Designgirl732 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Hey everyone! So my husband and I recently started Whole30 - not sure anyone here has heard of it. But it's basically a very strict detox for 30 straight days of no carbs (except from vegetables), alcohol, sugar, or processed food. Which leaves you to be able to eat surprisingly a lot of food but I've been so amazed at how many things have sugar in them. It's only for 30 days and it's to kind of hit the 'reset' button-it's not meant at all for long-term. Anyway, it's day 13 and for the most part I'm feeling really good but towards the end of the day I start to feel like my brain is literally being starved and I start to get bad depressive thoughts and an anxiety attack. My husband feels amazing, high energy, all the things that 'normal' people are supposed to feel on this. So I did some research and apparently there's a big correlation between low carbs causing low serotonin and this diet is probably not good for people who suffer from anxiety and depression! I'm so bummed because i've been doing so well otherwise-the foods are great, i'm not craving anything. Aside from my research I asked my friend who is a health coach and a former paxil user for 5 years and she said that our brains are mostly fat/carbs and we NEED them. And she's right. I eat a sweet potato at dinner and I feel human again-it's incredible! So i'm considering coming off and maybe having oatmeal in the morning. I knew that too much sugar can cause spikes in mood, but I had no idea about the carbohydrates and how much it can really effect you. Anyway, just wanted to offer that advice and my experience. If anyone else has had this, please share. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 6, 2014 Administrator Share Posted May 6, 2014 It's probably not a serotonin issue -- there's a huge amount of serotonin in your gut and if your brain needed some, your body would send some right up there. (The "serotonin deficiency" or "chemical imbalance" theory is invalid in this situation as it is in all others.) Rather, are you eating complex carbs such as oatmeal, legumes, whole grains? Technically these contain carbohydrates, but they do not immediately convert to sugar as simple carbs do. They release nutrients gradually, which helps keep your blood sugar steady. If you have withdrawal syndrome or are in the process of tapering, it's important to keep your blood sugar steady. The body compensates for low blood sugar by releasing adrenaline, which can make withdrawal symptoms worse. Low blood sugar often causes dizziness, weakness, confusion, and lightheadedness. At night, it can cause insomnia (because of the adrenaline). In addition, the dysregulation caused by withdrawal could make you more sensitive to variations in blood sugar. So, if you add some split pea soup, lentils, sweet potato, or whole grain pilaf to your diet, particularly in the evening, you may feel a lot better. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 It's probably not a serotonin issue -- there's a huge amount of serotonin in your gut and if your brain needed some, your body would send some right up there. (The "serotonin deficiency" or "chemical imbalance" theory is invalid in this situation as it is in all others.) Rather, are you eating complex carbs such as oatmeal, legumes, whole grains? Technically these contain carbohydrates, but they do not immediately convert to sugar as simple carbs do. They release nutrients gradually, which helps keep your blood sugar steady. If you have withdrawal syndrome or are in the process of tapering, it's important to keep your blood sugar steady. The body compensates for low blood sugar by releasing adrenaline, which can make withdrawal symptoms worse. Low blood sugar often causes dizziness, weakness, confusion, and lightheadedness. At night, it can cause insomnia (because of the adrenaline). In addition, the dysregulation caused by withdrawal could make you more sensitive to variations in blood sugar. So, if you add some split pea soup, lentils, sweet potato, or whole grain pilaf to your diet, particularly in the evening, you may feel a lot better. "The body compensates for low blood sugar by releasing adrenaline, " I cannot believe I never heard of this! needs a bump so others don't miss it. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Addax Posted May 9, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 9, 2014 Stress can burn up sugar pretty quickly and quickly deplete it. Sugar is a quick source of energy for your body. As a result of depleted sugar in your body you feel trembly, confused, spacey and anxious. This is how I feel about 3 hours after I've eaten too many carbs at breakfast. You feel more anxious and agitated because your adrenal glands release adrenaline and cortisol to prompt your liver to release stored sugar to stabilize your sugar level. The initial reaction to eating a lot of sugar can be a spike in energy and even improved mood, but that spike can lead to a crash in blood sugar, that leaves you feeling tired, depressed, or even irritable. I believe our blood sugar is lowest in the morning, so it may contribute to that early daytime anxiety many of us feel. Coffee probably makes this worse... Eating protein along with or soon after eating a carb can remedy the blood sugar crash. I was told that and it seems to hold true for me. I almost never eat cereal or muffins or pastries for breakfast because I know by 11 am or so my sugar will plummet and I'll feel tired, and cold and nervous. This was true even before my withdrawal. If I do cave into something sugary I try to eat some protein as well or soon after Here's a list I found of symptoms associated with blood sugar levels that drop below normal: This drop upsets your whole system, resulting in symptoms similar to a panic attack: Palpitations Anxiety Light headedness Trembling Unsteadiness or weakness Agitation Blurred vision Panic feelings Chest pain 1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg (with a few stops and starts) Fall 2012: Returned to 40mg after discontinuing and horrid withdrawal Fall 2013: 40mg Fluoxetine, added 150mg Wellbutrin to treat fatigue Winter 2014: Attempting to taper both (too fast) April 2014: 9mg Fluoxetine + 37.5 Wellbutrin Summer 2014: 8 mg Fluoxetine + 0 Wellbutrin (way too fast a drop) Late summer/Early Fall 2014: Debilitating Withdrawal symptoms Fall 2014 - Wellbutrin successfully kicked to the curb but… Oct- Dec 2014: Panicked reinstatement of Fluoxetine ->30mg - held for 5yrs Jan 2021: taper to 20mg Fluoxetine then tapering by 1mg every 2-3 months Fall 2022 - held at 10mg->December 2022: 9mg->Feb 2023: 8mg ->March 2023: brassmonkey slide begins: 7.8mg -> 7.6 -> 7.4->2 week hold (April)->7.2->7mg->6.8->2 week hold->6.6-> 1-month hold ->(June)-6.5->4-week hold-> (July)-6.4 (discontinued brassmonkey slide and slowed taper)-> (Aug)-6.2->(Sept)-6.0->(Oct)-5.9->(Nov)-5.8->(Dec)-5.7->wave!->(Jan)-5.8->(Feb)-6mg and holding. My 2014 withdrawal experience: https://rxisk.org/antidepressant-withdrawal-a-prozac-story/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I had reaction early on to odd things watermelon walnuts..avocado... I would go into a coma like sleep at one point no matter what type of food I ate. It did pass... could not drink coffee at all for 2 years... some very odd and confusing things went on. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 9, 2014 Administrator Share Posted May 9, 2014 It is complex carbs that will keep blood sugar level. Baked goods made from white flour, like muffins or pastries, will not help, and if they contain sugar, will make blood sugar variations worse, as Addax described. Whole grains like oatmeal and quinoa and sunflower seeds are good complex carbs, as are legumes and sweet potatoes. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designgirl732 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 Thanks everyone! I added barley back in and had some oatmeal this morning. I think just knowing I can eat more of a variety made me feel better. I'm not eating any processed sugar or flour. Something about the whole30 was not right for me. I think it's about knowing your own body/mind as well. I was reading about having histamine issues and certain foods are high in histamine than others and a few symptoms are brain fog, anxiety and depression. What's also interesting is that in europe psychiatrists are taking people off their medication by giving them antihistamines-i need to find this reference so you don't think I'm just coming up with this! It is quite amazing how closely what we put into our bodies effects us mentally as well as physically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Thanks everyone! I added barley back in and had some oatmeal this morning. I think just knowing I can eat more of a variety made me feel better. I'm not eating any processed sugar or flour. Something about the whole30 was not right for me. I think it's about knowing your own body/mind as well. I was reading about having histamine issues and certain foods are high in histamine than others and a few symptoms are brain fog, anxiety and depression. What's also interesting is that in europe psychiatrists are taking people off their medication by giving them antihistamines-i need to find this reference so you don't think I'm just coming up with this! It is quite amazing how closely what we put into our bodies effects us mentally as well as physically. antihistamine are the base drug from which ssri drugs were formed.. if you look up the history of the drugs... what do you think antihistamine are they are a drug... I used a very low dose to help me when insomnia was horrid only when I thought I was going to have to go inpatient I would try one third of a pill to help me sleep... after 3 or so days of no sleep I was losing the plot... tho it helped me sleep I felt there was a price to pay for it... a surge in withdrawal symptoms and a set back... our brains have a rebound system.. I think that is the wrong word but can't think of the right one... we throw something that is over reaching back too far when we use drugs... but at times we have to do it to stay out of hosp and keep what is left of sanity and to stay alive. This is NOT the answer people can and do become addicted to antihistamines. If you don't believe me look it up look it all up you will find it. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Back to foods ... some helped... Beets.. raw and cooked.. Lemon and water... warm water or hot if you like keeps my digestion going ...lots of water. veggies about any steamed were good for me bran To this day if I feel real bad I want beets... no idea why. tums.. I know they are not a food soda and water for digestion upset stomach WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 any veggie soup and at one point I craved and had molasses right out of the container.. and a spice... turmeric cinnamon all helpful things that I crave I think our bodies crave what we need. I could be wrong. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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