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downtongirl: I want to become med-free


downtongirl

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Do you think my body will recognize that it is getting a more stable dosage or that it is a reduction in dosage each time I take it during the day (am & pm).  

 

I am perplexed why I am having he brain zaps while on the medicine when I have only ever had zaps when coming off of an AD.  I am also a little confused because I thought the XR version of effexor meant extended release which enables you to take it once a day which is what I always took it previously and did fine with it.  I did not realize that there were people who took the xr version of effexor 2 x a day.

The zaps are the reason your doctor suspects that you are a fast metabolizer. This means that your body, particularly the liver, eliminates the Effexor faster than happens for most other people.  The easiest solution for a fast metabolizer is to take less more often, so your doc has suggested splitting your dose. Since your doctor is the one who suggested going to 75 mg twice a day, you've got a great resource for your questions about this.

 

Inhale. Exhale. You'll get through this.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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I split my dose in two before I started tapering, as I'd been having increased dizziness towards the late afternoon/evening.  I seem to recall it helped a fair bit, and I didn't get any w/d from splitting the dose (but remember we are all different).  I don't think I even thought that it could be a possibility! 

 

The things I don't like about it are having twice as much weighing to do, and twice as many chances to accidentally miss a dose.  But sometimes you've just got to do it anyway...

 

It's one more sign that our bodies don't like these drugs.  Whenever you decide to begin your next taper, take it really slowly - like starting with even a 5% cut or less - and see how that goes. 

 

I hope that helps you form a decision,

Karen

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

2023 December - Now on 5 micro-beads Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops. Symptoms begin to increase.

2024 April - Updosed to 6 microbeads - immediate increase in symptoms for 4 days. Decreased to 5 microbeads.

 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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Do you think my body will recognize that it is getting a more stable dosage or that it is a reduction in dosage each time I take it during the day (am & pm).  

 

I am perplexed why I am having he brain zaps while on the medicine when I have only ever had zaps when coming off of an AD.  I am also a little confused because I thought the XR version of effexor meant extended release which enables you to take it once a day which is what I always took it previously and did fine with it.  I did not realize that there were people who took the xr version of effexor 2 x a day.

The zaps are the reason your doctor suspects that you are a fast metabolizer. This means that your body, particularly the liver, eliminates the Effexor faster than happens for most other people.  The easiest solution for a fast metabolizer is to take less more often, so your doc has suggested splitting your dose. Since your doctor is the one who suggested going to 75 mg twice a day, you've got a great resource for your questions about this.

 

Inhale. Exhale. You'll get through this.

 

 

Thanks Scallawag....for  your response!  I really appreciate it!  I know no one probably knows but wonder why in all of the times I have taken effexor xr before...like 3 other times and once took it for 10 years I never had the problem of being a fast metabolizer?  Do you know what would make someone become a fast metabolizer?  Also, if splitting the dosages does not help enough with the brain zaps/dizziness, etc. the dr. has suggested maybe switching to a antidepressant with a longer half life...does that sound unreasonable?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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I split my dose in two before I started tapering, as I'd been having increased dizziness towards the late afternoon/evening.  I seem to recall it helped a fair bit, and I didn't get any w/d from splitting the dose (but remember we are all different).  I don't think I even thought that it could be a possibility! 

 

The things I don't like about it are having twice as much weighing to do, and twice as many chances to accidentally miss a dose.  But sometimes you've just got to do it anyway...

 

It's one more sign that our bodies don't like these drugs.  Whenever you decide to begin your next taper, take it really slowly - like starting with even a 5% cut or less - and see how that goes. 

 

I hope that helps you form a decision,

Karen

Hey Karen!  So....do I understand you correctly in that you were taking the XR version of effexor and having some withdrawal symptoms on the once a day dosing even before you started your taper?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks Scallawag....for  your response!  I really appreciate it!  I know no one probably knows but wonder why in all of the times I have taken effexor xr before...like 3 other times and once took it for 10 years I never had the problem of being a fast metabolizer?  Do you know what would make someone become a fast metabolizer?  Also, if splitting the dosages does not help enough with the brain zaps/dizziness, etc. the dr. has suggested maybe switching to a antidepressant with a longer half life...does that sound unreasonable?

I don't know why someone is a fast metabolizer or what would make them one.

 

One version of what your doctor is talking about is the Prozac switch: Prozac switch or bridge. Different doctors manage this different way. Several methods are presented in the linked thread. Discuss with your doctor

  • how he does the crossover to the new drug
  • how he'll  monitor how you're doing (phone calls, weekly appointments, etc.)
  • the number of his patients for whom the switch has been successful
  • the backup plan if the switch doesn't work for you.

You'll then be informed and can make a decision with your doc.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Yes - I was on effexor XR, and began to experience side-effects such as dizziness, depression, exhaustion, queasiness.  I was a bit slow, but eventually worked out that it was time to taper.

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

2023 December - Now on 5 micro-beads Effexor. Minimal symptoms but much more time needed between drops. Symptoms begin to increase.

2024 April - Updosed to 6 microbeads - immediate increase in symptoms for 4 days. Decreased to 5 microbeads.

 'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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So yesterday I did what my dr. suggested and what Karen did and split my dosage of the XR effexor in half with a morning dosage and an evening dosage.  In some ways I think it helped with maybe a few less brain zaps.  I am supposed to have another appointment with my dr. tomorrow and will discuss the situation with him and ask him the questions that Scallywag suggested.  I do wonder if instead of taking one 150 mg XR dosage in the morning and taking a 75 mg XR dosage in the am and pm if my body will recognize it as still receiving 150 mg or a more steady dosage of 75mg all day long?  Any thoughts?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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downtongirl,  Have a look at one of my previous posts. I think I answered your question about reacting to the change in frequency.

 

I was rude in my original post in this spot.

Original post: Asked and answered already, downton. Please read previous posts.

Please accept my apology.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

downtongirl,  Have a look at one of my previous posts. I think I answered your question about reacting to the change in frequency.

 

I was rude in my original post in this spot.

Original post: Asked and answered already, downton. Please read previous posts.

Please accept my apology.

 

No worries Scallywag....I appreciate your apology!

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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So I went to see my psych dr. and we both feel that I need to try a switch to prozac for the longer half life because my body is just metabolizing the effexor xr too quickly this time.  He suggests a week of 75 mg and 20 mg prozac then a week of 37.5 mg of effexor and 20 mg of prozac then on the third week just the prozac and when I stabilize then we can go from there....I countered with a plan of 75 mg of effexor plus 10 mg of prozac for a week then 37.5 mg of effexor plus 10 mg of prozac and then just the prozac.  My reason for this counter suggestion was I was afraid the 20 mg of prozac would be too stimulating.  I have researched and it seems that as close to an equivalent dosage of 75 mg of effeoxr is 20 mg of prozac.....my psych is leaving it  up to me as to whether I want to try the 10 mg or 20 mg of prozac.  I am scared because when I tried to reinstate 10 mg of prozac back in January it did not work and I became very agitated and anxious trying to do so.  On the other hand I wonder if 20 mg might be better because I will most likely experience withdrawal with the switch no matter the dosage of prozac just because of effexor's extremely short half life and with just 10 mg of prozac it seems like it would also be a dosage drop on top of the switch....any thoughts?  Thanks!

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Have a look at the plans Alto's listed in the Prozac switch thread: Prozac switch or bridge

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

Thanks scalawag...I have read and reread them several times.  I guess I will try the 37.5 mg plus 10 mg of prozac route and see how it goes.

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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I was wondering if there is anyone on here who is currently or who has done the effexor - prozac bridge or switch?  Thanks in advance!

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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Ok....got some interesting results back from some genetic testing....I already knew from a couple of months ago that I tested positive for the homozygous CY677T and now I have found out through testing that I have some other gene mutations that might affect my metabolism/withdrawal of antidepressants.  Enzymes I have a polymorphism to are....CYP1A1, CYP1B1, CYP2C19 (this one has a lot to do with antidepressants), I am also absent with the COMT Enzyme, I am considered to have a slow metabolizer metabolism polymorphism to NAT@ enzyme, SOD2 enzyme.  Does anyone else have these mutations and if so do you take supplements for them?  It has been suggested to me that I add NAC, L Methylfolate, Vitamins B6, B12.

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

It is always a good idea to google surviving antidepressants + anything that interests you. It's very likely this has been addressed before. I did it now for you and this is the thread I found:

 

 http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5547-the-importance-of-mthfr-methylation-and-b-vitamins/

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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Thank you so much Bubble!  I really appreciate it!

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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Ok so I have down to 37.5 mg effexor plus 10 mg of prozac for a couple of days and I think the longer half life of the prozac is helping the brain zaps as they seem less than when I was just on effexor.  I haven't noticed anything significant in the way of withdrawals going from the 75 mg of effexor to the 37.5 mg of the effexor but I guess the addition of prozac is helping that out and it is very early on yet.  I am trying to decide how long to stay on both meds before trying just the prozac.  I have read and reread the prozac bridge thread and I understand the logic behind the suggestion of not being on both meds for more than two weeks but when I did the prozac bridge from effexor in 2010-2011 I was on 10 mg of prozac plus 25 mg of effexor plus trazadone and buspar for a month then went to 20 mg of prozac, 12. 5 mg of effexor, buspar and trazadone.  I stayed on that combination for 2 months then went to 6.25 mg of effexor xr, 20 mg of prozac, trazadone, and buspar for 2 months then I stopped effexor so that was a total of 6 months of prozac and effexor xr.  

 

My goal although it may be too lofty is to be on just prozac by August and I would love to be at just 10 mg but we shall see.  If I were able to reach that goal then I think I would hold at that dosage of prozac for a few months before trying to taper the prozac.

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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You may wish to taper down the Effexor at a pace you feel comfortable. I can't speak to the effectiveness of a cocktail, which risks more adverse effects and requires more tapering.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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You may wish to taper down the Effexor at a pace you feel comfortable. I can't speak to the effectiveness of a cocktail, which risks more adverse effects and requires more tapering.

 

Thanks for your reply Alto....I have tapered down to 75 mg but below that I have to add the prozac which is where I am at....37.5 mg of effexor xr 1 x a day and 10 mg of prozac....I have been doing this for one week....would you suggest I drop the 37.5 mg of effexor at the 2 week point or hold a little longer like I have done previously?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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You may wish to taper down the Effexor at a pace you feel comfortable. I can't speak to the effectiveness of a cocktail, which risks more adverse effects and requires more tapering.

 

Also, Alto....I have noticed that in the morning when I take both the 37.5 mg of effexor and 10 mg of prozac I feel fairly calm, and tired but pretty good until the afternoon and then I start getting waves of anxious feelings and as the evening goes on I get more hot flashes and tingling feelings in my legs and fee, and my heart beats feel strongert.  I am assuming this is most likely from the drop in effexor xr.  I have always had more problems with anxiety in the afternoon.  I have read that because prozac is so slowly metabolized that it takes longer to become fully effective than other ssri's do so I may need to give it more time to try and compensate for the reduction of effexor.

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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Wanted to give an update for feedback....Well I have been doing the effexor-prozac bridge switch.  I have been trying to quit antidepressants off and on for 8 years.  Anyway....I have done the prozac-effexor bridge two times before....once in 2011.  That time the doctor suggested it and I got down to 25 mg of effexor and added 10 mg of prozac and then went up to 20 mg of prozac then decreased the effexor to zero in a span of about 6 months.  The second time was last summer and my doctor and I cut the effexor in half from 150 mg to 75 mg and added 10 mg of prozac.  We did this for a couple of weeks then went down to 37.5 mg of effexor plus the 10 mg of prozac for a couple of weeks for a total of a month then quit the effexor and kept the prozac of 10 mg for one more month then no antidepressants for 3 months until I crashed in January of this year.  Tried to reinstate prozac did not work doctors thought I was BPII so they stopped the attempt at the reinstatement of prozac and put me on lyrica and lamictal.  In april of this year I started to once again have some withdrawal so we put me back on effexor.  I had been up to effexor 150 mg from late April until about a month ago.  Effexor had always worked for me before but I was having too many side effects so we are bridging me to prozac.  

 

I have been back on prozac for 11 days.  This has been the schedule we have followed....

 

3 days of 75 mg of effexor plus 10 mg of prozac then tried just prozac.  After just 2 days on just prozac I started having severe dizziness, increased brain zaps, sleep problems, etc. so I added back in 37.5 mg of effexor and with in an hour or so symptoms were not gone but better.  So I decided to up my fish oil, magnesium glycinate, and add the NAC, LMethylfolate, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B12 that has been suggested to me by my functional med doctor and psychiatrist due to test results coming back I have severe MTHFR mutation and some other mutations.

 

It has not been since Friday since I have had any effexor xr and have been on just 10 mg of prozac plus supplements.  Here has been what is going on for the past couple of days...

 

Saturday...good morning....high anxiety, heart palpitations in the afternoon, ok evening....slept about a total of 6 hours broken sleep...continue fish oil, mag glycinate

Sunday....good morning....added the NAC, LMethylfolate, Vitamin B6, Vitamin b12...better afternoon than Saturday, good evening....sleep about 8 hours....continued fish oil, mag glycinate, and 10 mg of prozac

Today....ok morning....took 10 mg of prozac plus above supplements.  About 1 - 2 hours after taking prozac and supplements I feel very tired and a little zombies...then start feeling better early afternoon so I run some errands....mid to late afternoon I have some increased anxiety with some increased heart palpitations but feeling a little better as the afternoon progresses.

 

Current symptoms....mild brain vibrations maybe once an hour

Vertigo sporadic

Fatigue

Tired eyes

Heart Palpitations slightly increased

 

Things that have improved over the past couple of days with out effexor....

thoughts seem more clear

mood is a little better

sleep is a little better

feel more even

 

So....I guess I will continue with just the 10 mg of prozac and supplements and take it day by day.....I guess I am experiencing waves and windows which I think I have been experiencing each day for the past couple of years.

 

I know it is very, very, very early into this attempt at a bridge to prozac but interested to see your thoughts....is it your opinion things are going well in comparison to how the bridge is supposed to go?  I had hoped to have zero symptoms in doing this bridge but knew there would be some unfortunately.  

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Thanks for updating downtongirl, it sounds like you are doing ok since cutting out the effexor.

 

Are you still taking lyrica and lamictal?

 

You may experience windows and waves for a while as you continue to adjust, the important thing is to not make changes in your drug dosing or supplements in response. Give it at least 2 months before thinking about tapering,, if it were me, I would probably wait longer.

 

You have been taking these drugs a long time and have had many problems in the past with trying to come off them, so the slower you taper, the more chance you will have of being successful this time. Think in terms of years rather than months. Give yourself enough time to stabilize and then take it very slowly.

 

Here are some general tips for successful tapering:The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

Please would you update your signature with recent changes.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Thanks Petunia for posting on my page.  I have updated my signature and to answer your question no I am not taking lamictal or lyrica.  Just the 10 mg of prozac and a few supplements.

 

Day 14 of the effexor-prozac bridge/switch....8 days of both meds and 6 days of just prozac 10 mg and my current symptoms are...

 

Slight nausea....afternoons

Slight Vertigo....afternoons

mild brain zaps....afternoons/evenings

mild anxiety/low mood....afternoons

 

I am able to shower, dress, put on make up and style hair, run errands, cook meals, do laundry, take dog for walks, attend church, go out to eat, etc.

 

Biggest complaints I have is the lack of confidence I have since my failed attempts to quit/taper medications and my horrible crash this past January and not feeling I can plan things more than a few days out and not knowing what the next day holds and not knowing what to do with myself now that I haven't been working since the emotional/physical crash this past January.

 

I am taking the prozac at supper time.....I was taking it in the morning with breakfast but I was having fatigue after taking it so I moved it to evening....I will see how that goes...if it interferes with sleep.

 

My plans are to stay on the 10 mg of prozac for a few months and see if I can stabilize.

 

I notice that about an hour after I take the prozac I have some slight increase in the mild brain zaps and my brain sometimes feels like it vibrates to noises in the evenings after I take it....so far it is not horrible and I have had this in the past so I don't know if it is just a screwed up CNS or if my body is reacting badly to antidepressants now and if so if it will always be this way....any thoughts?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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Need your advice please....day 19 of the effexor/prozac switch and I think I am in a wave.....I have had increasing dizziness, nausea, etc. and last night had insomnia....did not sleep at all....I have also had an increase in bowel movements and waves of irritability/anxiety....feels like energy in my body.....almost like a vibration ......also some parathesia in my feet.  Something happened this morning that I have never had happen before....I had a dark green/black bowel movement....sorry not trying to be gross.  Do you think these symptoms are effexor withdrawal....it has now been 12 days with out any effexor or do you think these are due to the prozac?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Yes, dg, this is almost certainly caused by withdrawal from Effexor.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Yes, dg, this is almost certainly caused by withdrawal from Effexor.

 

Thanks for your response scalawag....would your recommendations be to hold the prozac at 10 mg or to increase/decrease?  Also, do you know if waves after reinstating/switching doing a bridge are as long or as intense as they would be if I was not on any antidepressant?  Thanks!

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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I know everyone is very busy but was wondering should I hold at 10 mg....add back in a little effexor xr? go up a little in prozac?  The reason I am leaning towards going up in prozac is the point where I got stuck tapering effexor was at 75 mg and from my research 20 mg of prozac is about the same as 75 mg of effexor and I was wondering if being at 20 mg might help with more symptoms ....any thoughts?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

You did this with your doctor's help, right?  What was the bridge plan you worked out with him?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

yes...my new psych dr. helped me....the plan was 37.5 of effexor xr plus 10 prozac for 10 days to 2 weeks then just the prozac....I read on here it was best to get off of the original drug with in two weeks when bridging/switching to prozac....in the past the dr.'s had me overlap the two for a longer period.....I was just wondering what I should ask my dr. for when I call his office.

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

dg: In your June 30 post (above) you say:

Day 14 of the effexor-prozac bridge/switch....8 days of both meds and 6 days of just prozac 10 mg and my current symptoms are...

So your last day of effexor was June 24 and starting from June 25, you've been taking only Prozac 10 mg. Would you add these dates to your signature?

Have your symptoms changed in the last few days since your post on July 6?

 

Need your advice please....day 19 of the effexor/prozac switch and I think I am in a wave.....I have had increasing dizziness, nausea, etc. and last night had insomnia....did not sleep at all....I have also had an increase in bowel movements and waves of irritability/anxiety....feels like energy in my body.....almost like a vibration ......also some parathesia in my feet.  Something happened this morning that I have never had happen before....I had a dark green/black bowel movement....sorry not trying to be gross.  Do you think these symptoms are effexor withdrawal....it has now been 12 days with out any effexor or do you think these are due to the prozac?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

Link to comment

Yes I will edit my signature and here are my med journal logs since I started the cross taper....

 

5/25 150 mg effexor xr

 

5/26 112.5 mg effexor xr

 

5/30 75 mg of effexor xr...beginning to feel a little more clear headed and not so flat....a little bit improved energy

 

6/9 37.5 mg of effexor xr

 

6/12 big increase in withdrawal symptoms

 

6/13 75 mg effexor xr

 

6/17 37.5 mg of effexor xr plus 10 mg of prozac

 

6/18....slight improvement in mood

 

6/21 0 mg of effexor xr plus 10 mg of prozac....decline in mood...feeling more sad

 

6/23 37.5 mg of effexor xr plus 10 mg of prozac

 

6/25 0 mg of effexor xr plus 10 g of prozac

 

6/26....some improvement in mood and withdrawal symptoms

 

6/29 0 mg of effexor xr plus 5 mg of prozac

 

6/30...increase in withdrawal symptoms

 

7/1 ....felt pretty good

 

7/4 0 mg of effexor xr plus 10 mg of prozac...increased prozac back to 10 mg because I felt withdrawal symptoms increase

 

7/8 0 mg of effexor xr plus 20 mg of prozac....bad day 

 

7/9 0 mg of effexor xr plus 20 mg of prozac....better day

 

7/10 0 mg of effexor xr plus 20 mg of prozac....ok day

 

My current symptoms are...

 

morning feel relatively ok as in regards to being in withdrawal some mild brain zaps until I take my dosage of medicine then I feel a little flat

 

afternoon anxiety and irritability and fatigue

 

evening usually feel better a little calmer than the afternoon with some physical pain and jaw clenching and tingling in my legs and some mild brain zaps return in the evening

 

night time....some nights I fall asleep with in an hour...some nights it takes two

 

Some observations I have noticed is on days I have more than one bowel movement my afternoon anxiety and withdrawal symptoms are worse....could this be because my gut is dumping serotonin during bowel movement?

 

I seem to have one good day and the next is not so good....I know this is windows and waves...

 

I know that having any withdrawal symptoms and mood fluctuations is not good but I tried to do the cross over to prozac as soon as I could....when I have done it in the past I took much longer to do it so gauging on my above post would you say I am doing poorly, fairly well since the cross over?

 

Are my symptoms normal at this stage in the cross taper experience?

 

thank you for reading over and replying to my thread

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

It sounds like you're starting to stabilize in the typical windows and waves kind of pattern. I would have liked to see you give it more time at 10mg before going up to 20mg, its possible that you would have stabilized at the lower dose, and not needed to take the higher dose, constant jumping around in dose can be destabilizing.

 

But you have increased to 20mg now, so I suggest you stay there for a good long while. Don't make drug adjustments in response to daily changes in your symptom pattern. Expect to get days when you feel better and days you feel worse. This is the normal path to stabilization whether you are recovering from withdrawal, trying to reinstate or adjusting to a bridge/crossover.

 

Here is a video which explains it well: 

 

Keep notes and rate your symptoms over the course of at least a month before deciding if you are improving, getting worse or staying the same.

 

Increased bowel movements often accompany increased levels of anxiety, its one of the physiological reactions caused by our fight/flight response being in overdrive, so its not surprising this happens on your worse days, the same thing happens to me.

 

Try to be patient and give it more time, you are going to settle down eventually. By staying calm, having a healthy lifestyle and not making changes, you will be helping yourself to achieve stability faster.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Thank you Petunia for your reply!  So do you feel that the reinstatement is working?  I guess I was expecting a reinstatement to work quicker as it has done before.  

 

Since I am having windows and waves does that mean the prozac is not working as well as it did in the past or that I am having a mix of the prozac helping but still suffering from withdrawal symptoms at the same time?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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Feeling anxious so I thought I would post my symptoms from today thus far for your feed back....

 

7 am....awake from a cortisol surge....handled it pretty well

 

7:30 am....got up and took my 20 mg dosage of prozac....laid back down for about an hour and a half

 

9:30 am.....ate breakfast took fish oil, l-methylfolate, vitamin b6

 

11:30 am....start to feel zoned out somewhat and flat....sort of like I don't care about much

 

1 pm....ate lunch and showered

 

2 pm dentist appointment....feeling a lift in flat feeling and actually joked around with the dental assistant

 

3 pm....had a snack

 

3:30 pm....mood still pretty good but starting to feel a little energized

 

4:30 pm....mood still pretty good but starting to having stronger heart beats...feel like my blood pressure is elevated

 

5:30 pm...mood still pretty good although energized feeling is increasing and I am feeling anxious about this energized feeling ....I am paranoid of getting akathisia

 

6:30 pm....ate supper....in a pretty good mood actually felt a little happy

 

7:30 pm....felt surge of anxiety building with energy and peaked with what felt like a hot flash....I have had these before....lasted about 2 minutes....really worried I am getting akathisia

 

I know that prozac is supposed to be a more stimulating antidepressant and from what I have read when starting prozac or any antidepressant there can sometimes be a surge in anxiety but I am deathly afraid of getting akathisia....does the above sound like that is what is happening to me?

 

symptoms that have improved today are...

 

nausea better

 

felt more relaxed most of the day until the late afternoon

 

felt a lift in mood

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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anyone?

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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Well, I thought I would give an update on this prozac bridge process for your input on how you think things are going....don't completely trust my opinion on how things are going...

 

7/13....felt like going and getting my hair cut and colored, walked the dog, went to supper with my family, decided to take melatonin to help inmate sleep....slept about 7 hours....prozac 20 mg, fish oil, mag glycinate, l methylfolate, NAC, Vitamin B12, Vitamin b6

 

7/14....took my 20 mg of prozac in the morning....feel a little dizzy and a little nauseous after taking prozac for about 3 hours until I eat lunch...felt like going for a massage....had a really good afternoon....felt calm and almost normal....brain zaps are very mild and mostly in the evening and when trying to go to sleep...was able to bake two cakes and cook supper...took one cake to a friend whose dad passed away....felt like this was a good day....supplements the same as above

 

7/15....took my 20 mg of prozac this morning....feel a little vertigo, nausea, fatigue since taking it hoping this passes in early afternoon....

 

Do you think I should try 15 mg of prozac since I am having these symptoms for a couple of hours after taking it?

 

Is there any harm in taking melatonin each night indefinitely?

 

Thanks in advance!

1995 - 2015 antidepressants and antianxiety medicine
Multiple failed attempts to quit/taper anti d/anti anxiety meds since 2008

June 17, 2016 began prozac bridge to get off of effexor xr, stopped effexor xr on June 24, 2016, could not tolerate prozac due to severe side effects so I had to stop it  Currently...300 mg ER of lithium, 1 mg of estradiol, 60 mg propranolol ER, Fish oil 2 x a day, Magnesium Glycinate,  zinc, vitamin c, vitamin d, NAC

 

 

 

 

 

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