by Shep
moved post from another thread, added the original title, added spaces between paragraphs

[Altostrata]

What drugs are you currently taking, at what times o'clock and dosages?

 

When did you start gabapentin? What was your latest dosage change? What effect does it have on you?

[Shep]

@BavarianPH Please note I moved your last post from another thread. Please continue posting here in your original intro/update thread so all of your information is in one place.  

[manymoretodays]

Hi BavarianPH, @BavarianPH

On 6/15/2023 at 3:16 PM, BavarianPH said:

Now for my conundrum: I am back on 10 ml of escitalopram. I don't want to be on it that high. I already successfully tapered to 3 ml before.

Can I lower to 5 ml without bad withdrawals and start tapering again, after a few days of recuperating?

 

I quoted a portion of one of your posts too, as well as notifying you by using the @ followed by your name so you can find your way back here to your topic.  I just saw your PM(private message).

 

This is where you post for now, this is your topic, your Introduction, and it is best to keep all your information here right now.

 

Now you can read the above.  Answer the questions clearly posted above as well.

 

You'll see an open reply box in which to reply below my post.  Once you've got a reply then just click the submit reply button when you are done.

 

You'll get it.......it often does takes some time, and if you are presently comprimised by WD(withdrawal) symptoms........just be patient with yourself.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

Generally, if it's only been a few days since a change.......it's okay to go back to your desired dosage.  We do want to take a look at ALL your present drugs too.  To get a clearer picture of what is going on, to best support and advise you.

Edited June 18, 2023 by manymoretodays
addendum

[manymoretodays]

Hi again BVPh,  I added/edited a bit more at the end of my last post.  And I encourage you to stick around.......it CAN seem really confusing when first arriving here for many.  It can and does improve.  We generally do our best to get to members, as staff.......and mentors and other members are also invaluable to helping to keep things going here.  Everyone helps out, helps each other.

[BavarianPH]

thank you for sharing your story and replying to my writing.

I am 65 years old and take care of my 56 year old wife, who is on depakote, propranolol, seroquel, lasix, potassium, and my 36 year old daughter on 2 antidepressants and anxiety meds. We live on $801/month. 

As of yet I am very afraid to lower escitalopram but I don't want to get stuck either. My psychiatrist wanted to immediately dump more meds on me as I previously wrote. I will not go on more addicting drugs.

I am taking 137 mg synthroid, 500 mg metformin, 100 mg lamotrigine, 2 g of fish oil with D, a diabetic multivitamin, 800 mg ibuprofen 2x daily usually, and 600 mg gabapentin. The last 2 help with sleep and my very bad back.

2 things that kept me from going insane after the severe withdrawal: benadryl for 2 days (which unfortunately makes me extremely hyper) and 2x daily 0.5 mg clonazepam for 2 or 3 days (which helped extremely well, but is of course addicting, and the doc will no longer prescribe it), went back to 10 mg lexapro and stopped those 2 other drugs.

Clonazepam takes all my fear, paranoia and anxiety away and I wish it was no addictive. Without it there is some of the aforementioned, but manageable, I have tried Silexan 160 mg (lavender) which helps somewhat. I have to settle down and gather the courage to lower the lexapro and start tapering again.

Anyway, please continue to advise me.

With appreciation,

BavarianPH

[Altostrata]

@BavarianPH Do you feel any continuing withdrawal effects?

[BavarianPH]

Had to take 300 mg oxcarbazepine 2x daily, or the panic, anxiety, fear is overwhelming, even at 10 ml escitalopram.

Even now there are these strong negative feelings in the background. My scalp feels like it's moving around or throbbing.

I have had bad anemia, meningitis of the brain when I was 8 or 10 years old (meningitis due to a ultraviolet heat lamp at the hospital), almost died from it. I have always been sick (anemia, tonsillitis, infections, etc.), with very bad depression all my life. 

The only thing that fully alleviates the feelings now is clonazepam.

 

 

[BavarianPH]

I emailed this to Jim Harper from The Road Back Program:

For the last 6 months, or so, I have tapered off escitalopram.

I felt much better at 4 ml (fluid form).

The aggression, need to talk constantly, the pushing of the drug had subsided substantially.

Then I began to experience anxiety, fear, paranoia and finally outright panic, 

to the point of wanting to throw myself in front of a semi-truck.

The bottom fell out at 1.8 ml. I tapered way too fast.

I took benadryl, which helped but caused mania.

Finally I took 0.5 mg clonazepam, then 0.25 mg 2x daily, which completely stopped all negative feelings.

My psychiatrist would no longer prescribe clonazepam. Told me to go back to 10 ml escitalopram.

He prescribed 600 mg gabapentin 3x daily, 300 mg oxcarbazepine 2x daily, which works. (I also have a very bad spine with much pain)

Still some fear and panic in the background. Now I am afraid of tapering, and don't even know where to start.

I have been taking 2000 mg of Omega-3 fish oil, with1000 IU D3, and a diabetic multivitamin, in the morning for over 6 months.

Your supplement formulas sound intriguing, but we live on $801/month. I cannot afford them.

Thus the dilemma again, poor people end up sicker and stay poor.

I have consulted https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/ for more help. So far not much. 

I have consulted psychiatrists; they are totally ignorant of what these drugs actually do, especially withdrawals.

I have read the books "Discontinuing Antidepressant Medications" by Giovanni A. Fava - and 

"Psychotherapy of Character" by Robert Berezin, M.D.

I have also intensely researched psychotropics and drugs. 

Such as drug trials, madinamerica.com, Peter C Gøtzsche, MD "Critical psychiatry textbook (2022)"

Dr Mark Horowitz https://markhorowitz.org/

I full-heartedly support the idea of the damage and stopping psychotropics. 

Here is my rather condensed story about my wife:

April 6, 2021: My wife unknowingly stopped 20 mg of Celexa, (also an earlier drop of nortriptyline from 150 mg to 75 mg), and within 5 days she had aggression and then catatonic symptoms, and went to Peak view mental hospital, CO. Springs, CO. 

She was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder with bipolar 1.

When discharged, we were not told that they put her back on Celexa, they also put her on olanzapine. 

The psychiatrist took her off olanzapine and put her on Ativan, not knowing that she was in extreme withdrawal from Celexa. 

Back to the hospital. This time they took her off 75 mg nortriptyline cold-turkey, and wondered why she became extremely aggressive and manic.

Then total psychosis with extreme rage, with suicide attempt. 

This time to Cedar Springs mental hospital CO. Springs, CO, where she was punched in the eye by a patient.

Diagnosed with Major depressive disorder. Took her off Ativan, put on Olanzapine and Depakote. 

And again we were not told that they put her on Depakote.

So after extreme rage, she was taken back to Cedar Springs and discharged again; 

with me pleading to tell me what other drug they put her on and to write a prescription. 

Later put on escitalopram, Rexulti, larger dose of Depakote ER. Had very bad spasms.

Now tapered down to no escitalopram (a far too fast taper by psychiatrists, I hope there is no fallout later),

Tapered down to 25 mg quetiapine, switched from 250 depakote ER to 125 depakote DR in the morning, 

and still on 500 mg Depakote in the evening. She is foggy, can't wake up, unable to speak or think properly.

All of this because of antidepressants and extreme withdrawal. 

If you can help in any way, please advise.

How do I copy this to my update stream?

[manymoretodays]

The more I use the forum, the more lost I get. I think I accidentally erased my content or send it to moderators or members but not also to my stream.

 

I need detailed, step by step instructions, please. I cannot find the numerous, lengthy comments I wrote.

How long will these delirious withdrawals go on, tapering too fast to 1.8 ml escitalopram, than going back to 10 ml, and having to go on 600 mg of gabapentin 2-3x daily and 300x oxcarbazepine so as not to kill myself or turn myself into a mental hospital. Does anyone else have thes extreme withdrawals that give then uncontrollable and lasting for days horrible anxiety, fear, panic, paranoia?

I almost wish I would have never tried to taper. I need my sanity to take care of my family.

 

Hi BavarianPH, @BavarianPH

The best I can do right now is copy your PM to me, right here in your topic.  So that is now right here, above this text.  I think all your content is right here now.  And I'm so sorry.  I was just signed in for a minute and do need to get on now with my own responsibilities off site.

 

?- are you working with The Road Back Program and Jim Harper right now?  Or just frantically reaching out all over for help at this point? 

 

I see yesterday you felt much calmer.  That's in your signature.  That information can go in your narrative replies in reply boxes, when you update.  The signature is more for updates specific to your drug(s)/medications, and a good summary of your drug history.

 

Hoping that some of yesterdays calm comes up for you again today.  See:

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Likely a good sign that you have some Windows now, in that you may be stabilizing a bit......important to do before any further tapering or drug changes.

 

I did see that you are caretaker for other family members too.  That post is above in Your Topic, Your String, Your Introduction now.  They would have to start their own topic here, for us to help them too.  And at this point with you and your current medication situation, distress, tapering.........you do need to be patient with us.

 

Why don't you try a daily drug and symptom log or notes for us next.  Use this format:  daily drug and symptoms log

If that isn't easily doable right now, then just list the times on the left, and then to the right of those times, your current drugs by name, and dose, as well as any supplements taken by name and dosage.

Do stay regular with your drug timing(s) right now.  Same drug, and take it at the same time of day.  Consistency with drugs and dosing can pay off as far as leading to greater stability prior to any further drug changes.

 

I'm sure we all wish we had time to attend to every single poster and all their needs and distress, on the spot, at the moment.  It would be impossible though.  Hang on, hang in.  I really do need to get offline now.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[BavarianPH]

Jim Harper has not replied. His supplemental formulas to help ease withdrawal are $104, ouch.

We live on my social security disability $801/month.

There is also https://www.alternativetomeds.com/blog/guide-tips-for-medication-tapering-and-titration/ but nothing specific. They have programs for helping to detox and taper, but that's for the rich or well to do.

I have researched every day 1 to 8 hours, since April 11, 2021 when my wife had a mental breakdown. I knew nothing then, and I am furious that not one psychiatrist even suspected Celexa withdrawal. Matter of fact they gave her Celexa again, and she was back to normal, but then they did not tell me and gave me a subscription of Olanzapine, which she did not need. The Celexa withdrawal caused catatonic-like symptoms which they mistook for psychosis and bipolar. It all spiraled down from there.

She cannot do her own topic, I would have to do it for her.

I must be stable for her and my daughter. Thank you very much for your help. I also communicate with other moderators like Altostrata.I am very grateful for these forums, they give us all hope to free ourselves from mind-altering and damaging drugs. And the intense fear and the desire to end it for good was so scary, that I don't want, cannot ever feel that way again. If that means not to taper anymore or being on other drugs to keep the fear at bay, then that's what I need to do. I cannot risk wanting to commit suicide and actually attempting it. I will do anything possible to avoid that.

[Altostrata]

Jim Harper owns a number of supplement companies. Three of them are Truehope, The Road Back, and Hardy Nutritionals.

 

Please read this topic carefully. There are many hucksters in mental health preying on vulnerable, desperate people.

[BavarianPH]

Thank you

[Altostrata]

Sorry, here's the topic

 

 

If we knew of effective supplements, tests, miracle cures, etc., we would tell you.

[BavarianPH]

I am so Stupid. Am I updating my stream now or am I replying to Altostrata?

Where is my update link so I can continue to write?

Who is the best least busiest person to ask for help?

I tried to start at 4 ml escitalopram today, June 26, 2023, got a headache and pressure, so I went up to 9 ml, 1 less than yesterday.

I have read that going back too high may cause worse withdrawal, it has been 15 days (June 11) since 1.8 ml extreme withdrawal.

June 12 to 5 ml, June 14 to 10 ml, June 26 to 9 ml. I don't know anything anymore, I just want to get better. Having difficulty sleeping.

Maybe I need to go on divalproex for a while to stabilize since clonazepam is no longer prescribed. 0.25 mg 2x daily makes me feel close to "normal" again.

 

 

[Altostrata]

You are correctly posting in your Introductions topic.

 

It appears you changed your dosing of escitalopram and gabapentin at the same time. To figure out what to do, we advise people to change only one drug at a time.

 

On 6/15/2023 at 2:15 PM, Altostrata said:

Please stop tapering or adding anything until we can sort this out.

 

On 6/15/2023 at 5:25 PM, BavarianPH said:

2023 June 12 escitalopram back to 5 mg, June 14 10 mg (by advice of psychiatrist)

 

What drug changes have you made since June 12?

 

[BavarianPH]

Gabapentin from 600 mg 2x to 300 2x as it was before June 16.

I feel no difference with or without gabapentin

300 mg 2x oxcarbazepine - kidney pain, dizziness, constipation.

10 ml of escitalopram June 14 - too late to go lower?

Difficulty sleeping, 4 to 5 hours/night

Will ask psychiatrist for low dose of divalproex DR for sleep and substitute it for oxcarbazepine

[Altostrata]

When did you make these changes? Please supply dates.

 

What times o'clock are you currently taking your drugs, with their dosages?

[BavarianPH]

my signature explains some of that.

Escitalopram 10 ml 10 am

lamotrigine 100 mg 10 am

2 grams of fish oil with D3 1000 IU 10 am

oxcarbazepine 300 mg 10 am, 9 to 10 pm I need to stretch it to last.

gabapentin 300 mg 10 am, 9 to 10 pm

levothyroxine 137 mcg 10 pm

Metformin 1000 mg 10 am

[Altostrata]

Why are you taking escitalopram, oxcarbazepine, gabapentin and lamotrigine (plus metformin) at the same time in the morning?

 

Why are you taking oxcarbazepine and gabapentin at the same time in the evening?

 

Please put ALL your current drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php

and copy and paste the results or a link to them in this topic.

 

5 minutes ago, BavarianPH said:

oxcarbazepine 300 mg 10 am, 9 to 10 pm I need to stretch it to last.

 

What do you mean, "I need to stretch it to last"? You started it only 10 days ago, on July 18, correct? Why was this added to your cocktail?

 

Please stop tapering or adding anything until we can sort this out. If you continue to change your drugs, we can't help you.

[BavarianPH]

This is by instructions from my primary and my psychiatrist.

I am following their instruction.

I really am ignorant about when to take the drugs, even more so on sticking on an exact time.

The oxcarbazepine 300 mg 2x a day was added because my extreme panic, fear and anxiety,

right now without the oxcarbazepine 300 mg 2x a day I would be so freaked out become suicidal or end up in the mental hospital.

This is what tapering to 1.8 ml escitalopram did to me, literally drove me to the brink of a mental breakdown.

My family depend on me for everything. I have to be stable enough.

[Altostrata]

22 hours ago, BavarianPH said:

right now without the oxcarbazepine 300 mg 2x a day I would be so freaked out become suicidal or end up in the mental hospital.

 

Why do you think this? You're taking 5 psychiatric drugs plus metformin and levothyroxine.

 

You just added clonazepam?

 

We cannot assist you if you keep changing your drugs. Please let us know when you are willing to reduce your drug burden.