Raymond: Paxil withdrawals after long used

[Raymond]

Hello, I have been in paxil for over 10 years and I had tried getting off two times with no success.  I am on my third time trying to get off. I tampering from 20 mg to 10mg to 5mg and about two weeks ago I stopped taking the medication.  Now, I started to experience insomnia where I don't even sleep more that an hour or two.  I go to bed tired and the minute I put my head on pillow, all these intrusive thoughts start coming out until I am no longer sleepy.  I probably should have tamper longer to come off.  I also experienced headaches, muscle cramps, fear, small skin burning sensation.  Anxiety is mild. I can read and do excersices but body fatigue.   

Any suggestions for long nights without sleeping? I even thought about going back to the medication and tamper it longer.  I take saint John worth, magnesium and other supplements to see it it helps on stopping terrible feelings.  

 

I am trying to have courage to continue with coming off this evil medication..

Edited November 26, 2024 by Emonda
Name to title

[Emonda]

Dear @Raymond

 

So the moderators can best help you, please complete your drug signature by following these instructions. Adding a signature ensures your drug history appears at the bottom of every post, making it more efficient for those trying to assist. This link should go directly to your own signature: Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

4 hours ago, Raymond said:

I tampering from 20 mg to 10mg to 5mg and about two weeks ago I stopped taking the medication.

 

This is way too quickly.

 

4 hours ago, Raymond said:

Now, I started to experience insomnia where I don't even sleep more that an hour or two.  I go to bed tired and the minute I put my head on pillow, all these intrusive thoughts start coming out until I am no longer sleepy.  I probably should have tamper longer to come off.  I also experienced headaches, muscle cramps, fear, small skin burning sensation.  Anxiety is mild. I can read and do excersices but body fatigue.   

 

Those that taper too quickly often develop very unpleasant withdrawal symptoms. This Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) is a helpful summary of what many experience.

 

4 hours ago, Raymond said:

Any suggestions

 

4 hours ago, Raymond said:

I even thought about going back to the medication and tamper it longer.

 

Please read these two links:

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

Kindling

4 hours ago, Raymond said:

I take saint John worth, magnesium and other supplements to see it it helps on stopping terrible feelings.  

 

Make sure you put everything you take / have taken in your signature.

4 hours ago, Raymond said:

I am trying to have courage to continue with coming off this evil medication

 

Slow tapering is the wy to go with ADs, especially this one.

Why taper by 10% of my dosage? The reductions should get smaller and smaller each month, for example: 10mg, 9mg, 8.1mg, 7.3mg etc. This process involves a degree of trial and error, as there is no way of predicting how an individual will respond. Importantly, if you develop unpleasant side effects from tapering, halt the taper, give yourself time to settle, and once stable, taper more slowly and by smaller amounts moving forward. The experience of others suggests that the lower you go in dose, the slower you need to go with tapering.

I'm off to work, but I will be back at the end of my day to see if you have added your signature. Hopefully, another member may jump in while I am at work.

 

Emonda

[LostInCanada]

Hi @Raymond welcome SA. 

5 hours ago, Raymond said:

I take saint John worth, magnesium and other supplements to see it it helps on stopping terrible feelings

St John's wort is a really problematic supplement. I would strongly suggest stopping it. Magnesium is fine. What other supplements are you taking? Most that claim to help with mental health will cause complications in the long run.

5 hours ago, Raymond said:

tampering from 20 mg to 10mg to 5mg and about two weeks ago I stopped taking the medication.

This was way too fast as you mentioned. You are already feeling some of the withdrawal symptoms which will most likely not peak until 3 months off the drug. 

Experience on here shows it can get much worse and for much longer (years) than ever imagined. 

I personally did a stop like you and thought staying off was better and that I could beat it. At the 3 month point it was beyond sustainable and I reinstated. 

I urge you to do the same. Your reinstatement dose will be much less than your initial dose but we need to know exactly what the dates were for each drop from 20 mg to 10 mg to 5 mg to 0.

 

5 hours ago, Raymond said:

trying to have courage to continue with coming off this evil medication..

I know you want off but doing so quickly is not beneficial or sustainable. 

We will be here to help. ♥️🙏

[Raymond]

I believe I started tampering paxil 20mg back in July to September on 10 mg. Then 5 mg October and stopped two weeks ago.

[Emonda]

Thanks for adding your signature. To make sure I understand:

 

• You were on 20mg every day from January 2022 until July 2024.
• In July 2024, you dropped to 10mg every day (do you know the exact dates).
• In October, you dropped to 5mg every day (do you know the exact dates).
• From November 13, you moved to 0mg.

Is this right?

 

How long have you been taking St Johns Wort?

Edited November 27, 2024 by Emonda
added more detail

[Raymond]

I don't remember exact dates.  Saint John worth I started using nov 16, but I stopped yesterday because I had to reinstate 5mg paxil due to the withdrawal and insomnia I was experiencing.

 

The minute I took the 5mg, I felt to sleep and withdrawal symptoms, specially insomnia and overload thoughts went away.  I felt relaxed.

 

Since I have taken paxil for the longest, I will definitely continue with 5mg on long period and tamper it slowly.

 

How long should I continue before I can tamper to 4.5 and so on

[Raymond]

16 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

Hi @Raymond welcome SA. 

St John's wort is a really problematic supplement. I would strongly suggest stopping it. Magnesium is fine. What other supplements are you taking? Most that claim to help with mental health will cause complications in the long run.

This was way too fast as you mentioned. You are already feeling some of the withdrawal symptoms which will most likely not peak until 3 months off the drug. 

Experience on here shows it can get much worse and for much longer (years) than ever imagined. 

I personally did a stop like you and thought staying off was better and that I could beat it. At the 3 month point it was beyond sustainable and I reinstated. 

I urge you to do the same. Your reinstatement dose will be much less than your initial dose but we need to know exactly what the dates were for each drop from 20 mg to 10 mg to 5 mg to 0.

 

I know you want off but doing so quickly is not beneficial or sustainable. 

We will be here to help. ♥️🙏

I stopped it since I had to go back to medication to take care of insomnia I developed from withdrawal.   I introduced 5mg and insomnia symptoms went away and was able to sleep 8 hours straight.

[Raymond]

18 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

Hi @Raymond welcome SA. 

St John's wort is a really problematic supplement. I would strongly suggest stopping it. Magnesium is fine. What other supplements are you taking? Most that claim to help with mental health will cause complications in the long run.

This was way too fast as you mentioned. You are already feeling some of the withdrawal symptoms which will most likely not peak until 3 months off the drug. 

Experience on here shows it can get much worse and for much longer (years) than ever imagined. 

I personally did a stop like you and thought staying off was better and that I could beat it. At the 3 month point it was beyond sustainable and I reinstated. 

I urge you to do the same. Your reinstatement dose will be much less than your initial dose but we need to know exactly what the dates were for each drop from 20 mg to 10 mg to 5 mg to 0.

 

I know you want off but doing so quickly is not beneficial or sustainable. 

We will be here to help. ♥️🙏

I reinstated last night and the insomnia went away with few minutes.  I reinstated 5 mg instead of the 20 mg.  I felt my brain coming down and felt to sleep quick.  I will continue with 5 mg to give my body a relaxing stage before tampering the way it should.  

 

Should I increase it to more mg or leave it at 5 mg and see if my body continues feeling better?

 

I am planning to continue for 6 more months to stabilize the body before slowly cutting milligrams...

 

Any suggestions?

[LostInCanada]

3 hours ago, Raymond said:

, I will definitely continue with 5mg on long period and tamper it slowly

I think this is wise. I am glad reinstating gave you instant relief. There has been some destabilization due to the fast taper. Don't be surprised if it still is a bit bumpy. Definitely don't go any higher. 

I think waiting 6 months to make sure all is good before stepping down to 4.5 mg is a good idea.

Paxil under 5 mg self metabolizes so your body thinks you are tapering faster than you are. You want to be nice and stable to start. 

Accuracy is really important. Do you have a scale/one sided razor to weigh the pills? 

 

[Raymond]

1 hour ago, LostInCanada said:

I think this is wise. I am glad reinstating gave you instant relief. There has been some destabilization due to the fast taper. Don't be surprised if it still is a bit bumpy. Definitely don't go any higher. 

I think waiting 6 months to make sure all is good before stepping down to 4.5 mg is a good idea.

Paxil under 5 mg self metabolizes so your body thinks you are tapering faster than you are. You want to be nice and stable to start. 

Accuracy is really important. Do you have a scale/one sided razor to weigh the pills? 

 

I do not have a scale to weigh pill.  I just divided the pill by cutting in half the 10 mg.

 

My feelings now is just a little bit hot flashes but nothing that bothers.  I think once I continue introducing the pill, it will stabilize unless I have to introduce a little more.  Out of all the side effects, the insomnia is probably the worst so far .

My symptoms were

More anxiety but manageable 

Burning sensation manageable 

Few body twitching rare

Insomnia with overloaded intrusive thoughts horrible..

 

Now, 

Only few hot sensation but not bad

Low anxiety which I think it will stabilize while I introduce the pill again...

 

Definitely going slow this time

[LostInCanada]

42 minutes ago, Raymond said:

stabilize unless I have to introduce a little more

You will not have to add more of the drug. Less is definitely more at this point. Increasing the dose can cause kindling and a whole new set of problems.

Reinstatement will not be an instant fix. You have been on the drug a solid amount of time and this has definitely destabilized your central nervous system. Do not add any supplements...this will just take patience and time.

Supplements can add to destabilization...once you are in withdrawal your body will not react normally to them. It is just an added stress for your body to deal with. I would strongly suggest stopping valerian 400mg extract (as it is contraindicated with paxil) (also extracts usually have alcohol which is a not good), ashhawanda 100 mg,  and the passion flower 400 mg. You may find cutting the melatonin in half is just as effective if not more. Again less is more in withdrawal. 

It is very important to get a scale and be as accurate as possible with your dose.

Many use a Gem 20 jewelry scale or something similar found on Amazon.

The pills have filler so they weigh much more than 10 mg which helps when cutting them. The jewelry scale needs to weigh to at least .001 g. 

I will send some links that should be read over.

 

[LostInCanada]

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/1596-using-a-scale-to-weigh-and-measure-doses/

 

[LostInCanada]

 

 

[Raymond]

21 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

You will not have to add more of the drug. Less is definitely more at this point. Increasing the dose can cause kindling and a whole new set of problems.

Reinstatement will not be an instant fix. You have been on the drug a solid amount of time and this has definitely destabilized your central nervous system. Do not add any supplements...this will just take patience and time.

Supplements can add to destabilization...once you are in withdrawal your body will not react normally to them. It is just an added stress for your body to deal with. I would strongly suggest stopping valerian 400mg extract (as it is contraindicated with paxil) (also extracts usually have alcohol which is a not good), ashhawanda 100 mg,  and the passion flower 400 mg. You may find cutting the melatonin in half is just as effective if not more. Again less is more in withdrawal. 

It is very important to get a scale and be as accurate as possible with your dose.

Many use a Gem 20 jewelry scale or something similar found on Amazon.

The pills have filler so they weigh much more than 10 mg which helps when cutting them. The jewelry scale needs to weigh to at least .001 g. 

I will send some links that should be read over.

 

Is it normal when withdrawal symptoms happens to have fear feelings and anxiety when even reading about this...

[LostInCanada]

1 hour ago, Raymond said:

Is it normal when withdrawal symptoms happens to have fear feelings and anxiety when even reading about this...

Yes. Try not to overthink it. Just stay the course with 5 mg and concentrate on healing. These symptoms will pass in time. Show yourself compassion, acceptance and love. 👍♥️🙏

[Raymond]

22 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

Yes. Try not to overthink it. Just stay the course with 5 mg and concentrate on healing. These symptoms will pass in time. Show yourself compassion, acceptance and love. 👍♥️🙏

One question that I have that a doctor could not explain and hospital back then did not explain is the burning sensation I experienced when this anxiety happened.  I felt from head to toe my body burning like 400 degrees.  Yet, all the test done were excellent....I never understood that issue.  I even thought it was more spiritual..

[LostInCanada]

1 hour ago, Raymond said:

burning

This is a common withdrawal symptom. My understanding it is neuropathy. Our whole central nervous system is affected which means every nerve is affected. It will lessen in time. Be patient and kind to yourself. ♥️🙏

 

[Raymond]

On 11/28/2024 at 10:17 AM, LostInCanada said:

Yes. Try not to overthink it. Just stay the course with 5 mg and concentrate on healing. These symptoms will pass in time. Show yourself compassion, acceptance and love. 👍♥️🙏

Good morning,  

 

Today, while in bed I felt a little anxiety in my head and burning sensation on my back.  It when away when I stood up.  Then, I lay down again and just a little of eye lid twitching.

 

I have noticed that I get these feelings when I'm in the middle of waking up.  Ounces, I stand up I feel burning sensation and anxiety coming down.  What is the reason for that?

 

Best,

 

[LostInCanada]

@Raymond again this is your nervous system responding to the trauma of being off a drug your body was dependent on.

This is a good checklist to have handy to see that what you are experiencing is normal withdrawal. It can take several months before these sensations stabilize. For myself it was over 7 months but I had cold turkey for 3 months so you should recover faster than that. 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=143

 

[Raymond]

On 12/1/2024 at 8:41 AM, LostInCanada said:

@Raymond again this is your nervous system responding to the trauma of being off a drug your body was dependent on.

This is a good checklist to have handy to see that what you are experiencing is normal withdrawal. It can take several months before these sensations stabilize. For myself it was over 7 months but I had cold turkey for 3 months so you should recover faster than that. 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=143 120.64 kB · 11,674 downloads

 

I finally got my Gemini 20 scale and 20 mg weight about .29 gram.  I divided the pill in 4 size and 1/4 weights .059 gram.  This is the amount I have being taking since I introduced it. 

[LostInCanada]

Great to hear. The important thing is to always stay at 0.59 g for each dose for accuracy moving forward.

It's good to keep a daily symptoms journal....rating symptoms 1-10 so you can track improvement. How are you feeling? 

We are here for you. 💯

[Raymond]

1 hour ago, LostInCanada said:

Great to hear. The important thing is to always stay at 0.59 g for each dose for accuracy moving forward.

It's good to keep a daily symptoms journal....rating symptoms 1-10 so you can track improvement. How are you feeling? 

We are here for you. 💯

Great, yes I am starting to do the journey.  The insomnia gone after I reinstated .59.  since then, no more.  Also, last three weeks I developed some muscle stiffness on right upper arm from ride side neck to arm and I thought it was an injury, but I think it might also be a withdrawal symptoms.  This week that symptoms is pretty much gone.  I have experienced irritation, anger for no reason, but it is something that goes and comes.  This week I have started experiencing few hot sensation and anxiety.  From 1 to 10, I will say I'm at 4.5.  nothing that bad.  I just ignore it.  Negative thoughts with fear feelings gone so far.

 

Thanks for the support.  I want to come off the right way.  Now, I do understand that many things I experienced was not me, but the effects of the pills

[LostInCanada]

4 minutes ago, Raymond said:

Thanks for the support.  I want to come off the right way

You are very welcome.

It is important to just stay at this dose for 2-3 months minimum before starting your taper. Stability is the key to success and rushing the process will cause more setbacks than benefits. 

Glad things are settling nicely for you. 👍

[Raymond]

On 12/6/2024 at 11:25 AM, LostInCanada said:

You are very welcome.

It is important to just stay at this dose for 2-3 months minimum before starting your taper. Stability is the key to success and rushing the process will cause more setbacks than benefits. 

Glad things are settling nicely for you. 👍

Today, I woke up feeling like out of breath and feelings anxiety like around my stomach.  I drank a beer last night.  I don't know if that's part of reason with symptoms today.

[LostInCanada]

5 hours ago, Raymond said:

I drank a beer last night

You just can't do that unfortunately without consequences. Your CNS needs to be pampered at this point so working with it instead of against it is so important. I know it sucks. I personally have to watch everything I drink and eat. This drug triggers histamine issues so as you go lower it is even more important. 

No caffeine (coffee, chocolate, green tea), no MSG, (hydrolyzed plant protein is 30% MSG), no alcohol, etc

5 hours ago, Raymond said:

woke up feeling like out of breath and feelings anxiety like around my stomach

Hopefully it will resolve quickly. 👍

[Raymond]

7 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

You just can't do that unfortunately without consequences. Your CNS needs to be pampered at this point so working with it instead of against it is so important. I know it sucks. I personally have to watch everything I drink and eat. This drug triggers histamine issues so as you go lower it is even more important. 

No caffeine (coffee, chocolate, green tea), no MSG, (hydrolyzed plant protein is 30% MSG), no alcohol, etc

Hopefully it will resolve quickly. 👍

Oh I'm I coffee drinker, but I will stop it too for now.  One coffee I tried was mushrooms coffee, and what kind of tea can I drink.  I can definitely stop alcohol since I really don't drink and only I don't like every blue moon. 

 

Hopefully, I start feeling better.  

[LostInCanada]

3 minutes ago, Raymond said:

I'm I coffee drinker

If your body is dependent on caffeine it is better to reduce your intact slowly. How many cups a day? 

4 minutes ago, Raymond said:

what kind of tea can I drink.

I drink Stash brand decaf because they do a natural decaf process. 

I also drink Rooibos tea because it is caffeine free. Do you like herbal teas-peppermint, ginger, chamomile, etc? 

 

This is quite the journey and it definitely takes time.

[Raymond]

3 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

If your body is dependent on caffeine it is better to reduce your intact slowly. How many cups a day? 

I drink Stash brand decaf because they do a natural decaf process. 

I also drink Rooibos tea because it is caffeine free. Do you like herbal teas-peppermint, ginger, chamomile, etc? 

 

This is quite the journey and it definitely takes time.

Yes, I also drink herbal teas like chamomile, passion flower, any herbal tea that can help me calm.  

I'm ready for the journey but I am not going back.  All these years thinking that I had an issue and it was the pill....

[LostInCanada]

14 minutes ago, Raymond said:

All these years thinking that I had an issue and it was the pill....

Yep...they cause everything they claim to help. 

The thing is even anxiety and depression are normal emotions and shouldn't be drugged away. 

Learning non drug coping methods like CBT, mindfulness, deep breathing, etc are very effective. 

17 minutes ago, Raymond said:

ready for the journey but I am not going back

It's a good resolve to have. Slow and steady wins the race. 💯

[Raymond]

12 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

Yep...they cause everything they claim to help. 

The thing is even anxiety and depression are normal emotions and shouldn't be drugged away. 

Learning non drug coping methods like CBT, mindfulness, deep breathing, etc are very effective. 

It's a good resolve to have. Slow and steady wins the race. 💯

Now, I am experiencing insomnia again.  I lay down and have anxiety all over my body and can't sleep. Do I need to increase the pill on reinstate stage or continue holding..

[Emonda]

4 hours ago, Raymond said:

I am experiencing insomnia again

 

We all struggle with this. It's a common WD symptom. Some of us find Melatonin for sleep a little beneficial.

I often listen to quiet, relaxing music when I'm awake for hours each night. I find the distraction of music stops my mind from racing.

 

4 hours ago, Raymond said:

Do I need to increase the pill on reinstate stage or continue holding..

 

I note LostinCanada's comment below:

 

On 11/28/2024 at 2:55 AM, LostInCanada said:

Don't be surprised if it still is a bit bumpy. Definitely don't go any higher. 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Emonda

[Raymond]

10 minutes ago, Emonda said:

 

We all struggle with this. It's a common WD symptom. Some of us find Melatonin for sleep a little beneficial.

 

 

 

I often listen to quiet, relaxing music when I'm awake for hours each night. I find the distraction of music stops my mind from racing.

 

 

I note LostinCanada's comment below:

 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Emonda

Last night, I was falling to sleep on the couch but the minute I went to bed, I could not sleep.  I felt anxiety on my head with fear feelings.   Then anxiety spread to the body.  From 1 to 10, feelings were more like 5.  I think I finally stayed sleep around 1130pm until 2:05am then felt sleep until like 445 which it is the time I have to wake up to go to work.

 

I experience the anxiety when laying down but when I stand up all feelings were gone.  I don't know why it happened when laying down.  Maybe a psycholical issue associating bed with insomnia or is it part of the withdrawal symptoms.

 

I took 1 mg of melatonin.  

[LostInCanada]

5 hours ago, Raymond said:

 

I experience the anxiety when laying down

I found sleeping propped up on pillows beneficial. Also I have found a night light eases my anxiety. 

Increasing the drug could actually make your symptoms worse. Your body is trying to adjust to the damage done by a quick taper. It will figure it out, we just don't know when. Last night I had brutal insomnia as well. Emonda struggles with it too as do many. 

When anxiety hits, tell yourself you are safe, it is just increased adrenaline. For some reason your body is 'back firing' but it can't hurt you. Deep breathing helps, some do EFT, CBT, mindfulness, etc.

[Raymond]

22 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

Yep...they cause everything they claim to help. 

The thing is even anxiety and depression are normal emotions and shouldn't be drugged away. 

Learning non drug coping methods like CBT, mindfulness, deep breathing, etc are very effective. 

It's a good resolve to have. Slow and steady wins the race. 💯

Well, I will say first waves. 

Last night insomnia, anxiety on head, fear feelings when laying down.  Wake up and symptoms reduces. Now, a little headache, small amounts of fear for no reasons, a little bit down, but calm, anxiety on stomach mainly and few body aches.

 

It's hard to tell if I'm taking the 5mg since I don't have my scale at work.  I kind of told 1/4 minus a little to match previous doses

[Raymond]

4 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

I found sleeping propped up on pillows beneficial. Also I have found a night light eases my anxiety. 

Increasing the drug could actually make your symptoms worse. Your body is trying to adjust to the damage done by a quick taper. It will figure it out, we just don't know when. Last night I had brutal insomnia as well. Emonda struggles with it too as do many. 

When anxiety hits, tell yourself you are safe, it is just increased adrenaline. For some reason your body is 'back firing' but it can't hurt you. Deep breathing helps, some do EFT, CBT, mindfulness, etc.

Yes, feelings are scary, but I am holding not to go back to the medication.  Besides, the symptoms are bad but won't kill.  I keep repeating myself....you can do this...

 

This a blessing supportive group..

[LostInCanada]

3 minutes ago, Raymond said:

hard to tell if I'm taking the 5mg since I don't have my scale at work. 

I cut them ahead of time. I suggest you do this to be accurate.

I am quite certain drinking that beer has caused this disruption. May take a week or two to settle.