Steven2023: Hello, I'm new...

[Steven2023]

Hello everyone

 

I recently signed up to the SA forum and thought I'd introduce myself.   57yo male here living in Malaysia. I moved here recently (early retirement) from Australia. 

My GP in Australia put me on Citalopram (initially 20mg, then subsequently 40mg daily) for anxiety/depression (and related alcohol dependency) almost 30 years ago.

When I moved to Malaysia last year I discovered that GP's don't prescribe antidepressants.  Instead you have to see a psychiatrist. So I went to see one who switched me from Citalopram to Escitalopram (Lexapro).

I mentioned that I would like to look at coming off antidepressants, so he prescribed 10mg of Lexapro (as opposed to 20mg which would have been equivalent to the 40mg of citalopram).  

I didn't notice any adverse effects with the reduced dose.

A couple of months ago, I thought I'd half the dosage again, and so tried taking 5mg of Lexapro for a couple of days.   Big mistake.  I ended up having a sudden panic attack in a busy shopping mall.  It was horrible. I felt completely overwhelmed, thoughts of impending doom and just sheer panic.  My partner could see my state of distress so we quickly returned home and I took the extra 5mg.   Since then, I resumed the 10mg a day dose.

Recently, there was a 4Corners documentary on TV that showed other people having the same difficulty coming off SSRI's and it was reassuring (although disturbing) to find that many other people are in the same situation.

Up until then, I had no idea about having to taper off these meds and the severity of the withdrawal effects.

The documentary also mentioned this website (and the accounts of other "survivors"), which is thankfully how I ended up here.

So, I've bought myself a small digital weighing scale and a pill crusher and have started my journey of a gradual taper..

Anyhow, just thought I'd say hello and provide a brief intro..

Thank you for providing this valuable forum.

_________

Wednesday 6 September - Wednesday 20 September 2023 - 9mg Lexapro
 

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by FireflyFyte

[Onmyway]

Hi @Steven2023

welcome to SA. Very glad you found us and are avoiding the intense withdrawals that coming off of these meds can entail. 

 

It makes sense that you didn't feel as big of an effect coming off of the  

 

Thank you for filling in your signature. Could you also add in it the long term use of citalopram and escitalopram like you did tell us in the past, please. As well as the withdrawal reaction you had when you went from 10 to 5mg? 

It may alter our advice to you in the future. 

 

 

It makes sense that you did not feel the drop from 40mg citalopram to 10mg escitalopram. The drugs are more potent at the lower doses. So when you lower from 20 to 10 escitalopram, you are lowering 5%-10% potency but if you are lowering from 2.5mg to 0mg that is more than 50%. 

 

I am assuming that you have seen this? 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

In this process be careful with alcohol (not sure if you still drink) as it can interfere with withdrawal quite a lot and set you back. 

 

OMW

 

 

 

 

[Rosetta]

Welcome, Steven!  What a lucky man you are to have found this website at the right time.  This is a dream come true for the creator of this site — to be accessible to someone before the severe destabilization of repeated attempts to quit a drug by larger dose reductions.
 

I second Onmyway’s comment about about alcohol.  No amount of alcohol is a safe amount after a dose reduction that caused symptoms or during any taper of ADs or other psycho-active drugs.  One would think that one glass of wine would be fine.  No, it’s definitely not.  
 

Taking any other AD or psych drug is a very, very bad idea.
 

Sometimes I find it pretty irritating that no one warned me that using ADs would result in so many things being off limits. You may also have negative consequences from the adrenaline based numbing agents at the dentist’s office.  There is a non-adrenaline based agent that can be used, and I recommend that you insist on it based on my unfortunate experience.  I can’t even have a routine colonoscopy because of the sedatives.

 

Steroids, sleeping pills, anti-anxiety drugs, muscle relaxers, various antibiotics (an injury called floxxing can occur from certain antibiotics), and acne medications are also sometimes/often dangerous for people coming off of ADs.  A new trend is to make drugs that serve dual purposes such as a painkiller that includes an AD in the pill.  Prescribing ADs for pain without telling the patient that the pill is an AD is something that has been happening for years, as well.  Of course, MJ and any street drugs are quite dangerous.  
 

Essentially, if you are thinking of taking anything, check to see what other people have experienced by typing survivingantidepressants and then the name of the drug into any search engine.  At least it used to be that that would work better than using the search engine included in the site.

 

Good luck!

 

Rosetta

[Steven2023]

Hi Onmyway and Rosetta, thanks for the warm welcome.  🙂   

 

I have updated my signature with the info about the meds..  

I'm still drinking a fair bit but trying to cut back. It's a challenge.    I struggle with insomnia on the off nights.   

 

My doctor gave me some sleeping pills (which helped tremendously but have since run out).  I'm trying to reduce the number of medications I'm taking and don't want to become dependant on them, so I'm reluctant to ask him for another prescription.

Thanks for the link to the tapering info and the tip about the search engine, much appreciated.

 

[BigCat]

@Steven2023 Best of luck and a warm welcome, big man.  Good place here. 

[Emonda]

Welcome, @Steven2023,

 

21 hours ago, Steven2023 said:

My doctor gave me some sleeping pills (which helped tremendously but have since run out).  I'm trying to reduce the number of medications I'm taking and don't want to become dependant on them, so I'm reluctant to ask him for another prescription.

 

I am glad to read you are reluctant to ask for another prescription. I'm not sure what sleeping tablets you were given, but take great care here. My doctor gave me 50 Temazepam (benzos) last year. When I found out how dangerous they were on this website, I flushed them down the toilet! 

 

Insomnia could be alcohol-related (I had to completely cut it out 5 months ago), and it could also be AD withdrawal-related. So many of us here struggle with insomnia as a result of WD.

 

On 9/21/2023 at 6:04 PM, Steven2023 said:

Recently, there was a 4Corners documentary on TV that showed other people having the same difficulty coming off SSRI's and it was reassuring (although disturbing) to find that many other people are in the same situation.

 

Quite a few Australians joined S.A after that documentary (the BBC Panorama documentary as it is known by others here).

 

It's great that you landed here as a result of the documentary. I've followed the advice on this site, and it works. I've been taking ADs for around as long as you. Multiple failed CT attempts. This time around, with the guidance of S.A, I'm making progress I never dreamt possible.

 

You've come to the right place for support and encouragement.

 

Emonda

[Steven2023]

Hello Emonda

 

Thanks for your message.  Can you tell me what CT is?   I'm still learning all the acronyms...  🙂

regards

Steven

[Steven2023]

On 9/22/2023 at 2:18 AM, BigCat said:

@Steven2023 Best of luck and a warm welcome, big man.  Good place here. 

Thanks BigCat.

[Emonda]

7 hours ago, Steven2023 said:

Can you tell me what CT is? 

 

Ah, good question @steven2023. CT = cold turkey...quitting medication abruptly.

 

Here is a link to some other abbreviations you may find handy:

 

 

[Steven2023]

Hello all

I hope you're all doing well on your respective journeys...

I'm 3 weeks in to my gradual taper off Escitalopram and currently taking 7mg daily (down from 10mg three weeks ago).

It doesn't sound like a huge reduction (I know)...

I've also been alcohol-free for the last four nights (tonight will make five).

A couple of things I've noticed...

The first is that I haven't encountered any significant negative effects of the escitalopram taper (which is great), however in the fast few days, I've had a gradual sense that I am rediscovering occasional glimpses of my "authentic self".    It's a bit hard hard to explain, but almost as if there's a few moments here and there where things become 'sharper in focus' (figuratively speaking) and not viewed through the dull "disconnected" numbness that I usually see them.

This has both positive and negative effects.   One, is that I'm starting to feel a little more "connected" to other people and "the real world" as it is, but on the negative side, I'm finding that I'm experiencing increasing bouts of what can only be described as "anger".

I'm not sure whether this is due to the reduction of escitalopram or the sudden withdrawal of alcohol (or both).

 

Would appreciate it if anyone else has experienced a similar side effect, and if so, how long it's likely to last, as it's not something that usually happens to me.

My GP has given me some Xanax to assist with the alcohol withdrawal symptoms (specifically Insomnia which I really struggle with if not drinking), which I intend to take just short term.   He has prescribed .25mg twice day but I've been taking less than that.


Appreciate any thoughts. TQ.  

 

[littlebird]

3 hours ago, Steven2023 said:

currently taking 7mg daily (down from 10mg three weeks ago).

It doesn't sound like a huge reduction (I know)...

Wait, actually that sounds like a big ole taper! That's a 30% drop. Glad it's going well so far. 

 

3 hours ago, Steven2023 said:

I've also been alcohol-free for the last four nights (tonight will make five).

Heck yeah, good on you! This was surprisingly difficult for me to get off of after joining this site. It's so baked in to our culture, the having a drink thing. Also really making me realize I was self-medicating social anxiety with alcohol my whole dang life. 

 

3 hours ago, Steven2023 said:

My GP has given me some Xanax to assist with the alcohol withdrawal symptoms (specifically Insomnia which I really struggle with if not drinking), which I intend to take just short term.   He has prescribed .25mg twice day but I've been taking less than that.

Hope this has been going ok, I struggled with xanax. Made me mad depressed and the rebound anxiety was killer. Glad you're taking less than prescribed, maybe do a gradual taper off of it to not shock the system?

[RB398]

On 9/29/2023 at 3:47 PM, Steven2023 said:

Hello all

I hope you're all doing well on your respective journeys...

I'm 3 weeks in to my gradual taper off Escitalopram and currently taking 7mg daily (down from 10mg three weeks ago).

It doesn't sound like a huge reduction (I know)...

I've also been alcohol-free for the last four nights (tonight will make five).

A couple of things I've noticed...

The first is that I haven't encountered any significant negative effects of the escitalopram taper (which is great), however in the fast few days, I've had a gradual sense that I am rediscovering occasional glimpses of my "authentic self".    It's a bit hard hard to explain, but almost as if there's a few moments here and there where things become 'sharper in focus' (figuratively speaking) and not viewed through the dull "disconnected" numbness that I usually see them.

This has both positive and negative effects.   One, is that I'm starting to feel a little more "connected" to other people and "the real world" as it is, but on the negative side, I'm finding that I'm experiencing increasing bouts of what can only be described as "anger".

I'm not sure whether this is due to the reduction of escitalopram or the sudden withdrawal of alcohol (or both).

 

Would appreciate it if anyone else has experienced a similar side effect, and if so, how long it's likely to last, as it's not something that usually happens to me.

My GP has given me some Xanax to assist with the alcohol withdrawal symptoms (specifically Insomnia which I really struggle with if not drinking), which I intend to take just short term.   He has prescribed .25mg twice day but I've been taking less than that.


Appreciate any thoughts. TQ.  

 

Hi Steven 2023

i'm new here too but I have some experience after witnessing my sisters withdrawal ( as per Drs instructions) of -50%,-50% then stop of escitalopram.  It was way too fast and took her a very long time to get over.

I'd say your taper of 1 mg each few weeks seems very fast indeed. Have you looked around this site much? The general consensus is to reduce by 10% - of the previous dose - i.e 10mg - 10% = 9mg, less 10% =8.1mg.  It sounds like you are doing really well but please do take care as often it's as you get to lower doses that the reduction takes more effect.

Really hope all goes well and all the best with it.

RMB

[Steven2023]

Thanks RB and Littlebird.

Maybe my taper has been bit too aggressive.   Today has been better than yesterday.   I just stayed home and avoided other people LOL.

I've been reading that massive mood swings are a symptom of both alcohol withdrawal and SSRI cessation so I probably only have myself to blame stopping both pretty much at the same time.

Anyway, thanks again and hope you're both doing well...

 

[RB398]

Hey Steven

Hang on in there and go easy on yourself. I heard that 'only my self to blame'. It touched a nerve with me because I've so often blame myself for so much stuff. A friend was telling me, just this morning, that often there is no blame at all. Life is messy and difficult and we have to cut ourselves some slack sometimes.

Please take it easy and remember that in this game - slow and steady really does win the race.

All the very best

R

[Lenaf]

On 9/29/2023 at 4:47 PM, Steven2023 said:

Hello all

I hope you're all doing well on your respective journeys...

I'm 3 weeks in to my gradual taper off Escitalopram and currently taking 7mg daily (down from 10mg three weeks ago).

It doesn't sound like a huge reduction (I know)...

I've also been alcohol-free for the last four nights (tonight will make five).

A couple of things I've noticed...

The first is that I haven't encountered any significant negative effects of the escitalopram taper (which is great), however in the fast few days, I've had a gradual sense that I am rediscovering occasional glimpses of my "authentic self".    It's a bit hard hard to explain, but almost as if there's a few moments here and there where things become 'sharper in focus' (figuratively speaking) and not viewed through the dull "disconnected" numbness that I usually see them.

This has both positive and negative effects.   One, is that I'm starting to feel a little more "connected" to other people and "the real world" as it is, but on the negative side, I'm finding that I'm experiencing increasing bouts of what can only be described as "anger".

I'm not sure whether this is due to the reduction of escitalopram or the sudden withdrawal of alcohol (or both).

 

Would appreciate it if anyone else has experienced a similar side effect, and if so, how long it's likely to last, as it's not something that usually happens to me.

My GP has given me some Xanax to assist with the alcohol withdrawal symptoms (specifically Insomnia which I really struggle with if not drinking), which I intend to take just short term.   He has prescribed .25mg twice day but I've been taking less than that.


Appreciate any thoughts. TQ.  

 

I wanted to reiterate what others have responded - the rule of thumb is to start with a 10% reduction (use a scale or an isotonic saline solution and syringes, there are many posts here on this site) and then evaluate how the 10% drop made you feel. Ideally your tapers should leave you with symptoms not longer than 3 -4 days, otherwise it could be a sign that you are going too fast. The drugs that we are taking, are very powerful and have changed our brain chemistry - your body needs time to make the appropriate adjustments in order to heal. If you go too fast, there's just too much for it to do and it falls behind. Be gentle on yourself and remind yourself often of how far you've come. 

 

The other thing I wanted to acknowledge about your post is where you talked about seeing little glimpses of yourself after the taper. That is exactly what starts to happen as you traverse this sometimes tricky journey. Even when I do experience withdrawal effects, it's as if my body has an innate knowledge that I am moving towards myself more, as I move away from the meds. The little things that you recognise as part of the person you once were, will become the fuel that you need to complete this journey. I sometimes feel trapped because the only way out of this for me, is through. And I just want to be done with it. The alternative is not something that I am willing to endure again - insomnia, insane mood swings, hospitalisation and falling into the "system" all over again. You will likely experience many emotions about this journey, and anger will be only one of them, but it always comes down to the same thing for me...what is the alternative?

 

All the best to you. 

[Steven2023]

Hi Lenaf

Thank you so much for your reply.   Everything you said there really resonates with me.   I totally 'lost it' in a restaurant the other night with an angry outburst because we were waiting like half an hour for our food to arrive - embarrassing my partner in the process - and so we just ended up leaving.    This is something in my wildest dreams would never have happened before. 

In the moment, everything just seemed so intolerable. I felt like a volcano about to go off, and waiting a little while for a meal to arrive was just the thing to set me off.    It's an awful state of mind to be in.   If I had known about how bad these mood swings were going to be when coming off these meds I never would have entertained them in the first place.  

The mood swings are doing my head in, but seem to have settled down (after a couple of days like you said).     I think I've learned my lesson to take the taper a lot more gradually...

Thank you again.  Everything you've said makes a lot of sense.  Much appreciated!

All the best to you too..

regards

Steven

 

[Altostrata]

@Steven2023 I moved your posts and the very excellent responses to them (thank you, @Lenaf) as they are updates on your progress.

 

Quite often, it's easier to taper at the beginning, but as the dose gets lower, reductions become riskier. That is why we advocate the exponential taper: The amount of the reduction gets smaller as the taper progresses.

 

Drinking while tapering can be destabilizing. Good to hear you're stopped drinking, but your system may still be vulnerable from prior alcohold exposure and benefit now from a hold on further reductions until what might be potential mild withdrawal symptoms go away completely.

[Emonda]

Welcome back, @Steven2023

 

On 10/1/2023 at 10:17 PM, Steven2023 said:

Maybe my taper has been bit too aggressive. 

 

As per the other helpful replies above, I'd slow down. As Alto said above, maybe you can get away with a larger reduction initially, but in my experience, it catches up with you. You don't want to make yourself fragile, as it takes a while to recover. I've been there and have no desire to return there.

 

When you next taper, stick to the maximum of 10% per month.

 

On 9/30/2023 at 12:47 AM, Steven2023 said:

I've also been alcohol-free for the last four nights (tonight will make five).

 

Well done, steven2023.

 

On 9/30/2023 at 12:47 AM, Steven2023 said:

I'm not sure whether this is due to the reduction of escitalopram or the sudden withdrawal of alcohol (or both).

 

I think it's reasonable to assume both have played a part. I'd take this as a warning sign to slow down the taper.

 

Time and patience are your friends in this process.

 

👍