Jump to content
SurvivingAntidepressants.org is temporarily closed to new registrations until 1 April ×

Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) for anxiety, depression, withdrawal symptoms, insomnia


Nadia

Recommended Posts

"It seems like it is being used like meds as a first resort when perhaps the patient has an underlying issue that is causing the problem.

Now I do realize that CBT doesn't have dangerous med side effects but it still has the effect of being totally demoralizing by pathologizing a patient with a psychological issue for what may be a correctable medical issue."

 

Exactly! I just drew a parallel on another thread about CBT and antidepressants both masking underlying issues, medical and psychological.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator Emeritus

"It seems like it is being used like meds as a first resort when perhaps the patient has an underlying issue that is causing the problem.

Now I do realize that CBT doesn't have dangerous med side effects but it still has the effect of being totally demoralizing by pathologizing a patient with a psychological issue for what may be a correctable medical issue."

 

Exactly! I just drew a parallel on another thread about CBT and antidepressants both masking underlying issues, medical and psychological.

 

CBT can also mask psychological issues which can be effectively addressed (I'd stop short of using the term correctable here). Too often we think we need to to 'accept what cannot be changed'... there is alot we can change, but not if we think otherwise.. ~S

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Circling back to CS's original point regarding sleep issues... it seems that this would be primarily physiological/drug interference of sleep architectures and loss of dream states which are (I thought) how we un/subconsciously work out life issues. Or did I just dream that? ;)

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator Emeritus

Circling back to CS's original point regarding sleep issues... it seems that this would be primarily physiological/drug interference of sleep architectures and loss of dream states which are (I thought) how we un/subconsciously work out life issues. Or did I just dream that? ;)

 

Both are involved Barb, but as with any problem, we bring ourselves so one needs to consider both. Speaking for myself here, the way I deal with withdrawal is also the way I deal with the larger world. When I look to causes, it is necessary for me to look at both. Each one in isolation would leave the other wanting.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

"It seems like it is being used like meds as a first resort when perhaps the patient has an underlying issue that is causing the problem.

Now I do realize that CBT doesn't have dangerous med side effects but it still has the effect of being totally demoralizing by pathologizing a patient with a psychological issue for what may be a correctable medical issue."

 

Gu

 

Exactly! I just drew a parallel on another thread about CBT and antidepressants both masking underlying issues, medical and psychological.

 

CBT can also mask psychological issues which can be effectively addressed (I'd stop short of using the term correctable here). Too often we think we need to to 'accept what cannot be changed'... there is alot we can change, but not if we think otherwise.. ~S

 

Hi Schuyler,

 

Sorry I am late in responding.

 

I like the point you made. What comes to mind is CBT for example would teach you to reframe the situation regarding someone who is treating you like crap when actually there is alot you could do to change the situation.

 

I am not saying that is always the case but my concern is that CBT would close off possible options.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excellent statement, CS!

 

I'm sorry to keep harping on the dangers of CBT, but - for those of us who have learned to UNDERreact and make excuses for others' wrong behavior - I believe CBT is truly harmful.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator Emeritus

Exactly! I just drew a parallel on another thread about CBT and antidepressants both masking underlying issues, medical and psychological.

 

CBT can also mask psychological issues which can be effectively addressed (I'd stop short of using the term correctable here). Too often we think we need to to 'accept what cannot be changed'... there is alot we can change, but not if we think otherwise.

What comes to mind is CBT for example would teach you to reframe the situation regarding someone who is treating you like crap when actually there is alot you could do to change the situation.

I am not saying that is always the case but my concern is that CBT would close off possible options.

 

Yes, reframing is a type of CBT. A person who baits people into 'treating me like crap' by altering the way they think about a situation might be missing the reason they tend to get into this sort of fix repeatedly. Depth work is recommended when personality patterns are the underlying factor. There are a number of CBT strategies that seek to identify underlying issues, but unless the past is addressed it still comes down to layering one set of cognitions on top of another ~S

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator Emeritus

It reminds me of that saying - when all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

Ive never had a medical practitioner of any kind say to me, I think you need a screw driver rather than my hammer

They say I'm not sure whats going on here but come closer and I will give that invisible nail a whack.

 

I sympathize, simple mindedness and severe sleep deprivation do not go well together

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excellent statement, CS!

 

I'm sorry to keep harping on the dangers of CBT, but - for those of us who have learned to UNDERreact and make excuses for others' wrong behavior - I believe CBT is truly harmful.

 

Thanks Barb.

 

You don't owe any apologies and I am glad that you do keeping harping on the dangers. I think the danger with any popular movement is that critical thinking goes out by the wayside which I guess is not surprising in this quick fix society.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Exactly! I just drew a parallel on another thread about CBT and antidepressants both masking underlying issues, medical and psychological.

 

CBT can also mask psychological issues which can be effectively addressed (I'd stop short of using the term correctable here). Too often we think we need to to 'accept what cannot be changed'... there is alot we can change, but not if we think otherwise.

What comes to mind is CBT for example would teach you to reframe the situation regarding someone who is treating you like crap when actually there is alot you could do to change the situation.

I am not saying that is always the case but my concern is that CBT would close off possible options.

 

Yes, reframing is a type of CBT. A person who baits people into 'treating me like crap' by altering the way they think about a situation might be missing the reason they tend to get into this sort of fix repeatedly. Depth work is recommended when personality patterns are the underlying factor. There are a number of CBT strategies that seek to identify underlying issues, but unless the past is addressed it still comes down to layering one set of cognitions on top of another ~S

 

Great analysis S.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It reminds me of that saying - when all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

Ive never had a medical practitioner of any kind say to me, I think you need a screw driver rather than my hammer

They say I'm not sure whats going on here but come closer and I will give that invisible nail a whack.

 

I sympathize, simple mindedness and severe sleep deprivation do not go well together

 

Hi Dalsaan,

 

Thanks!

 

Wow, you have experienced medical professionals who admit they don't know what is going on but still want to do the one size fits all treatment. That is scary but I guess isn't too surprising in this quick fix society.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for this topic.

 

I have found that CBT can help with some things but with other areas it doesn’t quite cut the mustard. I also think it can be misused in the wrong hands.

 

I was told to “rationalize” my feelings by someone on a helpline, when I had been unable to do my artwork (something that is very, very important to me) for a long period of time, due to withdrawal. I had just been crying about it. Looking back and considering the situation and what I was going through, my feelings were totally rational, understandable and valid!

 

I would like to say to this woman that I had every right to feel the way I did and that it is important and healthy to have & experience feelings and to grieve loss. No one should be invited to feel guilty or lacking because they feel sad or are brave enough to face up to their feelings.

 

 

I came off Seroxat in August 2005 after a 4 month taper. I was initially prescibed a benzo for several months and then Prozac for 5 years and after that, Seroxat for 3 years and 9 months.

 

"It's like in the great stories Mr.Frodo, the ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end it's only a passing thing this shadow, even darkness must pass. A new day will come, and when the sun shines it'll shine out the clearer."  Samwise Gamgee, Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Would anyone mind if I moved this to the Symptoms forum?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator Emeritus

Would anyone mind if I moved this to the Symptoms forum?

 

:) Not me! And I doubt Compost would mind either. Thanks for asking.

As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule.

 

Requip - 3/16 ZERO  Total time on 25 years.

 

Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.

BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10)  Total time on 25 years.

 

Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section.  "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very much ON TOPIC!

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Hey compost, what do you think? You are the OP (original poster).

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lol!! Don'cha love autocorrect?!

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I wouldn't mind if this was moved. Good idea.

 

 

I came off Seroxat in August 2005 after a 4 month taper. I was initially prescibed a benzo for several months and then Prozac for 5 years and after that, Seroxat for 3 years and 9 months.

 

"It's like in the great stories Mr.Frodo, the ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end it's only a passing thing this shadow, even darkness must pass. A new day will come, and when the sun shines it'll shine out the clearer."  Samwise Gamgee, Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only reason I would think CBT would be good for sleep issues is due to venting to a counselor, getting things up and out and having validation or a listening ear. Purging?

 

EMDR therapy helped to relieve or take the charge out of emotional issues from the past and that helped with sleep. Alot of baggage was unearthed and released.

 

Nikki

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey compost, what do you think? You are the OP (original poster).

 

Ok with me.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only reason I would think CBT would be good for sleep issues is due to venting to a counselor, getting things up and out and having validation or a listening ear. Purging?

 

EMDR therapy helped to relieve or take the charge out of emotional issues from the past and that helped with sleep. Alot of baggage was unearthed and released.

Nikki

 

I just notice your post, Nikki.

 

If CBT worked that way, I'd agree. However, the times I've tried CBT it was quite the opposite - not venting, but "reframing" and minimizing my thoughts. It was the opposite of purging or validation, in my experience. Ive always rationalized and explained away other people's behavior to myself, made excuses for them, didnt give myself permission to be angry.

 

I know ive criticized CBT repeatedly and don't know if it was due to my experiences...? The info Schuyler has posted is consistent with my experience, though.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've shared that I go to Al-Anon meetings which is 12 steps. Going thru the steps is therapy in itself. IN step 4 we do a through self inventory which is shared with a sponsor. It takes months and it is written using several books.

 

I found out where patterns come from along with blocks, character shortcomings, and above all mistaken beliefs.

 

The next step is admitting them to another. What happened for me aside from purging and alot of crying was that the sponsor I had was able to help me see the better part of myself and how I did what I did with the knowledge I had at the time so I could let go of guilt and stop beating myself up.

 

This therapy is free, and speaking one-on-one helps break thru trust and intimacy.

 

I have 6 more steps to go thru.

 

There is another Fellowship - ACA (Adult Children of Alcoholics or just a dysfunctional family). This is where most of the 'stuff' started and the premise is to learn how to reparent. I've only done 4 meetings so far, but I really like it. The opening suggests that when someone shares and cries to let them cry without hugging them, so that they can feel their feelings and to teach us to stop trying to fix others.

 

I have been using the Fellowships as my Therapy ;) It's powerful stuff and financially we all put a dollar in the donation bag and we have breakfast or lunch after meetings :D

 

That's where my therapy is at now B) Would love to do EMDR for am anxiety and will look into it once again......it's expensive

 

Hugs

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Just received an e-mail message from Amazon entitled Top Bargains which included this Book for dummies - forget the title; they re good books. I have the book on the topic by Burns... CGT is very effective. Just thought y'all might find this of interest.

 

http://www.amazon.ca/Cognitive-Behavioural-Therapy-For-Dummies/dp/0470665416/ref=pd_ts_zgc_b_263003011_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&pf_rd_p=1288916542&pf_rd_s=right-4&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=263003011&pf_rd_m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_r=14HHRAPDX6BP1RP2ZMMB

I think! Too much!

Jan. 2009 150 mg. Venlafaxine

2012

5 June 112.5 mg. Venflx

25 June 75 mg. Venflx

8 July Fluox 5ML (0 Venflx)[/b]

10 July aprox. 20 mg Fluoxetine liquid, trouble measuring between 4 - 5 ml, 0 Venflx.

15 July Fluox 5 ML + Vnflx. 10 - 6 grains

24 July Fluox 5ML + 37.5 mg Venflx.

10 Aug Fluox 4.5 ML

13 Aug.Fluox 18 mg liquid; 18 Aug. Fluox 17 mg; 25 Aug. Fluox 16 mg;

2 Sept Fluox 15 mg; 10 Sept Fluox 14 mg; 17 Sept. Fluox 13.6 mg; 29 Sept. Fluox 13 mg.

7 Oct. Fluox 12 mg; 14 Oct. Fluox 11 mg; 21 Oct; Fluox 10 mg; 23 Oct. 9mg; 26 Oct. 8 mg.

21 Nov. 5 mg; 3 Nov. ZERO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

!!!!

 

Why does this book title strike me as odd??

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 10 months later...

Dr. Amen has some good books out. The ANTS chapter in one really made sense to me. It explained why these same negative thought patterns would keep reappearing. I kept thinking that I had resolved that issue and it would pop up again almost word for word. 

 

Jan. 1994 Pamelor

2000 switched to Zoloft 

2011 Zoloft pooped out- Dr. switched me directly to Lexapro15mg -had a horrible 6mths

2013 upped Lexapro to 20 mgs-pooped out

June 2013 Dr. added 150 Wellbutrin to Lexapro.

July 2013 Switched back to Zoloft 100mgs.Was still taking Wellbutrin. Lots of anxiety from the Wellbutrin

July 2013 Started to wean Wellbutrin- off by Sept.

Oct. 2013 added 400 mgs of Neurotin to the Zoloft

Jan 2014 Tapered off of the Zoloft and onto Prozac 30 mgs. Also still taking 400 mgs Neurotin

Feb 2014 Reduced Prozac to 13 mgs. Still taking 400 mgs Neurotin

Aug. 2014 Prozac 13 mgs. Finished with Neurotin. .7 Risperadol

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 10 months later...

 

Although I've had extensive CBT and much success with it, I am currently trying to find a dialectical behavioural therapy (DBT) specialist locally (or via skype). I am attracted by the unorthodox "therapist as ally" approach in this type of therapy even though it is traditionally a treatment for borderline personality disorder.

I definitely found DBT useful for a lot of issues (I was in both individual and group DBT therapy for a couple of years). The mindfulness part, and finding your wise mind and such really helped, as did distress tolerance and tips on dealing with other people. I think I had trouble with some of the details, or how it was implemented in my particular case... maybe it was because it was really focused on preventing self-harm and I wanted to take it further. Oh... and now I remember something else... my therapist NEVER wanted me to talk about anything in the past (even beyond a week), as he said it was useless, but my first therapist had encouraged me to find patterns that went back to my childhood, and I had found that very helpful... so there was a point where I felt like I dead-ended with him. I wanted a bit more of the toolbox approach Bright was talking about...

 

 

I have been going to a DBT therapist and group therapy for over a year.  I find most of the suggestions on the handouts really useless.  The distress tolerance handout is especially ridiculous to me.  Totally unhelpful when one is going through incredibly intense and uncontrollable emotions.  

2005-2008: Effexor; 1/2008 Tapered 3 months, then quit. 7/2008-2009 Reinstated Effexor (crying spells at start of new job.)
2009-3/2013: Switched to Pristiq 50 mg then 100 mg
3/2013: Switched to Lexapro 10mg. Cut down to 5 mg. CT for 2 weeks then reinstated for 6 weeks
8/2013-8/2014: Tapering Lexapro (Lots of withdrawal symptoms)
11/2014 -8/2015: Developed severe insomnia and uncontrollable daily crying spells
12/2014-6/2015: Tried Ambien, Klonopin, Ativan, Lunesta, Sonata, Trazadone, Seroquel, Rameron, Gabapentin - Developed Anxiety disorder, PTSD, and Psychogenic Myoclonus
7/2015-1/2016: Reinstated Lexapro 2 mg (mild improvement, but crying spells still present)

1/2016-5/2017: Lexapro 5 mg ( helped a lot, but poor stress tolerance & depressive episodes)

5/20/2017 - Raised dose to Lexapro 10 mg due to lingering depression(Total of 2 failed tapers & severe PAWS)

9/11/2018 - Present: Still on 10 mg Lexapro and mostly recovered.(Anxiety still triggers Myoclonus.)

10/7/2022 - 20 mg Lexapro (brand only) Plus occasional Klonopin for anxiety and Ambien for insomnia.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...
  • Mentor

Hi Nadia, I've had issues with anxiety for other 30 years, it started when I was around 6. (Fortunately no-one ever tried to medicate me for it, and I refused medication for many years as an adult - instead I've had a range of counselling instead, some of it CBT based. I've used thought challenging very successfully, I used to write them down much as Patience describes but now can usually just do it in my head. However, I found this worked great for obviously silly and unlikely anxious thoughts but not so well for ones that were less silly e.g my husband might have died in a freak accident - not likely, versus now I've had depression and can get anxious easily I'm going to struggle to find a job when I finish my postgraduate studies - quite possible given current ecomomic environment and some peoples predjudices. Just attempting to challenge the second type of thought can leave me locked into a prolonged period of rumination and this doesn't help me at all. Instead I'm using some techniques from ACT - Acceptance Commitment Therapy where there are links to CBT and also mindfulness. Here there is more emphasis on noticing your thoughts come and go and noting them, you can then decide what positive action youu can take right now that might help you. So for example I might start to panic about my husband being late home from work and him being hurt somewhere, I note this as my typical late home work thoughts - I do this one a lot, I quickly run through some more likely explanations e.g. perhaps his train is late. Then I considered some actions I can do to help right now e.g take a few calming breaths, if I haven't heard from him in 30mins text to see where he is. Finally I try to be compassionate to myself for being scared, this last one I'm still very much learning, I have to watch I don't tell myself off instead. A useful book on ACT and anxiety I've found is the wonderfully titled: Things Might Go Terribly , Horribly Wrong : A Guide to Life Liberated from Anxiety( Deckle Edge ) (Paperback ) Kelly Wilson, Troy DuFrene There is also book called The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris about both anxiety and depression. All best, Bright.

Well done.  I now realise I hate Christmas every year, cause my dad suicided two days before Christmas, when I was six.  I now realise I was so stressed at the same age, as my mother when my dad suicided.  Did that twice, two lots of kids... so sure my husband would suicide, how silly???  Yep he used that knowledge to his advantage, the bastard.  Think about your childhood, yes it affects us all, we expect the same to happen to us as our childhood.  My friend stressed so much that she was going to get serious Arthritis, as her mother had... People stressed about having a heart attack at a certain age, as their father had done.

 

 

 

Although I've had extensive CBT and much success with it, I am currently trying to find a dialectical behavioural therapy (DBT) specialist locally (or via skype). I am attracted by the unorthodox "therapist as ally" approach in this type of therapy even though it is traditionally a treatment for borderline personality disorder.

I definitely found DBT useful for a lot of issues (I was in both individual and group DBT therapy for a couple of years). The mindfulness part, and finding your wise mind and such really helped, as did distress tolerance and tips on dealing with other people. I think I had trouble with some of the details, or how it was implemented in my particular case... maybe it was because it was really focused on preventing self-harm and I wanted to take it further. Oh... and now I remember something else... my therapist NEVER wanted me to talk about anything in the past (even beyond a week), as he said it was useless, but my first therapist had encouraged me to find patterns that went back to my childhood, and I had found that very helpful... so there was a point where I felt like I dead-ended with him. I wanted a bit more of the toolbox approach Bright was talking about...

 

 

I have been going to a DBT therapist and group therapy for over a year.  I find most of the suggestions on the handouts really useless.  The distress tolerance handout is especially ridiculous to me.  Totally unhelpful when one is going through incredibly intense and uncontrollable emotions.  

 

What is dbt?

1992 Dothiepin 375mg 8 weeks, exhaustion/depression.  Serotonin syndrome, oh yes!  seizures . Fell pregnant, 3rd baby, Nitrous Oxide, 3 weeks mental hospital pp psychosis. zoloft tegretol.

Feb 1996 ct tegretol, tapered Zoloft 8 weeks. as (unexpectedly)  pregnant. Steven died after 3 days.(Zolft HLHS baby).  98 had run in with Paxil, 2 tablets, 3 weeks taper, survived.
2005..menopause? exhausted again. Zyprexa, mad in three days, fallout....  Seroquel, Effexor, tegretol,   and 8 years of self destruction. Failed taper.
Damn 1/4 valium... nuts again! .fallout, zoloft 100mg  seroquol 400mg mirtazapine 45 mg  tegretol 400mg.  Mid 14 3 month taper. Nov 14 CRASH.
Mid 15 ....   75mg  seroquel,  3 x 1800mg SJW  2 week window end of December followed by 6 week wave
5/2 68mg seroquel, 2.5 x 1800mg SJW::::20/2 61mg seroquel, 2.5 x  SJW::: 26/2 54mg seroquel, 2 x SJW::::21/3 43mg seroquel, 1 x 2700SJW :::: 23/4 36mg seroquel 1 x 1800 SJW
15/5 33mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::   28/5 30mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::;  18/6 25mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::::, 11/7 21mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::, 26/7 18mg seroquel 1/2 SJW:::, 9/8 12mg seroquel :::, 16/8 6mg seroquel ;;;;, 12/9 0 jump.

23/9  3mg.....,  27/9 0mg.  Reinstated, 6mg, then 12mg.............  LIGHTBULB MOMENT,  I have  MTHFR 2x mutations.  CFS and issues with MOULD in my home. So I left home, and working 150km away during week, loving it.

Oh was hard, panic attacks first week, gone now, along with the mould issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...

Hello

 

I'm sorry to post again (only joined yesterday) hope its OK.

 

I just wondered whether anyone else struggles to see any benefit from CBT therapy whilst in the throes of withdrawal.

 

I have been doing CBT and exposure therapy for my original OCD (which has amplified to unbearable levels during withdrawal) and am not seeing any results.

 

Is it possible that being in a withdrawal state affects the efficiency of these type of therapies.

 

Thanks to anyone that replies, I most grateful

Polly xx

Prescribed Lorazepam for OCD/ fear for 6 years.

Reached tolerance at 9mg Per day.

Was taken off using only 30 mg Valium over 6 months. Didn't realise about withdrawal and was prescribed 7 anti depressants (8 week trial on each), 3 antipsychotics and then a reinstatement of 30 mg Valium Per day.

Been drug free for 14 months but believe i am in severe withdrawal from stopping and starting all these medications.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello

 

I'm sorry to post again (only joined yesterday) hope its OK.

 

I just wondered whether anyone else struggles to see any benefit from CBT therapy whilst in the throes of withdrawal.

 

I have been doing CBT and exposure therapy for my original OCD (which has amplified to unbearable levels during withdrawal) and am not seeing any results.

 

Is it possible that being in a withdrawal state affects the efficiency of these type of therapies.

 

Thanks to anyone that replies, I most grateful

Polly xx

Hi Polly,

 

Many people have said it shouldn't but I disagree.  It just seems like when you are in an altered neurological state, therapies like CBT that essentially require you to restate negative thoughts in a positive manner are not going to be helpful.

 

Personally, if I were doing therapy, I would look into ACT which teaches you how to work with your negative thoughts so that they aren't a barrier in your life. It just seems to make more sense to me.

 

But this is just my opinion and maybe I haven't considered everything about CBT.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello compsports

 

Thanks so much for the kind reply, I'm most grateful to you. I will look into that therapy. Thank you

 

Hope your coping OK today

Polly xx

Prescribed Lorazepam for OCD/ fear for 6 years.

Reached tolerance at 9mg Per day.

Was taken off using only 30 mg Valium over 6 months. Didn't realise about withdrawal and was prescribed 7 anti depressants (8 week trial on each), 3 antipsychotics and then a reinstatement of 30 mg Valium Per day.

Been drug free for 14 months but believe i am in severe withdrawal from stopping and starting all these medications.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator Emeritus

Smarty, please make a post in the introductions forum and tell us something about yourself and we can help you

 

Dalsaan

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator Emeritus

Several similar topics merged.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...

I see there's not too much on this site about cognitive behavorial therapy. I am planning on starting it. I was excited about giving it a try. Has anyone seen positive benefits? I have always had a problem with anxiety and have medicated for it so as I'm weaning I am feeling some anxiety and I thought this could help me deal with it. I will really need this even if I am every successful weaning off meds I think. Any thoughts?

Early 1980s 2 mg. vallium prn; Mid-1990s Paxil and 2mg. vallium prn; Somewhere in there Buspar

Early 2000s Sertaline 50 mg. and .25mg Xanax prn 

2008 Sertaline 50 mg but Xanax was increased to .5mg 6 times a day 

2015 Sertaline increased to 100mg. 2 mg. vallium prn and Wellburtrin (only on a few days)

April 2016 Venlafaxine XR 225mg with 50 mg. Zolft  and 10 mg. Vallium 3 times a day as needed

Fall 2017 Venlafaxine upped to 300 mg - 5 mg. Vallium 3 times a day prn; Jan. 2018 Venlafaxine 225mg w/Vallium

April 2018 weaned  to 187.50mg, 150mg, 112.5 mg at 4 to 5 week intervals vallium 3 times a day prn

July 2018 112.5 mg ; July 2018 started SA's 10% guideline w/ 2.5 vallium prn; lost notes  dropped to 89 mg by 10/22; 89 mg 10/29; 10/6 86 mg, 10/13 83 mg; 10/20 - 11/2 updosed to 89mg; 11/3 86 mg; 11/17 80 mg. 11/24 77mg - 12/20 80mg 1/ 20 77 mg venlafaxine; 2/19 75 mg Ven  still taking vallium 2.5 mg morning, after and evening

Simvastatin 40mg. daily with supplements: Magnesium, Omega Fatty Oils, Vitamin D3, Turmeric, Magnesium, 25 mg. to 50 mg. diphendramine for sleep

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator Emeritus

I did a supported online course about 4 years ago and found it very helpful.  I wished I had learned it when I was in my teen years (in late 50s when I did the course).  It's a great life skill to have.

 

Claire Weekes was a doctor who suffered from anxiety.  She learned and taught ways of coping.  

 

There is also a book titled Dare: The New Way to End Anxiety and Stop Panic Attacks Fast by Barry McDonagh which some members have found helpful.

 

These are some things which I found on the web:

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)
 
Resources:  Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg:  Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Chessie. I am going to an LCPC  (licensed counsellor) at my psychiatrist's office for one-on-one instruction. I'm sure it can't hurt. I will look at the web sites you have given me also.

Early 1980s 2 mg. vallium prn; Mid-1990s Paxil and 2mg. vallium prn; Somewhere in there Buspar

Early 2000s Sertaline 50 mg. and .25mg Xanax prn 

2008 Sertaline 50 mg but Xanax was increased to .5mg 6 times a day 

2015 Sertaline increased to 100mg. 2 mg. vallium prn and Wellburtrin (only on a few days)

April 2016 Venlafaxine XR 225mg with 50 mg. Zolft  and 10 mg. Vallium 3 times a day as needed

Fall 2017 Venlafaxine upped to 300 mg - 5 mg. Vallium 3 times a day prn; Jan. 2018 Venlafaxine 225mg w/Vallium

April 2018 weaned  to 187.50mg, 150mg, 112.5 mg at 4 to 5 week intervals vallium 3 times a day prn

July 2018 112.5 mg ; July 2018 started SA's 10% guideline w/ 2.5 vallium prn; lost notes  dropped to 89 mg by 10/22; 89 mg 10/29; 10/6 86 mg, 10/13 83 mg; 10/20 - 11/2 updosed to 89mg; 11/3 86 mg; 11/17 80 mg. 11/24 77mg - 12/20 80mg 1/ 20 77 mg venlafaxine; 2/19 75 mg Ven  still taking vallium 2.5 mg morning, after and evening

Simvastatin 40mg. daily with supplements: Magnesium, Omega Fatty Oils, Vitamin D3, Turmeric, Magnesium, 25 mg. to 50 mg. diphendramine for sleep

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy