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PsychologyBeatsPsychiatry: I hate psych drugs


PsychologyBeatsPsychiatry

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Hi there. I've been off and on psych drugs (antidepressants and antipsychotics) for over 10 years at this point.

 

I was taking fluoxetine (Prozac) last year (2023) and then I tried coming off cold turkey. Initially things were fine, but then I got more anxious. So I went back on fluoxetine (20mg daily) which I have now been taking for about 6 weeks.

 

Ideally I'd like to be off all psych drugs. But I don't know if I should try tapering yet. I suppose most of all in life I need a job, because I've been out of work for too long. So maybe I should try to get a job first, and then taper off the Prozac.

 

In fact I have a question, just in case anybody feels like answering this. Do you think psych drugs helped you at any point? And then you only tapered off when they were no longer helping? Or do you think the psych drugs never helped, and you would have been better off if you had never taken them? I often think I would have been better off with never taking psych drugs. My life was vastly better before I ever took psych drugs.

 

Thanks if you've read this. I've been reading some posts on this site and I might read some more.

Have been on various psych meds, on and off, for over 10 years. Ideally, I'd like to come off all psych meds.

 

Currently taking 20mg fluoxetine (Prozac) daily. I might start tapering.

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  • Moderator

Hello, and welcome to Surviving Antidepressants. We are a peer support forum to assist in tapering off psychiatric drugs safely, or recovering from psychiatric drug withdrawal.

 

This topic is for anything relating to you, and any questions you have. Please do not start another topic.

 

 

 

If you follow the guidelines we suggest here you will find withdrawal from psych drugs much easier to manage. It is the cold turkey or rapid tapers that lead to acute withdrawal symptoms and incorrectly being diagnosed with the mythical "relapse". I would suggest holding for a few months before you attempt again, and like you have mentioned, getting some structure in your life with regular employment. One of the key elements to a succesful and slow taper is distraction, there is less need to rush the taper if you are occupied in life.

 

Regarding the question of efficacy of psychiatric drugs, you will find the answer to that question skewed on this site, as most of us have been harmed directly by medication, or from incorrect tapering regimes.

 

 

 

We recommend tapering by no more than 10% of your CURRENT dose each month, to limit withdrawal symptoms. E.g. 10mg --> 9mg --> 8.1mg --> 7.29mg

 

All the answers you are looking for regarding tapering and antidepressant withdrawal are on this site. Please search around and continue to read as much as you can manage. Use the site search function to search for specific words or phrases, such as drugs or symptoms.

 

Here are a few of the most useful links:

 

--------Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ--------

 

Micro tapering

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

Using a scale to weigh and measure doses

 

--------From the Symptoms and Self-Care Forums--------
 
What is withdrawal syndrome?
 
About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Hypersensitivity and Kindling

 

We only recommend two supplements. Omega 3 Fish Oil and Magnesium. Both should be introduced separately and increased slowly.

 

Regards

Erimus

Active Monday-Friday UK time

 

Taper calculator spreadsheet

 

MEDICATION:

1) Sertraline:

50mg - Oct 2020, 100mg - Dec 2020, 50mg - April 2021, 75mg - May 2021, 50mg - Sep 2021, 55mg - 23 Feb 2024, 60mg - 20 March 2024, Start tapering - 24 April 2024

Current dose: 55.09mg  (1 July 2024)

2) Mirtazapine:

15mg - Nov 2020

SUPPLEMENTS:

Fish oils, Magnesium, Vitamin C

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@PsychologyBeatsPsychiatry

Hi and welcome!
Yes I believe Fluoxetine helped me a great deal to cope with life, maintain a job and have a good social life.  I am only coming off now as I’m getting older and wondering about how it affects my brain taking it long term (dementia? etc) and because of the side effects.  I would not try to come off if I was still working, or I would do it very slowly.  I have only had a small experience with other medications, sertraline, mirtazapine and Quetiapine all of which were dreadful.  Being a female I’m so happy I was not taking anything when I had my children. 
Hope this helps 

x

2000 to 2016 - Fluoxetine 20mg taken successfully approx 3 times.

2016 - A cocktail of drugs prescribed by a psychiatrist, didn’t go well.

Late 2016 - settled back on Fluoxetine 20mg and a low dose HRT, worked well.

Dec 23 2023 - Tapering Fluoxetine to 10mg.
Mar 4 2024 - stopped Fluoxetine CT 

May 22 2024 - reinstated 1mg but very bad akakthesia 1 week later so stopped again 0mg 

June 14 - Admitted to hospital, Ativan and psych dr has started me on Venlaxafine. 

 

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@Erimus

Thanks for the reply and thanks for the information you've written.

23 hours ago, Erimus said:

Regarding the question of efficacy of psychiatric drugs, you will find the answer to that question skewed on this site, as most of us have been harmed directly by medication, or from incorrect tapering regimes.

Fair point. I guess in my case, I think that fluoxetine possibly has some beneficial effects, even though it probably has negative effects as well. I've tried reading about the side effects of SSRIs, and it seems to me they do have negative effects on the body. Anyway, like you say, maybe I should just take the fluoxetine for the moment, until I have more stability in life. And then I could taper it.

 

@Fluoxyoyo

Thanks for this reply. Yes maybe I should try coming off slowly if I do come off again. Regarding dementia, I used to take an anticholinergic drug which is apparently associated with an increased risk of dementia. The drug I took was procyclidine, which is meant for counteracting side effects caused by antipsychotics, which I was taking at the time. I don't think fluoxetine has anticholinergic properties (according to this). So hopefully it doesn't increase the risk of dementia, but to be honest I really don't know. Like you, I also worry what these drugs could be doing over time - effects that scientists might not yet understand.

Have been on various psych meds, on and off, for over 10 years. Ideally, I'd like to come off all psych meds.

 

Currently taking 20mg fluoxetine (Prozac) daily. I might start tapering.

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On 5/28/2024 at 1:56 PM, PsychologyBeatsPsychiatry said:

In fact I have a question, just in case anybody feels like answering this. Do you think psych drugs helped you at any point? And then you only tapered off when they were no longer helping? Or do you think the psych drugs never helped, and you would have been better off if you had never taken them? I often think I would have been better off with never taking psych drugs. My life was vastly better before I ever took psych drugs.

Hi @PsychologyBeatsPsychiatry- welcome!

 

Such an interesting question.  I do think psych meds helped me, in that they numbed me so much that I couldn't experience the pain that I was in at the time(s) that I started taking them.  But was numbing myself really the right answer?  Looking back, with all the wisdom I have gained over 30 years, I would have to say that I was just a scared, traumatized kid who never learned any coping skills to be able to deal with the massive disappointments that life inevitably dishes out.  A good therapist to help me process my childhood trauma and learn some coping skills likely would have been much more useful in the long run.  But there are two problems with that- first, finding a good one is like finding a needle in a haystack.  And secondly, it was never suggested as a first line of treatment.  I was just put on the drugs, with no informed consent, telling me that I would feel better if I took them.

 

Interestingly, the one time that I do think I should have been put on meds was after the birth of my daughter.  I was psychotic, and a danger to myself and her.  I couldn't be left alone.  It was a terrible situation, yet, with the support of family, I somehow got through that medication-free. 

 

It's a tough question- when I think about what my life would look like without the meds AND without finding the support to be able to process my trauma and develop appropriate coping skills... well, I likely wouldn't be here now.  So I suppose, in a sense, the meds saved my life.  But I'm sad that I've lost so many years of being the real me to protracted withdrawal, and the numbing effects of these medications.  I truly wish I had known what I was in for when I agreed to take these drugs as a 21 year old, and that an alternative had been offered.   And I also want to point out that my support system saved me after my daughter was born, so I think that's a key ingredient to getting through serious suffering medication free.  

 

I'm hoping and praying for a future where these meds are the very last resort, only for the desperate, and only for a short course.  I hope that, someday, there will be an abundance of well-trained, trauma-informed therapists that can help us process the things that drove us to take the meds in the first place.  For now, I'm just grateful to have learned everything that I have about psych meds, and to be in a place where I can get off of them as safely as possible!  

1995- 2007- On and off multiple antidepressants (Prozac, Paxil, Effexor, Wellbutrin, escitalopram). Memory poor- can’t remember dates. Always tapered fast or CT.  2007- tapered Wellbutrin, zopiclone and escitalopram over one month to get pregnant.  Withdrawal hell for many years.

2009- Daughter born 🥰 Post partum depression/psychosis- no meds taken.

2016- Back on escitalopram due to job change/anxiety

2022- Severe covid infection- Diagnosed with long covid 08/22.

2023- 01/23- Long term disability approved for long covid.  Started taper under MD advice from 20mg: 11/23- 15mg. 2024- March-10mg. Started low dose naltrexone for long covid-5mg- terrible reaction, reduced to 0.5mg.  April- 10mg escitalopram, 1.0mg LDN. May 1- 9.0mg escitalopram, 1.0mg LDN. May 15- 9.0mg escitalopram, 1.5mg LDN.  June 12- 8.5mg escitalopram, 1.5mg LDN.  July 8- Brassmonkey micro taper started.  8.4mg escitalopram, 1.5mg LDN.  July 15- 8.3mg esc, 1.5mg LDN.  July 18 8.3mg esc, 2.0mg LDN

 

Supplements/other meds: Vitamin D, B12, Claritin

 

I am not a doctor.  I don't even play one on TV.  This is not medical advice, but based on personal experience.  Please consult a medical professional.

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  • Mentor
On 5/28/2024 at 7:56 PM, PsychologyBeatsPsychiatry said:

Or do you think the psych drugs never helped, and you would have been better off if you had never taken them? I often think I would have been better off with never taking psych drugs. My life was vastly better before I ever took psych drugs.

I definitely say that I would have been better off without them. I never noticed any significant positive effect - there might have been one, but it was not noticeable by me. I became quickly dependent and experience until now very ugly things. I would say that taking ADs is one of the worst decisions of my life.

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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On 5/28/2024 at 8:56 PM, PsychologyBeatsPsychiatry said:

In fact I have a question, just in case anybody feels like answering this. Do you think psych drugs helped you at any point? And then you only tapered off when they were no longer helping? Or do you think the psych drugs never helped, and you would have been better off if you had never taken them? 

I would be lying if I said they never helped. My life was shattered in pieces when I first went on Effexor. I couldn't handle being an adult with all the unprocessed trauma I was dealing with. I was 24 at the time.

 

The problem as I see it is that the psychiatric system is very poor at detecting underlying trauma and giving care accordingly. Yes I've had depression, anxiety and fear of people since I was a child. But why? No one ever told me. I was in talk therapy and visiting clinics for five years before I was put on ADs. No one ever picked up on me being potentially traumatized. My problem was never the depression and anxiety, they were only symptoms of untreated trauma.

 

I pieced this together a couple of years after I had my first son. I was in therapy with a trauma informed therapist for two years, but I was on a very high dose of Effexor during those years, 225-300 mg. So I'm quite unsure how much I really benefited from that. My wife tells me that I changed for the better, so I'm clinging to that. This fall I'll continue my therapy on a hopefully much lower dose.

 

So in short: Yes they helped me at first, but the effect didn't last. Then they hindered me. Then I couldn't get off. Now I'm in withdrawal and trying to find my way back. Nothing in life is ever black or white.

 

16 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

Hi @PsychologyBeatsPsychiatry- welcome!

 

I'm hoping and praying for a future where these meds are the very last resort, only for the desperate, and only for a short course.  I hope that, someday, there will be an abundance of well-trained, trauma-informed therapists that can help us process the things that drove us to take the meds in the first place.  For now, I'm just grateful to have learned everything that I have about psych meds, and to be in a place where I can get off of them as safely as possible!  

I agree whole heartedly with this @Catwoman73

2010-2012 Zoloft, Wellbutrin, only tried these for a few weeks and then stopped them CT, can't remember the exact year.
2015 Mirtazapine for a short while, can't remember dosage
2016 Seroquel for a while, 25 mg at

night.

2019-2020 Concerta 27-36 mg, tapered off in 4 weeks

2013-2024 Effexor in varying doses, from 75 mg to 300 mg.

2023 April - 2024 January Tapered down from 150 mg to 25 mg and crashed. Tried increasing dose to 50, 75 and 150 mg without much success.
2024 March-April Tapering Effexor from 150 mg and introducing Trintellix 20 mg. Quit caffeine and nicotine, couldn't handle them anymore.

2024 May Venlafaxine reinstatement 1.5 mg-->16 mg, 5mg ramipril, 0,5 mg melatonin.

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@Catwoman73

Thanks for this reply. What you say makes sense. Perhaps psych meds should indeed be a last resort. I hope that more research is done to discover more about what these drugs are doing to the brain and body. Maybe if more is known about the negative effects then doctors might think that these meds aren't the best solution for psychological distress.

 

@Alfred1977

Sorry to hear that. I definitely think to myself that I could have been better off if I had never taken them. But also I suppose we definitely shouldn't blame ourselves for having taken them, given that society endorses them, and doctors say they're safe, etc. There do seem to be scientists who are trying to research the negative effects of psych meds (e.g. Joanna Moncrieff, Mark Horowitz, maybe others), so hopefully over time patients will be vindicated.

 

@WillBeHereTomorrow

This makes sense. Like you, I think I have had some desirable effects from psych meds. But I don't know if they were worth it, given the negative effects that I think these meds can have. And yes I agree that negative life experiences can contribute to psychological distress, and maybe this should be given greater consideration by psychiatrists. It's pretty different for a psychiatrist to say to a patient "you're unhappy because of a genetic problem which causes you to have unreasonable emotions", compared to "you had bad experiences and actually your unhappiness is completely understandable; others in that situation would also feel unhappy".

Have been on various psych meds, on and off, for over 10 years. Ideally, I'd like to come off all psych meds.

 

Currently taking 20mg fluoxetine (Prozac) daily. I might start tapering.

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  • Mentor
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, PsychologyBeatsPsychiatry said:

Sorry to hear that. I definitely think to myself that I could have been better off if I had never taken them. But also I suppose we definitely shouldn't blame ourselves for having taken them, given that society endorses them, and doctors say they're safe, etc. There do seem to be scientists who are trying to research the negative effects of psych meds (e.g. Joanna Moncrieff, Mark Horowitz, maybe others), so hopefully over time patients will be vindicated.

We might be biased since there are so many of us "clumped up" in communities like this. On the other hand almost everybody here reports that their withdrawal was dismissed by doctors as relapse, worsening condition or whatever. So there might be more of us out there still not knowing what is going on. Vindication is probably a dream...probably so is even investigation...

 

As far as I know, even serious proponents of ADs say that they should not be taken long term and there are no clinical studies examining their long term effects. So anything your doctor is telling you about the long term benefits or risks of ADs is purely "anecdotal".

Edited by Alfred1977

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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Hi @PsychologyBeatsPsychiatry

 

On 5/29/2024 at 12:56 AM, PsychologyBeatsPsychiatry said:

In fact I have a question, just in case anybody feels like answering this. Do you think psych drugs helped you at any point? And then you only tapered off when they were no longer helping? Or do you think the psych drugs never helped, and you would have been better off if you had never taken them? I often think I would have been better off with never taking psych drugs. My life was vastly better before I ever took psych drugs.

 

One way I find myself answering this question is to look at the drug manufacturer's own data.  It is my understanding that based on their own data, the effect of SSRI's was equivalent to placebo at about the 12 week mark during product trials.  If that is in fact true, then there's the answer to the question.  Additionally, as has also been mentioned, the drug manufacturer's themselves never did any long-term studies, so it's damn near a total unknown as to what happens during long-term usage of these drugs. 

 

And, of course, even in the very best case scenario, you have a drug that is merely a palliative - it is not, and will not ever be, a cure.  There is also the seeming inevitability of the "poop out" phenomenon - something which, based on anecdotal data from user forums, can be a driving force behind endless dosage increases, or a potentially inevitable happening at "max" dosages.  In terms of this phenomenon, BTW, it is also my understanding that all during the time you're taking an SSRI your brain is actively trying to "adapt" to the reuptake inhibition by finding ways to return uptake to "normal".  Which certainly seems like our own brain's answer to the question...Are these drugs really that good for you, lol??

 

And, of course, no one even knows how SSRI's actually work - to the extent that they even do beyond the placebo effect.  This last point puts "paid", IMHO, to the argument you often see being made on user forums and the like that an SSRI is "just like" a diabetic taking insulin, etc.  Which, apparently, is based on the naive concept that your brain is somehow inherently "defective" because you were born with a lack of an appropriate amount of serotonin, etc? 

 

All in all then, lol...from my perspective, it seems pretty clear that there is no real justification for these drugs whatsoever, and that the only real, and lasting, solution is the development of non-drug coping skills.  Such a shame, then, that so many folks have been sold a profit-based fantasy that popping this little pill will make all their problems magically fade away...  

Xanax, .50mg, 21 November 23 - 24 December 23; taper from .50mg to .125mg, 25 December 23 - 19 January 24
Clonazepam, .50mg, 22 January 24 - 5 February 24; taper from .50mg to .125mg 6 February 24 - 29 February 24
Tranmed, 5mg, 22 January 24 - 29 January 24
Zoloft, 25mg 22 January 24 - 5 February 24; 50mg 6 February 24 - 20 February 24; taper from 50mg to 6.25mg 21 February 24 - 28 March 24
Melatonin, 1mg, 1 April 24 - 14 May 24, 2mg, 15 May 24 - present

Magnesium - 25mg, 31 May 24 - 7 June 24.  Now discontinued.

Diphenhydramine - 25mg, 10 July 24.  Occasional use, as needed.

 

 

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@Alfred1977

It seems to me that psychiatrists are now acknowledging that antidepressant withdrawals can be significant for some people, particularly people who have taken antidepressants for a long time. For example, the UK's Royal College of Psychiatrists updated their advice on stopping antidepressants to include a lot of information that is from this very website (e.g. only reduce your dose by 10% or 5% per month if you have been taking antidepressants for a long time).

 

As for bias, I try to stay objective about psych meds. I think they have some desirable effects, but also they have negative effects. Bias can definitely be an issue when it occurs though. Like when drug companies only publish studies with results that make their drugs look good, and they don't publish studies that make their drugs look bad.

 

@theopold

Yeah the idea of a depressed brain being deficient in serotonin has always seemed strange to me. When a doctor diagnoses you with depression, they don't do any sort of test to confirm that your brain can't produce the levels of serotonin that a normal person produces. So maybe depression is just a symptom rather than a diagnosis. A cough is a symptom, which could be caused by the flu, or Covid, or a chest infection, etc. And depression is a symptom that could be caused by multiple things (a brain injury might make depression more likely, but also life factors such as job stress, financial stress, etc will probably make depression more likely).

 

Regarding the idea of whether there's "no real justification for these drugs whatsoever": perhaps, although I'm not sure. Maybe some people really do have brains that are genetically so different that antidepressants give them a better life than they would otherwise have. But who knows.

Have been on various psych meds, on and off, for over 10 years. Ideally, I'd like to come off all psych meds.

 

Currently taking 20mg fluoxetine (Prozac) daily. I might start tapering.

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  • Mentor
1 hour ago, PsychologyBeatsPsychiatry said:

It seems to me that psychiatrists are now acknowledging that antidepressant withdrawals can be significant for some people, particularly people who have taken antidepressants for a long time. For example, the UK's Royal College of Psychiatrists updated their advice on stopping antidepressants to include a lot of information that is from this very website (e.g. only reduce your dose by 10% or 5% per month if you have been taking antidepressants for a long time).

Yes, you in the UK have really made some significant progress in that respect. I think the Netherlands are on a good way too. Here in Germany it feels like we are at least 20 years behind.

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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@Alfred1977

Have you seen this German documentary about antidepressants? (It can be watched without adverts here.) I watched it a while ago, it's interesting. It questions antidepressants, and how the drug industry has pushed them. And it features a German guy who attends a drug-free mental health facility (so I suppose it's a bit like a mental hospital, but without meds).

Have been on various psych meds, on and off, for over 10 years. Ideally, I'd like to come off all psych meds.

 

Currently taking 20mg fluoxetine (Prozac) daily. I might start tapering.

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  • Mentor
On 6/7/2024 at 3:54 PM, PsychologyBeatsPsychiatry said:

 

Have you seen this German documentary about antidepressants? (It can be watched without adverts here.) I watched it a while ago, it's interesting. It questions antidepressants, and how the drug industry has pushed them. And it features a German guy who attends a drug-free mental health facility (so I suppose it's a bit like a mental hospital, but without meds).

Thank you very much. This is very interesting and helps heaps.

Earlier drug history:

Paroxetine  2001 until 2003, quit cold turkey, don't remember dose; Venlafaxine 2005 until Dez. 2023, mostly 75mg xr per day, for about 4 years 37.5mg xr; quite a lot of Antihistamines because of allergy; there were other drugs that I don't remember all, but nothing what I consistently took over a longer period of time, for example Lorazepam 0.5mg prn.

Recent developments:

Dez 2023 - 03/13/2024 quitting Venlafaxine 75mg (skipping doses); 04/07/2024 reinstating Venlafaxine 12,5mg; 04/17/2024 Venlafaxine 25mg; 4/29/24 until 5/4/24 Trimipramine, 5mg going down to zero over 5 days

Drugs right now:

Venlafaxine 25mg; supplements: 500mg magnesium, 100mg aspirin and melatonin spray

 

I am no medical expert. I am dependent on Venlafaxine, trying to find and give peer support in this community and simply giving my opinion. Double check any information before you take action, for example with your doctor.

 

First they sell addictive drugs as harmless and then they leave you alone dosing fractions of a mg correctly or plunging into the abyss.

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