Tweeky: When will it end?

[Tweeky]

Thank you in advance so much for this site and to all those who might take the time to help.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.

 

In 2007 I was prescribed 225mg Effexor for depression.  The drug worked great!  I had tons of energy (especially in the beginning) and felt good.  If however, I forgot to take the drug at the usual time, within a couple hours, I knew - sensations of dizziness and nausea started.

 

In Dec. 2010 I wanted to go off the drug.  I thought I went off very slowly – one time release bobble at a time each day.  Yes, my darling husband counted them out!  Even so, over the next few months I lived with dizziness and nausea which eventually ceased.  What remained was the worst depression I had ever experienced- wanting to die, crying much of the time, no interest of joy in anything,   By May 2011I was back on drugs, Cymbalta this time, hoping the withdrawal symptoms wouldn't be so bad. 

 

The Cymbalta (60-90mg) worked too but not as well as Effexor.  Two years later, I read Robert Whitaker’s book, Anatomy of an Epidemic.  It scared the hell out of me and I started to slowly go off Cymbalta (Didn’t know about this site so I did as my doctor suggested and I believe it was all over in about a month of so)  Withdrawal symptoms of dizziness and nausea lasted a few months but again, the horrible depression descended, immediately after going off the drugs.

 

I have been off drugs for a year now and my depression just seems to be getting worse.  I don’t feel like I have had any windows of wellness, just different depth waves of despair.  It seems impossible not to believe that the "anti-depressants"  caused this to happen.  How can it be that immediately after going off the drugs I am experiencing the most severe and long lasting symptoms of depression ever.  But it has been a year with no signs of getter better.  I am desperate but I have no idea what to do.   Doctors just want me to go back on drugs. I am in the depths of despair.  I’ve been reading tons on this site but haven’t read specifically about anyone who is just in deep depression after a year.  I’m hoping someone can give me hope and tell me they made it through to the other side and what to do.

 

Thank you again!!!!!

 

 

 

 

[alex]

Hello Tweeky;unfortunately, 1 year off from powerful drugs like Effexor and Cimbalta is not much...My first 12-14 months were absolute hell.

I have been off for 22 months, and I've only seen important relief in the last 5-6 months.

Depression, anxiety, and insomnia are very common symptoms in w/d.

The good news is that it gets better.Very SLOWLY though.

My advice is to hang in there, take care of yourself, have faith that it will end, and the most important:DON't go back on psy drugs!

 

 Sending healing vibes all the way from tropical CR to Canada.

[Rhiannon]

I have to agree, from the people I've followed who CT'd off ADs, with histories similar to yours, it's generally more than a year before they start to feel noticeably better. 

 

My best guess would be that somewhere between 18 months and two years you'll start to notice some real improvement, and over another year or so that will accelerate. However, everyone's different, there are no guarantees.

 

But given your history I'm confident that you WILL recover if you just hang in there.

[Rhiannon]

Also, please start keeping a journal for yourself, making an entry every one to four days or so, ranking your symptoms on a scale of 1 to 5 or so. Note any changes in diet or activity or stress levels. Over time you will see patterns emerge, plus you will see that you actually do have better days even though sometimes it feels like you never do. Our brains in withdrawal are not very good at keeping accurate track of how we've been doing.

 

And for the depression, if possible, there are some lifestyle things that can help (maybe or maybe not since this is drug induced depression, but worth a try): Exercise, of course, daily; exposure to sunlight if you're not too sensitive to it; being in friendly social environments; and good diet (you may want to experiment a bit as the typical "healthy diet" sometimes isn't what we need in withdrawal, but for sure you can't go wrong with avoiding sugar, white flour/rice etc, caffeine.)

[Jemima]

As Alex and Rhi said, deep depression is very common in the early stages of withdrawal, which can go on for more than a year. It took me about two and a half years to mostly get over a too-fast taper off of Lexapro. I often experienced depression for no reason at all.  We call this neuro-emotion. You might find this topic interesting reading: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/137-neuro-emotion/?hl=neuro-emotion. I often read over it when I was feeling despair and it helped to reassure me that the black feelings were a common, if scary, symptom of psychiatric drug withdrawal rather than a symptom of emotional disturbance.

 

What happens when you take an antidepressant is that it both creates and destroys serotonin receptors in the brain and body, thus creating an artificial situation.  (This is also why it can take upwards of three weeks for an antidepressant to take effect.) When you quit taking the drug, especially if you do so quickly, your brain is left without the chemical support upon which these changes depend, and the brain goes floundering around trying to right itself.  This is why we recommend tapering off at no more than 10% of the current dose and holding for at least a month.

 

At a year out, reinstating Cymbalta or taking any other psychiatric drug will probably make you feel a lot worse.  It may not seem so, but your brain has already healed some of those artificial structures. Some of the really bad feelings in withdrawal are actually due to this healing process.

 

Cymbalta is also a new and different kind of drug, part Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor and part Selective Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor and we have little experience with the combination of these two drug types.  That doesn't mean it's any worse than the others; we just don't have very many histories of people who have been on Cymbalta and got off or are getting off.

 

Do browse through our 'Symptoms and self-care' discussion.  You'll find lots of non-drug ways to feel a bit better detailed there.

 

Welcome to the forum, Tweeky. You'll find lots of solid information and friendly support here.

[Tweeky]

Thank you so much to each of you for giving me hope.  It just sounds like relief is still so far out and it is so hard to get through today.  To imagine feeling this way for another year seems too much to bear.

 

First off, I consider myself a techno-single celled animal when it comes to computers.  This is the first forum I have ever become a part of and I don't really know what I am doing.  So just let me know if I'm doing things terribly wrong.

 

Alex, you said "powerful drugs like Effexor and Cymbalta."  Are they more "powerful" than others?

 

Rhi, thank you for suggesting I keep a journal.  My husband has been telling me to do that and I have resisted.  Now I must start.  I just wish I could see some improvement over the course of this year.  Right now, my depression is worse than it has been the whole year so it feels like I am sliding deeper into the hole.  Instead of saying, "I wish I would just die," over and over, I am trying to say, "I will get well, I will get well…."  Certainly stress is at a very high level in my life at this time, and perhaps that is why it is so bad.

 

Re diet, we are vegetarian and now my husband (a voracious reader of health info) has latched onto the book Grain Brain by Perlmutter so he wants us to go off all sugar, gluten and carbs.  It all seems so overwhelming and drastic to me.  I used to know what to cook, now I can't even do that.  

 

Rhi, when you say, given your history, I'm confident you will recover.  I love hearing that but what is it about my history that makes you confident.  

 

Jemima, thank you for reinforcing that going back on drugs is not a good idea.  I don't want to and can't imagine doing so but at the same time when doctors and friends seem almost dismissive, treating me as though I must want to feel this way because if I just went on drugs all would be fine again so why resist.  I must be crazy, I feel they think.  And it is so hard to try to explain.  Fortunately, my husband is very loving and supportive.  

 

So if I want to ask about self-care ideas, should I go to that area?  Heck I don't even know the right terminology!

 

Is talk therapy helpful?  Someone said B12, which I'm taking because I'm vegetarian, isn't a good idea.  Why is that?  

Has anyone tried transcranial magnetic stimulation - recommended by a therapist as an alternative to drugs. 

 

Oh, I just feel like I could go on and on and I feel guilty taking my your time and I don't feel like I have anything to offer anyone.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and respond.  I am very grateful.

 

 

[areyouthere]

Hi and welcome. Here is a link to the self help thread. There are many good suggestions there. 

 

As you know, stress under any circumstances can make daily activities more challenging but when we are trying to heal from these drugs it can make it the withdrawal symptoms ( like depression or low moods) just that more difficult to deal with.

 

Trying natural things to relieve the stress is healthy for anybody but especially important for those of us trying to heal our brains.

 

Everyone is different for what works for them and there are many ideas in the thread.

 

Welcome and I'm glad that you found us!

 

RU

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Tweaky.

 

If you've been taking B12 for a while and have no ill effects, it's a good idea, given you are vegetarian. It can be activating when people start it up while experiencing withdrawal.

 

How would you describe your "depression"?

[Addax]

Hi Tweaky. I'm a relatively new member here, and I seem to have developed a propensity for chiming in... so here I am.

 

First, welcome!

 

You had asked if talk therapy was helpful.

 

I'm an advocate of it and would have to say, yes, it can be very helpful. In my humble opinion Cognitive Behavior Therapy is especially good for examining, working through and helping to change some of the distortion in thinking that accompanies (and can perpetuate) depression, as well as anxiety and the like.

 

There are other types of talk therapy of course, but I mention CBT because it has a pretty decent track record in the treatment of depression.

 

Again, welcome to SA.

[Tweeky]

"How would I describe my depression?"  

- a zillion times worse than anything I ever felt  before I went on AD (I have suffered short term mild to moderate depression off ad on throughout my life and have a family history of it too.)

-What is very scary is that it feels like it is getting worse and worse.  I am more depressed now than I was when I first went off of the AD last May for the 2nd time - even though it has been bad.  So, if I have had times of depression throughout my life, is it not possible that I now have a combination of WD syndrome + new depression?  I haven't read anyone else mention this.

- What is worse is that now I don't want to do anything.  If I had the list of symptoms of depression, I'm sure I could tick off every one - except, I do sleep just fine.  In fact, that's all I really want to do is sleep.  Night is my favourite time of the day.  It means it is over and it is supposed to be time to relax…it is OK not to do anything.  I don't have to feel so guilty at night.  But when I wake up with only a few hours before it is time to get up, the panic starts to rise.  I get worried and anxious.  Another day of a million things to do, doing next to none of them, feeling bad, being mocked by the beautiful weather telling me I should be out there enjoying the Nature I love - but I just want it too be night again.  I can't wait for the darkness to come….and the days just keep getting longer.  Everyone loves it but me.

 

Overwhelmed with everything.  Can't make decisions.  No joy, no happiness, feelings of despair, like I can't, don't want to keep living like this, what is the point, feeling useless because I'm not do ing what I need to do, don't want to talk to friends, don't answer the phone, can hardly respond to e-mails.  I don't know what to say.  Gee, I'm feeling like I don't want to live.  How are you doing?

 

I'm not sure if this is really answering the question.  I feel like a winer.  Everyone here is struggling with horrible feelings and experiences so….I feel bad even taking up anyone's time…I don't know.  I don't know anything.  

 

But thanks so much to whoever is reading.  It is a comfort to express my feelings to others who can really understand but I do wish we could meet in a room together and talk and share and hug.  

 

Good night!

[Tweeky]

Thanks for the recommendation of CBT.  The trouble is, the therapists are $120 to $150 an hour.  So expensive!!!!!!  Who can afford this at all let alone for any length of time?

[mammaP]

Dear Tweeky, you are describing withdrawal so accurately!  Withdrawal depression can be so much worse than

the depression that led to taking anti depressants in my experience.  I know that it is such a huge effort to do

things but do try and get outside for a little while each day. Just a 10 minute stroll to start, you could even time it,

walk for 5 minutes and then walk back again. If the sun is shining all the better, if it's raining take a brolly.

There's something soothing about rain on an umbrella! Once you get out there you could easily find yourself

wanting to go further. Taking that first step out of the door is hardest. You can build up the time minute by minute.

 

It is very important to keep moving, even indoors, set a timer so that you have to get up and move for a few minutes

every hour or so. I am quite disabled and have to do this so my joints don't seize but it helps more than just my joints,

it helps clear my brain if I am out in the fresh air. I do have to really push myself sometimes or a week can go by without

leaving the house   .   There are some sites suggested here for online CBT and help. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

 

This particularly helped me,  there are work sheets you can print off at home but I found I couldn't get my brain around 

all those sheets, maybe your husband can help with that. http://www.llttf.com/

 

You will get a window when you feel better, it might be a fleeting moment, or a few days, but when you do get one,

hold on to that memory because you will get many more that will last longer and longer. 

[mlrp]

Hi Tweeky,

 

I agree with everything the wise MammaP has written, and I do very much understand how bad the depression can now be. It's like nothing I ever had before the ADs (grrrr....!). I am definitely going to try a measurable way of tracking symptoms, like a graph or worksheet. Right now the days - good, bad , and everything in between - all kind of blend together.

 

Mostly just wanted you to know you are not alone, and here's a cyber hug! We are in the right place for comfort and support leading to eventual recovery.

[Jemima]

Thank you so much to each of you for giving me hope.  It just sounds like relief is still so far out and it is so hard to get through today.  To imagine feeling this way for another year seems too much to bear....

 

 

So if I want to ask about self-care ideas, should I go to that area?  Heck I don't even know the right terminology!

 

 

You won't feel the same way for another year, although it may take that long or longer to fully recover. The really severe withdrawal symptoms will gradually lessen over time. This is why Rhi suggested journaling, so you can look back and see how far you've come.  I wish I had done that, but even reading my own Intro thread and seeing that I'd made some progress helped to encourage me along the way.

 

We have a discussion area called 'Symptoms and self-care' that contains lots of ideas for non-drug help with withdrawal. Click on the Forums tab at the upper left and a list of all the forums should come up.

 

Hang in there; better days are coming.