Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)

[Altostrata]

I don't agree with the PTSD theory of prolonged withdrawal syndrome. Some doctors are using this to absolve the drugs, again.

 

It depends on what you mean by PTSD. It's a fuzzy concept. Some researchers think it is an emotional reaction to stress, a panic or anxiety syndrome. Some believe a traumatic emotional shock may remodel the brain in a dysfunctional way, a more physiological model.

 

However, it is clear in withdrawal syndrome that the shock is chemical, not emotional, although many of the symptoms are the same. (Anxiety about symptoms can exacerbate them, that is true in both conditions.)

 

Symptom-wise, there is overlap between the hyperalerting caused by iatrogenic damage and the hyperalerting in PTSD, sometimes attributed to intense fear.

 

In PTSD, the fear response generates, perhaps, neurological remodeling, which generates the biochemical fear response. They both become self-reinforcing cycles.

 

In withdrawal syndrome, the iatrogenic damage generates the biochemical fear response independent of your emotions.

 

This is exactly why people who have diagnosed themselves with withdrawal syndrome (everyone on this site) reject doctor's diagnoses of anxiety disorder or other psychiatric conditions.

 

Commonly, they say, "But it's not me, there's something physical about it."

 

I do believe that studying withdrawal syndrome can illuminate some issues in PTSD, as well as how these drugs work and don't work.

[alexjuice]

I don't agree with the PTSD theory of prolonged withdrawal syndrome, a neuropsychiatrist's opinion as reported by Gianna Kali http://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/neuropsychdoc/ .

 

However, it is clear in withdrawal syndrome that the shock is chemical, not emotional, although many of the symptoms are the same. (Anxiety about symptoms can exacerbate them, that is true in both conditions.)

 

Symptom-wise, there is overlap between the hyperalerting caused by iatrogenic damage and the hyperalerting in PTSD, sometimes attributed to intense fear.

 

In PTSD, the fear response generates, perhaps, neurological remodeling, which generates the biochemical fear response. They both become self-reinforcing cycles.

 

For me my biggest symptom is something like MEGA-FEARSTRESS. I literally try to monitor my thinking at all times because I can create an amped-up response just by my thinking. However, my FEARSTRESS most commonly manifests around ideas of conflict with others. Verbal disagreements, even those that are wrapped in subtext, provoke an ridiculously disporportionate response. I sometimes feel for my physical safety, when there is no real threat. And after a stressful event, I ruminate about it some despite my best intentions. I also foresee possible future conflicts, say with a psychiatrist, and catch myself rehearsing my responses to a hypothetical conversation. I instinctually go there, where I anticipate what I can say that will allow the lowest chance of a conflict situation.

 

I can feel myself being damaged when I am in the grips of these profound moments of stress. It is primal and sometimes, if I actually get into a verbal disagrement, I lose my calm. I get flooded and start to shake, eyes go blurry, heart racing. And then the memory of the stress will not leave me.

 

I have tried to explain this to those around me but they confuse it for anxiety. I am a lifelong sufferer of severe anxiety and this is a different chemically-based psysiological experience.

 

My guess, in agreement with surviving, is that this stress perpetuates itself and retards healing.

 

I don't know if it is PTSD in the way that Doctors diagnose it.

 

What I do care about is treatment models for PTSD that can dampen this fight/flight that is hurting me.

 

I know there are some CBT models for treatment specifically tailored to PTSD patients. Has anyone tried those techniques?

 

This thing, FEARSTRESS, eats me. I have recently developed abdominal/GI/GERD problems and succumbed to Doctor's advice and started a PPI a couple of days ago. The PPI is a whole other story. But I don't have the tools to even try to manage my stress levels and I have backed myself into dark lonely room to avoid the stimuli and it's still not working.

 

There is an anxiety clinic at the local university (Texas) well regarded for their treatment. I once met the director, an "interesting", "confident", and "well-credentialed" Dr named Telch. I think his recent work has been in the area of CBT for PTSD. At least, last I heard. He is always, to my understanding, running research. For $90 a session I could be a data point for him. Anyway, the point is...

 

Even if it is true that PTSD and w/d syndrome are distinct, couldn't a treatment that alleviates PTSD hypervigilance symptoms potentially reduce similar symptoms caused by w/d?

 

Or me grasping straws. Challenging week. Better week next time.

 

Alex.I

 

ps - for certain typos and other errors above. unintended, i assure.

[stan]

hi Alex,

a little off topic maybe

About your "megastress", what i think ((i can be wrong)

you are taking benzo actually, before you took many nerves meds, this is the state

when we are on meds we are drugged, we do not fight against daily little common stress as a person without drug does(it is not from me , it is from benzo org uk)

we do not have the habilities to fight little daily stress, so we are overhelmed with a little thing (hyper fear or hyper angry)

during this state CBT is ineffective, harming with too little results

after weaning, and after chemical withdrawal settle down and you have homeostasis (hormones balanced) than you are in a poor state of vulnerability,

you have to learn again all you have not done while on meds, and there CBT works i think

i am maybe (after two years off) in this state : megafear but more natural , and outdoor i arrive to lessen it a little with thinking

CBT is exposure outdoor, i go out since tapering every day, but only actually i see mild little results progress some days,

[alexjuice]

Yes, this is a good point. I do not know how benzos affect CBT. I have heard that CBT will not work in conjunction with benzos.

 

Eventually, though, I will be free of benzos.

 

I am looking forward to that day.

 

alex.i

[Rhiannon]

I'm on the tail end of a 12 hour overnight shift at work and my brain is mush, so I can't say all the intelligent things I want to say about PTSD, except that I don't think protracted w/d is PTSD at all.

 

I know PTSD much too intimately, and it's not like the descriptions of protracted w/d,

 

if that's what somebody is claiming. And I can go into that further if anyone wants.

 

For one thing, if nothing else, PTSD is a natural function of the brain in response to life-threatening trauma, actually a defense mechanism; whereas what these drugs do to our CNS and bodies is completely unnatural, never before encountered during evolution.

 

BUT

 

I suspect the trauma of w/d can cause PTSD on top of everything else.

[Rhiannon]

"Even if it is true that PTSD and w/d syndrome are distinct, couldn't a treatment that alleviates PTSD hypervigilance symptoms potentially reduce similar symptoms caused by w/d?"

 

Interesting question. I don't know. For me, the techniques of self-calming that work to alleviate the PTSD, involve becoming centered in the moment, noticing my triggers...it's probably kind of like what the CBT guy uses.

 

But like Stan points out, if the hypervigilance is caused by screwed up chemicals, can that work?

 

I will have to think about this when I have a functioning brain.

[Altostrata]

From time to time, people wonder if they have PTSD. There seems to be an overlap between symptoms of PTSD and antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, such as sleeplessness, hyper-alerting, irritability, and depression.

 

For the sake of discussion, here's a current description of PTSD from the Mayo Clinic (emphasis mine):

 

Original Article: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/DS00246

 

April 8, 2011

 

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)

By Mayo Clinic staff

 

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a mental health condition that's triggered by a terrifying event. Symptoms may include flashbacks, nightmares and severe anxiety, as well as uncontrollable thoughts about the event.

 

Many people who go through traumatic events have difficulty adjusting and coping for a while. But with time and taking care of yourself, such traumatic reactions usually get better. In some cases, though, the symptoms can get worse or last for months or even years. Sometimes they may completely shake up your life. In a case such as this, you may have post-traumatic stress disorder.

 

Getting treatment as soon as possible after post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms develop may prevent long-term post-traumatic stress disorder.

 

Symptoms

Post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms typically start within three months of a traumatic event. In a small number of cases, though, PTSD symptoms may not appear until years after the event.

 

Post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms are generally grouped into three types: intrusive memories, avoidance and numbing, and increased anxiety or emotional arousal (hyperarousal).

 

Symptoms of intrusive memories may include:

 

* Flashbacks, or reliving the traumatic event for minutes or even days at a time

* Upsetting dreams about the traumatic event

 

Symptoms of avoidance and emotional numbing may include:

 

* Trying to avoid thinking or talking about the traumatic event

* Feeling emotionally numb

* Avoiding activities you once enjoyed

* Hopelessness about the future

* Memory problems

* Trouble concentrating

* Difficulty maintaining close relationships

 

Symptoms of anxiety and increased emotional arousal may include:

 

* Irritability or anger

* Overwhelming guilt or shame

* Self-destructive behavior, such as drinking too much

* Trouble sleeping

* Being easily startled or frightened

* Hearing or seeing things that aren't there

 

Post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms can come and go. You may have more post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms when things are stressful in general, or when you run into reminders of what you went through. You may hear a car backfire and relive combat experiences, for instance. Or you may see a report on the news about a rape and feel overcome by memories of your own assault.

 

....

Causes

You can develop post-traumatic stress disorder when you go through, see or learn about an event that causes intense fear, helplessness or horror.

 

Doctors aren't sure why some people get post-traumatic stress disorder. As with most mental health problems, PTSD is probably caused by a complex mix of:

 

* Your inherited mental health risks, such as an increased risk of anxiety and depression

* Your life experiences, including the amount and severity of trauma you've gone through since early childhood

* The inherited aspects of your personality — often called your temperament

* The way your brain regulates the chemicals and hormones your body releases in response to stress

 

Risk factors

People of all ages can have post-traumatic stress disorder. However, some factors may make you more likely to develop PTSD after a traumatic event, including:

 

* Being female

* Experiencing intense or long-lasting trauma

* Having experienced other trauma earlier in life

* Having other mental health problems, such as anxiety or depression

* Lacking a good support system of family and friends

* Having first-degree relatives with mental health problems, including PTSD

* Having first-degree relatives with depression

* Having been abused or neglected as a child

 

Women may be at increased risk of PTSD because they are more likely to experience the kinds of trauma that can trigger the condition.

 

Kinds of traumatic events

Post-traumatic stress disorder is especially common among those who have served in combat. It's sometimes called "shell shock," "battle fatigue" or "combat stress."

 

The most common events leading to the development of PTSD include:

 

* Combat exposure

* Rape

* Childhood neglect and physical abuse

* Sexual molestation

* Physical attack

* Being threatened with a weapon

 

But many other traumatic events also can lead to post-traumatic stress disorder, including fire, natural disaster, mugging, robbery, assault, civil conflict, car accident, plane crash, torture, kidnapping, life-threatening medical diagnosis, terrorist attack and other extreme or life-threatening events.

 

....

What you can do in the meantime

There are steps you can take to improve your ability to cope while you're waiting for your appointment with a doctor. What works best for you is likely to be highly personal. Talking with friends or family about your feelings or trauma you've experienced may be helpful. However, don't push yourself to share more than you can actually tolerate.

 

You may find it especially helpful to talk with others who have gone through a traumatic experience similar to yours. Your doctor or mental health professional may be able to recommend a support group in your area. Exercise and relaxation techniques such as yoga or meditation also may improve your symptoms.

 

Tests and diagnosis

Post-traumatic stress disorder is diagnosed based on signs and symptoms and a thorough psychological evaluation. Your doctor or mental health professional will ask you to describe the signs and symptoms you're experiencing — what they are, when they occur, how intense they are and how long they last. Your doctor also might ask you to describe the event that led up to your symptoms. You may also have a physical exam to check for any other medical problems.

 

To be diagnosed with PTSD, you must meet criteria spelled out in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), published by the American Psychiatric Association. This manual is used by mental health professionals to diagnose mental conditions and by insurance companies to determine reimbursement for treatment.

 

Criteria for post-traumatic stress disorder to be diagnosed include:

 

* You experienced or witnessed an event that involved death or serious injury, or the threat of death or serious injury

* Your response to the event involved intense fear, horror or a sense of helplessness

* You relive experiences of the event, such as having distressing images and memories, upsetting dreams, flashbacks or even physical reactions

* You try to avoid situations or things that remind you of the traumatic event or feel a sense of emotional numbness

* You feel as if you're constantly on guard or alert for signs of danger, which may make it difficult to sleep or concentrate

* Your symptoms last longer than one month

* The symptoms cause significant distress in your life or interfere with your ability to go about your normal daily tasks

 

Treatments and drugs

Post-traumatic stress disorder treatment can help you regain a sense of control over your life. With successful post-traumatic stress disorder treatment, you can also feel better about yourself and learn ways to cope if any symptoms arise again.

 

Post-traumatic stress disorder treatment often includes both medication and psychotherapy. Combining these treatments can help improve your symptoms and teach you skills to cope better with the traumatic event — and life beyond it.

 

Medications

Several types of medications can help symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder improve.

 

* Antipsychotics. In some cases, you may be prescribed a short course of antipsychotics to relieve severe anxiety and related problems, such as difficulty sleeping or emotional outbursts.

* Antidepressants. These medications can help symptoms of both depression and anxiety. They can also help improve sleep problems and improve your concentration. The selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) medications sertraline (Zoloft) and paroxetine (Paxil) are FDA-approved for the treatment of PTSD.

* Anti-anxiety medications. These drugs also can improve feelings of anxiety and stress.

* Prazosin. If your symptoms include insomnia or recurrent nightmares, a drug called prazosin (Minipress) may help. Prazosin, which has been used for years in the treatment of hypertension, also blocks the brain's response to an adrenaline-like brain chemical called norepinephrine. Although this drug is not specifically approved for the treatment of PTSD, prazosin may reduce or suppress nightmares in many people with PTSD.

 

You and your doctor will need to work together to figure out the best treatment, with the fewest side effects, for your symptoms and situation. You may see an improvement in your mood and other symptoms within a few weeks.

 

Be sure to tell your health care professional about any side effects or problems you have with the medications, as you may be able to try something different.

Psychotherapy

Several types of therapy may be used to treat both children and adults with post-traumatic stress disorder. You may try more than one, or combine types, before finding the right fit for you. You may also try individual therapy, group therapy or both. Group therapy can offer a way to connect to others going through similar experiences.

 

Some types of therapy used in PTSD treatment include:

 

* Cognitive therapy. This type of talk therapy helps you recognize the ways of thinking (cognitive patterns) that are keeping you stuck — for example, negative or inaccurate ways of perceiving normal situations.

 

In PTSD treatment, cognitive therapy often is used along with a behavioral therapy called exposure therapy.

* Exposure therapy. This behavioral therapy technique helps you safely face the very thing that you find frightening, so that you can learn to cope with it effectively. A new approach to exposure therapy uses "virtual reality" programs that allow you to re-enter the setting in which you experienced trauma — for example, a "Virtual Iraq" program.

* Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR). This type of therapy combines exposure therapy with a series of guided eye movements that help you process traumatic memories.

 

All these approaches can help you gain control of lasting fear after a traumatic event. The type of therapy that may be best for you depends on a number of factors that you and your health care professional can discuss.

 

Medications and psychotherapy also can help you if you've developed other problems related to your traumatic experience, such as depression, anxiety, or alcohol or substance abuse. You don't have to try to handle the burden of PTSD on your own.

 

Alternative medicine

Acupuncture may be helpful in improving the symptoms of PTSD. More research is needed to fully understand the safety and effectiveness of acupuncture as a treatment for PTSD. Talk with your doctor if you're interested in adding acupuncture to your treatment plan.

 

Coping and support

If stress and other problems caused by a traumatic event affect your life, seeing your health care professional is an important first step. But you can take actions to help yourself cope as you continue with treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder. Things you can do include:

 

* Follow your health professional's instructions. Although it may take a while to feel benefits from therapy or medications, most people do recover. Remind yourself that it takes time. Healing won't come overnight. Following your treatment plan will help move you forward.

* Take care of yourself. Get enough rest, eat a balanced diet, exercise and take time to relax. Avoid caffeine and nicotine, which can worsen anxiety.

* Don't self-medicate. Turning to alcohol or drugs to numb your feelings isn't healthy, even though it may be a tempting way to cope. It can lead to more problems down the road and prevent real healing.

* Break the cycle. When you feel anxious, take a brisk walk or jump into a hobby to re-focus.

* Talk to someone. Stay connected with supportive and caring family, friends, faith leaders or others. You don't have to talk about what happened, if you don't want to. Just sharing time with loved ones can offer healing and comfort.

* Consider a support group. Many communities have support groups geared to specific situations. Ask your health care professional for help finding one, look in your local phone book or contact your community's social services system.

 

....

Prevention

After surviving a traumatic event, many people have PTSD-like symptoms at first, such as being unable to stop thinking about what's happened. Fear, anxiety, anger, depression, guilt — all are common reactions to trauma. Although you may not want to talk about it to anyone or you don't want to even think about what's happened, getting support can help you recover. This may mean turning to supportive family and friends who will listen and offer comfort. It may mean that you seek out a mental health professional for a brief course of therapy. Some people also may find it helpful to turn to their faith community or a pastoral crisis counselor.

 

However you choose to get support and help, doing so can help prevent normal stress reactions from getting worse and developing into post-traumatic stress disorder. Getting support may also help prevent you from turning to unhealthy coping methods, such as alcohol use.

 

....

References

 

1. Posttraumatic stress disorder. In: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders DSM-IV-TR. 4th ed. Arlington, Va.: American Psychiatric Association; 2000. http://www.psychiatryonline.com. Accessed Jan. 5, 2011.

2. Posttraumatic stress disorder. In: Hales RE, et al. The American Psychiatric Publishing Textbook of Psychiatry. 5th ed. ArlingtonWashington, D.C.: American Psychiatric Publishing; 2008. http://www.psychiatryonline.com. Accessed Jan. 5, 2011.

3. Shalev AY. Posttraumatic stress disorder and stress-related disorders. Psychiatric Clinics of North America. 2009;32:687.

4. Practice parameter for the assessment and treatment of children and adolescents with posttraumatic stress disorder. Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry. 2010;4:414.

5. May AC, et al. Posttraumatic stress disorder In: Ferri FF. Ferri's Clinical Advisor 2011: Instant Diagnosis and Treatment. Philadelphia, Pa.: Mosby Elsevier; 2011. http://www.mdconsult.com/books/page.do?eid=4-u1.0-B978-0-323-05610-6..00025-1--sc30645&isbn=978-0-323-05610-6&type=bookPage&sectionEid=4-u1.0-B978-0-323-05610-6..00025-1--sc30645&uniqId=230982534-3. Accessed Jan. 5, 2011.

6. Holzer SR. Mediational significance of PTSD in the relationship of sexual trauma and eating disorders. Child Abuse & Neglect: The International Journal. 2008;32:561. http://www.mdconsult.com/das/citation/body/230982534-5/jorg=journal&source=MI&sp=20885418&sid=1101209736/N/20885418/1.html?issn=0145-2134. Accessed Jan. 5, 2011.

7. Understanding PTSD. National Center for PTSD. http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/understanding_ptsd/booklet.pdf. Accessed Jan. 5, 2011.

8. Nakell L. Adult post-traumatic stress disorder: Screening and treating in primary care. Primary Care: Clinics in Office Practice. 2007;34:593.

9. Acupuncture may help symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorder. National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine. http://nccam.nih.gov/research/results/spotlight/092107.htm. Accessed Jan. 5, 2011.

10. Coping with traumatic stress reactions. National Center for PTSD. http://www.ptsd.va.gov/public/pages/coping-traumatic-stress.asp. Accessed Jan. 12, 2011.

11. Hall-Flavin DK (expert opinion). Mayo Clinic, Rochester, Minn. Jan. 11, 2011.

[Punarbhava]

I've only quickly scanned these articles but I wanted to share my humble thoughts on this subject. Keep in mind that my mini rant may be off the mark since, I haven't thoroughly reviewed all that was posted.

 

 

Here goes:

 

 

I really don't like the term Disorder attached to someone's NATURAL REACTION to a Traumatic Event.

 

 

It should be called: Post Traumatic REALITY (for lack of a better word ATM).

 

 

It IS rational, natural and sane to experience intense reactions to a life assault or a series of assaults or a prolonged assault. To believe otherwise is inhumane, unnatural, and abusive to the victim IMHO.

 

 

There is something wrong with a person who does NOT exhibit any level of PTSD. One would have to be a robot not to be affected by a traumatic event. Of course there are varying degrees of trauma and people deal differently, depending upon their personality style, as well as what is regarded socially acceptable within one's culture/ethic group etc.

 

 

I found an interesting point in one of the articles that mentioned: "not to medicate in an unhealthy manner by using alcohol, yet they recommend toxic psychotropics as a solution. (LOL) We all know how bizarre that is.

 

 

Medication intervention to treat trauma will result in creating greater and likely longer lasting trauma (from violent WD syndrome). Besides, medicating the traumatic emotions will NEVER allow the person to work through their trauma. It only succeeds in numbing the person out to the point where they are no longer feeling and thus, are rendered incapable of working on the past trauma.

 

 

One needs to feel in order to know what needs to be healed. Of course, the medical community deems the act of feeling as a disease. Their attempts are strategies to CONTROL the victims reactions rather than directed towards HEALING the victim's emotional, spiritual and psychological wounds.

 

 

The sickness is within the system that is designed to control behaviors rather, than to understand, acknowledge, support and ALLOW a victim to feel NATURAL in their state of trauma. There is nothing unnatural about a stress response. It's valuable information that needs to be worked with rather than medicated.

 

Turning to the wrong people for support (whether family, friends, medical and/or even bad therapists) can actually deepen the trauma.

 

 

Thus, it's so important for a person to seek out the right help/assistance, although when one is in the depths of trauma, there is hardly any mental or physical energy to shop around. I believe it's a dilemma, especially for those who are in severe trauma states.

 

PTSD is not a disease but rather a JOURNEY of PROCESSING that which has occurred......and finding a way to regain emotional equilibrium. This is not something that can be rushed, nor controlled IMHO.

 

Processing takes time and reprocessing what one thought was previously processed is also part of the process (lol). In other words, we recycle our emotions to the trauma, many times over before we arrive at some form of balance. This recycling cannot be interrupted since, its an integral part of the healing process.

 

Emotional, spiritual and psychological healing occurs in a very NON-LINEAR fashion.

 

 

Anyway, sorry for the rant. It's directed to the medical profession and not anyone else.

 

 

Punar

[Phil]

This is a very interesting topic to me, as I believe I actually suffer from complex PTSD, because of my upbringing.

I was taught by my mother (who is on medication) that my feelings were not ok, and to not express them. Basically, I was taught that it's not ok to feel! I fully blame the medication she takes for causing her to be that way (which she went on for grief).

So in my case, I believe PTSD has been passed down to me thanks to a pharmacutical drug.

 

Sorry to be off topic by the way, I realize this doesnt really relate to actual withdrawal syndrome.

 

Thankyou Punarbhava for your wonderful post, it makes soooo much sense to me. You described it all perfectly. Infact I will copy your post and print it out, if you dont mind.

[alexjuice]

Thus, it's so important for a person to seek out the right help/assistance, although when one is in the depths of trauma, there is hardly any mental or physical energy to shop around. I believe it's a dilemma, especially for those who are in severe trauma states.

 

Punar,

 

You make probably the most important point, at least from my perspective, about how this situation became as sad as it currently is.

 

Take my case. I was very young, 18, and had developed a very bad anxiety disorder. I needed help and, from the news and media, I KNEW that help came from qualified medical professionals such as psychiatrists and psychologists.

 

When I first went to visit a doc, he told me exactly what I wanted to hear, that he would "help me" that he knew my problem and had the medications which relieved/cured/treated it. It will get better.

 

As time went on and things got worse, the one thing I held onto was that I was being treated by an expert, that I was in good hands. Things got worse, yet I was still in no condition to "shop around". My quality of life was very poor and I reassured myself that the experts MUST know what they are doing and that my recovery was only a med change away. Had to be.

 

So many people, I suspect, are in their current predicament of prolonged suffering post-med because they were sold hope, were desperate to buy it since they were suffering, and didn't have the resources or ability to verify and reach independent conclusions. When a person is suffering and a credentialed expert exalted by the media tells them It will get better, it doesn't take much effort to get the person to sign up.

 

For those of us over 30 who were started on meds in the 90s before the maturation of the internet when information exhange (like what happens here) was not possible, we almost had no other options but to take the meds considering the information available to make the decision and the desire to treat symptoms (of whatever kind) that were negatively affecting quality of life. In retrospect, I know this describes what happened to me.

 

It is a true tragedy and it's not isolated to PTSD.

 

I think that one sentence of yours, Punar, explains a great deal the mechanics of this terrible bargain.

 

Alex.I

[Altostrata]

I believe antidepressants and most psych drugs have been found to be ineffective for true PTSD, that is, the type of PTSD suffered by soldiers in combat situations.

 

I'll post more articles when I find them.

[Neuroplastic]

Processing takes time and reprocessing what one thought was previously processed is also part of the process (lol). In other words, we recycle our emotions to the trauma, many times over before we arrive at some form of balance. This recycling cannot be interrupted since, its an integral part of the healing process.

So true, Pun. And when in WD, the ruminations/OCD get so outrageously intense for the very reason of our brains temporary inability to metabolize those memories. And that is why in quite many cases therapies simply don't work, leaving the patient ever more frustrated. Fortunately, at some point, the brain catches on and the "recycling" process kicks back in.

[Neuroplastic]

I believe antidepressants and most psych drugs have been found to be ineffective for true PTSD, that is, the type of PTSD suffered by soldiers in combat situations.

 

I'll post more articles when I find them.

 

What's even worse, after entering the tolerance WD territory, the traumatic past may (and usually will) get even more nightmarish. Then the polydrugging starts.

[Punarbhava]

This is a very interesting topic to me, as I believe I actually suffer from complex PTSD, because of my upbringing.

I was taught by my mother (who is on medication) that my feelings were not ok, and to not express them. Basically, I was taught that it's not ok to feel! I fully blame the medication she takes for causing her to be that way (which she went on for grief).

So in my case, I believe PTSD has been passed down to me thanks to a pharmacutical drug.

 

Sorry to be off topic by the way, I realize this doesnt really relate to actual withdrawal syndrome.

 

Thankyou Punarbhava for your wonderful post, it makes soooo much sense to me. You described it all perfectly. Infact I will copy your post and print it out, if you dont mind.

 

Hi Phil..........'

 

 

for some reason I missed this post and/or accidentally deleted the email notification and thus, I apologize for not acknowledging it sooner. BTW, I certainly don't mind at all if you printed out my post. In fact, it's very meaningful to me to know that my thoughts were of some value to you.

 

 

If you don't mind my commenting re: your mother's unavailability and how you feel traumatized by being unheard, dismissed, invisible or invalidated etc. etc. Unfortunately, so many people grow up in similar environments. I'm so sorry this has happened to you but please know that there is hope and a way through all this.

 

 

Many times, it becomes necessary/essential for us to learn how to parent ourselves.

 

 

One of our most sacred missions in life is to find our own voice amid a world that attempts to stifle it. Not only is it important to find it but also to honour it, claim it and make with peace with being who we were meant to be, even if it may not seem to fit or align with those whom we may love the most.

 

 

It's also essential to develop the courage to honour one's voice.

 

 

We have to learn to work with our emotions by understanding the dynamics that drive our emotions. This is essential to self-understanding. Once we understand ourselves we can, more fully, embrace who we are and thus, move forward to develop our full potential. This is a process that can take many years, however the process can be accelerated IF we seek out wise guides, teachers and similar souls to assist us in our journey.

 

 

Also, if one is a sensitive soul it's important to understand that sensitivity is a gift and not a curse. People who are less sensitive in nature, many times, view sensitive people as being flawed, weak or inadequate in some form. This is a common but incorrect assessment and misconception.

 

 

In reality, it is the sensitive in this world, who are the warriors of positive social changes (who fight for injustices, inhumanities), who create the arts, in various forms, who feel deeply and thus, can experience joy, fulfillment and reverence for life, on much deeper levels than the average person.

 

 

Not to mention, sensitive souls, once they come to understand themselves, can have deeper intimate relationships with themselves and hence with others.

 

There are so many valuable gifts available IF one comes to understand and embrace one's sensitivities. It's also important to learn to work with our sensitivities rather than against them.

 

TBH, there have been times when I've cursed my sensitivities since, I'd be less affected by life IF I didn't pick up so much from my environment and from other people, however, I have learned that it is this very sensitivity that allows me, if directed appropriately, to live a richer and deeper life. Consequently, I wouldn't choose to be anything but sensitive.

 

 

I mean, I think of how many benefits I receive, on a daily basis, due to my sensitive nature. For example, my sister, who is less sensitive in nature, will view a flower but will internalize and express the visual in a far more superficial manner than would I. BTW, this doesn't make her wrong. She's just different than I.

 

 

I, on the other hand, can view the same flower and will experience a more profound response than she. This makes for a more vibrant experience and thus, enriches my life at a deeper level.

 

BTW, this doesn't mean that I run around, purging a stream of expressive thoughts (lol). Rather, I can just FEEL the flower's life and connect with it's beauty without having to be verbally expressive.

 

I guess the point I'm trying to make is ...I'd rather have a profound reaction than feeling numb/unconnected to the beauty of life.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is many times, those who wish to stifle the emotions or voices of others are those who don't wish to experience their own emotions. They fear their own vulnerabilities and thus, will numb themselves out via a variety of means. They also wish to numb out others in the process and/or they are just too numb to feel or care. Consequently, one can feel alone amid a sea of people IF one is surrounded by those who are incompatible in nature.

 

The key is to seek out similar souls (those who speak the same language) since, most times, sensitive people, are interested in exploring their lives in ways that others may not demonstrate an interest in. In doing so, we will feel a kinship with the world rather than feeling alienated, walking among foreigners (those who attempt to stifle our voices) trying to communicate when two distinct language barriers exist.

 

One thing I know, with certainty: We will never bloom to our full potential IF we remain bonded to those who wish to stifle our emotions. While they may content to numb out, disconnect from their inner spirit we can't achieve contentment while in their presence.

 

BTW, this doesn't mean that we walk away from such people. All it means is, we stop seeking that which they are unable to provide. In this way, we free them of the expectation, but most importantly, we free ourselves from the expectation so we can move forward, ready to explore a new land ..... a land populated with those who speak the same language and/or who share a similar philosophy towards life etc.

 

 

Worth mentioning: as sensitive souls we will also experience pain, loss, hurts, injustices etc. on a deeper level, however, by implementing the proper strategies and utilizing the appropriate tools, we can become more proficient at managing such losses and in fact, learn to evolve and thrive from such.

 

In the end, I guess the simplest way of stating things is that we are more connected to the world and thus, to others, due to our sensitivities. The key is to become more intimately connected to ourselves first and foremost.........to learn to understand ourselves so we can embrace our deep connection to life with greater ease, rather than becoming overwhelmed by it

 

 

It is possible to feel too connected to life while, at the same time feeling like a alien to it all. This usually happens when we do not have similar souls or a creative outlet, to express or connect with..

 

Hope I'm not talking in circles. I likely am and please forgive me but I'm still dealing with WD induced cognitive impairments and thus, constructing my thoughts is a very challenging endeavour for me, even on my few okish days.

 

 

There's a great book titled: "The Highly Sensitive Person" *How to Thrive When the World Overwhelms You)by Elaine N. Aron, Ph.D. (btw, the spelling of the last name is correct.....just one "r" and one "n").

 

Not certain if it's still available but you could check out used books stores or libraries.

It's an excellent book for those who wish to make peace with their sensitivities. More importantly, the book will move you to a place where you learn to celebrate and respect that which was given to you (sensitive disposition). BTW, this isn't a book about anxiety disorders. There is a range of sensitivities as well as degrees of sensitivities and thus, this book has a broad appeal IMHO.

 

There is a Sensitivity Self-Test at the beginning of the book and the first chapter is titled: The Facts About Being Highly Sensitive: A (Wrong) Sense of Being Flawed. You can search out this book on-line to view the chapter titles and perhaps some of it's content, not to mention, read any reviews that may be written.

 

 

As we all know, our sensitivities dramatically increase during WD but his book can also assist during this time. Just to be clear: I consider this book to be an introduction to self-understanding. One can move into exploring deeper material at a later time, if so inclined.

 

She also has a series of books on Highly Sensitive People (HSP) but TBH, I've not read all of them:

 

Highly Sensitive Work Book

Essential Survival Guide etc.

 

Check out Amazon.com to view the avaiable books she has written for HSP.

 

 

 

Final note: I've learned, through the course of time, via a variety of means, as well as life experiences, that once one finds one's voice one has less of a need to understood by others, since, one now understands oneself. Consequently, one obtains a greater degree of inner peace, self-reliance, self-confidence and most importantly, self-reverence/respect since, one is no longer attached to the "so called" "flawed" label that the world may have attempted to pin on us when we refused to align with it's insensitivities. (lol)

 

Most importantly, we become less attached to the opinions of others. This is freeing.

 

BTW, I'm not trying to appear to have it all together. (lol). While I've learned a lot about myself and others, I continue to learn, on a daily basis and thus, plan to continue this exploration for the remainder of my life. Let's just say that I'm humbled by what I still need to learn, although proud of what I've learned thus far. (lol)

 

Phil, I believe I have constructed this post in a very "instructive manner" and I so apologize for this. I'd love to rewrite the whole thing.....rephrasing etc. since, the last thing I wish to sound is "preachy" however, I'm incapable of editing my thoughts.

 

My true intention is to share and not to preach. Don't think I've acccomplished that very well but I'm going to have to "let it go" since, I've worked my mind into that horrible circular pattern which is not good (LOL).

 

Peace and Healing to All the Sensitive Souls in this World!

 

 

Punar

[Phil]

So true, Pun. And when in WD, the ruminations/OCD get so outrageously intense for the very reason of our brains temporary inability to metabolize those memories. And that is why in quite many cases therapies simply don't work, leaving the patient ever more frustrated. Fortunately, at some point, the brain catches on and the "recycling" process kicks back in.

 

This is what I feel like is happening with me right now. Any thoughts on what to do during withdrawal to cope with this? Sometimes I have so many things bugging me I don't even know what started it. When I've been able to talk and get things off my chest it's helped get a clearer idea of things (ie. reflect things back to myself).

 

Maybe during withdrawal trying to achieve *goals* through therapy won't work, but just the therapeutic relationship in itself would? Ie. having a kind, supportive listening ear.

[Phil]

 

Phil, I believe I have constructed this post in a very "instructive manner" and I so apologize for this. I'd love to rewrite the whole thing.....rephrasing etc. since, the last thing I wish to sound is "preachy" however, I'm incapable of editing my thoughts.

 

My true intention is to share and not to preach. Don't think I've acccomplished that very well but I'm going to have to "let it go" since, I've worked my mind into that horrible circular pattern which is not good (LOL).

 

Peace and Healing to All the Sensitive Souls in this World!

 

 

Punar

 

Hey, no worries! I really appreciate you taking the time to post this. A lot of it resonates. Especially about developing courage to honour ones own voice and finding like-minded people.

I must say I'm not sure if I'm highly sensitive or what I think about that. It's certainly something I'll look into.

 

Of course, withdrawal makes all this more complicated - knowing what you really think and feel, the emotional numbness, the ruminating, etc.

 

One step at a time I guess.

 

Anyway, I really admire your spirit and how you express yourself Punar

[Punarbhava]

Punar

 

Hey, no worries! I really appreciate you taking the time to post this. A lot of it resonates. Especially about developing courage to honour ones own voice and finding like-minded people.

I must say I'm not sure if I'm highly sensitive or what I think about that. It's certainly something I'll look into.

 

Of course, withdrawal makes all this more complicated - knowing what you really think and feel, the emotional numbness, the ruminating, etc.

 

One step at a time I guess.

 

Anyway, I really admire your spirit and how you express yourself Punar

 

Thank you Phil on both accounts! I suppose I assumed you were of a sensitive nature since, I thought you had posted something in another thread regarding social anxiety. Perhaps I was confused ....and it was written by someone else. So sorry about that. I didn't mean to imply that you were overly-sensitive to the extreme. (lol)

 

The book title could lead one to believe that it's catering to those who are insanely sensitive (LOL) which is just not the case for myself and many others. So, I do hope that I wasn't implying that you were in such a category.

 

Anyway, I wish to keep this brief and no need to respond since, I know how hard it is to keep up with posts.

 

 

Punar

[Punarbhava]

 

Thus, it's so important for a person to seek out the right help/assistance, although when one is in the depths of trauma, there is hardly any mental or physical energy to shop around. I believe it's a dilemma, especially for those who are in severe trauma states.

 

Punar,

 

You make probably the most important point, at least from my perspective, about how this situation became as sad as it currently is.

 

Take my case. I was very young, 18, and had developed a very bad anxiety disorder. I needed help and, from the news and media, I KNEW that help came from qualified medical professionals such as psychiatrists and psychologists.

 

When I first went to visit a doc, he told me exactly what I wanted to hear, that he would "help me" that he knew my problem and had the medications which relieved/cured/treated it. It will get better.

 

As time went on and things got worse, the one thing I held onto was that I was being treated by an expert, that I was in good hands. Things got worse, yet I was still in no condition to "shop around". My quality of life was very poor and I reassured myself that the experts MUST know what they are doing and that my recovery was only a med change away. Had to be.

 

So many people, I suspect, are in their current predicament of prolonged suffering post-med because they were sold hope, were desperate to buy it since they were suffering, and didn't have the resources or ability to verify and reach independent conclusions. When a person is suffering and a credentialed expert exalted by the media tells them It will get better, it doesn't take much effort to get the person to sign up.

 

For those of us over 30 who were started on meds in the 90s before the maturation of the internet when information exhange (like what happens here) was not possible, we almost had no other options but to take the meds considering the information available to make the decision and the desire to treat symptoms (of whatever kind) that were negatively affecting quality of life. In retrospect, I know this describes what happened to me.

 

It is a true tragedy and it's not isolated to PTSD.

 

I think that one sentence of yours, Punar, explains a great deal the mechanics of this terrible bargain.

 

Alex.I

 

Hi Alex.........

 

sorry it's taken me so long to acknowledge your post. So many important points highlighted in your personal story that have been experienced by so many. Most of us trusted the medical system. We had no reason to doubt them.

 

 

The bold text in closing paragraphs accurately depicts how things were in those days. I myself am a victim of those times and for the reasons you have stated. My nightmare began in 1991 but, as I mentioned in another thread, began with what I believed to be, seemingly benign gastrointestinal drugs to treat minor stomach indigestion.

 

 

Anyway, won't repeat what I've written in another thread. In any case, it was good to read your response since, as you know, sharing such stories removes the isolation factor and thus, creates common understanding/knowledge that so many others have experienced similar journeys.

 

With that said, it is equally painful to realize the scope of destruction .......how many lives have been challenged and damaged by such drugs and you're right re: it's not isolated to PTSD.

 

I'm so sorry you've had to go through all this. As you state: it is a horrible bargain/deal.

 

 

Much More Healing to You!

 

 

Punar

 

BTW, no need to respond. Believe me I know how hard it is to keep up with things.

[Punarbhava]

 

I believe antidepressants and most psych drugs have been found to be ineffective for true PTSD, that is, the type of PTSD suffered by soldiers in combat situations.

 

I'll post more articles when I find them.

 

What's even worse, after entering the tolerance WD territory, the traumatic past may (and usually will) get even more nightmarish. Then the polydrugging starts.

 

 

Both of your posts are so true Neuro!! Tolerance WD territory excavates any and all past traumas, major and even minor life events and they hit with tsumanic force.... flooding it's victim.

 

I've had my whole life play out in my mind .....like a series of horror movies running over and over again ....without any provocation on my part.

 

 

It's like one's memory database gets high-jacked and embarks on an UN-ORDERED mission to consume the mind.

 

 

I had to work diligently to issue ABORT MISSION orders, via a variety of means, in an effort to counteract the feelings of inner horror/fear/terror etc.

 

The strange thing about severe tolerance WD is that one will feel one's past traumas 100 times greater degree than when it originally occurred.

 

At least that's what I have experienced and I certainly can't be the only one.

 

 

Punar

[Punarbhava]

 

So true, Pun. And when in WD, the ruminations/OCD get so outrageously intense for the very reason of our brains temporary inability to metabolize those memories. And that is why in quite many cases therapies simply don't work, leaving the patient ever more frustrated. Fortunately, at some point, the brain catches on and the "recycling" process kicks back in.

 

This is what I feel like is happening with me right now. Any thoughts on what to do during withdrawal to cope with this? Sometimes I have so many things bugging me I don't even know what started it. When I've been able to talk and get things off my chest it's helped get a clearer idea of things (ie. reflect things back to myself).

 

Maybe during withdrawal trying to achieve *goals* through therapy won't work, but just the therapeutic relationship in itself would? Ie. having a kind, supportive listening ear.

 

Hi Phil.........

 

I'll try to keep this brief since, I'm sure you're sick of me by now (LOL). What you say is true for some people re: the therapeutic relationship can help many people. Support is very important and can make someone feel SAFE amid the WD journey.

 

In other cases, such as mine and as with others, talking out problems/fears and/or traumas can actually feel traumatizing in of itself, since, my CNS was in such an extreme state that I couldn't talk about my thoughts ..... doing so illicting extreme emotional reactions which created a greater flood of stress hormones. My CNS was far too damaged and fragile.

 

 

Consequently, I had to consciously flood my mind with reassuring thoughts, images etc. I had to create visual cues such as sticky notes posted around my house as reminders. I was in no shape to endure any form of therapy at that time.

 

BTW, I do not recommend going it alone since having to do so creates another level of trauma.

 

So, I would very much encourage you, if your CNS can handle it, to seek out support from others who can at least make you feel safe in whatever ways you need.

 

You have reiterated Neuro's point well re: trying to achieve goals during therapy can be counterproductive and actually create greater levels of anxiety/stress due to the pressure factor alone, not to mention, one's CNS isn't always resilient enough to endure such a process.

 

Key point worth mentioning is: everyone is different. WD experiences vary in intensities. Eg. those who slowly taper and are able to stablized between dose reductions, will likely have CNS that are able to engage in various forms of therapy which can be very beneficial. They likely will have more options and greater flexibility in regard to achieving goals.

 

However, those in severe WD states eg. C/T and/or severe tolerance WD states will likely be unable to engage in similar fashion. They will be far more restricted. Goal orientated therapies can overwhelm their CNS, not to mention, it is not the time to work on past traumas since, they are experiecing the present trauma of severe WD and thus, must get through this first.

 

Seek out what you feel you're comfortable with Phil and never mind what anyone else recommends. Only you know what you need and what you can handle at this stage of WD and thus, seek to have those needs meet, if possible.

 

BTW, you don't have to commit to anything that you feel is not providing benefit. If you try out something and if it's causing you greater distress then cease exposing yourself to it and search out something new.

 

There'll be plenty of time to work on other life issues ONCE you have more fully recovered from WD. Your first mission is to get through WD and seek out therapies, friendships, environments which make you feel safe and supported.

 

Okay, I wrote too much again. So sorry but I couldn't respond to your question in a line or two.

 

Okay, my mission was to get caught up on posts within this thread. Mission is now accomplished. Time to exit. (lol)

 

Positive Healing Energy to You!

 

Punar

[Phil]

Thankyou so much for your post, Punar. It's just what I needed to hear right now.

I think that because I have struggled so long with anxiety and such (its part of my personality) Ive always had this strong desire to "get better", but during withdrawal all that "trying" seems to cause extra stress. So hearing how you have handled your w/d helps me to see where I may be tripping myself up with mine.

 

One thing I do lack that is making it hard is someone safe and supportive. Due to social anxiety Ive never had many friends and withdrawal has meant Ive avoided contact even more. So I think my only option is to see some kind of counsellor. And I agree, that w/d itself is a trauma and so looking at past traumas is not a good idea.

 

Anyway thankyou for your help its much appreciated.

 

BTW, sorry for derailing the thread somewhat, guys.

[Punarbhava]

Thankyou so much for your post, Punar. It's just what I needed to hear right now.

 

 

Oh, I'm so glad my post was of some help. Many times, during WD, one can get down on oneself in regard to not being able to "get with the program" (lol) and thus, self-esteem can erode. However, once one understands the nature of CNS malfunctioning, one can learn to work within the limitations, rather than pushing too hard against the limitations.

 

 

I think that because I have struggled so long with anxiety and such (its part of my personality) Ive always had this strong desire to "get better",

 

It's wonderful that you have such a strong desire to empower yourself. Many people with anxiety feel comfortable living with the status quo and tend to develop serious codependent relationships which becomes self-defeating and counterproductive. So, it's wonderful that you have the desire to take personal responsibility to manage your life.

 

 

but during withdrawal all that "trying" seems to cause extra stress. So hearing how you have handled your w/d helps me to see where I may be tripping myself up with mine.

 

Yes, as you mention, we can trip ourselves up during withdr. IF we insist on utilizing interventions/therapies which overstimulate our CNS. There's nothing wrong with "trying". In fact, we need to try however, we must direct our energies towards implementing therapeutic interventions that are more appropriately designed to assist a oversensitized CNS created by WD.

 

 

One thing I do lack that is making it hard is someone safe and supportive. Due to social anxiety Ive never had many friends and withdrawal has meant Ive avoided contact even more.

 

I completely understand all you have articulated. Our ability to socialize can become seriously hampered during WD.

 

 

So I think my only option is to see some kind of counsellor.

 

A good therapist/counsellor is actually the best option since, they are trained in active listening and thus, your voice will be heard, understood and consequently you will feel supported. Many times friends and family cannot provide this (even though they may have the best of intentions) simply because they have not be trained in the "art of listening".

 

 

A good therapist will also help one avoid falling into the codependency trap which can easily occur between friends and family if all parties are unaware). Appropriate therapy will encourage the development of self-reliance in way of managing one's emotional reactions/thoughts, the art of self-soothing..........how to make oneself feel safe etc.

 

And I agree, that w/d itself is a trauma and so looking at past traumas is not a good idea.

 

Anyway thankyou for your help its much appreciated.

 

BTW, sorry for derailing the thread somewhat, guys.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for appreciating my efforts. BTW, You're doing such a fine job managing mostly alone but it will do you a whole lot of good to access some support to ease some of the pressure, as well as the emotional and social isolation factor.

 

 

 

I better post this since, my mind is beginning to feel crazy (lol) from thinking too much (lol).

 

 

Wonderful Healing to You Phil!

 

 

Punar

[Bluebird2009]

On 3/19/2011 at 7:39 PM, Altostrata said:

I don't agree with the PTSD theory of prolonged withdrawal syndrome. Some doctors are using this to absolve the drugs, again.

 

It depends on what you mean by PTSD. It's a fuzzy concept. Some researchers think it is an emotional reaction to stress, a panic or anxiety syndrome. Some believe a traumatic emotional shock may remodel the brain in a dysfunctional way, a more physiological model.

 

However, it is clear in withdrawal syndrome that the shock is chemical, not emotional, although many of the symptoms are the same. (Anxiety about symptoms can exacerbate them, that is true in both conditions.)

 

Symptom-wise, there is overlap between the hyperalerting caused by iatrogenic damage and the hyperalerting in PTSD, sometimes attributed to intense fear.

 

In PTSD, the fear response generates, perhaps, neurological remodeling, which generates the biochemical fear response. They both become self-reinforcing cycles.

 

In withdrawal syndrome, the iatrogenic damage generates the biochemical fear response independent of your emotions.

 

This is exactly why people who have diagnosed themselves with withdrawal syndrome (everyone on this site) reject doctor's diagnoses of anxiety disorder or other psychiatric conditions.

 

Commonly, they say, "But it's not me, there's something physical about it."

 

I do believe that studying withdrawal syndrome can illuminate some issues in PTSD, as well as how these drugs work and don't work.

Hi I have been told I have ptsd now and I don't know what to believe. I have been in withdrawal nearly 2 years now but was have nervous system issues long before I came off. I have awful adrenaline surges and I can't tolerate any stress even normal daily life stress. Constant anxiety and knot in my stomach. Terrible chest pressure and still reacting to lots of medication, nearly everything including foods. When I have my period my body is completely off, temperature doesn't regulate, nails and fingers turn blue after eating really strange symptoms. Endocrinologist says this isn't drug issue anymore it's ptsd and histamine problem and trying to get me on another drug but body is saying no. My depression has all lifted which is fabulous, still having heightened smell and loss of taste and unrelenting anxiety. Can anyone tell me is thai withdrawal or is it me? I feel it's my body is doing this not me as I was in holiday last week with no stress and still had awful internal terror is how I wld describe it. I don't know who or what to believe as another group I'm in told me that any symptoms left at 2 years off are permanent and I cldnt live with this constant pain. My nervous system feels constantly desregulated, advice appreciated. Thank you

[Petunia]

Bluebird2009,

I could have written your symptom description for myself 2 years ago, they are withdrawal related and will improve in time. Recovery from these drugs and from coming off them too fast can most definitely last longer than 2 years. I was still very sick at 2 years off, but now I'm very much recovered and feel fairly normal much of the time. There are many case studies here and on other sites of people taking longer than 2 years to recover, so I don't understand why some people say its not possible for it to take longer, perhaps because it wasn't their personal experience. Don't worry you will continue to improve over time until you recover, no mater how long it takes.

 

Because our whole body and all its systems are effected by the action of these drugs, its very likely that histamine balance can be impacted and will also need to recover as part of the ongoing recovery process. I'm currently having some symptoms which seem to be histamine related, but I see it as just part of my ongoing recovery and rebalancing process.

 

I do agree that the 'trauma' of withdrawal can create a secondary kind of PTSD, but that doesn't mean withdrawal itself is PTSD

[Bluebird2009]

Thankyou Petunia, I'm am just so fed up with this and I am getting advice from all directions and don't know who or what to believe, I'm much improved from a year ago but still have a way to go. My worst issue is the sensitivity to medication and foods it is awful and then not being believed it's happening is horrible. Also my morning anxiety is tough and my

endo says this is real and I need medication to stop it🙁

[Evoldnahturt]

I was concerned about developing PTSD when I was sicker.  I've noticed that over time, I've forgotten what that experience was like and my fear of it, and pain in general, is fading along with those memories.  I think this is partly due to time doing it's job, but also because I chose to try to not think about it.  It's really hard to do if you aren't used to it, but just like meditating, learning, and exercising, it gets easier over time.  You can train your brain to stop thinking about it if you try over a long period of time.  You'll fail miserably at first if you aren't practiced in this technique yet, but you should gradually get better at it. I've noticed that every time I've left a bad situation, the damage done by being in that situation has lessened as those unpleasant memories fade.  It usually takes years for me, but if you're persistent, you should be able to get results.  Alternatively, some people choose to obsess over their trauma and process it for the rest of their lives.  The memories remain fresh and they never get over it.  I believe this technique would work for most people and I would like to encourage you to try it.  If you would like to go deeper, I would recommend studying stoic philosophy.  I believe it's an effective antidote to the depression that can come from understanding dark subjects like this.

[Kronos18]

On 12/18/2018 at 3:01 AM, Evoldnahturt said:

I was concerned about developing PTSD when I was sicker.  I've noticed that over time, I've forgotten what that experience was like and my fear of it, and pain in general, is fading along with those memories.  I think this is partly due to time doing it's job, but also because I chose to try to not think about it.  It's really hard to do if you aren't used to it, but just like meditating, learning, and exercising, it gets easier over time.  You can train your brain to stop thinking about it if you try over a long period of time.  You'll fail miserably at first if you aren't practiced in this technique yet, but you should gradually get better at it. I've noticed that every time I've left a bad situation, the damage done by being in that situation has lessened as those unpleasant memories fade.  It usually takes years for me, but if you're persistent, you should be able to get results.  Alternatively, some people choose to obsess over their trauma and process it for the rest of their lives.  The memories remain fresh and they never get over it.  I believe this technique would work for most people and I would like to encourage you to try it.  If you would like to go deeper, I would recommend studying stoic philosophy.  I believe it's an effective antidote to the depression that can come from understanding dark subjects like this.

Very good said.That’s why Altostrata shown a way of “changing the channel”, time will pass anyway, so is individual, who will obsess over symptoms and who will let go.

[ChessieCat]

merged similar topics

[Happy2Heal]

On 4/23/2011 at 12:07 PM, Rhiannon said:

But like Stan points out, if the hypervigilance is caused by screwed up chemicals, can that work?

I know this is a very old post but I was looking for posts about PTSD and stumbled on this

 

I can say that almost with certainty that what you do to alleviate PTSD symptoms does NOT work for chemical caused symptoms

 

you can learn to accept and float thru the symptoms of WD from these chemicals but you can NOT eliminate the symptoms

 

with some work, you can reduce and eventually halt PTSD symptoms

 

does not work for withdrawal from antidepressants

 

at least, not for me!

 

[Thorin]

An old topic with not many comments. For people that are a long way through your journey. If you had PTSD symptoms of cPTSD symptoms. Did WD make them worse or more prevalent for you? And did healing from WD reduce the severity and frequency of cPTSD symptoms? I can’t know for sure but I suspect my cPTSD will reduce a little after I finish withdrawing and have healed. I may be way off the mark but the WD adds all sorts of psychological and emotional symptoms so would make sense that it exacerbates trauma responses if you have them. Would love to hear from other people though.

[Happy2Heal]

7 hours ago, Thorin said:

For people that are a long way through your journey. If you had PTSD symptoms of cPTSD symptoms. Did WD make them worse or more prevalent for you? And did healing from WD reduce the severity and frequency of cPTSD symptoms? I can’t know for sure but I suspect my cPTSD will reduce a little after I finish withdrawing and have healed. I may be way off the mark but the WD adds all sorts of psychological and emotional symptoms so would make sense that it exacerbates trauma responses if you have them. Would love to hear from other people though.

hi @Thorin

I'm finished with withdrawal and fully recovered, been off lexapro for 5 yrs now

 

Yes I believe that WD does exacerbate trauma responses. I can't know for sure because I can't know what it's like to go thru with WD without the very long trauma history that I have, but I  have read the stories here of others with a trauma history and they also thought that was a factor in how difficult some symptoms were.

 

Now that I am fully recovered from withdrawal I still have PTSD symptoms but I feel better able to deal with most of them. The only time I have a problem is when I start to believe that I have no control over them- that there is nothing I can do to alleviate them. I spent the vast majority of my life being told that only drugs were going to help me, I got extremely little helpful therapy like CBT etc or even suggestions on how to handle trauma related stuff.  So it's understandable that I'd think that I was helpless to do anything, so while trauma symptoms are easier to deal with, overcoming the mindset that I can't do anything about the, that only a drug is going to help, that takes more work for me. I don't beat myself up for that, I just have to keep reminding myself that I have a lot more control than I ever knew or understood before.

 

 

so the short answer is, after WD recovery, any trauma like symptoms should subside.  Things will get better!

 

my life now is very different from the 40plus years that I spent drugged, and it's 10000% better than the WD recovery years. For a few years after getting to zero, things just kept getting better and better!  I never felt this good in all my life- my first 18 yrs were pure hell and then the subsequent 40+ on drugs were bad in different ways, NOW I am finally able to LIVE!  

Even now, I still find things that are improving, but it's hard to tell if that's thru my own efforts or if it's due to no longer being dulled by the drugs, or what it is really.

 

I have run into a serious health issue the past few months, so since the summer, life has been not so joyful for me, but once my medical issue is resolved, I look forward to resuming my very very good life

 

I hope that your recovery will bring you to a similar place!! 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Happy2Heal

[Thorin]

9 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

hi @Thorin

I'm finished with withdrawal and fully recovered, been off lexapro for 5 yrs now

 

Yes I believe that WD does exacerbate trauma responses. I can't know for sure because I can't know what it's like to go thru with WD without the very long trauma history that I have, but I  have read the stories here of others with a trauma history and they also thought that was a factor in how difficult some symptoms were.

 

Now that I am fully recovered from withdrawal I still have PTSD symptoms but I feel better able to deal with most of them. The only time I have a problem is when I start to believe that I have no control over them- that there is nothing I can do to alleviate them. I spent the vast majority of my life being told that only drugs were going to help me, I got extremely little helpful therapy like CBT etc or even suggestions on how to handle trauma related stuff.  So it's understandable that I'd think that I was helpless to do anything, so while trauma symptoms are easier to deal with, overcoming the mindset that I can't do anything about the, that only a drug is going to help, that takes more work for me. I don't beat myself up for that, I just have to keep reminding myself that I have a lot more control than I ever knew or understood before.

 

 

so the short answer is, after WD recovery, any trauma like symptoms should subside.  Things will get better!

 

my life now is very different from the 40plus years that I spent drugged, and it's 10000% better than the WD recovery years. For a few years after getting to zero, things just kept getting better and better!  I never felt this good in all my life- my first 18 yrs were pure hell and then the subsequent 40+ on drugs were bad in different ways, NOW I am finally able to LIVE!  

Even now, I still find things that are improving, but it's hard to tell if that's thru my own efforts or if it's due to no longer being dulled by the drugs, or what it is really.

 

I have run into a serious health issue the past few months, so since the summer, life has been not so joyful for me, but once my medical issue is resolved, I look forward to resuming my very very good life

 

I hope that your recovery will bring you to a similar place!! 

What a fantastic post, full of hope and joy at having recovered. Thank you very much! I hope my experience is similar to yours. I’m sorry to hear about your current health issue but I trust you will improve with time as the issue resolves. Thanks again!

[Nypeaches89]

Hi everyone , hi @Altostrata

Im really full of questions in regards to this PTSD/ withdrawal thing. 
Here’s my story 

So it’s been almost already 2 years that I’m struggling with PAWS. I am getting MUCH better. But yesterday I’ve been hit by what I’d call a PTSD trigger, much like Alex responded to this thread in 2011, the « mega fear » or « mega stress » thing, I find myself very much in what he says. I was diagnosed with PTSD 1,5 year ago by my therapist while in PAWS. Subsequently she did some CBT trauma work on me and honestly I think it worked. But it came back. My big confusion is that these PTSD reactions, I think I started getting them during my PAWS, I don’t remember Having these intense reactions to silly things before that. The (small t ) trauma dates from my childhood, but the crazy over reacting and the debilitating emotional pain is since withdrawal. I guess my confusion is: do I have ptsd or did PAWS give me ptsd because it dysregulated me, made me weaker, broke something in my psyche? Have you found a lot of people finding ptsd like reactions since PAWS on this forum? Im so confused so sorry I can’t formulate things in a clearer way.  

[Nypeaches89]

On 12/30/2022 at 10:35 AM, Thorin said:

An old topic with not many comments. For people that are a long way through your journey. If you had PTSD symptoms of cPTSD symptoms. Did WD make them worse or more prevalent for you? And did healing from WD reduce the severity and frequency of cPTSD symptoms? I can’t know for sure but I suspect my cPTSD will reduce a little after I finish withdrawing and have healed. I may be way off the mark but the WD adds all sorts of psychological and emotional symptoms so would make sense that it exacerbates trauma responses if you have them. Would love to hear from other people though.

Hi, I feel the same. How are you now? 

[Happy2Heal]

13 minutes ago, Nypeaches89 said:

I guess my confusion is: do I have ptsd or did PAWS give me ptsd because it dysregulated me, made me weaker, broke something in my psyche? Have you found a lot of people finding ptsd like reactions since PAWS on this forum? Im so confused so sorry I can’t formulate things in a clearer way.  

you may never be able to find out if you had PTSD before PAWS depending on when and why you were put on meds

 

I have had symptoms of PTSD for most of my life, and the meds kind of helped a bit on that regard, as they sometimes dampened down the freeze, flee, fight or appease reactions

but it also made it hard if not impossible to work on those reactions in any meaningful way

 

I have PTSD FROM withdrawal as well as from decades ago

I can tell you that withdrawal gave me all sorts of odd fears I NEVER had before- and it also exaggerated old fears and brought up ones that I had totally worked thru in the past, so in my opinion, PAWs causes symptoms that can easily be confused with PTSD

 

I'm 6yrs off now and I struggle sometimes with PTSD symptoms and feel that I am much for sensitive to them than in the past.  But I am working thru them and finding ways to handle them so overall the trend is still positive and I don't regret for  a second getting off the drugs

I don't know if this helps you any

but I hope so

[Nypeaches89]

8 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

can tell you that withdrawal gave me all sorts of odd fears I NEVER had before- and it also exaggerated old fears and brought up ones that I had totally worked thru

That’s what I meant, absolutely. It brings up things that I really thought I had processed and fixed forever , and my emotional reaction is so disproportionate and intense it scares me. I do think withdrawal maybe makes us weaker and more sensitive to triggers  ?? 
 

 

16 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

PAWs causes symptoms that can easily be confused with PTSD

… and that’s the part where I’m confused again! I really think it *is* a ptsd response (in my case at least). I had nightmares all night, which never happens for example. But in short I think  that ptsd would stay in its « dormant » or « inactive » mode if I weren’t in PAWS.. I think. 
 

Anyway thanks for your quick response, it is much appreciated. I hope I will finally manage to heal this stupid trauma once and for all at some point because I’m so done.  🙏🏻