ErickG: Don't know what else to do. Feel hopeless.

[ErickG]

Hi everyone,

 

My name is Erick, I'm from Brazil.

 

I'm writing this as I suffer and barely can do it.

 

My story with drugs began mid covid, September/October 2020 If I can recall. Me and my family were in lockdown (me, my sister and my brother, except my mother), I would watch news over the internet and TV all day long since the beginning of the pandemic in 2020, praying for a solution, a vaccine, what we lived through seemed to be unreal. My mother was still going to work in the beginning, so I would worry and wait all day long for her since the moment I wake, in terror, for weeks and months, until the pandemic got worse in my country and around the world, and they decided to let my mother and other people work from home. I remember starting presenting symptoms of fatigue, heavy breathing and a little bit of difficulty to sleep because of traumatic experience that the pandemic was being for me. My mother had PPD after her last newborn (my sister), so since very young she was introduced into antidepressants drugs, went on and off for months, but always went back to the same or a different one, always on and off antidepressants, mood stabilizers and benzos (clonazepam). Back to mid covid pandemic around September/October 2020, I don't remember for sure, it this was the date but anyways, I started taking my mother's Clonazepam to relieve the stress and to be able to rest more easily, 0.5mg the first time made it seem like I was in heaven (at that time all my mother and I knew about benzos is that you could take it for a couple of days and then just stop it), I think I took intermittently, there were days I would take to cope with the stress of being locked at home, with fear of anyone in my family get covid, mainly because of my mother, then there were days that I didn't take, that went on. Now, fast forward to end of 2021, where my anxiety disorder began, after too much stress and fearing all day long, was it this? Or was it actually withdrawal from clonazepam? After everything that I have learned here I started think about this. I begin presenting severe symptoms of anxiety and panic attacks, tingling, electrical shocks, muscle tension, muscle ache, diarrhea, pee all the time, tremors, racing heart, among other symptoms that I cannot remember, without any experience of this before, without knowing what was it that I was experiencing, I thought I was going insane, and that my life was over, went to hospital a couple of times, they just gave me diazepam 10mg, sent me back home. My mother took me to a neurologist 11/01/2021, who prescribed me Fluoxetine 20mg, I took for a month, my symptoms persisted, nothing seemed to be improving, I was cycling everyday, and taking Clonazepam 0.5mg to 1mg to sleep, in the panic attacks occasions I remember a day that I went to the hospital, they gave me 10mg Diazepam again, I came home and couldn't sleep, I was totally out of control, then I took 2mg Clonazepam, still couldn't sleep, until eventually, I blacked out. Went to a psychiatrist 12/02/2021, took me off Fluoxetine and prescribed me Paroxetine CR 12.5mg. Started taking it, didn't feel anything, after a week I went back to her clinic and said I was feeling fine for a couple of days already, that I was cycling everyday, that I was sedentary before, and I thought that was it, problem solved. She said to stop taking it then. After just 2 days, I had a crisis, all the same symptoms again, appointed another consultation with her fast, she put me on the Paroxetine CR 12.5mg again. Within a week of taking it again I became very sick, If the first time I didn't feel anything taking it, this second time the adverse effects hit hard, I was on bed, couldn't eat, only liquid, it was almost Christmas, nobody would appoint a consultation this time of the year and she didn't leave any contact information, I found her website, and the only form of contact was e-mail. I sent her an e-mail, told her what was happening, that was on bed feeling like I was sick, she responded telling me to stop the drug. At this time, I was already reading somethings on the internet, about how these drugs work, and that they take time and sometimes can happen more mild to severe adverse reaction, so I didn't listen to her, I couldn't bare to be suffering anymore, and the drug had to work. I continued taking it and after a week I got better, started eating again. But still, the symptoms didn't improve, I was still having all of them and panic attacks. So, that's when my mother decided to take me to her personal psychiatrist, who have been treating her for more than 20 years. I went there, he only listened, I talk, and then he prescribes me Paroxetine CR 25mg, says that the drug is the right one for my case but the dose was too low and I just had to wait now. Christmas 2021 goes by, New Year goes by, and I'm totally numb. Then suddenly after a few weeks, maybe approximately 2 months, everything starts to get better, and there it is, my life was back. Since then, I couldn't go back to the same doctor, he only accepted cash, it was expensive for me, since I had a healthcare plan. So I found a new psychiatrist, seems to be very good, he does consultation through the healthcare plan, I start to go to his clinic just to get prescriptions of Paroxetine CR 25mg, since I was fine and the treatment was 'successful'. With time, months, this doc starts to ask me If I had noticed any side effects of the Paroxetine regarding libido and sexual dysfunction, he proceeds to say that he doesn't like this drug and that he wishes to try and change to another drug, that has less or no side effects regarding the sexual part. I said to him that I didn't feel anything, that I was feeling fine, then he said ok, let's continue with Paroxetine. With each time I went to his clinic, he would ask how I was, and almost always touch on this subject, of sexual problems with Paroxetine. Until one day he convinced me to try and change, 08/26/2022 (after 1 year and 8 months being on Paroxetine and doing 'fine') - Fast taper 1-4 weeks Paroxetine already introducing Mirtazapine 15mg mid taper Paroxetine. Started taking the Mirtazapine 15mg and within a week I gained almost 22 pounds! I went straight back to him and told him that, immediattely he said "let's go back to Paroxetine CR 25mg then and drop Mirtazapine (I had already taper to 12.5mg Paroxetine as he advised). Period. I didn't feel bad side effects aside from the weight gain introducing Mirtazapine, also didn't feel anything tapering the Paroxetine, went straight back, and maybe I felt something during a period further but I think It wasn't noticeable. Continue treatment with Paroxetine CR 25mg and fast forward to 08/1/2024, I'm almost 3 years on Paroxetine now and also taking 0.6mg to 1mg of clonazepam everyday (much less than what I had to take when I was bad), through this journey I've have some ups and downs even on the drug, but with time I started to understand how to be fine, I used to miss doses for a day and take it at different times, when I started reading more, I found that this could have an impact, because of short half-life of Paroxetine, so I start to get things tight, and then for the whole 2024 I'm feeling TOTALLY fine, I'm happy, I'm working, I changed alot of my habits, I used to smoke cigarrette, stopped it, started to walk and cycle everyday. And like I said, everytime I went to his clinic he would insist in changing the drug, that he disliked Paroxetine, sexual side effects, and on and on. I WAS FINE! But he talked so much about sexual side effects, about this and that, that I started to wonder, and try to notice, pay attention, to If I was having any of it, and wasn't being able to see because I wasn't paying attention, so on this day I agreed with him. I said, maybe, that I went to have sex with a partner and that I couldn't maintain an erection, and now I'm wondering how stupid and silly I was, every person can have sexual problems one time or another even though they're not on antidepressants. Anyways, it was this day 08/1/2024 (not sure of the exact day but the mo that I agreed to him and asked to change the drug. He prescribed me Trazodone CR 50mg, said to do the usual 1-4 weeks taper off Paroxetine (a drug that like I said, I've been taking it for almost 3 years), he also said that he didn't like that I was still taking Clonazepam and that whe idea of Trazodone was also to make me sleepy and not feel the need to take Clonazepam, so he said to also start tapering Clonazepam, he said 0.1mg a week. I start tapering off Paroxetine and Clonazepam at the same time (going from 1mg Clonazepam, taking out 0.1mg each week) - things I'm saying between the story is because I know now, not before -, he told me to go straight from 25mg to 12.5mg, I remember him saying clearly: "Finish off the rest of tablets of 25mg you have and then start taking 12.5mg". I did it, 'cause I didnt know better. Then he said that after two weeks on taking 12.5mg I could cut the tablet in half and take for another 2 weeks, and then stop. That would leave me with a taper of 1 month! But at that time and throughout the years I have always read things here and there, to learn about things (unfortunately I wasn't able to find this site and Dr. Mark Horowitz before the catastrophe happens), I'm a very scientific person (at least I was) and a type of person who want to make things 'right', that likes to learn and read scientific papers when I can (once I read a paper, that conducted a study that found that Paroxetine would reach its peak therapeutic effect after 4 months of use, my doctor didn't know that - I tried to find this paper recently now but couldn't). Back to the story (and sorry for rodeo), when I started cutting the 12.5mg tablets into halves, I didn't obey him and took the cutted tablets for longer than 2 weeks, I was afraid to do it so fast because of the things I had read already. Then I started to experience DP/DR, irritability, stress (also related to work), energetic, also I noticed that I started to wake up suddenly at 7 or 7:30 a.m. automatically, my cell would ring only at 8 a.m. because my work is close and begins at 9 a.m. and waking up before the alarm never occurred to me, throughout all theses years using Paroxetine I didn't have problems with insomnia or waking up, in fact, all my life I always had esiness in getting to sleep and staying asleep. I think I had other symptoms as well, but can't remember, oh, crying spells. I started to became emotionally unstable, wanting cry for anything. I kinda was prepared for that, because I read about it, so I wasn't nervous, in my mind that was going to pass fast, and just continued to live through it and after 2 weeks it vanished. He NEVER said anything about withdrawal syndrome, let alone protracted withdrawal and other stuff. Then I continued to taper, because I was obeying his directions, he's the doctor, but like I said, I prolonged the taper way more, because I had already read on some articles, even the ones that recommend a fast taper (but not a so fast taper like 1 month), that going a bit slower would be advisible, so again, I prolonged the taper, took halve of 12.5mg tablets for longer and started quartering, and taking tiny pieces, for more days and weeks (but the CR tablets (you know) are not meant to be cut and the cuts were totally not similar). In total, my taper lasted 3 months, also tapering Clonazepam, from 08/1/2024 to 3/12/2024, the 0.3mg Clonazepam week, (I was feeling bad for 3 days already dizziness, turved vision, irritability, crying spells, anger) I came home and I crashed (there was also some heavy stress at work - and I was very irritated with some situations). All the same similar symptoms back, tingling, burning face (left side), burning arm (left side), muscle tension, muscle ache, heavy breathing (heavy chest), etc. I knew I wouldn't be able to sleep that way, and I instantly thought about both of the drugs being tapered, went on Clonazepam went back 1mg, I was still taking tiny pieces of Paroxetine (quartes of 12.5mg), then I stopped completely this day. From this day on my hell started, I go to sleep, and wake up in the middle of the night 3 a.m., the next day, I wake up with the symptoms, cope with it, and take 1mg Clonazepam at night again, same thing, wake up after few hours 2-3 hours of sleep, and can't go back to sleep, the third day this way I started to up the Clonazepam even more, went to 1,5mg, then I also started to research online, that's when I found a video of Dr. Mark Horowitz talking antidepressants and benzo and other types of drugs withdrawal syndrome, how it happens and the right way to taper off them, at the beginning of the video, he talks about SA community and other site that has been helping people and figuring out things on their own because the medical system didn't have a clue about it. Same thing, wake up 2 to 3 a.m. I sat on 2mg of Clonazepam the same dose I had to take when all my journey began in 2021, nothing. I start to get nervous, and hold while I read SA topics and learn for a week to see If it would improve, same thing happens over and over again, the symptoms are still there too, then I start to get into desperation, I read about reinstatement, that may work, that may not work, that may make things worse, I come about the reality and I'm crying all the time. When I decided I have read enough about it to have a bit of knowledge before making my introduction here, SA closes registrations for the end of the year. I message my (ex)doctor, (I don't wanna see him ever again) and I paid for a consultation online (it was a Saturday 12/14/2024) and it goes this way:

 

I told him what was going on, he told me to go back to Paroxetine CR 12.5mg and continue Trazodone CR 50mg. At this time, I had already read a bunch of things here on SA, including the risk of kindling, also watched some Dr. Mark Horowitz interviews. So I didn't obey him, I was scared, some people stories saying that even going back to 1mg made things worse, so I didn't take anything, I thought about waiting to see if It was going to pass. Then on 12/17/2024 I started to take tiny pieces that were left when I was tapering off, but after 3 days taking these pieces I couldn't bear it anymore, I was more than a week with sleep deprivation, I got desperate, and risked, went straight back to 12.5mg. On the fourth day of taking 12.5mg I noticed some minor improvements, the tingling and the burning sensation were milder, but I was still suffering alot, I continued to take 12.5mg throughout the days SA was closed to new registrations and continued to suffer with severe sleep deprivation but most of other symptoms were improving.

 

I go back to him (12/21/2024) via WhatsApp after a week, I tell him I still wasn't able to sleep, despite taking too much Clonazepam (at that time 3mg already), he goes like this:

 

"Right. *Updated Precription*

 

Take Trazodone CR 50mg 2 hours before going to bed for 7 days then STOP. (simply stop a drug that I have been taking for more than 3 months already!)

Take Paroxetine CR 12.5mg 2 hours before going to bed.

Take 1.6mg Clonazepam in bed."

 

I said that I have been taking 3mg of Clonazepam, and haven't been able to sleep, then he said I could take another 1.6mg If I wake up. I said, "we're removing a drug (Trazodone) that I have been taking for 3 months now cold turkey?" He said: "You're right, let's do it slow, no hurries." He had no clue of what to do completely.

 

I continued to take the Trazodone 50mg since from everything I gathered of information, in my view, I had no choice. I've been taking it for 3 months, If I go cold turkey or even fast taper, it could make me even worse.

 

On the day of Christmas I had to go back to him, I was desperate again, 12/25/2024:

 

I said that I couldn't bear anymore, that I went to sleep last night at 11:30 p.m, took 2.1mg Clonazepam and woke up 1:48 a.m. A bit more than 2 hours of sleep. I said I was still taking Trazodone, and if Paroxetine would be effective it would take time, that I could not stay in this condition until Paroxetine can work (knowing already that reinstatement isn't guarantee of anything). I go desperate, I say If there's nothing that can put me to sleep I need to be hospitalized.

 

He says: "Good morning, are you okay?

 

Let's do it this way:

 

Trazodone, stop.

Paroxetine CR, take 25mg before going to bed. (after only 4 days of reinstating 12.5mg, which was already a risk)

Quetiapine 25mg, take 1 pill at night before going to bed.

Clonazepam 1.6mg before going to bed."

 

This was my l last conversation with him, I don't to ever see him again.

 

I'm still suffering, today is the 19th day of reinstatement at 12.5mg, a lot of things improved, almost feel no tingling anymore, no electrical shocks, muscle tension decreased alot, burning sensation also almost nothing, but these symptoms come back when I get too little sleep, like today, I still wake up the in the middle of the night as always, 2 times only I was able to go back to sleep, when I wake up, intrusive thoughts and negative feelings start to come, I try to stop them but it's hard, sometimes when I think about other things I feel my mind and body start to relax and when I'm almost falling asleep again, my heart races and my chest burns, I start to think again and this is an endless cycle. In the morning is the worst part, I still cry a lot, I wish my life back, I was happy and in a matter of 3 months my life became hell. These last 2 days were strange, I continue to not sleep well but I feel energized, no more heavy breathing even though I don't sleep, the Clonazepam seems not be making much effect anymore, is it because of this energized feeling? Even though I don't sleep I sometimes feel 'ok', this isn't possible, today I slept 3 hours, got up very tired but the tiredness get better after but my body is tired, the muscles ache a bit, took 0.5mg clonazepam for symptoms I was feeling burning, tingling (not so much like before), but almost had a panic attack, this thing about not sleeping is affecting everything in me.

 

I thought about updosing, but I fear I might have a bad reaction and make things worse. I'm unemployed, 31 years old, about to turn 32, and I have almost no support except for my mother, but she also takes antidepressants, has problems real complicated problems with my siblings, I don't want to put alot of burden on her, also tried to explain everything that I've learned here, so I could have someone to talk about this, that understands it, but she isn't much about these things, she only got interested when I said about the chemical imbalance theory, and she said that she heard that her entire life, so was it a lie? she said. She manifested the will to get off psychiatric drugs, because she never felt the same, she was happier before she said, and that broke my heart, because I want to be good to help her. I can't be unemployed, I don't know, I'm typing too much, sorry for that. I'm crying right now.

 

I'm sorry for the huge introduction, sorry for my english if it's not so good, and thank you all for making this community and all the information in it. I'm sorry, I feel so hopeless. I used to believe in the medical system, in science, well, it seems that big pharma can do whatever they want, these drugs are around for decades, it had to take a doctor to suffer all people have suffered to conduct studies and debunk the lies.

 

I attached the annotation I tried to do from my days since new year, I have no strength, so I did what I could.

 

Hope everyone of you that is suffering is getting better each day.

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:29 PM by Emonda
Name to title - attachment removed

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  You have had quite a rollercoaster ride over the past several years.  I'm very glad you found us, and glad that you have already done some research on our site and other places.  Let me give you some basic information, and then some advice to your situation. It's important for you to read the links that I supply, so you can understand how these drugs work, and what they do to our brains.  

 

Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

You have done many drug changes over the past several years.  Therefore, your nervous system is probably in a destabilized and hypersensitive state.  I'm very glad that the reinstatement of 12.5 mg of paroxetine has given you some improvement.  

 

My advice to you is to stay at the paroxetine CR 12.5 mg, the trazodone CR 50 mg, and the clonazepam 2.7 mg.  I suggest you hold on these doses of drugs.  Your nervous system seems to be very confused right now from all the drug changes.  When this is the case, it is very important not to make any more drug changes, and further confuse and destabilize the nervous system.   As you hold, your nervous system should gradually improve.  However, there will be ups and downs. (windows and waves).  This means that some days you will feel better, and some worse.  You don't want to react to this, and make yet another change in your dose, and further confuse your brain.  It's important to hold steady and your drug doses.  Eventually, your symptoms should very slowly improve.  I would suggest you stay at these dosages for a long time, as in at least 6 months to a year or even longer, until your nervous system stabilizes.  Then, you can begin a very slow and gradual taper off of the paroxetine first.  

 

It is also important to learn skills for coping with the withdrawal symptoms.  Here are some links to give you coping techniques.  

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Stability is really important when we are tapering off psych meds.  Please read the link about stability:

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

Please be reassured that you can eventually heal and get off of these drugs.  The keys are time, and patience.  This is a very slow process, but if you are very cautious, and stop frequent drug changes, you will eventually get better.  

[ErickG]

Hi @getofflex

 

Thanks for your reply and all the explanations and links to read.

 

I have already read most of the links you provided, just didn't get futher into Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

I bought the Omega 3 (haven't arrived yet) and Melatonin, even though the Melatonin isn't an unanimity, it's 0.21mg fast-extended-release (I started taking yesterday), I'm still to buy Magnesium.

 

I understand the purpose of the community, but I might live in a totally different reality than most of you.

 

The problem for me, is that I live in a country where compounding pharmacys can't even be trusted making an antidepressant formulation, to help me taper off. Clinicians here also don't recommend because of that, most of it, it not all, can't be trusted, it's not even a practice here to give patients prescription to formulate liquid or low dose tablets formulation. I have searched for regular Paroxetine pills, because I read Tips for tapering off paroxetine (Paxil, Seroxat), and it's probably going to be my only option into tapering in the future - maybe -, switching to regular Paroxetine pills, where I can crush it and weight on scale that I already bought and am waiting to arrive. I watched the video where a person does that way of tapering, but I think it was a benzo, weighing the powder inside a capsule. Another problem is that the manufacturer of the original formula of Paroxetine CR here in my country doesn't manufacture regular Paroxetine (they manufacture generic formula, but still coated pills), so I would have only one option of a generic formula made by another manufacturer. Actually, I don't even think there's regular Paroxetine that can be crushed here, they are all with coating, so from what I understood, also can't be crushed.

 

The greatest problem is I'm in a lot of pressure since last year, I ended up losing my job because of withdrawal, like I said I have almost no support, my mother has a lot on her shoulders and won't be able to help me aside from buying food and maybe the meds, I won't be able to continue to buy supplements or any other thing that I might need to help me with the proccess because I'm speding the last money I have. There is a friend of mine that is going to help me get a job this year, a very much better job than the one I was before, but, working? the way I am now? Sleeping 3 hours, is impossible. My mood is extremely low, especially when I wake up.

 

I know it's only 20 days of reinstatement of 12.5mg and that it takes more for the drug to make full effect and maybe It can help me have an improvement soon after a few months, but that is uncertain. If only I had no worries in life (aside from the worries of withdrawal), I could definitely cope, In fact, I'm getting used to have almost no sleep already, after 3 weeks, it has its ups and downs, getting insufficient sleep makes anxiety and the other symptoms come back, mostly these days I cry a lot because I'm feeling awful and emotionally unstable.

 

Also, I can't be on Clonazepam 2.7mg forever, It will eventually reach tolerance and I would enter forced withdrawl. I've been lowering the dose already, yesterday I took 2.5mg, today I'm taking 2.5mg still, and I think I'm going to be tapering it to the lowest I can go. This will probably worsen my condition, because the Clonazepam is what makes me fall asleep and also stay asleep for a while. I fear that my sleep will get worse once I go down on Clonazepam.

 

From what I have learned here, there's nothing that can substiantially improve symptoms so that I can be functional, just time.

 

Below is a text I was writing before my introduction was approved and replied by you:

 

"I have been thinking about start updosing tomorrow after 20 days of reinstatement of 12.5mg Paroxetine.

 

It seems to be working. I didn't feel any strong adverse effects in these 20 days except for heightened anxiety, diarrhea and nausea, which for a couple of days after reinstatement were more intense, so I guess this was adverse effects, overlapping with withdrawal. I have to try this, I know there's the risk of not working as it used to work, there's the risk of my brain be sensitized and not able to accept higher doses, and that I'll be left with more med to taper in the future. This is definitely not the time for me to be out of meds anyway and now I'll have 3 psychiatric drugs to taper thanks to my doctor.

 

I even suspect that I had a relapse, because 95% of the symptoms were the same and my life wasn't balanced. I couldn't do CBT throughout these years, I didn't fix my social life, never had one, lots of problems in my life, and the only thing I included in my routine was walking and cycling everyday and if there's a chance that going back to my original dose can work and give me back more sleep I think it's worth by now.

 

I can't be like this for months or years, I have to try to get back my life by reinstating the full dose. I know this is poison, I watched a Horowitz interview where he said he had to go back on his original dose, that also these drugs has lots of side effects while you're using them and long term use is even worse.

 

He could do it the right way, mg by mg, unfortunately I live in a third world country, where information and practice arrive here after ages, tried to look for a compounding pharmacy here so that I could order a liquid formulation but there isn't one that can be trusted, most clinicians here don't recommend to formulate because of this. I do not have a way to start so low, like 1 mg, I can only try to quarter the tablet and start taking quarters, which I would weigh on the mg scale I bought on the internet but will take long to arrive.

 

From what I understood reading the topics, the more time passes the more is difficult for reinstatement to work, so I guess I have to decide If I go back to original dose, or If I stay on 12.5mg and wait to see If that's going to be enough, but by then time will have passed, months probably until I see the full effect of 12.5mg, and if it's not enough, then going up to 25mg is less likely to work, am I wrong? If not, I think this is the only way for me."

 

I know that you and all experienced people here might see this a lot, a desperate person writing a desperate text. Sorry, it's just that my reality might be different. I don't know what to do now.

 

I'll read through the topics of how to cope with different symptoms. Almost all other most important topics I have already read several times these past weeks, Dr. Mark Horowitz lots of interviews also make it clear what the drugs do to our brains, what happens when we stop taking the drug cold turkey or fast taper and how to taper off them, this community knew it all before, what a world we live in.

 

I'm really grateful to have found this community, I learned a lot, in the first few days this reality got me scared, I'm still a bit, but not so much anymore.

 

I've read a lot of stories here, some bad ones and some awesome recovery success stories. Thanks again for spending time of your life dedicating to be here as a volunteer, to help people, replying to me, and to all others too. It means a lot.

[getofflex]

There is no need to tag me, as I'm following your thread and will receive notifications when you post.  I may not be able to respond right away, so please be patient.  Please try to take things one step at a time, and not worry over how you are going to taper the paroxetine in the future.  As I said before, it is very important to stop making drug changes for now.  Your system is already very destabilized, as you are only getting 3 hours of sleep.  The last thing it needs is yet more tapering, or updosing.  Your system desperately needs stability!  Otherwise you will just make your problems even worse.  You do NOT want to crash your nervous system by doing more tapering and drug changes now.  

 

21 hours ago, ErickG said:

Also, I can't be on Clonazepam 2.7mg forever, It will eventually reach tolerance and I would enter forced withdrawl.

It's unclear to me from your drug signature how long you have been on the Clonazepam.  You don't mention it in the signature box until you talk about tapering it.  Please add a line that shows when you started this, and what dose.  Your posts are very lengthy, and it is quite difficult for me to wade through all of it trying to find the information.  If you have been on clonazepam over 4 weeks, it is likely you have already reached tolerance. You definitely do not want to try to taper off clonazepam at this time.  You would probably lose what little sleep you do have, and that is a very bad idea.  

 

21 hours ago, ErickG said:

"I have been thinking about start updosing tomorrow after 20 days of reinstatement of 12.5mg Paroxetine.

If it were me, I would not do this.

 

21 hours ago, ErickG said:

I have to try to get back my life by reinstating the full dose.

 When it comes to reinstatement, less is more.  It can take several months for a reinstatement to fully take effect.  Again, I would not advise that you reinstate the full dose.  There is a risk of kindling, which is an adverse reaction to the drug due to the fact that your nervous system is now hypersensitive.  This means a risk of making you feel worse, not better.  Just because Horowitz went on his original dose, does not mean that you should.  Each and every case is unique.  In fact, Horowitz said that it can take a couple of months for a reinstatement to have full effect.  As I said before, I suggest you stay on 12.5 mg paroxetine for a while. 

 

Once again, my advice to you is to stay at the paroxetine CR 12.5 mg, the trazodone CR 50 mg, and the clonazepam 2.7 mg.  I suggest you hold on these doses of drugs.

 

As far as how to reduce the paroxetine once you get to that point, you can grind the tablets into a powder, or even make your own liquid.  This link explains how.  But, let's not worry about that just yet.  

 

Tips for Tapering Paroxetine

 

 

 

[Emonda]

Dear ErickG

I'm sorry you're not feeling great.

 

Can you do me a favour and post any specific questions you have concisely, in bullet form.

 

There is a lot of text above, and the first post had almost no spacing, which makes it hard to digest.

 

If your posts are clear and concise, more people are likely to try and assist.

 

Many thanks, Emonda

(no need to tag me, I will follow your post for a little while)

[ErickG]

Hi, geto.

 

1 hour ago, getofflex said:

There is no need to tag me

 

Sorry for tagging you, I didn't mean to bother. My intention was to refer directly to you to thank you for your reply. I won't do anymore.

 

1 hour ago, getofflex said:

It's unclear to me from your drug signature how long you have been on the Clonazepam.

 

I mentioned it in my introduction but I did a huge introduction with no spaces and you couldn't have find the information you needed because of that, sorry for that.

 

I also couldn't put this in my signature because it was too lengthy, "too many lines". I'll remove about the Fluoxetine part, I don't think it's relevant to my situation from the last 3 years.

 

I've been on Clonazepam since the beginning. To be able to cope with the symptoms and to sleep when my anxiety and panic attacks started.

 

Basically 3 years, the same time I've been on Paroxetine. I never could stop it. In the beginning I used to take between 0.5mg to 2mg to cope with the symptoms and to sleep.

 

So I took for months since Fluoxetine days until I switched to Paroxetine and it started making effect, after 3 or 4 months. Then I started noticing I needed less. At this stage, I was already addicted.

 

Even after Paroxetine took effect and left me with almost no symptoms, I would still have anxiety spikes here and there, so I continued taking Clonazepam.

 

I varied between 0.8mg to 1mg to 1.5mg (1.5mg was on few occasions) for several months, my symptoms started to improve more when I started to take the Paroxetine everyday, without missing a dose for a day or two, and at the same time of the day.

 

This last year of 2024, I had reached my lowest dose on Clonazepam, I was taking 0.6mg everyday. Sometimes I would go up to 1mg on very few occasions, when I started to notice 0.6mg wasn't doing much effect anymore, then my body would calm next day and I would go back 0.6mg for several days or weeks.

 

Now, I was on 2.7mg, and settled in 2.5mg since the last two days. My understading is that my brain is very used to the drug already, from the years of use, that's why I'm trying to lower the dose, so that If I need to updose in critical moment, my brain would be less used to it. Am I saying something stupid?

 

• Would you recommend another approach in this situation?

 

2 hours ago, getofflex said:

Your posts are very lengthy, and it is quite difficult for me to wade through all of it trying to find the information.

 

Sorry for that, I will try not to make this mistake again. I'll try to be as direct as I can and provide the important information.

 

2 hours ago, getofflex said:

 There is a risk of kindling, which is an adverse reaction to the drug due to the fact that your nervous system is now hypersensitive.  This means a risk of making you feel worse, not better

 

• Does this risk still exists even after 21 days of reinstatement? Can I have a bad reaction in the future?

 

2 hours ago, getofflex said:

As far as how to reduce the paroxetine once you get to that point, you can grind the tablets into a powder, or even make your own liquid.  This link explains how.  But, let's not worry about that just yet.  

 

Tips for Tapering Paroxetine

 

I read multiple times, but my mind is not working very good, concentration is lacking. It says CR tablets can be cutted and cannot be make into liquid. I crushed one just now, and it seems to work.

 

3 hours ago, getofflex said:

When it comes to reinstatement, less is more.  It can take several months for a reinstatement to fully take effect

 

I thought about full dose reinstatement because I read that when you do a fast taper like I did, it's hard to know what was the last stable dose, so I'm afraid 12.5mg might not be the last stable dose for me and thus I thought of going back to the original dose to guarantee that.

 

 

2 hours ago, getofflex said:

Once again, my advice to you is to stay at the paroxetine CR 12.5 mg, the trazodone CR 50 mg, and the clonazepam 2.7 mg.  I suggest you hold on these doses of drugs.

 

I will take your advice. I won't change anything. Thanks for reinforcing it. It's just because I'm very much afraid and confused.

 

Thanks for assisting me.

Please let me know If there's still something that I need to improve in my communication or what I'm doing wrong.

[ErickG]

3 hours ago, Emonda said:

Dear ErickG

I'm sorry you're not feeling great.

 

Can you do me a favour and post any specific questions you have concisely, in bullet form.

 

There is a lot of text above, and the first post had almost no spacing, which makes it hard to digest.

 

If your posts are clear and concise, more people are likely to try and assist.

 

Many thanks, Emonda

(no need to tag me, I will follow your post for a little while)

 

Hi Emonda,

 

3 hours ago, Emonda said:

Can you do me a favour and post any specific questions you have concisely, in bullet form.

 

Yes, I will do it.

 

3 hours ago, Emonda said:

There is a lot of text above, and the first post had almost no spacing, which makes it hard to digest.

 

I understand, I will try to be calm and as direct as I can and provide the useful information.

 

3 hours ago, Emonda said:

If your posts are clear and concise, more people are likely to try and assist.

 

• I read about the 3KIS. It says do not add more than one drug or supplement at a time. I started taking Melatonin 0.21mg, today is the third day, I think it may be helping a bit. The Omega 3 arrived just today, can I start taking it or is it better to wait 1-4 weeks before adding another supplement? I know 3KIS already addresses it but I was thinking because fish oil is the most recommended supplement around here, and seems to be the safest one.
• Do you know of anyone sleeping 3 hours or a bit more to be able to work?

 

Thanks for being here.

 

[Emonda]

9 hours ago, ErickG said:

I think it may be helping a bit.

 

Good to hear. Read the directions on the bottle. My bottle says to take for no longer than 2 months, then take a break for 2 weeks (my bottle is not currently in front of me, so I am going from memory).

 

9 hours ago, ErickG said:

The Omega 3 arrived just today,

 

Start with a small amount and see how you go.

 

9 hours ago, ErickG said:

Do you know of anyone sleeping 3 hours or a bit more to be able to work?

 

I do know we all struggle with sleep.

 

I sleep for 3 hours, then wake up ready to go at 1am!

 

Sometimes I'll take melatonin and drift off to sleep for another 3 hours...I work full time.

 

Just a comment with the dates in your signature. It would be better to write, say Aug 5, rather than 8/5/24. Where I live, I'd read 8/5/25 as 8 May 24. It's best to avoid confusion.

 

👍