Alexmember: venlafaxine,protracted withdrawal symptoms help

[Alexmember]

Hi all,  would appreciate advice if anyone else has had a similar experience

 

I've recently stopped venlafaxine. Now 6 weeks off after tapering down to 37.5mg over a few months then stopping completely. 

Prior to that I had been on venlafaxine for 8 years doses between 150mg and 75mg. 

I stopped as felt flat on it and that did not need it any more. 

first few weeks I had bad physical symptoms - flushes, sweats, nausea, vertigo, brain zaps, nightmares and shakes.

 

 In the last week I've had intense panic episodes/general feeling of dread. Incredibly tearful, ongoing insomnia and severe feeling of restlessness despite feeling exhausted. 

My doctor has put me on 50mg of sertraline in the hope it helps. 

 

Has anyone else had this experiencing with venlafaxine and came through the other side? I'm starting to lose hope of ever feeling normal again.

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  It sounds to me like you had withdrawal from tapering off the venlafaxine too quickly.  Unfortunately the vast majority of doctors taper their patients off these drugs too fast.  The symptoms you describe are classic symptoms of withdrawal from antidepressant medication.  

 

Question: Is your goal to get off of psychiatric drugs eventually?  

 

Question: What day in July, as best you can remember, did you stop the venlafaxine completely? 

 

Question:  What day in August did you start the sertraline?  

 

Question: Has the sertraline helped any of your symptoms, and if so, which ones?  

 

It is also unfortunate that many doctors will put their patients on another psych drug in an attempt to correct withdrawal symptoms.  Sometimes this may help, but oftentimes it may complicate the situation.  We on this site find that a more reliable way to combat withdrawal is to do a small reinstatement of the drug that your brain is already dependent upon, stabilizing, then gradually tapering off that in the future.  

 

Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms: 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

I just want to reassure you, that given the proper self care, you can recover from PWS/PAWS. The not so good news is it takes a long time, but the good news is, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.  When I get the answers to your questions above, one of us can give you more specific suggestions as to what to do.  

[Alexmember]

On 8/23/2023 at 8:06 PM, getofflex said:

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  It sounds to me like you had withdrawal from tapering off the venlafaxine too quickly.  Unfortunately the vast majority of doctors taper their patients off these drugs too fast.  The symptoms you describe are classic symptoms of withdrawal from antidepressant medication.  

 

Question: Is your goal to get off of psychiatric drugs eventually?  

 

Question: What day in July, as best you can remember, did you stop the venlafaxine completely? 

 

Question:  What day in August did you start the sertraline?  

 

Question: Has the sertraline helped any of your symptoms, and if so, which ones?  

 

It is also unfortunate that many doctors will put their patients on another psych drug in an attempt to correct withdrawal symptoms.  Sometimes this may help, but oftentimes it may complicate the situation.  We on this site find that a more reliable way to combat withdrawal is to do a small reinstatement of the drug that your brain is already dependent upon, stabilizing, then gradually tapering off that in the future.  

 

Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms: 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

I just want to reassure you, that given the proper self care, you can recover from PWS/PAWS. The not so good news is it takes a long time, but the good news is, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.  When I get the answers to your questions above, one of us can give you more specific suggestions as to what to do.  

 

Hi thanks for your reply. 

 

My goal would eventually be to get of psychiatric drugs completely but after this frightening experience I'm now very cautious of doing so. 

I stopped the venlafaxine on the 8/07/23.

started sertraline on the 15/08/23.

I have since restarted venlafaxine (21/08/23) due to reading around and seeing that reinstatement is often better than starting a new drug that your brain is not accustomed to. 

I didn't find any relief from the sertraline that I noticed however was only on it for a short period 15/08/23 - 20/08/23.

Having restarted venlafaxine at 37.5mg once daily I am starting to feel better. sleep better, less terror/anxiety surges, mood a bit better and less tearful. 

My plan is to continue on this dose for a least 6 months before trying a tapper of any sort and give my body and brain time to settle again.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @Alexmember

 

53 minutes ago, Alexmember said:

Having restarted venlafaxine at 37.5mg once daily I am starting to feel better. sleep better, less terror/anxiety surges, mood a bit better and less tearful. 

My plan is to continue on this dose for a least 6 months before trying a tapper of any sort and give my body and brain time to settle again.

 

Good to hear, that's the right thing to do for withdrawal syndrome. I hope you have realized your doctor doesn't know this fundamental guideline. Perhaps you can educate your doctor about it.

 

FYI Tips for tapering off venlafaxine (Effexor)

 

Please let us know how you're doing. 

[Alexmember]

Hi everyone, I have a question about l reinstatement and symptoms. 

 

I've been back on 37.5mg of Effexor for 15 days now after reinstating due to severe withdrawal symptoms- described above - having gone cold turkey (my not so amazing idea very much learned) from 37.mg to 0mg on the 8th of July 2023 to the 21st of August 2023.

 

I've found it has helped alleviate my symptoms overall (extreme anxiety surges, weeping, low mood, mood swings, insomnia). 
 

However there are times I feel I go back to square 1 and my symptoms are as bad as ever despite the reinstatement. Particularly im struggling with a sheer 10/10 terror/panic feeling mostly of thoughts associated with death, dying, and existence. 
 

im familiar with the thread of stabilisation and ‘windows and waves’ and understand my nervous system has been shaken up.

 

question: Is this windows and waves pattern what happens with reinstatement too? Can I expect symptoms to settle with time? 
 

im looking for some hope to cling on to. I’ve never felt anything like this even when first starting antidepressants. I feel exhausted and like I’m living in a separate world to others. 
 

thank you in advance for any support.

[getofflex]

On 8/26/2023 at 3:09 PM, Alexmember said:

I stopped the venlafaxine on the 8/07/23.

Please put your dates in this format: July 7 '23, because here in the USA 8/7/23 means August 7.  This threw me off.  Thank you.  

 

58 minutes ago, Alexmember said:

question: Is this windows and waves pattern what happens with reinstatement too? Can I expect symptoms to settle with time? 

Yes, it is.  And, yes, they will.  

 

Reinstatement will reduce withdrawal, but it will take some time for your nervous system to continue to sort itself out.  It's a really good sign that you had some significant improvements in the first 15 days.  It can take several months though, for a restatement to reach its full effect.  I would not suggest changing your dose at this time, as that puts your at risk of further destabilizing your nervous system, and making yourself much worse.  I believe that as you hold for the 6 months, like you said you intended to do, that these symptoms and waves will settle down.  They may not go away altogether.  Our nervous systems are extremely complex, and there are billions of nerve cells that must adjust each and every time we make a drug change (dose reduction, increase, new drug, stopping drug, etc.).   That is why we emphasize stability so much on this site.  

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

Please read this link thoroughly.  It will really help!

 

Techniques for Managing Withdrawal

 

58 minutes ago, Alexmember said:

I feel exhausted and like I’m living in a separate world to others. 

Welcome to the club.  Many if not most of us on here feel the same way.  You are not alone.  It is all part of tapering and withdrawal.  This living in a separate world feeling may be depersonalization/derealization, which is a very common WD symptom.  It will gradually go away in time.  Mine did, and it took a very long time.   

 

Derealization/Depersonalization

 

58 minutes ago, Alexmember said:

im looking for some hope to cling on to.

Feeling hopeless and despair is a nasty trick that our withdrawal brain plays on us.  Especially when we get hit with a wave, and feel like we have just gone back to square 1.  But the truth is, we haven't really gone back to square 1, even though it feels like it!  Healing of our brain is a very nonlinear process.  This link will give a great analogy about why this is so. 

 

What is Happening in Your Brain? (Explains why recovery takes so long)

 

It is important to try to remind yourself that this is just the WD talking, and it is not the truth.  There is lots of hope for you, but it takes tons of time, and loads of patience.   To help, please read the success stories.  

 

Success Stories

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by getofflex

[BigCat]

Welcome, I am tapering off this dirty drug too.

With you on this one.

Depersonalisation?  My lovely psychiatrist thought I was dissociating!  

Very best wishes. 

[BigCat]

1 hour ago, Alexmember said:

Hi everyone, I have a question about l reinstatement and symptoms. 

 

I've been back on 37.5mg of Effexor for 15 days now after reinstating due to severe withdrawal symptoms- described above - having gone cold turkey (my not so amazing idea very much learned) from 37.mg to 0mg on the 8th of July 2023 to the 21st of August 2023.

 

I've found it has helped alleviate my symptoms overall (extreme anxiety surges, weeping, low mood, mood swings, insomnia). 
 

However there are times I feel I go back to square 1 and my symptoms are as bad as ever despite the reinstatement. Particularly im struggling with a sheer 10/10 terror/panic feeling mostly of thoughts associated with death, dying, and existence. 
 

im familiar with the thread of stabilisation and ‘windows and waves’ and understand my nervous system has been shaken up.

 

question: Is this windows and waves pattern what happens with reinstatement too? Can I expect symptoms to settle with time? 
 

im looking for some hope to cling on to. I’ve never felt anything like this even when first starting antidepressants. I feel exhausted and like I’m living in a separate world to others. 
 

thank you in advance for any support.

I have felt all of these things, and yet not when I was depressed.  Jeezo, the weeping!  Absolutely exhausting...  I will try to look in on you when able. 

[getofflex]

1 hour ago, Alexmember said:

Particularly im struggling with a sheer 10/10 terror/panic feeling mostly of thoughts associated with death, dying, and existence. 

 

Here is a thread about that.  It sounds like a typical WD neuro emotion. 

 

Fear of Death and Dying

 

Neuroemotions

 

I strongly suggest you try these techniques to help temper this symptom: 

 

video: Claire Weekes on Anxiety and Panic

 

Emotional Spirals

 

Acknowledge Accept Float

 

Music to Calm Anxiety

 

Breathing Technique for Anxiety

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

15 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes) Female voice - getselfhelp.co.uk

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes) Male voice - getselfhelp.co.uk

 

Meditation

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

[Alexmember]

16 hours ago, BigCat said:

I have felt all of these things, and yet not when I was depressed.  Jeezo, the weeping!  Absolutely exhausting...  I will try to look in on you when able. 

 it's nice to know someone else has felt the same. You start to feel like you're losing your mind. I'm finding it hard to explain to family and friends and I think they find it hard to understand. 

It's a devil of a drug, I can't agree with you more on that one! 

[Alexmember]

15 hours ago, getofflex said:

 

Here is a thread about that.  It sounds like a typical WD neuro emotion. 

 

Fear of Death and Dying

 

Neuroemotions

 

I strongly suggest you try these techniques to help temper this symptom: 

 

video: Claire Weekes on Anxiety and Panic

 

Emotional Spirals

 

Acknowledge Accept Float

 

Music to Calm Anxiety

 

Breathing Technique for Anxiety

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

15 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes) Female voice - getselfhelp.co.uk

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes) Male voice - getselfhelp.co.uk

 

Meditation

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

thank you - I'll take a look.

[Catina7]

Hi @Alexmember, you're in good company with those of us on Venlafaxine/Effexor.  I didn't reinstate, but I did an updose when I got down to about 12 mg.  I've been dealing with bad anxiety that worsens with stress.  I've been holding at 37.5 mg for about two years now and am afraid to make a move for fear it will make things worse.

 

This site has great advice.  Just read as much as you can and find ways to cope with your symptoms.  Also, the support from other members is invaluable as you realize you're not alone in this fight.  

 

Sending you hugs...

 

Catina ❤️

[NotQuiteMyself]

On 8/26/2023 at 9:09 PM, Alexmember said:

reading around and seeing that reinstatement is often better than starting a new drug that your brain is not accustomed to. 

Hi.

 

I wish I'd known this all those times I went through WD and the doctor picked out a new drug for me to try. No one suggested reinstatement of any of the drugs I was put onto. How much more confused must the brain become when it's experienced a cocktail of different drugs rather than trying to function properly without the one it's used to? And why prescribe stimulating ADs to someone whose principal trigger is insomnia?

 

Good luck with your reinstatement. Hopefully things will settle down for you on your current dose and you can go at it more slowly.

 

 

[Guest]

@Alexmember  I'm currently going through a very similar ordeal, although I was not on Venlafaxine for as long as you were. However, my dose was higher and my taper even more irresponsible (although it was conservative compared to the idiotic taper recommended by my ignorant doctor). I simply walked off a cliff. It's possible I'd be close to home free by now if I had started a responsible taper back in June/July.

 

But now, like you, I'm dealing with PWS and the uncertainty of whether/when reinstatement is actually going to lead to stabilization, which will allow me to conduct a responsibly slow taper at some point. When I first reinstated 2.25mg (9 beads) about 10 days ago, I noticed an immediate improvement over the next few days. However, several of the past few days haven't been so great, which gets me concerned about my progress.

 

After reading the many informative threads on this website, it seems that reinstatement can take several weeks or even a few months to reach stabilization, and that window/wave patterns are common during this time. My symptoms may be slightly less bad than yours, but they still greatly interfere with my daily life. Today I had a low mood for most of the day accompanied by a constant queasy feeling in my gut. When that happens, it's hard for me to relax or enjoy anything that would normally interest me.

 

 

 

 

[Alexmember]

11 hours ago, Catina7 said:

Hi @Alexmember, you're in good company with those of us on Venlafaxine/Effexor.  I didn't reinstate, but I did an updose when I got down to about 12 mg.  I've been dealing with bad anxiety that worsens with stress.  I've been holding at 37.5 mg for about two years now and am afraid to make a move for fear it will make things worse.

 

This site has great advice.  Just read as much as you can and find ways to cope with your symptoms.  Also, the support from other members is invaluable as you realize you're not alone in this fight.  

 

Sending you hugs...

 

Catina ❤️

thank you Catina.

I have a medical background and thought I knew my neurophysiology but completely amazed by the effects antidepressants have obviously had on my brain, even at lower mg dose, which has become so clear when trying to stop.

Sorry to hear you are going through bad anxiety at the moment - it's a terrible feeling.

I know what you mean with holding out at 37.5mg, I thought I might start to taper again in 6 months time but in all honestly I think I'm also very scared of going down again and feeling how I did. 

Sending lots of support to you too in your journey. 

[Alexmember]

6 hours ago, NotQuiteMyself said:

Hi.

 

I wish I'd known this all those times I went through WD and the doctor picked out a new drug for me to try. No one suggested reinstatement of any of the drugs I was put onto. How much more confused must the brain become when it's experienced a cocktail of different drugs rather than trying to function properly without the one it's used to? And why prescribe stimulating ADs to someone whose principal trigger is insomnia?

 

Good luck with your reinstatement. Hopefully things will settle down for you on your current dose and you can go at it more slowly.

 

 

 Thank you. 

I can't imagine what it must have been like for you trying multiple antidepressants - getting use to one of them is bad enough. 

 

I think UK guidelines are slowly changing to recognise that with WD symptoms reinstatement of original drug is they way to go. Unfortunately I think there is so little research into this area and long term effects of AD drugs on the brain. We are only learning through those like ourselves who have had the awful experience of withdrawing. 

[Alexmember]

5 hours ago, Alltimegreat1 said:

@Alexmember  I'm currently going through a very similar ordeal, although I was not on Venlafaxine for as long as you were. However, my dose was higher and my taper even more irresponsible (although it was conservative compared to the idiotic taper recommended by my ignorant doctor). I simply walked off a cliff. It's possible I'd be close to home free by now if I had started a responsible taper back in June/July.

 

But now, like you, I'm dealing with PWS and the uncertainty of whether/when reinstatement is actually going to lead to stabilization, which will allow me to conduct a responsibly slow taper at some point. When I first reinstated 2.25mg (9 beads) about 10 days ago, I noticed an immediate improvement over the next few days. However, several of the past few days haven't been so great, which gets me concerned about my progress.

 

After reading the many informative threads on this website, it seems that reinstatement can take several weeks or even a few months to reach stabilization, and that window/wave patterns are common during this time. My symptoms may be slightly less bad than yours, but they still greatly interfere with my daily life. Today I had a low mood for most of the day accompanied by a constant queasy feeling in my gut. When that happens, it's hard for me to relax or enjoy anything that would normally interest me.

 

 

 

 

Its definitely difficult when there's no certainty if reinstatement will guarantee stabilisation but It looks like we are both early on in our reinstatement journey so here's hoping there's room for ongoing improvement. I've also been reading up a lot on the reinstatement threads and they having some good initial response is a positive thing. Perhaps we just have to be patient which is very hard when the symptoms hit and life feels like it is on hold. 

 

I've been keeping a basic diary tracking mood to help see the overall pattern. I think it helps put things into perspective when you've had a bad day of symptoms. I also get the feeling where its hard to relax - being exhausted but unable to relax in torture. 

 

I'll make sure to follow your progress - the best of luck in your journey.

[Guest]

Thanks. I will follow your progress as well. I'm feeling a bit better today after having gotten better sleep last night. That seems to make a big difference for me. I use an all-natural sleep aid.

 

A few things that might help at least a little bit while coping with withdrawal:

 

No alcohol at all. Not even a small sip of beer.

Limit caffeine.

Stay well hydrated by drinking a lot of water.

Get some light exercise everyday, if you can. Take walks and light weight training with dumbbells, etc. Try to target every major muscle group, including legs. Just enough to get your blood flowing. Don't over exert yourself.

 

[Alexmember]

@Alltimegreat1 yes, I’ve completely stopped caffeine and alcohol for the last 3 weeks and although miss it, it’s a small price to pay for improvement in general anxiety. 
I’m going to get back into regular exercise - I’d be interested in knowing, have you noticed a difference to your WD symptoms with exercising like weight training?

[Guest]

Exercise definitely helps while doing it and for about an hour afterward. I also think doing it regularly has a general mood-boosting effect, albeit maybe a small one. What do you think?

[Alexmember]

7 hours ago, Alltimegreat1 said:

Exercise definitely helps while doing it and for about an hour afterward. I also think doing it regularly has a general mood-boosting effect, albeit maybe a small one. What do you think?

Before going through withdrawal I would've completely agreed with you. During the last few weeks I've been in in too much of a black hole to do much more than walking but hoping to try to push myself to get back to it and see what impact it has.

[getofflex]

In my opinion and experience, gentle exercise is best when we are in withdrawal.  I have found strenuous exercise will ramp up my symptoms.  What works for me is walking outside for 30-60 minutes.  

[Altostrata]

@Alexmember How are you feeling now compared to the beginning of August?

[Alexmember]

@Altostrata thanks for checking in. much better than start of August. 

 

Still experiencing sleep difficulties, some restlessness, anxiety surges and intrusive thoughts but it seems to be all slowly getting less intense. All seems to be worse in the evening and at night. (I take my meds in the morning around 9am) I can't even begin to describe the intensity before, It was on a whole other level I've never experienced. 

 

Having small windows for a few hours here and there. It's still early days being back on venlafaxine so I am hoping things continue to improve. 

[BigCat]

On 9/5/2023 at 5:06 PM, NotQuiteMyself said:

 

I wish I'd known this all those times I went through WD and the doctor picked out a new drug for me to try.

 

Like you, and many others, just glad I know now.  I am actively trying not to regret or resent, although I do allow myself some sadness, which seems appropriate.  

[BigCat]

18 hours ago, Alexmember said:

@Altostrata thanks for checking in. much better than start of August. 

 

Still experiencing sleep difficulties, some restlessness, anxiety surges and intrusive thoughts but it seems to be all slowly getting less intense. All seems to be worse in the evening and at night.

 

The intrusive thoughts?  Absolutely.  I try to remind myself that they are just thoughts, only thoughts, and that they will pass if I don't engage with them, don't try to push them away or contradict them, simply observe them as nonsensical symptoms of my withdrawal. 

Observer not participant.  Let them flow past you.  Night is always difficult- you need a strong distraction/fantasy/story/positive narrative to sooth yourself.

Big hug. 

 

[Alexmember]

4 hours ago, BigCat said:

observe them as nonsensical symptoms of my withdrawal.

I think it's the part of withdrawal I'm struggling with the most. 

At times I feel more distanced from them but other times they just have me on the floor and in full panic mode and I can't see past them.

Thanks, I'm going to try some of the previous suggested techniques. 

I've found incessant reading sometimes helps. 

I guess it's all part of the rollercoaster we did not realise we signed up for. 

[getofflex]

Intrusive thoughts can be distressing - I used to experience these a lot, but this has slowly improved.  Here is a technique that can help with intrusive thoughts:  

 

APPLE Technique

 

I just came across a very nice technique that really helps me.  It's called APPLE. I have printed it and have it where I can see it every day and be reminded of it so I internalize this technique. 

 

A - Acknowledge Notice and acknowledge the thought or uncertainty as it comes to mind. 

 

P - Pause Don't react as you normally do.  Don't react at all.  Just pause and breathe.   

 

P - Pull Back Tell yourself this is just the thought or worry talking, and this apparent need for worry or analysis or certainty is not helpful and not necessary.  It is only a thought or feeling.  Don't believe everything you think.  Thoughts are not statements or facts.   

 

L - Let Go Let go of the thought or feeling.  It will pass.  You don't have to respond to it.  You might imagine the thought floating away in a bubble or cloud.   

 

E - Explore Explore the present moment, because right now, in this moment, you are OK.  Notice your breathing and the sensations of your breathing.  Notice the ground beneath you.  Look around and notice what you see, what you hear, what you can touch, what you can smell.  Right now.  Then shift your focus of attention to something else - on what you need to do, on what you were doing before you noticed the thought or worry, or do something else - mindfully - with your full attention.  

[NotQuiteMyself]

12 hours ago, BigCat said:

Like you, and many others, just glad I know now.  I am actively trying not to regret or resent, although I do allow myself some sadness, which seems appropriate.  

I know there’s nothing to be gained from regret, but I am still angry. I still feel that if I’d been in a state to think clearly for myself that day when I was first prescribed the double-whammy of ADs and Z drugs, I might have pushed ahead with my career and have been able to live my life the way I would have chosen to. The NHS have not understood or offered any help, only more of the same. I was bullied into an escalated withdrawal and don’t get me started on our GPs’ attitude to withdrawal syndrome. I want to move on and be thankful that I’m coming out the other side. I’m not there yet.

 

 

[Alexmember]

looking for advice on up dosing?

 

I have a doctors appointment in a week and I'm wondering if I should increase to 75mg.

As my drug signature, I'd been on 75mg dose consistently for 3 years (with minimal problems - mild emotion blunting) before trying to tapper. 

At the moment I'm week 3 of reinstatement at 37.5mg. 

Overall improvement but typical windows and waves ongoing and still feel miles from being myself again. 

 

I know up dosing is not a magic wand, it's likely I will still have windows and waves at 75mg but feel it may still offer some improvement in the anxiety and panic symptoms I'm getting.

I'm regularly practicing cognitive techniques, breathing, daily walks, no alcohol or caffeine to help with my symptoms also. 

 

 

[BigCat]

@Alexmember

Taking a wider perspective... You are obviously struggling on 37.5mg.  So perhaps that's not sustainable for now.  Note: for now. 

 

In the big plan of things 75mg is eff all, you could cut yourself some slack, updose, stabilise and then regroup.  When you are stable, maybe a month or two, consider a 10% titration. Don't rush.  

 

If you get slow release XL capsules 75mg  then you can take the inside beads or mini-tabs out, measure the weight of beads (Info on here somewhere because I do it) then titrate down 10% as per Advice about Tapering.  It is a faff but worth it...

 

 

 

 

 

[getofflex]

3 hours ago, Alexmember said:

looking for advice on up dosing?

 

I have a doctors appointment in a week and I'm wondering if I should increase to 75mg.

Is your goal in updosing to try and decrease your anxiety and panic?  

 

I would not suggest this.  It is easy to think that because you did OK on 75 mg venlafaxine for 3 years in the past, that you should be OK on it now as well.  However, the truth is that as we go on and off and on drugs, and change our doses, our systems tend to become sensitized, and we are at risk of kindling.  This could make your symptoms much worse, and could take a very long time to recover from.  Please see this link:  

 

Post Withdrawal Nervous System Hypersensitivity - Kindling

 

Unfortunately, we see so many people here trying to fix their withdrawal symptoms by updosing, or by adding and changing drugs, and usually this just doesn't work.  More often than not, it just exacerbates the problem.  It only serves to further confuse and destabilize the nervous system.  

 

It can take several months for a reinstatement to take full effect, so please be patient.  You've only been on it for 3 week so far.  Please read this: 

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

In the meantime, please learn some additional non drug techniques for managing your anxiety and panic. It's great that you are already using some good techniques to help you anxiety and panic.  I strongly suggest Claire Weekes.  She talks about secondary anxiety, which means being anxious about our anxiety, which tends to create an upward spiral of anxiety.  She has some books and CD's you can find on amazon, so check those out.  

 

 

 

video: Claire Weekes: Managing Anxiety

 

video: Claire Weekes on Anxiety and Panic

 

Music to Calm Anxiety

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes) Male voice - getselfhelp.co.uk

 

Meditation

 

 

Another big one we talk about around here is acceptance.  

 

Acceptance

 

On 9/18/2021 at 1:42 PM, brassmonkey said:

Trusting that your body knows what needs to be done to heal and will do it naturally is one of the hardest parts of doing this. The amount of trust that we have to have is amazing and the ability to accept what happens and move through it, even if it isn't what we had planned, is equally so. We have all been taught to think things  through and do what we think is best, but sometimes our logic gets the best of us. We can think too much and see too many sides of the coin.

 

To me ADWD is proof that nature is in control despite what we think. In most cases we have to get out of the way and let it happen. We may want a specific outcome by next weekend, but the choice isn't ours. If our body wants to heal in that direction by them it may happen, but usually it needs to do something else, which it knows is more important for the healing process. It doesn't really care what our weekend plans are, but rather knows what it needs to do to heal.

 

Giving up that control is very hard because we think about the problem too much.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by getofflex

[Alexmember]

thanks for your response getofflex. 

 

I'll read through the links and try to give things a bit more time.

[BigCat]

On 9/10/2023 at 4:58 PM, getofflex said:

Is your goal in updosing to try and decrease your anxiety and panic?  

 

I would not suggest this.  It is easy to think that because you did OK on 75 mg venlafaxine for 3 years in the past, that you should be OK on it now as well.  However, the truth is that as we go on and off and on drugs, and change our doses, our systems tend to become sensitized, and we are at risk of kindling.  This could make your symptoms much worse, and could take a very long time to recover from.    

 

On 9/10/2023 at 4:58 PM, getofflex said:

 

 

 

 

The dose was 75mg until only recently.  Dropping 50% to 37.5mg is a huge amount. In hindsight it might seem like a well intentioned error.  8-12 weeks is a typical time to have "relapse" (or withdrawal reaction as we understand it) in most psych meds...  

Reinstating at 75mg (which is not the same as updosing in this case) is a valid choice.  "Kindling" is not a term that I am familiar with on this side of the Atlantic, but it would not appear that numerous "blowing up and down on doses" is what is described here.  

 

Truth?  We have to make our own choices based on the evidence that speaks to our experience.  Our emotions are fickle and unreliable.  What our bodies tell us needs to be interrogated in that knowledge. 

 

[BigCat]

52 minutes ago, BigCat said:

 

The dose was 75mg until only recently.  Dropping 50% to 37.5mg is a huge amount. In hindsight it might seem like a well intentioned error.  8-12 weeks is a typical time to have "relapse" (or withdrawal reaction as we understand it) in most psych meds...  

Reinstating at 75mg (which is not the same as updosing in this case) is a valid choice.  "Kindling" is not a term that I am familiar with on this side of the Atlantic, but it would not appear that numerous "blowing up and down on doses" is what is described here.  

 

Truth?  We have to make our own choices based on the evidence that speaks to our experience.  Our emotions are fickle and unreliable.  What our bodies tell us needs to be interrogated in that knowledge. 

 

I have looked up "kindling", and it seems to reference benzodiazepines/alcohol.  

[FireflyFyte]

2 hours ago, BigCat said:

I have looked up "kindling", and it seems to reference benzodiazepines/alcohol.  

 

Please read our documentation on kindling before making assumptions - Hypersensitivity and Kindling. It is not limited to benzos and alcohol as we have countless members here who have experienced it with antidepressants and other psychiatric medications.

 

3 hours ago, BigCat said:

The dose was 75mg until only recently.  Dropping 50% to 37.5mg is a huge amount. In hindsight it might seem like a well intentioned error.  8-12 weeks is a typical time to have "relapse" (or withdrawal reaction as we understand it) in most psych meds...  

 

According to their signature, their last dose of venlafaxine was 37.5mg so it is fair that is the dose they are on currently. Hopefully, with time, they can stabilize there and begin a slow taper to temper withdrawals going forward.