Cfgwb: insomnia since march 2024, lots different meds Help!!!!!

[cfgwb]

Hello please please help me I am devastated

My latest history:

Med free 2016-2020
October 2020 100mg opipramol - stopped dec. 2022 (100 -50-0, ct)
+ mirtazapin 30mg Februar 2021 -mid 2022 - switch to seroquel prolong 50mg
+ venlafaxin (unknown dose) May 2021.- August 2021- switch to escitalopram 10mg

Stopped seroquel may 2023 (50 -25-0)
Stopped escitalopram july 2023 (taper 3 months)

Withdrawal began october 2023 with sleep problems (I did not know about wd) got better slowly
Februar 2024 sleep problems started again
Tried reinstatement 0.1 Mg escitalopram. From what I Know now it probably worked, but I stopped
After that 20th march 2024 insomnia started Completely
Got some diazepam, tavor, opipram
Started 7.5mg mirtazapin 24th march 2024 only sedating, no sleep
Still on mirtazapin, reduced to 3.2.mg, but just because I wann to get rid of it, it Doesnt help for sleep at All. I will never be able to stabilize on mirt. As I am in poly cold Turkey. Cns Completely in rage. Mirtazapin feels like poison to me. What shall I do,,?? 

Taper mirtazapin:

24-26 March 7.5mg

27.3.-30.3.24 5,5mg mirtazapin

31.3.-2.4. 5.1mg mirtazapin

3.april 3.8mg mirtazapin till

15.5. 3.5mg mirtazapin till

8.7. 3.165mg mirtazapin

14.7. 3.0 mg mirtazapin

15.7. 2.54 mg mirtazapin

Since 16.7. 3.2mg mirtazapin

But how to get rid of it? I do not sleep Since march 2024!!!
I cannott do anything besides walking around in our house. I destroyed my life and my cns. Help help

Shall i reinstate escitalopram 0.01mg again? Was only Thing that helped. Or too late? Is it too late for me at All? Or do I even have to get up with mirtazapin dose? Because taper Was to qucik? But even 7.5mg only sedated me, no real sleep:(

 

Melatonin 1mg
Passionflower 260mg

magnesium glycinat sometimes 100mg

(dont know if it helps, tried also other Supplements, did not help)

 

please help me What Should i do? Mirtazapin is not helping at All, but how to taper? I DO NOT SLEEP SINCE MARCH 2024

 

what to Do? Does mirtazapin even prevent me from sleep because of noradrenalin? Will I die ? Shall I try lamictal or similar? Please please help me I do not want to die.

In JanuarY 2024 i was still able to hike and had a normal life. Even time in Februar was soooo much better than now. I Destroyed my life and health help help

[cfgwb]

This is a deadlock isnt't it? 

No sleep = no Healing

No healing = no sleep

 

And my med history....poly cold Turkey. How shall anybody survive this ?

Help.. .

I need sleep, please please let me know how to get sleep qucikly please please please help me. I NEEEEED sleep

[Catwoman73]

Hi @cfgwb, and welcome to SA!  We are a community of volunteers providing peer support in the tapering of psychiatric medications, and their associated withdrawal syndromes. 

 

Thank you for completing your drug signature.  And I'm very sorry for your current suffering, and for all you have been through.  It sounds like your doctor is not very withdrawal informed, unfortunately.  Sadly, this is a common theme around here, so you are in good company. 

 

Unfortunately, it looks like your nervous system has been severely destabilized by so many rapid medication changes.  Once you are on these medications for more than a few short weeks, they start to make changes to your biochemistry, and even your gene expression.  Rapid dosage changes do not allow for adequate time for the nervous system to destabilize, causing symptoms like you are experiencing.  Read more about how these medications work here:

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 What is happening in your brain?

 

For this reason, when tapering, we recommend reducing your dosage by no more than 10% at a time, no more frequently than every four weeks.  This is known as hyperbolic tapering.  Read more here:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Since you have already made all these changes under your doctor's guidance, the question becomes what to do about it.  I know this is not what you are going to want to hear, but the very best thing you can do right now is hold- avoid tapering, and give your body and brain time to stabilize.  It's going to take a while- likely many months.  You can taper again, more slowly, once stabilized. 

 

In the meantime, there are things you can do to assist with your insomnia.  I see you are taking melatonin- you may wish to review the following thread on melatonin.  It is quite possible that your dose is too high:

 

Melatonin for Sleep

 

Magnesium can be helpful as well- however finding the right dose and form can take a bit of experimentation.  And, like with all supplements, it is quite possible to develop a hypersensitivity reaction to it, so you are best to keep a symptom journal to determine how you react to different supplements, and start with a VERY low dose, slowly increasing if you tolerate it well. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

Some other sleep advice here... personally, I find deep breathing, listening to yoga Nidra on YouTube, mindfulness and meditation to be very calming, and does help me rest a little bit better.  

 

Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Most of all, I can see your thinking tending towards the catastrophic- you have to fight against this.  Honestly, poor sleep will not kill you.  Challenge those thoughts.  Ask yourself, 'is this true?'  Well, no- if poor sleep hasn't killed you yet, it won't.  Your body will heal if you give it stability, and with some practice of the above non-drug coping techniques, things will get better.  

 

I know you feel desperate, and all of this sounds like it will do nothing, but please work towards calming your mind.  By being this anxious about your situation, you will make it even harder to sleep.  Try some guided meditations/yoga Nidra with deep breathing, or calming music, or nature sounds.  If your mind wanders, just bring it back and focus on what your senses tell you about your environment.  I promise that with practice, it will make a difference. 

 

Hang in there... thinking of you!

[cfgwb]

Hi and thanks for your reply

What is if mirtazapin prevents me from sleep due to noradrenalin? That is my worst fear, that I have to take it but it makes everything Worse.  I Read about Kindling and that especially mirtazapin is harming and increasing fight or flight even more!! And then what to Do?

Yoga nidra I do every evening When laying in bed.

My sleep is not just bad there is none maximum some light sleep for some minutes...how my body shall heal? Survive? I all the day just walk through the house. Cannot sit. Am toooo afraid about the Situation 

Best regards

[cfgwb]

Hei or maybe I went down too quickly? Will I be able to stabilize on that dose? Or shall I go up again to 3.5 or so? Because I just reduced because I want to get rid of this poison....but was not stable...

[cfgwb]

And my heart is getting damaged. Never had such blood Pressure before. I was sporty. I was healthy.  Now I feel like Almost dead

 

[Catwoman73]

6 minutes ago, cfgwb said:

Hi and thanks for your reply

What is if mirtazapin prevents me from sleep due to noradrenalin? That is my worst fear, that I have to take it but it makes everything Worse.  I Read about Kindling and that especially mirtazapin is harming and increasing fight or flight even more!! And then what to Do?

Yoga nidra I do every evening When laying in bed.

My sleep is not just bad there is none maximum some light sleep for some minutes...how my body shall heal? Survive? I all the day just walk through the house. Cannot sit. Am toooo afraid about the Situation 

Best regards

 

This sounds like you might have some akathisia/restlessness, which is a very common symptom of withdrawal/destabilized nervous system.  You can read about it here:

 

Akathisia vs. Restlessness/Anxiety/Agitation

 

If you comb through the thread, you may find some useful suggestions.  

 

I truly think that your issue is destabilization from multiple drug changes, rather than the mirtazepine itself.  Stability is the way.  Keep working to calm your nervous system in any way possible.  Start a symptom journal- track your medication and supplement dosages, your symptoms, rated on a scale of 1-10, your activities and your foods.  It is very common to become hypersensitive to all of these things in your situation, so keeping a journal can help you identify triggers. Take care of yourself- eat a healthy, whole foods diet, stay adequately hydrated, get gentle exercise.  This will not only help your overall health, but will provide the best possible environment for healing.

 

1 minute ago, cfgwb said:

Hei or maybe I went down too quickly? Will I be able to stabilize on that dose? Or shall I go up again to 3.5 or so? Because I just reduced because I want to get rid of this poison....but was not stable...

 

If you just hold, you will stabilize.  I wouldn't change your dose anymore- at least not at this time.  It is going to take time and patience, but I can assure you, stability will come.  This is a good time to start that symptom journal, and keep experimenting with different methods to calm your nervous system.  Keep close track of how you react to different activities- avoid what makes you feel worse, and do more of what makes you feel better (even if it isn't an immediate cure).  Even a slight improvement in your mental state is worth celebrating.  You will have good days and bad days as you stabilize- this is known as the windows and waves pattern of stabilization.  That journal can help you see your windows and waves more clearly too!  Read more here:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Your power in this situation lies in your knowledge, and in fine-tuning what works for you as you allow your body the time it needs to heal.  This is a time of learning and experimentation for you.  I find it very helpful to look at things through a rather clinical lens- I label my symptoms and my reactions to different things that I try as 'interesting' rather than scary or terrible... removing the emotion and fear from the situation is very helpful.  Easier said than done, I know!  But it's worth pursuing this calm way of dealing with symptoms- eventually, you can reprogram your brain to respond to even the most stressful of situations with a sense of calm.  Yes, it takes work, but you can get there!

 

 

[Catwoman73]

1 minute ago, cfgwb said:

And my heart is getting damaged. Never had such blood Pressure before. I was sporty. I was healthy.  Now I feel like Almost dead

 

 

How high is your BP?  If it is in a dangerous zone, you will certainly need to see a doctor.  But It is very common to have odd blood pressure changes when your nervous system is destabilized.  My blood pressure tends to drop rather than rise lol- we are all a little bit different. 

[cfgwb]

Sometimes my bd is 160/120 or higher. Throughout my whole Life I had Low bd

But I do not check everytime.

My pulse is also high, mostly over 100. Und not so regularly

Since Februar 2024. Bd only got worse last days/weeks...

Dont know what a Doktor could do...

[cfgwb]

For diet: I try to avoid histamine...

And eat lost of raw vegetable and fruits whole day...

 

[Catwoman73]

6 minutes ago, cfgwb said:

 

Dont know what a Doktor could do...

 

Well, we certainly don't want you having a heart attack or stroke due to this!  Your doctor would likely want to start you on a beta blocker to bring that BP down.  There are some disadvantages to this however- do have a read of this thread:

 

Beta Blockers- propranolol, metoprolol, atenolol

 

3 minutes ago, cfgwb said:

For diet: I try to avoid histamine...

And eat lost of raw vegetable and fruits whole day...

 

 

This is perfect.  Keep this up- it can only help you heal faster! 

[cfgwb]

I feel so much guilt and shame about what I did in march...stopping escitalopram reinstatement and get so many different meds and now hang on mirtazapin...it is ruining my life. Mirtazapin is soooo Hard to get rid off especially in poly cold Turkey...how shall I survive this? 

[cfgwb]

1 minute ago, Catwoman73 said:

heart attack or stroke

? Help....now I am even more afraid..is this possible? Omg...i die

[cfgwb]

I really do not know if this is akathisia. I want to run away from my thoughts and that feeling of having lost everything.I cannott bear this while sitting or laying...it is tooo much for me, my thoughts kill me

[cfgwb]

47 minutes ago, Catwoman73 said:

If you just hold, you will stabilize

What does stabilize mean? Where do I know I stabilized? I cannot wait until i am healed, poly cold Turkey cannot heal.. i cannot take mirtazapin for 20 years now. I just cannot 

[cfgwb]

Is passionnflower okay to take? Take since 3 days, cannot find bad Reaktion...but do not know if helpful...

[Catwoman73]

1 hour ago, cfgwb said:

? Help....now I am even more afraid..is this possible? Omg...i die

 

Very high blood pressure does increase risk for heart attack and stroke, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.  A diastolic pressure of 120 is very high- if you are always like that, I would see your doctor to discuss.  If you only shoot up that high sometimes, you're fine!  As an athletic person, your body is probably very accustomed to high BP when you work out, so it's not as big an issue.  Take your BP when you are at your most rested- that is the best indicator of your current baseline. 

 

55 minutes ago, cfgwb said:

What does stabilize mean? Where do I know I stabilized? I cannot wait until i am healed, poly cold Turkey cannot heal.. i cannot take mirtazapin for 20 years now. I just cannot 

 

Stabilize means that the severity of your overall symptoms will lessen, and you will be able to see your pattern of windows and waves.  This will not take 20 years- again, avoid the catastrophic thinking.  It's not helpful.  Take it day by day.  That's all you can do- don't stress yourself out more by obsessing over the future. 

 

52 minutes ago, cfgwb said:

Is passionnflower okay to take? Take since 3 days, cannot find bad Reaktion...but do not know if helpful...

 

Passionflower is known to affect your GABA receptors.  This is generally not something you want while in withdrawal. If you feel like it's helping, you could stick with it and just keep a close eye on your symptom journal.  

 

1 hour ago, cfgwb said:

I feel so much guilt and shame about what I did in march...stopping escitalopram reinstatement and get so many different meds and now hang on mirtazapin...it is ruining my life. Mirtazapin is soooo Hard to get rid off especially in poly cold Turkey...how shall I survive this? 

 

Guilt and shame are not going to help you right now.  What's done is done.  All you can do is move forward.  That being said, guilt and shame are so common around here that we have a thread about it- do check it out. 

 

Guilt, Shame, Regret and Self-criticism

[cfgwb]

Hi

I am pretty Sure that my bd issues Result from the insomnia since march.

Before all the medication issues happened my sleep was so much better. When I reinstated the escitalopram in February i had 2 weeks with 6-8 hours broken sleep but it was good sleep!! Only when I increased to 0.11mg problems began. That is why I stopped out of stupidity...

Shall I reinstate escitalopram 0.01mg again? Because it will be only Thing that may help. I need sleep. My body will die otherwise. Please help me.

 

[cfgwb]

Hi i just started passion flower 4 days ago. Do not See a real Effect. Better stop it now? Maybe having too many sedating stuff right now?

 

 

[cfgwb]

How shall my cns stabilize without sleep?? I cannot imagine that I do have any Chance at All....I made So many mistakes becuase I did not know. 

Like Supplements, had to take vitamin d, Folic acid etc...

Was in a clinic, the nearly forced me to 25mg seroquel (once in july 24)...all that stuff...how shall I survive? Without sleep?

My cns was destabilized since 2009 (but never had such severe issues like now. Was mostly able to live a good life, work, etc...unbelievable how I destroyed my self)

I am not able to take care for myself. My parents and my husband are taking care for me but they suffer too. They all the time want me to go again into a clinic or try New meds for sleeping. I won't do any of those for Sure but if they stop supporting me I will die.. cannot care for myself

It is devastating 

 

[cfgwb]

And because I have Kindling: isn't it better to reduce the mirtazapin?

And it also scares me sooooo much to take it every evening, not knowing how long I will have to...the side effects are horrible.

Help

[cfgwb]

I want to scream for help the complete day!!! Please help me, I cannot survive this...please please help what shall I do?

[cfgwb]

I eat 10 carrots or more per day. Is this a problem? 

[cfgwb]

And the longer i take mirtazapin the harder it is to get off it? Help

[cfgwb]

How shall I heal? I never tapered off one of All the drugs correctly. Never. I was poly drugged some years.

I have mirtazapin now which does not help at All for sleep. I cannot taper it without sleep. Help...I do not want to die. I am 35 years old. There was so much life left for me. I need sleep really Bad 

I cannot meditate or so throughout the day because I cannot with stand my thoughts. I do not have Therapist any more she does not believe me and wants me back on meds. Doctors are mess too...what shall I do?

Get some sleeping Pills at least 1 per month? My body need sleep soooo damn

Have 10 zopiclone 3.75mg at home but did not take any because I am afraid

I Read everything on SA or german forums to know that even persons having tapered correctly their only med need months or years to recover. My Story and Prognosis is the worst of All. Did not find a similar Story anywhere.. Poly cold turkeyed, no sleep, mirtazapin. How shall I ever be able to taper it without dying?

[cfgwb]

I lost my ability to sleep. Help...all day just walking around in the house .body exhausted but cannot sit or lie. Have pain, cannot feel my toes anymore. Everything hurts. Cannot do anything. No tv, no books reading any more (i Was book lover :'( )

Help help what to Do?

Did not have 1%of Those Symptoms or severity in February 2024 when I recognized this is wd and the medicament horror started again. Help help need help need sleep

[cfgwb]

I already had Windows between october 23 and february 24. WHY Was I so damn stupid to destroy my cns and my sleep? I was tooo greedy. And had too few knowledge 

.i do not want to Lose everything just because of stupid mistakes 

[cfgwb]

Is it possible to switch from mirtazapin to prozac? For easier tapering? Please help me

Most of the time I was on ssri i could sleep a lot...hoping on this again 

[cfgwb]

I am convinced I urgently need to reinstate a correct drug , instead of mirtazapin. Only way to ease my pain and suffering and help me survive.

What shall I do and how? 0.01 mg escitalopram? Please help meeee

[cfgwb]

I am scared to death, please help what shall I do? I am dying help help help please I need to survive

[cfgwb]

I cannot live like this for years now!!!!!! Please what shall I do? Mirtazapin is killing me..i am in Withdrawal hell AND have to taper mirtazapin WITHOUT sleep. Help

This is not possible to manage please please what shall I do? My hip hurts so much, every Part of my body hurt. What to Do? Need sleep please

Non drug sleep Tips I practice since years...

[cfgwb]

Where can I get some Release at least for sleep? Please please please help me i need Support otherwise I die. I really die I cannot live without sleep so lang please please please help me so urgently help me please please @Altostrata

[cfgwb]

Is it in my severe case renommend to go on benzos to survive this? Please

[cfgwb]

But no doczor will Hand out benzos to me in germany what to Do now? I WILL DIE

[cfgwb]

I do not want to die please please please it is inhumane what shall I do?,???

[cfgwb]

I cannot find Any pattern in Symptoms.it is just horrible All day and night I need relaxation with a benzo or so. Please tell me if this will help

Please please please I am in poly cold Turkey and have akathisia worst 

Pain

No sleep Since march please give me some help please

i do not want to get into psychiatrie