bobcat with celexa problems

[bobcat]

Hello, I'm a new member here. I've been on celexa 10mg for six years. The depression hit me when for the first time I was separated from my twin brother and had gone off to grad school on my own (a move and separation, both huge stressors). When I first went on medication, they gave me 20mg. But it was too much. I reduced to 10mg and felt great. A couple of years ago, I decided I wanted to get off the stuff and tapered down, though admittedly not very slowly but by quarters and way too fast. Everything seemed to be going more or less okay. I realized that every time I reduced, I'd have a bad day where I thought, "I can't continue; I have to go back on." But the next day, i'd find it had passed. The final straw, however, was a cataclysmic anxiety attack resulting from the realization that, "ahem," things were rather soft "down there." Not out of commission altogether, but...not optimal either. I concluded that I'd better get back on the stuff to get back to normal (relatively speaking). I also made the naive assumption that the anxiety was not from withdrawal but the symptom of a recalcitrant depression for which, I then concluded, I would simply have to take celexa indefinately. The reason I'm again thinking about tapering off is fact that I don't seem to get nighttime erections  a whole lot anymore. I don't know if SSRIs can mitigate that at all. I'm generally fine "at bat," but just experiencing a whole lot at night and rarely in the morning.

 

My questions are two: is the "going soft" of things "down there" a typical occurrence during withdrawl? Does it generally pass? 

My second question: Are The Road Back's JNK capsules and Neuro Endure Mini supplements safe? Do you recommend them?

 

Sorry about the rambling on. I've never really set this all out for anyone. It's just stewed inside. And sorry for the euphemisms, I guess I'm still a bit English that way.

[mammaP]

Hi Bobcat, welcome to SA.  Did you reinstate the celexa? If you did, how long were

you off it before reinstating?  Post SSRI sexual dysfunction can be a problem for

some in withdrawal and it usually gets better over time. We have a private topic for

sexual problems if you would like to take a look, you will be able to read others'

experiences. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/30-private-pssd-discussion/

 

The only supplements that are universally recommended here are magnesium and a

good quality fish oil, The road back tends to recommend very expensive supplements that 

are frankly a waste of money . Many people become very sensitive to supplements during

withdrawal and they can cause further problems. 

There are some excellent topics on supplements in symptoms and self care. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/

 

Topic for tapering celexa

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram

 

It would be helpful for us if you can post your drugs history in your signature strip, a brief list

of what drug, when started/stopped and doses. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/?view=getnewpost

Edited March 30, 2014 by Altostrata
fixed link

[Altostrata]

Welcome, bobcat.

 

Err....that private discussion area is not active.

 

Here's a topic about post-SSRI sexual dysfunction (PSSD). http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/52-post-ssri-sexual-dysfunction-pssd/

 

This is very distressing but most recover from it along with recovering from the rest of withdrawal syndrome. It takes time and a lot of patience.

[bobcat]

Thanks guys. I was barely off my medication when I reinstated. Actually, it's hard to remember now. It was either my first day being off it altogether, or my first day of being on an extremely low dose (approx 1/4mg) that I was hit by crippling anxiety and panic and reinstated. I think my issue was that, although I went down by quarters, I did it too fast.

 

I was thinking about giving tapering-off it another go (going by 10% decreases at two week intervals), and that's why I was asking the question about whether it's normal for guys to have a brief time of sexual dysfunction during the withdrawal time. If I knew it was, I think I could be braver about it. 

 

Also, I was wondering, even if sexual dysfunction occurs during withdrawal, does the normal nighttime erections cycle usually return pretty quickly? If it did for most guys, that would be a relief since that cycle is supposedly responsible for keeping everything healthy down there. I'm especially concerned about this since my twin brother (who was on SSRIs much longer than I and at much higher doses: over ten years at 20-30mg paxil) had a horrible time going off his medication (though he went cold turkey, unfortunately) and a sort of fibrosis set in "down there," which he's told me has made everything useless. I'm so afraid of that possibility that it costs me a lot even to write it. 

 

One positive thing I'd like to report: my brother has been off everything for quite some time now. And although he's suffered the catastrophe I outlined above, he's actually doing quite well. He is, after his many trials, a success story. We're both 32 years old.

[bobcat]

Also, please tell me if I'm doing something wrong on this site. I've never used anything like it before and want to make sure I'm not posting in the wrong places or ignoring established etiquette.

[mammaP]

I apologise for posting a link to an inactive topic Bobcat, I've never actually been there

myself and wasn't aware it was not accessible, I am sorry  .

Please try not to compare yourself with your brother, everyone is different, even twins,

and what happened to him may not happen to you.  Your brother came off cold turkey

which must have been awful for him but it's good to read that he is doing well now and 

I hope his PSSD  resolves soon for him. You are tapering so hopefully things will get 

better along the way.

 

You are doing fine Bobcat and can post questions anywhere but if it is specifically about

your taper then you would post here in your own thread. It is one thread per person in 

introductions so that everything is kept together and your progress is easy to follow.

[Nikki]

Hi Bobcat...I got off Celexa in November.

 

I have a hard head and should have done it alot slower and in smaller increments. 

 

If you have reinstated and are feeling better ~ that is certainly a plus

 

If you were on 10mgs. and have reinstated back to that or close to that number and are feeling well, stay there and just heal a bit.

 

For myself although there is a 10% reduction suggestion I am currently do a 1mg. reduction which I started last night.  Celexa comes in liquid which is good.

 

Sometimes we have to go back to the square one, settle down and stabilize and then throw out the calendar  to begin another taper.

 

Basically all meds have the potential for sexual side effects.  WD can also cause sexual side effects.  If you log onto crazymeds dot com there is information there....Click on Celexa and read about the side effects.

 

Nice to meet you

[bobcat]

That's alright about the link, Gold star. Thanks for your comments. They were really encouraging. Hey Platinum Star, thanks for your comments too. Actually, It's been two years since I last tried to go off. I'm feeling very steady, have felt so for years (with a few, rather normal bumps), so I think I'm in a good position to try again now with a 10% taper (which I've never tried before and am hopeful about). 

 

I'm officially starting my taper today one way or another! I'm going to go try to pick up the liquid stuff, but failing that will use some of the info on this site to make my own. 

 

As an aside, I've been taking supplements in preparation for the taper: magnesium and fish oil. Interestingly, the fish oil (at least I think that's the culprit) has made me really hyper and feels a bit like when one's first getting on the meds and adjusting...strange. I think I might stop and just keep it in my back pocket to use in case things head south a little.

[Altostrata]

Do you have any questions about the topic for tapering celexa

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/

[bobcat]

I think I've got most of it handled. I read your post on it, and it was very thorough. Thank you. The only question that comes to mind regards how to know how fast to go. I read on your post that if you are handling the taper well (i.e. having very minor withdrawal symptoms), you can shorten the month intervals to three week intervals. I was wondering what an example of minor withdrawal symptoms might be, though I understand this might be a hard one to answer since everyone is different. I really took to heart the part about doing everything not to fall of the cliff, since once you have, there's no getting back: it's just a hard slog through. And I want to be as careful as possible while not staying on the medicine any longer than necessary. I have an additional reason to be very careful: my wife and I are expecting our first child, a daughter, in May. Don't want to fall off the cliff right when I'm needed most. 

[bobcat]

Oh, also, the diuretic i'm on,  hydrochlorothiazide, I'm wondering if I should get off that while I taper. I'm relatively young (32), and my blood pressure's really not all that bad. Have you heard anything about taking diuretics during the tapering process? I can't find a whole lot. But I know diuretics wash out a lot of vitamins and minerals, and I'm going to need all I have. Also, I'm not sure, but I think the slightly high blood pressure was a result of the ssri use anyway, and this leads me to think that I should go off the diuretic while I taper in order to let my body readjust.

 

I guess one last thing: I power lift and do kettle bells pretty intensely at least once a week. I know that too much exercise can be bad during withdrawal, but since I've been doing this sort of workout for 17yrs, I figure I should keep with it but just slightly reduce the intensity. Do you have any thoughts on that in particular?

[Altostrata]

Minor withdrawal symptoms are tolerable and go away within a few days. Examples of non-minor withdrawal symptoms: brain zaps, insomnia, headache.

 

You're on a diuretic for high blood pressure? Sounds excessive. See http://www.drugs.com/pro/hydrochlorothiazide.html

 

If I were you, I'd taper off the diuretic at 25% every few days while stable on the Celexa. Do not change two drugs at once.

 

It could be Celexa has caused your blood pressure to go up.

[bobcat]

Thanks. Will do!

[bobcat]

Well, I came across this article:  http://www.madinamerica.com/2013/08/ssri-discontinuation-is-even-more-problematic-than-acknowledged/

 

 Probably shouldn't have read it. It's pretty disconcerting. sheesh

[Altostrata]

Please use search and see the discussion we've had about that article.

 

Dr. Shipko misspoke. He clarified in the comments on that article.

[bobcat]

Thanks Alto. I found it and had a look.

[Rhiannon]

Hi Bobcat--

 

I've read over your history, and here are my thoughts. First, given the history you describe, which is pretty straightforward, I think you'll do fine with a reasonable taper. 

 

Second, when you ask about how fast to taper: That's something you're going to have to learn from your own body. I always recommend starting slower rather than faster, and then speeding up as tolerated. In your case I would underline that, since you're going to have a baby soon and that's going to mean a lot of stress and disruption (happy stress and disruption, but it still affects the CNS). I actually generally suggest that people start with a smaller cut, less than 10%, then wait four to six weeks, and journal every day ranking the withdrawal symptoms on a scale of 1 to 5.  Observe what withdrawal symptoms you get, how they come on, how they unfold, and how they resolve. Do that for a couple of cycles, gather information about your own body and how it tolerates withdrawal. 

 

If you find that your symptoms are minimal and resolve quickly, then you can up the size of the cut or make your next cut sooner, and continue with that approach to tolerance.

 

Unfortunately what people usually do is the opposite of this: cut as much as they think they can, and cut again as soon as they think they can. The problem with that is, if they get in trouble, it can take quite a while to settle back down, and with a baby coming, you may not want to risk that.

 

And my third thought is: given that you and your twin brother (are you identical twins?) both have had sexual effects from withdrawal, that's something you'll want to keep an eye on, I would think. That is, when you're ranking your symptoms and keeping track of them, be sure to include that symptom. Observe how it comes on and how it resolves, what the pattern is for it developing and gradually resolving. 

 

Your body is the only real expert on withdrawal, so be patient, listen to it, allow it to teach you. Once you get a sense of how things go for you, you'll be able to control your own withdrawal.

 

Good luck to you--it sounds to me like you're in an excellent position to master this and do great.

 

Oh, and have fun in Portland, you lucky duck! I live out in the Gorge. It's beautiful but BOHring...

[bobcat]

Rhi, thanks a lot for your post and the advice. It was really encouraging. Actually, it really does a lot just to have someone tell you they think you can do it.

 

Haha, I'll do my best to take advantage of Portland. 

[bobcat]

Hey Rhi, did you say elsewhere that you mix your own antidepressant taper solutions? If so, could you tell me how you do it?

[Petunia]

Hi Bobcat,

here is the link for instructions for making a liquid from tablets or caps:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/

[bobcat]

Thanks Petu

[bobcat]

Well, I’m on my second day at my slightly lowered dose. All is well. I do feel a bit hyper, but I can’t attribute that to the reduction, because I was feeling that way before I started. I think it must have been the fish oil, which I’ve discontinued for now. I did read the posts on fish oil ( I think it was on this site), which said that the EPA form is the culprit for the hyper feeling, and the stuff I take does have a higher concentration of EPA. There’s been no anxiety with it though. I’m still taking magnesium, but I’ve done that in the past and tolerated it well.

 

Also, since I’ve done strength training for 17yrs, I’m going to continue with it throughout this process. I’m looking at it as an experiment of sorts. I want to see how it may help the process (though I’m going to be careful not to overdo it).

[Rhiannon]

You might just want to keep the exercise on the mellow side during times when you're feeling a bit more symptomatic. I think you can safely experiment with that.

 

I think you're going to do fine. Just don't get impatient and go too fast. It's not worth the price. 

[bobcat]

Will do Rhi, thanks. That's a really good point. You don't want to give in to the temptation to go faster. As Altostrata said, you don't want to fall off the cliff! I'll try to keep the exercise pretty gentle.

 

Also, I wanted to share some advice my brother gave me from when he went off antidepressants. He told me to stick to familiar routines (so long as they're healthy, of course) and familiar places: routes you usually walk, places you feel secure. And he said that if you're out in an unfamiliar place and it starts to overwhelm you, you should simply leave, even if it's a social event and hard to explain. He said it could even happen from being in an unfamiliar store. The upshot was that it's best to pay attention to your anxiety and now when to go back to base to recharge. 

[Petunia]

Also, I wanted to share some advice my brother gave me from when he went off antidepressants. He told me to stick to familiar routines (so long as they're healthy, of course) and familiar places: routes you usually walk, places you feel secure. And he said that if you're out in an unfamiliar place and it starts to overwhelm you, you should simply leave, even if it's a social event and hard to explain. He said it could even happen from being in an unfamiliar store. The upshot was that it's best to pay attention to your anxiety and now when to go back to base to recharge. 

,

This is really good advice, when in withdrawal our NS seems to do better with routine and familiarity, unlike a healthy nervous system which seems to need a certain amount of stimulation from variety and  novelty.  I've noticed this about myself. Is your brother completely recovered now?

[bobcat]

My brother took paxel in the 20-30mg range for over ten years. Finally, he decided he wanted off. After several tries with variable results, he committed full tilt. He had a very bad year and a half (perhaps even two years) but gradually started to improve. Today, he is every bit the brother I remember. He jokes around, pursues his interests and hobbies, enjoys music. He’ll be the first to tell you there are still ups and downs; things can still bother him. But he says the difference is that, whereas before if this happened, he would become anxious (“terrified” was the word he used) that he was “relapsing” into incapacitation; now, if this happens, there is no such fear (perhaps that fear itself can at least in part be a neuro-emotion); instead, he now considers these ups and downs to be the normal vicissitudes of human experience and has developed healthy ways of dealing with them (cognative-behavioral ways).

 

His coming through as he has is one of the things that made me reconsider my position. Since I had a scare coming off the stuff a while back, I simply thought I must need it for life. But after my brother’s recovery, I began to question this belief.  

 

In any case, sorry for rambling Petu.  I’m at work, so gotta go. But I hope you guys are having an all right day.

[bobcat]

Hello,

Well, my GP okayed my liquid celexa prescription. I used it for the first time today, and I’m glad to report no immediate side effects from the switch over from the pills. My only concern is over the solution’s being 10mg/5ml. I have precise enough oral syringes that it doesn’t matter right now. However, I can see things getting more difficult as I continue to taper. Does anyone know whether you can dilute liquid celexa with water? Down the road, could I, say, draw 5ml of the medicine, mix it with 5ml of water, and then draw out of that 1mg–1ml ration for my dose? I’m just not sure whether the medicine is soluble in water or whether it would merely be an emulsion (so that you would have to be careful not to let it settle).

 

-bobcat

[Altostrata]

Answers to your questions about liquid Celexa http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/

 

You can also get a smaller oral syringe.

[bobcat]

Thanks Alto. I reread the post you gave above and saw some things that I had either missed or forgotten, but which answered my questions. I think I'll just see if I can get a smaller oral syringe.

[bobcat]

It’s been a little more than a week at my first lowered dose (9mg), and I’ve had no withdrawal effects so far that I’ve noticed. The only thing that might be a withdrawal effect is the sudden onset of intense guilt and distress over things I did as a teenager, things I regret now. Has anyone else experienced this? Not sure if it’s attributable to withdrawal or not. It's just come back out of the blue.

[mammaP]

Yes Bobcat, that can be a side effect, past traumas or   'sins' come

back and bite you on the butt.  It isn't something to worry about, forgive yourself and let it go.

Hopefully this will not last and you will soon settle again. It's good that there aren't any other

withdrawal symptoms.  Allow yourself a few weeks to stabilise properly before another cut. 

[bobcat]

Thanks mommaP. I'm definitely going to go another three  weeks at this dose before taking another step down.

[bobcat]

Well, I’ve had my first taste of W/D anxiety, I think. I’ve been having some urinary tract symptoms, things consistent with a uri or something. I don’t know. In any case, I went on line to try and diagnose it and BAM, got hit by anxiety way out of proportion with the cause. I’ve talked myself down a bit, distracted myself, used a few tricks. Things are better now.

 

But I am wondering if anybody knows whether SSRIs or W/D from them is associated with urinary symptoms. I’ve made an appointment with my doctor, but I’m a little apprehensive since usually they just proscribe you an antibiotic like cipro, which I’ve read can have some scary side effects.  Is there any other way to treat this sort of thing that anyone is aware of? Can you request a safer antibiotic?

 

Hope you’re all doing well,

 

-Bobcat

[bobcat]

Anyone heard of D-mannos? It has gotten positive reviews as a supplement for combating urinary tract infections, and according to WEB MD, it's pretty benign.

[Altostrata]

Haven't heard of D-mannos, but we have a couple of discussions of urinary problems in men in the Symptoms and Self-care forum.

[Kali123]

bobcat - just read through your thread - wondering how things are going for you these days?