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  1. I'm new here, but have been following this forum off and on for over a decade. I think I'm finally stable enough to try tapering off my current meds. I've been on some form of ssri for about 25 years. I've been working with a naturopath for about 5 years to address some other health concerns that have really been supportive to my healing. I'm entrenched in a wellness program that is also very supportive. I tried earlier this year to taper off with help of a dr and thought it would work (silly me). His suggestions for tapering were far too large and quick. I've read a lot of what has been written here and have prepared myself to go much much slower and realize it could take years. For this next attempt, the dr proposed a prozac bridge and I went along with it, as I've done something similar before and it worked pretty well. (Again, silly me). Prozac makes me very very tired and I do not want to continue it, plus I don't think I need it for the taper, given what I've read here. I'm in the process of tapering off the Prozac and went from 20mg to 10mg with no problem whatsoever. However, my jump from 10mg to 5mg was quite disasterous. I now realize I must go much much slower going forward. I'm at 10mg Prozac now and will start going down on that next week. I will eventually attempt tapering off my 75mg effexor, but that will be after prozac taper. I'm trying to get everything in place for this. I've printed out symptom logs to keep track of everything daily and will look into the jeweler's scale for my effexor. Here I go! 🙂
  2. Hello there, I am new to this forum and am seeking any guidance you can give me as I am in despair and feel horrible. I had been on SSRI’s for over 25 years and have always wanted to get off them but never could. Always tapered too fast and ended up feeling horribly sick so I would start back up. It was just easier staying on them. Several years ago, I realized that my mood had become really flat and I had trouble getting excited about anything. I wasn’t necessarily sad or depressed about anything but I felt that there was more to life and believed it had to do with the Prozac. So, I made the decision to taper differently this time – very slowly over the course of a few years. Unfortunately, I tapered completely wrong. Just because I was going more slowly did not mean that I was doing it right. How I wish I had found this website sooner. I began skipping doses and taking 20mg every other day. Maintained that for about a year. Then began taking it only a few days per week and maintained that. Then dropped down to 2 days per week. Then instead of taking 20 mg, I began taking 10 mg 2 days per week. All this time, I was having intermittent withdrawals, but did not recognize the symptoms for what they were. I ended up in the ER twice with chest pressure that was diagnosed as acid reflux but it was withdrawals. I had bouts of severe muscle pain/burning in my shoulders and neck that would last for about a week and then go away and then resurface down the road. My doctor suggested I had Fibromyalgia and prescribed Cymbalta which I refused to take. I never believed that I had Fibro but I still hadn’t connected the dots that my symptoms were withdrawals from tapering so poorly. When I got down to 10mg twice a week, my doctor told me since I was on such a low dose, to just stop it. So, I stopped the Prozac in March 2019 and began taking amino acids – Tryptophan 1000 mg, DLPA 1000 mg and GABA 125 mg (upon the advice of a holistic doctor). Since then, I have ranged from feeling ok to pretty good. In fact the week before the horrendous withdrawals began on July 24th, I thought I was getting close to my “normal” self again. My husband and I were even planning on doing an embryo transfer later this year in the hopes of having our first child. The holistic doctor advised me that amino acids were safe to take while pregnant, however, I recently came across articles that say otherwise. Unfortunately, I played with fire and wanted to see what would happen if I stopped taking the DLPA. So, I stopped the DLPA, for 3 days. On the 3rd day, all heck broke loose and I became extremely dizzy and off balance for most of the day. The very next day, I resumed the DLPA hoping it would alleviate my symptoms but they continued and evolved into other ones as well. Initially, I thought that the symptoms were withdrawals from DLPA but now I believe they are protracted withdrawal from the Prozac. I think the aminos were keeping the lid on the Prozac withdrawals and then once I lifted that lid off, everything boiled over. After a week of terrible withdrawals and calling in sick for 2 days, I couldn't take it anymore and decided to reinstate the Prozac. I came across the SA website and the recommendation to reinstate a very small amount. I only had 10mg and 20 mg pills left so I made liquid Prozac out of the 10mg and reinstated at 1.25 mg. Although, I did not have any negative effects from 1.25 mg, the next day I was scared that I reinstated too high and only took .5 mg. That is where I have been at for 9 days now. I am pushing myself to work each day and it is so very difficult with my symptoms: feeling sick/hungover, chest pressure, difficulty breathing, fatigue, insomnia, neck/shoulder tension, sometimes a burning sensation in my neck/shoulders, too. Over the past 9 days, I would say that I am better than I was before the reinstatement but I am still miserable. There have been a couple of times when I have experienced a wired feeling, too. I did go and see my new PCP and it did not go well. Of course, she told me that there is no way I could be in withdrawals if I quit Prozac in March and that she believes I have underlying depression and anxiety in which she suggested I take Effexor. I told her I would never take that. I am looking for guidance as to whether it is time for me to increase or hold at .5 mg longer. I apologize in advance if this was too long winded and does not make much sense.
  3. I had been taking 10 mg of Prozac for about 4.5 years (Jan 2014-- Sept 2018) without any negative experience. Due to a pharmacy error my medicine was increased to 20 mg (Oct 2018)-I took for 1 month (unknowingly) but I did not take in Nov 2018 b/c felt uncomfortable on. Early Dec 2018 medicine prescription was increased to 40 mg (7 days at 30mg, then to 40mg). One month (Jan 2019) after the increase I developed hand tremors and noticed issues with cognition. The medicine was decreased to 30 mg (Jan 2019) and the tremors did cease. But continuing on 30 mg over the next 2 months (Feb-March 2019) the side effects still included cognitive issues- processing speed/retention/memory/following conversations AND in March I started to develop a strange headache/head pain/ heaviness in my head, neck stiffness, global facial muscle tightness, a strain on my ability to read, food sensitivity. I had not had any of these symptoms prior to the increase. At that point (end of March 2019) I wanted to discontinue Prozac. The doctor said I should try another SSRI and prescribed 25 mg of Zoloft (which I tried for 7 day--until early April 2019). I still preferred to discontinue with the meds. I did ask if tapering was necessary and I was informed no. I was told I did not need to worry. SO I DID STOP COLD TURKEY. I asked if symptoms would go away and I was told after stopping the medicine at most a month or two---I wouldn’t be experiencing anything. It has now been 4 months since stopping medicine (cold turkey) and I am still experiencing several issues that started after the higher dosage—for example the headache/head pain (like a weightiness in my head), a constant stiff right neck and lower right head region, facial muscle tightness, when speaking a tightness in the neck area and face feels tight, and a restrain on my ability to read (internally) whenever I try I feel head tension and tightness around eye muscles. It's like I experience a pressure/ tightness in back of head/ overall head & eyes when reading (internally) which affects pace/comprehension/retention and causes fatigue. Certain foods cause face to feel tight. And though some of the cognitive issues have improved, I still have some slower processing with certain things/ and the physical strain when reading. A new symptom that started shortly after stopping the medicine (off and on shock like feelings on the right side of my body that come and go randomly). Overall, the restrain on reading affects my ability to pursue educational and career goals. . summary: 10 mg prozac for about 5 years (no adverse effects). Increased to 40 mg prozac Dec 2018 (negative), then decrease to 30 mg (Jan 2019). Remained at 30mg until end of March 2019 (still adverse affects). Zoloft for one week until April (still adverse). Last day on medicine April 1st, 2019. Stopped medicine cold turkey. No tapering schedule. 4 months out--still adverse effects. At this point, I just want to get better.
  4. Hi, all. Thank you so much for providing this site. I’ve been inspired by the stories here, and look forward to my own recovery and hope to help others as I can along the way. It’s been a hellish year… I have a rather long story – 99% of which takes place within the last year – so please bear with me. I’ll write this out in a timeline for organization’s sake. In essence, I have a history of anxiety and depression, and have OCD. I have been suffering from severe postpartum anxiety (PPA) and depression (PPD) since delivering my son in May 2018 – exacerbated by a move out East so I could start my PhD, the decline and death of my dog, dealing with childhood trauma, etc. I was on Prozac and Xanax as needed before I was pregnant and went off without any problems while we were trying to conceive. I had an uncomplicated pregnancy. Here we go… 1999ish – 2005 (6th grade – high school) (Zoloft, Lexapro, Wellbutrin) I was diagnosed with severe academic perfectionism and OCD and put on (I think) Zoloft first (not sure of dosage). In the years that followed, I was on Lexapro and Wellbutrin, all in various combinations. I don’t remember timing or dosages. I don’t remember having a hard time coming on or off any of the meds. I was chronically ill in high school, though, with fatigue, mono, sinusitis, shingles (to be fair, I had immunological issues before going on meds, too, and a complicated family situation). I took the year after high school off to recover, went off all meds. All I remember is feeling tired and my sleep being on a weird schedule. 2005 – 2009 (no meds) I started taking some community college classes, started volunteering, and then working full-time. Started paying more attention to my diet (went off gluten and most dairy after I realized it made me feel better). Was doing very, very well. Summer 2009 – Summer 2017 (40 mg Prozac daily, ? Xanax PRN rarely taken; occasional supplements - multi vitamin, vitamin D, fish oil, probiotics) Started on 40mg Prozac (slow taper to START it), as a ‘preventative’ measure against OCD and perfectionism (I know… probably wasn’t necessary, but I can’t prove a negative) as I was about to start at a university in the fall of 2009; I was pushed by family (also on psych meds) to start. I think it helped somewhat but it’s hard to know. Eventually, I had an Rx of Xanax, which I took maybe 5-10x/year as needed. I did well in college, though, started a great career, went to the UK on scholarship to do my Master’s and then decided to QUICKLY taper off the Prozac when my husband and I (we married in 2014) decided to conceive. I don’t remember having any issues coming off the Prozac. I was on it fairly consistently for 8 years. Summer 2017 – May 2018 (no meds; supplements: prenatal vitamin, 800 mg folic acid, 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin D, ? fish oil) Pregnant, more depressed than usual, especially after moving back home from the UK and being unsure of what was next. Still, did the damn GRE, applied to PhD programs, got into a great program out East, started setting up our life out there. Obsessive compulsive symptoms were worse than usual but not unmanageable. Late May 2018 (no meds; supplements: prenatal vitamin, 800 mg folic acid, 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin D, ? fish oil) Delivered my son. Epidural, long labor. Started breastfeeding. Early June 2018 (no meds; supplements: prenatal vitamin, 800 mg folic acid, 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin D, ? fish oil) Had a week of awful insomnia and anxiety and intrusive thoughts, but it went away. Early June – Mid-July (no meds; supplements: prenatal vitamin, 800 mg folic acid, 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin D, ? fish oil) Doing okay, just exhausted and depressed (I was breastfeeding around the clock). One week in mid-July 2018 (? Xanax, one-time dosage ~6mg Zoloft, and one-time dosage 2mg Ativan, one-time dosage ? Klonopin in hospital; supplements: prenatal vitamin, 800 mg folic acid, 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin D, ? fish oil) Then, at around 7 postpartum weeks - BAM - I was hit with a week of NO SLEEP. I just couldn't sleep and I lost my appetite. I had been given an Rx for Zoloft by my OBGyn and took a very small amount that Friday (I wanted to ease in). That night, all my symptoms were much worse – and I also felt this severe restlessness in my limbs. It was AWFUL. I even tried Xanax to calm me down (I gave to my son pumped breastmilk). My anxiety was so bad that I went to the ER that Sunday. They drew blood and it turned out that my blood sodium was dangerously low (126) - possibly due to not eating enough and drinking too much water. They gave me Ativan (2 mg – which was A LOT for my system), some Klonopin, too, eventually, and fluids overnight and I felt MUCH better the next day. I was given Ativan and Remeron as needed but didn't need to take it for a few weeks. Mid-July to Late Aug 2018 (0.5 – 1mg Ativan daily; supplements: prenatal vitamin, 800 mg folic acid, 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin D, ? fish oil) I was fine for a few weeks, and then my family and I moved out East, where I was attending grad school (I’m now on medical leave). The anxiety and insomnia came back around the move in August. I took Ativan (0.5 – 1 mg) as needed each day and had some rebound anxiety but was able to get through until setting up care there. I was assigned an interim psychiatrist (before being placed with a regular one), who Rxed me 0.5 Ativan to take at night to sleep for 10 days. This worked for sleep, but not the overall anxiety and depression. Due to breastfeeding concerns, they switched me to Trazodone (25-50 mg), which worked ok for sleep. Eventually, I was able to fall asleep on my own for a couple/few nights. That would be the last time I could do that to-date. Late Aug to Late Sept 2018 (0.5 – 1mg Ativan daily, 1-5mg Prozac, 25-50 mg Trazodone; supplements: postnatal vitamin, 800 mg folic acid, 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin D, ? fish oil, started taking some B complex, probiotics?) I started seeing a regular psychiatrist in early September, and we agreed I should go back on the Prozac with 1 mg Ativan/day as needed. We started sloooow on the Prozac - 1mg, then 2, then 5. By week 3, I had lost my appetite completely, and my anxiety was through the roof - just on 5mg (I was on 40 before becoming pregnant, so I couldn’t understand why I was feeling so terribly). The Trazodone was no longer helping me sleep, and was giving me terrible dry mouth. My limbs felt like they were vibrating. My psydoc FINALLY directed me to go off the Prozac and Ativan, and Rxed me just Klonopin 0.75mg/day. In addition to the psychiatrist, I saw a primary care doc, who checked my thyroid, adrenal glands (several tests there), vitamin levels, and other things - all normal. My blood sodium has still been a little low, but they believe it's due to not eating enough. Oct 2018 (Klonopin 0.25 – 0.75mg/day; postnatal vitamin, 800 mg folic acid, 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin D, ? fish oil, started taking some B complex, I might have tried some hormone-balancing herbs – I don’t remember exactly, probiotics?) My appetite returned but it was never the same. I was sleeping better, but not well – maybe 6 hours at most, sometimes waking in a panic. I could only take one class. I was very depressed and frustrated, and deeply confused as to why I wasn’t responding to medications. But I felt BETTER than when I was on the Prozac, and was able to feel like I could sleep on my own again, and on just 0.25mg Klonopin/day – but the plan was to let me ‘settle’ and then try a new AD, sooo… Nov 2-4 2018 (25mg Anafranil at night, 0.25-0.5mg Klonopin/day; postnatal vitamin, 800 mg folic acid, 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin D, ? fish oil, started taking some B complex, I might have tried some hormone-balancing herbs – I don’t remember exactly, probiotics?) The psydoc suggested Anafranil, a TCA. The day I started it, we put my dog down and I stopped breastfeeding (I had been tapering on that for months). It wasn’t a great time to start something. But I did. I took it the night of the 2nd, fell asleep instantly, then woke up feeling SO GOD AWFUL about 3 hours later. I had a tremor, I vomited, I couldn’t eat. My husband had to hold me while I shook in bed. I called the psydoc and she told me to keep taking it, sounding annoyed with me. So I pushed through for three days – but that was all I could do. Until then, that was the worst I have ever felt. Nothing could calm me down. Things start heating up here, so I’ll spare some details and focus more on the med changes… Nov 5-8 2018 I barely remember these days. Sleep was poor, I felt awful. Then on a Thursday night, I was up all night with panic attacks. I called my therapist and made the decision to go into the psych hospital. Nov 9 – 15 2018 (In hospital, put on 0.5mg Klonopin 2x/day and worked up to 100 mg Seroquel at night) I didn’t start sleeping until I was put on a combination of Seroquel and Klonopin. BUT, I remember this creeping feeling of “buzziness” and restlessness when I woke up everyday. That feeling would continue to get worse over the coming weeks and stay with me to the present. Nov 15 – Early Dec 2018 (0.5mg Klonopin 2x/day → 0.25mg Klonopin 2x/day; 100mg Seroquel at night; some supplements – don’t remember) I left the hospital taking 100mg Seroquel at night and 0.5 mg klonopin 2x/day. I officially went on medical leave from grad school. I stuck with this doseage for 2ish weeks, was sleeping well but feeling horribly depressed and anxious, then started to quickly taper the Klonopin. I don’t remember how quickly – but I wasn’t taking anymore than 0.5mg/day by early December. I then tapered on the Seroquel after feeling SO much worse when an IOP psydoc tried bumping the dose to 125mg; I remember not being able to sit still – going outside to pace. No tremor – just pacing, fidgeting, and losing a lot of weight. Early December 2018 – Early Jan 2019 (1mg Ativan at night, 2.5mg Zyprexa at night, 25-100mg Lamictal; postnatal vitamin, 800 mg folic acid, 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin D, ? fish oil, started taking some B complex, I might have tried some hormone-balancing herbs – I don’t remember exactly, probiotics?) I made the decision to move back home to do a program specialized in PPD (we ended by moving back entirely later that winter). In the program, I was put on 0.5-1mg Ativan at night, 2.5 mg Zyprexa at night (for sleep – though it never helped), and titrated up to 100mg Lamictal (the psydoc suspected a bipolar spectrum diagnosis). I was still incredibly restless, unable to sit down and just enjoy a movie. And my sleep was growing worse and worse. It was awful – then my mood grew worse and worse as we went up on the Lamictal; I also had increasingly bad tinnitus and TMJ. I was hospitalized as my thinking became suicidal – just ideations, but I was ready to go back in… Early to Mid-Jan 2019 (0.5mg Klonopin 2x/day, 5mg Paxil/day, 50mg Benadryl at night; 0.25-1mg Risperidone 1-2x/day; some supplements?; THEN back to 150mg Seroquel) In the hospital, I was taken off the Lamictal and put on 5mg Paxil once/day, 0.5 mg Klonopin 2x/day, Benadryl 50mg at night (for sleep), and Risperidone 0.25mg once or twice a day (I don’t remember). I became increasingly orthostatic (low BP, high HR). I stabilized mood-wise – sorta – and left the hospital feeling off, but better… Within days, though, we tried increasing the Risperidone, and my HR went up to 140 (I think we tried 1 mg). I wasn’t sleeping AT ALL. I was taken off the Risperidone, stayed on 5mg Paxil once/day, 0.5 mg Klonopin 2x/day, Benadryl 50mg at night (for sleep). Eventually, as my sleep diminished, the PPD IOP doc put me back on Seroquel (I has actually asked to go back on) – but suggested as much as 150mg. After that, my mood really shifted and became erratic; I was really upset and angry at my husband and suicidal ideation returned. So it was suggested I go back in the hospital... Late Jan to Mid-Feb 2019: 3-week hospital stay (see below for crazy med changes) All the docs agreed I didn’t need to be in there this long (everyone kept asking why I was still there), but there I was so they could keep throwing stuff at me to see if something stuck. I was holding out hope SOMETHING would work this time...: First week: 0.5 mg Klonopin 2x/day, 100 mg Seroquel at night, 300mg XR lithium 2x/day (HORRIBLE stomach reaction, especially when the doc abruptly pulled the Seroquel) Second week: 0.5 mg Klonopin 2x/day, 50mg Seroquel at night, some amount of Depakote (I don’t remember – wasn’t improving, irritable), tried PRNs of 12.5mg Seroquel and became really depressed Third week: 1 mg Klonopin 2x/day, 50mg Seroquel at night, 1200mg gabapentin (taken as 300mg twice during the day, and 600mg at night). That’s how I left the hospital. Mid-Feb to Early-March 2019: (0.75mg Klonopin 2x/day, 50mg Seroquel at night, 300mg Gabapentin 2x daytime and 600mg at night, brief re-trial of lithium – 150mg; multivitamin, 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin D, ? fish oil, 1200mg evening primrose oil, probiotics?) Instantly went down to 0.75mg Klonopin 2x/day (fear of dependence). New trauma-based IOP. Was very constipated. Tried low-dose lithium (150mg) as lithium seemed to be the only med to be helping to-date (along with benzos); was improving somewhat mood-wise, but the stomach issues were SO bad, so we went off. After going off lithium, my restlessness SKYROCKETED, and was particularly bad for 10 days. My stomach was AWFUL; I was taking antacids all the time; seemed to be worse after taking gabapentin, so the new IOP doc cut THAT dosage in half. Developed a tremor. The new IOP psydoc diagnosed me with akathisia – FINALLY. I had NEVER heard of that before (although, in retrospect, I think it has been mentioned to me in the hospital as a possible side-effect of the antipsychotics – but I remember them saying “you can get this, but I don’t see that in you, so…” and so I ignored it (dumb)). When I read about it, I felt so frustrated; this had, no doubt, been plaguing me since at least the one-time Zoloft attempt in July - and in particular since the first Seroquel doseage in November. Doc suggested I reduce my Seroquel from 50 to 25mg; I couldn’t do that for a couple of weeks. Early to Mid-March (→0.25mg Klonopin during day and 0.5-0.75mg/night, 25mg Seroquel at night, 200mg Gabapentin 2x daytime and 300mg at night, brief re-trial of Depakote – don’t remember dosage; multivitamin, 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin D, ? fish oil, 1200mg evening primrose oil, probiotics) Continue reducing my Klonopin down to 0.25mg during the day and 0.5mg at night. We tried XR Depakote as a Hail Mary in the med department. It seemed to help a bit, but also increased some of the restlessness. At this point – and this should have come sooner for me – I was done – just DONE– with med changes. My body needed a break. I haven’t added or taken away and particular meds since (with one exception - the propranolol, see below) – though I have reduced the dosages… Early April (0.25mg Klonopin during day and 0.5-0.75mg/night, 25mg Seroquel at night, 200mg Gabapentin 2x daytime and 300mg at night, up to 70mg propranolol throughout the day; multivitamin, 1,000-2,000 mg vitamin D, ? fish oil, 1200mg evening primrose oil, probiotics) Was diagnosed with thyroiditis (my thyroid had been normal as recently as January) – a relatively common thing postpartum, but it was ‘late’ to arrive to be postpartum thyroiditis, so doctors suspected the lithium. B/c I was hyperthyroid first (usually follows a pattern of a few months in 'hyper'/overactive mode, followed by anywhere from 3 to 18 (or more) months underactive. I was put on propranolol (taking as much as 70mg throughout the day). That seemed to help the tremor, heart palpitations, and restlessness maybe 50-75% of the time. But it crashed my BP. Early-April to Present (see below) We’ve moved into a new, stable house (both good and really stressful). As of early June, I am off the Seroquel. I tapered from 25 to 0mg by reducing by about 6.25mg every two weeks or so. I tried re-starting it to do an every-other-day ending taper, and felt instantly WORSE, so I am done. But it was probably too quick a taper. I NEVER want to take another antipsychotic again, though; I can point to the beginning of the worst parts of this whole cluster to starting Seroquel, and the akathisia that ensues and continues. I reduced the daytime Klonopin to 0 (though I’ve had to take a 0.0625mg to 0.125mg PRN three times in June as things have grown worse). I still take 0.5mg Klonopin at night. In June, I also went off the propranolol – too quickly – and have been having heart palpitations, and have been orthostatic. My BP was just getting to be so, so low. Now, taking any amount of it seems to make me more agitated/restless or, at best, woozy. In June, I also got ambitious and reduced the gabapentin from taking 400 mg during the day (200mg 2x/day) to 0 at the end of June, mostly b/c I thought it was making me feel worse; I’m not sure on this STILL (or if it ever did much of anything). I still take 300mg at night with 0.5 mg Klonopin. May was my best month - not great (I was still constantly restless, struggled with my appetite, and was really disoriented and depressed), but it felt more manageable. I should have done a slower taper on all things when I felt more stable, then – but here I am. June started out okay but, after going off the Seroquel and trying a glass of wine again (out with a friend), it’s been awful; the akathisia is back in full swing. NOW I seem to have reached this point where my body won’t tolerate much of anything again – as if it’s saying “if you’re done with one, then you’re going to be done with them ALL.” I’ve also noticed that the first half of my menstrual cycle is FAR AND AWAY WORSE than the latter half – and am trying to explore ways to (as naturally as possible) balance my hormones. I tried bioidentical progesterone cream that an integrative MD Rxed and it helped somewhat, but caused cramping and spotting and an upset stomach – no go. Currently Taking 0 – 200mg gabapentin during the day; 300mg gabapentin at night 0.5mg Klonopin at night 5mg melatonin (+10mg B6 – combo pill) at night Fish oil (1400mg EPA + 480 DHA) in morning and afternoon 1500mg primrose oil morning and afternoon 200-400mg magnesium glycinate at night, and magnesium oxide throughout day 2000mg vitamin D afternoon Cal+Mag+Potassium supplement afternoon 2 kinds of probiotics morning Multivitamin morning What Makes Things Worse Alcohol; I haven’t been able to tolerate this since sometime early spring – makes me SUPER anxious. Any antihistamine; it used to help me sleep but something in the last 2-4 months has changed my brain so I now feel WORSE the next morning. Some vitamins (I say that b/c I sometimes feel more buzzy after taking a multivitamin; on the other hand, sometimes I feel better) Caffeine (not that I’ve tested this too much; the most I ever drink is a cup of green tea, and I haven’t been able to do that in weeks) Antacids (found that out the hard way) What Helps Epsom salt baths Sweating Crying (when I am able to) Walking (especially in sunshine) Melatonin (at night – for sleep) Klonopin (but I am trying not to go over 0.5mg/day – mostly at night; and want to taper off) Massage Stretching Kombucha (not too much, though b/c caffeine) Apple cider vinegar + lemon water (ahead of meals and when I have an upset stomach – at east once/day) Eating enough (really tough to do right now) Not Sure if it Helps (tried/trying it) Acupuncture (doing this for a few months now) Therapy – CBT, talk Gabapentin (want to taper off anyway) Primrose oil Multivitamin Fish oil Magnesium Calcium CBD oil What I Need Help With I’m here b/c I need to feel like I’m not crazy when the psydoc says this isn’t still akathisia. I KNOW it is – I KNOW it’s protracted withdrawal and the effect of such a brain-altering year. I know this b/c, even in my most anxious moments pre-postpartum medications, I never felt this protracted insatiable restlessness and dread. I was a champ at sleeping (though a night owl). And my appetite was always solid (too much so, at times). This is DIFFERENT. I also want to get off the gabapentin and the Klonopin – but do so in a smart way. I’m not sure the gabapentin is a net evil right now and shouldn’t be taken off altogether? And is the gabapentin the best thing to drop first? And I need help managing the akathisia. I've read some tips here, and will explore those. Any help on the hormone piece would be invaluable. There is something there. I feel the effects of akathisia/withdrawal/autonomic disregulation far more at the start of my cycle. And this whole postpartum period has been inherently hormonally disregulating (compounded by meds like Depakote, which altered my cycle). Anyone else? Anything help? I plan to keep a more focused journal as this site recommends and track my symptoms alongside food, supplement, and med changes. Of course, what sucks THE MOST is the lost time and what's been taken - from the joy of being a new mother, to what was supposed to be a fulfilling career move in pursuing my PhD (I might have to give up my place now b/c I'm so disabled), to feeling defective for not responding to the 'right treatments.' The worst year of your life should not also be the first year of motherhood. To those of you that read this monster of a post – or event 10% - THANK YOU.
  5. Wow! First of all I would like to say how relieved I was to have found this forum. For the years I've been struggling with this I have gotten so tired of other people (including doctors and therapists!) telling me that what I've experienced isn't possible and that I'm either making it all up or still sick. Everything started in my junior year of college. I had struggled with varying levels of depression and anxiety for most of my life, even resorting to SI when I was younger, but had finally hit a point where I thought that I needed some professional help. Looking back, I'm sure that the sudden drop was situational as much as anything. Most of my friends had moved away or graduated, my family was going through some money trouble, and I was working more hours to be able to be more self-sufficient. I started to become more withdrawn and my academics started to drop. I was an A and B student so this was very stressful to me. Thinking I was being proactive and doing the right thing, I went to my school's counseling center who then referred me to the campus clinic. The psychiatric nurse practitioner prescribed Prozac (20mg). About two weeks later I was hit with the worse anxiety I had ever had. I barely left my house unless I had to for class or work, would start shaking at random times, and had near constant chest pain. I tried to wait it out but eventually gave up and went back. She switched me to lexapro(20mg). This seemed to do the trick so I stayed on it though the end of the semester and over the summer. Unfortunately, when I started back up at school I started to struggle again. I'd tried to make positive changes in my life: made some new friends, got in contact with old ones, and started trying to date. Then, as it happens all too often in college, the guy I was seeing got me drunk and took advantage. This led to me having a bit of a breakdown and my friends urged me to go to the hospital. While there they switched me to zoloft(50mg), remeron(15mg), and lorazapam(2mg as needed). This is where things start to get really wonky. At first I thought it was helping but about a month after I got out of the hospital I started having these intense intrusive self-harm thoughts. Violent and strong enough to scare me. I had a medication review and those three were dropped and I was put on WellbutrinXL(150mg). Again things were better for a little while but about a month later started to go south. The intrusive thoughts were back and I had started to feel very unlike myself. Impulsive and disconnected. I later learned that this was probably a kind of dissociation. One night all of the stress and darkness got to me and I impulsively decided to chase the rest of my pills with half a bottle of vodka. It was strange because I wasn't trying to kill myself, the mindset was more: "I wonder what this will do. It can't be worse that what I'm already feeling." It didn't feel real, like it was happening to someone else. That put me back in the hospital where I then dropped out of college and moved back in with my parents. I had to be on a wait list but eventually I started seeing a new psychiatrist who decided to diagnose me with Bipolar based on the impulsiveness and out of character behavior I had while taking Wellbutrin. She called it agitated depression or mixed mania. At the time I believed her. I was scared, desperate, and seriously doubting my sanity, and I felt like I couldn't trust myself. She started out by prescribing me Abilify(15mg) and Effexor (75mg). This was my second nightmare. A few days later I started having akathisia and had similar feelings of impulsiveness and feeling out of control. When I told my doctor she urged me to wait it out which led to me relapsing into SI for the first time in over 6 years to cope. That combination was obviously stopped and I had the most physical withdrawal symptoms that I had so far. I couldn't leave my bed for two days I was so nauseous and dizzy. I feel like I should point out at this point that I was on most of these medications for max of a few months and didn't taper at all. Cold turkey then right on to another. Next on the list was Latuda(40mg - 60mg). My insurance ended up not really covering that one so what I ended up on as my final medication was Lithium. This was a blessing in a way because it didn't really do anything, which turns out, is what I needed. At one point I was up to 1600mg a day to control my "symptoms" which I'm now convinced was almost entirely side effects mixed with withdrawal. That dose completely destroyed my short term memory. After finally stabilizing, I had gone back to school and this was making classwork almost impossible, so after much debating the dosage was stepped down to 800mg. Finally, in the summer of 2017, I took a summer job working at a research station in the forest. After a lot of solo time hiking in nature I had an epiphany. This was the best I had felt in years and that all of my serious problems started after I sought "help." When I got back to see my doctor I told her my plan to stop taking medication. She was extremely judgemental and basically told me I'd be back when I had a relapse and just told me to tapper off with the what I had left (about a weeks worth). I'm very happy to say that she was wrong. All I've done since then is get better. I still struggle with some depression and anxiety but if that is the trade off I will gladly live with that. After a year and a half of being free of psychiatric drugs I'm surprised at the difference. On medication I was dissociating, having panic attacks, paranoia, and suicidal ideation. I felt like a complete basket case. It's terrifying to me how easy it is to get stuck in a downward spiral like that. Not ONE of the doctors or therapists that I'd seen even considered that the medication could be what was causing me to get worse and worse. They just saw worsening "symptoms" that they had to "get ahead of" and I believed it too. Now, even that the worst is over, the experience still haunts me. I feel so guilty about the way that I behaved and I have no idea how much was my fault versus the medication. I know that it was a factor but I remember making the decisions to hurt myself and destroy my life and I'm not really sure how to live with that. I have nightmares where I'm back in the worst of it feeling like I'm slowly losing my mind and I have permanent scars from the SI. I saw a new primary care doctor recently and the first thing she tried to do was get me back on mood stabilizers after seeing "bipolar" on my chart. I don't know how to get that removed or if I even can. The only people who believe me are my friends and family who saw me go from a somewhat stressed young adult to nonfunctional almost overnight. I know that this hasn't ruined my life... but it certainly feels like it sometimes. I'm sorry that anyone else had to go through this hell but I'm so, so glad that I'm not alone in this. Even now I'm not sure that I'm completely recovered. I guess time will tell.
  6. I am very sick withdrawing from Prozac after 31 years. Feeling despair no support. Multiple symptoms. Neuropathy and Despair. Four months off. I did it cold turkey. I am Determined to stay off this time after many failed attempts over the years. I always thought it was only my original condition returning. Now I know it is much more than that. I am in bed. I can’t walk or stop crying. I am mad at myself that I ever let this happen to me. I am angry with society and big pharma and the ignorance of the medical system. I can’t find anyone who even knows or understands what I am experiencing. I went to the doctor. He had not a clue. I don’t really know if I can survive this.
  7. 36year old man. Married, no kids. I've been on SSRIs for 15 years now. I've been tapering off them for 5 years. Effexor was what I took for depression, anxiety. From 2004-2014 I gradually took more and more until I got to a point where I couldn't be prescribed a higher dose (can't remember specific, will ask doctor). The plan was to get onto a different ssri, but I had to taper down to a lower dose before I could bridge with prozac. The withdrawal was awful and the more I learned about psychotropic drugs the more I wanted off completely. I have strong feelings of worthlessness and shame. I'm embarrassed to look anyone in the eye. I've exercised, meditated, changed my diet, take supplements, see a therapist, i've established a support network, cbt, affirmations, rigid self care program. Still hate myself. Still get suicidal thoughts. I want to try life with no antidepressants. Maybe that's it. I think it's actually the drugs that are keeping my depression from lifting. I hope. I've been aware of the forum for years and finally decided to post. I feel alone in this withdrawal from time to time. I haven't been to a support group in months. My phone never rings and I like it that way. I want to hide from everyone. I don't know anyone else quitting their meds. Feels like I'm losing my identity and I just don't care enough to build it back.
  8. So this whole disaster started when I was in high school. I had been recently diagnosed with ADD, and was prescribed Retalin (a form of Adderall [for you Americans], and a sh*tty one at that). Before long I started having tachycardia, lack of appetite , I was jumpy and irritated and and was not fun at all. Now, the same neurologist, (as I believe he was) who prescribed me the drug, didn't not prepare me for all of this; the bastard didn't even scheduled a follow-up appointment or something, and didn't inform that there are other drugs at this family of drugs and if I develop any of the symptoms above to an unbearable extent I should just stop and switch to another drug. But as behooves an unprofessional and cynical bastard, he didn't bother. And so, in the midst of a Math test, junior high, I had my first panic attack🤙🤙 I, of course didn't have clue of what happened to me, I seriously thought I was going to faint and thought it was just a one time thing. But of course, life had more devious plans for me than that--next test I had another one. My mother, who suffers as well, understood what was unfolding immediately, but was reluctant to say and diagnose in fear of scaring me or just misdiagnosing. I decided to to get off Retalin, (I have been taking it for almost a month), but what a surprised--the panic attacks persisted. Not only that it persisted, it expanded--it now harried me in class and other places. Then, I was told, diagnosed and referred to specialist. I started CBT with an amazing young therapist and prescribed Citolpram with the starting safe-net of some Benzos. It worked wonders! But I was now another person, much more confident, too much confident to the point of insolent and aloof even. Nothing could distress me. Panic attacks were rare, and when they visited I have managed to reduce and level them out. I finished high school, and decided to fly to Berlin before my induction to the army, (a mandatory 3 years of service in Israel). And then, it's when I remember (it may have started before), that I started sleeping 3 hours a day every early afternoon. Plus waking up was a real pain in the ass. But nontheless, I thought it was normal, that I could stop sleeping everytime I command myself to it, and that everybody's morning looked like that. It took me 2 and a half years to realize that maybe I was wrong. Now the real whirlpool of disasters began. My psychiatrist, a new one, my second one, suggested that I try Milnacipran, I don't remember her thinking about it too much, her decision was very arbitrary. No gradual weaning off the Citolpram, just "take straight away after the old one". I was beset with hellish migraines! I then tried Prozac, Cypralex and fluvoxil, every one for 3 months or so. They all were the same as the other--the fatigue persisted, and they didn't cover the anxiety to a satisfying extent. The fatigue was worsening and I decided that first time in 5 years to wean off them. I stopped Flufoxil CT, of course I didn't know what it mean "Cold Turkey" at that time, because the new Psychiatrist I was seeing didn't believe it exists. The fatigue did go away, which was reassuring, but I was mentally unstable, and suffered from debilitating acute anxiety at night before sleep. This lasted for months without end. One profound anxiety attack of a different order of magnitude made me go back to a different psychiatrist. He prescribed me with Cymbalta. Now, ladies and gentlemen, the real orchestra of diabolic dissonance is about to play! This pill, I kid you not, upon the first day of taking it has killed my libido flat! Sugar was too much to bare and life was a big numb. After two weeks it got worse, I started having crippling migraines that last for 3 hours each and made me puke my soul on each one's end. On my 22th birthday, we went to the local lake, and I suffered such a extensive migraine that I remembered the thought that I wanted to be put to sleep, comatose, for at least a year. I was seriously considering it. I came off it as well, also with no gradual tapering off, and waited until I felt clean. Although I didn't, and it was worse than the cleanse. My mental state deteriorated and I was put on Brintellix, and was promised it was a new ground breaking drug that will solve all of my problems! Even take care of my ADD. I ended taking it for 4 months or so, upping the dosage this time, thinking maybe that some of the symptoms are from the previous pill, and they will pass either way. It ruined my stomach, and made acidic as hell. They didn't. This time, I was determined to cleanse off gradually as I have seen in some forums like this. I have started reading more on the internet and trusting less the institutionalized system of Pharmacology. I am now 4 months after my last pill of Brintellix, and there is no light in the end of the tunnel. I am experiencing a plethora of symptoms that doesn't seem to go away or even abate: my stomach acidic, my brain is foggy, I suffer from light migraines through out the day. I can't concentrate, and I have horrible fatigue attacks that can't be beaten by any amount of caffeine. I am not sharp as I used to be, I suffer from panic attacks and back pain. AND IT ALL GOES AWAY ONLY BY TAKING Lorazepam, but that makes a bit disoriented and tired as well. But only on benzos , my symptoms seriously abate and I am free to live. What should I do? I CAN'T WAIT YEARS ON END LIKE THIS, I need to earn a living and continue my life which has been on hold for 5 months or so. Should I come back on the pills? will it make the symptoms go away? I don't trust any pharmacological solution to get me out of the mud. I have lost hope, and I want to get my life on track. what should I do?
  9. Hello all, I finished my 4 month benzo taper in April 2019 after 1 year of taking it as prescribed . I had developed interdose withdrawal and tolerance to benzos and didn't know what it was at the time. After finally figuring out what was going on, I figured out how to taper. I was also floxed with Cipro while in tolerance from benzos. It was absolute hell, and I can't believe it did it. Determined to be off of all medications, I started to taper off of Prozac and Mirtazapine. I went too fast initially, and now I'm really suffering. I'm going to hold until I stabilize. I would appreciate any advice from anyone else who has been polydrugged. I know I need to go slow- 10% a month. Do I finish the Prozac taper first and then work on the Mirtz? Thanks in advance for your help!!
  10. Hi, Been on Effexor 75 XR for almost 17 years. in May, 2018 I started tapering, but I think I have done it too quickly...by August I was on 37.5mg XR (after alternating 75 and 37.5) Prozac to "bridge"...December, 2018 I started taking 37.5mg every other day for 3 weeks and on Feb 8th, 2019 I went to ZERO (per dr. instructions). Memorial day weekend withdrawals hit me like a ton of bricks...high anxiety, some depression, nervousness and fatigue. I am now taking .05mg ATIVAN as needed. I take vitamin B Complex, D3, iron, probiotics, formula 303, cortisol Manager, Fish Oil, Magnesoim bisglycinate. I started taking 800 mg SAM-E last week and I have just started taking 800mg holy basil. I sleep fine at night, bust as soon as I open my eyes, I start feeling anxious. I am thinking about reinstating the 37.5mg XR tonight...is that too much? Any advice? PLEASE?????????????????????????
  11. Hey there! My name is Deanna. I'm 26 years old, and I live in Canada. Besides having depression, I'm an artist and graphic design student. I've always been a visual learner and a creative person, and now on my second run through college, I'm hoping to make art my career. I also enjoy video games and movies. I love animals; my parents have six cats that I love very much, and I look forward to adopting a dog one day. Now to get down to business. I apologize in advance for how long this is going to be. In my defence though, this is more than 15 years of mental illness history here. I've been on some form of antidepressants since the age of 9 (~2001). I was started on Effexor (which is definitely not recommended for children...) and stayed on that for several years. My first experience with tapering happened within a few years of that, under the supervision of my psychiatrist. It was great to be medication free! Most kids don't have to worry about medications, and for a while, I didn't either. After about one year though, my depression seemed to be back. So back on the medication I went. I went back to seeing that same psychiatrist for a few more years, until I was no longer considered a child, since he was a psychiatrist for kids. I didn't question the medication for a long time after that. It helped me be functional. It wasn't perfect, no, but I could get through my days. It might sound obvious now, but it took me a while to realize that a fascination with violence and serial killers wasn't normal. For several years at least, I read nothing but true crime and fictional serial killer stories. I was fascinated by them. Disturbingly, I also realized that I wanted to be like them. I would think a lot about violence, and kind of came to accept that one day, I would be a killer, and that I'd either end up dead or in prison. Not only that, but I experienced intrusive violent thoughts. I'd be standing behind my sister as she bent down to take laundry from the dryer, notice a pair of scissors on the counter, and see myself using them to hurt her. I didn't want to. But I couldn't stop that thought from happening if I tried. I remember another time one of my cats jumped onto my bed, and I noticed that from the side, a cat's eye looks a lot like a bubble. I couldn't help but picture what it might look like if I tried to pop that bubble. That one really bothered me. Of course I didn't want to hurt my sister or any other person either, but that image of hurting an animal felt especially intrusive, because I know I would never hurt an animal. After realizing how harmful thoughts like those were, I told my psychiatrist. (It's worth mentioning that between 2010 and 2013 or so, I had two different psychiatrists. Neither felt helpful, and they spent our (very quick) appointments asking a couple of questions, then prescribing a new dosage or different medication altogether, and hurrying me out of the office. One of them left the hospital where I saw him, and didn't refer me to anyone else. He basically just said he was leaving, goodbye. The other psychiatrist seemed to be open to the idea of me trying to taper off the medication again around 2013, but then did more or less the same thing; he said goodbye and went on with his life.) Over the period of a year or two, I was prescribed a few different anti-psychotics and other medications that I'm really not sure of, to try and deal with the violent thoughts. None of them seemed to help, and some of them had some awful side effects. Most of those medications did not last longer than a few doses. I was taking Risperdal for a year or so, but then that one starting having negative side effects too, so I stopped with the help of my family doctor. Thankfully, that seemed to end the intrusive violent thoughts. After this point, I had no psychiatrist. In 2013, I had a suicide attempt. Besides the homicidal thoughts, I would also experience suicidal thoughts. Most of the time I was able to resist those in much the same way as the others; I didn't want to die, so they stayed as thoughts only. I think it might've been a really bad combination of depression and my intrusive thoughts that made me actually consider hurting myself. I'd have intrusive images of stabbing myself in the stomach, and my parents finding me. It was like my depression saw those images and said "wow, good idea". One night I was feeling very low, and my dad had to physically stop me from using the knife in my hand. After that, my parents took me to the hospital and I stayed in the Mental Health Inpatient Unit for one week. That's the worst my depression has ever been. Besides this one incident, I would occasionally have passive suicidal thoughts such as "I don't deserve to be alive" or "there's no future for me", but not actually want to act on them. My dad helped me do some research on Effexor, and we didn't like the side effects we were seeing. We thought my violent thoughts might even be caused (or worsened) by the medication, so I started seeing a naturopathic doctor to begin tapering again. I used a natural supplement called TrueHope EmpowerPlus. I made it down to 0 medication, and felt pretty good for about a year before I started experiencing an eating disorder. I've always had anxiety, but over a period of a few months, I lost at least 70 lbs (I was overweight to begin with, but still) because of some serious anxiety around food. Deciding what to eat made me very uncomfortable. Not eating was easier. I also had some trust issues with food. If a food I normally enjoyed was gross one time I had it, I would decide not to eat it again. I ended up with a very limited diet. In mid-2014 I was at a point where I'd feel physically ill from being so hungry. I was weak. My parents were (understandably) very worried. I started seeing a psychiatrist at CAMH (the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health). She suggested that I go back on medication so that, at the very least, I could start eating again. She prescribed 80mg of Prozac. She also referred me to a month long inpatient program for anxiety. I did the program, which included CBT and group therapy, and made a lot of improvements with my eating disorder. After leaving the hospital, my medication and depression have since been monitored by my family doctor. Last fall, I decided I wanted to try lowering my dose. My doctor suggested I go from 80mg to 60mg, and that went fine. When I went down to 40mg, however, I started feeling depressed, assumed it was a relapse, and went back up to 60. Now I think it may have just been withdrawal caused by tapering too quickly. So I approached my doctor about tapering again last month, suggesting I go much more slowly this time, after finding survivingantidepressants.org and reading about other peoples' experiences. Right now, I'm alternating between 50mg and 60mg daily, and by the end of this week, I'll be taking 50mg every day. Each month I plan to take another step down (from 50 to 50/40, to 40, to 40/30, etc.). So far, things are going great. Since 2014, I was also taking Dexilant, for heartburn caused by the Prozac. I've managed to stop taking that medication most days (taking it only occasionally) and haven't had any problems. My biggest concern is that I'll experience withdrawal sooner or later, and I might panic and go back on my progress. I don't want that to happen this time. I'm hoping the third time really is the charm for me, and that this time, I'll be able to be medication free and actually dealing with any problems I might have, instead of taking the medication and hoping it solves everything (which it definitely doesn't). In the past, I was very lonely, socially anxious, and I kept to myself. Now, however, I'm engaged, I'm doing well in school and working towards a career that I'm passionate about, and I recently started talking to my sister again after a few years of falling out. I've also realized how toxic my mom is in my life, and I no longer live with my parents. I'm really hoping that this time, a much better environment and a better understanding of withdrawal will help me succeed 🤞 If you read all this, thank you for sticking with me until the end, and I look forward to keeping you updated ☺️
  12. Lollypops

    Lollypops

    Hi, I was on cymbalta for 7 years and previous to that I was taking Effexor for 3 years. It was very hard to withdrawal from Effexor (at 21 years old), it 6 took months of rest and klonipin to stop panic attack, brain zaps, irritability, anxiety, agoraphobia, anger, abnormal sensation in my body, dizziness, nausea.. the list goes on. I don’t remember the exact dose I was on because it was so long ago but my new psychiatrist at the time mentioned it was too high for someone with my body weight and severity of depression. The doctor said I needed to establish my routine and force myself to follow through with getting through work each day while I withdrew. Needless to say, I got passed the withdrawal but by far that was the worst I ever felt in my life. I was 29 when I came off of cymbalta( 90mg), it only took 2 months to withdrawal. I had severe mood swings and excessive hunger... I did not have any sensation issues or brain zaps. I was taking a prenatal vitamin because my husband and I were planning to have another baby (one baby came out being twins btw) I think that what made it easier to withdrawal from cymbalta was the vitamins I was on. I still remember 2 days after being off cymbalta, I was having really bad temper problems! I also suffered from memory issues and slight paranoia but it was fairly quick to get rid of those symptoms. I don’t think I mentioned this already but I suffer from major depressive disorder, fibromyalgia, and really terrible panic and anxiety disorder. I was able to successfully withdrawal from the cymbalta and Effexor with routine, vitamins, plenty of rest, and a lot of encouragement from family. I am now 35 and have been on Prozac for about 5 years. About 3 weeks ago, my psychiatrist took me off of the Prozac (60mg) cold turkey and put me on Wellbutrin. I have to say, I was feeling really good until about a week ago when I started experiencing the brain zaps, dizziness, sleepiness, frequent body pain, headaches, and vertigo. Today I started having irritability issues and feel like I am going to snap at anyone who talks to me in any sort of way that I feel is aggressive, almost like someone else is taking over!! I really hope that I am successful getting off of prozac because I almost feel like I could go off the deep end when I start to feel the irritability coming on. Personally, I think cold turkey is the wrong move for me coming off Prozac.
  13. I'm sorry if this winds up being kind of nebulous or rambled, but that's kind of how things are/feel right now. I might be in the minority here but i'm actually sort of thankful for Prozac. My OCD tendencies and anxiety were eating up a huge chunk of my life, and after starting Prozac, the tapping, counting and constant checking and rechecking stopped. I started out on 20 a little over two years ago, moved up to 30 after six or so months, then stayed at 40 until about two months ago. I'd been taking .5 mg of Ativan every few days for some sudden, terrible anxiety following an extreme panic attack. I was on it every few days two months and stopped fairly abruptly not wanting to be on it for any long period of time. Now, my Psych and I still aren't sure if it was some kind of prozac poopout or ativan withdrawal but i went through two weeks of some pretty unpleasant symptoms. Jittery to the point that i couldn't sit and do anything, no more than 4 hours of extremely uncomfortable sleep a night, zero appetite, anxiety and general lack of ability to enjoy much of anything. To elaborate a bit, i could only manage boost/ensure type meal replacements and paced *constantly* up until the point it was 2am or so, and time for my few hours of sleep. By the time i got in to see my psych i had been dealing with it for a week and she said given the low and infrequent dosage of my ativan she didn't want to reinstate , so she upped my prozac to 60mg and we decided i'd bear with what we thought might be ativan withdrawal and see if it lessened in the coming weeks . Over the next two weeks after she upped my Prozac the symptoms went away gradually and i I found some semblance of feeling semi normal, if still kind of fatigued. Seeing as how it seemed that I had "gotten lucky" by getting off Ativan before i was on it for too long and the symptoms of withdrawal were hell level severe and super long lasting, i decided it was time to get off Prozac. I still had a bunch of 40mgs leftover and just switched to taking those. This was about two weeks ago and about 4 days after doing so i started to experience some pretty hefty fatigue, mild anxiety and decreased appetite. Unlike my last withdrawal (or whatever it was) i can sleep a full 8 hours, can sit and watch stuff, enjoy things to a degree and even force myself up to the gym. I wake up after sleep feeling pretty exhausted, but i'm able to eat and don't feel the overwhelming urge to pace. My psych is one of the ones who said it would be fine for me to taper down over the course of a month or so, but at the same time she's very accommodating if I ask to go slower with stuff, so i wont have a problem getting liquid. I guess right now my plan is to bear with this 20mg drop since its already been almost two weeks, and then try liquid and dropping 10% a month. I guess i'm here for a bit of support and maybe reassurance that even if things are protracted it will eventually end, and i will have good windows throughout the experience. Another thing i guess i'm here for is to see if anyone thinks its wise for me to reinstate back to 60 and taper at 10% from that point. The symptoms i have now aren't unbearable, but they for sure aren't a good time. Side note: I'm also on TRT because tests showed that my body wasn't making enough of it naturally. I get pretty frequent blood work for it and both my estrogen and testosterone levels are in the green as of yesterdays blood work.
  14. hello i was on prozac for 6.5 years with addition of effexor, welbutrin and geodon for breif times. i am 2.5 years off and still in withdrawal. i was prescribed the meds for physical illness after getting epstein bar virus. the prozac, effexor and welbutrin were used for stimulant effects. the geodon was used to combat the side effects of the other meds.( like taking a downer to take edge oof of the uppers).i did not have mental illness before this i now dont know how much of the way i feel is from epsten bar virus? or if i recovered from the virus? is what i am feeling from med withdrawals. the only thing i do know is i have extreme anxiety, insomnia and akathesia now and i NEVER had this problem before the meds. i just dont know how much of my flu like symptoms/ feeling like i have a hang over is from the med withdrawal? anyone with expierence please let me know? i also get a lot of joint cracking and popping sounds. anyone else get this? does anyone feel flu like symptoms get worse after exercise. thanks for any info
  15. Hello, I am 63 and past ready to give my 25-year use of Prozac the boot. I did stop way back for a couple of years, I don't recall any major WD. I've tried several times since but the irritability is overwhelming, for me and my husband. I started on 20mg and have taken as much as 80mg, presently taking 40mg. I have had never tapered, wasn't aware I needed to. I did wean a 25-year addiction to Xanax a couple of years ago and am finally starting to learn how to sleep again. I would appreciate a plan I can work with. I also have hypothyroidism and adrenal issues which can exasperate my the symptoms of irritability. Thanks for your time and help, Robyn22
  16. Hi, my teen has been on Prozac 7 months. On 40mg for 9weeks. Before that she was on Zoloft for 5 months. So a total of a year on a SSRI. She is being tapered off prozac. She has been on 35mg for close to 4 weeks with no withdrawal problems. Her psychiatrist said to taper and be off in 6 weeks. I felt that was too fast. One site I was on had her tapering and getting off close to 2 years. Want to taper her so she has as few problems as possible.
  17. Hi everyone, this is my first time posting here, hope that I am doing everything correctly. I am recovering from fluoxetine (Prozac), I took it for about 8 months and I have been off it for about 3 months now. I have searched a lot on the internet and this forum but I was not able to find anyone who suffers from similar issues, so I was hoping for some kind of support from here Every morning, I wake up with horrible anxiety and a feeling of "depersonalization", it is kind of like sitting in the back of your head and having some kind of tunnel vision. Apathy is a big part of it and there is a weird feeling of having to supress a panic attack at any moment. The weird thing about it is that this feeling goes away in the afternoon and I feel completely fine the entire evening until I wake up the next day. I think this might be related to cortisol levels rising in the morning but I am not sure. Does anyone have similar experiences or tips to share with me? Thank you so much
  18. Hello, I'm still new to this site and apologize if I made a mistake that could get me banned by instantly starting a topic but I was too mentally drained to even read the description, I'm really desperate to get answers that will shed light onto my own case of what I assume to be withdrawal and hope administrators won't take offense in it. I was previously preparing this text so excuse if the start sounds somewhat artificial as followed up by this part of the text, I don't feel like re-editing it. Now, would you consider it out of the ordinary that I didn't feel any withdrawal symptoms the first two years after I quit medication? I heard it is not uncommon for antipsychotics (in my case risperidone 1mg) to have more bizarre withdrawal effects than other psychiatric drugs. All this just invokes worry in me that I might be severely mentally ill instead of merely going through the necessary withdrawal process. In respect to that are details that I find important to stress out as far as my own situation is concerned, one such would be that I can't clearly tell when my symptoms started, as if not knowing when they will end wasn't scary enough, some I can even recall as far back when I quit therapy. And they don't appear to be too problematic, at least not as much as people describe theirs (although still profoundly debilitating and present with almost all describing symptoms in the book including occasional physical pains, but I still feel like most of you go through worse than me as I can be surprisingly functional on certain days, of course I might also be wrong and projecting a humble vital mindset since I know complaining won't help me any further). Another thing to note is that I was compelled to quit cold turkey due to the risperidone having caused severe internal organ damage in the form of pancreatitis, and during my stay on it I was completely deprived from the other medication I was taking, prozac to be exact, in an amount of 20mg, all as instructed by my doctor, without any tapering process. And the first few weeks of therapy my dose was rashly decreased from 1.5mg to 1mg risperidone. Other important details concerning my medical history include infrequent xanax consumption as monitored by my mom and whenever I felt the need for it (which actually didn't impact me negatively and even helped), an attempt at suicide by overdosing with an unknown substance (it's really the hypnotic effects of risperidone to blame so don't judge me please, I woke up the next day after 16 hours of sleep without side effects so it couldn't be that fatal), frequent alcohol and marijuana consumption for several months to make the effects of risperidone more bearable, and later recreative drug use when I was already off and determined to celebrate my newly acquired health (especially morning glory seeds in case that information is of any significance, I even think the first dissociation symptoms were triggered by them but that was still a year prior to when the withdrawal symptoms truly started kicking in, in the sense of turning me dysfunctional), as well as the fact that I spent the previous year starving myself due to poor appetite as I had no clue what was wrong with me and that withdrawal syndrome does it (which probably already stunted my health development enough). Please also note that I was completely straight edge before these medicines, I don't want you to get a wrong of me as the type drug abuser who has himself to blame for ruining his life, everyone deserves a second chance and you should know yourself how heavy these medications are, they required certain measures of escapism and relief which I rediscovered in recreative drugs as they partially helped me regain my cognitive processes and fight off the continuous inner turmoil of being trapped in your own body. I deeply hope all this has left no incurable permanent brain damage and that there's still hope to start life anew in spite of all the mistakes I've made in the past 5 years and truly paid them and even have to carry them with me up to this day, I'm only 20 years old and already have to pay such burdensome consequences for my past actions. Looking back at all that I think I would have rather died from sepsis than spend any more time on these demonic medicines. Medications that I felt so horrible on for the entire time I was taking them couldn't be any good for me, all the while I was too restrained by the mental blockages they caused to say anything during this one-and-a-half-year stay, it's only when I was taken off that I finally felt like a happy fulfilled human being again, even in a problematic situation like the one that forced me to end them. All that being said, I'm not very informed on the topic and would be deeply thankful if someone could provide me additional information sources. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
  19. I came across this forum in the recent New Yorker article and I’m excited to connect with others going through similar experiences. I’ve been dealing with this in isolation for far too long. JAN 2019 Over the years, I’ve been put on an increasingly complex regime - see signature. At the start of the year as I understand it, the mainstays were Wellbutrin + Pristiq, augmented by Latuda. Plus Adderall to combat daytime lethargy. I wasn’t satisfied: 1) I don’t like being on so many meds. I felt a personal stigma, plus I’m scientifically trained. Surely this was too many variables in terms of optimizing further. 2) I was still suffering from evening lethargy, basically crashing out around 8-9pm which was impacting my relationship and family. 5mg Adderall and a coffee at 7pm, and I could still pass out an hour later. WHERE I AM NOW: STREAMLINING MY REGIME This year, I’m working to simplify the regime with my psych. Immediate goals - taper Pristiq, stop Latuda. 2019 goal - reduce to two or three meds. To taper the Pristiq, we added 10mg Prozac. We also added Abilify to replace the Latuda, which I hope to discontinue soon. So I went from 4 meds to 6, hoping this makes sense. The Pristiq tapering has been a real journey - The hardest phase was when I was taking 50mg every 2 days, then every 3 days. - Thanks to this forum, I read that that was a bad idea (the rollercoaster certainly felt like one), and we switched to 25mg daily. Thats where I am now. - The switch from 50 mg every 3 days -> 25mg daily surprised me by being the hardest transition in terms of depressive symptoms. This was combined with a foot injury which meant I couldn’t exercise much. When it rains, it pours! Would love to hear your thoughts on any of the above. Stay strong.
  20. I'm on 2000 mgs of Valproate, 30 mgs of Prozac and 10 mgs of Abilify daily. I'm starting my taper with the Prozac first (the Accelerant). I won't taper the Abilify (the Brake) until after I'm off the Prozac (in October 2021). In the meantime, is it safe to taper off the Valproate at the same time as the Prozac? According to my schedule, I'll be off both the Valproate and the Abilify by March, 2023. If I taper each drug sequentially, I'll be at this until I'm 75. I want to get my joy back while I'm still able to enjoy it.
  21. I was diagnosed bipolar II in 1999, when I was 45. I was put on Bupropion first, then switched to a cocktail of 2000 mg of Valproic Acid (Valproate), a mood stabilizer, 30 mg of Prozac and 10 mg of Stelazine. The Stelazine was swapped out for 10 mg of Abilify in 2014. So now I'm 65 I've been taking a heavy duty cocktail for 20 years. As a retirement present, I'd like to try withdrawing and rediscovering my bliss. Is this dangerous? Not just the withdrawal, but, afterwards? Am I going to turn into a crazy old man? Go on shopping sprees? I've had prostate treatment, so I'm post sexual, that behavioural pattern isn't available, but I'm relatively well off, I could spend my brains out? Will this happen?
  22. Hello, I am new to the board. I am a 39 year old female, about a month completely off Prozac after taking 20 mg off and on (mostly on) for 20 years. I tapered at the advice of my doctor way too quickly (know that now, wish I knew it then!) over a 2 month period and have been suffering myraid symptoms over the past month that come and go: - headache - dizziness/lightheadedness - brain fog/memory issues - blurred vision - fatigue - irritability/mood swings I am taking Omega-3 and b-complex vitamins, also started using a CES machine this week, which I definitely feel like has helped with the emotional symptoms and maybe even some of the physical symptoms. The symptoms that are really persisting and making it difficult to function at work and home is the dizziness, headache and brain fog. I am even considering reinstating a small dose of prozac (say, 5 mg?) and tapering super slowly off that (5-10% every 4-6 weeks) as long as it takes to do it and allow my brain to adjust without all these terrible symptoms. Does anyone have any suggestions or words of advice? Would you recommend reinstatement or should I tough it out cause I have gotten this far? I know reinstatement doesn't work for everyone too, which makes me nervous. Thank you so much for your help!
  23. Hi all, I am so glad I found this site. I am dealing with what I now know is ssri withdrawal and this place has given me hope, knowledge, and peace of mind. It’s crazy what these drugs can do. To start, I will give you my story. Looking back, I grew up with low self esteem and emotional issues that I never faced. Through school and going into college, I still managed to adjust well, make friends, and didn’t have especially bad anxiety or anything. In high school and college I abused alcohol frequently, probably due to emotional distress. I never was addicted, but was a binge drinker. In my 2nd year of college, even drinking became stressful and not fun. I began to have a lot of social anxiety, and couldn’t handle any alcohol. Depression started to set in, and I was in denial for a long time. Because of this, I let it get worse, I let people hurt me, and I ended up in the ER because I realized I couldn’t function and was suicidal. There they decided to send me to an outpatient treatment facility, and there my medication history began. I first was given seetraline, then Effexor, neither for longer than a week. The side effects were too much. So the doc deicided to try Prozac with me. That one seemed to have me feeling better, so I stayed on that for the time being. Started at 20mg around May 2017, 40mg for a few months, then 60mg for a long duration. I was only at this outpatient thing for a couple months, then I started seeing a new doctor. She basically just kept giving me the Prozac, and I’d just say I’m fine. I guess I felt fine, but I was more or less a zombie that just went to work and slept. The thing is though that Prozac is what lifted me out of the horrible depression I was in, and helped my anxiety. I thought of it as miraculous. The one thing that made it a lot less miraculous was that I gained nearly 100 pounds in a year! This prompted my doctor to lower my dose to 40mg, which made me realize how much Prozac dulled me out. I felt so much more awake and clear headed, so I figured I should get off the meds totally! It’ll only be good news, or so I thought. So I went down to 20mg a couple months later around November 2018. Afterwards is when withdrawal started to hit. I really noticed it while visiting family for Christmas. I just wasn’t myself. The anxiety was back in full force, and that was enough to hinder my social ability. It sucks to think family members see me like that and don’t know what’s going on, that maybe they just think I’m mentally ill. Oh well. I went down to 10mg in February, and jumped clear off in March. I now know this was far to fast of a taper, but I didn’t know this at the time. My doctor obviously didn’t either, but she probably also thinks Prozac doesn’t give people withdrawals. Once at 10mg I started to have the very sever symptoms. Extreme anxiety, irritability, anger, sensitivity to movement light and sounds, depersonalization, tightness in chest and neck, paranoia, numbness, and headaches (sometimes long lasting). Once I went to 0 they got a little worse for a bit, and it was gradually improved since then. I’ve only been totally off the Prozac for about a month right now. My god has it improved since a month ago! I still wouldn’t say I’m doing well by any means but I at least feel kind of normal. I felt like everybody was staring at me when I went outside or drove around at first (still kind of do sometimes), so much so that I just felt overwhelmed and crazy. I quit my job, not super important since it was just a silly job to pay rent. All I can really say about the symptoms is that they are still there, and it feels like they’ve been gradually receding ever so slowly. I seem to have the windows and waves, but mine have been short, maybe only hour long windows sometimes. I just pray that I will not only feel normal again but find real happiness and relief. I’m currently taking D3 and fish oil daily, nothing else. Does anyone have any advice about those supplements and others I could try? That would be great. I’m also just wondering if my story sounds familiar to anyone and what to expect. But most of all, it’s just nice to get this all out. Feel free to ask me questions!
  24. Want2Want2

    Want2Want2: hello

    Hi yall, So much to say, but little time now. Will be back w/more info soon. Glad to be here. Currently struggling with ongoing apathy, indifference, just-not-caring, from initial (and fairly immediate) introduction of Zoloft in 2013. It has persisted since then whether on or off medication, although it IS dose dependent w/Prozac. Reading this forum has been instrumental in my previous tapering but only now have I created an account. So thanks to all, especially Altostrata. I know there are much more difficult symptoms, as I've had many of them in the past, but this indifference seems to have completely (permanently?) changed my personality. Preparing to discontinue current doses of 10mg Prozac and 150mg Wellbutrin, beginning in April.
  25. Hello everyone! I’m on my last leg of tapering right now at 2.5 mg of Prozac and boy does that small dose of 2.5 mg make a difference! I’ll give you all some background information about me and my history with SSRI’s and just overall tell my story so to speak. I’m currently 19 years old attending university (I had to drop out last semester because of the withdrawal from tapering, but I’m back at it!). The first SSRI I ever took was sertraline (Zoloft) at 50 mg for social anxiety and subsequently depression. I think I was thirteen at the time. It pains me to think back to that little boy and how much pain he was in. The sertraline helped a bit. My mother noticed a change in me more than I did. After only a couple of months however, I started to experience some emotional blunting. I didn’t know what it was at the time, I just knew I felt flat. We told our family doctor and he agreed that I should stop taking it. I did not taper and I did not experience any withdrawal. The next couple of years I don’t think I took any SSRI’s. I was still depressed and socially anxious at times, but I made a promise to myself that I would make a serious effort to make friends. It was my first real effort at exposure therapy and I did it all by myself. It wasn’t until I was sixteen that my obsessive rumination eventually became too strong for me to handle. It was then that I began taking 20 mg of Prozac. I can’t remember when I started. Most likely between August 2015 to December 2015. I do remember however that I did not have any notable side effects. I still felt the full range of emotions and my sexuality functioned like clockwork. In May 2016, my obsessive thinking got worse due in part to a rejection from a girl I liked. I began to believe that the Prozac wasn’t doing anything, so I went to a doctor and he switched me onto 20 mg of Paxil. It would be later on in the summer of 2016 that I would see a psychiatrist. I complained of extreme lethargy and often times couldnt sleep until four in the morning so he prescribed Wellbutrin at 150 mg and some Trazodone that I would take as needed. The Trazodone effectively zombified me so I avoided it often. (Side note: eventually I mentioned the Trazodone to this druggy kid in my creative writing class. He was literally on acid at the time and he said, “You take Trazodone?! Dude I used to snort that stuff. Don’t **** with that ****.”😂) Over time I stopped believing the Paxil or Wellbutrin had any effect on me. I even started to believe they might be a placebo at the time. I did however notice that I was becoming extremely angry all the time, something completely unlike myself. It was as if the only thing the pills had done was replace my depression with anger. I could also cry at a moments notice. I remember my family and I visited the freedom tower memorial in NY and it took everything in me not to burst out into tears. Because of the anger and my belief the pills were placebos, I eventually decided to stop both the Paxil and Wellbutrin cold turkey. This was in December 2016. I didnt have any notable withdrawal symptoms. No brain zaps or physical problems. My sexuality functioned as it always had. My depression however began to amplify. Sometimes, knowing what I know now, I wonder if this extreme depression was induced partly from withdrawal. It was stronger than any I’d previously had. I was constantly ruminating. I couldn’t sit still for a second without being uncomfortable and anxious. My mind was constantly replaying loops of embarrassing things I had done. Often times I would wake up in the middle of the night with an embarrassing memory and then spend the rest of the night in terror as it played over and over in my head. When I went to school, I felt paranoid. I absolutely hated myself. It is important to note however that I was not suicidal. Eventually I gave up. It took two week of me not going to school or even leaving my room for that matter for my parents to decide what to do with me. Eventually my mom found a treatment center for OCD and anxiety. I was skeptical at first. I had seen therapists in the past. They were well meaning, but they had little impact on my depression. We made an appointment with the director of the clinic. When she first walked in I expected nothing. She was very direct and got right to the point telling me that she might be able to help me or she might not. Either way it would be up to me to put in the effort. I agreed to do their intensive outpatient program. For three hours every day I would be exposed to my deepest fears. Initially she suggested medication, however I refused because of my bad experience on Paxil and Wellbutrin. After a month of IOP however, I still wasn’t getting better. Eventually I caved in. I was desperate. I went to the doctor and he prescribed 40 mg of Prozac and 25 mg of lamictal. When I began taking the Prozac at 20 mg, my mood lifted immediately. For the first time in forever my onslaught of obsessive thought began to abate. Suddenly I was convinced these pills weren’t placebo. I worked up to 40 mg and quickly graduated from the IOP. There were no side effects. I still had a considerable range of emotion and my sexuality worked just fine. But then the Prozac pooped out on me in December of 2017. By then I was beginning to feel depressed again. This should have been a warning that this med wasn’t a long term solution, but I was oblivious to the side effects at the time. I made my way up to 60 mg for a month and then eventually 80 mg in February 2018, the maximum dose. This dose was effective. My depression ceased almost instantly. It wasn’t until around June 2018 on 80 mg that I began to notice some strange things happening. At first I didn’t realize they were due to the Prozac. I began to have these odd states where my thinking was clouded, almost like my brain was fried. It was difficult to form words, and I often felt no emotion whatsoever in these states, but it would go away after a good night sleep, so I didn’t think too much of it. Then I met a girl and began dating her. I quickly noticed that I simply couldn’t fall in love with her, despite the fact that we got along together great and she was beautiful. All my romantic feelings we’re muted compared to what I had felt before. And then my dog ran away. At the time I knew I should be sad, but I couldn’t muster up the emotion. It was like I had to sneeze but the sneeze wouldn’t come. The sadness was almost there, I just couldn’t experience it fully. It was around this same time that I realized that my interest in sex was beginning to dwindle. Because of these things I realized I need to make a change. I began taking two 40 mg pills every other day and then two pills on the rest of the days. This was in the beginning of August 2018. My goal was to get to 40 mg. I did not have any significant withdrawal issues. In fact, initially, my sex drive increased. What did happen is that my depression returned. Because of this my doctor prescribed Wellbutrin at 150 mg. I had to stop taking it because I became extremely suicidal. Every waking thought revolved around me killing myself. I was anxious and irritable and definitely had the energy to do carry out my plans. Thankfully, I stopped taking the Wellbutrin after a week and these thoughts went away. It was this experience that convinced me how harmful these meds can be. Unfortunately I did not know how to taper properly and went way too fast with decreases of 20 mg every 2 weeks. Eventually I got to zero for a couple days but my therapist convinced me to stay on them. Stupidly I jumped all the way back up to 40 mg. But then after two weeks I decided once again that I needed to get off them. I did not know I was playing with fire. Once again I went super fast. When I made it to zero this time however, new symptoms began to hit. I got what I realize now is akathisia. If I tried to read my brain couldn’t form the words into sentences. I began sleeping very little. Most disconcerting, my penis had shriveled up and gotten freezing cold and I stopped getting nocturnal erections(morning wood). It was this that caused me to reinstate my taper after only four days at 0 mg. I went back up to 40 mg over two weeks and my sexual functioning more or less returned. My sex drive however did not. By then I knew what I was really in for. After that I began to taper much slower. This was probably stupid, but I would cut the pills in half and estimate the amount of powder I would take. I did this until December 2018 and made it to 10 mg. Then I got pills that I could cut into smaller pieces and bought a scale and I have been using this method ever since. Throughout the taper, emotional anesthesia arose as a prominent symptom. My sexuality is no longer similar to pre drug levels or even similar to what it was while I was on the drug. It has definitely gotten worse as I’ve decreased the drug. However, so far it seems that after each time I have decreased my dose, my ability to maintain an erection would vanish and then more or less reappear after a couple weeks. Currently I am at 2.5mg! 🎉The akathisia has mostly abated (although I’m sure it’ll come back once I’m fully off the drug) I feel emotionally numb all the time. I feel like I have lost my identity and have no access to my memories. I remember them but I feel nothing when I do. Listening to music is pointless. I no longer play my guitar. My erections are fickle, and I have no sex drive at all. I do still have feeling in my penis, so I am not dealing with genital anesthesia. The closer I get to zero however, the less my penis functions. I even went down to about 0.5 mg and my penis went cold like the time I went to 0 mg a couple months ago. It seems the blood flow returned when I went back to 2.5 yesterday; however, my penis head has these odd striations on it. I am afraid of developing genital anathesis post taper. For those who had genital anesthesia, when did this symptom appear for you? My fear is that the lack of blood supply and lack of erections will lead to nerve atrophy in my penis. For this reason I am taking the rest of my taper even slower than initially planned. As long as my penis doesn’t get cold, I will continue to taper. I have also turned my diet around and cut out sugar and gluten. I want to exercise but this seems to trigger the akathisia so I’ve put it on hold. Im against all supplements as I’ve had bad experienced with them. One thing this site taught me is how cautious I have to be so that my nervous system can heal. Does anyone have any advice for me? Do you think because I haven’t experienced physical symptoms (yet at least) like nausea or muscle pain or even brain zaps that I’ll be able to heal fairly quickly? Or will these effects most likely simply appear once I’m finally off the drug. Prozac does have a long half life after all. What do you guys think? Im also wondering when (or if) my emotions will return post taper. For those who have regained the full range of emotions, were you able to look back at emotional memories and feel what you felt in that moment? Does music sound good again? Lastly, when can I expect symptoms of nueroemotions? I’m actually looking forward to this symptoms as it will mean my emotions are returning and that I don’t have permanent damage. Thank you if you took the time to read this, and sorry if it’s a little long. (p.s. Altostrata if you read this thank you for everything you have done. I’ve spent the past month browsing this site on and off and the level of charity you display is phenomenal. Thank you!)
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