Fefesmom

[fefesmom]

Well, glad to be here. I had been on Effexor XR for ten years and on Paxil or Prozac for five years before that. I had tried to taper off Effexor several times but as soon as I had a feeling of any kind I would get scared and go back on. Then I "forgot" to take the meds on October 6, 2011 and decided on my own to go cold turkey. Tomorrow will mark six weeks since I stopped. I guess I was lucky; I did have some 'brain zaps' and dizziness at first but they have gone. Now I am doing okay with my main symptoms being achiness and tiredness. I find myself crying at tv shows, newspaper articles, and portions of books that would make anyone cry. I get over it fast. I also find myself irritated by things but it lasts a very short time. I believe the effexor just numbed me out. I was "put on" antidepressants a year after my mother died (she died in 1995!). I was seeing a therapist at an *** and she pushed me to the meds I just went along with it. I think it did even out my moods but looking back, as I say, I think I was numbed out. My doses ranged from 225 to 150 over the years. Anyhow, I am so glad to find this website. I do wonder how long this achiness and tiredness may last. I retired almost four years ago after 40 years as a social worker (MSW). I have not had an overall happy life but it sure is better now. I feel stronger, more involved in life, since I retired and since I went off the effexor. I see a therapist at the *** every 6 weeks or so; she is telling the psychiatrist about my going off the drug. I don't think he knows much about meds or withdrawal (he never told me about effects of going off Paxil cold turkey which he suggested, to be replaced by Prozac. I felt like a truck had run over me after going off Paxil. I couldn't take the Paxil because I had terrible, scary dreams. Yes, I was sad about my mother's death but I was always able to function, go to work etc. and was never suicidal. If that ever happens I certainly would consider going on another ad. I understand effexor is one of the worst to get off. I Look forward to reading your posts and getting some good information and that my experiences can be of help to others too.

[Patience]

I moved your post into its own topic. Welcome! Withdrawal can sometimes be delayed, but I'll keep my hopes up that you will be fine. One thing I learned from eight or so attempts to quit is never throw away the bottle of pills until you're sure withdrawal has passed. I'm sure others who have experience with Effexor will chime in.

[fefesmom]

Thanks for your post, Patience. I do have, and plan to keep, a lot of the Effexor XR 37.5 tabs just in case. Needless to say I hope I don't get a delayed withdrawal reaction and won't need the meds again.

What I am not clear about is how do I know if something is a withdrawal symptom or a sign of depression? I am very reactive to things I read, see on tv or movies and cry briefly and easily. This actually feels good after years of being numb. How do I know if it goes into depression?

[Shanti]

Hi Fefesmom, Welcome to the forum. If you did get the withdrawal, you'll know it's different than regular depression. The regular depression I had was much much better than what I got with withdrawals from Paxil. I pray you don't have to go through it. But it seems like you're gonna make it

[Patience]

 

What I am not clear about is how do I know if something is a withdrawal symptom or a sign of depression?

The doctors put you on medication for a very normal human experience - grief. In my opinion, any "depression" you feel is likely your brain trying to readjust to being without medication. Robert Whitaker's book Anatomy of an Epidemic explains this quite well. Time is the best healer, but you don't want to shock your brain too much, so if you start to get bad withdrawal symptoms and not too much time has passed (like 4 to 6 months), you might want to reconsider going back on the non-XR Effexor and doing a slow taper.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Fef.

 

It's a good sign you don't have more severe withdrawal symptoms.

 

"Emotional lability" can be a withdrawal symptom. You may be hypersensitive emotionally for a while, but it should abate.

 

How's your sleep?

[fefesmom]

My sleep is good - no trouble falling asleep and even after I feed my cat at an ungodly early hour I can fall back to sleep until it is time to meditate and walk.

[Altostrata]

It seems to me you are well on the way to recovery.

 

Whatever you learn about managing this period of "emotional lability" will serve you well in the future, should you encounter another unhappy time.

[fefesmom]

Well, I am now not doing so well. I have been quite depressed for a couple of weeks - some of it I am chalking up to my usual holiday malaise. I regret going cold turkey but I can't do anything about that now. This site has been very helpful and reassuring and I thank all of you for your posts. Spectio has been especially helpful about taking things easy, being gentle and the like since my tendency is to do it now, get it fixed now and of course that doesn't work. I really don't want to go back on the meds although I have thought that was the only solution to the sadness, crying, despair. But the meds only mask all that. At least now I have the ability to cry at a movie, or book or seeing a nice situation ( eg a man and his dog at the beach with dog going after a frisbee into the ocean and bringing it back). In a way, I think I am more aware now. Also I have less patience with small talk at parties and find I am more honest about what I say. I have to remember that the depression I feel is not continuous and so far I have wanted to get up every morning and do something. I have been waking early and instead of just lying there I get up and then go back to sleep an hour or two later for a while. Again, thanks to everyone for being here.

[Barbarannamated]

Hi Fefe ~

I relate so well to how you feel including the holiday malaise • I usually feel relieved as soon as the day is gone but may take awhile this year

Most days it's the taste of my chai coffee that gets me out of bed

[spectio]

Hi, fefesmom, Well, the madness of Christmas is passing and maybe we can get a little excited about longer days and spring drawing closer. I don't know about how the weather is where you are but here on northern Nevada it has been an icebox for three weeks. Doesn't do much to help our fragile recovery. I know how you feel, we all do about the depression ( and the anxiety, and the dizzyness, and the nausea). Please don't get discouraged about the day to day battle, because one day is not a premonition for all days. They really are all different. Maybe on our extra challenging days, try not to do too much. And what you do, make it easy and take it slow. Are you having any issues with early morning anxiety? I know, the depression is bad enough! Don't you think this post ad depression is tons worse than what you experienced before you went on them? Have you tried fish oil yet? Check out the forum about using fish oil. If you don't suffer paradoxical reactions to it, it may really help your depression. Also walking is very good. If you haven't walked regularly, then just do a little every day and build up. I'm so glad to hear you meditate! It is a bit of a challenge when your depression sits in on the session, though! Just like everything else right now, some days are better than ever! By the way, what does your post name mean? Mine is a chimera of my two long gone furry friends, Speck and Tio. I sure do miss them! Take care!

[spectio]

Just a correction to my post. I should read them before I send them out.. Some days at better than others, not better than ever. I wish I had really good days! Just not there yet.

[fefesmom]

Hi Spectio. I just got back from a great walk by the ocean at Marina del Rey, about 15 miles from where I live. It is my favorite place in LA. I walk almost every day in my neighborhood and have for years. My name is for Fefe, my cat, who is my only child, hence I am her mom.. Her name came to me when I first got her nine years ago: I had the thought: Feline, feline - hence Fefe. Thanks for your post - taking things slowly and gently sounds good. I already take 400mg fish oil per MD and don't want to mess around with meds/supplements at this point. I did start taking magnesium and continue with that. It has been gorgeous here during the days - mid to high 60s - and very cold at night in the 40s. I love this weather.

[Barbarannamated]

I'm jealous

I love Marina DEL Rey ~spent a bit of time there when I lived in N Redondo and worked in LA

 

I live inland now and miss the coast terribly

[Barbarannamated]

Fefe~

If you are up for reading about psych from a less traditional perspective Judith Orloff MD is quite interesting and blends traditional western med with a more intuitive existential bent • she is from LA and lives in Marina del Rey I believe (not that that matters-just coincidental)• I've wanted to go to one of her seminars but have not gotten myself there yet •

I think she does not have children so might understand the feelings we have • I only know 1 other person who has no kids or nieces/nephews (only child)

 

Ok I'm going to check out Dr Orloff's schedule • I need something to look forward to

 

Gianna Kali/Beyond Meds blog is an absolute MUST READ ~ she has kept me going through this and intro'd me to this site • she worked as a therapist and has amazing insight from both professional and patient perspectives~her site will take you to many other mental health professionals who are also patients or 'Psychiatric Survivors'~Will Spirit (forget his real last name and almost said Smith is an MD who knows the system as a patient •

~Steven Morgan in Vermont (was a patient and then became therapist I THINK)~his story

The Wind Never Lies is another must read

~ISEPP-- International Society for Ethical Psychology and Psychiatry has alot of info from psychologists and 1 Family Practice doc who has opened a clinic to help people DC psych meds --Mark Foster DO (Crocus here can tell you more) ~i met him briefly at ISEPP conference in October --he must be cloned

On topic of SS/NRIs ~Peter Breggin MD ~his explanations confirmed what I suspected for awhile (I never had a positive response to serotonergic meds but kept trying for 15+ years getting worse with each med --somebody once said I had some smarts but my life choices disprove that)

 

Q: Are you familiar with Certified Peer Specialists ~ I started a discussion here under Taking Action • I've wanted to do the training just for something to do • I'd like to use my psychopharm background to help unmedicate people or at least minimize polydrugging which is horribly rampant • CRINGE

 

If only i could push past this inability to engage „there's alot of work to be done (see thread on Lack of Motivation or Anhedonia I started --in Symptoms category)

Frustrating

 

sorry to go on so long ~

[fefesmom]

Well. I wish everyone who reads this a happy, peaceful, healing new year.

Sometimes I think I spend so much time wondering how, trying different things to cope with, my negative thoughts that I don't just live for better or worse.

I'm always looking for some book that will be the answer - of course never find it.

Spend so much time thinking I should be different than I am.

Oh, well, Enough about this for now.

[fefesmom]

Hi. As usual, not sure this is the right place to write but here goes. Well, I seem to have gotten over the holiday downturn. Now I find I am dealing with the very symptom that got the MD to put me on ad after my mother died in 1995. I feel so alone. I cry a lot but always about some movie or book or music. Yes, the ad numbed me out so I didn't feel so alone but obviously that feeling is still here. I have worked on my own and in a 8 week class on Jon Kabat Zinn's Mindful Way Through Depression and find it very helpful. BUT this alone feeling is so awful. Do I just go through it? When I do I seem to survive and come out okay. Any responses will be appreciated. If you need more information let me know. Thanks again for being there.

[spectio]

Hi, fefesmom, please believe us in saying you are not alone. I'm sure other members will agree that we've all had that terrible feeling at one time or another. You're only a few days into withdrawal and so your brain is very raw. You're right, you are feeling everything you haven't felt for a very long time and I think that translates into real despair. I really think this is truly a sign of withdrawal. I remember visiting with you a few weeks back and you admitted then that these feelings wax and wane. I remember my first month after wd, I had days that seemed to be major depression the whole day. So bad that at bed time you were scared the next day would be exactly the same. But it wasn't. It may not be a lot more comfortable, maybe more anxiety or nausea or whatever but it was definitely different. So, please stay the course. Do what you can. Take care of yourself when the days are really bad. This too shall pass. We'll be here for you!

[Altostrata]

Hi, fefes. I moved your update from spectio's topic to your topic.

 

Thanks, spec, for your response.

 

BUT this alone feeling is so awful. Do I just go through it? When I do I seem to survive and come out okay.

You seem to be doing a great job coping with these down feelings. Perhaps you need to remind yourself over and over that you can do this.

 

One thing the medicalization of emotion has done to some people is make them afraid of their feelings. They're your feelings, they're not a disease. You can manage them.

 

Yep, the only way out is through!

 

Can you think about ways to alleviate the aloneness? Perhaps taking walks, talking to people, petting dogs you meet? (If Fefe would still speak to you!

 

I read in the NYTimes about training a cat to walk on a leash. They seem to enjoy going out with their humans. Would that be fun for Fefe?)

 

Then, whatever alone feelings are left over, you can manage with the new skills you're learning.

 

I have no doubt you are going to become an inspiration for all of us.

[fefesmom]

hi. Spectio and Altostrata. You are so right. These feelings do come and go. I have signs "Gentle and Kind" in varous places to remind me to be that way especially when I am getting frenzied. Now I am 3 months off Effexor and indeed am feeling things that drug just numbed out. It is so much better, even (in hindsight) during those difficult times, to be awake and aware and feeling things. I read somewhere recently, maybe in a book recommended here that "Brahms is the best antidepressant". I'm reprogramming my ipod as another tool. Listening to Jon Kabat Zinn dvd for meditation these days is very helpful; his voice is totally soothing. Thanks again to you for being there. I keep saying it. I really mean it.

[Altostrata]

fefes, you are doing such a great job learning to take care of yourself, thank you for sharing your journey with us.

[peggy]

Listening to Jon Kabat Zinn dvd for meditation these days is very helpful; his voice is totally soothing.

 

i soo agree with this - he has a great voice for meditation tapes

[Barbarannamated]

I need that tape

Really out of sorts since holiday

 

Fefe ~

You project a zen feeling through your writing --i wish you could feel the calm that comes through ~

I'm sure you were /are an exceptional therapist

 

I came across a Buddhist website and blog that hit home with me --Unfettered Mind --will try to post the article I found especially helpful

 

Fefe I always picture you splashing playfully in surf since your mention of Marina del Rey ~or relaxing in the sun on a nice yacht ……

[fefesmom]

Hi Barbarannamated. This SA site and you are my lifeline and your last post made me feel so good. Many times people have said I project calm - maybe some day I will feel it for longer periods of time! Anyhow, go to google and put in jon kabat zinn - he must have a million entries and you can get his dvds and books on Amazon, itunes or his website. I use especially The Mindful Way Through Depression ( by JKZ, M. Williams, J. Teasdale and Z. Segal) which comes with a dvd. The more textbookish version is called Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy for Depression by Z. Segal, J Williams and J. Teasdale. The JKZ book made the textbookish book more user-friendly and helpful.

I am going to check out that site you mentioned - Unfettered mind. What did we do before the internet??? It's too cold to frolic in the ocean even though it is a gorgeous 80+ degrees today.

[fefesmom]

whoops. Too many clicks there.

[Altostrata]

No problem, I deleted the triplicated posts.

[spectio]

Hi, fefesmom just thought I'd check up on you. How was your day? My daughter lives in L.A. It was 83 yesterday, she told me and hot. Actually, it was probably 65 here which is terrific after three weeks of really cold weather. I was breaking the animal' water everyday.. Today I was riding my bike. Kiss Fefe for me!

[fefesmom]

Hi Spectio. I am doing well today. The heat is kind of nice and not as awful as it is in the summer. I guess the angle of sun, or of the earth, makes it feel different and the nights are nice and cool. FeFe is not a happy camper. She is going to a nice pet hotel on Tuesday for four weeks while I visit my sister in Florida. She actually gets along well there and even plays with the other cats in "community". I got out her carrier today to desensitize her and she ran away but now she seems to have forgotten about it. She is a riot and thanks you for the kiss I gave her from you. Even though I won't be home, I will have access to computer/email so will keep in touch. Thanks...

[fefesmom]

Hello again. I have been visiting my sister in Florida for a month and got back to L.A. three days ago. When I went on ad it was a year after my mother died; I was sad, crying a lot. I always went to work, always got up and dressed, can't recall appetite or sleep but I think they were okay. At any rate, I don't think I had a clinical depression - maybe long grief. Anyhow, this was my first visit since going off ads in Oct. 2011. My sister lives in the house my mother lived in (we both own it now). I got so sad there - all I wanted to do was stay there and enjoy the cocoon of being with my sister (who is quite socially isolated by choice). I did have good times with my sister - so it wasn't all difficult. Anyhow, since I got home I have been having episodes of sobbing, wanting to go back to Florida which I think are really wanting to get another chance with my mother (which of course is impossible since she died in 1995. I was not close to her at all but we had an amiable relationship.These are same feelings I had before the *** strongly suggested ad and I went along. I feel so alone, afraid for the future, think my salvation lies in Florida. I am long-divorced and did not have children. As I write this, it doesn't seem so awful or so unusual but when I am in the midst of a sobbing time I feel so hopeless but not really depressed. My thoughts are quite negative though and I'm afraid I will have to go back on ads but I would rather live through my sadness and fears of the future. I will be 70 in April (seems impossible) so I am sure that is part of what is going on but not all of it. My friends seem very glad to have me back and they missed me. However, they do not make up for the emptiness I feel when I am alone, which is most of the time. I do have things planned for the next week or two and will force myself to go to them even if I feel lousy. I know it is worse for me to stay home and mope which I don't do a lot. Anyone have any ideas about this ? Do you think it is the depression? Should I go back on ads? I do see a therapist every 5-6 weeks and will be taking a cognitive therapy group in March. It is the inbetwen times when I am by myself that are so hard. Any comments will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Karma]

Fefesmom,

 

I think you are having some delayed withdrawal symptoms. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy can probably help - that and time. I don't think you need to go back to the meds.

 

I know for me when I have work to go to it actually helps me pull out of irrational fears, worry, or thoughts of doom. I think if you will hang in there and go to your commitments the next week or two, you'll find that they actually help you pull out of your rumination.

 

It may be worth considering returning to Florida, but you need to think through that logically and not make a decision based on emotions. Would your sister welcome you? Would Fefe be ok with the move? What do you have in LA that you love or that gives you comfort that you wouldn't have in Florida? Change can be good and it is usually better if it is something we initiate rather than having it happen to us.

 

It sounds like going back to your childhood home brought up some issues from your past that may not be completely healed. Maybe the therapist can help you sort through those.

 

Hang in there - we're here for you.

 

Karma

[Altostrata]

Fefes, perhaps you really want to live near your sister!

 

Our emotions exist to point us in the way we should go. You may be feeling what you want, but you're sad because you don't think you can have it. If it's realistic, perhaps you should do it, if your condition isn't too fragile.

[fefesmom]

Many thanks to Karma and Alto for your comments. I have obsessed about moving to Florida ever since my mother died and I decided to put it on hold for now - discussed it with my sister because I don't think it is right to get her hopes up (she would like me to move there) and then not follow through. Also not fair to me. But, boy, I feel crappy since I got back - so sad, so alone. I'm not sure this can be "fixed" but I don't think I can live like this for the rest of my life either. I could go to Florida for 6 months or a year and see how it was I guess. But then I worry what if my sister dies first (she is younger but you never know) and then I am stuck in Florida, where I would never move or even think about it if it weren't for my sister. And if she had stayed in Boston I don't think the pull there would be the same. Florida is all mushed up with my mother. I think Karma is right about the visit (my first without ads) stirring up old stuff. So glad you are there.

[fefesmom]

Hi again. Has anyone heard of a thing called abandonment depression? I heard about it first reading Alice Miller's The Drama of the Gifted Child years ago. It really resonated for me. Now I think that is what I may be grappling with now that I'm off the ads. I believe those ads just blunted all feelings and really didn't do me any good at dealing with things that are cropping up now that I am ad-free. But I do feel a bit hopeful. I never thought I had regular depression after my mother died - it seemed even deeper somehow. So, if anyone has any information on/experience with abandonment depression I would appreciate hearing from you. I've googled it and there are many entries - I'd like to hear about it from people on this site. Thanks again.

[Barbarannamated]

Fefe ~

I haven't heard of that but will look at the book now -

Barb

[Altostrata]

Fefes, how about opening a topic on this in the Symptoms forum?

[Barbarannamated]

Great idea!

Alice Miller challenges much of what I've learned in therapy (and various spiritual groups) along the way and would love to hear others opinions--especially therapists.