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  1. Hello Everyone, Let me introduce myself. You can call me Sebas (38), i'm from Amsterdam. Hope my English is okay. I was diagnosed with anxiety issues around 2004 and then started using Seroxat, I believe it's called Paxil in the US. I'm aware by now of all the problems this medicine is causing. In other words, i've read a lot, and i mean A LOT about it. I can almost graduate about the subject After several attempts to stop, I found out in 2015 or 2016 about the 5-10% reduction rule. That helped me from 20 mg (10 ml) tot 12 mg (6 ml) in about 1,5 years (estimated). I'm using the fluid suspension and some squirts for accurate dosage. From 6 ml down to 5,8 took me 5 weeks to feel allright, then i stabilized for a week and went back down from 5,8 tot 5,6. All the usual withdrawal symptoms occur during tapering periods such as illness, nerve system problems, visual, fatigue, stomache cramps and also i'm countering eye circles. Since the last dosage (from 5,8 tot 5,6) i've been feeling bad for 9 weeks already. Especially my stomache and my energy. So i'm now wondering what to do, wait (and wait...), go back to 5,8, go back to 6,0 of try to switch to another AD. Cause this one is really @#$%&* mainly cause of the fast half-life period. I've read about a cross tapering method. I asked my doktor for a psychiatric consult about it. Or...could it be my body (and mind) is telling me this dose is beneath the minimum that i just need for my personal wellbeing. I'm familiair with magnesium, omega 3/fish oil and multi vitamin for support. I'm looking forward fto exchanging some knowledge. Bye Sebas
  2. Hello, I have been on paroxetine for 7 years,have tried many times to go off but unsuccessfully. Finally on 7 th year i lowered my dose from 20 mg to 10 mg. After panic attacked and insomnia appeared on my trip few months later I took 20 mg while I was on a trip and lowered it again on 10 mg.Due to some medical conditions that I suspected that are cause of paroxetine,I lowered the dose to 0 in maybe two months,way too fast. I was okeish for about two months ( I had all of the symptoms of wd but I fought with it ) and I compelety crushed this February . Tinitus and never ending insomnia are the worse. I started to Google and found all the posts about some neurological damage From this drug which made my anxiety worse. Doctor gave me lorazepam to sleep. My question is ,should I go back to 10 mg and taper more slowly? Am I in a risk of neurological damage From tapering too fast ? Is this tinitus permanent? How long wd simptoms approximately last ? I see I am in risk of developing tolerance to lorazepam since I have been using it two weeks for sleep. My doctor's don't know anything since one wants to put me on mirtazapine and other on Prozac. I am so worried and feeling alone in all this.
  3. Hi! I use to post occasionally on Paxil Progress under Basil but took a step away in the mist of withdrawal and confusion. I only found out recently the site had gone. I'm not sure what help I can get here but I though I would share this long story and to get it off my chest/help myself in some way. I'm from the UK near Manchester and currently on 25mg of Pregablin/Lyrica. I also take 50mg mirabegron to try calm my bladder but that doesn't seem to do anything. I'll share my story first and how I got to this point but firstly I have so much empathy for people here and others going through this. It has been one of the most cruel and crazy journeys which it seems mostly only people who have experienced it, believe.... Male 36 Good career one child Single MENTAL Current Symptoms: Depression, lack of motivation, no drive or focus This has come on over the last couple of years to where I feel dead inside now Fatigue and brain fog I've had bouts of this in my life but this has been constant for a year now. Sometimes I can't work with it. Frequent urination, genital sensations, pain Major problem the last 18 months and probably made the depression worse. Touch wood I now have days where I'm nearly fine and haven't had pain in nearly a year. Had nearly every medical test going and nothing can be found apart from a small bladder which I doubt is the problem as I would have always had this. I also have the sensation when nothing is in my bladder. Anxiety I've always been this way, not the withdrawal anxiety at the moment (fingers crossed) Story (warning, very long) April 2007 I've always been highly strung and critical but after pushing myself with my final year Uni artwork I developed Repetitive strain injury in my hand which spread to both arms. Nothing structurally wrong was found and I freaked out that my career was over before it started. I was anxious and feeling down, my ex advised I get something to help as she was out of ideas how to help. My doctor had suggested CBT and put me on the list, an emergency doctor after suggested PAXIL/SEROXAT/paroxetine 20MG. If only I knew now how trivial at the time that anxiety and low mood was! August 2007 Paroxetine 20mg, felt it straight away and within one week my mood was up. Arm pain was easier to deal with, started eating again, playing games and doing stuff within a month. I went from an anxious mess to drinking lots, over eating, smoking, occasional drug use, sleeping most of the day, annoying my ex but I felt great. I went form 11.5 stone up to 14, I sweated a lot, sexual dysfunction but indulging in stuff felt amazing. August 2008 Weight gain was starting to annoy me and I had realised my behavior had changed with the medication. At this point I was having periods of no arm pains. I had started missing doses, temporary GP told me to just stop cold turkey. No problems until 3 month later when the arm pains came back full force. December 2008 Arms pains were becoming a major problem so a GP put me back on Paroxetine 20mg. Worked fast and pulled me out of a hole quickly, found a new job and all the naughty behavior came with the meds again. August 2009 I started reducing the medication, I can't remember but it was rapid with no obstruction from the GP. Some brain zaps and strange symptoms but nothing that bad. November 2009 I had noticed through the last 3 months I was highly tense and irritable then the arm pains came back. I was so distraught I couldn't get rid of them without paroxetine. My ex suggested I try St john's wort which did nothing after a few weeks. I stupidly went to the GP on the Friday after stopping the St john's wort on the Thursday and asked for to go back to Paroxetine without telling her I was on the herbal remedy recently. I thought before was bad but now I was entering hell. After 2 days back on Paroxetine I woke up to a panic attack in the night and uncontrollable agitation, felt like my mind had exploded. I couldn't sleep, eat, sit still, stay safe. I had such strong suicidal feelings but no one would believe how I felt. I walked the streets at night sweating, pacing, heart pounding waiting for the doctors to open. I explained at the Emergency room what had happened but the Doctors did nothing. I was obsessed with serotonin syndrome due to st johns wort being taken few days before Paroxetine. I phone the crisis team and they gave me diazepam 2-4mg to take as needed and zopiclone 3.75mg to get me to sleep. They put me to sleep but after 1 hour I was awake again. I was then switched from Paroxetine to 20mg of Citalopram which increased the problems ten fold. I admitted myself to a ward as I couldn't take it anymore. In the ward I was given Clonazepam, zopiclone and the citalopram. I calmed down and slept for the first time in a weeks. I thought things were better but it would appear it was just the clonazepam covering up the issues. I decided to checkout as I spent most of my time playing pool with the young nurses and felt pretty good. When I got home I realised the clonazepam was so addictive after some research so I stopped it. I went back into hell. At this point I was off sick from my dream job I had got 6 months earlier, lost my flat, split from my partner, living back at my mums. Then I also found we had conceived a child in the middle of this madness. Christmas 2009 I saw an emergency Pysch Doctor and she removed me from all medication over a week. Thankfully it lowered all the mental and physical symptoms some what but the my arm pains were on fire and I was very low in mood. January 2010 I was attending a day clinic and the medical practitioners would not listen to my story. Paroxetine had worked before so I was convinced to try again after no luck with propranolol and buspar. Started at 5mg and worked up to 20mg. I wanted to kill myself, I had visions of sticking a blade into my stomach but I pushed through with the symptoms. February 2010 By the end of February I suddenly had a pleasant thought. The paroxetine kicked in big time and I was back to feeling good with all the usual side effects. I did some horrible things over the next few months including taking a drug on my birthday (MDMA). One week after I slipped into some horrible extreme anxious/agitated state which last 2 weeks. April 2010 - August 2010 Within this time I started having the waves of extreme periods of symptoms to then very high mood. Akathesia Extreme anxiety depression Not eating or sleeping Each wave got shorter and good periods got longer. My son was born end of August and my experience I realised I could not mess about anymore. March 2011 I joined Paxil progress and started connecting some dots. Yes I had taken illegal drugs on a few occasions but I saw my symptoms with the Paroxetine in other people's stories. At this time I was still having occasional days of extreme agitation and anxiety. A night out drinking could trigger this off sometimes. I was nearly 16 stone and couldn't care less about things. I decided it was time to taper off. August to November 2011 I had two major waves while tapering, both lasted 2 weeks. November 2012 I had tapered down to 1.25mg with not too many problems. After feeling slightly out of sorts for a week one lunch time the extreme anxiety suddenly turned on and I went into a major crash. December 2012 Crisis team Severe akathesia/anxiety Suicidal ideation Nausea So many symptoms but no arm pains. I updosed to 5mg Paroxetine with no relief. Pysch doctor/mental health team would not listen to the theory of severe withdrawal from Anti depressants. I was diagnosed with severe GAD and told I need to take Pregablin and stop the Paroxetine. I did not want to add anything else and held on till end of January. Tried Propanonol again which did nothing and took occasional Benzos (once a week for a break) Jan 2013 I stopped going to Paxil progress as it made me more anxious. I was being discharged by the crisis team as I refused to take Pregablin. I was suicidal and my body was on fire but I was freezing. I would spend most mornings in despair with my body jerking and pacing with the akathesia and extreme anxiety. I sometimes would feel normal in the evenings. My family was lost what to do and upset. I had been off work 2 months, not seen my son. I had also managed to get an appointment with Dr Healy in Wales but had to wait till April. I decided to take the Lyrica end of Jan. February 2013 The Lyrica had no start up effects for me and I hate saying it did help somewhat. It gave me a window (I think it was that) I was able to get back to work by March. 2 x 150mg Lyrica a day and 5mg Paroxetine. I decided this was my fate for now. I started the pattern of waves and windows, the waves were very intense but I worked through them. April 2013 I saw Dr Healy and he listened. He asked my what I wanted him to do for me and I wasn't sure. He did back up my story and it's on my file. He expressed concern about the Lyrica as the new drug everyone was getting prescribed and to come off it. I tried with his withdrawal plan but I was just too scared with the waves to alter anything. He suggested to stay on the Lyrica and come off the paroxetine when ready. Everything seemed a bit hopeless but I had to keep pushing through these waves which were getting shorter luckily. March 2015 Life had been better and I had done stuff I thought I'd never do. I had been very successful at work. I had a couple of major waves and had tried to get off Lyrica once more but a big wave took me back on it. I decided I would taper off the paroxetine finally. I had to fight with the GP to prescribe me liquid paroxetine. Some GP's had now started confirming the withdrawal of Paroxetine to me and my clinic had stopped prescribing it. February 2016 Tapering using liquid was going fine apart from lack of enjoyment and mood dropping. I then experienced a period of frequent urination which my GP couldn't find a reason. It disappeared... and came back on occasion. I was still on 2x150mg Lyrica/ April 2016 I woke up with tinnitus white noise in one ear randomly and still have it. Nothing could be found to be the cause. April 2017 I finish my paroxetine taper with no problems but at the same time a relationship breaks down and I feel very emotional. This person had helped me through a lot since 2013 and I missed her dearly. I chose to have no more children after this experience so we split. August 2017 With usual perfect timing over just 3 month the withdrawal anxiety started with the akathesia to follow. I was still dealing with the breakdown of my relationship at the same time, life went to sh*t. Very depressed at the same time. Next five months involved in waves: Extreme anxiety Akathesia Depression Nausea Diarrhea Freezing chills GP's would constantly say I need Sertraline, everyone wanted to prescribe me this drug. A GP wrote to a psych doc as I wasn't ill enough to be seen apparently. I don't know why I let them as I knew no one could help but prescribe drugs. Mitrzapine and Promazine was prescribed. I got the prescription but never took them thank god. December 2017 Just before Christmas the wave ended and hasn't come back. January 2018 I was so happy I was now 3-4 weeks of a good window. Finally my mood was up and I started living again, still on 300mg Lyrica a day. This was cut short after going to the toilet one day and then urgently needing it again. What followed has pushed me as far as the akathesia and anxiety to nearly ending my life. I never knew needing to urinate could be so torturous. I saw my now regular GP and he prescribed all kinds of medications to try control my frequent urination but nothing worked. By the third week I was experiencing pain in my bladder and strange sensations in my genitals. My life was now even more restricted than before, I 24/7 needed to urinate regardless if I had anything in my bladder. My GP had suspected Lyrica as the culprit but I wasn't ready for rocking that boat yet. August 2018 I had every test done with no problems being found in urology, I managed to get the pain to subside to an acceptable level with stretching. I now started to experience severe fatigue and brain fog, luckily I was off work for the last 4 month but had to go back. December 2018 Fatigue, brain fog, depression increased, frequent urination. Occasional better day of less urinating but life seems pretty hopeless with this never ending nightmare. The sensations in my genitals are unbearable as well and it now seems that anti depressants are the treatment to stop me urinating and for the fatigue haha! January 2019 My refusal to take anti depressants my GP suggests the Lyrica being the problem with urological symptoms. He suggests 1/2 the dose to see if it improves as I'm in such a state. Strangely it seems to work but in waves and windows again with stress seeming to set it off immediately. Today So here I am at 25mg of Lyrica, my urinating seems to go up and down. Just when I feel it might be gone it comes back for a few days intensely. I've not had the strange genital symptoms in months thankfully. I have the worst brain fog and fatigue which occasionally lessens. I'm depressed which I think is due to how long this stuff has been going on. My life is very restricted but I've tried to break free and chose to always push myself even with the symptoms. I mean someone suggested a holiday so I went to South Africa which was absolute hell with the urinating but I still did it. I really want to break free of this and finally enjoy life again. I sometimes fear my brain is permanently broken after this, I've not felt happiness and enjoyment in so long. I'm hoping the Lyrica is the cause of the Fatigue/brain fog/frequent urination and things will get better once I'm off. I didn't follow a 10% taper of Lyrica as I'm desperate to get relief from urinating which seems to improved with the reduction. I've only experienced some withdrawal from 50mg to 25mg with even more fatigue and zombie like state. Jan: 75mg 2 x a day Feb: 75mg a day April: 25mg 2 x a day July: 25mg a day I'm not even sure what I'm asking but I thought I'd share this very long story, good to actually get it all down. Hopefully this story will come to end soon. It seems crazy to go on a medication for low level anxiety/low mood due to essentially stress and go through this! Boris x
  4. Hello I am a French girl looking for some help. I have been under medication since I was 15. I had : - Bromazepam - Prazepam - Paroxetine I managed To give up on benzodiazepines by following the rules of Heather Ashton. I live without benzodiazepines since june 2017. I tried To give up on 20mg of Paroxetine in 2017 : too fast (in 3 months). Then I tried a second time in 2018 : 5% every 30 days. But after one month, I went through hell. I tried a third time in 2018 : 3% every 21 days, then 20 days, 19,...16 days. I sas Well during a year, full of hope!!! But last August the 22th, I went back To 10mg ( I was then at 8.41 mg) Since I'm in hell. Now I wonder : can I hope To be better one day ? I hope my English is not too bad.. Have à great day Erell
  5. Hello, I am new here. I really appreciate everyone posting their stories, struggles or successes. It helps me understands what I have been through WAY better. I was on paroxetine(20 mg) for 11 years for social anxiety. I was told by my psychiatrist that it would be "a vitamin I take for the rest of my life". Little did I know it would rob me off all my emotions in life. Over the last 11 years I have had a decent amount of "we dont know why this happens" health conditions. I now look back and blame alot of it on this drug. Since coming off of this drug my health conditions have improved, but some of the withdrawal symptoms kick my butt here and there. Reading the success stories, I know these will get better with time. So I am keeping my nutrition dialed in and my attitude positive. Thanks!
  6. Hi there, I'm new to this site but need help! Have had 15 years of AD use, which include a couple of changes due to 'poop outs'. My last change was 9 weeks ago when the 15mg paroxetine that I'd been on for 7 years pooped out. Ended up under crisis team and physchiatrist switched me to 15mg Mirtazapine (straight switch from one day to the next). I had done a similar switch back in 2007 when my lexapro pooped out (tapered down over 2 weeks then switched straight over to the paroxetine). Over the last 6 weeks on Mirtazapine, the physchiatrist titrated me up to 45mg as I was in a bad state. 45mg WAY too high for me and caused akathisia, so he dropped me back to 30mg (after 3 weeks on 45mg). Akathisia better, but still lingering, so he wants to drop me down to 22.5mg. What do I do... I need this akathisia to stop ASAP, so a drawn out taper seems like far too long to wait! But I'm sure my body is in crisis from the med switch and titrating up then quick drop back down. Also used benzos over 4 weeks during switch, and titrated off them. Am I better to put up with the akathisia and do a slow taper? He thinks that drop percentage is fine (25%), but after reading this site combined with the weird experiences I'm having I'm too scared (so I'll need to enlist the help of a chemical compounding pharmacy) . Am I better to do that drop (25%) to stop the akathisia quickly, or just let my body settle down? Do 10% in another 2 weeks time (so that will be 4 weeks after my drop from 45mg to 30mg). I don't know what to do... I have been under the care of the crisis team and been going along with the plan, but can't help but feel these side effects are worse than having no treatment! I'm only 43 with a beautiful husband and son, but I'm scared that I've screwed my poor body up for life. I need advice, and stories of hope (and of easy withdrawls, not just horror stories, to give me hope). P. S Could my akathisia actually be paroxetine withdrawls even though I went straight onto another med?
  7. Hello everybody, first excuse for the english I'm from Germany but hope that everything is understandable. Also sorry that the story is a little longer. I am male 41 years old. In 2003, my doctor prescribed Paroxetine (Paxil) for me. Diagnosis depression. Today I do not believe it anymore. One year later I tried to abruptly stop what went wrong of course, as I approached my doctor he said I should just take it all my life. I thought maybe I was sick and so took the stuff like many others. I have not thought about it for a long time and kept taking it, mostly 20mg some time also 40mg. but the last few years 20mg. Over the years, I had more and more stomach problems, everything was clarified and found nothing in recent years, the stomach problems were getting worse so I weighed only about 60kg at 1.85m height and I finally came to the fact that it must be the paroxetine. So I informed myself on the internet (unfortunately not thoroughly enough) and reduced the paroxetine from August to December 2018 in 4 week intervals 20mg, 10mg, 7,5mg, 5mg, 2,5mg all about without scales. that works good I had in between brainzaps and my stomach problems were not better but otherwise almost no problems. I took my last 2.5mg pill one week before Christmas 2018. About 2 weeks later I could not sleep in some nights, I thought that was over. In the middle of January I could not sleep at all and there was a lot of dizziness. I briefly took zolpidem for a total of maybe 5-7 tablets over two to three weeks. I was only able to sleep for 2-3 hours with zolpidem. Then I researched further and found the German forum they advised me to try again dosing that I did it after 7 weeks. Only 0.25mg then 0.5mg, etc. the dizziness disappeared but the insomnia remained. Then I stupidly continued high doses Gradually to 5mg but the insomnia has remained. then I went to a clinic that increased the paroxetine to 10mg and only prescribed trimipramim 25mg from which I was able to sleep a little bit and then switched to Dominal 40mg after 4 weeks. My sleep did not get much better and it became more and more scary until today. I stayed for 4.5 months on 10mg Paroxetine and 40mg Dominal which I temporarily increased to 60mg in the meantime but also brought no success. In the meantime, I have reduced paroxetine again, my current medication is 8.5mg Paroxetine in the morning and 45mg Dominal in the evening. I am absolutely terrible for 12 months and cannot work. It's changing all the time, but it's still terrible. Although I have physical symptoms such as shaking, freezing, transpire, sore muscles, internal vibration, moving like a robot etc. but the mental are the worst and I do not know how long I can stand it. meanwhile I can sleep mostly 3-6 hours at night it is a bad easy sleep and feels totally different in the old days. I hardly ever have windows, sometimes I feel 50% like in the past. The worst of all is the fear she comes in the morning from 5 o'clock and then increases in the immeasurable I can barely breathe, before 12 o´clock sometimes has to go to the toilet 7 times (in German we say for the big job) but not because of the stomach but out of fear. I curl up in fear and can barely stand upright. it is a feeling to be crushed. and to go crazy. I have to cry in despair because I cannot stand it anymore. I've read a lot about the morning cortisol boost. but in my case, it actually has to be more that feeling and that fear often lasts until the evening and is indescribable. The second thing that worried me a lot and where I have not read in any form is that I have absolutely no peace as soon as I am awake I have no peace anymore I can barely sit, let alone rest or relax my body is always on full power a continuous flight or fight mode without a break for 11 months. and the worst thing ever is sometimes I'm so exhausted that I can barely move then I'm sitting somewhere and then something hard to explain. I fall like in a trance my eyes fall to it the body they go back I sometimes see pictures half open eyes closed like daydreams I often did not know have eyes closed or were they open. 1 second later I do not remember the picture and I see again with my eyes open. I ´ve also have that for 11 Month. and my biggest justified fear is that I'll never get rid of it and get stuck in a Daydream or psychosis. When I consciously close my eyes during the day, my stomach immediately contracts and I get scared. I have read a lot and also posted in the German forum. So now I know a lot about these devil stuff and about cortisol, histamine and also the paroxetine which is probably the worst ssri. Meanwhile, I have a theory why I am in a state of emergency. Of course, when I reduced last year, I was way too fast and my nervous system has gone into the absolute alarm mode. then I dosed in much too late and went up too far again. meanwhile I do not tolerate the Paroxetine anymore and it does not work anymore so I'm still hanging in the withdrawal last year. In addition, I probably have many side effects due to intolerance my body actually does not want the paroxetine anymore. if I reduce now come the next withdrawal symptoms of one and the same drug. and the Dominal does not really help me, at least I do not notice any tiredness even an hour after taking it. my nervous system is just too irritated. I read a part of the story of altostrata at the beginning of the German forum and was shocked since then I cannot get it out of my head and I think what if you feel the same way. Paroxetine and insomnia it's the same thing. It has been a daily struggle for survival for a very long time without being able to find peace or relax. My brain is working 24 hours a day. As soon as I try to find peace and quiet during the day, I get scared as if the mind wants to point me to danger. I often describe the condition as if the mind is separate from the body. I feel this often in exhaustion my body wants to rest and relax but the mind does not allow it. actually I know that there is only one way no doctor in the world and no one else can help me there is only one way I have to get rid of the paroxetine and this is probably only with slow reduce. although I feel so bad and it is a daily struggle for survival. I still have few questions and although can I do anything to make my situation bearable its on the edge of ability to live. If necessary, I take 0.5mg Tavor but only every few weeks and it almost does not work. I have many symptoms but the fear of going crazy and sleep is the worst. So, is this the right way to continue stubbornly every 4-6 weeks to reduce 5% -10%, or do I have to continue pausing to try to achieve stability, but i think i can´t reach that? the second question is I have read in some other threats that Altostrata recommends changing from about 5mg paroxetine to prozac. I never heard that. I was thinking of not taking any other SSRI. so I could write much more but now I come to the end and thank you in advance !! Kind regards Arti
  8. Hi, in march I decided to go to a shrink after dealing with depression/anhedonia for a couple months. I was put on paroxetine 30mg and olanzapine 2.5mg. During my last visit with my previous doctor I told her I still had anhedonia, to which she replied: "let's increase the olanzapine to 5mg, you'll sleep better". I told her: "I dont think blocking my dopamine receptor further will resolve my anhedonia". Anyways, I decided to find another doctor who told me I could just cold turkey the current 2.5mg because I don't need it. I also started venlafaxine 75mg to see if it alleviates my anhedonia. Any advice regarding the olanzapine? Thanks in advance for the replies, and sorry if my post is not very organized, I am not very good at writing.
  9. manymoretodays

    Venkat: tapering olanzepine

    Hi Venkat! And thank you hayduke for being such a champ tapering buddy and support for Venkat! Could you, Venkat, clarify a bit more via your signature? This link will take you to it again: AccountSettings/signature update I'm seeing this months medications but nothing from before. More about what we like to see here: Please put your withdrawal history in your signature Example: 2001–2002 paroxetine 2003 citalopram 2004 paroxetine 2008 paroxetine slow taper down to 2016 Aug off paroxetine 2016 citalopram May 20mg Oct slow taper down 2018 citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg Make sure and hit the SAVE button when you are done. And then what are you taking now, and when? Keeping daily notes Look at the link. And this is really not as hard as it seems, at first to do. If for starters you just want to list the times on the left, and then your 3 medications/drugs by name, and dose on the right, that would be helpful for us to see. Then go on and try one with symptoms on the right as well, as they occur throughout the day, include sleep, and any supplements taken. And post a whole 24 hours here too. 1st march 2020 ;Tab olanzepine 6.5mg ; Tab sodium valproate 1500mg ; Tab valium 5mg (taken from your present signature) And......my final request, but a important one! Could you do a Drug Interaction Report? You just go to Drugs.com, and fill in with your drugs. And then you could link us to it, and/or copy and paste it here on your introduction page. And okay, thank you in advance. Best, L, P, H, and G, mmt
  10. Hi Soggy! 🙂 I'm looking at You Paxil history: 2019-5-2 Started Paroxetine 30mg, 2019-10-1 paroxetine still 30mg 2019-10-17 paroxetine still 30mg 2019-10-22 paroxetine 0mg, So it seems you took 30 mgsof Paxil from 5/2/19 to 10/17/19, and then was finished taking it 5 days later by 10/22/19, is that correct? Just over 5 month ago since You Cold Turkey'd? If so, did You notice any emotional outbursts, crying, etc. Along with any of the head shocks or "Paxil Flu"symptoms, like aches and pains? Interested in how Your managing any Paxil issues. Thanks! 😎
  11. Colonial

    Melissa03: Paroxetine wd

    Hi Melissa! 🙂 Can you say why You believe these symptoms to be the result of the reinstatement being too high and not just the temporary WD? I know it took me a good 6 weeks before I started to stabilize once I stopped dropping my dosages. Are you aware the 2 weeks of the Lorazapam this month could very well be the reason your not doing well, and not the Paxil? Your signature shows a lot of med changes recently: Few attempts to quit during 7 years March 2019 went from 20 mg to 10 mg ( managed symptoms for 3 months ,crushed on trip and returned to 20 mg while on trip) Went again on 10 mg after trip In September 2019 again on 20 for few weeks For suspecting my health symptoms I had for a long time Are cause of paroxetine, lowered to 0 in two months or less November 2019 And if says that the reason You Cold Turkey'd was of "health symptoms", which may have been WD issues from the drop from 20 to 10 in March, etc. My other concern is you have made posts like this one: I think what happened is you accidentally scared Yourself into thinking that the WD Symptoms you have had this year from changing your dosages around... Were actually the medication injuring Your health for being on them to begin with, but then You said "If I stabilize doubt I will ever taper". You then panicked into cold turkeying, and now have reinstated and added 2 weeks of Benzo use as well. But again, part of the issue is your signature is too vague so we can't see when you actually made changes: Went again on 10 mg after trip In September 2019 again on 20 for few weeks For suspecting my health symptoms I had for a long time Are cause of paroxetine, lowered to 0 in two months or less November 2019 2020 March 4th, Lorazepam x 2 weeks Can You Please put in your signature line the actual dates as best you can remember them for: 1. "went on 10 mg again after trip" 2. When in Sept. did you go to 20 mgs for "a few weeks" 3. When did you start dropping from 20 to 0, to end up at 0? And how long were you at each dose along the way? 4. What day in November was your last dose? 5. What was your dose of Lorazapam for 2 weeks starting March 4th and how often did you take it? If you only answer it here, it's not as helpful, because every time someone tries to look at your history, its very time consuming to try to scroll back through your thread. So that is why it would be great if you could make the changes in your signature line. Again, I'm not seeing anything to indicate the 10mgs was too high per se. I see not enough time yet to stabilize added to the benzo use that, if your having WD from that, is why You may not be doing well. If there is some other reason, medically, you believe the 10 mgs is too high, please let us know, and update the signature line will be a big help. Thanks!
  12. Hi everybody, I'm sorry for my poor english but i speak french ( from belgium). I come here for need help, because paroxetine (seroxat here) kill my life... my story: since 2013 many stress and i stop with a girl friend very bad. in same time I was studyingfor to be a nurse ( so its many stress..). I started to be very bad about myself (depressed all time). Month after month its became worse and worse. one day a groupe of pople from my class have decided to harass me because i was bad... the hell started. i start paroxetine 20 mg from december 2016 to ( i think) september 2017. i feel bad until 8 weeks and after that its more easy to speak in front of people. but i fell already anxious, stressed ( not the same stress/anxiety from before) , i decided to decreases at 10mg one day. and i stay with this 6 month perhaps less. after this i decided to take paroxetine a day and not the other i m already fell bad anxious ++ , little depressed. for me i start to be a real anxiety social and the paroxetine dont help me (its maybe worse with this ?) i dont understant what its happened, and i take 5 mg one day all 3 days( decembre 2018) i remember i have a reunion and i have a panick attack in front of all colleage... since i stopped to work over there. and i take paroxetine since december 2018 to september 2019 (10 mg)... its better yes... but too anxious ( my life is now very poor) i work yes but talk to someone ( telephone,etc) fell me so bad... (extrem anxiety beacause im feel to nervous) i decided to see a dr (psy) for stop paroxetine. he say stop paroxetine from 10mg to 8 mg... i say ok but after one week i feel a little better juste like a mini rainbow in my life. and after two weeks all senses go crazy (depressed +++++ crying, anxious ++++ ) all is too for me.. after this he say wo start to 5 mg( i say no please its too for me) and i start at 7 mg( after 3 weeks its worse and i decided to stop that) actually i return to paroxetine 10 mg since 5 days (27/12/19) because some peoples say to me to return from 10 mg and they say to me stop to take paroxetine the night and start morning (i take too omega 3 2000mg and metarelax(magnesium/vitB /taurine) since 2 weeks) please help me you are my only hope ( just like star wars lol) sorry for my english ps: i dont have paroxetine syrup ps2: with all this **** i finish to have my nurse diploma (june 2018) and i start to work (july 2018) so its never the good moment for start thewithdrawal, but today...i am ready!
  13. Hi! I will keep this post pretty plain for now, as my WD symptoms (the pains, mainly) make it hard to even use a computer for long. I will also try to make a short "signature" version of my history later today. When I was signing up, I was asked to provide a history of my case. I'm gonna paste it below. So, here goes. ---------------------------------------- All of the following changes/switches were done in 1-2 weeks each (except where otherwise noted). I.e., very quickly (which is bad). - Started Amisulpride 600mg and Escitalopram 30mg in 2014 for OCD. - In 2017 Amisulpride dose became 500mg. A few months after that, I developed tardive dystonia (cervical). - In 2018 autumn switched from Amisulpride to Abilify (about 15mg), to combat the dystonia. Indeed the movements stopped, but I was very sleepy (was taking lots of baclofen too). So I moved back to Amisulpride 500mg. - In 2019 february made another attempt at switching to Abilify (22.5mg). It was successful. But since then, I gradually developed disabling joint pain. - In 2019 (around July) reduced Abilify to 15mg, and nothing much changed. - In 2019 September switched from Escitalopram to Paroxetine (40mg) to combat the joint pain. Got a slight improvement in joint pain. Since the first day of Paroxetine, I began having eye problems. - About 3-4 weeks later I reduced Paroxetine to 20mg and Abilify to 7.5mg. Nothing much changed. - About a week later, I reduced Paroxetine to 15mg and Abilify to 3.75mg. Finally the joint pain was almost gone. - Soon, the joint pain reappeared so I started taking 4x3.75mg Abilify and since then, my joint pain is quite minor. - About 3-4 weeks later I switched (Cold Turkey) back from Paroxetine to Escitalopram (7.5mg) to combat the eye problems. That did not help, and I started getting disabling muscle cramps (in quadriceps). Then I found the "paroxetine withdrawal support" FB group. - About 4 days later, I switched (Cold Turkey) back from Escitalopram to Paroxetine (15mg), because of the cramps and because of what I learned from the FB group. - That didn't reduce the cramps. So I increased Paroxetine back to 20mg, which did help somewhat. - 1-2 weeks later, we're at the present moment (24 Dec 2019). ---------------------------------------- I'll be happy to communicate with you guys in order to help one another in this journey! In Facebook I'm actually afraid to help other people, because Facebook is too addictive with the "likes" and "loves" etc. Especially for lonely people like me. I hope this forum will be different in this regard!
  14. Moderator note: link to benzo forum thread - Miko789: Xanax withdrawal/tapering Hi, I'm new to the forum, I have some questions I want to ask. My doctor prescribed effexor for depression, in 2009. Now I'm free of symptoms and I managed to come off with withdrawal symptoms though. That's with the antidepressant. Now I'm on Risperdal consta from November 2013 and seroxat 10mg. My doctor prescribed with risperdal consta 3,3mg/day long acting injection every two weeks. From February 2015 he lowered the dosage to 25mg/every 2 weeks equals 1,66mg/day. I tried to lower the seroxat 10mg but after 40-45h I have withdrawal symptoms vertigo, dizziness. Is it possible to cut down seroxat? How about the Risperdal consta (long acting injection). Has anyone tapered off completely without withdrawals? I read about the 10% harm reduction procedure to taper off and I'm going to tell my doctor and follow. thanks in advance
  15. I've been taking 20mg of paroxetine for more years than I can remember...I would like to taper off and would like to make a list of supplements that will help with serotonin production. The only supplement on my list are B complex vitamins. Has anyone tried 'Genius Joy - Serotonin Mood Booster'? I plan on reducing 10% every month or 6 weeks depending on how I feel. Exercising and eating well. Does anyone have any other suggestions? The main reason I want to go off of the drug is the relationship of pharmaceuticals to dementia. Any thoughts on that topic? Thank you for any information. I feel like I'm about to climb a mountain.
  16. CyclistN

    CyclistN: New here

    Hi, I'm new here. My withdrawal from Paroxetine started early December 2019, after a Dr decided to transition me from Paroxetine to Citalopram. I had been on Paroxetine for 20 years. About 4 years ago, when I was on 50mg of Paroxetine, I decided to reduce to 10mg. I was sick of the dry mouth, numb fury feeling and being depressed. I did it on my own and it took me about 6 months and I did feel sort of better. The Dr who decided Citalopram would be better, so prescribed a 2 week transition. Week 1, Citalopram 10mg with Paroxetine 10mg. Week 2, just Citalopram 10mg. Three days later I had my first life panic attack along with severe symptoms of tingling numbing headaches, aches all over, in quenchable thirst, excessive urination, unable to walk, short on breath. I was admitted to hospital where a Psychiatrist told me I had discontinuation syndrome from Paroxetine. Restarted me on 10mg Paroxetine, felt better in a couple of hours. Also recommended a 4 week taper of Paroxetine to be prepared by a compounding pharmacy. A few days later, after being transferred to a half way like house, another Psychiatrist recommended a 5 day taper reducing Paroxetine to 5mg and increasing Citalopram to 20mg to "take the edge off." I was discharged the second day without Paroxetine. On the same day I could feel the above symptoms gradually returning and by lunchtime I could barely walk again. I ended up at Emergency Dept again, where a Dr restarted 10mg Paroxetine and discharged me with a script for 7 days worth of Paroxetine. I was told that I had a "psychological addiction" and "I need to take more responsibility for myself." The next day I got another script for a 4 week taper from a compounding pharmacy. I got to the third week for 5mg when the dizzy tingling numbing headaches started. That was almost a month ago. Now I have been measuring 5mg with some expensive scales from crushed Paroxetine tablets. It is amazing how little of the tablets are the actual Paroxetine. I still get the tingling numbing headaches and I suspect this is going to take a long time. Sometimes, like now I feel like giving up. I want to get off both Paroxetine and Citalopram. Many thanks.
  17. manymoretodays

    Melissa03: Paroxetine wd

    Hi Melissa03, Yes, it's a good idea to perhaps limit your reading to the Success stories forum, and then other information, around WD(withdrawal) syndrome and symptoms. Unfortunately, your large reinstatement has not taken away your WD symptoms.......and that is often the case, in that it may mitigate some WD symptoms, but not completely take them away. I don't think that you are kindling, no. And since you have been on your 10 mg paroxetine dose now since March first, it may be best to use non-drug coping now, and then begin to prepare for a more judicious taper, when you feel even just a bit more stability......WD stability. Please, please seek ground help, if needed, if you do feel out of control: Please read through the first post, above, you just need to click/tick the little arrow at the top right and it will take you to it. Apathy, anhedonia, emotional numbness, emotional anesthesia Tinnitis Vision problems For, now Melissa03, I think you might just HOLD steady. Can you give us some idea of how a day goes, in relation to when you take your paroxetine? Notes again please. In the post above the one below, you'll see the how to outlined. Time on the left. Drug(s) by name and dose on the right. Symptoms as they occur throughout the day on the right. Include sleep, and any supplements used. Then post 24 hours right here. Are you using any more benzo now? I think it was lorazepam, that you had used on occasion. Then we can see how symptoms are too, throughout the day. If they let up or not too.......do you generally feel better at certain times of the day? What is: Insomnia is the same? When do you take your 10 mg of paroxetine? Are you able to keep in communication with others, even somewhat during this time? That may help. Watch some non-distressing television or other programming. That can help too. Okay, and Best, L, P, H, and G, mmt
  18. Admin note - link to benzo forum thread - serotoninsyndromesufferer: alprazolam tapering Hello, I would like to thank local community for sharing such important knowledge. Thanks to you, my understanding of things that happened to me is greater, but I still would appreciate some advice and reassurance. I am 28 years old male, sober addict (over 5 years without drugs and alcohol). I started a new life and thought that the worst part of my life is behind me. Some time ago I started working as software engineer and I started to be under big pressure, because I didn't have enough knowledge to do my work in a way that I would consider as a proper way of doing my job. I decided that I would break my rules and get some "help", which would make me more "intelligent". On August 2018 I started to take some brain-chemistry altering supplements, that is: Bacopa Monniera, Ashwaghanda, Alpha GPC, Small amount of Lithium and Fosfatidylserine. I found them really helpful and started to stretch my brain even more. On December 2018 I started to feel overwhelmed by negative emotions (sadness, guilt), which I found really weird because of their instensity. Instead of taking more care of myself I started to work and learn more than before, so the emotions of self-confidence and satisfaction pushed out negative feelings. On 5th February 2019 I couldn't cope with reality anymore. I felt overwhelmed by fear and sadness so much, that I couldn't even send a proper email without mistake. Unforunately, I had really important business trip on 12th February 2019 to another country and despite of my mood, I agreed to go there. In the meantime I wanted to find reason of my state and the most logic explanation back then was that choline from Alpha GPC induced anxiety-depression episode. I also read that anticholinergic agents can help go back to "normal" state. I felt so awful on business trip, that I decided to buy antihistamines to try get back to "normal". I bought a package of Piriton (chlorphenamine) and took a daily dose (24mg) in 4hrs, because of my addict habits and no knowledge about the substance I took. First day was ok, mild heart palpitations, next day I took daily dose in normal intervals (few hours). At the evening I started to feel extremely anxious and weirdly excited. I went to bed and in 30 minutes I woke up in terrible state. I thought that my brain was fried, I was totally paniced. I was shaking and felt total terror. I called my girlfriend, because I didn't know what to do. I managed to go through the night and next day at meeting in a horrbile state. Then I had a terrible trip back, I had to go thought 3 countries and eded in different city, because of delays. Finally I had to go to my city by bus, totally devasted and exhausted. When I got home I was still in super restless state, I tried to go to bed, but I woke up again in panic. I called ER and they took me to hospital. Nobody diagnosed serotonin syndrome and they did just simple diagnosis and gave me anti-pressure drug. I was so desperate that same day (16th February 2019) I went to see a psychiatrist, because I felt that I couldn't handle my state without drugs. He prescribed me fluoxetine 20mg once a day and some antipsychotic for sleep. I didn't know that my state was probably caused by serotonin syndrome and that ssri will make it worse. I took fluoxetine for 11 days (ended on 27th February 2019), which were the hardest psycho-physical days in my whole life. I was living panic with tremors, panic attacks, I couldn't sleep, but I was so exhausted. I decided to go off cold turkey and to start recovery without meds. It was really hard, my main symtpoms was severe dissasociation/derealisation, restlessness, forehead seizures with nightmare-like images, panic attacks, desorientation (woke up at night and didn't know where I am). I had to go to psychiatrist for sickness-leave and he prescribed me paroxetine with alprazolam this time. I didn't want to take any meds back then, but it soon changed. I wanted to recover really badly, I really wanted to have my life back, so I started excercise much and seeing different specialitsts to exclude any sicknesses. Excercising made things worse, because I excited my CNS even more than it was. Then I started to understand my condition quite better and had some accupuncture sessions, TRE and CBT. In the meantime I decided to take alprazolam for sleep, because I couldn't sleep much and my anxiety was too severe to handle. On 21st March 2019 I started to take 0,5mg of alprazolam SR to sleep, then on 30th March 2019 I increased the dosage to 1mg, on 6th April 2019 I changed to normal alprazolam 0,5mg, on 14th April 2019 I decreased dose to 0,25mg and yesterday (17th April 2019) I didn't take any. On 7th April 2019, I changed my mind about antidepressants and believed that everything that happened to me was because my anxiety and decided to take a try with paroxetine. I started from 10mg from 7th April to 11th April, then on 12th April I increased dosage to 20mg. My state was already really bad, so it's hard to say how paroxetine affected me, but at first I felt quite better, less anxiety and a little more willing to live. Then I started to feel side effects, nausea, diarrahea, muscle twitching, my head felt like it was stuffed. I still wanted to believe that it will help me in a long term and appriacted that despite of the side effects, my anxiety was less severe. On 15th April I started to feel mild serotonin syndrome. My skin was buring and itchy again, everything was too hot or too cold for my skin, I was sweating and feeling really tired and dizzy. I decided to take the pill again on 16th April, but it made things just worse. Yesteday (17th April) I also quitted paroxetine. Today (18th April) I haven't slept all night, I feel like a trash, I sweat, I have tremors, I couldn't sleep because of brain zaps and strange buzzing sound in my brain. My anxiety is still less severe, but I am just wating till serotonine in my body will decrease again and the withdrawal will show it's force. To sum up: Drugs and supplements taken: August 2018 - February 2019: Bacopa Monniera, Ashwaghanda, Alpha GPC, Small amount of Lithium and Fosfatidylserine 16th February 2019 - 27th February 2019: Fluoxetine 20mg 21st March 2019 - 30th March 2019: 0,5mg alprazolam SR 30th March 2019 - 6th April 2019: 1mg alprazolam SR 6th April 2019 - 14th April 2019: 0,5mg alprazolam 14th April 2019 - 17th April 2019: 0,25mg of alprazolam 7th April 2019 - 11th April 2019: 10mg paroxetine 11th April 2019 - 16th April 2019: 20mg paroxetine Most acute symtoms: - Restlessness - Agitation - Severe anxiety/ panic in behind 24h/7 - Brain zaps - Derealisation/dissasociation with panic - Insomnia - Grief - Lack of feeling of time (my timespan is about 3hrs, rest of things is just in my head as memory, but I can't tell if it was yesterday or last week) - Trans-like states (when I look at something too long/ the light falls at object I experience strong feeling of derealisation and for a while don't know where I am) - Memory problems - Detached from my personality - Forehead seizures (when I go to sleep, just before I am sleeping I experience feeling of panic/severe and dissasociation with bright light in front of my eyes) - Problems with 3d mapping (I have to be really focused to tell where I am exactly in my city and where should I go to reach the target) - No emotions (just fear, sadness and anger-like states) I would like to ask you: - Is this explanation of things that happend to me logic and probably true? That i suffered from multiple mild/severe serotonin syndroms? - Should I quit benzo and ssri at once? Is it bad if I took benzo for sleep when ssri withdrawal will be the worst? - Is there any person that would help me with the recovery and let me share my experiences with him/her? - Is there someone who also suffered from anxiety and got adverse reaction to ssri/ other drug? - What would be your advice for my recovery? - Do you identidy yourself with my symptoms? Did you have simmilar? I will be really grateful if you would answer my questions. Thanks in advance, SerotoninsyndromeSufferer
  19. Hello forum! Female, 33, Sweden. Have been on Paroxetine, 20mg, for more than 5 years. In April 2017 I had my first major panic attack and ended up in the ER. My life completely changed and I developed panic disorder along with some GAD. Though the GAD may have been the underlying cause of panic, I don't really know. Since September 2017 I have been reducing my dose of Paroxetine, and am now on 10mg. Somewhere in December I got down to 10mg and thought I'd wait until I'm stable at this dose before continuing my taper. I have been using the Claire Weekes-method of trying to completely relax in the face of panic, and I seem to only have smaller attacks now. Palpitations have lessened, and I am less startled by my nervous system signaling panic. I have lately been feeling very off-balance/dizzy and sometimes theres an intense feeling of anxiety and dread in my body. Feels like there are bugs crawling around inside. Weird buzzing nerves? Dizziness is so bad I have to lie down sometimes. Last night I was holding on to the walls when moving around in my house. Feels like I'm losing my balance all the time, even when sitting on the toilet, but I can stand on one leg and walk in a straight line. So it seems to be some sort of misinterpretation happening in my brain, rather than an actual problem with my balance. Now to my question: When I wake up in the morning I usually feel perfectly fine. It is after taking Paroxetine that all of the horrible sensations start, and they seem to calm down slightly in the evening. Is this normal during withdrawal? Or does it sound more like I'm having actual adverse reactions to Paroxetine? They sort of worked until I developed panic disorder. But I clearly remember growing increasingly fearful and illogical during several months before I had that massive panic attack. Thank you in advance.
  20. Hello. I'm "Trinity" from PaxilProgress, which shut down last year without my knowledge. I'll try not to go into a long-winded summary of my life, but.... Depression began to manifest itself during puberty; episodes became more dramatic the older I got. I began Paxil in 1998, during a depressive episode that had taken total control over my life. I started on 10mg and went to 20mg perhaps a week later. I changed into a new person almost immediately. I could be jovial and outgoing, but lost all sense of priority. I lost most sexual function within two weeks of starting the drug. I was reckless and exhibited very poor decision-making. I couldn't think clearly or quickly. I slept poorly. While I had enough energy for work, I could spend entire days and weekends sleeping. It was as if I were drunk most of the time. I had them before, and I continued to have ugly temper tantrums regularly, just like a two-year-old. Around 2006, I fed up with being tired and stupid, so I dropped from 20mg to 10mg. I suffered the “electrical shocks,” dizziness, and other typical withdrawals, but I got through them and achieved a greater presence of mind—though I was absolutely not myself. I still had temper tantrums at least monthly. The side-effects I described, above, improved, but did not disappear. Not at all. I planned the next withdrawal for summer vacation, when I would have less stress. In June of 2014, I went from 10mg to 5mg. The withdrawals wore the same face, but weren’t as strong as before. This was an awful time for me, as I had an abusive, hostile boss who clearly took delight in tormenting employees she didn't "like." I became exceedingly emotional. Once I got upset, I stayed upset for a long time, unable to bounce back from anything. I would obsess over setbacks, conversations, and my professional standing in the community. This obsessiveness caused me a lot of heartache. On the positive side, the temper tantrums largely stopped, and I didn’t feel tired all the time. I didn’t need to sleep or nap like before. I planned the next withdrawal for summer vacation, when I would have less stress. In June of 2015, I stopped taking Paroxetine altogether. I suffered very little in the way of physical side-effects, just a little something for a few days. My mind is gradually clearing, as if someone had taken a wet, heavy blanket off my brain. My perception and reasoning has improved by leaps and bounds. I experience a wider range of emotions. I cried while listening to a love song that reminded me of my wife, when I had not been able to cry in years. Though she continues trying, my boss isn’t able to upset me as easily as before. I don’t care about her the way I used to. I’m more able to recognize what she is doing and dismiss it. Things that would wound me so deeply before aren’t much more than noise, now. I am able to see my past from a new perspective, with renewed clarity. I apologized to people I had offended over the years with my clumsy, highly emotional and unreasonable behavior. I am far from happy-go-lucky, and I doubt I’ll never be just that. There is a darkness that calls to me. I think my mother had this, as well, and would busy herself like a madwoman, because that sort of behavior works very well to preoccupy the mind. I really need some productive obsessions right now! A lot of emotional improvement I’m enjoying could just be the effects of age—I’m not a kid, anymore. However, and without a doubt, the drug was confining my emotions to a certain range and limiting my ability to overcome adversity. I feel it heightened negative emotions and fears and robbed me of the emotional recovery normal people enjoy. My mind is free, which is at once liberating and terrifying. “What if?” That creeps into my brain more often than I would wish. I want a new job. Not so easy a thing to do, here in a cesspool of economic despair, but I want to make the world a better place, and I don’t think I can do that where I am, doing what I do now. A bucket of crabs comes to mind, and that’s not the sort of energy I want in my life right now. So, there we have it: A rambling summary of my nearly two decade dependency upon psychotropic medication. While it saw me through a particularly hurtful period in my life, the loss of cognitive, emotional, and sexual function for the following 17 years was NOT worth the price of admission. I clearly should have been doing something different, because people aren’t meant to live life in a stupor.
  21. cathnz

    cathnz: Tapering off Mirtazapine

    @Altostrata What toxin levels? How was this tested? Have you been exposed to high levels of toxins? I had extensive blood tests done about 2 months ago. Among other things, these showed toxin levels to be extremely elevated (but this particular test did not identify WHAT the toxins were). About 17 years ago I worked in a printing factory with chemicals. That's when I first became unwell. I've seemed to be extremely sensitive to chemicals since. I've only ever been able to tolerate low doses of meds (for example 15mg was the most I could ever tolerate of paroxetine... anything higher would cause symptoms similar to now, albiet to a lesser extent. This has only just dawned on me (having similar feelings on higher than 15mg paroxetine several years ago). Taking a little bit of diazepam, perhaps 05.mg twice a day, may help. You can taper off by tiny amounts later Ok. Will need to work out the logistics of this as it's not an option I'd thought through. On 2/29 @Shep had advised me "We generally don't recommend reinstating a benzo after you've been off for more than a month. And it's been 5 months since you were last on them. So the best path forward may be to cope as best you can and nurture your nervous system with as much self-care as possible. " So this is an option I haven't got my head around, and one which I feel a bit scared about to be honest (introducing another med into my system) . I also don't know how I would even get any benzos... my physchiatrist will be hesitant to prescribe and given that our country is on lockdown they're only seeing extreme cases. I don't know if I'd get in. But I'll give this some serious thought, so thank you for your advice. I'm not sure I can bring myself to taper Mirtazapine yet. I'm too scared to lose sleep. And destabilise my cns even more. I was hoping I could heal before I faced that, but also mindful of the fact that the Mirt might be the problem? But as you seem to think it's not, I'll bear that in mind. Infact I don't have the means to taper Mirt yet anyway. I don't have the equipment @brassmonkey told me to get (I need to order from overseas as I live in NZ). I wanted to wait until I was in a better place mentally and have done some more work with a physchologist. I'm also highly anxious at the moment due to covid, so questioned with myself if this was the best time to taper. What I did wonder though, was if infact infact it was better to get the ball rolling and start extremely slowly. A slowed down version of the brass monkey slide? I just don't know. If only we had a crystal ball aye.
  22. Current drugs: - 2012-present citalopram, currently steady at 25mg - 2020 lyrica: max 4mg/day. started tapering after 2 weeks and having worse withdrawal than from 225mg This case history must be very unusal given the low dose and short time. Has anyone heard of a similar case? Also unusual is the bad method I'm stuck with to calculate doses. Recent start and tapering of lyrica ----------------------------------- I started a microdose of lyrica January 1 2020, thinking I could test side effects and stop if they were bad. Worked up to a maximum of about 4mg/day. After 2 weeks I decided it wasn't for mej. Reduced to 70% of max dose and held 4 days but got serious withdrawal symptoms. I thought an increase might help so went up to 80% of my maximum for 2 days, symptoms got MUCH worse, then down to 75% (1 day) and 65%. I thought lyrica and citalopram might be interacting and that tapering citalopram might be easier, so I tried 20% less (25->20mg) one day. I got the worst anxiety of my life and haven't changed it again. Following that I stayed on 65% of my lyrica dose for 2 weeks while I stabilised. Now on day 5 down from 65% to 60% which has not been bad. So, tapering slowly seems best. BUT I cannot measure doses accurately because I'm dividing powder with a knife on a plate (see below). Would switch to liquid but I can only guess how much I'm taking in a day. I'd be grateful for any advice on what I should do! Or information about similar low-dose, short-term cases, or how to handle inaccurate doses. I've been advised by some to go cold turkey given the small dose and short time, and that might have been ok when I started tapering after 2 weeks, but now I've been on it 6 weeks total. I could just about handle the initial 30% drop from my maximum dose but I could not handle what happened when I raised it 10%, then lowered it again. Maybe my case will be useful to someone. If nothing else it shows you can get hooked on a very small dose. The rest of this post goes into background a little and a lot of detail about what I'm doing now, so may be of less general interest. Prior drug history ------------------ - before 2010: prozac then paroxetine then seroquel. never any real trouble getting off them. Just some anxiety/irritability. - 2012 lyrica (only) for 11 days max 225mg/day then tapered off over 5 days with bad withdrawal symptoms for about a week - 2012 mirtazapine for a couple of months, after the lyrica - 2012-present citalopram, starting near the end of the mirtazapine Why is withdrawal worse in 2020 than on a much bigger dose in 2012? ------------------------------------------------------------------- It's hard to compare the two but the current withdrawal seemed considerably worse even before I raised the dose again and made it much worse. Some ideas I had: - I'm also on citalopram now. - Use or withdrawal from lyrica in 2012 primed/changed something. - I got lucky when i went off quickly in 2012, just in time (tapering after 11 days of using it) and just fast enough (5 tapered doses) to escape worse withdrawal. - The down/up dose in first week or withdrawal made it much worse. Also changing citalopram dose for 1 day seemed clearly VERY bad. Switching to liquid ------------------- Day 1 of last taper (65->60%) was partly with liquid I got from a compounding pharmacy. I replaced about 23% of the powder with liquid. Symptoms from underdosing have been bad but less bad than raising the dose, so I aimed low, and took what should have been roughly 45% less liquid than needed (using my rough estimate at equivalance - see dosing method below for details). It was much too strong. I got more sedated than I've ever been on lyrica, lots of muscle twitches, then somewhat agitated when it wore off. I switched back to all-powder doses, and decreased the evening dose by 1/3 to compensate for the morning overdose, and from the next day remained 5% of max dose lower. This has gone surprisingly well despite the updose then decrease. I'm tempted to stay on the powder, but I can't divide into smaller amounts than 1/256 of a capsule with any accuracy at all. That means as I decrease the dose, the reduction step size will get bigger. The most recent step down (65->60%) was about 7.5% of my current dose, but that will become 15% of current dose given a few more steps etc. Also, if a shirtsleeve brushes my reference doses away I'm sunk - I'll have little idea how much to take. But if I switch to liquid, I have to guess how much to take, and try to correct for symptoms, and gradually replace powder with liquid. After the first drop in dose (100% to 70%) it seemed to take a few days for the withdrawal to really get going. If that's still true, adjusting the liquid dose up and down could easily get out of hand and be less gentle than the later, and proportionally bigger, powder decreases. So neither option is good. Powder dosing method (details) ------------------------------ The method I use to dose is awful: I divide capsule's powder into two piles of 1/2, then divide each pile agqin and again. Currently I take 1/64 + 1/128th of a capsule every morning and again at night. This has limited accuracy of course, but it gets worse; there is residue left on the plate after the division. The amount of residue has changed over time since I switched from a big knife to a razor blade, and I haven't been consistent about how much residue I leave. At one point I thought measurements would be more consistent if I kept "reference" piles of each key size: 1/32, 1/64 and 1/128. But I realise now the references are not accurate, and I'm basically eyeballing the new piles now to match the reference ones. To estimate how much my 1/128 actually is, I started a new pill, and divided it with as little residue as possible (using a razor blade, which doesn't leave much at allif you're careful). To my amazement I seem to have left about 50% of the pill as residue. Separately I began sweeping residue from another pill into a pile, which I estimated was about 30% of the pill. Another idea would be to weigh my 1/64th, but I suspect it's too little to measure accurately with any scale I can get my hands on. Potency of my powder -------------------- To make matters even worse, the capsules I'm using expired 4.5 years ago. From a short look on the net and talking with a pharmacist this might not be big deal. But also the powder sits on a plate being slowly divided for up to 2 weeks before I take it, so it may degrade somewhat.
  23. cathnz

    cathnz: Tapering off Mirtazapine

    Thanks @Shep. The B12 is something I had been taking because I have low B12 levels (as well as iron, folate, selenium, and Vit E). My levels came back low despite eating well prior. I had been taking it, along with other supps, then stopped for fear it was making me worse. But decided that low B12 could be making matters worse, so started it back up at a fraction of the dose. I'll see what else I can add in around the food. I didn't take the B12 yesterday. It doesn't make me feel any different whether I take it or not (will not at the time anyway... perhaps it has a knock on effect). I've put yesterday's symptom diary below. I'm not sure if I should continue doing this... what do you think? In all honestly, it has highlighted no obvious patterns to me. Everything (symptoms) are always constantly there... there's just some times of day they're more intense. But that could even be because I've stopped to 'check in with myself' so it's more noticeable? I don't know. I don't know anything anymore. If I wasn't on the Mirtazapine, I'd 100% know for sure this was withdrawl, and could just let time heal. But I still have this constant niggling feeling that it might be the Mirtazapine. I've never been able to tolerate high doses of meds (I couldn't ever go higher than 15mg of paroxetine), so 30mg Mirtazapine may be too much for me (although I still had these sensations at 15mg Mirtazapine). So there's a constant nonstop battle in my head of "is this withdrawl or is this the Mirtazapine"... and obviously the way I deal with either scenario is very different... one is let time heal the other is I need to get off it. I'm actually torturing myself with this! I read another members journey (chickens) and feel very similar... and I see that for her, changing off the Mirtazapine is what she did and felt better. But everyone's story is different, I know. What worked for her may be hell for me. I wish I had a crystal ball... if I knew the cause 100% I could have a better plan going forward. If it was infact the Mirtazapine, I have no idea how to deal with that, as advice on here is how to taper off, not change. Ugh. So much confusion.I can't even fathom a taper while feeling this unstable. I also now have the fear of future tolerance wd and want to avoid that at all costs (especially given that its happened to me twice before). Those other times, I was happy to 'just switch meds', (as I knew no better). If it happened again I'd rather die than go through a switch like last time. So even though its still ingrained in me that "I need meds", I need to come off them to avoid tolerance wd again. Do you think it's worth getting the ball rolling now, and start withdrawing at like 1% or 2 % a month?? Anyway. Here's yesterdays dairy. It doesn't have as much info, as basically, it's the same as other days. Just not stop akathisia/paraesthesia. Overwhelm. Hopelessness. I feel like diarying this day after day is just reinforcing me dwelling on all this and non stop checking in. So do you think it might be ok to stop, unless anything changes, in which case I'll note it. @Altostrata? Sun 29th March *6am - Woke up with gnawing buzzing deep in chest. Electrical current running through me as usual. *8am - Had online EFT appointment and tapped with a practioner. Distress slightly reduced *9.30am - Breakfast and a glass of water. Electric current running through me. Trying to breathe through the distress. *12pm - Increase in the gnawing in solar plexus. *12. 30pm - Lunch and glass of water *3pm - Tinnitus and ear sensitivity increased. Body buzzing as per usual. *4pm - Went for walk to try and alleviate leg buzzing and discomfort. *6.30pm - Dinner and glass of water *7.30pm - Wave of anxiety and intensity in leg buzzing. *8.30pm - Mirtazapine then bed. *9.30pm - Increase in genital buzzing, solar plexus gnawing, teeth buzzing, and burning in legs and muscles in upper back. Increased anxiety. Massive fear about being 'stuck' on meds forever. Terrified of being in tolerance withdrawl of Mirtazapine one day, and having to go through this all again.
  24. Hi Guys. I have been on every SSRI over the past 2 years, apart from Paroxetine. This all started from some situational anxiety at work. Each time i took a medication i was on them for about 3 month without any benefit at all. I would loose time at work, cold turkey and return back to work. Each time i did this i was getting worse and worse. I would then return back to the doctor and ve started on something else. This has basically gone on for 2 years. All this time i have got worse. I have now come to understand withdrawal and the fact i could have well been prescribed numerous medications due to an illness been mistaken for withdrawal. 8 weeks ago after stopping my second attempt of Escitalopram for 3 months i decided to stop for good with a fast taper. I feel anxious, dizzy, fatigued, poor cognition and inability to focus. I know if i take a dose of SSRI that this will improve however i will return to the Zombie state of meds. I am finished with medication!!! On reflection my problems i encountered prior to any medication was far easier than the problems i have had the past 2 years on medications. I think i have been a victim of Psychiatry! I dont think i ever needed medication! My chemical imbalance was created by meds! If i had no knowledge of this i would be stuck in Psychiatry! I just want to know ppls experiences and can i still be in withdrawal at 8 weeks after 2 years of messing about with meds. Thanks Lee
  25. Hi, I was initially put on 37.5 mg paroxetine during a postpartum depressive episode in June 2016. My pdoc suspected the dose to be too high and reduced to 25 mg. I held on 25 mg for almost a year, and then my pdoc and I decided to try a dose reduction to 12.5 mg. I had a few brain zaps, but nothing serious, so I held there for a few months. My pdoc and I decided to drop to 0 mg in October 2017 (by taking 12.5 mg alternate days then zero). Again, only brain zaps were experienced. Four months later, at the beginning of March 2018, severe protracted withdrawal kicked in. I had not discovered this forum, so I immediately jumped to 12.5 mg at the recommendation of a doctor friend, and several days later jumped to 25 mg at the recommendation of my pdoc. When I experienced what I now know is a wave, I thought the paroxetine dose was not high enough, and my pdoc increased it to 37.5 mg. I have been on this dose for May and June, but now I have developed really loud tinnitus, and I suspect that the 37.5 mg dose might be too high. My pdoc supports my reducing to 25 mg. However, I don't want to destabilise my system. I have tried to work out the pharmacokinetics of the controlled release tablets, to see how to 'spread' my reduced dose over 24 hours, but have not found much on the internet. My intuition would be to take my 25 mg controlled release in the morning, along with 5 mg immediate release, so that I would have a peak and then a gradual dose over 24 hours. This would reduce my dose from 37.5 mg over 24 hours to 30 mg over 24 hours. Since I strongly believe that my system is flooded with serotonin, I think that this step won't destabilise me as there is an accumulated 'stash' of serotonin floating around my system. Any advice from the seasoned taperers out there? Thanks for hearing my story, Bee5
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