☼ primrose: Tapering off Valium, others

[primrose]

Hi

 

I just joined.

 

I am on 300mg trazodone prescribed for depression, and 150mg of quetiapine (serquel)prescribed off label for anxiety. (This med is normally sor schizophrenia in high doses upto 800mg I think.

I am currently on a tranquliser taper and am getting help from a tranquiliser forum.

I have been recently reading about coming off anti-psychs and have made myself very scared.

An online friend referred me to this forum to see if I could get some reassurance.

 

Many thanks

[ajay]

Hi Primrose, and welcome!

 

How long have you been on your meds? Are you taking more than the trazodone and quetiapine?

One suggestion that comes up for new posters a lot - can you put your history in your signature? That way people can see what you're taking and how long you've been taking it, since that tends to be important information to consider.

Instructions, if you need them, are here

[primrose]

Hi Primrose, and welcome!

 

How long have you been on your meds? Are you taking more than the trazodone and quetiapine?

One suggestion that comes up for new posters a lot - can you put your history in your signature? That way people can see what you're taking and how long you've been taking it, since that tends to be important information to consider.

Instructions, if you need them, are here

 

Thanks to the history instructions. Will set about doing that now.

The dates below are as accurate as my memory will allow, but I'm not sure if they are fully accurate.

I first went on trazodone 150mg in June 2009, upped it to 300mg in September 2009, and upped it to 450 in December 2009-cut it to 300mg in March 2010 as different doctor wouldn't prescribe 450mg.

I started taking the seroquel, 50mg I think, in sept 2009, and stopped in Nov 2009, but went back on it about that time. Can't remember when I upped it to 100mg. I upped to 150mg in March this year.

 

Thanks from P

[Altostrata]

Hello, primrose. Thank you for joining us.

 

What have you been taking the Valium for?

 

How has your taper been going so far?

[primrose]

Hello, primrose. Thank you for joining us.

 

What have you been taking the Valium for?

 

How has your taper been going so far?

 

I told my doctor I was suffering anxiety, but relly, I just wanted downers to come off uppers I was abusing (stopped uppers in March 2009)

I confessed this to the doctor.

I stuck to Doctors instructions on taking valium and sleepers, and did not know I was addicted.

Symptoms started when I tried to cold turkey valium in 2009-not knowing I was addicted-it took 17 days for symptoms to appear, because valium stays in your system upto 3 weeks.

This is why I went back on valium.

 

I was looking forward to the last leg of the valium taper, when I read that seroquel can have bad withdrawal symptoms, and it scared me stiff that I will have to go through this, and worse, again when I come off the Quetiapine and the trazodone.

 

thanks

[Altostrata]

Did you start taking trazodone and Seroquel after you started tapering Valium? Or was is when you cold-turkeyed?

[primrose]

Did you start taking trazodone and Seroquel after you started tapering Valium? Or was is when you cold-turkeyed?

 

I thinkI started taking trazodone after I cold turkeyed.

I started quetiapine in the early stages of my taper, or very shortly before.

Sorry for my poor memory.

[Altostrata]

It sounds like maybe you are taking both trazodone and Seroquel for the Valium withdrawal symptoms.

 

How had your Valium taper been so far?

[primrose]

It sounds like maybe you are taking both trazodone and Seroquel for the Valium withdrawal symptoms.

 

How had your Valium taper been so far?

 

My valium taper has gone well so far, with regards to physical symptoms, but the anxiety and depression are intense. The anxiety is driving me to act out of panic, especially when I have to do things with a time limit. I think the depression is making me radiate out misery to others and perhaps I am alienating them. I am staying in bed alot, because I cannot face the day.

 

Thank you

P

[Altostrata]

Depression and definitely anxiety rebound are symptoms of benzo withdrawal.

 

Can you hold at the same level of the Valium a bit?

[Rhiannon]

How are you tapering the Valium? Are you using liquid Valium? It sounds overall like you've been going at a reasonable rate if you started at 15 in 2009.

 

Sounds like you may be already getting advice about the benzo taper. Just in case, though, let me remind you that when you get to these lower doses, you need to slow the taper down. Most people find that under 5 mg of Valium they have to cut their taper rate about in half. I know it's frustrating to take longer, but it will be better when you get to the end.

 

Not being able to get out of bed or out of the house is a very common side effect of benzo withdrawal and of benzos in general. Depression and anxiety are also typical of Valium w/d. Not that knowing that helps at all, I understand! But it will go away. The agoraphobia is one of the first effects to clear up for most people.

 

Just let go of the antipsychotic tapers for now. Try not to think about it yet. It's going to be a while before you can start those anyway, you need to finish the V taper and then wait at least six months before considering starting another taper, and even then only if you're feeling solid and stable.

 

There's no reason why you can't taper the antipsychotics slowly and carefully and do just fine, in my opinion. You'll be feeling better and your mind will be clearer by then, after you've recovered from the Valium.

 

So I think you should just let the future go, trust your future self to take care of things when the time comes. Is that something you can work on? Focus on taking care of yourself now. Make your goal be to just drag yourself out of the house at least once a day, get outside, even if it's just into the front yard. If you can do that, then take your next steps from there, maybe go for a walk. If you can get even a short walk in, in the sunshine, that will help with the depression, and you'll feel a little better. For now, focus on taking care of yourself and getting through this Valium taper, if you can.

 

When the time comes to start the other tapers, you'll have our support and lots of information and experience to work with, and you'll cross that bridge when you get there. And probably cross it brilliantly with the experience and knowledge you have already acquired.

[Rhiannon]

Oh, also, don't updose or downdose anything else now, try to keep everything right where it is, don't add in any new meds or take any out.

[Altostrata]

Rhi, I was wondering, perhaps primrose can stabilize at where she is with the Valium taper and get off of that awful trazodone first, then the Seroquel, since she supposedly is taking them for her cold-turkey withdrawal symptoms.

 

Then she can finish the Valium taper.

[primrose]

Hi

 

I am working with Battle Against Tranquilisers and www.THETRAP.org.uk on my valium withdrawal.

I have been tapering very slowly since late 2009/2010 and reducing my cut size as I go. I am now cutting by 0.2mg.

 

I intend to come off the quietapine and the trazodone when recovered from the benzos.

 

I am worried about the queitapine withdrawal but I am now also worried about the trazodone withdrawal.

 

I jsut want to know if it is possible to withdraw safely from trazodone and quietapine.

 

Many thanks

[Altostrata]

Yes, it is possible to withdraw safely from Seroquel and trazodone.

 

Since you are having benzo withdrawal symptoms now, I am wondering if it might help you to stay at one dosage for a while, to see if symptoms lessen. Have you discussed this with your benzo support group?

[primrose]

Yes, it is possible to withdraw safely from Seroquel and trazodone.

 

Since you are having benzo withdrawal symptoms now, I am wondering if it might help you to stay at one dosage for a while, to see if symptoms lessen. Have you discussed this with your benzo support group?

 

I did hold the last dose I was on, but it didn't seem to do any good-worse if anything.

I also held a while at 5mg and again, it didn't seem to do good, and again, felt worse if anything.

 

Pls can you point me to some reading material online about people who have not had any problems when coming off seroquel or trazodone.

 

Many thanks

[Altostrata]

We have people here who have tapered off Seroquel, they will post here as they read this.

 

You can Google trazodone or Seroquel tapering. Here are a couple of pages:

 

http://www.furiousseasons.com/archives/2007/01/a_long_seroquel_taper.html

 

http://www.ehow.com/how_5052545_taper-off-seroquel.html -- This is much too fast a taper, in my opinion. We still recommend a 10% decrease to start. Everyone is different and this will give you an idea of what you might be able to tolerate as a decrease.

 

Beyond Med's Gianna Kali withdrew from antipsychotics among other medications, here is her withdrawal advice http://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/withdrawal-101/

 

The principle in tapering any non-benzo is the same: Slow, gradual decreases at a rate you can tolerate.

[primrose]

Thanks enormously for those links.

I will bookmark them and read them.

Maybe they will ease my worry.

 

Many thanks

[Rhiannon]

Rhi, I was wondering, perhaps primrose can stabilize at where she is with the Valium taper and get off of that awful trazodone first, then the Seroquel, since she supposedly is taking them for her cold-turkey withdrawal symptoms.

 

Then she can finish the Valium taper.

 

That would also be an option, if she took some time to stabilize on the Valium first. The important thing is to not switch meds quickly. And with Valium, allow lots of time for things to level out, because it has long-acting metabolites that accumulate.

[Rhiannon]

Primrose, yes, you CAN taper off the other drugs. You'll do fine. It's going to take some time. But everything you've already learned about tapering will apply. You already have the knowledge, so you won't make the mistakes that cause people to have problems.

 

Remember, you're feeling anxiety because of benzo withdrawal right now, so that may be causing you to focus on your fears about the other drugs. Also benzo withdrawal can make people sort of obsessive and repetitive too so it can be easy to get sort of "stuck" focusing on fears. I see that happen to people in benzo w/d all the time, and it happens to me too.

 

You're going to do fine. Just take your time.

[Altostrata]

primrose, people have successfully tapered off antidepressants, please stop worrying about that.

 

The antidepressant tapers may be easier than the benzo taper.

[Rhiannon]

 

Yes, it is possible to withdraw safely from Seroquel and trazodone.

 

Since you are having benzo withdrawal symptoms now, I am wondering if it might help you to stay at one dosage for a while, to see if symptoms lessen. Have you discussed this with your benzo support group?

 

I did hold the last dose I was on, but it didn't seem to do any good-worse if anything.

I also held a while at 5mg and again, it didn't seem to do good, and again, felt worse if anything.

 

Pls can you point me to some reading material online about people who have not had any problems when coming off seroquel or trazodone.

 

Many thanks

 

Yeah, unfortunately this seems to happen with benzos to some people. Holding doesn't make them feel any better and sometimes even worse. I still think for your brain's sake it's a good idea to hold periodically, but it sounds like you are doing this.

 

Sounds like you're doing an excellent job with the Valium taper!

[primrose]

Hi Rhi

 

Thank you.

 

You seem to have a good knowledge about finer details of benzo withdrawal, have you done it yourself?

 

You seem to understand.

 

P

[Rhiannon]

I've been tapering Xanax for about eighteen months. Done a lot of reading, a lot of correspondence with different people, worked with a couple of different groups, email lists, forums etc. I actually know a lot more about benzos and benzo w/d than about SSRIs.

 

I'm afraid I've gotten to know benzo withdrawal up close and much more personally than I would like. Xanax is some nasty stuff. I took it for about 20 years and had interdose withdrawal all that time, although I didn't know that's what it was at that time.

 

I'm actually an imposter here who snuck in from the benzo world. :-)

[primrose]

I've been tapering Xanax for about eighteen months. Done a lot of reading, a lot of correspondence with different people, worked with a couple of different groups, email lists, forums etc. I actually know a lot more about benzos and benzo w/d than about SSRIs.

 

I'm afraid I've gotten to know benzo withdrawal up close and much more personally than I would like. Xanax is some nasty stuff. I took it for about 20 years and had interdose withdrawal all that time, although I didn't know that's what it was at that time.

 

I'm actually an imposter here who snuck in from the benzo world. :-)

 

Hi Rhi

 

I think the benzo forum directed me here also, so I am an imposter.

We are all coming off psych drugs though, so we do have that in common.

Sorry you have had such a bad experinece with Xanax.

Yes, to my understanding, that and clonopin are the worst benzos.

You did well to get this far (18mths)

How far have you got to go, as in, how much is your current dose?

I take it that you are now on valium to do the taper? Is that right?

 

love

P

[Rhiannon]

No, I tried the valium crossover but I don't tolerate valium at all, it makes me quite ill. So I'm liquid tapering directly off Xanax with multiple doses throughout the day and night (every three hours more or less).

 

I started at about 0.65 to 0.7 a day (I was taking one 0.5 tablet and a little less than half of another one) and now I'm down to 0.34 a day after eighteen months of tapering. I'm tapering other meds at the same time, though, so I would probably have gone a little faster if it had been Xanax alone. Maybe not a lot faster though. Anyway, I'm about halfway. But they say it gets slower at lower doses so I'm expecting a couple more years before I'm all the way off.

[Rhiannon]

Oh, and just a reminder, Primrose: You are experiencing those intrusive obsessive thoughts and worries that are so common in benzo withdrawal. I know it's hard to get outside of those "loops" as some people call them.

 

The fact is, though, you will be able to taper just fine off of Seroquel and trazodone. The hardest part is learning about tapering to begin with, learning to take it slowly and in small increments. You have already learned that.

 

You will have all of your knowledge and skills which you have already earned, and the online support system that you have already built for yourself. You will do fine.

[primrose]

Hi

 

I haven't been on this forum for a while. Sorry.

I have been weaning off benzos for three years and am down to 3.48mg valium a day.

I stopped my trazodone 300mg a day last thursday, as I had forgotten a couple of doses and didnt feel withdrawals.

I really don't want to go back on them again if I don't have to, but I cannot stop crying.

 

The main thing I want to know, is, have I damaged myself by coming off cold turkey.

 

Please help

 

Thanks

[Altostrata]

Hi, primrose, I attached your new post to your Intro topic.

 

As you know, cold turkey is not a good idea. Your nervous system is already stressed by the benzo taper.

 

Can you take a quarter of a trazodone tablet today? This may help the withdrawal-related weeping.

 

If you take care of your nervous system, it will recover. Be careful about medication changes, please!

[primrose]

Hi, primrose, I attached your new post to your Intro topic.

 

As you know, cold turkey is not a good idea. Your nervous system is already stressed by the benzo taper.

 

Can you take a quarter of a trazodone tablet today? This may help the withdrawal-related weeping.

 

If you take care of your nervous system, it will recover. Be careful about medication changes, please!

 

Hi and thanks for your reply. Is it ok to take trazodone as and when I need it.

My doctor, like all other doctors, is clueless.

 

Have I caused myself some damage by coming off cold turkey?

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I'd take a quarter of a trazodone tablet at the same time every day for at least a few weeks. You need to stabilize your nervous system from that cold turkey. Then you can taper off it more slowly.

 

Did a quarter of a tablet help with the weepiness?

[primrose]

Hi

 

I take 300mg trazodone a day, 150mg seroquel and 3.2mg valium.

 

I am micro-tapering valium with the excellent help from Jana over at benzodetoxrecovery.com.

 

I am using a very very conservative daily cut of 0.006mg to micro-taper valium, but the seroquel and trazodone are causing me problems. They are exacerbating the withdrawal symptoms of valium.

They are also sedating me too much, so, I feel anxious and aggitated, but I also feel too sedated.

 

I tapered valium using the asthon method from 15mgs to 3.5mgs, and then I could tolerate it no more and went onto daily cuts, which are much better. I lost another 0.3mgs really smoothly, much smoother than the cut and hold type taper.

 

I know it is not recommended to taper more than one drug at a time, but I was wondering if I took 75mg trazodone 3 times a day, instead of 100 three times a day, and if I took 50mg seroquel three times a day, instead of 75mg seroquel, could anyone see any problems arising?

 

Thanks

[Altostrata]

primrose, I moved your new post here to your Intro and Updates topic, since it is so specific to your situation.

 

How are the seroquel and trazodone aggravating the benzo withdrawal symptoms?

[primrose]

For FDA information about Seroquel, see http://www.drugs.com/pro/quetiapine-fumarate-tablets.html

Dosage Forms and Strengths

25 mg tablets

50 mg tablets

100 mg tablets

150 mg tablets

200 mg tablets

300 mg tablets

400 mg tablets

If I had to taper off Seroquel, I would cut up the 25mg tablets to taper down from the higher dosages.

 

As for a do-it-yourself solution, it looks like Seroquel is somewhat soluble in water www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB01224

 

According to http://www.new.ijpi.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/6.pdf

Formulation and In Vitro Evaluation of PH-Independent Sustained Release Drug Delivery System of Quetiapine Fumarate

HT Mulani, I Parmar, NJ Shah 2011

3.2. pH dependent stability of drug Drug solution was prepared with the concentration 300 ppm in 0.1 N HCl, 4.5 aceaate buffer, pH 6.8 phosphate buffer and 7.4 phosphate buffer; and observed for 24 hrs at predetermined time intervals. Drug is stable at pH range from 1.2 to 7.4 and showed the maximum 2 % degradation as compared to initial concentration (Table 2).

So it's most likely stable mixed with water for 24 hours.

 

I haven't done this and I don't know anyone who has, so I can't say for sure it works.

 

Thanks Allostra

 

I think I will use a digital scale.

I am considering tapering seroquel down a bit as I am in the middle of a valium taper and I think the seroquel is disrupting my valium taper.

[primrose]

This thread is all about my progress with tapering psych meds.

 

I only joined last month, but had already tapered down from 15mg valium per day, down to 3.19mgs.

I had c/t valium in 2009 but reinstated at the end of that year.

I take 100mgs trazodone three times a day and I also take 135mg seroquel a day.

 

I saw my doctor today as I feel the seroquel could be standing in the way of my benzo taper, as I was micro-tapering at 0.006mg a day and still feeling it.

Hopefully, by losing some of the seroquel, and holding my valium dose until then, I can resume my benzo micro taper at a later date.

This is dissappointing as I want off benzos badly, but I am moving forward as I am losing seroquel.

 

Also, I found out today that a blood test I had in January showed slightly elevated white cells, and my doc said that is probably an infection. I think this infection is what causes me to wake up wet with sweat every morning even though I have a fan on by the bed.

I never phoned up for the test results in January cos the nurse said if there is a problem, they would get back to me. So, I've had an infection since Jan, but I don't know where it is.

I suspect it is a mild kidney infection from when I had depression and didn't drink/go to the loo enough.

 

I'll post back to let you know how I feel in a few days when the cut in seroquel has kicked in.

[Jemima]

Primrose,

 

I moved your most recent post here because it has to do with your personal tapering progress and that belongs in your Introduction thread, which is meant to be used somewhat like a journal. The Tapering forum is meant for general tapering tips. (If you want, I can change the name of this thread to "Primrose's Palace".)

 

When you're ready to add to your Intro, just click on the Add Reply button at the bottom of the page.