terpsichore: venlafaxine (Effexor) withdrawal

[terpsichore]

Hello, everyone. I came to this forum thanks to ChatGPT, of all places. I asked it, "What is the longest venlafaxine protracted withdrawal case reported in literature?", and it listed this article as one of the sources. This forum was mentioned in the article, so I decided to create an account. After reading some of the posts, I decided to write my own introduction.

 

I'm currently 41 years old, but I've been on and off antidepressants since I was 17 years old. My mom started seeing a doctor who prescribed her antidepressants, and it didn't take long for her to take me to the same doctor. I've dealt with anxiety my whole life, and I had a lot of trouble making friends. This doctor wasn't even a psychiatrist, but my mom started seeing improvements in her life after she began seeing him, so she thought she was helping me by putting me on antidepressants, too. He was prone to experimenting with different drugs, though - he'd change our meds for no apparent reason. I guess whenever a new medication was introduced in the market, he'd try it on his patients. No tapering from one medication to another. I remember taking fluoxetine, and probably sertraline and bupropion, but I'm not sure.

 

I kept seeing this doctor until I was in my early 20s. I'd stop taking the meds cold turkey when I felt better, and I'd go back to them when I felt down again. Over the years, I saw many other doctors, who also prescribed me fluoxetine again. I didn't know a thing about withdrawal, and none of the doctors that prescribed me those meds ever told me about it. By the time I was prescribed venlafaxine, I was convinced I had some "chemical imbalance", and that I'd have to take antidepressants for the rest of my life. So I decided this time I wouldn't quit.

 

I went from 75mg/daily to 225mg, which is the highest dose usually prescribed in my country. I was working a job that was very unfulfilling and caused me a lot of stress, and whenever the pressure got too high, my dose was upped. I needed the meds to be able to function, but venlafaxine caused me many side effects, such as grinding my teeth during my sleep, which in turn caused headaches, as well pain in my neck, shoulders, and arms. I missed many days of work due to this, which in turn caused more stress at my job (I'm a tenured public school teacher, so I can't get fired for that, but my principal wasn't very happy with that, of course). I ended up taking an extended medical leave in November 2023.

 

About two years ago, I got diagnosed with ADHD, and it made me realize that my depression/anxiety were a direct cause of this. I've never been able to be as productive as other people. I had great ideas which I was never able to put into practice, because I lacked the motivation. I'm not a disciplined person, I miss deadlines - this all caused a great deal of shame and frustration. After I met my boyfriend last year, he noticed I had a lot of trouble with my memory - my brain didn't register a big chunk of our conversations, for example. He said it might be caused by antidepressant use. I started reading more about it, and decided I'd taper my dose - I had already asked my doctor to reduce it, because it was causing more side effects with no real improvements, so he reduced it from 225 to 150mg in January 2024. I wasn't satisfied with that doctor, so I found another. She kept prescribing 150mg, but sometime around May or June 2024 I told her I no longer wanted to take venlafaxine, and she prescribed me 75mg, then 37mg, then 0. She gave me bupropion 150mg, though - according to her, I need to be on some form of antidepressant medication. So I started taking it alongside the venlafaxine 75mg, then continued during the 37mg dose, until I ran out. I took it for about 2 months, only, and quit it. I didn't see the point. My brain wasn't making memories. On top of that, she thinks I might also be on the autism spectrum. I don't have an official diagnosis, because at the moment I can't afford an evaluation, but I'd suspected I might be autistic for many years. However, other doctors before her would always dismiss me.

 

I believe my issues with anxiety and depression stem from the challenges of untreated autism/ADHD. I didn't even need antidepressants in the first place. I also received counseling at various points in my life, but none of my therapists had issues with me being medicated - on the contrary, they'd always support it. Not one of them noticed I might have ADHD - I basically diagnosed myself, after reading extensively about the subject. I went to a neurologist and told him I had all these symptoms, and he agreed with me. Only the last doctor, who is fresh out of her residency in psychiatry, mentioned I might also be autistic. However, she also does what all the other psychiatrists in my country do, which is to give out antidepressants and benzos like candy. I haven't told her I quit bupropion, and she wanted to up my dose to 300mg daily... I feel I can't discuss withdrawal with her, or any other doctor for that matter. Yes, she's better that all the other doctors I've seen in my life, but she's also a product of my country's medical schools.

 

I feel I was failed by all these professionals. They didn't even diagnose me correctly. They didn't tell me about withdrawal. They dismissed me when I complained about side effects (one doctor even told me teeth grinding wasn't even a side effect of venlafaxine, when it's on the leaflet that comes with it). You as a patient need to do your own research and even educate doctors, sometimes. I'm so thankful for having found this forum. It makes me feel less alone. I haven't been able to work for many months. I was feeling pathetic and worthless. Some days are better than others, and yesterday I was having a really bad day when I found this site. There are many more details I'd like to add to this introduction, but I think I've written a lot already, and I guess I'll be coming back to this topic to document my healing journey. Thanks to all that have read it so far.

 

[terpsichore]

I realize now I haven't mentioned my specific withdrawal symptoms, which I guess should be the focus of the post. I wake up most days with a feeling of dread. Anxiety so bad, it feels like someone is squeezing my heart. I'm constantly on high alert, and I have crying spells most days. Life feels hopeless and pointless. Sometimes I want to end it all, honestly. As the day progresses, my symptoms might or might not improve; I have bad days and good days. Up until last week, I thought the worst had already passed, because I wasn't having as many physical symptoms, such as brain zaps. I was feeling optimistic about life and making plans, but I got some bad news that sent me into a loop of negativity, and it's really hard to get out of it. Everything seems so bleak. I try to remember all the good things that have happened in my life, but this dread, this negativity, they contaminate even my best memories. I sometimes still grind my teeth, and sleep hasn't been great, either.

[Jane318]

Greetings @terpsichore and welcome to SA!  We are a community of volunteers providing peer support in the tapering of psychiatric medications and their associated withdrawal syndromes. 

 

Thank you for sharing this snapshot of your story.  I am so sorry for all you have gone through, but I am glad you found us.  Thank you for sharing how you did!

 

Tragically, your experience with the mainstream medical community is far from unique.  The healthcare professionals and many patients have been programmed to look to a pill as the magic bullet for every problem we have in life.  SA exists to help people get off these harmful drugs so they can tackle life's challenges with a healthy brain and body.

 

This is your introduction topic.  Each member gets one intro topic- please post updates and questions here, in this thread.

 

Do explore the rest of the forum – there is a lot of great information here.  Be sure to read “About SurvivingAntidepressants.org,” which has good information about how to use / search the site: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/54-about-survivingantidepressantsorg  

 

Also, feel free to read and comment on the intro threads of other members.  This is how you build a community of people who understand what you are dealing with.   It is so helpful to connect with others who are experiencing the same things.

 

 

[Jane318]

On 11/9/2024 at 9:45 AM, terpsichore said:

I realize now I haven't mentioned my specific withdrawal symptoms, which I guess should be the focus of the post. I wake up most days with a feeling of dread. Anxiety so bad, it feels like someone is squeezing my heart. I'm constantly on high alert, and I have crying spells most days. Life feels hopeless and pointless. Sometimes I want to end it all, honestly. As the day progresses, my symptoms might or might not improve; I have bad days and good days. Up until last week, I thought the worst had already passed, because I wasn't having as many physical symptoms, such as brain zaps. I was feeling optimistic about life and making plans, but I got some bad news that sent me into a loop of negativity, and it's really hard to get out of it. Everything seems so bleak. I try to remember all the good things that have happened in my life, but this dread, this negativity, they contaminate even my best memories. I sometimes still grind my teeth, and sleep hasn't been great, either.

 

@terpsichore -

 

Thank you for completing your signature.  I see that you have tapered from 225 mg/day Venlafaxine to zero since January of this year.  This is much faster than we recommend, and this is likely why you are experiencing such difficult withdrawal symptoms right now.   Here at SA, we recommend the hyperbolic taper method, which you can read about here:  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

I recommend you consider reinstating a small dose of Venlafaxine in order to stabilize.  Reinstatement predictably works up to 3 months after last dose, and sometimes longer.   We usually suggest a much smaller reinstatement dose than your last dose.  These drugs are strong, and when reinstating it is better to start with a small amount and increase if symptoms remain unbearable. Your system has become sensitized and If you take too much it may be too much for your brain and can cause you become unstable.  Sometimes it can be hard to regain stability after this happens.  Then, once you've stabilized on that dosage, which can take several months,  you can begin a 10% per month taper down to zero.   Please read:

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms. -- at least the first page of the topic

 It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

 

Also read:

 How long does it take to stabilize after reinstating or updosing?

 Hypersensitivity and kindling

 

Let me know if you think you should reinstate and want input on reinstatement dosage.  Alternately, you can try your best to "power through."  It is your choice.  We want you to be safe.

 

Whether you decide to reinstate or wait it out, it will likely take several months for you to stabilize.  

 

 

During this time, it is normal to have periods where you feel better, and periods where you feel terrible.  This is what we call the windows and waves pattern of stabilization.  Read more about windows and waves here:

 The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

We have many threads on how to cope with symptoms – I encourage you to check out the various forums / links on the SA.org home page.

 

Please keep us updated on what you decide and how we can help.  

 

 

[terpsichore]

Thanks, @Jane318. I've been reading other people's intros, and also the posts on how to deal with withdrawal symptoms available on the forum. I hadn't thought about reinstating a small dose of venlafaxine. I need to think about it. On the one hand, I'm so glad this medication is out of my system. It caused a lot of damage to my memory and ability to focus, and I think it prevented me from figuring out the root causes of my problems - if you have memory issues, there's no learning, and if there's no learning, there's no growth. I'm scared that reinstating venlafaxine, even in a very small dose, might do more harm than good. On the other hand, the depression and anxiety I've been feeling are worse than whatever I had before I started taking antidepressants in the first place.

 

I've been practicing mindfulness and meditation, and when life seems to be impossible, I try to focus on the positives. I think of all the reasons I have to be grateful, and I'm kind to myself on the days I can't be productive. Yesterday was a good day. But today I woke up feeling like I'm worthless, and the world is a terrible place. It took me much longer than usual to get out of bed.

 

There are some issues causing a lot of anxiety. I'm not in a very secure financial position - I'll either have to go back to the classroom, or quit my job. I have no more sick days available. I can't and I won't go back. I've been trying to get into private tutoring, but at the moment I only have three students. December/January are the summer vacation months in my country, and I won't be tutoring these kids during this period, which will negatively impact my finances. On top of that, my boyfriend is also dealing with severe financial issues, to the point he might become homeless in a couple of months. I've been helping him as much as I can, but if I don't start making more money, soon I won't have enough for myself.

 

I want to start my life over, but I feel like I'm running out of time. I'm no longer in my 20s or 30s. I have a sense of urgency, that I need to be doing everything I can to build a financially stable life for me. But these symptoms make me doubt myself - they amplify feelings of worthlessness, of low self esteem. They make me feel like it's game over for me. When I'm in the middle of this, I just want the pain to end, and I'm not able to work towards my dreams.

 

My next appointment with my psychiatrist is in December. I guess I'm going to see how things go from now on, and I might consider reinstating the dose.

[Jane318]

13 hours ago, terpsichore said:

I hadn't thought about reinstating a small dose of venlafaxine. I need to think about it. On the one hand, I'm so glad this medication is out of my system. It caused a lot of damage to my memory and ability to focus, and I think it prevented me from figuring out the root causes of my problems - if you have memory issues, there's no learning, and if there's no learning, there's no growth. I'm scared that reinstating venlafaxine, even in a very small dose, might do more harm than good. On the other hand, the depression and anxiety I've been feeling are worse than whatever I had before I started taking antidepressants in the first place.

@terpsichore - I totally understand your reluctance to reinstate.  We all want to be 100% free of these harmful drugs!  I also have come to see that ~ 35 years on ADs has kept me from learning how to work through my problems, which is how we learn and grow.  Once we realize how these drugs have damaged our lives of course we want off of them - fast and forever!  And amazingly, our bodies can and do heal, but it takes time.  And venlafaxine is one of the most difficult drugs to stop, as it turns out.  You tapered off very quickly.  As you note, the withdrawal can be far worse than what we were going through when the doctor prescribed the AD in the first place.  

 

In general, do you feel your symptoms are improving with time?  If not, reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal syndrome. Keep in mind that it would be a small dose - you might try perhaps the last dose you were taking or no more than 10% above that.   It isn’t a guarantee of diminished symptoms but it’s the best tactic available, and it is best done within 3 months or so of stopping.  When was your last dose of Venlafaxine?  And can you update your drug signature to reflect that please?

 

The only alternative to reinstatement is to try and wait out the symptoms and manage as best you can until your central nervous system returns to homeostasis.  Unfortunately no one can give you an exact timeline as to when you will start feeling better and while some do recover relatively easily, for others it can take many months or longer.  Only you can decide what is best for you, and whether you can continue to deal with current symptom severity.

 

13 hours ago, terpsichore said:

I've been practicing mindfulness and meditation, and when life seems to be impossible, I try to focus on the positives. I think of all the reasons I have to be grateful, and I'm kind to myself on the days I can't be productive. Yesterday was a good day. But today I woke up feeling like I'm worthless, and the world is a terrible place. It took me much longer than usual to get out of bed.

You are to be commended for having the will and courage to initiate actions / activities to help you cope with symptoms.  Re-programming our minds not only helps us feel better, latest neuroscience research shows that it promotes physical healing in the brain as well!  Feeling good one day and terrible the next is, unfortunately, normal - it is  The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization.

 

I recommend you start tracking your symptoms every day.  This will help you identify the windows and waves and reveal your progress, which is encouragement we need!  You can use the following list of typical withdrawal symptoms as a template for a journal, if you wish:  Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF).  Not everyone experiences all these symptoms - I just track the ones that apply to me.

13 hours ago, terpsichore said:

There are some issues causing a lot of anxiety.

Stress is triply (or more) difficult during withdrawal.  I have totally "lost it" over things that before I would have found merely irritating.  Yet you have serious things going on.  

 

13 hours ago, terpsichore said:

I want to start my life over, but I feel like I'm running out of time. I'm no longer in my 20s or 30s. I have a sense of urgency, that I need to be doing everything I can to build a financially stable life for me.

Many of us deal with this pain - that we have lost so much of our lives.  However, it is never to late to "start over."  We do it by taking a day at a time, a step at a time.

 

13 hours ago, terpsichore said:

But these symptoms make me doubt myself - they amplify feelings of worthlessness, of low self esteem. They make me feel like it's game over for me. When I'm in the middle of this, I just want the pain to end, and I'm not able to work towards my dreams.

Intense withdrawal amplifies these feelings many-fold, it can cripple us.  Try to remember, it is the withdrawal, it is not the real you!  You have accomplished much in your life, and you have much ahead of you.

 

Thinking of you as you contemplate next steps.  Please reach out with any questions.  (You might also search the site for "reinstate.")

[terpsichore]

9 hours ago, Jane318 said:

In general, do you feel your symptoms are improving with time?  If not, reinstatement of a very small dose of the original drug is the only known way to help alleviate withdrawal syndrome. Keep in mind that it would be a small dose - you might try perhaps the last dose you were taking or no more than 10% above that.   It isn’t a guarantee of diminished symptoms but it’s the best tactic available, and it is best done within 3 months or so of stopping.  When was your last dose of Venlafaxine?  And can you update your drug signature to reflect that please?

After the first few weeks, which were brutal, they seemed to be improving. I was sleeping better, and had fewer anxiety/depression episodes. But for a little over a week, I've been having severe symptoms. Mornings have been terrible. I don't even like going to bed, because I know I'm going to wake up with a sense of dread. My last dose of venlafaxine was a little over 3 months ago (I need to check the exact dates, but I believe it was sometime in July). Had I found this forum earlier, I'd have tapered my dose much more slowly, and kept a log of my symptoms. But now it is done. Should I try to reinstate my dose anyway?

 

9 hours ago, Jane318 said:

I recommend you start tracking your symptoms every day.  This will help you identify the windows and waves and reveal your progress, which is encouragement we need!  You can use the following list of typical withdrawal symptoms as a template for a journal, if you wish:  Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF).  Not everyone experiences all these symptoms - I just track the ones that apply to me.

This resource will be very useful. I journal sometimes, but I'm not consistent with it. This will make keeping track of my symptoms much easier.

 

Thanks for the words of support. I haven't been able to open up about my struggles with anyone other than my boyfriend. I'm afraid if I talk to my family about it, they'll tell me to go back to my hometown, which is something I don't want to do. I came to this city for better opportunities, but things have been very slow. Going back would feel like a failure. Plus I know moving back wouldn't improve my symptoms. I haven't reached out to friends, either. I now realize how depression can destroy friendships. You isolate yourself because you don't want to burden others with your problems, and you feel ashamed of your situation. You don't know how they'll react, if they're going to be supportive, or dismissive. So you never reach out, and after months or years of no contact, it feels awkward to reconnect. I feel very lonely.

[Jane318]

7 hours ago, terpsichore said:

After the first few weeks, which were brutal, they seemed to be improving. I was sleeping better, and had fewer anxiety/depression episodes. But for a little over a week, I've been having severe symptoms. Mornings have been terrible. I don't even like going to bed, because I know I'm going to wake up with a sense of dread. My last dose of venlafaxine was a little over 3 months ago (I need to check the exact dates, but I believe it was sometime in July). Had I found this forum earlier, I'd have tapered my dose much more slowly, and kept a log of my symptoms. But now it is done. Should I try to reinstate my dose anyway?

 

17 hours ago, Jane318 said:

@terpsichore - It is normal to experience a "wave" after a "window."  It is distressing because we've just experienced a glimmer of hope only to have it (seemingly) disappear.  Nonetheless, it is normal and temporary.  

Same as you, I wish I had discovered earlier that I needed to taper more slowly than I did.  But can't change the past.  At least, we now know and can move forward. 

I totally relate all you said about mornings being horrible.  This seems to be related to dysregulation of cortisol - another lovely thing that goes part and parcel with withdrawal. Search the site for "cortisol spike" if you'd like to research this further.

 

I cannot tell you whether to reinstate - this must be your decision.  How much is withdrawal keeping you from being able to function at least at the minimum level you need to?  To me, it seems to be going just that, but only you can objectively assess that, perhaps with input from your boyfriend.  I chose to updose and I am glad I did.  I suspect that if you reinstated at a low dose, you would get relief pretty quickly.  If I were you, I would reinstate - I would start with your last known dose.  Wait at least 4 days and evaluate if it is helping or now.  Then either stay at that dose (if it is) until you stabilize, or make another small increase and again re-evaluate.

7 hours ago, terpsichore said:

I haven't been able to open up about my struggles with anyone other than my boyfriend. I'm afraid if I talk to my family about it, they'll tell me to go back to my hometown, which is something I don't want to do. I came to this city for better opportunities, but things have been very slow. Going back would feel like a failure. Plus I know moving back wouldn't improve my symptoms. I haven't reached out to friends, either. I now realize how depression can destroy friendships. You isolate yourself because you don't want to burden others with your problems, and you feel ashamed of your situation. You don't know how they'll react, if they're going to be supportive, or dismissive. So you never reach out, and after months or years of no contact, it feels awkward to reconnect. I feel very lonely.

Yes, depression / withdrawal makes us want to self-isolate and affects our relationships.  I identify with the shame and feelings of failure.  But I've found that I need to set aside my pride and fear of rejection and be transparent with those whom I really trust.  Not everyone needs to know.  But you owe it to those who love you to honest about what you are going through.  You deserve credit for having the courage to working to get off these drugs!  And what you are going through is withdrawal, it is not the real you.  Plus, behind the veneers we all adopt, EVERYONE has problems / issues, even when it seems otherwise.  You are not a failure.  Going back home would be temporary, not permanent, should you decide to do so.  Regardless, you need a support system right now.  You need to do whatever it takes to heal and recover so you can grow and also be a resource for others in the future.

 

Yes, this leaves us feeling very lonely.  But the loneliness is neither lethal nor permanent.  These times of solitude / loneliness can be aids to personal growth.  

[terpsichore]

I've had a couple of good days. It's as if a dark veil has been lifted from my eyes. I'm a little apprehensive, because I know the darkness can come back at any moment, but I'm focusing on enjoying the respite from the anxiety and depression. I have a few moments here and there when I feel a bit sad, but they're short lived.

[getofflex]

It sounds like you are having a window, which is wonderful!  I hope this lasts a long time for you. 

[terpsichore]

20 hours ago, getofflex said:

It sounds like you are having a window, which is wonderful!  I hope this lasts a long time for you. 

Today it seems the window has ended. I woke up hopeless and anxious. It got better as I went about my day. Now I don't feel as depressed or anxious as I was a few days ago, but I am... meh. Not sad, but not happy, either. I just feel empty and tired. I guess it's a wave, albeit not a big one. I'm going to rest and eat well today, and do my best to not dwell on any negative thoughts or memories that might arise.

Edited November 17, 2024 by terpsichore
edit: grammar

[terpsichore]

Yesterday my boyfriend had a medical emergency and ended up in hospital. He's doing OK now, but we're worried about his health. What if it happens again? He has no insurance. The public health service here isn't the best. If we were married, I could put him under my insurance, but a marriage license costs money and we're on a very tight budget. I woke up feeling terrible, completely hopeless again. I got up more than two hours ago and haven't been able to do anything productive. My mood wasn't the best to begin with, but the situation last night made everything worse.

 

Sometimes I feel like I can't go on. The only reason I don't end it all is my daughter, who's currently living with my parents. I moved here by myself so that I could build a more stable life for us first, and then she'd move in with me. I miss her terribly, but I'm glad she's not here to witness her mom going on a downward spiral. I don't want to give her the trauma of losing her mom to suicide. Also, my boyfriend is the only person he has in this country, and he'd be alone without me. So I keep going. It's not a matter of living one day after the other, it's literally trying to survive one minute after the other. You need to constantly fight the negative thoughts. It's as if I'm walking through darkness, and I know there's a light somewhere, but I have no idea how far it is, or even if I'm going in the right direction. I just keep going because it's the only thing I can do.

 

I don't know where I'm going with this post. I guess this topic has become my journal, where I document my ups and downs in my healing journey. I don't even expect anyone to respond, or give me advice. I just need to vent somewhere, and this feels more cathartic than writing in my private journal.

[Jane318]

@terpsichore - I am grieving for all you are enduring right now.  I can only encourage you to remember this is temporary, this is withdrawal, this is not the real you.  Like you, it was my son that kept me putting one foot in front of the other during the darkest days I ever experienced this past summer.  I am glad I did.  Many people find it cathartic to journal (vent) here and you will connect with others that understand what you are going through.  That in itself means so much to us all.  Cling to the certain hope that you are going in the right direction and this will get better.  Time + Patience.

[terpsichore]

@Jane318 Thank you for your words. I know this is all temporary. The only thing is, we never know how long it will last. Might be hours, days, weeks, or even months. I just wish life started being a bit kinder to my boyfriend. Other than withdrawal, my problems seem small in comparison, and I feel bad for not being able to do more for him.

[Carmie]

Dear @terpsichore, thank you for popping over to my thread to say hi. I’m so very sorry to hear about your suffering, we are all rowing in the same boat on here.

 

We all need a lot of patience, I can only taper by teeny tiny amounts, otherwise I get severe Akathisia. I’ll still be tapering for a decade or more, but I’m still doing things that are important to me, despite this. It’s not an easy journey, there are days where we will cry and there are days where we are just in survival mode, but it’s important to continue to look at things to be grateful for, to laugh, to live by our values, to get out in nature, to do something creative, to interact with friends etc etc. 

 

I hope you find some things that give you peace throughout your day🧡

[terpsichore]

Thank you for you kind words, @Carmie. Today was one of those days when it's hard to find things to be grateful for. It's as if I'm seeing life through a pair of gray-tinted glasses. As I said before, I've been reading other people's topics, and success stories. It makes me feel less alone, and if there's one thing I can say I'm grateful, is to have found this community.

[terpsichore]

I'm struggling. How low do I have to go until things start to improve? How dark and bleak will things get before I see the light? There's a void inside me, and it's taking over. I feel it physically, right in my solar plexus - it grows and grows and engulfs me. I want to scream. I can't eat, I can't work, I can't rest. It's worse than any physical pain I ever had.

[terpsichore]

Today isn't as bad as yesterday. By "not as bad" I mean I'm not in the depths of despair, but that doesn't mean I'm OK. Everything still sucks. Is this going to be my new normal? Will I ever be able to feel genuine happiness? Even good or neutral things trigger negative thoughts. I'll look at a chair, and think of the apartment I used to live when I was still in my hometown. I miss that apartment. Now there's someone else living there. I'll also think, "this chair is so cheap, I wish I could afford something better", and this also makes me sad. If I see a picture of my daughter when she was little, it makes me cry, as if I'm grieving something. I don't really understand it. My boyfriend says that these feelings aren't real. My brain got used to depression, and it keeps looking for reasons to feel sad. He tells me to ignore them, and cling to whatever positive emotion I have, even if it's brief. Basically, he's explaining that these are nothing but neuroemotions, even though he had never heard of the term. I know he's right, but it's hard to feel anything positive when you're in the middle of a big wave. It seems my baseline is "everything sucks", and the tiniest inconvenience sends me into despair. However, whenever something good happens, things suck a little less, but they still suck.

 

Physically, I'm not doing great, either. My body aches as if I have the flu, and I have no energy at all. I've even considered going back to bed, though I hate sleeping during the day. I just need some respite. I understand why people self-medicate with drugs and alcohol - substances offer some temporary relief from all the emotional pain. I'm not going that route, though. I just want something that will distract me from my negative thoughts, and the feeling of having my insides squeezed.

[Catina7]

2 hours ago, terpsichore said:

My boyfriend says that these feelings aren't real. My brain got used to depression, and it keeps looking for reasons to feel sad. He tells me to ignore them, and cling to whatever positive emotion I have, even if it's brief. Basically, he's explaining that these are nothing but neuroemotions, even though he had never heard of the term.

 

Your boyfriend has great insight...wow!  I'm so glad you have his support.  He's right in everything he is saying.

 

When we're in the eye of the storm it's hard to realize that it won't last forever.  Hang in there.  The storm WILL end.  It always does.  ♥️

[Vancouver1986]

Hey there.

 

Just wanted to say hello. I'm glad the algorithm helped you find this website for support.

 

All of your thoughts and concerns and "if only I had given informed consent" are the exact same for everyone who is new to this. Your symptoms are the exact same as all of us. Our bodies have not evolved alongside these Pharmaceuticals long enough. Clients are only followed for 12 weeks. There is no follow up for the client's body being on the Pharmaceutical(s) for 12 months, 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, etc. Animals's bodies cannot tolerate these Pharmaceuticals either, when they're forced to be test bodies. I know what it's like to have my freedom of movement stolen from me because of an outside reason.

 

If you want more reassuring/distracting (and won't make you be concerned even more), there is lots of content on YT, IG, Mad In America, BeyondMeds.com, Angie Peacock and Dan from Philosophical Fishing, Inner Compass, read peer-reviewed randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind research studies to confirm what you already know, go for a drive to the library to pick up reserved books on this subject matter (Robert Whittaker, Dr Peter Breggins, etc) maybe find a zoom support group for iatrogenic injuries/acute withdrawal/protracted withdrawal in your country/State, look into what you'd like to return to once your body is no longer temporarily disabled, etc.

 

The 'Neuro emotion/withdrawal emotions (not your real self)' topic on this forum is great: let it happen. Don't respond to it. Roll your eyes, because it's caused by dysfunction. Top-down process/bottom-up process.

[terpsichore]

7 minutes ago, Catina7 said:

Your boyfriend has great insight...wow!  I'm so glad you have his support.  He's right in everything he is saying.

 

If it weren't for him, I'd still be on antidepressants. He had bad experiences with them when he was younger, and he was put on modafinil for chronic fatigue syndrome, with terrible consequences... so he knows a thing or two about withdrawal, and the damage these medications cause. Pretty much everything he says about antidepressants has been confirmed by the information available on this forum.

[terpsichore]

Hi, @Vancouver1986. Thanks for the resource suggestions. I'm already familiar with Mad In America, but I didn't know about the others. I'm going to check them out when I can - right now it's hard to concentrate on anything. It's one of those days when even stringing a couple of sentences together is challenging.

 

I've been trying to find support groups in my area, but the truth is that there aren't a lot of people talking about antidepressant withdrawal in my country, and the few resources available are hard to find. I've even considered starting an IG account to talk about it, because it seems no one else is doing it here.

[Carmie]

On 11/21/2024 at 2:07 PM, terpsichore said:

Thank you for you kind words, @Carmie. Today was one of those days when it's hard to find things to be grateful for. It's as if I'm seeing life through a pair of gray-tinted glasses. As I said before, I've been reading other people's topics, and success stories. It makes me feel less alone, and if there's one thing I can say I'm grateful, is to have found this community.

Hi Terpsichore, 

 

Yes, this thing called withdrawals certainly puts us on a roller coaster ride. It’s up, down, up, down🎢🎢🎢 You’ll have okay days and bad days. It’s just the way it works, as you know. We continually go through windows and waves, and that can happen all in the same day too. One moment you’re feeling not too bad and then the next it hits you like a ton of bricks.
 

It’s okay to have gray days, acknowledge your feelings, don’t fight against them as you’ll only make them stronger. There’s a good ACT  video on YouTube by Russ Harris, he lives here in Australia. It’s called Radio Doom and Gloom. Check it out if you like. 
 

Sending hugs your way🤗

[terpsichore]

I had a bad day yesterday, again. I couldn't concentrate on anything, and I had no energy at all. I had a headache that lasted the entire day, and I knew better than to take medication for it - regular painkillers aren't effective for this specific kind of headache. The only thing that works are muscle relaxers, but I didn't have any, and even if I did, I wouldn't take them - they'd make me feel groggy, and I already had no energy to do anything. I didn't want to spend the whole day sleeping. I just hate sleeping during the day.

 

I talked to my boyfriend, and he encouraged me to just rest and not pay attention to any negative thoughts. Just ignore them, he said. These are his words: "It's just like having a cold, but this one affects your emotions too, which influences you to think negative things. You just ignore. Just focus on providing yourself with physical comfort, and keeping it. And ignore thoughts. It's no time to think of things when your emotions are not yours but due to withdrawal." So I did just that. I brought a pillow and a blanket to the sofa, and watched YouTube. Thankfully, I had some leftovers from the day before, and I didn't have to cook. I was craving candy, and I allowed myself to have some (I've been avoiding excess sugar, because it gives me headaches and makes me feel sluggish).

 

I'm a huge Eurovision fan, even though I'm not from Europe, and I decided to re-watch this year's first semi-final. Venlafaxine greatly affected my memory, to the point I realized I had no recollection of most of this year's songs. In a conversation with my sister a few days ago about our plans for the holidays, I told her I had no memory of last year's Christmas. I literally can't remember where we spent Christmas, or with whom. My parents are divorced, so each year it's different. Turns out that last year we went to one of my aunt's, and I have no recollection of that at all. I was on 225mg at that point.

 

I've always been smart, and my memory was pretty good. I've been diagnosed with ADHD a few years back, but I'm starting to suspect that most of my ADHD-like symptoms can be attributed to autism, and also to cognitive damage caused by venlafaxine. Or maybe I do have ADHD, but it was exacerbated by venlafaxine. Regardless, venlafaxine played a part in my cognitive decline, and I wonder if I can regain some cognitive capacity. I'm in my forties, and it really worries me. I'm afraid I won't be able to work the way I used to. I used to be creative, and over the years, it seems that I've lost that, too. If I were younger, I guess it would be easier to bounce back.

 

I'd been trying to remember the name of the first doctor who prescribed me antidepressants. He was my mom's doctor, and since she had seen improvements in her life after staring seeing him and being prescribed antidepressants, she figured I could benefit from them. However, when I think of it, I wasn't really depressed or anxious. I started seeing that doctor when I was about 14, but he didn't start giving me antidepressants until I was 17. I believe I was prescribed fluoxetine at first, but he would switch medications for no reason. I'm not sure what other meds he gave me, but I remember he gave me something that made me fall asleep during class, and at one point, he prescribed me something that made me unable to eat - I'd feel so hungry, but the very thought of food made me nauseous. I'm not even sure how long I kept seeing this doctor. But what were my issues at that point in my life? Why did he think I needed antidepressants in the first place?

 

I've come to realize that my mom is a hypochondriac. Anything can be a symptom of a disease, and if it's a symptom, there's a medication for it. My mom has very low self esteem, and at the time, her marriage to my dad wasn't going well. On top of that, she had a hysterectomy at age 34, which can mess up your hormones and cause all sorts of issues. So he GO referred her to this doctor, who wasn't even a psychiatrist to begin with, who gave her antidepressants and clonazepam (she's always had trouble sleeping). She saw a lot of improvement at first, and she still believes she needs these medications. She's no longer seeing that doctor, but she's never stopped taking antidepressants, and at some point she was put on quetiapine (Seroquel). What she really needed at the time was first, to divorce my dad (I love him, but I know he wasn't a good husband), and second, a good therapist to work through her issues and childhood trauma. Antidepressants actually prevented her from growing and improving her mental health. She used to be a smart woman, and now she has trouble remembering and understanding things, and still has issues. She even attempted suicide multiple times, and was nearly successful the last time. When I think of it, she was never suicidal before she started taking meds. Makes you think, doesn't it?

 

Anyway, she took me to this doctor because she thought it would benefit me. I had low self esteem, had trouble socializing, and had emotional disregulation. I felt different from my peers. I had different interests, I had trouble understanding social cues, I was more immature and more naive than most people my age. It led to some bullying and isolation, which of course, affected my self esteem. I had a few friends at school, but we were kind of outcasts. When I started college, I met people with similar interests, of different backgrounds, and it was a bit easier to feel like I was part of a group. But my middle and high school years were really hard.

 

I've always had trouble with discipline, too, which in turn made me feel like a failure. I couldn't understand why people thought I was smart, and yet I was never able to hand in school assignments on time. I'd feel paralyzed in front of a computer screen, trying to find the words to start an essay. It wasn't a problem in middle and high school, because I went to a sh*tty school and the standards were very low, but in college I had to face the fact that I lacked discipline, which in turn led me to believe I was a complete failure. It took me six years to finish a 4-year degree. It didn't do any favors to my already low self esteem.

 

Finally, I had some trouble regulating my emotions. I now understand that certain noises, smells, crowded places trigger me, and I end up lashing out and having some meltdowns. It doesn't take a genius to realize I might actually be autistic, and that my "depression" and "anxiety" are actually reflections of that. I asked my doctor if it's possible to not be fully autistic, but have autistic traits, and she said that yes, it's possible. Of course, back in the late 90s no doctor would have diagnosed me with either ADHD and/or autism. Our understanding of these disorders has grown immensely in the last few decades, and I don't really blame the doctors for not realizing that at the time. But I shouldn't have been put on medications. I wasn't suicidal, I wasn't hurting myself. There was no real reason to be prescribed any psychiatric medications. A good therapist would have helped me. At some points, I was also receiving counseling while on medication, and though it did help me, I don't feel any of the therapists I've seen over the years really understood what the root of my issues were.

 

Anyway, I was able to remember that first doctor's name. I thought he had retired, but turns out he's still practicing. Same building. His three kids are all doctors and practice in the same clinic. I checked what his specialization was - he's just a GP. Most psychiatrists don't understand how the medications they prescribe really work - at some point, I was taking both venlafaxine and sertraline at the same time, which I came to find out later is a big no-no (prescribed by a psychiatrist!). So as someone who isn't even a specialist in the area, he knows even less. I wonder how may more lives he has destroyed, and if he's aware of that.

 

I know I'm rambling, but I need to get this off my chest. Right now, I'm angry. I'm aware that being angry doesn't change anything, but compared to the depression I was feeling yesterday, I consider that an improvement.

[Catina7]

I'm sorry you had a bad day yesterday, but I'm glad you're a bit better today (hug).

 

Both you and your boyfriend possess more insight into your (and your mom's) issues than any doctors you've seen.  You're right, you shouldn't have been put on antidepressants in the first place.  Most of us on this site are in the same situation.  We look back and realize all the mistakes that doctors made and how non-drug treatment would have been much better for us.  You're not alone.  But what's done is done and at least you have recognized where it went wrong and are trying to correct it.  

 

There is no doubt these drugs can cause cognitive problems, along with a myriad of other issues.  Our brains are amazing though, and I strongly believe in neuroplasticity.  Here's a great article that talks about it:  https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/neuroplasticity

 

27 minutes ago, terpsichore said:

Most psychiatrists don't understand how the medications they prescribe really work - at some point, I was taking both venlafaxine and sertraline at the same time, which I came to find out later is a big no-no (prescribed by a psychiatrist!). So as someone who isn't even a specialist in the area, he knows even less. I wonder how may more lives he has destroyed, and if he's aware of that.

 

Sad but very true!  If they understood these drugs there would be no need of this site.  Hopefully one day things will change.  Things are moving in the right direction albeit at a snail's pace.

 

Continue to show yourself love, compassion, and kindness.  You're going to heal and recover although it may take some time.  Sending lots of healing vibes your way!  

[terpsichore]

5 hours ago, Catina7 said:

There is no doubt these drugs can cause cognitive problems, along with a myriad of other issues.  Our brains are amazing though, and I strongly believe in neuroplasticity.  Here's a great article that talks about it:  https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/neuroplasticity

 

My only question about it is if my brain will be able to recover completely. After all, there's some cognitive decline that happens with age. That, combined with the cognitive loss from the use of antidepressants, makes me wonder if I'm ever going to recover my cognition to its full capacity. I read more slowly, and I have to read things at least twice to fully grasp them. I have trouble remembering words. I feel like my vocabulary has decreased. How much of this is due to aging, and how much can I blame on venlafaxine? At least I feel that my brain is able to make memories again, so I guess my brain is already recovering. @Catina7 I see in your signature that you are on venlafaxine, too. Were your memory and cognition affected? Have you noticed any improvements since you tapered your dose?

 

6 hours ago, Catina7 said:

Sad but very true!  If they understood these drugs there would be no need of this site.  Hopefully one day things will change.  Things are moving in the right direction albeit at a snail's pace.

 

I think so many doctors are misinformed. I started grinding my teeth when I was put on venlafaxine, and I checked the side effects on the package insert, and teeth grinding was listed there. I mentioned that to my doctor at the time, and she said that it wasn't a side effect. But it's literally on the package insert! How come she doesn't know that? Of course, these drugs have too many side effects, but teeth grinding is a common side effect of many antidepressants. As a psychiatrist, she should know that neurotransmitters affect movement regulation, and therefore might cause issues such as teeth grinding. This, and many more instances when I realized doctors (not only psychiatrists) were giving me outdated or wrong information, made me extremely distrustful of the profession.

 

6 hours ago, Catina7 said:

Continue to show yourself love, compassion, and kindness.  You're going to heal and recover although it may take some time.  Sending lots of healing vibes your way!

 

Thank you! 🥰

[Catina7]

31 minutes ago, terpsichore said:

At least I feel that my brain is able to make memories again, so I guess my brain is already recovering

 

See,  you're improving already!  I wouldn't worry too much about the future and just do what you can now to improve your cognition.  There are tons of brain training exercises online and in apps that can help with this.  

 

33 minutes ago, terpsichore said:

Were your memory and cognition affected? Have you noticed any improvements since you tapered your dose?

 

I can't say that I've dealt with this being on it.  My issues with Venlafaxine have come from missing a dose or tapering.  

 

35 minutes ago, terpsichore said:

I think so many doctors are misinformed. I started grinding my teeth when I was put on venlafaxine, and I checked the side effects on the package insert, and teeth grinding was listed there. I mentioned that to my doctor at the time, and she said that it wasn't a side effect. But it's literally on the package insert! How come she doesn't know that? Of course, these drugs have too many side effects, but teeth grinding is a common side effect of many antidepressants. As a psychiatrist, she should know that neurotransmitters affect movement regulation, and therefore might cause issues such as teeth grinding. This, and many more instances when I realized doctors (not only psychiatrists) were giving me outdated or wrong information, made me extremely distrustful of the profession.

 

They are misinformed from the bad training they receive.  A lot of them are influenced by Big Pharma and the propaganda they spew to market their drugs.  I trust this site and the people on it FAR MORE than I do any conventional medical professional.  There are a few doctors and psychiatrists that are good and trustworthy, but they are the exception not the rule.  It's a hard pill to swallow (pun not intended lol) when you realize that putting blind faith in doctors can have negative consequences.  They're the ones that have the degree on the wall and wear the little white coat so they know better than we do, right?  WRONG!  I don't mean to sound cynical, but I'm just being realistic.  

 

I know you're angry - we all are - but @LostInCanada always says to not let the anger get the best of you.  She says to use that energy for healing and getting well.  We should all focus on those things the best we can.  Hugs 4 U!  

[terpsichore]

I've had a few good days. Enjoying the window for as long as it lasts. I wake up feeling normal, and go about my day. There are some opportunities possibly coming my and my boyfriend's way, that might bring some much needed extra money. It's not guaranteed, but it gives me a glimmer of hope, taking a huge weight off my shoulders. 

[Catina7]

Glad to hear of your improvements.  💜

[terpsichore]

Today I woke up feeling anxious. I'm waiting for news regarding the opportunities I mentioned in my last post. I know I need to be patient, though.

 

This wave isn't as bad as the previous ones. It's accompanied by flu-like symptoms, headache, and nausea. I don't have a lot of energy, but I did the dishes, cleaned the stove, and some of the kitchen cupboards. I guess I'll have to focus on my physical comfort and try to distract myself from negative thoughts.

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, terpsichore said:

Today I woke up feeling anxious. I'm waiting for news regarding the opportunities I mentioned in my last post. I know I need to be patient, though.

 

Stress always exacerbates things.  I hope you hear something soon!  

 

1 hour ago, terpsichore said:

This wave isn't as bad as the previous ones. It's accompanied by flu-like symptoms, headache, and nausea. I don't have a lot of energy, but I did the dishes, cleaned the stove, and some of the kitchen cupboards. I guess I'll have to focus on my physical comfort and try to distract myself from negative thoughts.

 

I'm glad you're able to distract yourself with household chores even though you're not feeling well.  I find that distracting myself and trying to live as "normal" a life as possible despite my symptoms really helps.  Your negative thoughts are like the static when you have a bad radio connection.  Change the Channel to something more positive!  🥰

[Vancouver1986]

On 11/22/2024 at 9:18 AM, terpsichore said:

I've been trying to find support groups in my area, but the truth is that there aren't a lot of people talking about antidepressant withdrawal in my country, and the few resources available are hard to find. I've even considered starting an IG account to talk about it, because it seems no one else is doing it here.

You can definitely start something if you're physically able to. Tragic. But alas. Camaraderie is the the top thing that'll get us through this.

 

Try specific google searches with specific phrases. Your local/federal Universities/Health Authorities/drug and alcohol rehab/may have something. Or email and try to get a support group going. I can guarantee you that lots of people are stuck on these Pharamceuticals with ar educed quality of life, because a linear taper/Cold-Turkey doesn't work. I'm sure that South America doesn't have the same Pharmaceutical culture as Canada/USA, so less people would be stuck on this garbage, but still.

 

Quote

I wonder how may more lives he has destroyed, and if he's aware of that.

 

I know I'm rambling, but I need to get this off my chest. Right now, I'm angry. I'm aware that being angry doesn't change anything, but compared to the depression I was feeling yesterday, I consider that an improvement.

 

I guarantee you that my former Psychiatrist has 100% caused a lot of harm to a lot of people out there and is still alive completely unaware of that. I'm pretty sure I met someone at 1 of the various in-patient facility stays who had my Psychiatrist as well. "I can't help you anymore" is what she told me her Psychiatrist said to her, a 20 year old and not in my late 30's like me. (She came in there completely drugged up on Psychotropic Pharmaceuticals, and unwell. I never contacted her to see how she was doing months after leaving the facility.) My Psychiatrist told me that, too, but he never helped me to begin with. He's made my body so unbelievably sick, and I'm still dealing with the fallout of his ignorance of these Pharmaceuticals and "diagnoses". I don't think it's malice intent, but he doesn't have time to keep up to date on research. And that can kill you, as we can all see here.

 

Keep ranting. It's incredibly important for lots of people to use this website and document. Drug companies may see this. Or it may pick up in mass media, and we can prevent Gen Z and younger from going through this dangerous unnecessary nonsense.

 

Although I don't have social anxiety or autism, I can relate to everything else that you ranted about. Especially having a mom with trauma that she never got help for & most-certainly wasn't "medicated" for. She recently almost killed herself with her health negligence/avoidance, because she refuses to take any responsibility for herself. It's not surprising to me. She was a bellend to me because of her childhood trauma/Catholicism. I'm VERY reatful that I had at least 1 sane parent, although they passed away too soon from Cancer. A significant amount of people have 2 bad parents. I wouldn't have made it this far if she was a single mom. He was such a normal sane person, and so am I. I would've been even worse-off without him. I would be morbidly obese, sexless, romance-less, avoidant, probably stuck in Catholicism (although I remember questionning it as early as grade 1 but the indoctrination was pretty strong), etc. I remember questionning these drugs when I started seeing ads on TV. I only started in 2012 because I didn't receive proper trauma therapy for my mom's dangerous nonsense. I questionned it in 2012 as well, but we're all taught to automatically assume medical professionals fully know these Pharmaceuticals. That assumption can kill you, as we can all see on SurvivingAntiDepressants, YT, IG, etc.

 

Quote

 

 

[terpsichore]

2 hours ago, Vancouver1986 said:

Try specific google searches with specific phrases. Your local/federal Universities/Health Authorities/drug and alcohol rehab/may have something. Or email and try to get a support group going. I can guarantee you that lots of people are stuck on these Pharamceuticals with ar educed quality of life, because a linear taper/Cold-Turkey doesn't work. I'm sure that South America doesn't have the same Pharmaceutical culture as Canada/USA, so less people would be stuck on this garbage, but still.

 

Yes, there are fewer people on antidepressants here, compared to the US, Canada, and most of Europe. According to the most recent data I could find, about 10% of the Brazilian population has been diagnosed with depression (in the US, it's 14%). This doesn't necessarily mean that 10% of Brazilians are on medication, but I believe that the vast majority of those diagnosed with depression were ate least prescribed antidepressants, even if they decided against taking them - doctors here tend to overprescribe, and it's pretty easy to get these drugs - all it takes is a 15-minute appointment with a doctor who barely looks at you. I've known many doctors who are happy to give you whatever you want - antidepressants, benzos, sleeping pills - if you can pay, you can pretty much ask for anything and they'll write you a prescription.

 

3 hours ago, Vancouver1986 said:

I don't think it's malice intent, but he doesn't have time to keep up to date on research.

 

But they should. As a teacher, I'm supposed to keep up to date on current educational trends and research, so why can't a doctor do the same? The doctor who prescribed me venlafaxine would go to international medical conferences at least twice a year - well, allegedly, she might be going on vacation and lying about that, who knows. Or perhaps she attends conferences promoted by pharmaceutical companies.

 

3 hours ago, Vancouver1986 said:

but we're all taught to automatically assume medical professionals fully know these Pharmaceuticals

 

Exactly. I was taught to trust doctors and believed they knew what they were doing, after all, they study long years to become doctors. But most don't really question the status quo.

[Jane318]

Greetings @terpsichore - How are you doing today?