☼ Cymbaltawithdrawal5600: Introduction

October 11, 2013

Thinking of you, C! I don't think it's surprising that you don't feel consistently well after a year. Please keep writing!

October 12, 2013

Meimei, thanks so much for your words of comfort.... I am so glad you are still posting! Yeah, it is not surprising but I wonder where is MY roadmap for this? (as if there is a roadmap for anyone......) Many here are in the struggle getting off the drugs. Here I am off and feeling mostly well in spite of these blips. Having my psychological symptoms change to something completely different is something I am not prepared for. Doesn't even feel like something I can call a 'wave', I just kinda woke up a few days ago and here it is. And except for my worry that it was progressing I would not have taken the pill. I don't know how far to let things go before I use the pills and I am afraid of 'destabilizing' I guess you would call it. After that near disaster earlier in the summer I just don't want to push things too far.

I have had a rough 2 days with ANXIETY! of all things, something I never remember having much of. I have always had depressive thoughts, that stuff that goes round and round in the head, spiraling ever downwards in content. Except now it is anxious stuff, anxiety-causing stuff. Usual things like death, incapacitation both mine and others. Oh and there's worry to go along with it too, about the future. Sometimes it is only that feeling of a tight stomach with no thoughts..... that's worse because I don't know how to approach it. Today I was doing some computer work at my volunteer job and happened to notice it had gotten really bad, worrisome enough that I took a hydroxyzine. That finally calmed it, hours later. Didn't need the pill yesterday and this evening I feel ok (this is the hours later). It is like I don't really know myself inside any more. Even all those years on the meds my psyche was mostly predictable (though I felt blunted or sedated I notice in retrospect).

October 12, 2013

I have told my husband many times, when he says Can't you take a pill to fix this...We are on a journey without a path.

I sometimes have similar, but less intense, feelings. Sometimes getting involved in something else helps, laying on the floor and doing belly breaths, or, especially, doing something outside in bright sunlight. But I think you already do those things. Good luck!

October 12, 2013

But I think you already do those things.

Ah, Meimei, thanks for giving me more credit than I deserve.... I actually came to the realization AFTER my anxiety got out of hand that I had been neglecting basic self care like getting a little exercise every day and getting outside for a bit each day (walking to the car and back is not enough 'outside' and neither is staring out my beautiful windows). Too much thinking, not enough doing. And I really had not had enough to eat by the time I got home late in the evening, though I did stop for a convenience store snack of oriental mix (it was yuk) before I went to see a friend. I rode in her car while she delivered food, something I used to do with her a lot. I really had hoped to talk about my 'problems' and feel better but it did not quite work out the way it usually does.... instead of starting out with 'me' I instead asked about her and her recent trip to see relatives up north. She told me about her husband's drinking and depressive thoughts and I could see how very far I have come from the person I used to be, she was really describing me as I used to be. I did mention myself near the end of our time together but it was more of an afterthought.

I have been having the weirdest things happen in my thought processes while talking to people lately, I am not sure if I can describe it accurately or if anyone can relate. I think it might have something to do with an interesting effect of mindfulness meditation that I read about recently. (I am going to paraphrase what I remember, you can look up the appropriate studies yourself.) Meditation does something with the amygdala (a brain structure) that causes it to be less 'inflamed' or get less reactive to stressful events. And I think it is not just formal sitting meditation that does this - it is also helpful that I have those moments where I periodically remind myself to be aware of the 'present moment'. Like feeling the bottoms of my feet, really LOOKING at a cloud, my cat, etc. when I am not stressed. There are even timers you can download for your phone reminding you to do this as well as websites that will send you text messages throughout the day doing the same thing. (Should do, could do, haven't done yet.)

So what has gradually changed in my experiences with people is that I have been able to listen to them talk about their stuff without getting all reactive to it, wanting to jump in and talk about myself or try to 'fix' their problem and wanting to interrupt them a lot generally. (Not quite as dramatic as the experience I described earlier this year with the same friend's husband, but maybe not as dramatic because it is happening more?) When they are describing what is irritating to them or bothering them and they use angry sounding voices and expressions I am not reacting with upset inside me like I have always done. At some point I DO find myself wishing they would stop and I want to change the subject but some little thought comes up (and it's generally specific to the person and the ways I have used them to talk about my problems) like: "She listened to you cry when you were upset, you can let her talk now about what is bothering her". So I let them continue their narrative without interruption but I make appropriate comments or ask pertinent questions. GF wanted to vent about her husband. So and so wanted to talk about this. Even my mom's voice is not upsetting to me anymore (well, not as much) and I have been finding out some interesting stuff buried in the history of my family, even my mom knows stuff about me that I didn't even know (that's another post.)

I feel a weird 'space' in my head. The anxiety was apparent only as a tightening of my stomach muscles, not that clenching in the pit of my stomach though that did occasionally come and go. I don't feel a heaviness in my chest or head which is a sign that my 'ruminative' (repetitive to no good use) DEPRESSION thoughts are occurring, That can get so bad that my head actually hurts. This is all new to me. And it fits in with my wish to show I am growing up 'psychologically' which I see as desirable before I can consider myself truly recovered from antidepressant therapy and depression itself. The anxiety may be something that is bound to happen with any changes such as this so I'll have to cope as best I can (which does not always mean access to meds). That's why I am not ready to tell a 'recovery' story. Winter is (historically) a time when depression has 'hit' me, whether it can be attributed to 'seasonal affective disorder' or not. I am attempting to get my ducks lined up for the coming season. Friend support: check. Light therapy device: check. Peer support on SA: check. Meditation: check. Yep, they're lining up nicely.......

October 12, 2013

Taking psych drugs for years changes the way our brains work and react to things.

Coming off them cold turkey throws the brain into chaos that takes a long time to settle.

Then you have to learn to deal with all the emotions that have been chemically altered

all that time. I know I don't need to tell you that, but I think you are doing really well. You've had

a lot to cope with that would affect most people and you've had to cope with while in

withdrawal. I take my hat off to you, you are an inspiration and I love reading your posts.

October 12, 2013

mammaP, you are a godsend! I am so lucky to have you following my thread...

Taking psych drugs for years changes the way our brains work and react to things.

Coming off them cold turkey throws the brain into chaos that takes a long time to settle.

Then you have to learn to deal with all the emotions that have been chemically altered
all that time. I know I don't need to tell you that

well, duh, I am sure glad you did! How many blasted times have I read this same thing OVER AND OVER again in various threads and it never sank in, that this very well could be why I am having a hard time trying to make sense of my emotional landscape. I never applied it to myself, because I had such a (relatively) easy time after the medication was stopped. I was on VERY high doses of Cymbalta for a really long time, not to mention the lamotrigine (I plan on seeing the pdoc one last time this year so I'll ask her how much lam I was on and for how long, if she'll be able to tell. One time I noticed my chart on her desk and IRRC it was about 6-8 inches thick!) For the most part I have felt 'well' all along except for brief (again relatively in hindsight) periods of upset, so I never thought the 'chemically altered' emotions applied to me. Now it makes some sense. I definitely don't feel depressed right now, at least not what I would call 'my' depression, but the anxiety is so very strange. It seems not to have any relation to what event or situation is occurring, it is just there and I can't really articulate a reason (although I could 'think' of a lot of reasons). It happened again today.

I was with a friend at a dog event, held outdoors in a touristy kind of place. We were walking through the aisles, I was holding her dog's leash so she could look at some of the booths. I felt it in my stomach, it passed away while we were sitting down for a coke. Then we went inside to see the souvenir shops. I headed for the year-round Christmas room and after being in there only a short time I had to get out. I used to LOVE that place but now I kept getting fragments of memories that should have been happy but were upsetting instead. We met back up and went into a room with exhibits of taxidermied wild animals and I got more and more anxious and said I had to get out. She was glad because she was finding the whole thing to be a bit 'close'. Her feeling was normal for her, my anxiety was not normal for me because there was no external reason for it. I always had great times shopping there.

On the way to the car I started talking about something I learned from my mother this morning, that she always knew I would never stay with my original career choice (nurse) and I probably wouldn't stay married to my (only) husband. What??????? She knew all that but never said a word, just let me be (and this was the woman I thought didn't love me.) My dad wanted me to be a nurse and I thought I did too but maybe I wanted it because I knew it would please him. He wouldn't let me enter the 3 year school I had already paid the entry fee for, I was going to be roommates with my high school best friend. Instead I had to go to college and he was paying for it. No discussion. I did feel betrayed but what could I do, better to please my dad so I convinced myself that it was the best thing to do and I was certainly smart enough for college. My friend and I drifted apart. She stayed a nurse, I tried as many different types of nursing that I could and never made it very long in any of them. I finally gave up when I realized that I would not be able to stay sober if I had to work as a nurse. I knew years later the reason really was: I was not temperamentally suited for it, that's what my mom knew about me. I think I was in my 40's before I made that realization.

October 12, 2013

You might want to take a look at this topic:

Neuro-emotions

Many of us have experienced these inexplicable feelings of anxiety and depression during recovery from antidepressants. I'm off of Lexapro nearly two years (Dec 14, 2011) and still get those false feelings on occasion. When I was only a year from my last crumb of Lexapro, the neuro-emotions were frequent visitors.

My sympathy on your ill-conceived career as a nurse. I often wonder how different my life would be if I'd stuck to being an artist instead of becoming first a psychotherapist and then a CPA, the latter of which my father was extremely proud. I could still enjoy being a therapist, but I'd have to be awfully hungry to go back to being an auditor.

October 13, 2013

You might want to take a look at this topic:

Neuro-emotions

Thanks, Jemima.... that second bonk with the clue stick hurts a bit......

I saw neuro in the beginning with the unpredictable anger and fits of rage, the unexplained (and unpredictable) crying, but it did not trigger an association with this odd feeling of anxiety. Though it did (today) trigger a recollection that it is just like the odd feelings that brought me to this board earlier this year. The unexplainable unease not related to situation - yep, it feels just like that other time. Like I wailed in a previous post - where is my roadmap for this? I am more comfortable now just chalking this up to 'recovery' (albeit in a more fine-grained or refined form) running over the same lines as it did before. Hey! I kind of like that one! Like with each pass, the ground is being tilled and plowed deeper and the dirt is getting broken down into finer chunks and the furrows are getting more smoothed out. Now if I can just remember it. I shall still search for any meaningful causes for anxiety when it arises and keep my scrip for the hydroxyzine filled just in case. Some of the stuff I have been doing (such as going to the doc for a physical and signing up for a pap and my first ever mammo) ARE causing anxiety, as in fear of the unknown (what if they find something?) It's a part of me being a grown up and doing things like this, which grown-ups do, right?

I had to stop writing earlier because I remembered another part of what happened when talking to my friend today. I always found nursing hard and eminently unrewarding, I think I lacked compassion and was always too focused on the technical aspects because of my immaturity and rigid upbringing. When I gave it up I tried jobs that I always wanted to do: auto repair, plant care, delivery driver, but in the back of my mind I always feared that I was LAZY. There is a lot of responsibility to being a nurse and I never felt up to it. My relationships with people were fraught with conflict and unhappiness and I just could not take it so I quit. How I ever managed to do it for so long I have no clue. (and I would have to be starving to ever contemplate trying it again, though the one thing I was always good at was hitting veins, was an ace in the blood bank).

I told my friend this and she was very understanding. The real breakdown happened while we sat in the car, ready to leave. I told her how frightened I was about losing control of my emotions and needing to go on meds again, that I was fighting so hard to do nothing that might stress myself to the breaking point. That's why I haven't placed ads to get new clients and have accepted just those ones who call me, my regulars. I am just plain scared. Funny thing. She said she KNEW this about me (how do people see me clearer than I see myself???) She told me about a story she recently heard on NPR about a boat captain who had his ship captured by pirates. He ended up suffering from PTSD and she reminded me that the stuff I went through, being on the drugs and coming off so rapidly, was like the same kind of shock. I have to take it slow and let myself heal and accept that this is part of it. Here I've been secretly despising myself for not pushing for more work, I certainly feel physically able. But not mentally, not yet.

Please Lord, let me be a person who deserves such good and understanding friends...... I feel like I have been ill my whole life and I don't want to be anymore, I want to be well and contribute something better to the world. (sniff) Some tears of self pity there but also maybe a little optimism? Like maybe this will get better?

October 13, 2013

Well, it did not get better today, in fact the uneasiness started early and prompted a hydroxyzine. Have felt low mood all day and essentially wasted a good day inside when I could have been outside (even though it is still pretty hot.) Had a few uncomfortable words with mom that I regretted (I did not say anything bad, just kept explaining the same thing over and over which she hates.) Like some little gremlin inside me just won't let things go. I really dislike myself when I am like that. Things were going pretty good there for awhile.

Feel teary and dejected. I tried reading some articles on the benefits of mindfulness in prep for the class tonight to try to work up some enthusiasm for it but all of the words were meaningless and flat. I have such high hopes that this will help and here I am, not more than a few days in and already I'm hitting a wall. At the same time I have a secret wish that something will come out of it eventually. And now that I know a possible reason for my perplexing anxiety (withdrawal effects) I know that it will pass in time no matter what I do. I am a little nervous about staying away from home for a few nights for pet sitting, but I know it will be fine. It always is once I get there. I like the house I will be staying in.

I got some news that has me more than a little unsettled, about the craft show. I had counted on my friend being there but she has to be out of town. So that means it will be just me and I don't have anything ready yet. And can't seem to get started. That same old 'not good enough' dialogue has started up in my head. It is completely ok for me not to show up, I already talked to the show organizer about it maybe not happening for us. If I haven't got any items ready by the end of next week I'll tell her not to save our space. Funny how I thought I had it all worked out a few months ago but now that the actual situation is here it turns out it is not. There will be other opportunities this season and if it is going to provoke too much anxiety I will put it off indefinitely. It was more for her benefit anyway and we both knew that.

There, I feel a little better (I think?)

October 14, 2013

I'm glad you're feeling better after writing.

Choosing not to participate in the craft show this year might be a good decision, especially if you're really not up to it. Creativity can't be forced, so there's no sense in putting unnecessary pressure on yourself. Like you wrote, there will be other opportunities.

I hope your class was enjoyable.

October 14, 2013

Thanks for commenting, Petu!

The class was quite interesting for me and I am glad I went. I got there and started feeling weepy as I was walking in. Teacher saw me come out to blow my nose and dab my eyes because I could feel the crying coming on. She had me come sit with her outside and I told her that I had been feeling the inexplicable anxiety and the rest of my 'blah blah story' of the week and my fears about needing meds again and she said something, I can't remember exactly what and it evaporated and I was in the room and starting the class. Even after all the reading I have done, I have had not many preconceived notions of what these classes are typically like and how they are supposed to teach 'meditation'. So both have been a surprise. I won't try to detail it but after she gives a talk, she guides us in meditation.

So during the meditation the A/C came on and I seemed to be right under the cold blast of air. I had forgotten to wrap my jacket around me so while I was minding my breathing I was exploring the sensation of the cold air. I had the same experience in the Dr.'s office last week where I was sitting in the exam room, waiting, and it was cold. Instead of shivering and getting upset at not bringing a jacket, I decided to just experience the sensation of the cold air blowing on me but kept an ear open for sounds that the doc was coming in. I was actually quite relaxed both times though at one point last night I felt my body shake a bit, didn't know if my body was 'cold' because I didn't feel cold.

She asks for us to comment on our experiences afterwards and I told about my experience of the cold air because I couldn't remember what my breathing felt like. Mentioned what I did at the doc's and she said 'you were meditating' then just like you were doing tonight! I remembered her saying (during the meditation) to keep the breathing in the foreground of my attention and any other sensations (including thoughts) in the background. Neither time, while I was exploring 'cold' did I have my usual mental commentary about how I hate cold air going on (they're wasting money, I'm always cold, what's wrong with me, blah de blah) because I was so intent on the sensation. And that's the thing: thoughts will ALWAYS come into the mind but being in the immediate present in the body by noting sensations changes things.

I'll wind things up here by talking about the craft stuff and the 'anxiety', they are tied together. And they also tie into her comment that too much reading without corresponding 'practice' leads to 'conceptualization', meaning you can't think your way into learning this stuff. You use whatever you have going on in the moment for your practice (but still do formal periods of 'sitting'). She had grilled me outside about did I still do the daily meditation even when I was feeling the anxiety and I told her I did but I cut to once a day for 2 days because I was scared. That's ok, don't stop and don't do too much. She said to 'drill down' into the 'anxiety' when it happens, like where do you feel it, what does it feel like, when it is occurring. I can notice my breath and the sensation at the same time, I don't have to stop everything and 'sit'. Or try to ignore the feelings and wait for my scheduled sit. Explore the feelings as I notice them come on. I am sure I read this but it did not occur to me because I had been holding it as a 'concept' until someone gave me a concrete example tying it to my own experience. Oh, duh.

So even though I have given myself an 'out' for this particular craft show, I can use it to examine the feelings that occur with the 'thoughts' as they come up (while I work on some items to take), such as: is there a feeling somewhere in my body when I have the thought 'my stuff isn't good enough'? And the same thing with the anxiety: if I find my thoughts spiraling into anxiety, is there a feeling associated it and explore the physical sensation of the feeling.

Besides, there are no real 'rules' for what I take to a craft show, are there? Really, think about it. If all I have is one item, displayed on a nice piece of cloth, where is the rule that says I can't do it that way? I actually have 5 crystal bracelets I made last year that were part of a group for a friend to pick from that she didn't choose. The venue provides the tables. I have a nice piece of red cloth already. I am actually good to go right now. If I sell all my bracelets in the first hour well, I can spend the rest of my time talking to and admiring everyone else's stuff. That's really the reason I like craft shows, I love to see what people create. Selling my stuff is not the main event.

I highly recommend real live classes in meditation. It takes a little less than an hour for me to get to this class once a week. It is totally worth it. Because I already know I am too 'smart' for this stuff........

October 16, 2013

The class was quite interesting for me and I am glad I went. I got there and started feeling weepy as I was walking in. Teacher saw me come out to blow my nose and dab my eyes because I could feel the crying coming on. She had me come sit with her outside and I told her that I had been feeling the inexplicable anxiety and...

Your teacher sounds nice, supportive. That must have been comforting to have her notice you were struggling and to help like that.

What kind of meditation is it?

October 17, 2013

Mindfulness meditation. Sit, focus on breath. In, out. I go back and forth between feeling it pass through my nostrils to feeling my chest/belly rise and fall. Keep body still. That part gets really hard sometimes in relation to saliva building up in my mouth. I want to swallow but don't, for the most part. It is very interesting when I am able to resist the urge for the whole sit. After some sessions (I am up to 35 min 2 X a day), I feel great, Last night, felt not so great. Heart irregularly thumping the whole time. At one point the urge to pound my chest to get it to stop came up and shocked me. I would not be surprised to find out that feeling my heart doing this every day (and at times for nearly the whole day) contributes to my anxiety. This morning I was reflecting on what a timid old woman I have become, not like I used to be at all. Mind filled with grandiose ideas I never got around to finishing (if I even started them). Now most of my mental time is spent on worry about the future, remembering scenes from my past, hardly ever in the present moment. The antidote for anxiety is focusing on the present moment, disengaging from the endless thoughts and experiencing the inputs to my senses. Seems so simple yet so difficult in practice. I can (mostly) do it for the periods I sit, but maintaining it the rest of the time? Nope, I am off in my habitual thought patterns and soon the anxiety appears. I am unaware of life in the moment, asleep and dreaming, having nightmares most of the time. ******* (<----- insert your favorite expletive here). I am tired of that kind of life. Without the numbing effects of the drugs, I am more aware if it now than I ever was.

October 17, 2013

Being on the computer seems to be increasing my anxiety (I get that fluttery feeling in my solar plexus area). I thought I would try some laughter therapy this morning and headed to yout00b for some cat videos. I found very few that evoked laughter and the more I watched, the more uneasy I grew. I guess this is something I might be experiencing for awhile and will probably go away like it did before so the easiest thing to do to relieve me from worrying about it is to chalk it up to 'neuro emotion' and not dwell on it. I had it again yesterday while I was doing a new client dog groom. A 5 month old puppy, first haircut. Mom was hovering near which I did not mind. I finished in a reasonable amount of time, the pup was very well behaved and I had to finish the cut with more scissor work than I would have liked. My hand muscles are out of practice. But at the end, when doggie was prancing on the floor, I saw how completely cute she turned out and the family was more than pleased.

So I can be out with a friend and get anxious. I can complete a groom even if anxiety comes on in the middle of it. Last night, after experiencing it off and on throughout the day, I had a few moments before bed (and after the not so good meditation) where I felt peaceful. Amongst the experiences of yesterday I had 2 outbursts of anger, one when talking to my mom and it wasn't even about her (I was mad because the paper shredder keeps taking the TV stream down) and the other came on while I was cleaning one of the litter boxes. Both cats are so messy with their toilette but mom's cat is the worse of the 2. Drinks a lot, pees a lot, in all one place and it is like trying to scoop wet cement. My anger flew up and out of nowhere.

I had a visit with my pdoc yesterday. I was in and out of there so fast my head spun. Not the visit with her, the place itself. I got there early and she saw me and took me right in instead of waiting for her next appt who she said was usually late. I was able to confirm the drug dosages I came off so precipitously a year ago - cymbalta 120mg (high dose), lamotrigine 100 mg (low dose), clonazepam (low dose). She renewed my script for the Vistaril. I now have a huge bottle that will probably last 2 years. I made another appt for 6 months, it will come a few days before I turn 64. (Oh that brought on a few tears....)

I told her about my meditation class and my 'anxiety not related to circumstances'. I am worried and concerned that I do not know what to 'do' with my future. She commented that it seems as thought I do not know how to relax and said that I can 'do' anything I want. Ah, I seem to have surrounded myself with friends, a parent, a psych, a meditation teacher, all people who are not making it very easy for me to hang on to my 'stories'. The stories, though tiresome, are a habit carefully nurtured over many years. I'm caught right at the point where I see the habit and am struggling to break it. Periods of success followed by worry-creep followed by more work and a few moments of success, rinse and repeat.

She says she sees improvement in me, that I am so much less negative than I have been in the past. I'll have to take her word for it. Other posters have commented that people who haven't seen them for a long time remark on how much they have changed. Perhaps that's the way it is for me too.

I'm taking my anxiety with me to a girl's meeting. Had a brief thought of cancelling the day and spending it in bed. Nope, no need to. These girls are my friends and they have certainly seen me when I was REALLY having a bad time. I went to activities in the midst of bad times and this is just another one of those days. I think it is weird that I can note my feelings and call them 'anxious' yet I don't appear anxious to others.

October 17, 2013

CW, you don't sound like a timid, old woman, you sound like an interesting lady that would be loads of fun to be around.

My stinking, thinking can cause anxiety like that, too. One thought I try to remember, we're still healing. Even since I started feeling much 'closer to normal', I still have little waves from time to time. We have to hold onto some hope, it will get better.

Hugs and healing...

October 18, 2013

Awww, Tezza,

Your words are so kind! How is it that I am not a good judge of myself? I see myself as a selfish, self absorbed bundle of insecurities and doubts, prone to depression and spiritual fantasy and OLD to boot! You should see how timidly I have been navigating my emotional minefield, so freaking freaked out that as winter and my year anniversary approaches depression will swoop down and carry me away for good before I have had a chance to experience life with a clear head and some small amount of emotional growth. Gah! Sometimes I feel like a heart patient, I move so slowly.Took me a whole week to turn in a volunteer application for being someone who can take people to the Dr. or grocery because I was afraid I'd have a day feeling weepy and someone would need a ride. Today at my meeting I was weepy again but only because my friend wanted to talk about something that happened and I told her I didn't want to. But it came out anyway and a few tears did too. this stupid weeping better be healing because I am getting tired of it happening with my friends. At least I did not weep on the dog yesterday.... can't cut wet fur, it rusts the clipper blades and those aren't cheap!

I just read your sig and that is a whopping lot of meds you've come down from, Tezza. I feel like such a big baby sometimes and other times I feel so lucky that I am not drooling on myself in some mental ward after crashing down off that high dose of cymbalta. That drug is extremely sedating (in addition to it's other miraculous and wondrous psychoactive properties ) and I am not sure I am fully away from it almost a year later. Even the INSIDE of my body was numb and how I know that is because I could actually FEEL my insides again as the drug left my system. Maybe that is why I can feel my heart beating all the time. Like a sensory backlash of sorts. And why I am so entranced by physical sensations during meditation. The arising and passing of an itch is sublime. However, the day an ant happened upon my arm was so freaky that he got reflexively smooshed before he tickled 3 hairs and I am still apologizing for his death.

Thanks for the reminder about still healing. I forget that recovery is not just physical OR emotional, it's both and they aren't always in sync, at least for me.

October 19, 2013

I wonder if I can do this, get through my days unaided by chemicals. I know the rest of you can but I do not have the same faith in myself. I do not have a felt sense of any higher power, have not had that for a long time though I find myself reflexively thinking a 'thank you God' when a catastrophe is averted. But no sense that there is a force in or around me that wishes me well. I feel lost and alone and separate and not normal, damaged a long time ago with no hope of repair. I am pinning so much hope on meditation helping me and how will I know if it does? What will I do if it doesn't?

I awoke twice last night, I am still generating a lot of heat in my sleep. I started to feel anxious about just 'being' with myself, without some distraction like the computer. Worry starts up in my mind and I don't want to be with those endless thoughts. At all. I drifted back to sleep rather quickly. The second time the full moon was shining through the windows right into my eyes. Finally turned away from it and fell back asleep.

When I awoke again, at a more proper time, of course the thoughts were there again. I hear my mind pleading for someone to help me, to comfort me, to tell me that things will be all right. That I am doing the right thing. Endless questions, no answers. Thinking about the past or wondering about the future, not able to stay in the present for more than a few seconds at a time.

This morning, while sitting at the computer, I started thinking about my 'distractions', or rather the lack of my customary, lifelong ones. Some have included alcohol and a few drugs a long time ago. Smoking, which has changed to the ecig, I definitely reach for that one a lot. I would count the psych drugs as a distraction too and now they are gone. I don't date and I don't have a regular job. Haven't had the TV on for over a month and don't listen to the radio. Don't do any media surfing on my computer. I notice, here and there when I read self-help blogs, that many people are doing 'media fasts' and getting great benefit from them. Mine was done out of necessity, they (advertising and commentary) increased my anxiety. Don't use food, in fact forget to eat a lot of the time.

The computer is the major distraction. Playing solitaire or endlessly searching for 'help'. Well, not endlessly, I just do it. Thinking about what is missing from my life led me to thinking about crafting. I don't want to do it because I am afraid of the thoughts swirling around in my head. Afraid of the feelings evoked, memories, unfulfilled dreams and fantasies. Ground I have covered so many times already with no success. I am avoiding it.

Gosh, I sure am debbie downer this morning. Time to change the channel.

This morning I started thinking about how uncomfortable I get from sitting. Sitting upright in this wicker chair, with my legs hanging down, has caused my ankles to swell up a bit. My back doesn't have the sharp pain in it anymore, that's a good sign. But I started to notice how tense my shoulders get when I am off in anxious thoughts and how I tend to breathe very shallowly. Boy, they creep up constantly! Two things I understand that might really benefit me are exercise and getting outside more. And I have to stop wearing a bra. This one is hard only because of the ni**le showing thing. But every single time I put one on (and I have tried a jillion styles and sizes) my solar plexus area hurts and my heart starts acting up and the anxiety is magnified. Pressure on the ribs is all I can think of and I have even tried extenders which have made my bra so loose around my chest that it might as well not be there and it still causes discomfort. I think the years of wearing underwires, the constant slouching and being overweight on the ADs did something to my chest and lower ribs. I wear t shirts all the time and bra-less is noticeable. I have a friend who doesn't wear one but she always has a lightweight loosely buttoned shirt over her tee. It is bound to get cooler soon and I'm going to start looking for some lightweight shirts to cover up with.

Well, that perked me up a bit, thinking about shirt shopping and ditching the bra. I'll keep you posted......

October 19, 2013

I came across this picture tonight, it made me laugh and think of you.

You and I surfing the waves together! :wub:

October 20, 2013

o gawd, mammaP! You have no idea how much I needed that laugh! I remember the surfer chick comment from a ways back

This anxiety is terrible and so unreasonable - I have nothing to be anxious about! Finances are fine, health is fine (except for the heart thumping and I think it is something I have to live with for awhile), relationship with mom is lots better (she will turn 89 tomorrow!), relationships with others are fine and I can think of no one I have any upset with. The house does not look well, of course, still unfinished painting but it is mostly straightened up. It is still too hot and I am not going to paint till I can open all of the windows. I've decided against the craft show for now and I don't think I have any great upset over it.

I feel the knot in my stomach, notice the tension in my shoulders and hear upsetting thoughts and then the tears come. I have to miss my meditation class tomorrow and I am definitely upset about that but it cannot be helped as I need to help a friend who is in a jam over dog sitting. I am bummed over that....

mammaP, that was a delightful story about your grandson, you are an amazing lady and I fervently hope the rest of your taper is bearable for you. I always look for your posts.

October 20, 2013

Hahaha!! a little humor; the BEST medicine.

Congratulations.

October 21, 2013

My anxiety/worry/weeping loop broke apart in the weirdest way yesterday morning. I was trawling the web for something to give me hope that meditation would be able to work for me. I spent the whole week in a state of worry that I knew was unreasonable but I could not shake. I spiraled down into 'worrying about my worrying' and became very fearful it would trigger depression if I could not put a stop to it somehow. I found this and knew that is what I was doing and it shed some light onto why it happens:

Finding peace in a frantic world
If you are reading this article, the chances are you've repeatedly asked yourself why the peace and happiness you yearn for so often slip through your fingers. Why is so much of life defined by frantic busyness, anxiety, stress and exhaustion? These are questions that puzzled us for many years too, and we think that science has finally found the answers. And, ironically, the principles underlying these answers were known to the ancient world: they are eternal truths.

Our moods naturally wax and wane. It's the way we're meant to be. But certain patterns of thinking can turn a short-term dip in vitality or emotional wellbeing into longer periods of anxiety, stress, unhappiness and exhaustion. A brief moment of sadness, anger or anxiety can end up tipping you into a ‘bad mood' that colours a whole day or far, far longer. Recent scientific discoveries have shown how these normal emotional fluxes can lead to long-term unhappiness, acute anxiety and even depression. But more importantly, these discoveries have also revealed the path to becoming a happier and more ‘centred' person, by showing that:

• when you start to feel a little sad, anxious, or irritable it's not the mood that does the damage but how you react to it
• the effort of trying to free yourself from a bad mood or bout of unhappiness - of working out why you're unhappy and what you can do about it - often makes things worse. It's like being trapped in quicksand - the more you struggle to be free, the deeper you sink.

As soon as you understand how the mind works, it becomes obvious why we all suffer from bouts of unhappiness, stress and irritability from time to time.

When you begin to feel a little unhappy, it's natural to try and think your way out of the problem of being unhappy. You try to establish what is making you unhappy and then find a solution. In the process, you can easily dredge up past regrets and conjure up future worries. This further lowers your mood. It doesn't take long before you start to feel bad for failing to discover a way of cheering yourself up. The ‘inner critic', which lives inside us all, begins to whisper that it's your fault, that you should try harder, whatever the cost. You soon start to feel separated from the deepest and wisest parts of yourself. You get lost in a seemingly endless cycle of recrimination and self-judgment; finding yourself at fault for not meeting your ideals, for not being the person you wish you could be.

We get drawn into this emotional quicksand because our state of mind is intimately connected with memory. The mind is constantly trawling through memories to find those that echo our current emotional state. For example, if you feel threatened, the mind instantly digs up memories of when you felt endangered in the past, so that you can spot similarities and find a way of escaping. It happens in an instant, before you're even aware of it. It's a basic survival skill honed by millions of years of evolution. It's incredibly powerful and almost impossible to stop.

The same is true with unhappiness, anxiety and stress. It is normal to feel a little unhappy from time to time, but sometimes a few sad thoughts can end up triggering a cascade of unhappy memories, negative emotions and harsh judgments. Before long, hours or even days can be coloured by negative self-critical thoughts such as, What's wrong with me? My life is a mess. What will happen when they discover how useless I really am?

Such self-attacking thoughts are incredibly powerful, and once they gather momentum they are almost impossible to stop. One thought or feeling triggers the next, and then the next . . . Soon, the original thought - no matter how fleeting - has gathered up a raft of similar sadnesses, anxieties and fears and you've become enmeshed in your own sorrow. In a sense, there is nothing surprising about this. Context has a huge effect on our memory.

Thoughts are a part of being human and having a 'mind'. Meditation does not get rid of thoughts, this is not possible. It somehow helps you 'unhook' the suffering from the thoughts.I understand this on an intellectual level, but why could I not make it work? Why wasn't it working? What was I doing wrong? Do you notice more worry in this thought loop? I did.

So then I happened to read a posting here about a gratitude project. While reading it I noticed my shoulders were all hunched up. I kept relaxing them but every time I took my thoughts away, they crept back up. I decided to try to find something to be grateful for and I started saying it in my mind. This link was the catalyst behind the deliberate recitation.

I felt something 'shift' and the worry-stream stopped. The most amazing thing was not that it stopped (that was totally cool!) but that I was aware when it happened. I am unable to adequately explain in words what was a 'felt' experience. All week long I lived with the worry and tears and was convinced that meditation was not going to work because I was 'doing' it wrong. Nope. It was my first experience that just continuing with the practice works. The real thing that the relaxing of the shoulders and the gratitude thinking did was to bring me into a 'present moment' awareness 'off the cushion'. It had to happen that way, I had to experience that week long buildup of suffering for me to be able to see it, feel it happen. That experience now lives inside me and will be there when this happens again. Make no mistake, it will happen, again and again and again. The joys of being a human.

The class this week was about 'doubt', how apropos. Antidote for it is 'keep practicing'. There is no way for me to see if this will work for me for depression and anxiety unless I keep it up, no matter all the glowing results of the stories I may read. Each one has to find out for themselves.

October 21, 2013

I've been reading on Tara Brach's blog a bit today and came across another tidbit related to the above:

In the book My Stroke of Insight, brain scientist Jill Bolte Taylor explains that the natural life span of an emotion—the average time it takes for it to move through the nervous system and body—is only a minute and a half, a mere ninety seconds. After that, we need thoughts to keep the emotion rolling. So, if we wonder why we lock into painful emotional states like anxiety, depression, or rage, we need look no further than our own endless stream of inner dialogue.

Ninety seconds???? And then thought and rumination and worry take over (if you are like me) and it's like a spooked riderless horse careening down the hill till the wheels come off and splat, a whimpering mess.

I have run across this idea of the firing neurons all over the place, it seems:

Modern neuroscience has discovered a fundamental truth: Neurons that fire together, wire together. When we rehearse a looping set of thoughts and emotions, we create deeply grooved patterns of emotional reactivity. This means that the more you think and rethink about certain experiences, the stronger the memory and the more easily activated the related feelings become.

It was at the gratitude site too, I think. Or somewhere.

Pardon me while I fire up my gratitude neurons. If I look in the mirror will I see my head glowing?

October 22, 2013

Wow that all makes perfect sense, thanks for sharing it CW!

October 22, 2013

Yeah, mammaP, I love reading stuff like this. Trouble is, reading is one thing, incorporating it into experience is another. In order for it to happen there has to be some uncomfortable emotion or thought stream present, or at least the recognition of what is happening.

There is a huge ball of pain in me, and fear and guilt and greed and anger and disappointment. I cannot seem to tap into joy and peace and love no matter how hard I try. I think it is the same for many of us. We became overwhelmed with the pain and needed (really needed!) medications to give us a leg up out of our deep holes. It is too bad that conventional medical wisdom had it that after a certain point we needed to stay on them for life to assure our safety. I refuse to entertain the upset that vilifies the medical establishment and pharmacological industry for one single reason: what in the world would you expect a compassionate doctor to do when faced with a human in pain and meds have been shown to be of benefit, at least in the beginning? Going down the road to all the rest (withdrawal syndrome, greed, iatrogenic illness) is beside the point for me now and will not speed my healing. At this point of my life off meds, no iatrogenic illness has announced itself but that doesn't mean that it won't. Anger at 'them' won't help me if it does.

It's the years of walled off pain I have to deal with. I have a heart and love and compassion somewhere inside me (so I am told) but I cannot feel it because I start crying and get a lump in my throat like I am trying to swallow shards of glass. Those are all I can feel. The worry thoughts are a distraction from feeling pain and I pretty much know that.

This sucks.

October 22, 2013

ad dow this thucks more by dose ith all thuffed up from crying....

In class last week, Teacher mentioned this from tara brach and that's why I was reading her blog entries yesterday: R A I N.

She tells many stories of helping people open up to the pain inside themselves (and her own stories) on her blog and how they were able to do that. She particularly kept mentioning touching your heart area and giving yourself love first. I have never been able to do this without experiencing a great deal of pain and tears and then I am distracted by my sorrow. Even sitting here trying to think of a time when I felt happy fails, I think of a crisp fall day up north, for example, and I get lost in pain instead of joy and give up.

I fell into kind of a reverie this morning, sitting quietly and just breathing while all sorts of scenes appeared in my mind. They were from various times in my life when I was unkind, selfish, and greedy both in thought and in deed. At a certain point a startling thought appeared: "There's no help for this". There is no way for me to make amends to those people, I'll never see them again because they were in places I no longer live or they are dead. Even in times when I tried to be helpful, those times were tainted with self-serving selfishness. My only hope is that Christian teachings that say I am forgiven (and I have to forgive myself) and I can attempt to live the rest of my life refraining from those harmful thoughts and deeds.

I started to think about why I don't eat right, why I have no real appetite. I don't like myself, you see. Why care for something you don't like? I have always had a funny relationship with food, like it is something I have to do but don't really like or want to do. The act of eating is an intimate relationship with my body and I am avoiding contact with the very thing that houses my awful feelings of unworthiness.

I thought about a picture, one of my baby pictures. My mom and dad holding me and looking at me lovingly (hope these tears won't rust my keyboard....) I rooted around in the closet and finally found them and another flood of tears came. I am so glad I did not throw them out, I was going to a few months ago. Thank goodness my work got cancelled today, I am a stuffed up hot mess right now. But I have to make myself look at those pictures and see the joy in that little girl's face and see if it is still somewhere inside me. I'd rather be doing something else because I don't want to feel this pain. But I have to find something inside me that is good otherwise I am lost. No hope for this.

October 23, 2013

After writing the above note I got a call from a friend whose computer fritzed up (the dreaded 'please insert system disk or press F2 to enter setup'). Comp is not even a year old, I set it up for her before last Christmas. After bringing it home and beating it with a stick (my usual punishment for bad computers), then running the win7 repair tool, had it up and running in short order (it had a corrupted partition table). I am in the process of fine-toothed combing it for clues but none are coming up as to why it happened. I told her it was probably cosmic radiation What else could I say besides cr@p happens.

Ended up with a nasty cry headache by the end of the day and haven't had the motivation to look at the pictures. I know I will cry again. With a really uneventful lower middle class baby boomer upbringing I do not know why the emotion of love seems so wired to pain inside me. I am sure one day it will become clear or gently fall away to be replaced by something resembling more normal emotion and not so much blasted weeping.

So I am doing the grown-up thing and getting my female checkups. Pappy today, mammy on Friday. *First* mammy, never had one. This doc is big on preventive medicine. I wonder if I am the only woman who has ever sat in the exam room and had the horrible thought 'this could be the end of my life as I know it'. I had him check my heart again, the palpitations have been so severely HARD at times I can feel my chair moving. Big thumps I can feel clear to my gut. Nope, normal rhythm while he listened (of course) so he suggested propanolol. He knows I take the hydroxy occasionally and said it of course also helps with anxiety. Though the palps appear benign at this point and not a cause for worry, he said I should not FEEL my heart beating that hard. I also described something he called a 'thrill', a series of fast thumps. So, OK. I am of the opinion that if I ask the doc and he has a suggested answer, if it involves meds, then a try at them is worth a shot (I draw the line at psych meds at the present time). Starting at a very low dose (10 mg BID) I'll see what happens. I told him I'd just start with one a day and increase if I need it. I did my due diligence and read up on it and I see where it should not be stopped abruptly. And he does not think it is something I need to be on for the rest of my life.

I took one this afternoon and have only felt an occasional muffled thump. I convinced myself the other day that I was resigned to going bra-less for the rest of my life because putting the darn thing on, even so loose (with extenders!) that the mammas were barely in their pens, caused my heart to start it's wild thumping. I have no idea if it contributed to my runaway anxiety last week but it sure didn't help.

I read up on Inderal a bit. Invented (or found) by a Scottish physician born in the 1920's and revolutionized the care of patients with angina. I think he was nominated for a Nobel because of it. It is used in other conditions (not just the heart) but taking it has caused me to have a feeling of really being 'old'. This last year has caused me to feel my mortality creeping up on me. No kids, no husband, dad and sister gone, mom a year older (just turned 89). Heart medicine. Oh the drama of a depressive, melancholic mind.

Bought some cheapo omega 3 today, no vit D added. And some veggies for a salad. Haven't had one since my blowout earlier in the summer. I can feel a bit of my will to live coming back. "When I'm 64" (Beatles tune) just popped into my head. I am already thinking I'm 64 and that's not for 5 more months. Sheesh.

October 24, 2013

yippee yippee yippee! The weather finally broke last evening! Started in the early evening, got really windy and overnight it reached the mid to low 60's with humidity in the mid 50 range. Thank you lord, lived through another endless hot summer in Florida!

And I made it through my first sleep under the influence of Inderal. It can apparently cause vivid dreams. I slept so well with the windows wide open all snug in my blanket. All is well with the world......

October 24, 2013

Sounds like you had a lovely night.

Be careful with the inderal (propranolol), its known to sometimes cause depression, especially in people with a history of it. Its sometimes prescribed to prevent migraines, my sister took it for several years in her teens. I've taken it occasionally and have always had some on hand for years, but can't take it any more, not even 5mg.

I found it did work well for those physical anxiety symptoms without effecting cognitive function. My daughter takes it for exam anxiety and my GP told me he wouldn't have been able to get through medical school without it.

October 24, 2013

Be careful with the inderal (propranolol), its known to sometimes cause depression, especially in people with a history of it.

My thoughts fastened onto that sentence and my spiral into a depressed helpless mood this morning culminated in a bounty of tears. I give up. I read about that in only a very few of the sources listing the side effects of the drug. I decided to take a chance on it being a temporary fix (and I got to wear a bra today without feeling like my heart was going to jump out of my chest. It's not like I can't give up bras altogether, the perky problem is hard to solve but not impossible if I don't mind sweating from an extra layer of clothing).

No matter what I do I am screwed, I have no agency in this. I either sit here and take the inderal and wait for the black cloud of depression to descend upon me and end my life off meds or be constantly alarmed at the forceful irregularity of my heart and let my worry over that (which I had barely been keeping at bay) to fan the fires of obsessive thinking and then ride those down into the pit of depression. Learning mindfulness to tame an unruly mind (which loves to ruminate only on the bad stuff, it seems), trying to eat better and any other healthy activity I might do won't be enough to counteract the depressive properties of this drug....

What causes depression?????????

And how, exactly, does a beta adrenergic blocker actually cause depression? So a chemical that promotes smooth muscle relaxation (and can ultimately lead to a feeling of calm, too), settles things down and then wham - depression strikes?

Found this on PubMed (among other interesting citations) regarding this facet of propanolol use:

CONCLUSIONS:
beta-Blockers may have been unjustly associated with depression and their use avoided for that reason. Future studies into the association between depression and beta-blocker use should evaluate whether the association is affected by case definition and study design characteristics, including disease, dose-response, bias, measurement error, or ability to precisely measure the length of the exposure.

Not to mention the criteria used to actually measure depression being a factor in this possibly unjust association. (Didn't read all the citations, a lot of the citation summaries looked to be in doubt that there really is a causal relationship).

Petu, thanks for being the catalyst for me doing some research on this. I needed help with disabling depression and I dutifully took the drugs as prescribed. I was never fully aware of their dreadful side effects (leading to iatrogenic illness), not to mention their inability to actually cure depression. The heart issue I am having may be the first sign of my iatrogenic damage from the use and precipitous discontinuation of psych drugs. I don't know what else to do except take the inderal right now. Wish me luck.

October 24, 2013

Here's a better article informing on how the correlation to depression may have started:

http://www.currentpsychiatry.com/fileadmin/cp_archive/pdf/0905/0905CP_MedinBrief.pdf

Mechanistically, peripheral effects of

beta blockers on the heart and kidneys

lead to decreased chronotropy and inotro

-

py as well as lower blood pressure. These

cardiovascular and hemodynamic changes

could cause fatigue, decreased energy, and

sexual dysfunction that may be interpreted

as symptoms of new-onset depression.

ah, sorry bout the formatting, it's a pdf of a journal article.

Whatever the case, I feel completely dreadful right now and it's not just because I had the weepies again. I am going to cut the dose down to half a tab tomorrow and if that doesn't work, I'll do a quarter. My head feels funny and my stomach feels vaguely queasy. But my heart is quiet

October 25, 2013

Definitely only going to take a quarter tab of inderal tomorrow, I was unbelievably down today, had a weird kind of headache and my limbs kinda felt like cement. And actually realize this evening that I feel depressed. It's worn off a bit from the way it was earlier but I had to cancel a job today because of druggy feeling. Good thing I never posted a recovery story. I am definitely 'not there yet'. Oh well. I guess I officially now have a 'sensitive system'.

October 25, 2013

I'm so sorry this is happening, can't help thinking that it might be somehow my fault. I was hesitant to mention the depression connection because I didn't want to 'worry' you, it might not even happen. But I wanted you to know in case you did get depressed again and it was being caused by something you were taking.

I had actually asked on here a while ago about taking inderal to help control my morning cortisol surges, because it does help somewhat with that, but Alto advised me against it. Turns out to be true that anything I take to reduce one symptom ends up making me feel even worse in one way or another later. For me the paradoxical effect of inderal is completely physical, my body seems to slow down (even more than it already is), making me feel sluggish and heavy. Any psychological depression comes from my 'frustration' at still not being able to live the way I want, in spite of having a decrease in a symptom because of an increase in another symptom.

Are you sure this sudden return of depression is a direct result of the medication and not because of what you just learned about it? Does it help to realize that the 'depression' connection is not real depression, but just a physical response which has been interpreted as psychological depression? I actually learned that from reading your quotes and it makes perfect sense given my own experiences.

Maybe you can find a dose which controls your heart palps, to a degree you can live with, but which doesn't slow you down enough to stop you functioning.

Here's another coincidence, I also can't handle wearing a bra, haven't been a fan of them for years, find them restrictive and uncomfortable and I also worry about the perky issue, but these days I have more to worry about so I don't really care. But I know you can buy adhesive patches designed for just that problem, I have seen them in a lingerie store. Some women use bandaids

October 25, 2013

Oh Petu,

I sure wanted to make the way I was feeling yesterday anyone else's 'fault' but my own! I woke up this morning, this is kind of my usual time, and I feel panicky. I thought maybe if I logged on and posted something I might feel better, get the demons out of my head so to speak, but I find I cannot. I am shivvering cold. Gonna get another blanket and see if I can warm up and try again later to start the day.....

October 26, 2013

Hi CW,

How are you today? Did you manage to warm up?

October 26, 2013

Yes, I did finally manage to warm up. The temp went somewhere below 70 that night but I don't know how low and for the life of me I cannot remember at what temp the heat should come on, or what I set it to come on last winter. I feel like I am missing some of my marbles, not thinking too clearly last couple of days. I have not taken any more inderal and my palpitations are gradually coming back. Today especially because I had a sister group party to go to and I wore a bra for it. I did look at the adhesive coverups at the store (they are in the sewing section of the craft store here) but I decided against messing with them and bandaids too. I'll just look for some blouses to wear over my t's.

I got a call from my artist friend and she was at a gallery near my town where some artists had tables set up behind the gallery and they were doing their art. I started talking to a lady doing wire work and told her I dabbled in beading. Oh, her stuff was beautiful!!!! She really tried to encourage me to work on my stuff and I felt a little flutter of excitement which fizzled after I got home. I'm tired and down.

It may very well be that I am a bit depressed. But I really do not have to worry about it like I did 8 years ago because I don't have to punch a clock and try to keep my life from unraveling hence the need for AD therapy. I am not doing well with my meditation either. That drug made me feel so weird that I could not sit with myself and actually felt panic when feeling my breath, very unstable.

I am feeling very humble about recovering so quickly from the precipitous CT from the drugs. I am still recovering but I am not out of the woods yet I don't think.

Feel, feel. feel. I am not overjoyed with how I am feeling and not as optimistic about meditation practice having such wonderful benefits for me.

October 27, 2013

I am still reading a lot about meditation and I was meandering through the topics in a link Petu (thanks sweetie!) posted. I came across one person's experience about her initial difficulties. She wrote this:

I had really been struggling with a creative aspect on a project at work, and a brilliant solution unfolded as effortlessly as breathing.

Oh wow, wish this would happen for me. Sigh. It was enough encouragement though for me to dutifully do my 30 minute sit, I had skipped my morning one. At some point during it I could feel my heartbeat very strongly and it was distracting. I reached up and put my hand there and pushed hard and left it there for some moments. Afterwards, as I was back to sitting in front of my computer, playing solitaire probably, I was thinking of the events of the day and the ladies at the art show. I could still feel it and was thinking about taking a quarter tab of the inderal but still reluctant to do so.

It all started coming together about the heart thumping feeling. The place where I am really feeling it is directly below my xyphoid, that little bone at the end of the sternum. And it hurts a bit to press there. So I had a new search query which lead me to results describing AAA (abdominal aortic aneurysm). Not that I have one necessarily, I could or maybe not. But the thumping I feel is the blood going through my abdominal aorta. I have been trying to sit up straight (I changed my chair to one I can't slouch in), my insides aren't numb from the drugs anymore, and I've lost about 30 pounds mostly around my trunk. I don't start feeling it till some time after I have been up in the mornings. Wearing even a loose bra accentuates it. If my heartbeat is irregular (everyone's is now and then) the thumps will feel weird.

You change something (in this case my posture) and it has effects you never dreamed of.

☼ Cymbaltawithdrawal5600: Introduction

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