justicewillcome: severe WD from too-fast discontinuation of lexapro, excessive updose

[justicewillcome]

Hello everyone, what a time,

I started psychiatric drugs 4 years ago and began a slow taper (became too quick towards the end, hence the situation I am in now) almost 2 years ago. The last drug I was tapering when I started to notice a lot of withdrawal issues was lexapro, I was at 2.5mg when I noticed a lot of anxiety again. My psychiatrist told me to reinstate to the last dose I was on (at this point I was taking 2.5 for 1-2 months) which was 5mg, I did that and felt horrifically worse, went on for 3 weeks until I went back down to 2.5mg lexapro. I have since been back on 2.5mg for 5 weeks now, and am slowly improving, but still suffering immensely with severe withdrawal symptoms (DP/DR, loss of thoughts, hypomania, loss of control of mind/emotions, nothing makes sense, can't read/focus, pressure headaches, brain fog, insomnia, depression, SI, etc.). I am a 23 year old female and I had so many goals and a richness for life and I knew something was wrong with what the meds were doing to me and my connection to my emotions (and even causing relapse of mental symptoms) hence why I wanted to get off, but now I am so incredibly heartbroken from what I am going through and need some sort of relief. I read through these forums that reinstating at very low doses can be beneficial, I am wondering if that would be a good option for me at this point? my goal is not to fix everything but to just feel normal and like I can function again and manage whatever other symptoms are there(manageable to me is anxiety, depression, some cognitive defects, physical symptoms; unmanageable is DP/DR and feeling so weird in my mental space/dialogue, not feeling like a regular human with regular thoughts/mental processing of information). I tried reinstating but maybe reinstating by 0.25mg can actually improve things? What do you guys think? Also, my new APN suggested lamictal for my symptoms (like dissociation) and I read that some people have tried a very low dose of it (like 0.5mg) for relief. Should I reinstate and add lamictal (at very very low doses) at the same time to find relief of unamanageable symptoms, should I only do one at a time, If I should do it, how long should I give it to see a benefit/what symptoms should I look out for for each drug change? What do you all advise/where can I go to look up reliable information? Because all psychiatrists I have met have no idea about this or they gaslight me/patients on this experience, my current APN seems a little more understanding but I doubt she knows about microdosing and the severity of withdrawal and how to manage it. I just re-examined my genesight report and it's worth noting that every SSRI seems to have a moderate gene interaction with me, and I have reduced folic acid intake because of the MTHFR gene and I had no idea, let me know how that information can help too. I would immensely appreciate a response, thank you. This has been a horrid experience, I just want to be me and see my family and friends again, and live my life normally. 

[justicewillcome]

Hi everyone,

I am a 23f looking for recommendations to ease withdrawal symptoms. I was taking seroquel, gabapentin, and lexapro(over 4 years now) and decided to taper in 01/2023. I found online about slow tapering (10% each month) and that's what I did with the seroquel first, felt better and better as taper went on. But I got too impatient and tapered too quickly with the last two meds, the next was gabapentin (2700mg, down by 300mg every 1-2 weeks). I then started my lexapro taper, (10mg, down by 2.5mg every 2 weeks), I noticed gradually I was feeling worse and worse, but was still functioning. I stopped at 2.5mg for a couple of months (since mid July, I think) and noticed problems arise in September. Doctor told me to reinstate and go back up to 5mg and when I did that I felt so much worse, I went back down to 2.5mg after 3 weeks, I did not know about kindling at that time. I am wondering if right now, about 3-4 months out since my initial reduction to 2.5mg, it would be helpful for my symptoms to reinstate by 0.05-0.1mg? If so, how should I go about it, and what should I expect with my specific situation (I have already read the forum on reinstatement)? Would it be helpful to introduce a small dose of lamictal (0.5mg-1mg)? I just need relief from the severity of the symptoms, and am hoping that a small reinstatement would be enough, any success stories on this would help as well. I may also start seeing Dr. Josef at the TaperClinic, I don't know how you guys feel about him, feel free to let me know. Thanks.

[Jane318]

Greetings @justicewillcome, and welcome to SA!  We are a community of volunteers providing peer support in the tapering of psychiatric medications and their associated withdrawal syndromes. 

 

Thank you for completing your signature - detailed, succinct - perfect, thank you!

 

First, know that you will heal and you will get your life back!    I know you feel awful right now, but this is temporary withdrawal, not you.  You are fortunate that you are young have have been on antidepressants for a relatively brief period of time, compared to decades for myself and many others.  Also, though you taper was too fast, as you now realize, at least the lexapro taper wasn't uber-fast nor did you do any cold-turkey stops, which are so hard on the central nervous system.  So be encouraged by the positives!

 

On 11/17/2024 at 12:38 PM, justicewillcome said:

The last drug I was tapering when I started to notice a lot of withdrawal issues was lexapro, I was at 2.5mg when I noticed a lot of anxiety again. My psychiatrist told me to reinstate to the last dose I was on (at this point I was taking 2.5 for 1-2 months) which was 5mg, I did that and felt horrifically worse, went on for 3 weeks until I went back down to 2.5mg lexapro. I have since been back on 2.5mg for 5 weeks now, and am slowly improving, but still suffering immensely with severe withdrawal symptoms

It is not surprising that withdrawal symptoms got more severe once you got down to 2.5 mg.  It is at the low doses that the brain is changing the fastest, and the more slowly we need to go.  Also, it is possible/likely that withdrawal symptoms had been building up in the background due to your overall too-fast taper, even though you were following the hyperbolic method.  I had similar experience.  

 

And yes, psychiatrists do not recognize withdrawal - they tell us that we are experiencing relapse and thus must remain on these drugs for the rest of our lives.  sigh...

 

It was / is appropriate for you to updose, but going from 2.5 mg to 5 mg was more than we would recommend and it seems to have caused a kindling reaction.  SA recommends a very small dose change - no more than 10% of most recent dose. 

9 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

it would be helpful for my symptoms to reinstate by 0.05-0.1mg? If so, how should I go about it, and what should I expect with my specific situation (I have already read the forum on reinstatement)?

Yes, if I were you, I would updose by no more than .25 mg - maybe try 0.1 mg.  Wait 4-7 days and if symptoms improve, hold here until you stabilize.  If no change, try another 0.1 mg and repeat.  You want the lowest dose that will help symptoms, but not so high as to cause kindling.  In my case, I updosed to the previous dose - it was a VERY small increase - and saw the effect immediately.   I have been holding for several months now, and am improving.  

 

Reinstatement/updose predictably works up to three months after last dose / dose change.  But can also be effective further out.  You will be able to tell.

 

9 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

Would it be helpful to introduce a small dose of lamictal (0.5mg-1mg)?

SA recommends adding another drug to deal with symptoms.  It just causes additional changes to CNS and becomes one more drug to have to get off of.

 

9 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

just need relief from the severity of the symptoms, and am hoping that a small reinstatement would be enough, any success stories on this would help as well

Updosing should bring you some relief, but be aware that it will take some time for you to stabilize - perhaps months.  But you will heal and get your life back.

 

Once you stabilize, you can begin to taper again.  Here at SA, we recommend the hyperbolic taper method, which you can read about here:  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Once you decide to taper and given that you are at a pretty low dose right now, you might consider choosing to taper even more slowly, with longer holds or smaller cuts:

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first

 Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ    (note links on this page for specifics related to tapering off Lexapro)

 

 

Suggest you search the site for reinstatement success stories (there are many), MTHFR gene, etc.  

 

I have no knowledge of Dr. Josef of the TaperClinic, will let others pipe in if they do.  Our founder, AltoStrata is affiliated with Outro (Dr. Mark Horowitz and others), but I don't know if they are currently licensed in New Jersey yet.

 

Here are some forums you may want to read if you have not already:

 

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

How long does it take to stabilize after reinstating or updosing?

Hypersensitivity and kindling

 

As you hold and later, when you resume tapering, it is very normal to have periods where you feel better, and periods where you feel terrible.  This is what we call the windows and waves pattern of stabilization.  This is actually a good sign of healing!  Read more about windows and waves here:   The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

It’s important to keep tabs on your symptoms and adjust your taper amount and schedule as needed.  I now track my symptoms every day, rating them on a scale of 1-10 for severity.  This will help you identify your windows and waves and reveal your progress, which is encouragement we need!  You can use the following list of typical withdrawal symptoms as a template for a journal, if you wish: Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

In terms of coping with symptoms, we have many, many threads on this subject here at SA-check out the links on the home page.   It is extremely important that you start working on some non-drug coping mechanisms early in your journey, in order to maximize your chances of getting off of these drugs and staying off of them for good!  If you work on finding some good techniques early in your journey, you will be well-prepared to use them when things get tough, at lower doses. 

 

There are a few things you can do to help your nervous system heal.  Most are intuitive.  Eat a balanced, whole foods diet, stay well hydrated, engage in gentle exercise, and get adequate rest/sleep.  Avoid all neurologically active substances, like caffeine, alcohol, nicotine and recreational drugs- these are like pouring gasoline on a fire for your symptoms.  Avoid adding any further psychiatric medications to deal with your withdrawal from psych meds- the effects of these meds on a destabilized nervous system is unpredictable, and taking something else could make you worse.

 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium (glycinate is a good form) and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

So if you decide to try a supplement, even those we recommend here, Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.  If you tolerate it well, you can increase the dosage slowly over time.  

 

This is your introduction topic.  Each member gets one intro topic- please post updates and questions here, in this thread.

 

Do explore the rest of the forum – there is a lot of great information here.  Be sure to read “About SurvivingAntidepressants.org,” which has good information about how to use / search the site: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/54-about-survivingantidepressantsorg  

 

Also, feel free to read and comment on the intro threads of other members.  This is how you build a community of people who understand what you are dealing with.   It is so helpful to connect with others who are experiencing the same things.

 

The important thing is to trust your body, that it knows how to heal and never give up Trust Your Body: Learning to Heal

 

Please keep us posted on what you decide to do and be sure to ask any remaining questions you may have after reading the above information.

 

I look forward to following your journey, and helping out in any way I can.  Best wishes.

 

 

 

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318 Thank you for your encouragement and reply. I reinstated two nights ago from 2.5mg lexparo to 2.55mg, and then last night to 2.6mg. I noticed improvement today, yet I don't know if that is from the natural course of healing or if the small reinstatement helped. I am wondering what you think about if this is a good sign for me to continue with reinstatement? If so, would it be okay for me to try 2.7mg tonight?

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318 Also, I am wondering if me taking vitamin D 2000IU (I started taking it this past August, while I was on 2.5mg, not dysfunctional from withdrawal yet but it was catching up to me at this time without me even realizing) is possibly making symptoms worse, and if stopping would also worsen symptoms or make them better? Or if I should go down to a smaller dose of vitamin D? Is there a post that talks about this?

 

Also, I want to take a moment to appreciate you, Jane. Thank you so much for replying to me and easing some anxiety. I also read your introduction and then some recent replies to see if you are improved, and it seems like you are, and that makes me so happy for you. I am proud of you for getting through the worst of your withdrawal and choosing to be a beacon of light on this website for others. I am curious, how long was the absolute worst period of your withdrawal, like when did you feel like "okay, I feel close enough to normal?" Because for me, I can deal with depression, anxiety, some panic, physical symptoms, basically the symptoms that "make more sense", it is the detachment, feeling like my inner dialogue is gone, how I process stimuli and weird, concepts don't make sense, loss of personality/sense of self, etc. that I can barely deal with, and am wondering when that tends to go away and am hoping that it goes away much quicker than maybe other symptoms.

[Jane318]

3 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

@Jane318 Thank you for your encouragement and reply. I reinstated two nights ago from 2.5mg lexparo to 2.55mg, and then last night to 2.6mg. I noticed improvement today, yet I don't know if that is from the natural course of healing or if the small reinstatement helped. I am wondering what you think about if this is a good sign for me to continue with reinstatement? If so, would it be okay for me to try 2.7mg tonight?

@justicewillcome - This is a good sign!  I would wait a week before increasing again - It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  By then you will better know if 2.6 mg is working for you.  If it is, I would stay there until you stabilize.  If not, then yes, try 2.7 mg and wait a week.  I would be reluctant to go higher than 2.7 due to kindling risk.  I am really optimistic you will feel better soon!  Please keep us posted.

[Jane318]

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

Also, I am wondering if me taking vitamin D 2000IU (I started taking it this past August, while I was on 2.5mg, not dysfunctional from withdrawal yet but it was catching up to me at this time without me even realizing) is possibly making symptoms worse, and if stopping would also worsen symptoms or make them better? Or if I should go down to a smaller dose of vitamin D? Is there a post that talks about this?

Some members do take Vitamin D and after a quick search of the site, I didn't find anything jumping out that warned against taking it or stopping it.  That said, SA recommends only magnesium and fish oil during withdrawal / tapering because some supplements that would otherwise be well tolerated are problematic during this time.    

 

I personally choose to not take Vitamin D supplement even though my doctor recommends it.  It is actually a hormone, not a vitamin per se and there is research that shows that excess Vitamin D can actually disrupt other hormones / minerals / and systems.  So I choose to get it from food (such as salmon and other cold water fish), high quality cod liver oil (yep!), and sunshine when I can.  Perhaps others will pipe in with their experience.

 

If you decide to stop or reduce your dose, you should monitor your symptoms - you could always add back in if you felt it was making things worse.  I dropped several supplements after learning more and did not notice any negative effects.  

 

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

Also, I want to take a moment to appreciate you, Jane. Thank you so much for replying to me and easing some anxiety. I also read your introduction and then some recent replies to see if you are improved, and it seems like you are, and that makes me so happy for you. I am proud of you for getting through the worst of your withdrawal and choosing to be a beacon of light on this website for others. I am curious, how long was the absolute worst period of your withdrawal, like when did you feel like "okay, I feel close enough to normal?" Because for me, I can deal with depression, anxiety, some panic, physical symptoms, basically the symptoms that "make more sense", it is the detachment, feeling like my inner dialogue is gone, how I process stimuli and weird, concepts don't make sense, loss of personality/sense of self, etc. that I can barely deal with, and am wondering when that tends to go away and am hoping that it goes away much quicker than maybe other symptoms.

I so appreciate your kind words, more than you know - thank you!  It is very gratifying to know I have helped you feel less anxiety / fear.  

 

Thank you also for taking the time to read my Intro - It's time for another monthly update, but yes, thank God, I am getting better, SOOO much better than last summer.  I do track my symptoms daily and true to form, it looks like that "windows and waves" pattern SA talks about.  

 

The worse part was late June / early July.  It was indescribable.   The signs I was tapering too fast had been there for months, I just wasn't paying attention.  Providentially, I discovered the site in July and received the guidance to updose, which I did.  Only a little bit but was enough for me to notice an improvement.  Because it was only slight updose, it's taken several months - four now - to stabilize somewhat.  The times I feel almost normal are longer in duration and more frequent now.  Still, I don't feel quite ready to resume tapering, but think I will be once the holidays are behind us.

 

I understand how unsettling are the symptoms you describe - the detachment, etc.  I wish I could give you a healing timeline, but there isn't one.  Everyone is different.  I can tell you that it will likely be months, but you will stabilize / heal.  Symptoms often change over time - some people think this is due to different parts of the brain healing at different time.   You might like to read:  What is happening in your brain?

 

The important thing is to trust your body, that it knows how to heal and never give up Trust Your Body: Learning to Heal.

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318 So I have been staying at the updose from 2.5mg to 2.6mg for at least 3 days now. I notice right after I take the dose my body relaxes a lot, but there are still symptoms that happen and I can't tell if it is because of the updose or because of the natural course of healing. I get scared that the updose might slightly make things worse with/without me noticing. Is that possible given my information? Like, they say updosing slightly can slightly improve symptoms, but can it slightly worsen them and prolong healing? Or would the worsening be more immediately noticeable and prominent? I don't mean to only quote you, not sure how other people can join in, but I would appreciate other feedback as well! 

[Jane318]

On 11/18/2024 at 7:48 AM, justicewillcome said:

I may also start seeing Dr. Josef at the TaperClinic, I don't know how you guys feel about him, feel free to let me know.

@justicewillcome - I did some digging.  Dr. Josef is mentioned in our "Recommended doctors..." forum: 

 

Also, you may be interested in this interview he did with Adele Framer, founder of SA:

 

 

[Jane318]

1 hour ago, justicewillcome said:

@Jane318 So I have been staying at the updose from 2.5mg to 2.6mg for at least 3 days now. I notice right after I take the dose my body relaxes a lot, but there are still symptoms that happen and I can't tell if it is because of the updose or because of the natural course of healing. I get scared that the updose might slightly make things worse with/without me noticing. Is that possible given my information? Like, they say updosing slightly can slightly improve symptoms, but can it slightly worsen them and prolong healing? Or would the worsening be more immediately noticeable and prominent? I don't mean to only quote you, not sure how other people can join in, but I would appreciate other feedback as well! 

If 2.6 mg were high enough to cause kindling, you would know it by now, probably before now.  Since your symptoms are not worsening nor are you apparently experiencing new symptoms associated with kindling, I would stay at 2.6 until you stabilize, if I were you.  It will take some time, likely months for you to stabilize, but you will see slow improvement.

 

My understanding is that updosing to alleviate severe withdrawal aids healing, possibly shortening the overall timeline, by sparing your CNS prolonged stress of severe withdrawal, thus allowing your brain / body to work towards homeostatis in a more controlled manner.  Analogy is coming down with a bacterial infection.  I had bacterial pneumonia a couple times, and I doubt I would have perished without antibiotics, but it would have taken me a lot longer to recover.

 

Others will pitch in as they are able, no problem at all to quote me, though.  

 

Hope this helps - you're doing great!

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318 I have been experimenting with diet a little, like low histamine and only eating whole foods. I noticed last night I actually felt close to normal, then I cooked a new recipe that required grilling with olive oil and took the 2.6mg lexapro, a few hours after the dose I felt worse, I feel a little better now, but I guess I am confused on how to tell what is causing what, was it the grilling of the chicken? was it the lexapro updose? is it just the signs of healing? I just don't want to prolong this process and shorten it as much as I possible can. I have heard of fasting, Is there a forum that goes more in depth into that? Thanks.

[justicewillcome]

Hello all,

just to quickly summarize my history; smoked weed for a few months and experienced auditory hallucinations and new anxiety symptoms, drank alcohol for a few months and stopped which triggered anxiety/symptoms I never experienced before, got put on lexapro, tried seroquel and gabapentin, tapered seroquel and gabapentin, then stopped mid taper of lexapro due to withdrawals. So I am going to explain in more detail about the time frame when I first got to 2.5mg lexapro; I made the drop from 5mg to 2.5mg in June/July, I noticed increasing anxiety and cognitive defects, but I ignored it since I was able to function. When I started school in september things came to a head and i started having panic attacks more often. I can't remember if I was functional still or not, but I was very anxious. My doctor told me to reinstate to 5mg, I did, and a kindling reaction happened where symptoms got so much worse and new ones showed up. Because the doctor made me believe the anxiety would go away (it was more than anxiety) I stayed at 5mg for 3 weeks before my intuition told me to go back down to 2.5mg. I started to feel better, but the symptoms have still been very very difficult. It has since been 6 weeks since going back down to 2.5mg. I reinstated to 2.6mg a few days ago. I noticed after i initially took the 2.6mg dose, my body relaxed a good amount. I can't tell, however, if I am more sensitive to light or it has increased other symptoms and I am confused on whether the slight updose is causing a bad reaction but just 'minor' or the bad reaction will build over time. Is there a way to identify this? Is it just the course of healing and those symptoms would happen anyway? is the relaxation and overall improvement in symptoms each day a good sign of reinstatement, and would it still be a chance that reinstatement can alleviate WD symptoms (at least a good amount) up to a certain dose (not 5mg, but lower), what amount would that likely be, what have stories from others shown to be successful in this situation? I just wonder, if I hadn't gone up to 5mg at that time, but say 3mg, would my symptoms have gotten better? or would my WD symptoms improve a good amount if I keep going up slightly by 0.1 increments, and even if it got better, how much better could it get and by what time frame? I would really appreciate any input. Thanks.

[Jane318]

7 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

@Jane318 I have been experimenting with diet a little, like low histamine and only eating whole foods. I noticed last night I actually felt close to normal, then I cooked a new recipe that required grilling with olive oil and took the 2.6mg lexapro, a few hours after the dose I felt worse, I feel a little better now, but I guess I am confused on how to tell what is causing what, was it the grilling of the chicken? was it the lexapro updose? is it just the signs of healing? I just don't want to prolong this process and shorten it as much as I possible can. I have heard of fasting, Is there a forum that goes more in depth into that? Thanks.

In general, are your symptoms worse at any particular times of day? A symptom pattern that occurs regularly over several days could mean the symptoms are from withdrawal, other adverse effects of drugs, or something else you do on a daily schedule.  To help us evaluate this, suggest you keep a log every single day over several days to see what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.  And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, might look something like below.  Copy each day's diary here and we can try to help you identify patterns.

EXAMPLE

DATE:____________

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

I searched the site for fasting - only result I found was in a forum related to detox strategies.  You may search the site yourself.  You can use the site's search bar, but the best way to search this site for specific information is to use your favorite search engine. Type in survivingantidepressants.org then the symptom, treatment, supplement or information you wish to search for.

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318 so do I post symptom logs somewhere in the site, and can I post many symptom logs over the past few days/ongoing?

[Jane318]

39 minutes ago, justicewillcome said:

@Jane318 so do I post symptom logs somewhere in the site, and can I post many symptom logs over the past few days/ongoing?

I suggest you post your log right here - in the reply box.  Maybe one for each day.    Start right away and do it for the next several days to see if we can spot any patterns.  Make sense?

[Jane318]

3 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

Hello all,

just to quickly summarize my history; smoked weed for a few months and experienced auditory hallucinations and new anxiety symptoms, drank alcohol for a few months and stopped which triggered anxiety/symptoms I never experienced before, got put on lexapro, tried seroquel and gabapentin, tapered seroquel and gabapentin, then stopped mid taper of lexapro due to withdrawals. So I am going to explain in more detail about the time frame when I first got to 2.5mg lexapro; I made the drop from 5mg to 2.5mg in June/July, I noticed increasing anxiety and cognitive defects, but I ignored it since I was able to function. When I started school in september things came to a head and i started having panic attacks more often. I can't remember if I was functional still or not, but I was very anxious. My doctor told me to reinstate to 5mg, I did, and a kindling reaction happened where symptoms got so much worse and new ones showed up. Because the doctor made me believe the anxiety would go away (it was more than anxiety) I stayed at 5mg for 3 weeks before my intuition told me to go back down to 2.5mg. I started to feel better, but the symptoms have still been very very difficult. It has since been 6 weeks since going back down to 2.5mg. I reinstated to 2.6mg a few days ago. I noticed after i initially took the 2.6mg dose, my body relaxed a good amount. I can't tell, however, if I am more sensitive to light or it has increased other symptoms and I am confused on whether the slight updose is causing a bad reaction but just 'minor' or the bad reaction will build over time. Is there a way to identify this? Is it just the course of healing and those symptoms would happen anyway? is the relaxation and overall improvement in symptoms each day a good sign of reinstatement, and would it still be a chance that reinstatement can alleviate WD symptoms (at least a good amount) up to a certain dose (not 5mg, but lower), what amount would that likely be, what have stories from others shown to be successful in this situation? I just wonder, if I hadn't gone up to 5mg at that time, but say 3mg, would my symptoms have gotten better? or would my WD symptoms improve a good amount if I keep going up slightly by 0.1 increments, and even if it got better, how much better could it get and by what time frame? I would really appreciate any input. Thanks.

@justicewillcome - I moved this post to your original intro - each member gets one introduction.  I did ask the moderator team for additional input if they have any.  thank you.

Edited November 24, 2024 by Jane318

[Emonda]

On 11/21/2024 at 3:50 PM, Jane318 said:

This is a good sign!  I would wait a week before increasing again - It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  By then you will better know if 2.6 mg is working for you.  If it is, I would stay there until you stabilize.  If not, then yes, try 2.7 mg and wait a week.  I would be reluctant to go higher than 2.7 due to kindling risk.  I am really optimistic you will feel better soon!  Please keep us posted.

 

I'm with Jane. You've made quite a few changes, plus you've used alcohol and weed.

 

Your body needs stability. I'd sit back where you are, and monitor for longer. It can take months to settle down from the changes you have made. I waited ~5 months after making a few mistakes back at the start of my journey.

[justicewillcome]

symptom_logs-wkUnT3Avw-transformed.heifsymptoms_log_2-transformed (1).heifsymptoms_log_3-transformed.heif

 

I uploaded pictures of my symptom logs I have been doing from 11/16-11/25 (today). overall I notice my symptoms get better by the evening/end of the day, and mornings feel worse. Overall there are improvements each day. I feel negative effects set in more a couple hours after taking the lexapro dose (which I take around 9pm). Could there be adverse effects from the drug at this point, and withdrawals? whatever is going on based on the information, what is the best course of action? Thank you.

[Jane318]

@justicewillcome - Unfortunately, I am unable to open / view these files.  I prefer to not download files to my home computer also.  It is best is to paste the text per example I gave you here:  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/31909-justicewillcome-severe-wd-from-too-fast-discontinuation-of-lexapro-excessive-updose/#findComment-713169

 

Nonetheless, based on your summary, my observations / questions are:

1.  It is quite common to feel worse in the mornings, improving as the day progress.  This is true for me also.

2.  You say you take Lexapro around 9 pm a couple hours after taking the med - sounds like you are a late night person!  Since you updosed only to 2.6 mg and saw improvement right away, and since your symptoms don't worsen immediately or extremely worsen, I suspect this is the normal daily symptom cycle for you.  I would hold here.

 

From a previous post - realized I didn't specifically address questions:

On 11/23/2024 at 4:23 PM, justicewillcome said:

I reinstated to 2.6mg a few days ago. I noticed after i initially took the 2.6mg dose, my body relaxed a good amount. I can't tell, however, if I am more sensitive to light or it has increased other symptoms and I am confused on whether the slight updose is causing a bad reaction but just 'minor' or the bad reaction will build over time. Is there a way to identify this? Is it just the course of healing and those symptoms would happen anyway? is the relaxation and overall improvement in symptoms each day a good sign of reinstatement, and would it still be a chance that reinstatement can alleviate WD symptoms (at least a good amount) up to a certain dose (not 5mg, but lower), what amount would that likely be, what have stories from others shown to be successful in this situation?

First, it appears that updosing was a good choice.

 

As for your symptoms, the pattern you describe is normal.  And it is normal for symptoms to change over time as we heal / stabilize.  I wish it were possible to answer your questions with specificity, but it just isn't.  What we do know is that reinstatement / updose of a small dose is the only known way to alleviate extreme withdrawal symptoms.  Each person is unique, so finding that dose is a matter of keeping the change sufficient to effect improvement (which you have seen since updosing to 2.6 mg) but small enough to avoid kindling.  Only you can judge where that is.  Once there, you must hold and wait, because it takes time to heal.  In your case, you have tapered off several drugs more quickly than we would advise, and also used substances that further aggravate the CNS.  There is a lot going on inside you that needs to settle down.   This does not mean will not heal, but it will take longer than you may expect.  And no one can say with certainly that X is responsible for Y and if you do Z then healing will happen in W weeks.   We do know from thousands of case histories, that you do need to stabilize - make no more changes and support your body's healing process as best you can.  And you will stabilize, with Time and Patience.  I encourage you to rest in that.

 

Symptoms run the gamut and they change over time as different parts of our brain heal, that is normal too.  

On 11/23/2024 at 4:23 PM, justicewillcome said:

I just wonder, if I hadn't gone up to 5mg at that time, but say 3mg, would my symptoms have gotten better? or would my WD symptoms improve a good amount if I keep going up slightly by 0.1 increments, and even if it got better, how much better could it get and by what time frame?

It is not possible to say, but this is in the past.  I encourage you to focus on moving forward, getting better where you are right now.

 

Please keep us posted.  Best wishes.

 

 

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318 

20 hours ago, Jane318 said:

Symptoms run the gamut and they change over time as different parts of our brain heal, that is normal too.

so how exactly does this happen, and what usually happens in regards to symptoms 'changing?' Like did the worst of the symptoms go away first, and then other symptoms, but more manageable started becoming more apparent? Because I am hoping the most unbearable symptoms go away soon and then other symptoms, although painful, are more manageable. Once a symptom lessens or goes away, is it fair to trust that it will stay away and won't be as bad again (as long as we keep taking care of our bodies)? Like how did it happen for you? Because I know fully healing will take time, and that is fine, but I am hoping the severity and strangest of symptoms go away fairly quickly, within the first few months (or less), like I am hoping to get to a point where I can bear the day and feel mostly normal soon(by normal I mean being able to think thoughts, have mental processes and perception feeling normal) even if that means still dealing with a lot of anxiety/depression, some cognitive issues, physical symptoms, etc. 

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318 Also, I am considering going up to 2.7mg to help further. I know continuously increasing is not advised and won't solve everything, but I am curious if going up a tiny bit would alleviate symptoms further, considering my CNS responses so far. Ideally, I am hoping that going up to 2.7mg will help a bit more, to a point where I can manage symptoms, and if that is the case I would not continue to increase, even is symptoms are still there. 

 

Thank you for your help. 

[Jane318]

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

so how exactly does this happen, and what usually happens in regards to symptoms 'changing?' Like did the worst of the symptoms go away first, and then other symptoms, but more manageable started becoming more apparent? Because I am hoping the most unbearable symptoms go away soon and then other symptoms, although painful, are more manageable. Once a symptom lessens or goes away, is it fair to trust that it will stay away and won't be as bad again (as long as we keep taking care of our bodies)? Like how did it happen for you? Because I know fully healing will take time, and that is fine, but I am hoping the severity and strangest of symptoms go away fairly quickly, within the first few months (or less), like I am hoping to get to a point where I can bear the day and feel mostly normal soon(by normal I mean being able to think thoughts, have mental processes and perception feeling normal) even if that means still dealing with a lot of anxiety/depression, some cognitive issues, physical symptoms, etc. 

After reading many of SA members' stories, it is evident to me that although there is commonality of withdrawal symptoms and a common pattern of healing (windows and waves), the specifics of how this happens is unique to every person.  It seems likely that factors that shape our healing would include the specific psychotropic drugs a person took at what doses and for how long (each affects the brain differently); use of other drugs / substances; nutrition; overall health; age; gender probably due to hormonal influences; genetic factors, and many other things.  Our bodies are so complex!

 

For me, I've observed the windows and waves pattern with general upward trend - that is, improving slowly over time.  My symptoms have remained pretty much the same so far, but have lessened in severity.  For me, these symptoms are depression, fatigue, anhedonia, brain fog, irritability, negative thoughts.  Others report symptoms coming and going during recovery, especially physical symptoms such as headaches, joint pain, tinnitus, etc.  Again, every person is unique.  For me - after holding for four months, I see definite improvement (and you will too!).  I find I am able to think better and am more motivated to do things.  Fatigue is a bit better, and am able to function a bit better in social situations.  I know this is going to take longer than I had hoped, but I also know I am heading in the right direction.  I try to focus on what I have control over in the here and now.  I can't change the past, and it does me no good to beat myself up or get angry at others about it.

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

Also, I am considering going up to 2.7mg to help further. I know continuously increasing is not advised and won't solve everything, but I am curious if going up a tiny bit would alleviate symptoms further, considering my CNS responses so far. Ideally, I am hoping that going up to 2.7mg will help a bit more, to a point where I can manage symptoms, and if that is the case I would not continue to increase, even is symptoms are still there. 

Only you know your body and this is your choice.  Going up may help, it may have no effect, or it may make things worse.  If the latter, you would know right away and could always drop back down to where you are now.  At some point though, I believe you need to stop making changes and hold for a good long while to stabilize.

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318 so last night I felt very activated again, for the past few days my physical symptoms got much better, but since last night they are back. I can't tell if it was the fact that I ate 6.5 eggs yesterday (too many?), going up to 2.6mg is building up in a bad way in my system, a wave, or something else. Also, I am wondering specifically about recovery timelines after a kindling reaction, and if after that people have found relief from micro-updosing? Because when I was going through kindling, due to malpractice/ignorance of my doctor, I stayed on that dose for 3 weeks before realizing I needed to step back down. Also, Is it possible for physical symptoms to be present without mental symptoms? Also, I am in a residential for mental health treatment but they house us with substance use people who smoke nicotine all the time, they limit vaping in cars and common areas but I am worried second hand smoke is impacting my recovery, and people are getting sick during this time and I am afraid of getting sick and that affecting my recovery, so what would I do if I were to get sick so as to not hurt my CNS more? Like with a cold, COVID, bacteria, etc.?

[Jane318]

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

last night I felt very activated again, for the past few days my physical symptoms got much better, but since last night they are back. I can't tell if it was the fact that I ate 6.5 eggs yesterday (too many?), going up to 2.6mg is building up in a bad way in my system, a wave, or something else

It is normal for symptoms to cycle up and down while during withdrawal.  Please review:    The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

I hope you are tracking your symptoms using the  Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) or other method.   You should also track any foods, activities, supplements, or other that seem to trigger symptoms so you can avoid them in the future.   It don't think it is possible to say with certainty that the eggs affected you, but it is possible.  Some people do report a reaction to eggs when they are in withdrawal / tapering.  I recommend that you make a note about this occurrence and look out to see if it happens again.

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

Also, I am wondering specifically about recovery timelines after a kindling reaction

Per previous response:

On 11/20/2024 at 9:15 PM, Jane318 said:

I wish I could give you a healing timeline, but there isn't one.  Everyone is different.  I can tell you that it will likely be months, but you will stabilize / heal.  Symptoms often change over time - some people think this is due to different parts of the brain healing at different time.   You might like to read:  What is happening in your brain?

 

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

Is it possible for physical symptoms to be present without mental symptoms?

As noted above, each person in unique.  You might browse / search the site to become familiar with the experiences of other people who are recovering from Lexapro.

 

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

I am worried second hand smoke is impacting my recovery, and people are getting sick during this time and I am afraid of getting sick and that affecting my recovery, so what would I do if I were to get sick so as to not hurt my CNS more? Like with a cold, COVID, bacteria, etc.?

It is unfortunate that you are exposed to second-hand smoke.  I encourage you to do what you can to avoid it, but worrying over things of which we have limited or no control is counter-productive to your healing. 

Unfortunately, we all get sick from time to time.  Some people report that withdrawal symptoms worsen during withdrawal.  So do what you can to keep your immune system strong and refuse to worry.  Things you can do:  Nutritious, whole foods diet , fresh air and sunshine, and adequate rest are basic.  Stress / worry weakens the immune system.  Recommend looking into cognitive brain therapy (CBT) and other strategies to learn to direct your thinking into positive channels.  Here are some forums you might want to explore:

 Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

"Change the channel" - dealing with cognitive symptoms

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

Symptoms and self-care

Getting Started With Mindfulness

  

Again, your body needs to stabilize and this will take some time.  Symptoms will go up and down in severity, this is normal.  Over time, the general direction will go towards improvement.   I encourage you to do NOT change your dose again, up or down.  Trying to hurry things along this way will only make things worse and lengthen your healing timeline.  TIME + PATIENCE.

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318 so I called the pharmacy and they said the initial liquid lexapro I got was from a different manufacturer than the one I got refilled a few days ago, so I am wondering how to account for that and tips on making sure the manufacturer is the same or where I can get the previous manufacturer's bottle from? They mentioned the first manufacturer is on backcall (?) so they can't refill anything right now. And I am wondering how much that would deter my stabilization, having a different manufacturer.

[Jane318]

4 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

@Jane318 so I called the pharmacy and they said the initial liquid lexapro I got was from a different manufacturer than the one I got refilled a few days ago, so I am wondering how to account for that and tips on making sure the manufacturer is the same or where I can get the previous manufacturer's bottle from? They mentioned the first manufacturer is on backcall (?) so they can't refill anything right now. And I am wondering how much that would deter my stabilization, having a different manufacturer.

@justicewillcome - We try to stay with the same manufacturer, but it is not always possible.  You might try calling a couple different pharmacies and see if you get the same answer.

 

Are you using the generic liquid version of Lexapro (escitalopram)?  This seems to work the best for people.  See Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

And/or what is the version that that you are using and that the pharmacist now says is no longer available? 

 

When did you switch from the pill to the liquid version?    Did you have any issues with that change?  

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318 How would I know I have the generic liquid version vs another version? 

Would changing the time I take my medicine (from 8:30pm to 9pm) make a big difference usually?

Do people usually stabilize quickly with a new manufactured medicine? I just don't want it to get in the way of my recovery

It seems the original manufacturer (Rising) is on backorder and the new one (Amneal) is usually the one to supply liquid lexapro to the pharmacies around me, then again the pharmacists I called seemed unsure and changed their answers on who the manufacturers were so I have a hard time even trusting their information. 

 

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318 I am also wondering how successful micro-updosing would be for people who had a kindling reaction, would updosing be less likely to work or just as successful for people who didn't go through kindling (people who originally micro-updosed vs excessively updosed)? And is it possible that the activation could occur a couple of weeks after updosing by 0.1mg? I felt very activated again last night and physical symptoms have come back a bit after seeming to get better. Some potential factors: just got my period today, increased to 2.6mg from 2.5mg on 11/19/24, take raspberries/apples with lexapro (maybe specific foods don't mix well), changed the time I take the medicine from around 8:30pm to around 9pm 

[Jane318]

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

How would I know I have the generic liquid version vs another version? 

 

The generic name is escitalopram.  Brand names are Lexapro, Cipralex, Seroplex, Lexamil, Lexam.

 

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

Would changing the time I take my medicine (from 8:30pm to 9pm) make a big difference usually?

You might try and see  if it helps.  When changing, we do encourage to do so gradually, by no more than 1 hour per day.

 

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

Do people usually stabilize quickly with a new manufactured medicine? I just don't want it to get in the way of my recovery

Some people notice an increase in symptoms as the body adjusts to the change, which is why we suggest keeping same manufacturer, where possible.  Others don't notice it.  When changing, good idea to make the change gradually, assuming you have some remaining of current prescription.  Take some of the old, some of the new over several days, increasing the amount of the new until you are taking only the new.  

 

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

It seems the original manufacturer (Rising) is on backorder and the new one (Amneal) is usually the one to supply liquid lexapro to the pharmacies around me, then again the pharmacists I called seemed unsure and changed their answers on who the manufacturers were so I have a hard time even trusting their information. 

Did you read https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/406-tips-for-tapering-off-escitalopram-lexapro/?  This page has the following:  "In the US, use GoodRx.com yourself to find a liquid version at a local pharmacy, or get it from a mail-order pharmacy such as honeybeehealth.com (phone them to request liquid; check that they can mail to your state) or healthwarehouse.com.   For your doctor's information from https://www.drugs.com/pro/escitalopram-oral-solution.html   Quote Oral Solution Escitalopram Oral Solution USP 5 mg/5 mL is a clear, colorless peppermint flavored liquid. 240 mL Bottle NDC 16571-769-24   The NDC code is the ordering code."

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

 I am also wondering how successful micro-updosing would be for people who had a kindling reaction, would updosing be less likely to work or just as successful for people who didn't go through kindling (people who originally micro-updosed vs excessively updosed)?

I am unsure what you are asking here.  Per my prior responses, since you report improvements after updosing to 2.6 mg, I would recommend you stay at this dose until you stabilize.  You might review the links previous provided.

 

2 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

I felt very activated again last night and physical symptoms have come back a bit after seeming to get better.

It is normal for symptoms to wax and wane.  From my original post to you:  "As you hold and later, when you resume tapering, it is very normal to have periods where you feel better, and periods where you feel terrible.  This is what we call the windows and waves pattern of stabilization.  This is actually a good sign of healing!  Read more about windows and waves here:   The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization"

 

And yes, hormonal cycles and other factors play a part.  But that is life.  We can only control what we can control.  The most important thing is to not keep changing the dose, to hold as long as it takes to stabilize.

[justicewillcome]

19 hours ago, Jane318 said:

I am unsure what you are asking here.

@Jane318 I am asking that if kindling happens, and then one goes back down, does that decrease the chance of an updose (by a small amount) working for somebody?

[Jane318]

1 hour ago, justicewillcome said:

@Jane318 I am asking that if kindling happens, and then one goes back down, does that decrease the chance of an updose (by a small amount) working for somebody?

Your experience would indicate that updosing by a small amount can still be effective.  I'll check with the other moderators to see what their experience has been and let you know.

Edited December 6, 2024 by Jane318

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318 So 2 nights ago I went to 2.7mg, and last night I went to 2.8mg. I am feeling a bit better still, but still very bad symptoms. I am wondering if it would be okay to keep going up by 0.1mg until I feel manageable with the symptoms? Or does the dose ramp up over a few days? I am just suffering really bad still and want to be able to manage symptoms already, and if homeostasis can be reached with the right dose then I want to try that.

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318  I am wondering if slightly reinstating gabapentin could help alleviate withdrawal symptoms? I currently am dealing with withdrawals that got bad during a lexapro taper, but since I was on multiple drugs (gabapentin being one of them) and gabapentin was the drug I tapered before I started tapering lexapro, I am wondering if the accumulation of withdrawals are contributing to the symptoms and if reinstating the other drug I got off of could help? It has been a very long time, close to a year, since I last took gabapentin, and I do not remember any crazy withdrawals other than social anxiety increasing. Any input?

[Jane318]

@justicewillcome

9 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

So 2 nights ago I went to 2.7mg, and last night I went to 2.8mg. I am feeling a bit better still, but still very bad symptoms. I am wondering if it would be okay to keep going up by 0.1mg until I feel manageable with the symptoms? Or does the dose ramp up over a few days? I am just suffering really bad still and want to be able to manage symptoms already, and if homeostasis can be reached with the right dose then I want to try that.

I understand you are suffering, and I am sorry.  However, I cannot offer anything further than what I have already advised, which is based on the collective knowledge of thousands of people over more than two decades.  You continue to make frequent changes, contrary to what we recommend.  Please re-read my prior posts. That said, only you know your body and how you are feeling.  You must of course decide for yourself. 

 

3 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

I am wondering if slightly reinstating gabapentin could help alleviate withdrawal symptoms? I currently am dealing with withdrawals that got bad during a lexapro taper, but since I was on multiple drugs (gabapentin being one of them) and gabapentin was the drug I tapered before I started tapering lexapro, I am wondering if the accumulation of withdrawals are contributing to the symptoms and if reinstating the other drug I got off of could help? It has been a very long time, close to a year, since I last took gabapentin, and I do not remember any crazy withdrawals other than social anxiety increasing. Any input?

Given the long time you have been off gabapentin and your relative ease of getting off of it, I would not reinstate gabapentin if I were you.  

[justicewillcome]

@Jane318 has anyone had success with new meds or switching to a sister med (citalopram)? how do you feel about the effectiveness of your adrenal cocktails? what are those meant to help with? I also tried magnesium early on in the withdrawal and felt worse from taking it, but I never tried magnesium threonate, would that be likely to work given the fact that the other magnesiums did not?

[Jane318]

@justicewillcome

5 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

has anyone had success with new meds or switching to a sister med (citalopram)?

You might search the site for this.  We generally discourage switching meds.  You are trying to stabilize.  It is important to keep things constant as you do.

 

5 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

how do you feel about the effectiveness of your adrenal cocktails? what are those meant to help with?

The adrenal cocktails provide extra potassium to support the adrenals.  This is something I have been doing for years, as part of The Root Cause Protocol, which is a nutritional protocol that I adopted several years ago, even prior to tapering.  Some people find the adrenal cocktails activating.  It is not something I would recommend adding during withdrawal / CNS instability.

 

5 hours ago, justicewillcome said:

I also tried magnesium early on in the withdrawal and felt worse from taking it, but I never tried magnesium threonate, would that be likely to work given the fact that the other magnesiums did not?

Some people are not able to tolerate magnesium at all.  In this case, you might look into trying to eat more foods that are rich in magnesium (search the internet for this).  The only way to know if you can tolerate the threonate form is to try it, starting with a very small amount.

 

Still, the most important thing during periods of acute withdrawal / CNS instability is to keep things constant as much as possible.  I would not be experimenting with other supplements or meds at this time.  Do try to eat as healthy as you can, nutrient dense foods.  Rest when you can.  You will get through this, but you need to understand this will take months. There is no fast shortcut through this.  Time + Patience + Stability.