☼ n1gm4: difficulty going off mirtazapine

[n1gm4]

Hi, this is my first post here. I apologize for my English, I'm french-canadian and english is not my first language.

 

I once tappered succesfully from Paxil and Lexapro. I did a slow taper on Paxil and quit Lexapro cold turkey without too much side effect. I took these drugs for a couple of years.

 

But I too have problem to quit Mirtazapine. I took it since 3 years, 30 mg at the beginning and my Doctor tapered me to 15 mg and I didnt have side effect.

But each time I try to quit this medication, I have insomnia at night with multiple awakening with anxiety, Which I dont understand because I'm currently in vacation and not stress during the day. I have very weird dreams , vivid.

 

I tell this to my doctor but he barely dismiss my symptoms and told me this is a medication very easy to withdraw from and it's suppose to take 2 weeks only. He told me it is my symptoms of anxiety that are coming back and therefore I need medication.

 

Let me present myself briefly. I'm a men in my early 30s. I have been on and off medication for several years, mainly antidepressant for anxiety  who create sleep problems. I now have change a lot since I began medication 12 years ago, I have seen a psychologist who help me a lot, I practice martial arts since last september and it changed a lot of things in the way I see life and everything.

 

The problem is each time I try going off Remeron, insomnia and anxiety keep crawling back and I never knows if it is a withdrawal effect or if I'm truly mentally sick

 

Thank you for reading me and I'm glad to finally join your community.

 

 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hi n1 and welcome!

 

A moderator will stop by and move your post to your very own topic in the Intro Forum where all of your questions can be answered about your situation.

 

We are glad you are here, you'll get a lot of good info and support here.

[dalsaan]

Hi N1

 

Here is a link to a thread on tapering off mirtazapine http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/?hl=mirtazapine

 

I think rebound insomnia and anxiety are common withdrawal problems. I have experienced them myself. Mirtazapine seems to have a reputation in the medical community for being easy to come off. It probably is for some but that's not my experience. I have had to slow taper over a long period of time to hold the withdrawal symptoms at bay.

 

When you have gone off your medication and I reinstated it again, how long did it take for your symptoms to go away?

[Bayboy]

You should be able to get the liquid from a compound pharmacy, I had no problem. It's advantageous when you get down to smaller doses as it is easier to measure. I am new here and just learning too.

 

Bayboy

[wulfgar]

Hi N1,

 

Welcome! Many of us have reduce mirtazapine slowly to avoid the symptoms you are having/describing. You have come to the right place! English is not my first language either. Every one is friendly here. No one have even mentioned my spelling or grammar.

 

I too have had problems getting of mirtazapine, insomnia being the worst one.

 

There are some general threads to read here that will get you started. Here is one about tapering mirtazapine: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/?hl=mirtazapine

 

Regards

Wulfgar

[n1gm4]

Thank you very much for your answer. I really appreciate. In response to dalsaan, I think  the night I reinstated Mirtazapine, the symptoms goes away immediately or the night after. It is very quick.

 

Bayboy, I would like to know where to look for a compounding pharmacy, where did you find one? thanks

[Bayboy]

Go to www.acpcrx.org, it is the association of compounding pharmacists of Canada. Once there, you can locate pharmacy closest to you that will utilize compounding if you decide to go this route. The experts on this site will help you. Hope you feel better soon.

[n1gm4]

Thanks Bayboy, I will do like you and reinstate at 7.5mg. I quit cold turkey 15mg last week and I dont want to endure all the symptoms. I try in 2012 to tough the withdrawal symptoms but they stayed for 6 weeks and I had enough and resume Remeron. The lack of sleep was the killer, it was too much, job, family, daily stress and cherry on the sunday. I'm exhaust but cant sleep at night, and when I found sleep, I was awaken with a surge of anxiety. I try Melatonin, Nytol to help but with no result. The only supplement I take is omega 3.

 

So, I think I deserve this time to do it more kindly for myself.

 

Good night

[dalsaan]

Hi  n1gh4, 

 

If your symptoms resolve that quick you can be very confident it is withdrawal and not relapse.   These two are commonly confused by medical practitioners.

 

be gentle with your system, its the only one you have.  going cold turkey is very harsh.

 

Dalsaan

[n1gm4]

Hello guys,

 

I reinstate Mirtazapine yestreday and slept for about 10 hours after a week of poor sleep without remeron. I took half of a 15 mg tablet.I would like to know if some of you have any success with a homemade liquid solution and if it is possible to make one with mirtazapine?  

Thanks

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Here is a link that may answer some of your questions:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/

 

Several members are currently tapering the same drug and can help you digest the info in the link.

[n1gm4]

A little update, almost a week since reinstating remeron at 7.5 mg. I mostly feel good without symptoms except mild abdomnial cramp, mostly in the morning and vivid dreams , I think i should make Science-fiction movies with these dreams and I could make some money

 

I dont have anxiety awekening during the night, if i awake, I dont feel this cortisol adrenalin feeling. So I hope it continue this way for a couple more weeks. It is the first time in 12 years that I take a slow approach like this and I thank you for the support.

 

I dont post too often and will explain why. I realized that when I try to taper (I had a couple of attempts) I became very very focused on the withdrawal process, how i'm feeling, I stress over the fact I have too much anxiety, i focus on my insomnia and it become a really vicious circle. So now I try a flexible approach, there is a lot of things I like that I let go normally in tapering because I become too focus and singleminded in the tapering. So instead this time, I aim for a slow taper and the less withdrawal symptom possible. I dont want the 'I have to tough the symtoms and fight it' attitude. I want to live exactly like I do normally. I enjoy Jiu Jitsu (started last

semptember) and will continue. I enjoy reading a good book., watching movie etc. These are important and not the process of taper whitch have to become secondary.

 

Thank you

[Altostrata]

Exactly. Tapering is a long-term project that should not interfere with your daily life. Good to hear you're feeling better.

[n1gm4]

Hi, a little update.

 

I had a little setback early this week. Let me explain, I didnt work for almost 7 weeks because of a newborn child. This week was my comeback to work 'reality'. Whenever I'm anxious or have daily stress, it almost always have repercussion on my sleep: multiple awakening, awake at 3-4 am and unable to fall asleep due to anxiety etc. In my case, there's a fine line between insomnia, anxiety and withdrawal symptoms because the main reason why I was put on medication several years ago was because of insomnia cause by anxiety. So when early this week I experienced unrestful sleep and insomnia. It of course exacerbated my anxiety level and I was scared that I had a big setback after feeling good for more than 8-9 months (when i starded martial arts) Tuesday night, when I woke up at 3h00 am, I was really anxious to not sleep again that night that I took a 7.5 mg remeron dose. I know i shouldnt but I did it. But I know now it cant be about withdrawal because I felt good since april 20 when I started the 7.5 mg dose.

 

And things turn quicky for the better on wedsnday, I felt better at work and goes to a jiu jitsu class and things were brighter. I also set an appointment with my psychologist, I havent seen him in a year, he really help me in the past. So I still take 7.5 mg dose and did not cheat again by taking an extra dose in the night. Even if it probably more a placebo effect that I fell asleep immediately after the dose

 

I thank you for reading me, even if I dont post often, it's great to know that I'm not alone and that nice people like you are here to support and help others.

[Altostrata]

If withdrawal symptoms go away after reinstatement of the drug, that is evidence you were suffering withdrawal, not relapse.

 

Good to hear you're doing better. When you want to come off Remeron, please consider tapering by 10% per month or even less, as you may be sensitive to rebound insomnia.

[Jemima]

Hi N1,

 

Here's a link to directions for making your own liquids.  It seems that many antidepressants aren't fully water soluble, but they can be made into a solution that should be measured and taken immediately after a good shaking of the container:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/

 

A compounding pharmacy is really your best bet, though, and I'd think in a city as large as Montreal you'd have several to choose from. I'm glad to see that the reinstatement worked for you. Withdrawal following cold turkey or a too fast taper is hellish.

[dalsaan]

Hi N1gm4

 

Glad things have made a turn for the better. Have you considered magnesium for your sleep? I am coming off remeron and have rebound insomnia. Magnesium helps me relax and therefore sleep-it's better than taking an extra dose. Interestingly the sleep effects of remeron are more prevalent at lower doses than higher doses

 

Take care

 

Dalsaan

[HappyFree]

Hi! I have also found magnesium helpful for sleep. Thanks for the reminder!

[n1gm4]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been a month at 7.5 mg, I feel good and I'm close to try to cut the dosage but first since I dont want to break the pill more than a half. (I'm not comfortable with breaking the pill in quarter, the pièces are so uneven. I will make my own liquid solution. The mirtazapine pill disintegrate pretty fast. So I will put the 15 mg pill in 15 ml of water. Shake it and take 7.5 ml, the same dosage I'm currently taking, just to see how I'm feeling. It it's ok after a while, I will begin cutting the dosage.

[Jemima]

That's the way to go--carefully!

[n1gm4]

Thanks for the tip about magnesium Dalsaan.

[Petunia]

Hi n1,

 

I'm glad to hear you are doing well.  Its nice to see when people are extra careful and happy to be patient.  Do let us know when you make a cut.

 

Please would you put your withdrawal history in your signature, it helps people understand your context when they read your posts, here is how to do it:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Petu.

[mlrp]

Hi, N1,

 

Just a hello from another newcomer. I am sorry things have been so challenging for you, and I wish you much success in recovery. I will be interested to see how things go for you because eventually I will also be tapering off of Remeron. But first, I have to deal with Wellbutrin and lorazepam, so I have a ways to go.

 

I relate to what you have posted about becoming too focused on symptoms. I've been doing that lately, in part, because my withdrawal was SO bumpy it demanded my attention (if you know what I mean), and in part because I feel as if I have finally found a safe, reliable resource in this forum. So, I've kind of "fallen in" to learning as much as I can, and also to trying to document symptoms and figure everything out as quickly as possible. I clearly need to cultivate patience and return to living life while in recovery.

 

I am very new here, but I think I can share that I am having moderate success relieving cortisol symptoms by adding magnesium citrate supplementation and epsom salt soaks.

 

Anyway, bienvenue and bonne chance!! (My mother is French, and I speak if ok, but I don't write it very well. :-)

[n1gm4]

Hello mlrp,

 

Sorry for the delay, I just read your post. You came to the right place for the support and help from generous people on this website. Welcome aboard. I know it's hard to not becoming too focused about the withdrawal symptoms. Sometime when the anxiety and insomnia happen, I didnt know if it was withdrawal or if I really have a mental problem and need medication for life. I felt very alone even if I have a wife and childrens. I took medication for a long period for anxiety and insomnia. I disliked the fact that I have to take medication to have a normal life but it was the only way I knew. Until I met a psychologist who help me to gain confidence and made me question myself why I needed (or thought I needed) antidepressant since I was not depressed. I wont lie, I am an anxious person and I have period of insomnia from time to time but does I need a medication for life for this reason? Doctors are really fast to prescribe psychiatric medication on these days and doesnt know a lot about withdrawal. I think that for a suscessful withdrawal, determination is of course important but at first, you have to be satisfied with your life (friends, community, job) not everything have to be perfect but it will help. Then after, you have to go slowly and try to maintain a nice comfort level of withdrawal and not disturb your life. Most important is to continue to have fun, have plesant activies and think the least possible that you're trying to leave medication. This is what worked for me, the best move i made was to join  a martial art class where I met nice people and found something between family and job. It can be any activity depending of the people but to be part of a community is nice too. Since you take a combination of drugs, I recommend that you talk to your doctor at first. I've done it without my dr but I sure hoped I had a dr who take time to wean me off but unfortunaly he's pro-medication . Good luck and bonne chance to you.

[mlrp]

n1,

 

Thank you for your warm and thoughtful reply. As you will see, I have been away from this community for over a month (due to tragic family events) but I'm glad to be back - it really is the only place I feel understood and, most importantly, the place where my gut tells me real answers can be found to this terrible culture of over-prescribed medications. I agree with everything you have said, and I'm glad you found a psychologist who helped you question the need for antidepressants. I am only now realizing that even though I did have an emotional crisis, with severe sleep deprivation, I probably did NOT need antidepressants (at most, maybe sleeping pills for a short time) and they only created more and worse problems. I'm also realizing, as you wisely point out, that life is not always "easy," but it is possible to cope with occasional anxiety and insomnia without the use of psychiatric medications. It's all about "distress tolerance," as I am now learning. I hope to soon start increasing my socializing, and exercise (gently, because it's been a long time!). Unfortunately, I have no faith in my doctors. One of them recommended I could almost cold-turkey the Wellbutrin - thank God I didn't - I went very slowly (by his standards) and still ended up with serious withdrawal symptoms. I have a lot of faith in the wisdom of this community. There are some brilliant minds here. 

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I wish you well with everything and hope you are continuing to enjoy your martial arts classes. 

[tgirl]

How are you doing?

[n1gm4]

Hi everyone, sorry to have vanished. Let me do an update, I quit remeron 6 months ago, very slowly. I was on it for the past 4 years. To be honest, on one hand I'm glad I quit, on the other I didnt have a really nice good night since that time. I was put on remeron for insomnia, mostly anxiety at night and frequent awakening or early awakening. But I dont like to rely on a pill on a daily basis, It pisses me off, that's why I still see a psychologist from time to time.

 

6 months after, I know it cannot be withdrawal anymore, it is just my anxious nature I imagine. I dont have any ,major problem in my life, it's not perfect but sometime a minor problem can Wake me up at night and it get out of proportion. In the last weeks, I thought of going back on medication but a something in me say no. It is hard to have a clear mind when you experience  3-5 hours of interrupted sleep.( not all night are that bad) I then question myself if I'm depressed or why am I so anxious. I must be defective. But I stil carry on with martial arts, job, family and everything. But oh God I would like a 10 hour night without waking up (I exagerate a little)

 

Again, I'm sorry to not have posted more while quitting medication.

[Altostrata]

Good to hear from you, n1.

 

We have lots of suggestions to improve sleep -- see Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Also potentially helpful: Glycine, taurine

 

I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol

☼

to the title of your Intro topic, to show you're recovering.

Please continue to let us know how you're doing. I hope you will add your story to our Recovery Success Stories eventually!

[n1gm4]

Thank you Altostrata. It's nice to know we're not alone.

[JanCarol]

Hello N1 - another martial artist!

 

I have been off for a year because of an injured hand (grappling not so good on older hands - slow to heal!).

 

I miss my karate so much - I went into karate withdrawal!  I couldn't even taper, I went off karate cold turkey!

 

I am thinking of a bridging taper to a different, less violent school.  It will not improve my fighting skills much - but - it will be a steady practice with less injury.  You know how important it is to keep it steady and stable!  

 

My hand is better most of the time, but I may have to wait until January before I can ramp up my karate dosage safely.

 

I hope you are still feeling better, and that you come back to visit us soon.

 

You might consider some of these to help you, if you are still suffering anxiety and sleepless nights:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

 

Adieu, a demain!

[n1gm4]

Hi everyone,

 

At first, I apologize for my English, french is my first language.

 

I currently take 15 mg remeron, it's been almost 5 years I take it. I tried a couple of times to quit, last year I was more or less 6 months without it.

 

The reason I took remeron at first was because of insomnia caused by either multiple awakening with anxiety and or early awakening and unable to fell asleep again. It is a problem I have since a decade. The reason I'm reaching to you is that I cant explain what's happening when I have this anxiety at night, It is not just a withdrawal symptom, I mean I got this problem before remeron and after 6 months without remeron last year, I could not stand not sleeping like this so I get back on med and starded to sleep more normally.

 

I have seen a psychologist who did help me but not in regard of my insomnia, I have read countless website, books about sleep, anxiety etc. Took gaba, magnesium, oïl fish.

 

It's like I'm caught in a cylcle of insomnia and anxiety. The less I sleep, the more I'm anxious and insomnia is worsening. Doctor diagnose me with generalized anxiety without depression. I had my thyroid tested, no physical problem or health problem. I know I'm a worrier.

 

What I dont understand is why after days or even weeks of bad night with high anxiety wake up, I feel on edge and dont sleep well because of tiredness. Anybody after a bad night or 2 will feel extremely tired and fell asleep anywhere, but not me, I feel more anxious and high on adrenaline. In french we say it's 'contre-nature' which mean if you dont sleep enough one night, you should sleep well the next one. Not me, it is like a cycle of insomnia and anxiety fueling each other.

 

I really try hard last year to quit taking remeron. My psychologist and I try to resolve issue that he thought could provoke this anxiety, like repressed anger or emotion.

 

But Nothing did help with these night anxiety who are hard to describe.It i not a panic Attack but it is a state of high anxiety, like I'm in danger of Something but I have no idea what I fear..... I would like to have any advice or anything you would like to say. Thank you for reading me.

[n1gm4]

Hi everyone,

 

At first, I apologize for my English, french is my first language.

 

I currently take 15 mg remeron, it's been almost 5 years I take it. I tried a couple of times to quit, last year I was more or less 6 months without it.

 

The reason I took remeron at first was because of insomnia caused by either multiple awakening with anxiety and or early awakening and unable to fell asleep again. It is a problem I have since a decade. The reason I'm reaching to you is that I cant explain what's happening when I have this anxiety at night, It is not just a withdrawal symptom, I mean I got this problem before remeron and after 6 months without remeron last year, I could not stand not sleeping like this so I get back on med and starded to sleep more normally.

 

I have seen a psychologist who did help me but not in regard of my insomnia, I have read countless website, books about sleep, anxiety etc. Took gaba, magnesium, oïl fish.

 

It's like I'm caught in a cylcle of insomnia and anxiety. The less I sleep, the more I'm anxious and insomnia is worsening. Doctor diagnose me with generalized anxiety without depression. I had my thyroid tested, no physical problem or health problem. I know I'm a worrier.

 

What I dont understand is why after days or even weeks of bad night with high anxiety wake up, I feel on edge and dont sleep well because of tiredness. Anybody after a bad night or 2 will feel extremely tired and fell asleep anywhere, but not me, I feel more anxious and high on adrenaline. In french we say it's 'contre-nature' which mean if you dont sleep enough one night, you should sleep well the next one. Not me, it is like a cycle of insomnia and anxiety fueling each other.

 

I really try hard last year to quit taking remeron. My psychologist and I try to resolve issue that he thought could provoke this anxiety, like repressed anger or emotion.

 

But Nothing did help with these night anxiety who are hard to describe.It i not a panic Attack but it is a state of high anxiety, like I'm in danger of Something but I have no idea what I fear..... I would like to have any advice or anything you would like to say. Thank you for reading me.

[n1gm4]

Hi Jan Carol, I wish you return to martial arts soon.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi n1gm4, 

 

I was looking through threads about sleep trouble and Mirtazapine, and came across your thread here.  I am sorry that no one responded to your last posts, not at all like SA to leave one hanging. 

 

I am wondering how you are doing now?  Are you still on 15 mg Remeron?  Are you having issues with anxiety at night while on it?

 

I didn't see on your thread how you tapered off last year.  You went 6 months, but that is still a short period where protracted withdrawal is concerned.  I would like to know how you tapered off and from what dose you jumped off.  It is important because we need to learn from your experience.  

 

I do think you were still in withdrawal.  I'm willing to bet the anxiety and sleeplessness you were experiencing were different that your original condition.  For instance, you were saying, when off the Remeron, that you really had little reason to have this anxiety.  That is what withdrawal is like.  The neuro emotions take on Mammoth proportions. 

 

So, please give us an update.  I promise I'll be there for a reply!

 

SG

[n1gm4]

Hello Squirellygirl,

 

Thank you for your reply. I'm doing really good actually. I dont take remeron anymore or any medication. I think the withdrawal was more psychological and related to anxiety than the medication itself, especially when the dose was small. 

 

I have found this website: http://www.anxiety-central.com/

This forum help me so much and I recommend it to anyone suffering anxiety, depression etc.

The book of Claire Weekes 'Hope and help for your nerves' have been a tremendous help aswell and recommend it wholeheartedly.

 

I know I will never take any antidepressant again and glad it is over. 

 

Good luck to everyone.

 

Sincerely

 

BTW my nickname on anxiety-central is 'Pistol Star'. Really hope to see you there. Send me a pm if you join

[Santino]

Hey n1gm4

 

I am very happy for you that you stopped Remeron. IN your last message on March you were saying that you were again taking Remeron at 15Mg level and now in October you are saying that you stopped it already. Did you taper the last time time ore you jumped cold turkey from it buddy..???

 

Is your sleep and anxiety ok now...???

 

All the best