ProgesteroneWD: Progesterone Withdrawal (similar to benzo)

[ProgesteroneWD]

My story is a little different but I dont know where to find hyelp or people who will understand other than those who have been through true benzo withdrawal! I cannot find any help or resources for my experience-Background:

TLDR - body identical Progesterone has given me a benzo style withdrawal and I'm at a loss as to what to do as it seems very rare (although having set up a FB group I've already found others)

 

-Background

I took Utrogesten progesterone 100mg rectally for 10 days and then came off at menstruation on 30th July (followed medical directions)

 

-Issue

I began to feeling increasingly worse as days not taking it went on, absolutely terrible, with tension in the head, headache, sore legs, anxiety/panic etc and although not due to go back to progesterone until mid month, it got so bad I decided to try some more to see if it helped (as at this point I was verging on full out panic attack and felt like I was dying).

 

It did seem to help...however some hours later I got more anxiety and panic but that eventually seemed to settle back down and I woke up feeling ok the next day...but then started to feel bad again so took 100mg at 9 am (thinking if it was estrogen kick back I'd need to keep it at bay and increase the dose like I have seen recommended by Carol Peterson etc). That helped but then it started to come back again, so I took another P capsule around lunch that day and that helped too...but then it started to come back again, so I took another final capsule around 4pm.

 

Then it all went absolutely horrific and I had racing heart, extremely anxiety and panic, high blood pressure etc all night. I tried to take a tiny bit of valium/0.5mg (prescribed for anxiety and only ever used occasionally as fully aware of risks) to calm down but that made it worse almost instantly (never usually fails)!

 

That indicated to me it seems like progesterone had caused too much GABA/Glutamate or had somehow messed with my GABA!

 

I've been constantly reading how you cannot take too much progesterone so I was v confused!

It seemed to be that Progesterone was creating havoc with GABA receptors like a benzo would despite no history of benzo abuse, addiction or tapering and only used it sporadically for panic at 0.5mg usually (14 tablets can last me 1 or 2 years).

 

I was aware of Progesterone withdrawal as I had read a bit about it mainly on the 'Menopause Matters' forum. I also knew about estrogen kickback but none of the issues felt like estrogen, no rise in histamine, sore breasts etc The feelings were very odd though as along with anxiety I had a tension headache in the front of my head. I never usually get tension headaches that way it's usually at the back were the occipital are. I also felt pressure inside my head like it was going to pop open, I've never had that before - despite having suffered with anxious and panic in the past. This symptom made me even more anxious it was catch 22.

 

-Taper

So on the Saturday after going back on, I decided I would taper off the Progesterone with the help of CBD as I read that this can balance GABA and Glutamate and people use it frequently for benzo withdrawal.

It took me around a week to taper off. I took the CBD regularly throughout, taking 2 to 3 drops whenever I felt the slight prickle on anxiety and I've also tried to eat low glutamate (no parmasan cheese for example) and stayed away from anything blood sugar spiking (sweets, cakes etc). I did feel so bad that after a week I had to use a dab 2 days in a row then was able to stay off for a further week using the CBD and camomile tea!

 

-Latest issue

By the time my period came round on Wednesday last week (first since this happened) I was feeling much better and feeling optimistic. BUT then I seemed to have withdrawal from my OWN progresterone as on the Thursday night I had a huge anxiety episode for about 6 hours and nothing was helping (xbd, camomile tea and even a dan of the progesterone which actually made me feel worse). I was in bed all Friday and most of Saturday and had high anxiety since. I did have a few cups of tea before bed on the Thursday and a soft drink on Saturday which may have set off Glutamate (I'm now strictly caffeine free)

 

-kindling fear 

I am just worried that I am now going to go through this every month and wondered if anyone else has ever heard of anything like this?

 

Have tapered off benzos have they had new problems with their own progresterone when getting their period etc?

 

Did I taper off too fast?

 

Any help or suggestions appreciated. I feel so alone because nobody seems to think this is a thing....

Some links

https://www.progesteronetherapy.com/withdrawal-symptoms-after-using-progesterone-dailyvery-scared.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawFBRgNleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHTK9ikkgapYQUdBVBQAkyh_nkhAaQH2awFc0vKim2gphgp0-575tFFjRuA_aem_lxFVd8x8ykhq8l7kP2bwEA - the comments at the bottom

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3031054/?fbclid=IwY2xjawFBRlJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHartZNtxZcpZcKERQ35znnplbP58D6P5kpHZXMt3v4UYRWY4BTWPNOJdlA_aem_BlY-88SZpgVmbR630ptuUw

 

Some excerpts from the "Screaming To Be Heard' book by Elizabeth Lee Vliet, MD.

'Many women have told me over the years that they have become depressed when they take progesterone or use the ‘wild yam’ progesterone creams. This is to be expected due to progesterone’s effects on the brain, since several metabolic breakdown products of the nature human progesterone molecule are very potent depressants of brain (CNS) function. One of the metabolites of progesterone (3-alpha-OH-DHP) has been found to be about eight times more potent as a CNS depressant producing antianxiety, sedative effects than the most potent barbiturate known today, methohexital. Studies looking at the anti-convulsant actions of 3-alpha-OH-DHP have found it to be more potent than clonazepam (Klonopin), a high-potency benzodiazepine used for epilepsy and panic disorder. Depressed mood occurring with progesterone is similar to the depressant effects on some women when taking Klonopin or Valium.

The neuroendocrine studies that have identified these progesterone metabolic products and their effects at brain receptors go back several decades, but much of this literature has not made its way into general clinical settings, particularly in the fields of psychiatry and gynecology. The progesterone metabolites above actually attach to GABA receptors, the same ones that bind the benzodiazepine drugs. At higher levels, progesterone actually acts very much like these anti-anxiety medications by attaching to the GABA receptor sites and causing release of the inhibitory neurotransmitter GABA, just as Klonpin, Valium, and the others in this group of medicines do. Inhibitory action at the GABA receptor complex causes decreased anxiety, decrease in seizures, increased sedation, delay in word recall and verbal responses, and potential increase in depression. The depressant effects seem to occur at higher doses than are needed for anti-anxiety effects, again similar to those effects we see with benzodiazepines. The depressant effects of progesterone are now thought to primarily occur from one of its metabolites, 3-alpha, 5-alpha-THP and allopregnanolone. Levels of allopregnanolone have been shown to correlate well with circulating levels of progesterone in the bloodstream.

An interesting observation in several studies is that progesterone given to either men or women produces effects like Valium (and other benzodiazepines) on such measurable variables as heart rate, blood pressure, respiratory rate, and the electrocardiogram patterns. It also causes quite pronounced daytime sleepiness for many, male or female. The flip side of this effect is that progesterone produces withdrawal effects similar to other medications that act at the GABA receptor, such as benzodiazepines and barbituates. This effect has been shown in men and women. This withdrawal syndrome increases anxiety, restlessness, insomnia, tearfulness, and other effects.The binding of progesterone metabolites to the GABA receptor complex appears to be one of the primary reasons that high doses of progesterone help decrease anxiety in some women with severe PMS. The doses typically used for PMS treatment may run anywhere from 400-1600mg a day and produce blood levels actually higher than the levels of progesterone seen in the third trimester of pregnancy. Such high doses are actually providing a pharmacologic effect on the brain, similar to benzodiazepine medicines...'

 

[LotusRising]

Hi @ProgesteroneWD,

 

Welcome to SA,

 

Could you first help us out by creating a signature? How to Create a Signature

 

30 minutes ago, ProgesteroneWD said:

I am just worried that I am now going to go through this every month and wondered if anyone else has ever heard of anything like this?

 

This is not the first time I've heard this, but it does seem to be rare. Without knowing your history though, it would be difficult to comment.

 

32 minutes ago, ProgesteroneWD said:

I began to feeling increasingly worse as days not taking it went on, absolutely terrible, with tension in the head, headache, sore legs, anxiety/panic etc

Have you felt any of these symptoms before?

 

33 minutes ago, ProgesteroneWD said:

The progesterone metabolites above actually attach to GABA receptors, the same ones that bind the benzodiazepine drugs.

So, I've heard mixed information about this, but progesterone is metabolized into allopregnanolone and pregnanolone, which basically stimulates the brain to make its own gaba. It's this gaba that binds to the receptors, not the metabolites themselves. I don't know if it actually makes a difference but it seems to me that because you took so much over such a short period of time, it was simply too much for your body to handle at once. 

 

[ProgesteroneWD]

2 minutes ago, LotusRising said:

Hi @ProgesteroneWD,

 

Welcome to SA,

 

Could you first help us out by creating a signature? How to Create a Signature

 

 

This is not the first time I've heard this, but it does seem to be rare. Without knowing your history though, it would be difficult to comment.

 

Have you felt any of these symptoms before?

 

So, I've heard mixed information about this, but progesterone is metabolized into allopregnanolone and pregnanolone, which basically stimulates the brain to make its own gaba. It's this gaba that binds to the receptors, not the metabolites themselves. I don't know if it actually makes a difference but it seems to me that because you took so much over such a short period of time, it was simply too much for your body to handle at once. 

 

The doctor actually prescribed 200mg but I only took 100mg.

 

My friend took 400mg daily during IVF with no affect on ceasing and so have many others so seems im unlucky.

 

I just don't know what to do now.

 

Reinstate? Tough it out? 

[ProgesteroneWD]

12 minutes ago, LotusRising said:

Hi @ProgesteroneWD,

 

Welcome to SA,

 

Could you first help us out by creating a signature? How to Create a Signature

 

 

This is not the first time I've heard this, but it does seem to be rare. Without knowing your history though, it would be difficult to comment.

 

Have you felt any of these symptoms before?

 

So, I've heard mixed information about this, but progesterone is metabolized into allopregnanolone and pregnanolone, which basically stimulates the brain to make its own gaba. It's this gaba that binds to the receptors, not the metabolites themselves. I don't know if it actually makes a difference but it seems to me that because you took so much over such a short period of time, it was simply too much for your body to handle at once. 

 

The doctor actually prescribed 200mg but I only took 100mg.

 

My friend took 400mg daily during IVF with no affect on ceasing and so have many others so seems im unlucky.

 

I just don't know what to do now.

 

Reinstate? Tough it out? 

 

Obviously if I'd found this site I would have done 10% taper.

 

You will note I was on 100mg but when I did go back on apart from the first few days when I used 100mg I went down to just a few dabs then 1 dab so I don't think I'd need to reinstate up at 100mg

 

But I'm super worried after reading the 10% taper advice because it really focuses on the damage you can do if you don't do 10% taper and Obviously its too late for me now as I can't undo so feeling very upset and worried 😫

[LotusRising]

@ProgesteroneWD

 

1 hour ago, ProgesteroneWD said:

I've been constantly reading how you cannot take too much progesterone so I was v confused!

Yes, I've read this too and I'm not sure if this is good advice or not. There is also some research to show that the receptors can become sensitized, which is why it's prescribed with a short break.

 

It's possible your symptoms are due to an imbalance in hormones, that was created by taking progesterone. I suspect your symptoms will subside as your hormones rebalance. If it were me, I wouldn't reinstate since you took it for such a short period of time.

 

But, there is also a facebook group called the estrogen dominance support group. They talk a lot about the use of progesterone. I wonder if you might find more information there?

[ProgesteroneWD]

29 minutes ago, LotusRising said:

@ProgesteroneWD

 

Yes, I've read this too and I'm not sure if this is good advice or not. There is also some research to show that the receptors can become sensitized, which is why it's prescribed with a short break.

 

It's possible your symptoms are due to an imbalance in hormones, that was created by taking progesterone. I suspect your symptoms will subside as your hormones rebalance. If it were me, I wouldn't reinstate since you took it for such a short period of time.

 

But, there is also a facebook group called the estrogen dominance support group. They talk a lot about the use of progesterone. I wonder if you might find more information there?

No its not hormone imbalance I've read extensively on benzo withdrawal and Glutamate and its that. I'm so sensitive at the moment had to cut my anti histamine down to a quarter of usual dose for example!

 

My hormones are actually better because I addressed leaky gut and reduced my histamine and my period this time was short, light and no PMS! I was in that group you are not permitted to say anything bad about progesterone and theu just tell you to keep upping your progesterone dose!!! 

 

I'm very sensitive generally so 10 days was obviously enough to create tolerance for me! 

[LotusRising]

 

52 minutes ago, ProgesteroneWD said:

I'm very sensitive generally so 10 days was obviously enough to create tolerance for me! 

Yes, I guess it was! Sorry you had that experience. 

 

52 minutes ago, ProgesteroneWD said:

I was in that group you are not permitted to say anything bad about progesterone and theu just tell you to keep upping your progesterone dose!!! 

Yes! I know what you mean. They are quite one-sided! And to me it just doesn't seem safe to keep increasing the dose. Glad to hear you've worked on your gut - this has a big impact on hormones too. 

 

Please continue to reach out if you need to. 

[Farm24]

2 hours ago, ProgesteroneWD said:

The doctor actually prescribed 200mg but I only took 100mg.

 

My friend took 400mg daily during IVF with no affect on ceasing and so have many others so seems im unlucky.

 

I just don't know what to do now.

 

Reinstate? Tough it out? 

 

Obviously if I'd found this site I would have done 10% taper.

 

You will note I was on 100mg but when I did go back on apart from the first few days when I used 100mg I went down to just a few dabs then 1 dab so I don't think I'd need to reinstate up at 100mg

 

But I'm super worried after reading the 10% taper advice because it really focuses on the damage you can do if you don't do 10% taper and Obviously its too late for me now as I can't undo so feeling very upset and worried 😫

Are you still using valium

[ProgesteroneWD]

2 hours ago, Farm24 said:

Are you still using valium

I don't use valium regularly and when I do its only 0.5 mg it was maybe 6 months since I had last taken it before this

 

I've taken 0.5 mg x 3 during this whole thing....

 

Took that last night after 4 hours of anxiety that camomile tea ans CBD didn't help. It did help and I got 4 hours sleep.

 

The fact it helped makes me think I perhaps should reinstate (at av low dose)

 

I've ordered topical progesterone cream and was thinking of trying 10mg to see if can stabile with that?

[ProgesteroneWD]

5 hours ago, LotusRising said:

 

Yes, I guess it was! Sorry you had that experience. 

 

Yes! I know what you mean. They are quite one-sided! And to me it just doesn't seem safe to keep increasing the dose. Glad to hear you've worked on your gut - this has a big impact on hormones too. 

 

Please continue to reach out if you need to. 

Thank you

 

Last night after my posts the anxiety was unbearable and had gone on for hours

 

I ended up taking 0.5mg of valium and it helped stop the anxiety and let me sleep

 

I am obviously not wanting to take this for obvious reasons and in the last month through all this have used around 4 does of this amount in total (as mainly relying on CBD and camomile tea).

 

Just wanted your thoughts/other thoughts on very occasional use when things are dire....

[ProgesteroneWD]

@Altostrata would love your input if you've ever come across Progesterone withdrawal 🙏

[Emonda]

Hi ProgesteroneWD,

Alto is not active here these days (she drops past occasionally), so it is best not to tag her.

 

3 hours ago, ProgesteroneWD said:

I ended up taking 0.5mg of valium and it helped stop the anxiety and let me sleep

 

You need to be very, very careful. You can end up dependent on these sorts of things quickly...but it sounds like you are aware of this risk.

 

Wishing you well.

[ProgesteroneWD]

3 minutes ago, Emonda said:

Hi ProgesteroneWD,

Alto is not active here these days (she drops past occasionally), so it is best not to tag her.

 

 

You need to be very, very careful. You can end up dependent on these sorts of things quickly...but it sounds like you are aware of this risk.

 

Wishing you well.

Ah didn't realise 

 

Yes very aware as mentioned in the 5 weks or so only used 4 times 1/4 of a tablet just when I felt so so so bad 

 

Wondering if the fact I can still utilise the valium means I could be ok going back onto super lowdown of the progesterone to stabilise then once stable micro taper off (otherwise when my next period is due if I'm as sensitive/unstable as I am now illhave another potential withdrawal from my own progesterone which could cause further kindling)

[Emonda]

1 minute ago, ProgesteroneWD said:

Ah didn't realise

👍

 

5 minutes ago, ProgesteroneWD said:

going back onto super lowdown of the progesterone

 

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about this topic. I'm sorry.

[Farm24]

IMO the best answer is to stop using or doing things and it will even out. It may take a while. Www.benzobuddies.org discusses people who use benzos on and off and it can cause kindling. I would be very wary using them

[Farm24]

Maybe the progesterone stirred things up and now the meds are working funky. 

[ProgesteroneWD]

7 minutes ago, Farm24 said:

IMO the best answer is to stop using or doing things and it will even out. It may take a while. Www.benzobuddies.org discusses people who use benzos on and off and it can cause kindling. I would be very wary using them

I get that but wouldn't that be in context of brnzo tolerance /WD? Which isn't my issue?

 

I'm hypersensitive now because of my period and further withdrawal there.... May already be in kindling because of that as I wasn't this sensitive until now (any fragrance now settlmg me off for example)

[ProgesteroneWD]

Just now, Farm24 said:

Maybe the progesterone stirred things up and now the meds are working funky. 

I'm not sure what you mean stirred up as its more than stirred up its progesterone WD 😫

[Farm24]

1 minute ago, ProgesteroneWD said:

I get that but wouldn't that be in context of brnzo tolerance /WD? Which isn't my issue?

 

I'm hypersensitive now because of my period and further withdrawal there.... May already be in kindling because of that as I wasn't this sensitive until now (any fragrance now settlmg me off for example)

Yeah. That is weird. Very common WD symptoms. What I mean is maybe the progesterone made your cns sensitive and now you are also reacting to the Valium. 

[ProgesteroneWD]

40 minutes ago, Emonda said:

👍

 

 

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about this topic. I'm sorry.

Nobody seems to really 😫

[ProgesteroneWD]

I've read the files on taper /reinstate/stabilise - its so hard to make a choice 😫 

[ProgesteroneWD]

See my other post on progesterone WD mirroring a benzo WD (only took it for 10 days but its wreaked havoc and I'm hypersensitive and suffering WD and because its progesterone worried about monthly bleed creating mini withdrawal/kindling each month)

 

I want to hear from those who reinstated benzos did it help?

 

For those who didn't do you wish you had etc

 

Its so hard to make a choice!

[LotusRising]

9 hours ago, ProgesteroneWD said:

Just wanted your thoughts/other thoughts on very occasional use when things are dire....

It's easy to become dependent on benzos and tolerance can build quickly. This can happen in as little as 2-3 weeks, even when taking them sporadically. If you can avoid taking the benzo and instead lean into coping skills, that would be the ideal option. But I realize this isn't always possible.

 

What does the anxiety feel like? Are you using any coping skills to manage it? 

[Emonda]

5 hours ago, ProgesteroneWD said:

See my other post on progesterone WD

 

I've moved your new post back here. Each member has one topic only, so please keep updating this topic.

 

Regards, Emonda

[LostInCanada]

Hi @ProgesteroneWD when I put in a search for progesterone I found this on the member @AndroBot:

I tried some other stuff like progesterone cream which was supposed to be calming and seemed to but now realize it creates its own withdrawal like a benzo so I’m trying to just start fresh and let my body do it naturally.

 

Maybe you could pool your resources with each other. 

Welcome to SA ♥️

[ProgesteroneWD]

7 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

Hi @ProgesteroneWD when I put in a search for progesterone I found this on the member @AndroBot:

I tried some other stuff like progesterone cream which was supposed to be calming and seemed to but now realize it creates its own withdrawal like a benzo so I’m trying to just start fresh and let my body do it naturally.

 

Maybe you could pool your resources with each other. 

Welcome to SA ♥️

Yes on benzo buddies there is quite a bit in those going through benzo withdrawal having a hard time with progesterone WD after!

 

I just seen to be quite rare (along with 12 other women I've found) that has only been affected with progesterone (rather than benzo/progesterone cross tolerance)

 

I read a lot last night on reinstatement on BB and I think I'm not going to do it and try my best to keep going. 

 

Also spoke to Dr Jen Leigh last night too.

 

Thank you ❤️