Escargot : almost 20 years of paroxetine, several attemps to stop, new slow tapering started end of 2021

[Escargot]

Hello, I'm from France, my english may not be perfect. Hope you will understand me well.

To keep it short, I started paroxetine (Deroxat commercial name in France) in 2005. 20mg a day, during a kind of burnout. Starting was horrible. Lots of panic attacks, sweats, flu like feeling, no energy, not able to stay up more than some minutes… Over time, after some months, it started to be ok, except I could not sleep without help – I took stillnox for several years. Did not know at that time we become dependant after only some weeks.

Success to stop stillnox, with help of melatonine and antihistaminic (donormyl in France), but still need to take them to hope sleep correctly – it depends of nights…

Never been able to stop paroxetine. Several attemps to taper, until full stop or not. Each time, too hard withdrawal symptoms. The first time tapering was very fast, over some weeks. Acute and post acute symptoms. Then I tapered more slowly, over some months, even used liquid paroxetine in 2018 to taper over several months. Some withdrawal symptoms during tapering, but I could manage them,  but hard symptoms around 2 months after full stop of medicine. Some « strange » feelings not during more than some months but switching from one to another (flu like, feeling cold, bad mood, sleeping disorders, different pains) and also hard muscle pains. I thought it was I relapse one more time (it is what my doctor said), so I started again paroxetine. Like all the other times, restart was very hard…

I discovered that forum some years ago. You cannot imagine the tremendous relief it was. After more than 15 years under paroxetine, I finally found all those people having the same problems/symptoms than me. On french forums, there is nothing. I though it was only me, could not link what I felt with anything, and thus not with paroxetine.

End of 2021, with more information thanks to that forum, and with help of my girlfriend (not anymore with her), I started one more time to taper, more slowly (but finally, still not as it’s recommended to do… ☹ ☹). Liquid paroxetine is not available anymore (it’s a shame !!). I cut my pills… Switched from 1 pill to 0.75 pill a day, then 0.5, then 0.25, over 1 year. It was hard, very hard sometimes, the most difficult symptom was muscle pains all over the day and night.

I did a stop at 0.25 pill a day for 1.5 year, until muscle pains become far better. It nevers come back to previous state, but it was manageable, only pains in the second part of nights, and only some other times but not long times.

End of june 2024 I started to cut my pill in 1/8, so 0.125 a day. July was a very nice month, no symptoms, lot of energy (I did 22 hours of sport in the month, which did not occur over the last 20 years). In august, I started to feel tired each time I did some exercices, but it was ok the rest of the time.

And now, from end of August, withdrawal symptoms are back. I had Covid, so initially I though it was still covid, but now I’m quite sure it’s not. I feel very tired, flu like symptoms, fell like my legs can’t support me, feel like my arms and hands are weak. I cannot do any exercice. I had this during COVID (normal), then I felt better, and now it’s worsening more. I feel anxious also, my feet are cold and that night I was too hot... (already had those symptoms during withdrawal)

I now I switched from 0.25 pill to 0.125, so 50% taper, and at low dose, witch is not recommanded. Moreover, I bought a very precise balance 2 days ago, and noticed my 0.125 pill were not equal (very hard to do it precisely), which does not help to train my brain with something steady. From now, I weight my doses, so it’s steady. I tried to dilute in water or orange juice but it dose not work, so I stay at cutting pills...

Now honestly I’m wondering If I should come back to previous dosage (0.25 pill a day) and then taper more slowly. My concern is that my switch from 0.25 to 0.125 started 2.5 months ago now…it may be too late to reinstate.

 

Any advice would be welcome 😊

 

Many many thanks to that forum to exist.

[LotusRising]

Hi @Escargot

 

Welcome to SA,

 

On 9/7/2024 at 3:31 AM, Escargot said:

Now honestly I’m wondering If I should come back to previous dosage (0.25 pill a day) and then taper more slowly. My concern is that my switch from 0.25 to 0.125 started 2.5 months ago now…it may be too late to reinstate.

To confirm, it has been 2 months since you made this reduction? If it has, I would not updose the full amount.

 

Have you seen the thread below on tapering paroxetine? 

 

 

[Escargot]

Yes, I started my reduction on june 27th, more than 2 months ago.

For my situation, each time I reduced, each time most important withdrawal syndroms started around 2 months later (except brain zaps, but they never lasted more than few days or weeks)

I read the thread about tips for reducing paroxetine some weeks ago. I'll do it again.

2 main concerns for my situation:

-liquid form of paroxetine has been officially stopped in 2023. Only 20mg pills exist for the one I have (Deroxat).

-I try to make my own liquid, with water and orange juice, but it did not work, it was insoluble. I read people talked about used "ora-plus" or "ora-bend" solution to solve the problem, but those products does not exist in France. Probably others exist, but I did not find equivalent for the moment.

[LostInCanada]

On 9/9/2024 at 1:10 PM, Escargot said:

I try to make my own liquid, with water and orange juice, but it did not work, it was insoluble.

Paroxetine is fully soluble. If particles are left, that is just the filler in the pill. Use only water. It may help to crush the pill between 2 spoons before adding to water. 

Refrigerate after allowing time to dissolve. Solution is not stable. Some have used it for 3 days. 

Did you completely stop taking paroxetine? If so what day? What was the last size of dose you took and for how long?

 

[Escargot]

Thanks for your answer LostInCanada.

Thanks for your advice, I'll try again to dissolve paroxetine into water.

I did not fully stopped paroxetine. After 1.5 year at 1/4 pill (5mg), I swtiched to 1/8 pill (2.5mg) from june 27th, so 50% reduction. 

Usually after a reduction, I feel good for around 2 months, and then withdrawal syndroms occur. But it took a lot of years before I understood that link...

[LostInCanada]

@Escargot are you still experiencing withdrawal symptoms or have they levelled off? 

Also many on here use the Gem 20 jewelry scale found on Amazon to weigh pills though eventually going to liquid becomes necessary.

[LostInCanada]

 

 

[Escargot]

5 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

@Escargot are you still experiencing withdrawal symptoms or have they levelled off? 

Also many on here use the Gem 20 jewelry scale found on Amazon to weigh pills though eventually going to liquid becomes necessary.

Before tapering from 5mg to 2.5mg, the most severe had become far better, it was stable.

Now, from start of the month, 2 months after tapering from 5mg to 2.5mg, some have come back, among them a lot a fatigue, asthenia, flu like sensation. It tends to improve, but it depends on the day. Each day is different now.

[Escargot]

5 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

 

 

I already read that thread. I tried to find "ora-plus" or "ora-bend" solution to fully dissolve my pills, but did not find it available in France.

[LostInCanada]

10 minutes ago, Escargot said:

I tried to find "ora-plus" or "ora-bend" solution

This is only necessary if you have a drug that is not soluble. Paroxetine is soluble. There are many examples of making a solution with particles(filler) in that thread.

[LostInCanada]

13 minutes ago, Escargot said:

It tends to improve

Good to hear. It will eventually smooth out after a long hold. Then taper no more than 10% every 4 weeks maximum. 👍