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Alfred1977: I quit Venlafaxine too fast and by skipping doses and now I feel awful


Alfred1977

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  • Mentor

@FindRest

 

P.S.: My head is not so fast these days...didn't think about the following about an hour ago:

 

Right now I am using generic xr capsules that contain several 12.5mg tablets each. So it's fairly easy for me to dose in steps of 12.5mg. I am on 25mg at the moment, so subtracting 12.5mg would bring me in the range of 0-12.5mg, where I said bead counting seems to be a good method to me. Therefore combining the 12.5mg generic xr capsules with homemade capsules counting beads might be a good solution. What do you think about this?

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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  • Mentor

@FindRest

 

Sry that I am writing and thinking "drop by drop":

 

I thought again about the different sizes of the beads and it now somehow appears to be logical and intentional to me. They do this to release not all of the drug at the same time and you are probably right in trying to copy the size ratio of the beads in the original capsule. However this gives me headaches again. At the moment I am struggling with things much easier than sorting and counting hundreds of micro beads by size.

 

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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  • Mentor
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Alfred1977 said:

Please correct me if I am wrong, but suppose I take the original brand product, then...

-bead size does not effect the dose but release time instead

-one bead contains roughly 0.3mg Venlafaxine each (it's better to count out a couple of capsules and thus calculate the average dose per bead)

-i can refill the beads into some third party gelatin capsule

 

I and a handful of others researched the FDA filings and the patent for Effexor and concluded that each bead is roughly the same amount. Subsequently, Pfizer finally answered someone’s inquiry asking if each bead is the same amount of active ingredient. They said it was. You’ll have to calculate your dose per bead (Pfizer/Viatris has different manufacturing facilities), but it should be close to .3.

 

Yes to your other points.

 

I store my extra beads and new doses in old plastic amber colored rx bottles. I put one of those drying sachets you get with medicines or supplements into each bottle to keep out moisture, then place in a cabinet, out of direct sunlight. I do not put them in the fridge as that can add moisture. The rx says they are good for a year, but pharmacists and testing say they can last for many more years if stored properly.

 

11 hours ago, Alfred1977 said:

Counting beads when you are around 12,5mg and below now sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe in the single digit range of beads it gets complicated again, if I understood you right. Thinking about weighing or counting beads above 12.5mg still gives me worries. How do you get the right amount of beads on the scale, if you want to have say 18mg? Don't you have a hard time adding and again subtracting beads repeatedly until you finally get the right amount?

 

You are understanding this whole process well along with the variables that create concern, especially when first starting out. All of us played these scenerios out in our heads over and over again. In the end, however, we had to come to grips with the fact that this is not going to be an exact science. It would be far easier if Pfizer would create smaller doses or a liquid. Ironically, when they applied to the FDA for approval, they had other smaller doses in the proposal. For some reason, they never manufactured them.

 

There’s a link on SA on how to use the scale properly. It will fluctuate often and drive you crazy in the beginning. The key is to come to grips with the fact that a minuscule amount of variation isn’t going to make much, if any, difference. Yes, you just add and subtract beads until you get to your desired weight.

 

I opted not to just weigh my doses as I was highly unstable and wanted to consider the size of bead. It was only after i started tapering again after my reinstatement, that I discovered the FDA and Patent filings.  I reinstated at around 10 mg, I think, so I didn’t have a bunch of beads to deal with. Others on higher doses weigh and don’t seem to have a problem doing it that way until below 37.5 or so. Truth be known, I both count my beads and weigh them. I was so unstable and didn’t want to take any chances.

Edited by FindRest

1988-1996  Various AD’s, all classifications.  1996-2019  Effexor XR 37.5mg to 150mg. Jan 2017 onward, 37.5 mg.

2019  Apr 11 - July 24: Trials of Latuda then Rexulti. CT'd off per dr.  Jul 24: CT Effexor (per dr)  Sep 9-19: Viibryd, CT (per dr).  Sep 23-27: Trintellix. CT (per dr).  Sep 28 - Oct 24:  Prozac 10mg.  Oct 24:  Stop Prozac, began Pristiq 25mg->50->25mg.

2020  Feb 1: CT Pristiq. Feb 1: Reinstated Effexor XR (10 large beads) gradually increasing to 22 beads (15L+7M) or 9.072mgai on Mar, 2020.

2021  Started Jan w 21 beads (13L+8M) or 8.47mgai ended Dec: 17 beads (7L+9M+1S) or 6.19mgai. Severe COVID + TIA.

2022  Ended yr w 14 beads (3L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.5mgai. Major jaw injury during year + family tragedy.

2023  Jan: 13 beads (2L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.2mgai; Feb: 12 beads (2L+4M+5S+1XS) or 3.9mgai; Mar: 11 beads (2L+4M+4S+1XS) or 3.6mgai, Apr: 10 beads (2L+3M+4S+1XS) or 3.3mgai; Jun: 9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 3mgai,

 

Current: July, 2023: Effexor XR -  9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 2.7 mgai

Other current meds: Ambien 10mg 3.935mg , clonazepam .125mg .107mg, omeprazoleSynthroid, Premarin.  Supplements: D3, C, probiotic, K2-MK7, Mg Glycinate

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  • Mentor
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Alfred1977 said:

Right now I am using generic xr capsules that contain several 12.5mg tablets each. So it's fairly easy for me to dose in steps of 12.5mg. I am on 25mg at the moment, so subtracting 12.5mg would bring me in the range of 0-12.5mg, where I said bead counting seems to be a good method to me. Therefore combining the 12.5mg generic xr capsules with homemade capsules counting beads might be a good solution. What do you think about this?

 Once you get below 125mg in dose, cutting 12.5 will be too much (more than 10%). Many have been burnt by cutting a 12.5 mini-tab at a time, especially as they get towards 75mg. You have been tapered too fast in the past and your body is going to be extra sensitive to any drop. I highly recommend you not drop more than 5% at a time when starting your tapering back up. If that goes well, you can increase it a bit. Most taper even less than that from 12.5 onward, as that last stretch is by far the worst.

 

Your signature says you’re at 25mg. I do think taking a 12.5 mini-tablet and the rest beads would be a good solution. You’d have to get your prescriber to agree to give you both prescriptions. Many will not and make you choose one type. Regardless, when switching to or adding in a new form of the drug, do NOT taper. Let your body adjust to the new drug first. Also, let your pharmacy know to never switch manufacturers.

 

5 hours ago, Alfred1977 said:

I thought again about the different sizes of the beads and it now somehow appears to be logical and intentional to me. They do this to release not all of the drug at the same time and you are probably right in trying to copy the size ratio of the beads in the original capsule.

 

That’s why I began investigating this 5 years ago. I knew it had to be intentional for Pfizer to have those different sizes in there.

 

Yes, it can be overwhelming in the beginning. BUT, I actually found it was sort of soothing and comforting to take control of my own situation. Note that pharmaceutical companies are allowed a certain variance in dose between each capsule in one prescription. It’s scary how high this variance can be. Your made up doses might be more accurate than the company’s in the end. That’s how I see it anyway.

 

5 hours ago, Alfred1977 said:

However this gives me headaches again. At the moment I am struggling with things much easier than sorting and counting hundreds of micro beads by size.

 

I understand. But, once you get a technique down, it will be easy. Enlisting the aid of a loved one to help you out at times can be good. My husband helped me in the beginning, but now hasnt helped me in years, lol. You wont be counting hundreds of micro beads, unless you’re talking about over a period of time. Each Effexor name-brand capsule of 37.5 contains roughly 130 beads. If you take 12.5 as a mini-tab plus 12.5 beads, you're talking counting 43 beads per dose. That will go fast once you get your plan down. Using the sieves I posted in buggedout’s thread made sorting by size a lot easier. I did it visually for the first year prior to getting the sieves.

 

Remember, this will not be perfect. It’s impossible. We just do the best we can. I believe it’s more important to be consistent in the way we do it, rather than trying to be perfect. Weights will fluctuate on the inexpensive scale, and sorting of beads isn’t going to be perfect. We just do the best we can while knowing that even our prescriptions have a variance between capsules.

Edited by FindRest

1988-1996  Various AD’s, all classifications.  1996-2019  Effexor XR 37.5mg to 150mg. Jan 2017 onward, 37.5 mg.

2019  Apr 11 - July 24: Trials of Latuda then Rexulti. CT'd off per dr.  Jul 24: CT Effexor (per dr)  Sep 9-19: Viibryd, CT (per dr).  Sep 23-27: Trintellix. CT (per dr).  Sep 28 - Oct 24:  Prozac 10mg.  Oct 24:  Stop Prozac, began Pristiq 25mg->50->25mg.

2020  Feb 1: CT Pristiq. Feb 1: Reinstated Effexor XR (10 large beads) gradually increasing to 22 beads (15L+7M) or 9.072mgai on Mar, 2020.

2021  Started Jan w 21 beads (13L+8M) or 8.47mgai ended Dec: 17 beads (7L+9M+1S) or 6.19mgai. Severe COVID + TIA.

2022  Ended yr w 14 beads (3L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.5mgai. Major jaw injury during year + family tragedy.

2023  Jan: 13 beads (2L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.2mgai; Feb: 12 beads (2L+4M+5S+1XS) or 3.9mgai; Mar: 11 beads (2L+4M+4S+1XS) or 3.6mgai, Apr: 10 beads (2L+3M+4S+1XS) or 3.3mgai; Jun: 9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 3mgai,

 

Current: July, 2023: Effexor XR -  9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 2.7 mgai

Other current meds: Ambien 10mg 3.935mg , clonazepam .125mg .107mg, omeprazoleSynthroid, Premarin.  Supplements: D3, C, probiotic, K2-MK7, Mg Glycinate

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  • Mentor

Hey @FindRest,

thank you so much. It is a gigantic help for me to be able to talk to a "effexor veteran" like you.

9 hours ago, FindRest said:

Your signature says you’re at 25mg. I do think taking a 12.5 mini-tablet and the rest beads would be a good solution. You’d have to get your prescriber to agree to give you both prescriptions. Many will not and make you choose one type. Regardless, when switching to or adding in a new form of the drug, do NOT taper. Let your body adjust to the new drug first. Also, let your pharmacy know to never switch manufacturers.

I think, I will do this then. When you are prepared to pay for it yourself, you usually get the antidepressant that you want here in Germany. Many doctors don't care and simply write you the prescription. Tapering in 36 steps by 10% would take me from 25mg to about 0.5mg (I know that you cannot perfectly plan it in advance like this). Assuming 30 days of holding time during each step and using the geometric sum formula this would make 30 * 25 * (1-0.9^36)/(1-0.9) =~ 7331mg Venlafaxin that I need for this process. Taking into account shelf life and scrap and not considering the 12.5mg tablets, I should need about 2x 50 x 75mg capsules and maybe another 50 x 37,5mg capsules effexor. This sounds affordable and should be doable.

 

However, right now I probably should hold on to my 25mg. When I reinstated I got pretty hard hit by anxiety, tension and insomnia and I have difficulties accepting that I am recovering only slowly. At the moment my life feels to be in shambles and I don't find the strength to tidy up this mess and sort myself out.

 

According to your signature you waited a couple of month after reinstating before you began tapering. How did you know when the time was right?

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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  • Mentor
Posted (edited)

I think you’re smart waiting to taper until your cns settles down. My signature must be misleading since I waited about 5-6 months after reinstating to try and taper, I believe. I then I tapered 1 bead. It was kind of rocky, so I held for another 3 months before trying again. You can see by my signature that my reinstatement included a few updoses until I reached 22 beads in March of 2020. Ten months later, January of 2021, I was only down 1 bead. 
 

1 hour ago, Alfred1977 said:

How did you know when the time was right?


I kept track of my symptoms daily and rated them. When they got down to a tolerable level and stayed that way for a month or two, I tried going down 1 bead. Even though I waited 5-6 months before my first minuscule drop, I could tell by the big increase in symptoms that it was too soon. It’s all about tracking you symptoms and then testing the waters when you think you’re ready. On that first drop, I recommend dropping very little. Better safe than sorry. Maybe only a couple of beads that first time. 
 

Your calculations blew my mind as it’s almost 5am here and my brain is dead! I will tell you that it will take much longer to taper than you think. Life will throw curve balls at you that force you to pause tapering. Plus, as you get down under 10mg, you most likely will not be able to taper monthly every time and definitely not by 10%. So, when estimating costs, you need to factor that into things. Plus, it will take you more Effexor capsules in the beginning as the ratio of bead sizes isn’t equal. There are very few large beads in comparison to medium and small. This means you’ll go through capsules quicker than you think. I know I’m not explaining it well.

 

Viatris/Pfizer offers a coupon here in the States that lets me get my Effexor Rx for $4 for a 30 day supply. Otherwise, without insurance it would cost me over $500 monthly! The US is known for its inflated pharmaceutical prices so I hope the price is better in Germany. I don’t know if the coupon is valid in your country either.

 

Another option would be to get another generic brand that comes in micro-beads there. Some of them even have beads all the same sizes if you’re lucky. 

 

On a side note, my ancestors are all from Germany. My parents and grandparents spoke a form of German. I know very little (just bad words, lol, as my parents would speak in German when they were mad and didn’t want us to figure out what they were saying. But we did anyway. 😁).

Edited by FindRest

1988-1996  Various AD’s, all classifications.  1996-2019  Effexor XR 37.5mg to 150mg. Jan 2017 onward, 37.5 mg.

2019  Apr 11 - July 24: Trials of Latuda then Rexulti. CT'd off per dr.  Jul 24: CT Effexor (per dr)  Sep 9-19: Viibryd, CT (per dr).  Sep 23-27: Trintellix. CT (per dr).  Sep 28 - Oct 24:  Prozac 10mg.  Oct 24:  Stop Prozac, began Pristiq 25mg->50->25mg.

2020  Feb 1: CT Pristiq. Feb 1: Reinstated Effexor XR (10 large beads) gradually increasing to 22 beads (15L+7M) or 9.072mgai on Mar, 2020.

2021  Started Jan w 21 beads (13L+8M) or 8.47mgai ended Dec: 17 beads (7L+9M+1S) or 6.19mgai. Severe COVID + TIA.

2022  Ended yr w 14 beads (3L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.5mgai. Major jaw injury during year + family tragedy.

2023  Jan: 13 beads (2L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.2mgai; Feb: 12 beads (2L+4M+5S+1XS) or 3.9mgai; Mar: 11 beads (2L+4M+4S+1XS) or 3.6mgai, Apr: 10 beads (2L+3M+4S+1XS) or 3.3mgai; Jun: 9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 3mgai,

 

Current: July, 2023: Effexor XR -  9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 2.7 mgai

Other current meds: Ambien 10mg 3.935mg , clonazepam .125mg .107mg, omeprazoleSynthroid, Premarin.  Supplements: D3, C, probiotic, K2-MK7, Mg Glycinate

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  • Mentor

One thing you have going for you, compared to me, is that you reinstated less than a month after you had dropped to zero. I didn’t reinstate until 6 months after the dr had me CT. During that 6 months, I was put on and CT’d off multiple AD’s as they tried to stabilize me. I was in much worse shape than you are, so your tapering journey should go much smoother than mine. 
 

I wanted you to know this as looking at my signature could depress just about anyone who is contemplating tapering. It isn’t this bad for everyone. It’s still a very hard drug to taper, however.

 

1988-1996  Various AD’s, all classifications.  1996-2019  Effexor XR 37.5mg to 150mg. Jan 2017 onward, 37.5 mg.

2019  Apr 11 - July 24: Trials of Latuda then Rexulti. CT'd off per dr.  Jul 24: CT Effexor (per dr)  Sep 9-19: Viibryd, CT (per dr).  Sep 23-27: Trintellix. CT (per dr).  Sep 28 - Oct 24:  Prozac 10mg.  Oct 24:  Stop Prozac, began Pristiq 25mg->50->25mg.

2020  Feb 1: CT Pristiq. Feb 1: Reinstated Effexor XR (10 large beads) gradually increasing to 22 beads (15L+7M) or 9.072mgai on Mar, 2020.

2021  Started Jan w 21 beads (13L+8M) or 8.47mgai ended Dec: 17 beads (7L+9M+1S) or 6.19mgai. Severe COVID + TIA.

2022  Ended yr w 14 beads (3L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.5mgai. Major jaw injury during year + family tragedy.

2023  Jan: 13 beads (2L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.2mgai; Feb: 12 beads (2L+4M+5S+1XS) or 3.9mgai; Mar: 11 beads (2L+4M+4S+1XS) or 3.6mgai, Apr: 10 beads (2L+3M+4S+1XS) or 3.3mgai; Jun: 9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 3mgai,

 

Current: July, 2023: Effexor XR -  9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 2.7 mgai

Other current meds: Ambien 10mg 3.935mg , clonazepam .125mg .107mg, omeprazoleSynthroid, Premarin.  Supplements: D3, C, probiotic, K2-MK7, Mg Glycinate

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  • Mentor

 

@FindRest

 

14 minutes ago, FindRest said:

I kept track of my symptoms daily and rated them.

I am not good at that. I have difficulties understanding how I feel. But I think I also need to wait several month before starting to taper. There is too much chaos right now...emotionally and in my life. I am not good at being patient either.

 

21 minutes ago, FindRest said:

Plus, it will take you more Effexor capsules in the beginning as the ratio of bead sizes isn’t equal.

I hope I will get away with not taking care of the size ratio...at least at the beginning of my taper.

 

22 minutes ago, FindRest said:

On that first drop, I recommend dropping very little.

Yes this sounds like a good idea, the first drop will probably be very scary anyway.

 

24 minutes ago, FindRest said:

Otherwise, without insurance it would cost me over $500 monthly!

This is insane! 100 capsules Effexor 75mg cost about 160€ in Germany. This price already infuriated me. 500$ for 30 capsules is blackmail. There are supposed to be some generic manufacturers producing capsules with beads instead of tablets here. But I heard about a lot of inconsistencies with respect to bead counts and weights in the generic capsules. I don't know if this is a rational decision...but I guess I was prepared to pay around 250€ in total for the original brand. Generic Venlafaxine 75mg xr comes at around 30€ per 100 capsules in Germany.

 

39 minutes ago, FindRest said:

On a side note, my ancestors are all from Germany. My parents and grandparents spoke a form of German. I know very little (just bad words, lol, as my parents would speak in German when they were mad and didn’t want us to figure out what they were saying. But we did anyway. 😁).

Viele Grüße aus der Heimat deiner Ahnen! 😊

 

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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  • Mentor
48 minutes ago, Alfred1977 said:

Viele Grüße aus der Heimat deiner Ahnen!


Danke!

1988-1996  Various AD’s, all classifications.  1996-2019  Effexor XR 37.5mg to 150mg. Jan 2017 onward, 37.5 mg.

2019  Apr 11 - July 24: Trials of Latuda then Rexulti. CT'd off per dr.  Jul 24: CT Effexor (per dr)  Sep 9-19: Viibryd, CT (per dr).  Sep 23-27: Trintellix. CT (per dr).  Sep 28 - Oct 24:  Prozac 10mg.  Oct 24:  Stop Prozac, began Pristiq 25mg->50->25mg.

2020  Feb 1: CT Pristiq. Feb 1: Reinstated Effexor XR (10 large beads) gradually increasing to 22 beads (15L+7M) or 9.072mgai on Mar, 2020.

2021  Started Jan w 21 beads (13L+8M) or 8.47mgai ended Dec: 17 beads (7L+9M+1S) or 6.19mgai. Severe COVID + TIA.

2022  Ended yr w 14 beads (3L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.5mgai. Major jaw injury during year + family tragedy.

2023  Jan: 13 beads (2L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.2mgai; Feb: 12 beads (2L+4M+5S+1XS) or 3.9mgai; Mar: 11 beads (2L+4M+4S+1XS) or 3.6mgai, Apr: 10 beads (2L+3M+4S+1XS) or 3.3mgai; Jun: 9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 3mgai,

 

Current: July, 2023: Effexor XR -  9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 2.7 mgai

Other current meds: Ambien 10mg 3.935mg , clonazepam .125mg .107mg, omeprazoleSynthroid, Premarin.  Supplements: D3, C, probiotic, K2-MK7, Mg Glycinate

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@Alfred1977 Hi. I read in your signature:  ”First they sell an addictive drug as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of miligrams correctly or plunging into the abyss.”

 

Agree! I migh add…and then they have no knowledge of taper and taper you off too fast.

 

🙏

2008 Zoloft 50mg 

2022 May - 62,5mg (doctor wanted to increase). Felt sick, went back to 50mg efter 2 weeks

2022 Oct - Reducing dose to 37,5mg (from 50mg). WD in few days, advised to go back to 50 - I then got adverse worse paradoxical effect

2022 Oct - Zoloft 50mg severe side effects/adverse reaction

2023 May 5th - Reducing dose to 25mg (directly from 50mg by Dr, WD).

2023 Aug 1st - Reducing dose to 12,5mg 

2023 Oct 10th - Removed dose from 12mg to zero by Dr. Reinstated 2,5mg citalopram after 3 months, bad reaction. Reinstated 0,5mg zoloft for 6 days after 7 months, didn’t work. In terrible WD.

 

 

 


 

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  • Mentor

@Dahlia50

 

10 minutes ago, Dahlia50 said:

Agree! I migh add…and then they have no knowledge of taper and taper you off too fast.

 

Yep, doctors that is. I have been talking with 4 psychiatrists about this...and they never heard anything near to what is going on in this community. My trust in medicine and doctors has taken a pretty hefty blow. Big pharma probably knows about all this and they probably approve of the fact that we are their suffering drug slaves...

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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  • Mentor

I would like to post a little update on myself. I seem to make progress.

 

When I tried Trimipramine 8 days ago (4/29/24), I got scared how well it worked at what seemingly was a very small dose. I was seeking somewhat relief with little risks involved and I felt that this would be strong relief bearing high risks...so I decided to taper Trimipramine out immediately not taking it anymore since 5/4/24.

 

The last night was the first night in 4.5 weeks that I naturally slept better than having 5 hours of shallow sleep. I remember dreaming and do not remember lying awake. Lights out at 10:30pm and I woke up around 6am feeling sleepy. If I didn't have to get out of bed, I know I could have slept on. Yesterday was pretty stressful. My wife had a bad day, my daughter has problems in school and my old parents worry a lot about my situation. For the last weeks those situations usually send me hard waves of anxiety, tension and insomnia (at least this is how I thought/rationalized). Now I believe that my feelings at the moment are at least somewhat unrelated to my surroundings and strongly influenced by the ups and downs of my recovery from withdrawal.  The last 3 days I had 2 or 3 ups and I seem to experience mood/anxiety changes daily, all in all me becoming somewhat more resilient. I also had this feeling of something "moving" or "working" up there in my brain again or experiencing very mild, micro brain zaps.

 

A couple of days ago I wanted to start tapering again and took Venlafaxine for the first time in form of an homemade liquid. The next day I felt very bad and stopped it again immediately. I know now that I have to give it more time. I am not stable enough and begin to accept that it might be months before I can start tapering again.

 

To everybody following this, supporting or taking part, thank you so much. Without this community I would be pretty much all on my own. I have no doctor that understands and my family also has a hard time understanding my condition.

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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  • Mentor

This is good news overall!

 

I somehow forgot that you took Trimipramine. Could you add that and any other medications you’re currently on or recently went off to your signature? Please also include any supplements you are taking. It’s nice to be able to review someone’s signature and get a snapshot of what their current and recent medication/supplement history is.

 

I’m glad you backed off the liquid for now. You need time to stabilize a bit more. When/if you do go back to the liquid, you might want to consider taking a 12.5 mini-tab + 12.5 in liquid in order to ease you into the liquid portion. Even those who are completely stable tend to struggle some when switching to liquid and need to do a long hold afterwards. 

1988-1996  Various AD’s, all classifications.  1996-2019  Effexor XR 37.5mg to 150mg. Jan 2017 onward, 37.5 mg.

2019  Apr 11 - July 24: Trials of Latuda then Rexulti. CT'd off per dr.  Jul 24: CT Effexor (per dr)  Sep 9-19: Viibryd, CT (per dr).  Sep 23-27: Trintellix. CT (per dr).  Sep 28 - Oct 24:  Prozac 10mg.  Oct 24:  Stop Prozac, began Pristiq 25mg->50->25mg.

2020  Feb 1: CT Pristiq. Feb 1: Reinstated Effexor XR (10 large beads) gradually increasing to 22 beads (15L+7M) or 9.072mgai on Mar, 2020.

2021  Started Jan w 21 beads (13L+8M) or 8.47mgai ended Dec: 17 beads (7L+9M+1S) or 6.19mgai. Severe COVID + TIA.

2022  Ended yr w 14 beads (3L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.5mgai. Major jaw injury during year + family tragedy.

2023  Jan: 13 beads (2L+5M+5S+1XS) or 4.2mgai; Feb: 12 beads (2L+4M+5S+1XS) or 3.9mgai; Mar: 11 beads (2L+4M+4S+1XS) or 3.6mgai, Apr: 10 beads (2L+3M+4S+1XS) or 3.3mgai; Jun: 9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 3mgai,

 

Current: July, 2023: Effexor XR -  9 beads (2L+3M+3S+1XS) or 2.7 mgai

Other current meds: Ambien 10mg 3.935mg , clonazepam .125mg .107mg, omeprazoleSynthroid, Premarin.  Supplements: D3, C, probiotic, K2-MK7, Mg Glycinate

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  • Mentor

Hey @FindRest,

 

thanks for visiting my thread again. If I should have stabilized, I will try the bead counting method in a couple of month, as we have talked about. Don't think I ll try liquid next.

I will update my signature...one moment pls.

 

All the best

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

Link to comment

All the best in your taper, slow and stable is the key. 👍🏼🤩🤩 

On Venlafaxine for 30 years, 150mg

2018 first tapered, over 2 months, horrible crashed, reinstated 3 months later

February 2023, tapering again, every 4 weeks reduced by 50%  150mg down to 37:5mg 

June 2023, from 37.5, broke open capsule, started tapering by one bead at a time every 2 weeks 

August, 2023 stopped last bead. 
Nov, 2023, started Saint John Wort, 600mg, 3x a day = 1800mg  -

                                  reduced 1 capsules 300mg on Feb 15, 2024
 

Supplements, 

magnesium bisglycinate, B complex, multivitamin, Omega 3 complex, Vitamin D3, digestive enzymes

also, use L-Theanine, occasionally natural GABA,  - stopped this in Jan 2024

For H.Pylori- Manuka Honey, 850mgo, Mastica Chios gum, Kefir, & probiotics 

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  • Mentor

Thanks @Kaylaq! 😀🖖

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

Link to comment

Hey @Alfred1977!

 

How are things going for you?

Supplements: Vit D3, Fish oil, Magnesium bisglycenate 200mg (when needed), Melatonin 1.25mg (when needed), Camomile tea (1 cup before bed), THC oil (0.03ml once a week, don't do this to yourself), Vit C 500mg a day
Started effexor in 2011.

Stopped effexor in 2012 (fast tamper).

Got back on effexor in 2012.

Tried stopping effexor again in 2014 (I'm not sure?), fast tamper again.

Started effexor again in 2014.

Switched to Escitalopram in 2016 I believe

Stopped Escitalopram 10mg cold turkey on January 3 2024.

Reinstated Escitalopram 5mg on april 2 2024.

Down to 1mg on april 3 2024, 1.25mg on april 11 2024

 

 

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  • Mentor

Hey @Tweed9674,

 

thanks for reaching out. It seems to be somewhat better. I started to get some little work done and I haven't got those cortisol spikes anymore, neither in the early morning nor am I getting those severe anxiety "flashes" nor am I feeling like tasting cortisol in my mouth. Sleep is still often an issue, however it's not terrible anymore and every 3-4 days I seem to get a good night. Windows and waves really seem to be it. Why ever that may be, but I experience quite frequently changing phases of ups and downs.

 

How are you doing? I am sorry the last days (or even weeks?) were bad. How are your kids doing? My daughter is eleven and at the moment struggling with her motivation to work for school. Part of the reason might be that schools in Germany are really often not that great and a lot of kids get private tutoring to make up for that. On the other hand we have a hard time teaching her that it is important for her to develop her skills, even if right now this all seems to be nonsense and not worthwhile.

 

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

Link to comment

Good to see that things are a bit better for you!

 

My older kid is 9 and he also struggle to see the point of school.

The angle I took was something in the lines of:

Maybe you will never need the skill they are trying to teach you and maybe you really dislike some of the things they are teaching in school.

You give it a chance, and the day you have to make a career choice, you'll have a better idea of where NOT to look.

Supplements: Vit D3, Fish oil, Magnesium bisglycenate 200mg (when needed), Melatonin 1.25mg (when needed), Camomile tea (1 cup before bed), THC oil (0.03ml once a week, don't do this to yourself), Vit C 500mg a day
Started effexor in 2011.

Stopped effexor in 2012 (fast tamper).

Got back on effexor in 2012.

Tried stopping effexor again in 2014 (I'm not sure?), fast tamper again.

Started effexor again in 2014.

Switched to Escitalopram in 2016 I believe

Stopped Escitalopram 10mg cold turkey on January 3 2024.

Reinstated Escitalopram 5mg on april 2 2024.

Down to 1mg on april 3 2024, 1.25mg on april 11 2024

 

 

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  • Mentor
11 hours ago, Tweed9674 said:

My older kid is 9 and he also struggle to see the point of school.

The angle I took was something in the lines of:

Maybe you will never need the skill they are trying to teach you and maybe you really dislike some of the things they are teaching in school.

You give it a chance, and the day you have to make a career choice, you'll have a better idea of where NOT to look.

And how did he react?

 

I tried to tell her that German and English and learning to learn and to take care of her matters will pay off. She is a good child...but without help it's not working right now. 

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

Link to comment

He decided that he was not going to pursue a career in music 😆

 

I'm not sure for how long it will keep him going. But for now it's enough haha!

Supplements: Vit D3, Fish oil, Magnesium bisglycenate 200mg (when needed), Melatonin 1.25mg (when needed), Camomile tea (1 cup before bed), THC oil (0.03ml once a week, don't do this to yourself), Vit C 500mg a day
Started effexor in 2011.

Stopped effexor in 2012 (fast tamper).

Got back on effexor in 2012.

Tried stopping effexor again in 2014 (I'm not sure?), fast tamper again.

Started effexor again in 2014.

Switched to Escitalopram in 2016 I believe

Stopped Escitalopram 10mg cold turkey on January 3 2024.

Reinstated Escitalopram 5mg on april 2 2024.

Down to 1mg on april 3 2024, 1.25mg on april 11 2024

 

 

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  • Mentor
33 minutes ago, Tweed9674 said:

He decided that he was not going to pursue a career in music 😆

 

😄 Funny, music was also an issue for us. The teacher was extremely eager...and now luckily another one is coming. I like music but I wonder why it is a subject in school.

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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  • Mentor

Hi everybody, I'd like to write a little update.

 

The second half of this week has been pretty rough. don't know exactly why. Besides the usual waves and windows, I suspect it might have been caused by a whole pack of chewy flavored candy I scarfed down greedily around Wednesday. It is definitely strange how this stuff attracts me and I think it somehow messes with the drug level in my system. The following night was pretty bad and I felt like having mild, mini brain zaps. I think I gotta keep my hands off of this. I experienced this with other foods and drinks as well. Orange juice, alcohol, water ice all seem to mess with Venlafaxine in my case. Coffee/caffeine seems to be also an issue, though I don't know if it is related to Venlafaxine. However, it seems to be pretty energizing for me and elevates my mood. I tend to drink overly much and when I stop I feel pretty down.

 

Although the severe anxiety and insomnia of the first weeks after reinstatement are gone, I am still pretty anxious and depressed. Since symptoms are not so extreme anymore I find it harder and harder to distinguish between withdrawal and psychological factors. My life is pretty depressing at the moment and I wonder how much of my emotional situation should I attribute to that. I remember those questions haunting me also in the beginning of my reinstatement. Do I need to push myself more? Why am I feeling like this? 

 

There is still a pretty consistent pattern that mornings are rather bad and evenings better. I spend a lot of time in bed and it's taking a toll on me. So I force myself to go walking. Probably I should try to focus more on the little things and learn to be happy about those. And I probably need more structure....well, to be honest I don't know what I need to do at the moment. I want to flee from this reality.

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

Link to comment

Yes, it is hard to know what is still withdrawal or the depression.  I struggle with that also. I’m glad the reinstatement is working a bit,…

 

I wish I had reinstated a bit earlier, now I’m on Saint John’s Wort, and can’t introduce SSRI’s,   
 

take care of yourself, and yes, watch the overload of sugar, it really messes with the brain chemistry 😝😝 💪💪👍🏻 

On Venlafaxine for 30 years, 150mg

2018 first tapered, over 2 months, horrible crashed, reinstated 3 months later

February 2023, tapering again, every 4 weeks reduced by 50%  150mg down to 37:5mg 

June 2023, from 37.5, broke open capsule, started tapering by one bead at a time every 2 weeks 

August, 2023 stopped last bead. 
Nov, 2023, started Saint John Wort, 600mg, 3x a day = 1800mg  -

                                  reduced 1 capsules 300mg on Feb 15, 2024
 

Supplements, 

magnesium bisglycinate, B complex, multivitamin, Omega 3 complex, Vitamin D3, digestive enzymes

also, use L-Theanine, occasionally natural GABA,  - stopped this in Jan 2024

For H.Pylori- Manuka Honey, 850mgo, Mastica Chios gum, Kefir, & probiotics 

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  • Mentor

Hey @Kaylaq,

thanks for visiting my thread. Yeah, sugar is not good in general...but there must be something in this chewy flavored candy that alters the metabolism of Venlafaxine in me. It's like getting high and then withdrawing...at least a little like that. I think those sensitivities to certain foods in combination with Venlafaxine destabilized me for about 18 years now. It took a couple of years to notice that this is happening and even today I still get surprised by it (I think the lower my dose the more sensitive I get).

I hope you somehow find a way to feel better soon!

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

Link to comment
On 5/19/2024 at 2:54 AM, Alfred1977 said:

Although the severe anxiety and insomnia of the first weeks after reinstatement are gone, I am still pretty anxious and depressed. Since symptoms are not so extreme anymore I find it harder and harder to distinguish between withdrawal and psychological factors.

I'm glad the insomnia has eased up. I know what you mean about struggling to distinguish between withdrawal and psychological factors. AND life stress. I also have enough life stress going on, my own depression/anxiety apart from going through the throws of this withdrawal. I've always had a tendency to try to take on too much at once, to try solve all of the problems. I think that acceptance and some serious self-nurturing might be more helpful. Easier said than done. Especially while trying to monitor your symptoms.

 

On 5/19/2024 at 2:54 AM, Alfred1977 said:

There is still a pretty consistent pattern that mornings are rather bad and evenings better. I spend a lot of time in bed and it's taking a toll on me. So I force myself to go walking. Probably I should try to focus more on the little things and learn to be happy about those. And I probably need more structure....well, to be honest I don't know what I need to do at the moment. I want to flee from this reality.

The 'not knowing what I need' feeling eats me up. I force myself to go on walks too. and try to really sit in the moment and ask what I need "right now". An orange. some water. I started jumping on a little work out trampoline last week when I am feeling distress. These things have helped a little.

 

Wishing you more good things.

Venlafaxine, 150 mg, 2015-2018 abrupt discontinuance from 150mg>75mg>0mg in 2 months
Venlafaxine, 150mg, 2018- Jan 2024 7-8 month taper, 4-6 weeks 112.5mg, 4-6 weeks 75mg, 4 weeks 37.5mg, removed 5 beads a week (from 100 ish beads per 37.5mg capsule, 7 doses of the same amount), stopped and held at about 18mg for a month when symptoms became intense, then continued to take 3 beads out a day until January 24, I took a capsule with 1 single bead

Spironolactone, 100mg, march 2024, acne

Sertraline, 25mg, May 7, 2024 (two doses in when I found this forum) discontinued May 9 after extreme anxiety and insomnia

Venlafaxine, .94mg, May 13, Reinstating to try and mitigate withdrawal symptoms

Supplements:

2023- Present 400mg Magnesium Glycinate

2023- Present 4800mg fish oil 1728 EPA, 1152 DHA

2023- May 8 B50 complex vitamin 

2023- May 8 5000 ID Vitamin D3

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  • Moderator
23 hours ago, Alfred1977 said:

Hey @Kaylaq,

thanks for visiting my thread. Yeah, sugar is not good in general...but there must be something in this chewy flavored candy that alters the metabolism of Venlafaxine in me. It's like getting high and then withdrawing...at least a little like that. I think those sensitivities to certain foods in combination with Venlafaxine destabilized me for about 18 years now. It took a couple of years to notice that this is happening and even today I still get surprised by it (I think the lower my dose the more sensitive I get).

I hope you somehow find a way to feel better soon!

Hi @Alfred1977- I had to chuckle at your comment about getting high off of those chewy candies lol.  It's not just the sugar, it's the texture... when I'm going through a rough time, there's just something about chewy stuff that is incredibly comforting!  But I pay the price BIG TIME if I take in too much sugar- sweating, insomnia, tremors.  Caffeine has been the devil for me as well, sadly.  I ADORE coffee lol.  But right now, it's all about herbal tea with a touch of honey (I'm vegan, and I know I shouldn't have honey, but it gives me that hint of sweet, and some nutrition as well, so I'm giving myself that grace).  I have been dealing with long covid for a couple of years now, and there are so many similarities to withdrawal... I have really found that a super clean diet has been literally the only thing that has eased the severity of my symptoms.  It's not a cure, but it helps.  Just go easy if you decide to get yourself off the caffeine and sugar- they both have their own withdrawal effects. 

 

Anyway, I'm sorry for your struggles.  Allow yourself to FEEL- it's ok to feel anxious and depressed!  It's a normal part of life.  Just go with the flow.  Whether it's withdrawal or life circumstances- personally, I don't think it matters.  What matters is how you manage it.  Be kind and gentle with yourself!  You can do this! 

1995- 2007- On and off multiple antidepressants (Prozac, Paxil, Effexor, Wellbutrin, escitalopram). Memory poor- can’t remember dates. Always tapered fast or CT.  2007- tapered Wellbutrin, zopiclone and escitalopram over one month to get pregnant.  Withdrawal hell.

2009- Daughter born 🥰

2016- Back on escitalopram

2022- Diagnosed with long covid 08/22.

2023- 01/23- Long term disability approved for long covid.  Started taper under MD advice from 20mg: 11/23- 15mg. 2024- March-10mg. Started low dose naltrexone for long covid-5mg- terrible reaction, reduced to 0.5mg.  April- 10mg escitalopram, 1.0mg LDN. May 1- 9.0mg escitalopram, 1.0mg LDN. May 15- 9.0mg escitalopram, 1.5mg LDN.  June 12- 8.5mg escitalopram, 1.5mg LDN.

 

I am not a doctor.  I don't even play one on TV.  This is not medical advice, but based on personal experience.  Please consult a medical professional.

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  • Mentor

Hey @Mushaboom,

it is nice that you visit me here in my thread.

 

2 hours ago, Mushaboom said:

I've always had a tendency to try to take on too much at once, to try solve all of the problems.

Yes, I have also issues with that.

 

2 hours ago, Mushaboom said:

I started jumping on a little work out trampoline last week when I am feeling distress.

I think sport/exercise can really help with feeling mentally better and reducing stress (it is recommended to do only light exercise during recovery).  February and before I was doing sports around 4 times per week. Roughly at the beginning of March I was going below 37.5mg and suddenly I wasn't able to do sports anymore. I was doing basically nothing and lost 7kg during those 4-6 weeks. I am now thinking about starting exercising slowly again.

 

2 hours ago, Mushaboom said:

Wishing you more good things.

Thank you. We will do it. It may take some time, but in the end we will overcome withdrawal and Venlafaxine.

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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  • Mentor

Hi @Catwoman73,

thank you for dropping by.

2 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

I had to chuckle at your comment about getting high off of those chewy candies lol.  It's not just the sugar, it's the texture... when I'm going through a rough time, there's just something about chewy stuff that is incredibly comforting!

Yes, something about this is "addictive"...even without Venlafaxine 😀

 

2 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

Whether it's withdrawal or life circumstances- personally, I don't think it matters.  What matters is how you manage it.  Be kind and gentle with yourself!  You can do this! 

Yes, probably you are right. I tend to overthink and won't figure this out anyway. Thank you for your encouragement.

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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  • Moderator

I am a natural over thinker, too lol.  It's an urge I fight every, single day!  🤣

1995- 2007- On and off multiple antidepressants (Prozac, Paxil, Effexor, Wellbutrin, escitalopram). Memory poor- can’t remember dates. Always tapered fast or CT.  2007- tapered Wellbutrin, zopiclone and escitalopram over one month to get pregnant.  Withdrawal hell.

2009- Daughter born 🥰

2016- Back on escitalopram

2022- Diagnosed with long covid 08/22.

2023- 01/23- Long term disability approved for long covid.  Started taper under MD advice from 20mg: 11/23- 15mg. 2024- March-10mg. Started low dose naltrexone for long covid-5mg- terrible reaction, reduced to 0.5mg.  April- 10mg escitalopram, 1.0mg LDN. May 1- 9.0mg escitalopram, 1.0mg LDN. May 15- 9.0mg escitalopram, 1.5mg LDN.  June 12- 8.5mg escitalopram, 1.5mg LDN.

 

I am not a doctor.  I don't even play one on TV.  This is not medical advice, but based on personal experience.  Please consult a medical professional.

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On 5/19/2024 at 12:54 AM, Alfred1977 said:

Hi everybody, I'd like to write a little update.

 

The second half of this week has been pretty rough. don't know exactly why. Besides the usual waves and windows, I suspect it might have been caused by a whole pack of chewy flavored candy I scarfed down greedily around Wednesday. It is definitely strange how this stuff attracts me and I think it somehow messes with the drug level in my system. The following night was pretty bad and I felt like having mild, mini brain zaps. I think I gotta keep my hands off of this. I experienced this with other foods and drinks as well. Orange juice, alcohol, water ice all seem to mess with Venlafaxine in my case. Coffee/caffeine seems to be also an issue, though I don't know if it is related to Venlafaxine. However, it seems to be pretty energizing for me and elevates my mood. I tend to drink overly much and when I stop I feel pretty down.

 

Although the severe anxiety and insomnia of the first weeks after reinstatement are gone, I am still pretty anxious and depressed. Since symptoms are not so extreme anymore I find it harder and harder to distinguish between withdrawal and psychological factors. My life is pretty depressing at the moment and I wonder how much of my emotional situation should I attribute to that. I remember those questions haunting me also in the beginning of my reinstatement. Do I need to push myself more? Why am I feeling like this? 

 

There is still a pretty consistent pattern that mornings are rather bad and evenings better. I spend a lot of time in bed and it's taking a toll on me. So I force myself to go walking. Probably I should try to focus more on the little things and learn to be happy about those. And I probably need more structure....well, to be honest I don't know what I need to do at the moment. I want to flee from this reality.

 

Hi Alfred, I just wanted to mention that both coffee and alcohol may cause more side effects if you’re on Effexor. I pretty much RELY on coffee these days but I keep to half a cup, in the mornings only. (If I have any coffee after lunch, I can’t sleep at all until like 3am)

Even my traditional doctor told me that having one cup of coffee is like having 6 cups when you’re on Effexor! I was kind of surprised to hear him say that. But it’s true, I can tell by how it makes me feels. And that, in turn, can cause trouble with sleeping. I’ve always had trouble sleeping, for a number of reasons (and I know the Effexor contributes to it as well) but I’ve noticed that I do sleep better on days that I don’t have coffee.

Also, alcohol totally messes with me. You can read about it online, just search alcohol and Effexor. It isn’t recommended to mix the two. I have stupidly done it way too many times. I actually blame the Effexor for my alcohol dependence, and poor judgement and decision making when even just drinking a very small amount.

Thankfully I’ve gotten the drinking under control lately, I drink once a week MAXIMUM. But when I do, I notice that it brings on withdrawal effects that sometimes last several days.

So be careful! And I hope you’re feeling alright. I can relate completely with what you’re going through. Spending time outside really helps.

 

Effexor XR:

July 2008: 150mg | June 24 2015: 145mg | July 28 2015: 130.5mg | Sept 4 2015: 117mg | Nov 10 2015: 105mg

Jan 24 2016: 94.5mg | Feb 28 2016: 85mg | Mar 27 2016: 76.5mg | Apr 28 2016: 69mg | Aug 14 2016: 62mg

Jan 19 2017: 56mg | Feb 21 2017: 50mg | Mar 30 2017: 36mg | Apr 2 2017: 45mg | Sep 1 2019: 27.5mg

April 9 2020: 25.2mg | Oct 30 2021: 16.9mg | Apr 1 2023: 15.2mg | May 1 2023: 13.7mg | May 31 2023: 12.3mg

July 1 2023: 11.1mg | Aug 1st 2023: 10mg | Sep 25 2023: 9mg | Oct 25 2023: 8.1mg

 

Vitamins & Supplements:

MegaFood Women's Postnatal Vitamin | Metagenix D3 5000 IU | Floradix Liquid Iron

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  • Mentor

Hey @buggedout,

 

how are you doing? Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me and coming to my thread. It's interesting what you are saying about coffee. I guess I have to at least cut it back then. With alcohol I was/am pretty sure that this is a no go and I stopped alcohol completely. I struggle with cutting sugar and coffee though. I would like to quit it entirely but maybe (as with the tapering) I have to reduce it step by step.

 

Regarding the way of dosing Venlafaxine @FindRest helped me a lot. Right now I am having xr capsules that contain 12.5mg tablets. When I start tapering (in a couple of months or so) I will combine those 12.5mg tablets with counting microbeads.

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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Hey @Alfred1977, how are you holding up?

 

Tapering coffee in withdrawal is no fun. I was pretty much forced to do it during my acute withdrawal in February. Couldn't handle the stuff anymore in my sensitized state. Did 20 tapering steps over 20 days to get rid of my morning coffee, 7 ml measured grounded coffee to 0.5 ml and then off. Had some mild headaches but could've easily been the Venla as well.

 

 

2010-2012 Zoloft, Wellbutrin, only tried these for a few weeks and then stopped them CT, can't remember the exact year.
2015 Mirtazapine for a short while, can't remember dosage
2016 Seroquel for a while, 25 mg at

night.

2019-2020 Concerta 27-36 mg, tapered off in 4 weeks

2013-2024 Effexor in varying doses, from 75 mg to 300 mg.

2023 April - 2024 January Tapered down from 150 mg to 25 mg and crashed. Tried increasing dose to 50, 75 and 150 mg without much success.
2024 March-April Tapering Effexor from 150 mg and introducing Trintellix 20 mg. Quit caffeine and nicotine, couldn't handle them anymore.

2024 May Venlafaxine reinstatement 1.5 mg-->16 mg, 5mg ramipril, 0,5 mg melatonin.

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  • Mentor
1 hour ago, WillBeHereTomorrow said:

Hey @Alfred1977, how are you holding up?

 

Just had a pretty disturbing family incident and need to calm down.

In general I am sleeping not good lately and I am still struggling with life and neuroemotions I guess. Nowadays I get strange brain sensations again...pretty consistently around 5 am.

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

Link to comment
7 minutes ago, Alfred1977 said:

 

Just had a pretty disturbing family incident and need to calm down.

In general I am sleeping not good lately and I am still struggling with life and neuroemotions I guess. Nowadays I get strange brain sensations again...pretty consistently around 5 am.

 

I'm sorry to hear this. Neuroemotions are very difficult, I'm struggling myself with this at the moment. Comes mostly in waves between 09.00-12.00 and 15.00-18.00 for me. Every little thing gets blown way out of proportion emotionally and I find myself questioning my sanity. It's okay to struggle, that's what I keep telling myself. Just need to hang on from one moment to the next.

 

So please hang on, it's okay to struggle.

2010-2012 Zoloft, Wellbutrin, only tried these for a few weeks and then stopped them CT, can't remember the exact year.
2015 Mirtazapine for a short while, can't remember dosage
2016 Seroquel for a while, 25 mg at

night.

2019-2020 Concerta 27-36 mg, tapered off in 4 weeks

2013-2024 Effexor in varying doses, from 75 mg to 300 mg.

2023 April - 2024 January Tapered down from 150 mg to 25 mg and crashed. Tried increasing dose to 50, 75 and 150 mg without much success.
2024 March-April Tapering Effexor from 150 mg and introducing Trintellix 20 mg. Quit caffeine and nicotine, couldn't handle them anymore.

2024 May Venlafaxine reinstatement 1.5 mg-->16 mg, 5mg ramipril, 0,5 mg melatonin.

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8 hours ago, Alfred1977 said:

Hey @buggedout,

 

how are you doing? Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me and coming to my thread. It's interesting what you are saying about coffee. I guess I have to at least cut it back then. With alcohol I was/am pretty sure that this is a no go and I stopped alcohol completely. I struggle with cutting sugar and coffee though. I would like to quit it entirely but maybe (as with the tapering) I have to reduce it step by step.

 

Regarding the way of dosing Venlafaxine @FindRest helped me a lot. Right now I am having xr capsules that contain 12.5mg tablets. When I start tapering (in a couple of months or so) I will combine those 12.5mg tablets with counting microbeads.

 

I totally understand about the caffeine, I definitely rely on it to some extent. It's hard to cut it out when you have a family and obligations that require an extra boost of energy. Although I have made some drastic (positive) lifestyle changes in the last month, I'm hoping that my regular energy will return at some point and I won't have to rely on it any more. 

 

Things are trucking along for me. I've felt weird since my last reduction about 3 weeks ago now. Probably gonna hold at this dose for longer than usual. 

 

Also good job cutting out alcohol. That's probably worse for you than caffeine. 

Effexor XR:

July 2008: 150mg | June 24 2015: 145mg | July 28 2015: 130.5mg | Sept 4 2015: 117mg | Nov 10 2015: 105mg

Jan 24 2016: 94.5mg | Feb 28 2016: 85mg | Mar 27 2016: 76.5mg | Apr 28 2016: 69mg | Aug 14 2016: 62mg

Jan 19 2017: 56mg | Feb 21 2017: 50mg | Mar 30 2017: 36mg | Apr 2 2017: 45mg | Sep 1 2019: 27.5mg

April 9 2020: 25.2mg | Oct 30 2021: 16.9mg | Apr 1 2023: 15.2mg | May 1 2023: 13.7mg | May 31 2023: 12.3mg

July 1 2023: 11.1mg | Aug 1st 2023: 10mg | Sep 25 2023: 9mg | Oct 25 2023: 8.1mg

 

Vitamins & Supplements:

MegaFood Women's Postnatal Vitamin | Metagenix D3 5000 IU | Floradix Liquid Iron

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