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Early-morning waking - managing the morning cortisol spike


Altostrata

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Sometimes, or maybe more often i am able to mindfully observe my struggle, but it does not change my feelings.

It is almost as if the evening-me was a different person compared with morning-me, as if there was no connection between those two...

But it must be!

 

My morning horrors, powerless feelings and low mood pulled me into looking for a quck fix and taking escitalopram...

 

I need to figure this out somehow...

But as I remember my parents were always in a bad mood in the morning...

- 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg

- 6.11.2020- 75mg

- 16.10.2020- 100mg

- 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg

- May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg

- 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg

- 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day

- 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan 

- Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine

- 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening

24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on  19.03.2020 😇

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Lol. Don't think its hereditary in this case. There are physiological reasons why we are worse in the morning. And yes. I improve as the day wears on then frequently dip towards bedtime . Then groundhell day begins again.

Paxil 10mg 21/2 years to June 2012 after a 2 month taper

 

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I've read about the benefits of theanine in black tea for cortisol reduction. I already drink one cup a day in the afternoon. I'm wary of drinking more because of the caffeine, but perhaps I will experiment with a cup of tea in the morning, instead of a cup of decaf coffee.

 

If drinking black tea for theanine, you may want to consider drinking guayusa instead, which has a very high theanine content.   Guayusa is a species of holly that is found in the Ecuadorian rainforest.  You make a tea out of it.  It tastes like Camellia sinesis, (black tea), but is naturally sweet and smooth.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilex_guayusa

 

I buy it by the pound on Amazon.com, and brew 4tb to 18 cups of water for 30 minutes.   Out of several distributors I ordered from, Runa is the brand I found the freshest: http://www.amazon.com/Runa-Amazon-Guayusa-Traditional-Tea/dp/B004FSASKU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420357729&sr=8-1&keywords=runa+pound

 

Unlike black tea, guayusa is not bitter and contain tannins that can cause staining and stomach upset.  Also it is best to avoid black/green tea, as it is very effective at pulling fluoride from the ground into the leaves.  Fluoride is very toxic, causes a wide variety of health detriments, and should avoided when possible.

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2005/02/09/fluoride-tea.aspx

 

I wouldn't worry about feeling too caffeinated from drinking tea or guayusa(which contains caffeine), as the high theanine content blunts the jittery effects of the caffeine.

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If trying to lower cortisol, Holy Basil is an excellent herb that can lower your cortisol.   It also will help regulate your blood sugars, so may help you feel more balanced throughout the day.

 

http://www.emaxhealth.com/1357/holy-basil-may-decrease-stress-hormone-cortisol

 

Please use caution though if you have lower-than-normal blood pressure, as Holy Basil will lower your blood pressure and might cause you to become dizzy.

 

I buy loose by the pound, and usually boil a level table spoon to 3-4 cups of water for 5 minutes, then let it sit for an additional 5 minutes. 

 

Here's the vendor I buy from:  http://www.amazon.com/Tulsi-Holy-Basil-Organic-Herbal/dp/B0052OQ3O6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420358196&sr=8-1&keywords=holy+basil+organic+pound

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If trying to lower cortisol, Holy Basil is an excellent herb that can lower your cortisol.

 

We have a thread about it here. Not a magic bullet to reduce cortisol, it seems, but ymmv.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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I've read about the benefits of theanine in black tea for cortisol reduction. I already drink one cup a day in the afternoon. I'm wary of drinking more because of the caffeine, but perhaps I will experiment with a cup of tea in the morning, instead of a cup of decaf coffee.

 

If drinking black tea for theanine, you may want to consider drinking guayusa instead, which has a very high theanine content.

 

<snip>

 

I wouldn't worry about feeling too caffeinated from drinking tea or guayusa(which contains caffeine), as the high theanine content blunts the jittery effects of the caffeine.

 

 

And we have visited 'guayusa" already. In that thread many report the use of 'green tea' to get theanine (even the decaf variety) is problematic. Caffeine in any form (even decaf) seems to make wd insomnia worse. Taurine is added to red bull to reduce the jitters too but I would not touch it with a ten foot pole (even though I can now have a bit of regular coffee in the morning now). But I had to cold turkey all caffeine (including chocolate) for a whole year till wd settled down.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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Hi all. Though this will test your credulity, I've made progress on the morning terrors and other things, and I can only think of one thing I have changed. (No, this is not an ad.)

I got interested in a recipe called "bulletproof coffee," which is black coffee, BUTTER, and medium-chain triglycerides (MCTs). There's a web site by the inventor and a recent NYTimes.com article which I will link below.

I bought something on Amazon that was an instant coffee with the MCTs added, and added my own organic butter. You blend that with hot water. It's not made by the original inventor.

I was wary about drinking coffee, which I'd given up in favor of tea, of which I drank a few cups a day, though not usually after the afternoon.

Okay, so I've been doing this only since Dec 28th with any regularity. But since then:

1. For the last 3-4 days, I am not waking up with terror or dread. I'm back to just waking up and getting out of bed to deal with the dogs, and drink the coffee. (I'm still depressed and feel lost and lonely, though.) I don't have the desperate desire to be asleep again. I guess I feel like I have slept, for a change.

2. The last two nights, I hardly felt like drinking. I'd been drinking a lot of beer at night to force myself into sleep without pharma drugs, and it was out of hand. I did drink 3 Friday night and 2 last night, but that's nothing. When drinking a lot of beer (5-6 a night), I would always wake up at 1am and take whatever pill was on hand if I wanted to sleep. This might have been seroquel, lunesta, xanax, unisom, benadryl. (FYI I no longer have any pharma pills; only been using unison and benadryl lately.)

 

3. The last two nights, I have gone to sleep without any pills of any kind, have not awakened in the middle of the night with insomnia.

 

4. I don't feel like I need a cup of tea to "wake myself up" at any time during the day.

I'm not especially following the rest of the diet in this article, but I guess I avoid starch and sugar, esp. sugar. (One casualty of my w/d has been my sweet tooth--yay.)

 

I really cannot swear by this. I'm just reporting that I tried the bulletproof coffee for the mental benefits, and seem to have found those as well as physical ones.

 

On the mysterious side, the last two nights I have had bizarre events of syncope/near-fainting. Nearly lost consciousness Friday, had to slide my back down a wall sit on the floor and didn't know who or where I was for many seconds. And I could barely walk to my bed before passing out last night, when the feeling hit. I am seeing my GP this week and will tell her, though she thinks I am mentally unbalanced, based on how sick and emotional I was with Effexor+++ W/D I was when I first went to her.

Also I know we all expect caffeine to make us feel worse. This definitely could make others feel worse, even though I feel much better. Maybe the butter and the MCTs prevent the jittery effect.

 

This is the page about the coffee on the inventor's web site.

https://www.bulletproofexec.com/how-to-make-your-coffee-bulletproof-and-your-morning-too/

 

General article about the fad. (Funny that the doctor they interview dismisses it on principle without trying it, but hey, doctors know everything. She says carbs, not fats, are brain food. Well, maybe my brain needs LESS FOOD and more lubrication :)
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/14/style/the-cult-of-the-bulletproof-coffee-diet.html

2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink.

2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ...

Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.
2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures.

:o 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years.

I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body.

2015: I  began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning.

I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral.

And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. 

I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up.

In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body.   :unsure:

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PS I've just done some reading about ketogenic diets and found out that they can be dangerous. Sounds like it should be done under medical supervision. But also of interest was an article with two case studies of using ketogenic diet to manage bipolar symptoms without medications.

2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink.

2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ...

Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.
2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures.

:o 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years.

I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body.

2015: I  began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning.

I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral.

And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. 

I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up.

In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body.   :unsure:

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I have those "middle of the night" awakenings usually after a dream.  The heart beats fast, I feel hot, racing thoughts, and adrenaline around my chest/tummy.  I have been doing great since 2011, where I recovered from Lexapro w/d.  My issue has got to be the Cipro I took back in July.  I feel like I have been losing my mind but Dr Weekes has been my Saint 

Lexparo 10mg user for 2.5 years. Last dose was 2/27/2008 after a fast 1 month taper. Recovered around 2011. Had issues with depression, anxiety, akathasia, inner restlessness, vertigo, insomnia, loss of appetite, eye floaters just to name a few. Basically rode it out, employing the Dr. Claire Weekes method.

 

Took Cipro in July of 2014 and have been having set backs with nausea, vertigo, anxiety (racing thoughts), and depression the last half of 2014.

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I was having them without remembering the dream. But I would wake up at 1:15, heart pounding, and my right arm over my head. EVERY night for months, in 2013. Lately I have been waking up, but not in panic, and have been able to fall back asleep. Also, now when I wake up around 6:30 am, I just get up like I used to before all this. I don't have the hell helmet/dread/terror phenomenon this week.

I have heard about Cipro. Very bad.  A friend got the achilles tendon thing, but recovered after having to use a cane and suffering a lot of pain.

2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink.

2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ...

Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.
2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures.

:o 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years.

I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body.

2015: I  began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning.

I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral.

And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. 

I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up.

In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body.   :unsure:

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Glad to hear you are improving, Cressida. I also appreciate hearing about sugar at this exact moment, as it has made me think. I hadn't given it much thought, but I had a Great day Tuesday and ate a pint of ice cream at night for the first time in ages. Wednesday was rather glum. Could be connected. Let's see how today goes...no sugar yesterday.

2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink.

2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ...

Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.
2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures.

:o 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years.

I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body.

2015: I  began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning.

I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral.

And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. 

I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up.

In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body.   :unsure:

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This has just started for me, having had it for years on and off not knowing what it was.

 

Woke up v anxious, adrenaline rushing at 4am, managed to go back to sleep with the help of this man:

 

http://www.innerbalancehypnotherapy.com/Store/TransformationalMp3s/tabid/237/Default.aspx

 

Scroll down for anxiety relief.

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

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Cortisol mornings..more like days..just now and when had it many times before, the adrenaline feeling only subsides at 2pm if I'm lucky.

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

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Cipro, Levaquin, Avelox, Floxin (Fluoroquinolone antibiotics)--Poison! My daughter was poisoned at 16. She still has major issues 4 1/2 years later. I was surprised to find where someone started a link on here about those antibiotics. You might want to check it out. I think it's called "Do you really want to take Cipro or Levaquin" or something like that. The answer is, "No, you do not!!" There are other antibiotics, and these basically are toxic to everyone. The damage is cumulative. They may get you the first time you take them, the second, third, fifth or tenth--but they WILL get you!!

Zoloft 100 mg. daily for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome since Oct. 1994 / Synthroid 88 mcg. daily / Supplements: Neptune Krill Oil-1,000 mg. twice daily/Astaxanthin 10 mg. twice daily/Ubiquinol 100 mg. twice daily (These 3 have allowed me to discontinue (approved by doctor) bp meds I was on. Calcium Citrate 500 mg. daily/Vitamin D3 2,400 iu daily/K2 (MK7) 100 mcg daily (osteopenia and fam. hist. of severe osteoporosis). Stress B Complex (1/2 dose)/Quercetin (for allergies/asthma)/Magnesium (400 mg. oral glycinate and about 50 mg. magnesium chloride spray oil a day, divided throughout day).

Tapered Zoloft about 6 wks. Totally off since the end of July (25-29, 2014). 3 wks. vertigo at end of taper, then 3-4 wks. OK, followed by withdrawal symptoms increasing in severity (nausea, gastric disturbances, loss of appetite, insomnia, restlessness, jitters, anxiety, agitation--jumping out of my skin--possible akathisia?) Seem to have paradoxical reactions to everything new, even Vitamin C. Severity of akathisia comes and goes, but is constant to some degree. Hard to leave house, and cannot be home alone. (Retired)

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Have been waking up recently with an immediate thought of 'want to die' 'don't want to be here', which is strange seeing as I felt better yesterday afternoon and I feel better now ( 3 hrs later). And I actually don't think feel those things only a few hrs later.

2000 - sertraline for job anxiety low confidence (17 years old) ..which turned the next 16 years into nightmare!

 

On/off sertraline severe withdrawals every time. 2014 - felt better as reduced dose of sertraline no more inner restlessness. Doctor rushed off again. Hit severe withdrawal. Lost the little I had in life. Couldn't get stable again on 12.5mg. Was switched to prozac. Had severe reaction to prozac..came off in November 2015 at 6mg as felt more confused and damaged on it..Even more withdrawal ..rage, depression, dyphoria, near constant suicidal ideation, self harm impulses, doom, concrete block in head, unable to do much of anything with this feeling in head..went back on 6mg of sertraline to see if would alleviate anything. It didn't..reduced from December to June 2016 came off at 2.5mg sertraline as was hospitalised for the severe rage, suicidal impulses, and put on 50mg lofepramine which in 2nd week reduced all symptoms but gave insomnia which still have..psych stopped lofepramine cold turkey..no increased withdrawal symptoms new symptoms from lofepramine except persistant insomnia which has as side effect.

 

Taking Ativan for 8 months for the severe rage self harm impulses 1-3 times a week (mostly 2 times a week) at .5mg. Two months (I'm unsure exactly when the interdose started to happen) ago interdose withdrawal seemed to happen..2 days I think after the Ativan.

 

 

Nightmare that could have been avoided!

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Hi, I see everyone struggling so hard and just want to say that I battled cortisol mornings for 3 years straight and have come out the other side.

 

 

At the beginning, given the old scale of 1-10 I labeled my nights and mornings at a 15. It took 2 ½ years before I got any feeling that I might heal from this, then 6 months for it to really pull together. A couple of weeks ago I really thought that I was completely over it but not quite - I still have mild cortisol mornings sometimes. Still, the current ‘bad’ nights and mornings are only a hint of what they used to be (maybe a 2 or a 3), and what I learned, during the worst of it, pretty easily gets me through. I’m no longer frightened or worry about cortisol mornings. I still have other symptoms on my “to do” list, but hopeless morning despair is not one of them. I still sleep less and regularly wake in the middle of the night, but that’s OK. And who knows? It’s all bonus from now on.

 

So, I just want to say – it really does heal.  :)  Take care, everybody. Heart

In 2004 was initially put on Effexor, but by 2007 I had a whole cocktail going - 112.5 mg Effexor, 200 mg Buproprion SR, 250 mg Depakote, and 27mg Concerta ER. I switched psychiatrists to get off of everything.  Systematically, my new psychiatrist took me down – last to go was the Effexor, which he switched to Prozac to soften the reaction.  My last pill was July 2011. Although with every change, up or down, I felt a bit rotten and flu-like, I would return to normal within a few weeks. Looking back, perhaps I felt a bit crabby, but I had no hint that I was in trouble until November 2011 when I experienced something odd - I got no buzz from an occasional glass of wine. By Jan 20112 I was hit, full force – insomnia, no dreams, pacing, twitchy, chemical despair – later:  tingling sensations, audio distortion ... Many symptoms have improved, some have not, some have morphed. I am still struggling, 3 years out. 

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Dear AS:

 

I am experiencing a really bad cortisol am today...feelings of dread. Good to know others have been able to get past this...eventually.

1998-2010. Zoloft 100 mgs.

3/2010. Switched to generic Z and began not to feel well.

7/2010. Estrogen patch added which caused severe depression.

8/2010 to 10/2010. Zoloft increased from 100 mgs to 200 mgs., Klonopin .25 mgs in am; .50 mgs pm; Remeron

.25 mgs. added by new doc

1/2011. Began tapering K; last dose of K 7/2011.

11/2011 Began Remeron taper; last dose of R 1/2012 (Tapered K & R by dry cutting)

1/2013 Began tapering Z from 200 mgs to 100 mgs by dry cutting

3/2013. Experiencing wd sx...took break

9/2013. Down to 150 mgs.

2/2014 - Present. 100 mgs Z

1-21-15. Began dry cutting 100 mgs.

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It will get better...it always does...it is possible to get it past this. I know it from my previous tapper...

- 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg

- 6.11.2020- 75mg

- 16.10.2020- 100mg

- 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg

- May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg

- 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg

- 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day

- 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan 

- Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine

- 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening

24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on  19.03.2020 😇

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Hi Sunflower, my heart is with you. I can say that I am no longer experiencing morning terror, which plagued me for almost two years.

 

I can't be sure what's happened to make it go away, but I did start on Magnesium and Taurine, which are described elsewhere on this site. I also supplement vitamin D and B complex, along with more basic supplements such as C, and probiotics. My next addition will be a PREBIOTIC, which is something I just learned about, and is worth googling.

 

I am also now using the 'bulletproof coffee' recipe for breakfast. It is black coffee with butter and coconut oil, the latter of which is a medium chain triglyceride. I make it in a blender. It feels like the nerves in my head have been soothed.

 

I hope you start to experience recovery somehow or other. What you are going through is close to intolerable and you are the hero of your own life as you struggle and continue to seek help in places like this.

2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink.

2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ...

Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.
2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures.

:o 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years.

I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body.

2015: I  began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning.

I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral.

And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. 

I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up.

In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body.   :unsure:

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I have morning dread every morning without fail.  Wake at 5 am (if not earlier), and lay there feeling overwhelmed and having somewhat stressful issues blow up in my mind and get me more wound up.  I have found that if I just get up, it really helps.  Even if I get up and relocate to read a book, it is somewhat better.  The main thing is just for me to get moving and it wears off mid-morning.

 

Interesting though, I've read some about morning light causing this, but here in Alaska, we often don't have daylight until 10 am or later, and the dread happens no matter what...

 

:(

1998- Began taking 20 mg. of Paxil for homesickness 2001-CT and crash/hospitalized 1 week for anxiety. Tried quitting, changing to other ADs, gave up. 2014 -Weaned @ 10% every 4 weeks. Latest 5-14 11.7 mg., 6-14 10.5 mg., 8-21 9.5 mg., 9-17 7.7 mg.,10-14 6.9 mg., 11-14 6.2 mg., 12-14 5.6 mg., 1-15 5.0 mg. 2-15 4.5 mg. (miscalculated may actually be 3.3), up-dosed to 3.7 3-17-15. Hydroxyzine HCl 25 mg. as needed (antihistamine) for anxiety.

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Ikam and Cressida -  :)  (btw, I love Claire Weeks too)

 


It is like a mistery for me- why I done follow my wise mind in the morning and let the emotions to overhelm me to the state of panic?!

I wonder what strategies people have developed?

 

Just in case this might be helpful, here’s the strategy I worked off of - my radical rules of the night

 

1)      Never look at the clock

2)      The loneliness and despair is a chemical mirage – there is no figuring it out.

3)      Rebel - create my own antidote mirage – at the 1st hint of despair grab the headphones (in bed and prepped) listen only to happy, courageous, inspiring, soothing music or meditation tracts. While listening to the tracts always double down, practicing calming meditation.

4)      Don’t worry about the number of hours of sleep, and that includes zero, if it’s a matter of life and death, my body will sleep – meanwhile, calming meditation helps provide some rejuvenation.

5)      Any crazy feelings of shame – pull them out by the roots.

 

Wishing you all a peaceful night. Heart.

In 2004 was initially put on Effexor, but by 2007 I had a whole cocktail going - 112.5 mg Effexor, 200 mg Buproprion SR, 250 mg Depakote, and 27mg Concerta ER. I switched psychiatrists to get off of everything.  Systematically, my new psychiatrist took me down – last to go was the Effexor, which he switched to Prozac to soften the reaction.  My last pill was July 2011. Although with every change, up or down, I felt a bit rotten and flu-like, I would return to normal within a few weeks. Looking back, perhaps I felt a bit crabby, but I had no hint that I was in trouble until November 2011 when I experienced something odd - I got no buzz from an occasional glass of wine. By Jan 20112 I was hit, full force – insomnia, no dreams, pacing, twitchy, chemical despair – later:  tingling sensations, audio distortion ... Many symptoms have improved, some have not, some have morphed. I am still struggling, 3 years out. 

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I have morning dread every morning without fail. Wake at 5 am (if not earlier), and lay there feeling overwhelmed and having somewhat stressful issues blow up in my mind and get me more wound up. I have found that if I just get up, it really helps. Even if I get up and relocate to read a book, it is somewhat better. The main thing is just for me to get moving and it wears off mid-morning.

 

Interesting though, I've read some about morning light causing this, but here in Alaska, we often don't have daylight until 10 am or later, and the dread happens no matter what...

 

:(

Yup mine starts in the night and early morning and its pitch black in the uk currently plus I have black out curtains. Light isn't the trigger for me either

Paxil 10mg 21/2 years to June 2012 after a 2 month taper

 

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OH MY GOD!!! thank you for the topic and especially the headline! WORST thing about wd/ad/psychmeds. 

one thing that really helps me (when I can remember it, which is a few minutes after my nervous system has killed a wild tiger, a wild elephant, and a wild dinosaur) is to just say to myself over & over "this is my cortisol overfiring, not me"

"this is my cortisol overfiring, not me"

"this is my cortisol overfiring, not me"

"this is my cortisol overfiring, not me"

"this is my cortisol overfiring, not me"

"this is my cortisol overfiring, not me"

"this is my cortisol overfiring, not me"

2002: "Situational depression" 2002-2010:Prozac.Birth Control.2011 Short trials: Paxil, Celexa, Lexipro, Wellbutrin, Xanax, Ativan- Gee, Doc never mentioned protracted AD wd syndrome. Imagine that. 2011-2015. Lamictal. Seroquel. Remiron. 2012: "Complex post traumatic stress disorder." Fast taper of Remiron jumped off June 2013. Slow tapers ever since of Seroquel & Lamictal.  crippling muscle spasms. crying fits. panic attacks. akathisia. nerve twitches. the jitters. the heebie jeebies. de-personal/realization. numbness. tingling. fatigue. lethargy. nightmares.insomnia. weird images. eye pain.vertigo. dizziness. brain zaps. and on and on and on. withdrawal? side effects? which drug? impossible to know. Stopped Seroquel October 2015.  Stopped Lamictal  March 2016. Had more severe muscle/joint spasms that paralyzed me for 3 days at a time, last episode was March 2017.Going back to work as of February 2018 after 14 years off full-time work due to the crippling effects of psych meds. Check out Robert Whittaker "Anatomy of an Epidemic" for  his breakdown of the rates of mental disability  since the introduction of Prozac into the human population. Best solutions for me: Social support via AA meetings. Acupuncture. Meditation. Dance. Nature. Yoga. Social support online with psych med survivor community. Nutrition. Exercise. More outdoor time. Go sit in the sunshine for 5 minutes. Touch a tree. Breathe deeply.

 

 

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I go to a 7am AA meeting. This is somewhat of a paradoxical intervention as my problem was never alcohol but psych meds and I can not discuss psych med wd in AA without everyone having a conniption fit since at least half of them are ON psych meds and VERY DEFENSIVE about it, 

however

getting into a room with lots of other people very cheery and drinking coffee makes a world of difference for this morning panic terror

and by the way I am ECSTATIC to read so many other posts about this

I bookmarked this page and I think I might just have to read it FIRST THING when I wake up tomorrow

2002: "Situational depression" 2002-2010:Prozac.Birth Control.2011 Short trials: Paxil, Celexa, Lexipro, Wellbutrin, Xanax, Ativan- Gee, Doc never mentioned protracted AD wd syndrome. Imagine that. 2011-2015. Lamictal. Seroquel. Remiron. 2012: "Complex post traumatic stress disorder." Fast taper of Remiron jumped off June 2013. Slow tapers ever since of Seroquel & Lamictal.  crippling muscle spasms. crying fits. panic attacks. akathisia. nerve twitches. the jitters. the heebie jeebies. de-personal/realization. numbness. tingling. fatigue. lethargy. nightmares.insomnia. weird images. eye pain.vertigo. dizziness. brain zaps. and on and on and on. withdrawal? side effects? which drug? impossible to know. Stopped Seroquel October 2015.  Stopped Lamictal  March 2016. Had more severe muscle/joint spasms that paralyzed me for 3 days at a time, last episode was March 2017.Going back to work as of February 2018 after 14 years off full-time work due to the crippling effects of psych meds. Check out Robert Whittaker "Anatomy of an Epidemic" for  his breakdown of the rates of mental disability  since the introduction of Prozac into the human population. Best solutions for me: Social support via AA meetings. Acupuncture. Meditation. Dance. Nature. Yoga. Social support online with psych med survivor community. Nutrition. Exercise. More outdoor time. Go sit in the sunshine for 5 minutes. Touch a tree. Breathe deeply.

 

 

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well, well, well.

my super bad cortisol mornings started in 2011, right when I dropped into full on menopause after stopping birth control pills, and just as I tapered off of Ativan.

of course, I was also in ad wd same time, but I didn't know it. had tapered my Prozac on my own, as I hated my doc and had stopped talking to him.

 

really the only thing that really works for me is a really intense ballet class, however, due to menopause, unemployment, withdrawal, the empty car syndrome (that's when your only child starts driving his own car) and death of Mom all hitting at once, there have been numerous logistical & financial issues with getting to ballet class, however, I am happy to report that I believe I am finally back to it only 4 years later

2002: "Situational depression" 2002-2010:Prozac.Birth Control.2011 Short trials: Paxil, Celexa, Lexipro, Wellbutrin, Xanax, Ativan- Gee, Doc never mentioned protracted AD wd syndrome. Imagine that. 2011-2015. Lamictal. Seroquel. Remiron. 2012: "Complex post traumatic stress disorder." Fast taper of Remiron jumped off June 2013. Slow tapers ever since of Seroquel & Lamictal.  crippling muscle spasms. crying fits. panic attacks. akathisia. nerve twitches. the jitters. the heebie jeebies. de-personal/realization. numbness. tingling. fatigue. lethargy. nightmares.insomnia. weird images. eye pain.vertigo. dizziness. brain zaps. and on and on and on. withdrawal? side effects? which drug? impossible to know. Stopped Seroquel October 2015.  Stopped Lamictal  March 2016. Had more severe muscle/joint spasms that paralyzed me for 3 days at a time, last episode was March 2017.Going back to work as of February 2018 after 14 years off full-time work due to the crippling effects of psych meds. Check out Robert Whittaker "Anatomy of an Epidemic" for  his breakdown of the rates of mental disability  since the introduction of Prozac into the human population. Best solutions for me: Social support via AA meetings. Acupuncture. Meditation. Dance. Nature. Yoga. Social support online with psych med survivor community. Nutrition. Exercise. More outdoor time. Go sit in the sunshine for 5 minutes. Touch a tree. Breathe deeply.

 

 

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westcoast: "I think I have cortisol mornings, too. Is the dread I experience upon awakening considered part of a cortisol morning? I must say it's the most horrible, horrible feeling. Words don't do it justice, but it seems a lot of posters here are talking about the same thing.


 


In the past, before my psych med troubles, I'd experience low moods and sadness and lethargy and various symptoms of "depression." But nothing I experienced before comes close to this black dread. It's cosmic in scope. From the moment my eyes open I simply wish to cease existing, but it's not something I would call a suicidal urge. It's more hopeless than that."


 


westcoast said it better than i could have. perfectly articulated.


2002: "Situational depression" 2002-2010:Prozac.Birth Control.2011 Short trials: Paxil, Celexa, Lexipro, Wellbutrin, Xanax, Ativan- Gee, Doc never mentioned protracted AD wd syndrome. Imagine that. 2011-2015. Lamictal. Seroquel. Remiron. 2012: "Complex post traumatic stress disorder." Fast taper of Remiron jumped off June 2013. Slow tapers ever since of Seroquel & Lamictal.  crippling muscle spasms. crying fits. panic attacks. akathisia. nerve twitches. the jitters. the heebie jeebies. de-personal/realization. numbness. tingling. fatigue. lethargy. nightmares.insomnia. weird images. eye pain.vertigo. dizziness. brain zaps. and on and on and on. withdrawal? side effects? which drug? impossible to know. Stopped Seroquel October 2015.  Stopped Lamictal  March 2016. Had more severe muscle/joint spasms that paralyzed me for 3 days at a time, last episode was March 2017.Going back to work as of February 2018 after 14 years off full-time work due to the crippling effects of psych meds. Check out Robert Whittaker "Anatomy of an Epidemic" for  his breakdown of the rates of mental disability  since the introduction of Prozac into the human population. Best solutions for me: Social support via AA meetings. Acupuncture. Meditation. Dance. Nature. Yoga. Social support online with psych med survivor community. Nutrition. Exercise. More outdoor time. Go sit in the sunshine for 5 minutes. Touch a tree. Breathe deeply.

 

 

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I think people experience things differently. My experience isn't depressive its blind terror , fear , I couldn't leave the house and get myself to a meeting, class. Fear am about to die etc. reverse of suicidal want to live ! Yours sound equally horrendous but different. Good you ve found healthy ways of coping

Paxil 10mg 21/2 years to June 2012 after a 2 month taper

 

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Yep, I've experienced the cortisol thing in various manifestations: dread, panic, agoraphobia (pretty much always agoraphobia). What they all have in common is that in the evening I feel much better than I do in the morning, even cheery and happy and optimistic. 

 

Then I have to go to bed and it starts over. Grrr.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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We all experience cortisol problems. But is there anyone that tried high doses of vitamin c and had success ?

 

I read a bit about it on the benzo board and some say it improved their sleep.

 

I have never tried it though .

Cold turkeyed Paxil in May 2012  :ph34r:

 

Finally recovered / see success story :)

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To be honest am too frightened to try anything. Am doing my best to let my brain find its own level. I take the same supplements I ve always taken from before head meds and think its wise to avoid high doses of anything. Sugar can wreak complete havoc with my brain and am now wary of putting anything else into the mix. Magnesium in high doses disagreed with me so troughing it out

Paxil 10mg 21/2 years to June 2012 after a 2 month taper

 

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Am two years seven months off and intermittently in hell . Sometimes just in hells waiting room. Drinking a couple of glasses of wine a day for 4 months to help with muscle tension and stress has caused nightmares and left me super sensitive to substances which I wasn't before and really has put my recovery back..... Hence why am so cautious . I feel for you its a long time to be suffering

Paxil 10mg 21/2 years to June 2012 after a 2 month taper

 

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Just beginning to have absolute terror starting at 4am.  Really increases my already extreme DR/DP.  I have intense inner shaking and my teeth actually chatter.  I feel totally INSANE and lose a sense of where I am.  I have to have a clock next to me as I am so disconnected to time and space that I panic if I don't know what time it is...

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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Am so sorry Selma. Its truely horrific and I always feel isolated and alone from the universe when it happens. Put the light and TV on. Claire weekes on headphones.

Paxil 10mg 21/2 years to June 2012 after a 2 month taper

 

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Selma, I hate that morning terror and I regret that you are having it. I don't have it right now. When I did I developed the habit of turning on the light and reading something light.

 

I did well with "Free Country" by George Mamoud, the true story of him a friend bargaining and begging their way the length of England. I realize a book won't cure us, but it was funny and in a certain way might have started me on a good path. I read his other books and those recommended by him...also funny travel books. It is good to have an "arsenal" of stuff to do at 4am.

 

2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink.

2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ...

Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.
2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures.

:o 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years.

I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body.

2015: I  began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning.

I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral.

And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. 

I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up.

In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body.   :unsure:

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Reading this while having my cortisol morning. Woke at 5am with mild symptoms. Went quickly back to sleep and had vivid unpleasant dreams. Having a lot of those lately . Woke again with stronger pounding about 730am. It does seem to be the case that if I go back to sleep after an early morning Wakening the symptoms are worse. But having had so much insomnia and early waking its a luxury to be able to go back to sleep. The situation is a lot better than it was at its worse. Am going to get my breakfast and bring it back to bed. At the start these mornings were so bad I would be in a frenzy of anxiety with burning body and pounding heart. So they're still unpleasant but a lot less so

Paxil 10mg 21/2 years to June 2012 after a 2 month taper

 

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Slept till 9am this morning with hardly a symptom. Feel there should be a trumpet fanfare going on outside my bedroom window

Paxil 10mg 21/2 years to June 2012 after a 2 month taper

 

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