Nick88 Help Needed: 9 weeks off Pristiq ( Desvenlafaxine)

[Nick88]

Hi Everyone.

I was on 100mg of Pristiq, for over a year, have been on other antidepressants including effexor and mirtazapine in the past.

I am determined to be free of these drugs, however I am not only now experiencing the usual symptoms of depression and anxiety but also a lack of cognitive function; my memory is shot! , lost for words, feel confused and have difficulty concentrating. I'm worried I might crash my car trying to get to work. My stress tolerance is also very low. I'm snapping at friends and coworkers and i can only see things ending badly.

 

Anyone who has experienced similar, or knows of natural remedies that have worked for them would be greatly appreciated. 

I'm being to sleep more and more as I don't want to face the day anymore.

 

Nick 26, Australia

[Fresh]

Hi Nick , welcome to the site.

It does sound like withdrawal syndrome is setting in for you.  Could you provide a little more information?

I'm wondering how quickly you came off the pristiq , and how many years since you first started any antidepressants?

For some , the symptoms of withdrawal can worsen over months , so 9 weeks off is early days.

 

You'll find a lot of information and support here.

Welcome aboard ,  Fresh

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Nick.

 

Are the Pristiq withdrawal symptoms getting better or worse?

 

As a withdrawal symptom, sleeping a lot is not a bad one. Sleep helps restore your nervous system. Usually  people suffer a terrible insomnia as a withdrawal symptom.

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/
 

[clearday]

"Loss for words" seems to be a common side effect/withdrawal effect of Effexor and Pristiq.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8209-outdoorsman15-intro-and-experience-with-effexor-wd/

[mammaP]

Hi Nick, welcome from me too. How long is it since you came off pristiq? Pristiq and effexor are particularly bad for tapering and very few people get off them without suffering withdrawal symptoms.  

 

It will help if you can fill out your drug history in your signature, this will appear at the bottom of your posts and be easily ween without having to go back through the posts.  You can see how to do that here......http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/?view=getnewpost

 

When you stop taking a drug that it takes time for the brain and nervous system to gain homeostasis after being chemically changed, it's like growing a new brain.  Rhianna, one of our mods here wrote a brilliant piece about this here..

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6447-best-of-sa/?p=91582

 

I agree with Alto that sleep is a good thing in withdrawal, the body heals and repairs during sleep.  

 

I hope you are feeling a little better. 

[Nick88]

Thanks everyone for your messages. It brings me comfort  knowing and talking to people who have, or are experiencing the same things.

My symptoms aren't getting worse, they just aren't getting any better. My stress tolerance is also at an all time low. I work as a barista in a very busy cafe, and had to cut my hours from 4 days a week down to 2 because I simply couldn't cope. I use to have a great memory remembering every customers name and order and now I struggle to remember anyones name. I tapered down relatively quickly, down to half a pill (50mg) over about 4 weeks, and from 50mg I went cold turkey. This was the advice given to me by the Psychiatrist. He told me the withdrawal would last about two weeks, which it did. I experienced the 'brain zaps' and headaches, moments of visual and auditory blanks. But i got through that. Its this feeling of being "stupid" that seems to be hanging around.

[Nick88]

This talk of growing a new brain? how long does this take? I am in my second year studying Paramedics and I need my brain to be at its peak. I don't want to go back on medication but if it helps me to study then I might have to consider it, but then I've read about re-instating at that there is a window period in order for it to work? This is all so confusing.

[Altostrata]

For background, see Tips for tapering off Pristiq (desvenlafaxine)

 

As your withdrawal symptoms are not resolving and have interfered with your work, it sounds like you might reinstate a very small amount to let your nervous system accommodate to the drug decrease.

 

Do you have any Pristiq left? If so, you might cut it up take a tiny crumb each day.

 

Alternatively, to be more precise, you might get a prescription for 37.5mg Effexor XR, open the capsule, and take 10 beads per day. Effexor is a close relative of Pristiq.

 

After reinstating, stabilize for a month or so with regular daily dosing, and then very gradually taper off.

[Nick88]

Saw my GP today. He suggests the lack of concentration, memory problems etc.. are symptoms of depression and anxiety.That they are returning now that I don't have the drug in my system. However I was feeling impaired while still on Pristiq, so wondering if i had just built up a resistance to the drug and it was no longer working for me.

He has suggested cardiovascular exercise daily to treat the depression. He by all means does not push drugs. But i already exercise regularly and that does not seem to help.

He also suggested a newer drug called VALDOXAN ( Agomelatine) that uses melatonin rather than serotonin and noradrenaline like Pristiq as it has no sexual side effects and no discontinuation syndrome- two things that concern me greatly. 

 

I am taking my fish oil, magnesium, tyrosine supplements to try and raise my serotonin levels naturally and through exercise. I will continue with this for as long as I can, but if Im struggling to much I might have to give Valdoxan a try. Anyone know anything about this drug ??

[mammaP]

Valdoxan will not help a hot with withdrawal Nick, it is a completely different drug. Exercise will help depression but this is withdrawal, and the only thing to stop withdrawal is the drug you were taking. Your brain has been chemically altered by the drug then it has been yanked away so your brain is now struggling. The drug needs to be 'sneaked away', a tiny bit at a time so that your brain can adjust to the new dose between drops.  As Alto said just a small amount can make a difference and mean you can continue to study and work.  Sadly most doctors don't know about withdrawal and believe as your does, that it is a return of the depression. They are educated by the drug reps, who are of course educated by the drug companies who don't want to admit there is a problem with withdrawal, but want everyone to stay on drugs. Many people reinstate and find relief quite quickly.  Let us know what you decide to do, we are here to support you through this, we are all in this together in varying degrees. 

[Nick88]

When i suggested the idea of effexor, to count the beads inside he said that this is not what they recommend, so i don't think he'd give me a prescription for effexor. 

He also said, like my psychiatrist recommended, that it is safe to come off 50mg of pristiq and that at that dose, it is low enough to come off without any problems. 

Like a lot of people on here, I am now split in three ways….A)  take the advice of my GP, who is medically trained Take the advice from strangers off the internet who are also struggling with depression/anxiety  or C) stay drug free and focus on diet, sleep and exercise. 

 

Pristiq can't be cut, so my only option is to just wait it out. and if I'm still confused and can't study then ill have to try the Voldoxan

[Nick88]

Taking tiny crumbs of pristiq sounds like a very dangerous idea, resulting in further chemical imbalances

[mammaP]

Nick, doctors are not trained in these drugs, they only have what the drug reps tell them. They don't even have the same info as is printed on the drug leaflet that is in packs.  I once pointed out a drug interaction to my cardiologist that was listed on the patient leaflet. He had no knowledge of it.

 

These strangers on the internet have valuable experience,  there are thousands of us here who have had problems, some are completely disabled by these drugs. Their doctors all have no clue what is wrong with them. Altostrata has been studying the effects and withdrawal symptoms of them for many years and is one of the top AD experts in the world. She has interviewed doctors, psychiatrists, pharmacists etc. We also have a topic with a list of doctors who DO understand these drugs.

 

 You should get a copy of Robert Whitaker's Anatomy of an epidemic which is very enlightening. 

 

There are many, many websites that are run by doctors, https://www.rxisk.org/Default.aspx is one.

 

Dr David Healy lectures about the dangers of these drugs http://davidhealy.org/david-healy-bio/

 

Dr Peter Breggin https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breggin.com%2F&ei=xaJIVf_eAYyvaZWHgMgH&usg=AFQjCNEgQVSwHy-fKVdEHY0a5LI-MUL5Fg&bvm=bv.92291466,d.d2s

 

Beyond Meds is a blog by one of our moderators with extensive research  done while suffering terribly for many years, at one point bedridden and unable to even clean her own teeth.  It is referred to by many professionals. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbeyondmeds.com%2F&ei=P6NIVebhJ5Hqaqm6gfAC&usg=AFQjCNG-qua1MBsUTJ_P9c7tZqHxXM2tvw

 

I could go on and on posting links,  but in the end you need to do your own research. This site is by far the best one there is for tapering and withdrawal support. 

If you look here, you will find scientific studies, the papers and research studies, you don't have to simply take our word for it..

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/16-from-journals-and-scientific-sources/

 

I sincerely hope that you do not suffer any more than you are, and that whatever you do works for you. Let us know how it goes. 

[Nick88]

i have one box of 28 tablets of 50mg pristiq. if i cut the tablets into quarters that would give me almost four months of use. how long is usually suggested to reinstate and then taper off again ?

[Fresh]

Hi Nick ,  I'm tapering pristiq , and it's okay to cut them (despite what the packaging info. says).

 

You might start by trying much less than one quarter of a tablet (12.5mg).   As Alto suggests , a crumb , perhaps one or two mg , would be a good place to start.

Hopefully you'll notice some decrease in symptoms within a week.

It takes  4 days to stabilize in your blood steam , so reassess if you need to increase after a week or two.   If you have an immediate adverse reaction , within

24-48 hours , do not take any more.

 

The idea is to allow yourself to stabilize on the lowest possible dose , whilst maintaining your functioning.

Once you've been stable for a couple of months after this recent hiccup , you can taper at 10% every 4 to 6 weeks (approx.) without experiencing disabling

w/d symptoms.

 

The Australian expert on psychiatric medications is Dr Yolande Lucire.  See her thread in "In The Media".  You might want to email her at Lucire@ozemail.com

and seek advice.  Her website is having a make-over so is unavailable for a week or so.   Just say you got her name from this site. 

[ltree74]

Hi Nick,

I am 8 weeks off Pristiq.  I am having the cognitive problems also.  I believe I had commented on a post you put on another site about Pristiq withdrawl.   I didn't recognize the cognitive side of my withdrawl symptoms until I read your post and realized I am having the same issues.  I acutally have been for awhile while still on the medicine.  I would have to stop and try hard to remember something I knew that I knew.  It has gotten worse off of the meds.  I thought it might have been the ambien I take because in order to deal with the insomnia from Pristiq I had to take it every night.  After reading your post, I am guessing it is both.   I currently am in training for some new stuff at work and sometimes have to read over and over and over.  It is really hard to concentrate. 

 

I had decided I did need something to help get me thru the withdrawls and was going to talk to my doctor about going on Prozac maybe to help.  I did some googling before I called her and came across this site.  it has been tremendously helpful in explaining what is going on inside and how I should have tapered differently.  I also firmly believe (through experience) in natural healing and I seen an alternative health doctor that I have seen for a couple years.  He suggested 5-htp 100 mg twice a day for 3 months then decrease to 50 mg after that for 3 months.  It has helped keep the playing field level for me so that my other coping methods work.  I exercise, meditation yoga, and meditation.  I also drink lots of tea and eat the dark chocolate.  Some days are better than others but I have a grip on things and feel like I can make it through.  I also have sleep issues that complicates matters but that's a different story. 

 

I personally do not want to be on the pharmaceutical drugs anymore so I can understand your reluctance to try the new drug.  We all want the same thing.....to be free of drugs.    Good luck!

[Nick88]

Thanks Fresh, I will email Dr Lucire. 

I do feel as though I am stable though. its just the my thinking is impaired. I experienced the shock sensations etc.. for the 2-3 weeks coming off pristiq, but that was it.

How would I go about getting 1-2mg though. It was tricky enough just cutting the pill into a quarter. It is sitting on my bathroom counter, I'm yet to take any just yet.

 

Itree74, what have you decided to do? I also want to take the holistic route. I am planning on getting back into bikram yoga, and I eat well, avoid alcohol and love dark chocolate.

I know about 5 htp, however it isn't offered here in Australia, so I am taking tyrosine which is a precursor for dopamine and am making sure to eat foods that contain tryptophan, such as meat and dairy, which is a precursor for serotonin.

[Fresh]

Yeah , the tiny doses are tricky.  I use a digital scale ($30 from ebay) that measure 0.001 grams and a pill-cutter from the chemist.  If you can picture dividing

a quarter into 12 , it will be about "a crumb" , as Alto suggested.

See "Tips for Tapering off Pristiq" in the tapering section.

 

A fairly common pattern for withdrawal is feeling okay initially , then becoming energised/hypomanic for a period , then crashing badly. 

If you're alright at the moment and things don't get worse , that will be fantastic.   But if things start to change , it's good to know your options.

[ltree74]

Hi Nick,

 

I have decided to not see my GP and try the 5 htp for now.  I am also tapering ambien and using some herbal sleep stuff.  Others on here have suggested I wait until my body is finished with withdrawl off Pristiq but I have not decided to go that route.  I am listening to my body and just taking it easy with the ambien taper.  The herbal stuff is helping with those withdrawl symptoms. 

 

I just really hate the thought of the starting Pristiq again or Prozac and experiencing the woozieness and electric shock feelings all over again.   I just feel like if I can manage what symptoms I have now as they come up then I might be ok and can get thru this craziness. 

 

As for the cognitive delays, I am just being patient with myself and if I have to read/study just making sure it is a quiet area and concentrating really hard.  It helps for me to follow the words with my fingers and reading each word slowly.  I am hoping this phase doesn't last much longer.   I have kind of been living with the cognitive stuff already for awhile (guess it was a side effect before I got off meds) so for me if it does get better it makes me hopeful. 

[Petunia]

Hi Nick,

I was happy to read that you are going to contact Dr. Lucire, most doctors are not able to be very helpful when people want to stop taking antidepressants, their knowledge is limited and often quite inaccurate.

 

Here is a link to a  pristiq tapering success story, this member tapered off Pristiq by cutting up the pills and describes her process:

 

Mogfish: successful taper directly off Pristiq using cutting up method

 

 

...I might have to give Valdoxan a try. Anyone know anything about this drug ??

 

If you start a new drug, you risk making your situation even worse, it seems people have mixed reactions to this drug, I read some reports of it causing sleep problems and increased depression. Reinstating the drug you are suffering withdrawal from is the only known way to reduce those symptoms, then when stable, you can can taper slower.

 

I'm glad you found this site, we are one of the best resources for help with safely getting off these kinds of drugs.

[Altostrata]

Nick, please read Tips for tapering off Pristiq (desvenlafaxine)

 

We have many members who have cut up Pristiq to taper. Use search in the Intro forum to find their topics.

 

Valdoxan is being promoted as not having sexual side effects or withdrawal difficulties. However, reports on Internet forums suggest it's just like all the others and those attractive claims are lies to sell drugs.

[AliG]

 I was on Valdoxan. It's got just as many side effects as the others , if not more. I was told the same thing by my doctor. As "Alto" says, It's all lies and more lies. Please don't fall for it. Educate yourself, using this site and the various links. Read " Whittaker's" book . Knowledge is power.   Good luck.

[Nick88]

Okay, so I am quiet put off the idea of Valdoxan now.

i tried to email Dr Lucrie, however it was rejected to that email address:Lucire@ozemail.com

I have read the tapering advice, I already own some micro digital scales so it would be quiet easy now.

 

I will try a very low dose. 1-2mg for a week to see if I feel any more clarity.

[Fresh]

Oops , so sorry Nick.   Lucire @ozemail.com.au

 

Tweezers are handy too  .

[Nick88]

thanks fresh

[nz11]

"I do feel as though I am stable though." #17

 

Am i missing something here cos i am wondering why you would want to ri if you feel stable.

Or is it felt ri will clear the brain fog and cog impairment ....surely  time will do this not a ri?

 

curious.

 

Like a lot of people on here, I am now split in three ways….A)  take the advice of my GP, who is medically trained   Take the advice from strangers off the internet who are also struggling with depression/anxiety  or C) stay drug free and focus on diet, sleep and exercise. 

Who do you believe people with lots of letters after their names or thousands of people who have the same or similar experience.

I also want to push back on your 'struggling with depression/anxiety' view, i would rather call it 'struggling with ssri wdl' because that is what is occurring caused by brain altering potently addictive chemicals.  

Personally i like your C) choice. 

[ang]

Hi Nick!  Welcome, I live 450km away, in Albany, nice to meet you.!!!!  

 

After my experience with these drugs, I swear the SNRIs are the worst, ie effexor   I assume pristiq would be just as bad, being an SNRI, however  never been on that one.   

 

Take it easy, take it slow......            I hope that if things get worse, you would consider re-introducing the pristiq, and taper very, very slowly..........    

 

When i suggested the idea of effexor, to count the beads inside he said that this is not what they recommend, so i don't think he'd give me a prescription for effexor. 

He also said, like my psychiatrist recommended, that it is safe to come off 50mg of pristiq and that at that dose, it is low enough to come off without any problems. 

Like a lot of people on here, I am now split in three ways….A)  take the advice of my GP, who is medically trained Take the advice from strangers off the internet who are also struggling with depression/anxiety  or C) stay drug free and focus on diet, sleep and exercise. 

 

Pristiq can't be cut, so my only option is to just wait it out. and if I'm still confused and can't study then ill have to try the Voldoxan

 

I used to work  in Pathology, so understand drugs, they all have side effects........    All I know is my GP does not know about these drugs, he can not be a specialist in all areas....  I ask him for scripts, he writes them...    My previous psychiatrist saw me getting worse, and ignored it, ie is the illness not the PILLS.         Well it was the PILLS. I tapered too quickly, I tried to stay drug free, but 5 months walking through hell is too much for me, too late the reinstatement of my previous drug didnt work....

Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say, is I wish I had found this site sooner, I definitely would go with B............  but of course, this site is great in that you are the one to make the decision what to do.

 

As for the newer drugs?  They have no side effects listed, because we are the human guinea pigs, the newer drugs will have the horrific side effects listed as they occur, I got conned that way into taking Zoloft, first in Western Australia to do so.....    it killed my baby..........  my advice?  Go for the oldest drug available, never the newest.

 

Just believe, however bad you feel, you will get better,  whatever path you choose.

[Nick88]

hey nz11. in response to:

Am i missing something here cos i am wondering why you would want to ri if you feel stable.

Or is it felt ri will clear the brain fog and cog impairment ....surely  time will do this not a ri?

 

This is the only reason why I am re-instating, to clear the brain fog and cognitive impairment. I am experiencing no other withdrawals side effects. 

I am hoping that my brain will adjust slowly and just needs to repair. However I have started back on a tiny dose. 1/8th of a pill and see if I see any improvements over the next few weeks. if nothing then I guess ill stay off them.

 

hi ang,

I agree with you that GP'S aren't experts. However he's one of the few people Ive seen face to face. One thing i noticed though is that as soon as I mentioned the word: suicide, or that I'd rather kill myself than deal with the side effects of these drugs again, he suggested Valdoxan. It was as though as soon as they think you are a risk to yourself, that you must be medicated. They are scared, and think these drugs are the only option in keeping you safe.

[nz11]

Nick i am not convinced that is a good reason to ri for.

But maybe someone wiser than me can comment on this one. Believe you me things could be far worse than some brain fog or cog impairment.

 

You are i believe 2 months off and stable then that is a great place to be.

 

you are right in the presence of the doc to  never mention the S word the D word or the A word....you'll trigger a drugging . 

 

Keep us updated.

[Nick88]

yeah maybe re-instating isn't the best idea on my own. I've contacted Dr Yolande Lucire, the forensic psychiatrist. But i need a referral from my gp, and considering her controversial history Im not sure how keen he is going to be in giving me one, but I will ask in two weeks nonetheless. Im also going to stop the re-instatement until I've spoken with her. I just don't think doing this on my own is a safe idea. Its like playing russian roulette with my brain.

[nz11]

"Its like playing russian roulette with my brain. "

 

look i agree i think this is a wise move.

I just listened to YL's video thats posted here. Takes me a while to get the strength to watch these things and i do it with one eye open and one ear closed.

 I think though that these people are aware of the damage these drugs do but in terms of coping with wdl, tapering etc they know no more than what people on this site do and probably a lot less than the moderators here to be honest. imo

In the absence of someone wiser than me...there is no quick fix, magic word or magic bullet to get out of this . If there was this site would have posted it. The instructions for skydiving are being written here ...we are it ...this is the front line...and doctors have gone missing in action!

 

I think the  brain fog will most likely recede in time but you will need to be patient. It may take many many months but as long as you are drug free you will be giving your brain the best of chances to heal without insulting and assaulting it with another pharmaceutical chemical.

And you are stable that is an enviable place to be in. perhaps next week things may be different but that is the nature of wdl. It will pass.

[Nick88]

I am stable and I am being impatient. I will wait it out. I was on the drug for over a year so I can't expect my brain to be back to normal so quickly.

[mammaP]

Sorry NZ11 but I disagree completely. This part of Nick's first post gives the most compelling reason to reinstate and stablilise.

 

, lost for words, feel confused and have difficulty concentrating. I'm worried I might crash my car trying to get to work. 

 

If he is not fit to drive then it is not only his own life to think about but the lives of others also. I have the 'luxury' of not having to drive if I don't feel up to it but having these problems and driving is dangerous. If  reinstating that tiny bit alleviates those symptoms enough to be alert then surely it is safer to do so? 

 

 

"Its like playing russian roulette with my brain. "

 

 

 

I think the  brain fog will most likely recede in time but you will need to be patient. It may take many many months but as long as you are drug free you will be giving your brain the best of chances to heal without insulting and assaulting it with another pharmaceutical chemical.

And you are stable that is an enviable place to be in. perhaps next week things may be different but that is the nature of wdl. It will pass.

[mammaP]

I apologise for my last post. it comes across as argumentative. It is something I struggle with due to chronic insomnia but I have the 'luxury' of deciding when I am fit to drive and stay off the road if I don't feel up to it and can stay home whenever I like. Reinstating a tiny bit can mean the difference between working or not, and also studying. Just reading can be impossible when brain fog is a problem, so studying must be even harder. I don't want to sound forceful or bully you into reinstating, thats not what we are about. Maybe give it a few days to see if it makes a difference, it may not help at all, everyone is different. 

[Fresh]

Hi Nick ,  it might be time to consider a new GP.  

 

MammaP is right about the driving.   If you feel unsafe , it's not socially responsible of you to continue at this time.  The consequence could be devastating.

[Nick88]

I just have to focus more while driving. I can manage it.

Its the studying, and talking to people that I'm struggling with the most. 

I'll give the re-instatement a week or two. I just hope if it doesn't help, that coming off that tiny amount doesn't causes the brain shocks etc.. to occur again.