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  1. I don't know how to put the medication history as a tag, so I guess I'll just put it at the end. Hi everyone! So, I started on 3/21/19 with the Bupropion and Risperidone after being hospitalized for suicidal ideation. I had been resigned for some time because of difficult changes that had been going on in my life socially for the past year, and I was responding angrily and with frustration (internally) until I was pushed to the limit. After hospitalization, I’ve had some transformative thinking around how I interact with people socially, which has led me to an ease with the situation that I hadn’t known before I was hospitalized. I still struggled with social interaction but I am much better and not feeling overwhelmed by my situation as I once was. Although the initial usage of Bupropion and Risperidone I had trouble sleeping the first week, everything seemed fine after that. I had some flare ups of anger, but I was working through it and seeing my psychologist twice a week. In May, my psychiatrist saw that Risperidone was elevating my hormone levels, and he wanted me off of it. I started taking Abilify as a substitute in July. Towards the end of July, the panic-like symptoms I would get from just sitting still was too much for me. I went off of it. He then put me on Latuda. I was on for two days and still had similar effects and I couldn’t sleep. I came off of it, all the while having a lot of withdrawal symptoms- profuse sweating, getting hot, panic. I still couldn’t sleep. I started supplementing with benadryl (at the suggestion of the nurse for withdrawal) then later melatonin. After talking to my psychologist, she suggested that I may have insomnia from the actual Bupropion. Because Risperidone makes some people groggy, what she thought was that the Risperidone masked the activating effect of Bupropion. After I stopped taking the Risperidone, the Bupropion was keeping me awake. She had several clients that had to switch to something else because of the Bupropion keeping them awake. So, I quit cold turkey on the Bupropion, and similarly all the other drugs. I guess my psychiatrist didn’t think I needed to taper from the Risperidone because I had only been on it for 3 months. I thought all was well, but I now have these rushes of anxiety that come over me for around 10-20 minutes at a time. It started after I dropped the Latuda, I believe I was having them even before the Bupropion was dropped but hadn’t noticed a pattern of getting them until the Bupropion was dropped. I get a few (5 or 6) rushes a day. When the rush is over, I'm still usually uneasy for a bit of time after that. I also have some light depression in the mornings, but that has dropped off. The possibility of the anxiety rushes usually stop after 6-7pm at night now (this is a newer development). I go to bed around 10-11pm, so now I can this period the “golden hours” where I feel completely myself and don’t feel like the onset of either a depression tinge or an anxiety rush will happen. So, it’s been technically a little over a month since I CT’d Bupropion and two months since I CT’d the Risperidone. I took both medications from 3/21-7/1 and only Bupropion (and Abilify) from 7/1-8/10. So total I was on medication for about 4 months. What do you think? Will the anxiety rushes fall away? When I am outside of them, I definitely think I can handle this, but when I am getting washes of them, I feel hopeless like it is not going to end. It is unlike anything I ever experienced before taking medication. I would get anxious from various scenarios in the past, but not this random, involuntary rush that occurs for no reason. I look to the writings on here about neuroplasticity (I am 44 years old) and how healing happens every day with building new neural pathways not that I’m off of everything, but I am scared that I am doing this for nothing. Also, I did everything CT, so how does that impact my withdrawal? Thanks for reading, Armorall 3/21/19 started Bupropion XL 150 mg 3/21/19 started Risperidone 2mg 7/7/19 start Abilify half dose 5 mg. discontinue Risperidone 7/9/19 full dose Abilify 10 mg 7/29/19 discontinued Abilify due to panicky side effects 8/2/19 Began Latuda 20 mg 8/5/19 discontinued Latuda due to similar side effects 8/10/19 discontinued Bupropion after realizing it was causing the insomnia From 8/10/19 no drugs whatsoever Withdrawal symptoms coming in and more acute in September
  2. Hello, new member here, hoping to find some wisdom and support in my post medicated life! My medication history in a nutshell: I have been on antidepressants around 15 years, most of them lived on a combination of progressive Citalopram doses (10-40 mg), Bupropion 150XR, and Lorazepam 0.5 mg for occasional anxiety management. Began taper 6-1-2020 of Citalopram, completed 8-15-2020. Went off Bupropion 10-1-2020, did not taper due to extended release and significantly lower doses not readily available. Lorazepam was not used frequently enough to require and sort of cessation plan. The Citalopram taper was rough, as usual, something I tried and failed many, many, years ago. However, I did not get brain zaps this time, I think it was due to the effect of the Bupropion, which is good as a support drug for tapering (i.e. it is used to help quit smoking). The only current medication I am taking is a 24 hour antihistamine, Zyrtec 10 mg one time a day, before bed. Why taper off, why now? I am currently unemployed, thanks to COVID, so have some time to ride this thing out and see if I can get healthy and free of the medications. I had been dealing with a lot of side effects of the drugs, kind of a laundry list of the normal side effects for these drugs, but here is a list of the primary ones I was dealing with. Kind of difficult to nail this all down, been on this stuff a LONG time. Agitation/Irritability Decrease in sexual desire or ability GI problems, constipation, semen leakage during bowel movements Dry mouth/increased thirst increase in the frequency of urination lack of emotion Tiredness/Drowsiness/lethargy/Yawning Restlessness, twitching. Weight gain Why am I here? I am off of the meds, but have dealt with a fair bit of discontinuation syndrome. Have any of you found anything that helps you get through the next few months/years after discontinuation? I am not super big on supplements, but open to logical ideas based in science or real life experience. I have a relative who takes a handful of expensive supplements daily, I am not going down that route as I don't believe in flushing expensive pee down the toilet. I currently take NOTHING other than the allergy pill. No vitamins, no caffeine, little to no alcohol, no nicotine, etc. My primary issues at present are that I am sleeping a lot, lack ambition and energy to do things even though I have the desire to work or take on projects. I do have some anxiety presently, very manageable at home but more difficult in a work environment--it is situational. Once I start on something, and I get engaged in it, I have no problem staying focused and completing it. The daily grind of just being alive and present is difficult, I have occasional, mild, suicidal thoughts such as questioning if it is all worth the effort. That said, I have never attempted suicide and would say I am at very low risk, but my mind can wander there or identify with musicians or artists who address the subject (i.e. 13 Reasons Why). What next? I have an appointment with my doctor in a few days, the first since I completed the taper, I talked it all through with her before the taper, but it went so well that I have not had intermediate appointments. Part of the reason for not having more appointments, during my taper, was the feeling that there really is nothing she can do to make it any better. The taper also went very well, in my opinion. I still feel that the doctors are limited in what support they can give you, other than going back on the meds, what are my options in seeing an MD? Some of my side effects are getting much better now, for example I noticed my dry mouth issues are gone and I have been more regular as far at GI issues!
  3. HI Gridley, I have had this anhedonia like condition , when i was on SSRI, then my doc changed it to SNRI and Bupropion , it reduced some of the anhedonia like condition....However not recoverred completely.I read on research paper that dopamine agonist receptor are required for it to treat...So my doctor started Promipex 0.25 .....It helped ....I am on tapering currently for Dulexetine and bupropion..How to do it? WHat more needed for this anhedonia to lapse as this is taking heavy toll on my learning , happiness, social sphere.
  4. Hello, I've been very grateful for this site, comforting me in the knowledge that I'm not alone in my battle. 10% taper is working slowly but steadily, it'll be a while but I'm planning on finishing it this way. Withdrawal is not pleasant, but it doesn't suck as much as it did. Eating healthy (I got a really nice juicer) has been the biggest factor in helping manage my withdrawal symptoms, and mental wellbeing in general. Thanks for all of your stories, omnispan
  5. Hi, I have been taking bupropion 100 sr one tablet daily for the past two weeks. I have had some of the worst possible symptoms, including severe chest pain and tearing pain in my upper back that took me to my doctor who did not think is serious but I know in my body that the medicine is doing something to my heart and liver because I've never experienced this kind of pain before. Question: can I stop bupropion 100 sr cold turkey after being on it for two weeks or do I need to tamper the dosage? Thank you! Pyotr
  6. I'm a 27 year old female and I was prescribed to Wellbutrin a year and a half ago. I had never taken any type of psychiatric medication previous to this, and was prescribed to Wellbutrin by a physician that insisted it would help with the depressive symptoms that I was experiencing due to a generalized anxiety disorder (GAD). My primary disorder at the time was GAD, and the only reason that I was experiencing depressive symptoms, is because of the change in my demeanor since becoming constantly worried about the possibility of having an anxiety attack in any social situation. The first time that I went to see a general practitioner about my general anxiety disorder, she immediately wrote me a prescription for Prozac, I took the medication a grand total of three days before having a pretty bad car accident while driving my brother to school. I went back to the doctor and she decided that it would be better if I tried going the antidepressant route. At the time I started Wellbutrin I was in my first semester of graduate school and the effects of Wellbutrin were welcome. I was able to concentrate better than ever before, and was getting all A's in school. It went this way for a little over a year, until 3 months ago when I started seeing a return of my panic attacks. I went back to the doctor and she told me that it sounded like I was building up a resistance to the dosage of medication that I was taking. I was taking a once daily immediate release dosage of 75 mg of Wellbutrin at the time and she decided it would be a good idea to up my dosage to 100 mg of sustained release in order to get me back to a base line. I went home with the medication and thought about what the up dosage meant. I had a lot to consider... I didn't want to be dependent on the medication for the rest of my life. Especially since I was taking an antidepressant medication when I didn't even actually have depression. That day I decided that I was going to quit the medication altogether.. without my doctor’s consent… I had NO IDEA how bad of an idea that would turn out to be. Fast forward to a week and a half after trying to quit wellbutrin cold turkey and I was a COMPLETE DISASTER. I was experiencing suicidal ideation (the first time I’d ever had ANY thoughts like this), MAJOR anhedonia, memory issues and extreme fatigue. I went back to my doctor to get help, because I was scared of what I was going to do. Long story short, she ended up putting me on the Wellbutrin SR 100 mg anyways so that I could level out before I started my taper process. I took the 100 mg SR every day for about 2 weeks and was having some really uncomfortable side effects. So I decided it was time for me to start weening myself off of it. I took the 100 mg SR every other day for two weeks and then every two days for another two weeks, so all in all I tapered off of the medication over a month. I know now that this was WAY too fast, but it’s too late for me to try to go back on it for a slower taper. I’m just wondering if anyone else has a similar story to mine, that can tell me what kind of recovery timeline I’m looking at. I’m experiencing some pretty sever anhedonia and memory/concentration issues that present themselves in waves.
  7. I started Prozac in 1989 for depression--several life events and working rotating shifts caught up with me. Took off and on, then solidly after adoption of our first daughter in 1999...my doctor told me to when I went in for strep throat and at his inquiry, told him I was tired. Gradually became more tired and developed muscle pains..diagnosed with fibromyalgia in 2003. In 2006, became depressed (still functioning). 3/2006 Exchanged Prozac for Cymbalta. 3 months later had what the pdoc called "mania, hypomania or whatever." So not sleeping. Stopped Cymbalta, added oxazepam, had reactions to Seroquel and Abilify. Started Zyprexa. Became progressively more depressed and anxious...supposedly the downswing of mania. Added Lithium in Nov. 2006 and started to improve, added Wellbutrin for depression about 1/2007. Better, but still so tired. Added Adderall...it made me a little manic, so changed to alternating Adderall and Nuvigil (you can tell I had good insurance, huh). So at my height of polypharmacy was taking Zyprexa, Lithium, Wellbutrin, oxazepam, Adderall, and Nuvigil. Still working, mom to 2 girls and bitchy wife. Heard radio program about how hard it is to detect obstructive sleep apnea. (I strongly recommend you research this if you snore) My longest breathing pause in the sleep study was 90 seconds! Got CPAP machine...felt like a new person. With minimal ado, stopped oxazepam, Adderall and Nuvigil. Asked pdoc if I could try to wean off Zyprexa due to cost (new insurance) and how well I was feeling. Probably started in Sept., finished 12/29/12. Lots of symptoms with each dose reduction...pdoc said it doesn't have withdrawal symptoms, so started surfing, and here I am. My question: I restarted oxazepam 30 mg at bedtime on 12/10/12 (had to come through for Christmas, you know, despite the symptoms). Since I've been on the oxazepam such a short time, should I wean off it or the Wellbutrin next? I have minor anxiety in the evenings after the dose completely wears off. My other meds are lithium 600mg twice daily and Wellbutrin XL 300 mg. Thank you for such an amazing site! Meimeiquest
  8. I decided I didn't want to continue taking anti depressants anymore, I always intended to take them short term. I live in Alabama currently and the mental health programs out here are pretty terrible, I can't get an actual psychiatrist, I've had my doctor mess up my rx several times and I just want to be done with it. I have noticed that I have been dealing with the blurry vision up close issue for about two weeks now and it's a little worrisome. My dr after I asked to taper off suggested I cut the 150 mg XL in half and take half a day and then in two weeks to do every other day for a month. I tried that for a few days and felt REALLY irritable towards the end of the day. I was dragging and had low energy and fatigue. I did some research came across the forum and decided to take matters into my own hands. A while back when my dr messed up my rx I was prescribed bupropion 100 mg, I have about two months worth of that. I cut those in half and been doing the half of XL (75mg) and then the half of the regular bupropion (50mg) six hours later it helped for a couple days but now I find myself fatigued in the middle of the day and the blurry vision has returned. I don't normally eat a lot throughout the day due to a low appetite. I don't know if my issues is due to the lower dosage, which isn't a significant jump, 150mg to 125mg. Perhaps I need to increase back up? or will I adjust in a few days? Any advice is greatly appreciated.
  9. I want to thank everyone that is a part of Survivingantidepressants.org. Without you guys, I would have been lost or dead, by now. Every time I have had a problem, I would go to this website and read. The support here has kept me sane, especially since my husband has issues that he has to take care of and cannot relate to antidepressant withdrawal. I have no friends (do not want any friends right now) and I have no other family. Most of the time, this site and its people are all the support I get. For twenty years, I have been taking Bupropion. After 20 years of ingesting this poison, the time and situation were right for me to taper. In a year and a half, I went from 300 mg down to 100 mg: currently, I'm holding at 100-mg. It has been rough. From what I've read, Bupropion is one of the 'easier' antidepressants to get off. If so, the people who taper off of SSRIs have my total respect! I've noticed that after eating a meal, fatigue, which is almost debilitating, plagues me. After doing some research, I came across this article which I copied part of for your review, which might be the reason why I get fatigue after I eat: Your body is equipped with a natural stress-fighting mechanism called the NeuroEndoMetabolic (NEM) Stress Response system. It is an intricate network of various organs and six circuits, including the bioenergetics circuit, which functions in close coordination to help fight stress. A pair of walnut-shaped adrenal glands, located above the kidneys, are also part of the response system. During stressful situations, the NEM signals your adrenal glands to secrete the anti-stress hormone cortisol. However, when stress is constant, the adrenals can get overburdened and are no longer able to secrete adequate cortisol. This can affect the natural stress-fighting ability of your body, which can lead to adrenal fatigue. Frequently experiencing extreme fatigue along with symptoms such as low energy levels, difficulty in waking up, insomnia, brain fog, anxiety, stubborn weight gain, constipation, low concentration levels, and craving for salty and fatty food indicate signs of Adrenal Fatigue Syndrome (AFS). As the adrenals get more and more overworked with consistent stress, the result is a cortisol imbalance which can disturb the entire NEM stress response system. As the NEM connects various organs and circuits, the function of related organs is also affected. People in the advanced stages of AFS have a weak body. Everyday functions of the body and organs - including the liver, pancreas, and thyroid of the bioenergetics circuit - gradually begin to slow down. This can complicate the actions necessary for maintaining the health of the body, which in turn can trigger negative reactions such as experiencing fatigue after eating. The bioenergetics circuit of the NEM system comprises of the liver, pancreas, and thyroid. Any imbalance in this circuit can lead to mitochondrial disorder, sugar cravings, reactive hypoglycemia, catabolism, dizziness, insulin resistance, and weight gain. The pancreas and liver play key roles in the digestion process. The pancreas secretes enzymes such as trypsin, chymotrypsin, amylase, and lipase which help digest proteins, breakdown carbohydrates, and convert fat to cholesterol and fatty acids. It also helps transport glucose to tissues through the blood and helps the liver absorb glucose. A significant detoxification center of your body, the liver performs multiple crucial functions. It secretes bile, which helps in detoxification and digestion. It also helps in the metabolism of fat, protein, and carbohydrates, and it maintains a healthy level of blood glucose and various other chemicals in the body. Dysfunction of the liver or pancreas has a direct impact on the digestion process, which can contribute to fatigue after eating. Reference: Why Do You Experience Fatigue After Eating? By: Michael Lam, MD, MPH https://www.drlamcoaching.com/diet/adrenal-fatigue-diet/fatigue-after-eating/ I don't eat processed foods but only eat fresh or frozen meats and vegetables and fruits and some nuts. I have also cut back on the sugar and sweets. I discovered that my body couldn't tolerate coffee or chocolate, so I have dropped them from my diet. To lessen my fatigue, I have taken to intermediate fasting. I eat one substantial meal each a day the then drink water (with lemon or lime) throughout the day. I stop drinking water at 6-pm. I reason that I spike my cortisol after I eat, so I get that out of the way early in the day. I've noticed that when I fast like this, I have more energy throughout the day, and at night I don't get up throughout the night to relieve myself. Have other people suffered fatigue after eating and how did you solve the problem? Let me know
  10. Hi all. Found this site a few months ago. I am beginning to attempt getting off ADs and Benzo. I have been taking antidepressants for 17 years. I am 44. I do not work outside the home. My goal is to incorporate healthy activities (suggestions please) to help lessen the withdrawal symptoms. I am realistic about the amount of time it will take and hope everyone here can be a support system. I am married. Hubby is supportive, but doesn't really understand what is going with my body. I have really bad health anxiety currently. I was diagnosed with bipolar about 5 years ago and was put on lamictal 200mg. Wellbutrin was added shortly after. I tapered of Zoloft over about 18 months. I had my first anxiety attack exactly 2 weeks after the last dose. So we decided to stay in 25 mg. which held off the anxiety attacks since then. About 8 months ago I started having increased anxiety along with some peri menopausal symptoms. Then the health anxiety followed, probably because of all the weird symptoms I was having. I went up to 50mg on the Zoloft and taking Ativan to help me sleep. I realized I was building a tolerance to it, so I weaned myself back off and was doing fine. Then the cycle started again. New symptom (breast pain this time), then the health anxiety and back on Ativan. I only take .125mg at a time. If I don't feel much relief in about 30 minutes, I will take another one. That usually does it. Then I stop when I feel better. However a couple of weeks ago, I noticed I was having muscle twitches and jerks. Don't google that!! Now looking back I think they may be related to stopping the Ativan after taking it for several days. I really don't know. So I decided today to take a dose to see if it settles down over the next few days and go from there. 3 days ago I started a taper on the Wellbutrin 150 mg xl. My doctor wrote prescription for 100mg sr tabs...and I started taking 75 in the morning and 50 in the afternoon. I am hoping this won't be too fast, but I am going to try it. I also started having stomach upset a couple of days ago with some diarrhea today. Very unusual for me. Is that possibly Ativan w/d? Thank everyone. Not sure how to add signature. Attach a file maybe?
  11. I am in my mid-thirties, and I've been on some form of antidepressant since adolescence. As a socially awkward, bullied young person in the throes of puberty, I hit a wall of apathy and sadness sometime in my sophomore year of high school. I no longer had the drive to make the Dean's List or pursue the activities I once enjoyed. This is when a pivotal conversation with my primary care provider occurred. He rolled toward me on a medical stool, pointing at printed charts illustrating neurotransmitters and a faulty brain chemistry. I think I was prescribed Zoloft, but I don't recall the details. I do remember that my parents remarked on the difference the medication made in my mood, and truth be told I was thankful at that time that I'd found the help I needed. Throughout college and into my twenties, my doctor adjusted my medication(s) several times. These adjustments usually corresponded with various hardships and bumps in the road inherent to living a human life. But I was fully bought into the idea that my brain was unbalanced, and feeling "okay" was just a matter of finding the right med or mix of meds to temper the discomfort. In my late twenties, I fought hard to get sober, recognizing that alcohol was causing far more harm than good in my life. Around the same time, I was prescribed Ambien for sleep (as needed). In the true fashion of an alcoholic, "as needed" soon became "every night." A couple years later, for reasons unknown to me or unremembered, my doctor prescribed Temazepam for my nightly sleep regimen to replace the Ambien. I had no understanding of benzodiazepines, their risks, or the withdrawals often associated with quitting them. I remained on a cocktail of Pristiq/Wellbutrin for depression paired with Temazepam to slow my brain at night for nearly five years. Honestly, I didn't think much of it. I trusted my doctor, and had no reason not to. I moved to a new city in 2016, started a new career, and felt in many ways that I was hitting my stride. In 2019, my then girlfriend suggested that I try and see what things might be like if I tapered off of the medication. Herself a trained therapist, she was particularly concerned that I relied on something to sleep every night. I agreed, and thought I'd like to see if these drugs were really necessary anymore. I was sober, I certainly wasn't depressed, and I had a good support system in place. In partnership with a new doctor and with my therapist on board, I made a plan to taper off of the medication. First the Wellbutrin, which we dropped over the course of a month or so. Then the Pristiq, which we tapered down over the course of a couple months. Then, snowed in on a November day and down to my last 30mg dose of Temazepam I thought, "I'll just stop taking this and be done with these meds completely." During the antidepressant tapering process, I was a bit more irritable and had some trouble focusing, but I was mostly functional. The symptoms were mild to moderate. Even in the immediate days and weeks after dropping the Temazepam, I felt okay. I slept fine, and I was mostly just excited to no longer be chained to a monthly sack of prescription refills to fix my "broken" brain. Fast forward to just after Christmas 2019. Some challenges in my relationship were giving me anxiety, but it was anxiety like I'd never felt before. And the strength of the anxiety was entirely disproportionate to the reality of the situation. It wan't long before I wasn't sleeping. Soon, I felt unsafe spending nights alone, fearing for my own safety. Thoughts of suicide cycled through my brain with regularity. A couple of weeks passed, and even basic tasks became insurmountable. I was in a near constant state of fight-or-flight. One Sunday evening I opened up my laptop to try and catch up on some things at work that I'd fallen behind on, and I couldn't focus my eyes to read an email. Panic began to set in, and I dialed my physician and then my therapist to try and make sense of what was happening. At the time, I placed much of the blame on my relationship, but I see now that I was in acute drug withdrawal. I fought my way through a haze of psychiatric evaluations, doctor's visits, emergency therapy appointments, the dissolution of my relationship, and a car accident (in which thankfully nobody was hurt). Eventually, at my own insistence, I found my way back to the original three medications I'd been taking, thinking that would be my best shot at finding some sense of stability. It's only been in the last month or so that I've felt some degree of what I would call stability, and I'm operating at about 75% of the mental capacity I once was, trying to pick up the pieces of my life and make sense of everything that happened. That search to make sense of everything is what led me here. I know that I do not want to be on a cocktail of medication for the rest of my life. I don't want to medicate my feelings or rely on a drug to fall asleep or live detached from my emotional experience. But I also know that right now, the right thing to do is to wait. I have to wait until my nervous system stabilizes and I can set up the proper plan and support system (the latter of which is made more complicated by the global pandemic we're all experiencing). If you have any advice for how I should go about tapering these medications based on my history, current dosage, and the experience described above, I am all ears. I look forward to actively participating in this withdrawal process alongside all of you, even if I need to wait a bit before I set out again. Much love.
  12. Cigarettes at age 11. Alcohol periodically from age 13 to age 30. Valium episodically from age 18 to age 27. I have been on myriad anti-depressants since 1982 for major depression and generalized anxiety. Imipramine, desyrel, ativan. Off drugs from 1984 till 1995. Started Prozac 1995 till 2014 (did well from 1995 to 2011). Tried Wellbutrin, Cymbalta. Abilify and Trintellix from March 2014 till August 8, 2017 (depression free). Had to withdraw due to cervical dystonia and tremors which still persist. Terrible experience withdrawing from Abilify and Trintellix. Started Wellbutrin 150 mg. and Prozac 10 mg. for one week to help with withdrawal. Then increased Wellbutrin to 300 mg. and experienced ringing in ears; stopped the Wellbutrin and increased Prozac to 20 mg. (10 in A.M.; 10 in P.M.) Now on Prozac 20 mg. per day, occasional Propranolol for tremors (doesn't help). I've read that coming off Abilify can take up to 3 months or more, and it has been 2 months so far. I feel like I've spent (wasted) my entire adult life trying to feel better, first by self-medicating, then by psychiatric medicating. I'm 72 years old. I wonder if there is any hope for me.
  13. Hello, and many thanks to this website for being so informative! I only wish that I had known about this site a few years ago (or even a few months ago). Here is why - My 19 year old daughter is, I believe, now going through Bupropion withdrawal. It's hard to know for sure because a virus *could* be partly to blame. Either way, she is too out of it to be her own advocate right now so I am trying to learn as much s possible so that I can best help her. My daughter began taking Bupropion (150mg) in the summer of 2016 for pretty severe depression. In the winter of 2017, Fluvoxamine 100mg was added for OCD. Gabapentin (900mg per day) was added about 9 months ago for nervousness. During this time we moved and had to switch doctors. The new doctor changed her Bupropion to the 150mg XL (extended release) formula about 6 months ago. She was previously taking the 75mg SR version twice per day. It was soon after our move, which corresponded to the new doctor and new Bupropion formula, that my daughter's mental health seemed to take a downturn. In the past 4-5 months in particular she has stayed in bed most days with a low mood. She also started having a tremor in her hands and feelings of nausea off and on. I contacted her PCP in August this year to share my concern and was told it was probably a virus and that she would feel better soon...but she only got worse. A month later the nausea got so bad that she began vomiting all the time. After 5 days of this severe vomiting with no other viral symptoms, the doctors agreed to run tests. We found her ALT to be elevated, and this was concerning in regards to the Bupropion so it was agreed that she would stop taking the Bupropion. Her PCP recommended that she titer by half every 3 days. I thought that I was being cautious by making this a week instead of 3 days. Now, after a month, she is on 18.75mg every other day of the Bupropion SR. Her psychiatrist says she should be off it by now, but I have added this every other day titration at this point and I'm not sure where to go from here. The psychiatrist wants her off the Bupropion so that Lamictal can be started. I'm still not sure about starting another drug at this point! Anyway... To make things even more complicated, we tested her blood for the Epstein Barr Virus (EBV) and her result was borderline (technically they call it "equivocal"). She had mono (which is caused by the EBV) two years ago and got very, very sick then. The fatigue she is experiencing could be related...or not. It's hard to tell. Her PCP feels her fatigue is depression related. The psychiatrist thinks it could have something to do with the EBV. She will be re-tested for EBV next week. And to make things even MORE complicated, her psychiatrist said we should take her off the Gabapentin by reducing one 300mg pill per week. I hired another psychiatrist to oversee psychiatrist number 1 and he said that we could reduce the Gabapentin every 2 weeks but that he did not want to wait longer than that because he wants her to start the Lamictal. We took away one pill almost two weeks ago. Right now my daughter's main symptom is fatigue. She is in bed 90% of the time. She had to drop out of college this semester. She is also super depressed. She was having intense nightmares and sleepless nights these past few months, waking up each morning screaming, but that seems to have gotten a bit better (no waking up screaming the past few weeks). The good news is that her tremor is gone! She does get a little more agitated than normal as well. My daughter is currently taking fish oil (900mg/per meal) and vitamin D3 (5000IU/day) as supplements, and last night she took her first dose of Melatonin 0.3mg. She also takes birth control pills for PCOS. I believe that these pills might be behind her depression but at this point I don't want to jar her system further by removing/changing them. As soon as we can we will address this. My quandaries now are: - How to proceed with Bupropion (currently on 18.75mg every other day - doctor does not want her to reduce more because he wants her to start on Lamictal). - How to proceed with the Gabapentin (doctor says 1 pill per 2 week titer and I worry about this) - Do we give Lamictal a chance? Once she is stabilized, she will begin tapering the Fluvoxamine. We don't think it's really helping her. I now know that this needs to be done at 10% increments each month for years. We will think more about this when the time comes. For now I want to make sure that she is able to get through this Bupropion and Gabapentin withdrawal. If anyone here has any insight or knowledge to share then I would really appreciate it. Thank you, Snek (I chose this name because my daughter loves snakes and this is a cute word she uses for them - she does still smile when I show her pictures of cute snakes so I now love snakes too)
  14. I had started this heavy headed ness in December 2018..The feeling was like someone tying strong knot around my head and its getting tighter...with NO relief in site....I ddint knw at that time , it was related to depression. So i kept hoping that it will ultimately subside after diet change, sleep patterns etc.. but nothing worked ....After 6 months of this unbearable pain.I visited psychiatrist.In our society and family , visiting psychitrist is taboo. He has Started off with amixide-h, flunil 20...it helped me ...I got recovered to some extent .But not completeely. then my doctor advised me to visit another doc at metropolitan area. so i did... he started with having galop 10 and betacap 20 ....and increased dsage gradually... I recovered but new monster arised infront of me 'ANHEDONIA/emotional blunting/numbness' ...It was making me disassociated from everyone i am closer and affecting every relations i have. Then i talked this to doctor, he changed tab to Dulexetin , buproprien and betacap for this emotional apathy .....This has really helped me in relieving some symptoms of depression ..Anhedonia but remained ... After 4-5 month of treatment , Now i am recovered to the extent but last problem for me remains. In between i tried supplements like MUCUNA pruriens for dopamine, its very effective for me with libido increase, sexual pleasure, but not helped much with anhedonia. Now i started on with AGOMELATINE for this anhedonia thing...so will update about its effectiveness after 1 -2 months. If anyone has gone through plaese reply and suggest any new thing for anhedonia...LETS beat this bastard...
  15. Hey all, 36 year old here – trying to sort out withdrawal effects, med side effects and potential underlying medical issues. Current meds: Bupropion (Wellbutrin) IR – 75mg w/breakfast, 37.5 w/ lunch, 37.5 with dinner (150 mg total) Amphetamine salts (Adderall) – 2.5 mg morning, 2.5 mg afternoon (5 mg total) Caffeine – 100 mg late morning Loratadine (Claritin) – 10 mg w/ breakfast Cefuroxime (antibiotic) – 250 mg morning, 250 mg evening Doxylamine Succinate (OTC sleep aid) – 17.5 mg before bed Current / past health issues: Depression – on and off since about 2000, started Bupropion in 2009 Anxiety – has always been low level, much worse since WD started IBS – dx around 2000 Chronic bladder inflammation (interstitial cystitis) – dx in 2010 Prostatitis – sort of chronic, reason for current antibiotics WD history, short version: Started Bupropion (SR) about 10 years ago. 2018 tapered 50 mg at a time from 300 down to 150. 2/2019 tried to taper from 150 to 100 and stopped due to withdrawal effects. Effects returned 4/2019 despite no dose change. Ended up switching from 150 SR to 150 IR on April 26th, and made large cut to my Adderall and Caffeine doses April 29th. Still recovering from symptoms and trying to stabilize fully. WD history, long version: In 2018, I started tapering the Bupropion down 50 mg at a time (at the advice of my doctor) starting at 300 mg. At the time I was taking the SR formulation. Sept/Oct 2018 - I taped from 200 mg to 150 mg around and got fairly sick for a week in October. Upset stomach, fever, flu-like symptoms. At the time I thought it was just a stomach bug, but after having similar symptoms during WD I’ve been wondering if it was WD. Feb 2019 - Tried to taper from 150 mg to 100 mg and experienced severe dizziness, nausea, fever/chills and sinus symptoms. I went back up to 150 mg after 5 days and felt better within a day or two . April 14th - Picked up my Rx refill, and on April 15th I started to feel lightheaded, dizzy and tired. I got worse over the next few days with headache, congestion, fever/chills, nausea and chest pain. I went to an emergency dentist on 4/21 thinking it might be an abscessed tooth (they said tooth looked fine) and went to urgent care due to pain while urinating. Urine culture was normal, and I tested negative for flu. I went to my PCP on 4/23 with very bad shakes in addition to the other symptoms. At this point, I started wondering if my new refill had somehow been a “bad batch” of the generic meds, so I got an Rx for the same meds from a different manufacturer. I tried that for two days with no improvement. 4/26, I switched from Bupropion SR (taken once a day at this point) to Bupropion IR (taken 3 times a day). The total dose didn’t change. Also had blood work done (CBC w/ diff, comp metabolic panel) – results normal. 4/29, following a morning with very rapid heartbeat, I cut my ADD meds (generic Adderall) from 15 mg to 5 mg. I also cut my daily caffeine from 200 mg to 100 mg. I’d reduced both the ADD meds and the caffeine in the past without any apparent ill effects, so I didn’t think it would have any effect this time around. 5/6 – 5/13 - Symptoms mainly resolved, except for some GI issues. 5/14 I had a rash, fever and shaking. Bad anxiety due to symptoms – went to Urgent Care b/c of rash. Over the next week I also started getting nauseous. 5/22 – Had blood work done again - (CBC w/ diff, comp metabolic panel plus ESR-Wes+CRP to check for inflammation). Also had Urine Analysis. All results normal. 5/29 – 6/6 again felt mostly better save for some lasting GI issues including mild belly pain. 6/6 had fever, chills, fatigue, added dizziness and shakiness over the next few days Most of June: occasional dizziness and stomach pains. 6/17 - Tried to taper from 150 to 131. Reinstated after a few days dizziness and nausea. Early July: Feverish, pains in stomach and chest. Occasional tightness in chest and heart palpitations. Lots of anxiety about symptoms. Started antibiotic July 17th. Current (past few days): some pain in stomach and chest, more frequent heart palpitations. Stomach a bit upset (probably due to antibiotics). I’m seeing a therapist every other week, mostly about anxiety. I’d been planning (hoping) to try tapering the Bupropion again this coming week because I have a few weeks off work, but I’ve having second thoughts since I just started the antibiotic. Also wondering if it would be better to taper the caffeine first, since I should be able to get off that more easily. Glad I found this site, very good to know I’m not the only one 😊
  16. Good morning. I can't sleep right now, so I am posting here. Trying to learn as fast as possible, so bear with me if this information is in another thread. Partner has reduced from 200mg buproprion & 20 mg escitalopram to 150 and 15 respectively. I understand that it is only wise to do one drug at a time. We are on day 15 since reducing the dosage and started to notice prior symptoms reoccurring to a lesser extent around day 9. They are bearable. I don't want to cause damage one way or another by making adjustments too quickly. Have read and need to continue to read more about the 10% rule. I am going to ask the doctor for a liquid form to have a more gradual taper. I understand that we need to do our own research for understanding, and that sometimes doctors can only take us so far. Should she go back on her previous doses, stabilize for a month or two, then reintroduce a taper? Does going back on the previous dosage rock the boat too much or should we taper back up? Thank you so much for your insight. I appreciate everyone's posts here, and am looking forward to further educating myself in this newfound wealth of information.
  17. Zpssd

    Zpssd: Plz help

    I stopped fluvoxamine 2 months ago and started expiriencing sexual dysfunction so i went to my psychiatrist and he added bupropraon(wellbutrin).its been 4 days and i am not noticing any improvement.i need to know that my syptoms wont worsen as long as i am on ssri again
  18. Spring 2014: Effexor ? mg for 2 months then cold turkey (didnt know better at the time). Originally put on this for depression after a break up. Fall 2014: Dizziness, extreme memory issues, pins and needles in hands and feet. Occasional adderall use. Working 2 jobs to pay for engineering school. Health anxiety started when doctors couldn't find cause of symptoms. Tried samE, 5htp. Winter 2014-2015: tried molly with a friend. Ended up in the ER. Months that passed included many ER visits and eventually klonopin (? mg) Spring 2015: after researching benzo dangers wanted off. Tried to taper. Horrid withdrawal. Switched to diazepam 6mg. Dog/best friend died of cancer. Started celexa 10 mg. Rest of 2015: Moved back in with mom, slowly tapered diazepam, stopped daily on new years 2016. Winter-Spring 2016: back in school. Stopped celexa 10mg in January. Pins and needles and depression in February. Started on wellbutrin 150mg. Increased anxiety but allowed me to finish school. Graduated. Stopped wellbutrin after graduation. Summer 2016: quit job too much stress while going through what I now know to be withdrawal. Drove for ride share service when feeling well enough. Felt like living with chronic fatigue syndrome. No doctors could find cause. Fall 2016: started back on celexa 15mg after rock bottom depression. Eventually wellbutrin added back at 75mg. Moved to a new state. PM panic attacks started after going back on celexa. Started full time engineering job. Winter 2016 - Winter 2018: wellbutrin gradually increased to 300mg. Started celexa taper. 15 down to 10mg. Increase in depression but tolerable. Spring 2019: tapered celexa down to 5mg. Extremely depressed. Affected relationship. Found a psychiatrist who wanted to switch me to zoloft. Relationship break up the week of starting zoloft. Zoloft lifted depression at first. Summer 2019: got back together with boyfriend. zoloft increased to 50 then 75 then 100. Horrible reaction to 100mg. Worst anxiety of my life. Stopped cold turkey. Back on 2.5mg celexa. Dr Then tried liquid zoloft increase from 0 by 1mg every few days to cross taper with celexa. Able to stop wellbutrin easily. Also had tooth extraction during all of this (infected root canal). Fall 2019: up to 8mg zoloft 1mg celexa. Horrible anxiety. Stopped zoloft cold turkey after getting suicidal thoughts from severe anxiety. Current: trying to find a celexa dose to stabilize on. Trying 2.5 mg. Anxiety and fatigue battles daily. going to write more soon. Just wanted a quick recap to start.
  19. Hi all. Gotta start out with a big thanks to all the contributors here for both the wealth of advice and for the validation. I was taking moclobemide (reversible MAOI) for approx 3yrs, 300mg/day. I found it to be very effective and honestly would have stayed on it quite happily for the rest of my days. However, I recently emigrated from my home country to the US, where moclobemide isn’t available, and it seems there’s nothing even in the same class (RIMA) on the market. I tried a rapid taper at one point, and all was good until about 2mths after complete discontinuation when mood nose-dived... so I re-instated. But obviously I ran out at some point and ended up doing a rapid switch from moclobemide to bupropion, with no taper. I wanted bupropion because I’m not willing to take SSRIs... been there briefly way back in my early twenties and it was not good. I also read that it’s easier to withdraw from than most other ADs. Unfortunately I’m at about the 3mth mark and things ain’t good. I don’t know if it’s that bupropion doesn’t work for me (just gone up to 300mg/day) or if it’s just that it’s not able to mask the withdrawal effects from moclobemide, since it is acting on far fewer neurotransmitters than my brain is used to. Things also aren’t awesome in my personal life. There don’t seem to be many experiences of moclobemide withdrawal on here so I’ve no idea what’s going on or what to expect. At this stage I metaphorically want to set my life on fire and I’m afraid my marriage isn’t going to survive this, but your stories give me hope.
  20. Hi there, I have been reading quite a few topics on this website, and would like to see if anyone has suggestions for my situation. I was put on effexor and wellbutrin over 5 years ago. I am not exactly sure of the exact time length I have been on it, and what doses I have tried, but the past few years I have been on 150mg of effexor and 150 mg of wellbutrin. My dr and I decided I can come off the effexor on a tapered schedule. Basically I was tapered from 150 to 75 to 37.5 to nothing in just over a month or there abouts. I didnt keep a track of the dates, which I probably should have. The tapering was ok, I didnt really notice anything happening. Then when I went from 37.5 to nothing, it really hit me. I had all the discussed symptoms and was a mess. I think July 25 was my last day on effexor. In August I think I had two or three good days, and I use the term good loosely here. September I had about 10 good days, October, is only at 8 good days so far. These day are not all in a row, they are very sporadic. I recently started a new job, but it only goes for another month. That has me really stressed out, as I have no savings to fall back on and no job lined up yet. My job I am currently at is good though, it has me outside in the forest, getting lots of exercise and lots of fresh air. Since about October 11, I have been having these crazy crying fits. I just cry, and cry. When I am not crying, I feel ok, but then I start crying hours later. I did go to the walk in clinic, as I cannot get into see my fam dr with my work schedule, and the dr at the walk in suggested I try doubling my wellbutrin either every day, or I could double it up every second day. He said this will still take a month before I start feeling any better, if I do. This morning, out of desperation, I took a second pill and I will continue with this, unless someone has another suggestion... Does anyone have any experience with this? When I have a good day, I still have a tightness in my chest, and I know I am so close to tears, but I am able to ward them off. I find I have to keep myself super busy to not cry, or think, as htinking leads to tears. Today is another rough day, lots of crying already. I do not want to go back on effexor, as my mind has never felt so crisp and clear. I feel unfogged and alert, I do not remember ever feeling like this. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
  21. Today is my birthday and I feel like the best gift ever is finding this forum. I am tapering off of fifteen years of taking Symbyax and bupropion. My psychiatrist seems to have little knowledge about antidepressant withdrawal. I have been on half my usual dose for two months now and I seem to be getting more severe ups and downs. I am so grateful to find other people willing to share their experiences. It gives me strength. I will be monitoring this forum daily as I already feel better knowing you all are here. Thank you.
  22. Want2Want2

    Want2Want2: hello

    Hi yall, So much to say, but little time now. Will be back w/more info soon. Glad to be here. Currently struggling with ongoing apathy, indifference, just-not-caring, from initial (and fairly immediate) introduction of Zoloft in 2013. It has persisted since then whether on or off medication, although it IS dose dependent w/Prozac. Reading this forum has been instrumental in my previous tapering but only now have I created an account. So thanks to all, especially Altostrata. I know there are much more difficult symptoms, as I've had many of them in the past, but this indifference seems to have completely (permanently?) changed my personality. Preparing to discontinue current doses of 10mg Prozac and 150mg Wellbutrin, beginning in April.
  23. Topic title: Welbutrin use for 10 years have done with tapering but awful things happening almost 2 months still My daughter has been in and out of er spent a week in the mental ward. Since getting off these meds we are at a dead end she is a awful mess. She was put on buspar 2 weeks ago to help cope , any insight any help would be so welcome at this point.
  24. 26/F. Depression/anxiety. History of being somewhat underweight. Family history of severe mood disorders. My brother killed himself about 6 months ago. 2007-2013: Lexapro 10-20 mg. Took this on and off, with 2 cold turkey "quits." I remember it took about 7-8 days of sleeping and withdrawal symptoms both times. Luckily this time around, my SSRI has a much longer half-life, and wellbutrin has been pretty tame so far in terms of withdrawl side effects. 2015: Moved out of state by myself. Lived alone. Started seeing psychiatrist regularly. After trying: citalopram, sertraline, and the SR version of bupropion, my stable prescription has been 150 mg bupropion XL (wellbutrin) and 30 mg fluoxetine (prozac) in the morning everyday. Wellbutrin was my "Godsend." I was crying for 12 hours a day for no reason. Wellbutrin made it possible to get out of bed. 2017: Moved back with family. They're feeding me and taking care of me. I'm trying a taper because of side effects. There are so many "mild" ones that it's difficult to even identify them anymore - I've accepted them as just "normal". The dizziness, the foggy brain, the random "blank" moments when I forget what I'm saying mid-sentence. GI symptoms... Etc. I stopped the wellbutrin earlier this week. According to this website: https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/going-off-antidepressants it should be out my system 99% by now. Keeping the prozac consistent. I have a ~10 or so pills of .025 generic xanax that I'm keeping for panic attack emergencies or acute withdrawal symptoms. I'm taking 3 capsules of 10mg each. I might try dropping one whole capsule for a week and see how I do. I will be of work for a few weeks so it will be a good time to experiment. I'm trying to add lifestyles changes that will help me manage depression. Here is what I am trying right now, in approximate order of perceived efficacy: 1. exercise: 3-5 days a week, trying to get 150min of moderate cardio and 2 days of full body strength (per CDC recommendation). Has helped with mood, self-esteem, dramatically improved sleep quality and appetite. 2. meditation: using an app for this. started with 3 minutes, went up to 10. Haven't done it the last few days, will start again tonight. 3. sleeping hygiene - work in progress. 4. diet: avoiding processed foods and junk foods, eating 3 good meals a day, lots of water. I have been experiencing huge pangs of thirst since stopping wellbutrin. I'm taking a few supplements (curcumin, probiotics, among others) but I don't know if that's doing anything. I'm interested in "gut health" - apparently there's a huge connection between the gut and the brain, eh? Trying to take care of it. I'm also reading some books. Currently reading Upward Spiral. Has anyone read it? Here's the description: "Depression can feel like a downward spiral, pulling you into a vortex of sadness, fatigue, and apathy. In The Upward Spiral, neuroscientist Alex Korb demystifies the intricate brain processes that cause depression and offers a practical and effective approach to getting better. Based on the latest research in neuroscience, this book provides dozens of straightforward tips you can do every day to rewire your brain and create an upward spiral towards a happier, healthier life." Here's to managing symptoms... of the meds, withdrawal symptoms, and depression.
  25. All of my symptoms in bolded, for ease of quick scanning for relevance by anyone interested. I have ended up on this website after lots and lots of google research to pin down the cause of my incessant symptoms of a low-grade migraine headache and constant nausea that I have been experiencing for 10 days straight now. My Migraine History: I have been getting migraines fairly regularly (about 2 or 3 each month) since middle school. but they are pretty mild, as migraines go. About 25% of the time, one will be preceded by an aura that is a lightening-shaped blind spot or blurry vision and then the headache will be very severe. And occasionally, one will be accompanied by severe nausea. But normally, my migraines are just quite painful headaches accompanied by heightened sensitivity to light, sounds, and smells. With ibuprofen and extra sleep, they are usually completely gone within 30 hours. During puberty and especially pregnancy, my migraines were more severe in all aspects: nausea, sensory sensitivity, and pain. My Venlafaxine Withdrawal/Discontinuation Symptoms: I did not connect these symptoms to the cessation of Venlafaxine until recently because 1. I did not know that physical symptoms could be related to the cessation of antidepressants. 2. The onset of symptoms did not occur until 5 days after my last half dose of Venlafaxine. 3. I was only on Venlafaxine for 27 days (including a half-dose for the last 7 days). I only made this correlation after several days of googling possible causes, and after including symptoms that I had previously dismissed as insignificant and inconsequential in my internet searches I started experiencing a persistent nausea that did not seem like food poisoning or stomach flu (no stomach cramping, etc.) 14 days ago. There were/are waves when the nausea is worse throughout the day, and a constant malaise otherwise. Unlike the stomach "flu" or food poisoning, there is/was no stomach cramping or urge to vomit. On the 4th day of no relief, I realized that it was just like the nausea I get that sometimes accompanies my migraines. I hadn't equated it with a migraine previously, because there was no headache. I started taking ibuprofen periodically, treating it as if it were a migraine. On about the 5th day, I could feel a headache "trying to set in", which is my usual precursor to an impending migraine (although historically the nausea, if it develops, does not come on until after the headache presents). Since then, I have had no improvement in symptoms. On about day 6, I started googling possible migraine prescriptions and was considering seeing my M.D. the following day, if there was no improvement. I also started googling the combination of all my other mild/querky symptoms to see what else it could possibly be, if not a migraine. These other sporadic symptoms had each seemed inconsequential as they had come and gone here and there, and were easily dismissed. But I was starting to realize they might be related. Muscle Weakness in my biceps that I had noticed when using a steering wheel or when filing through clothing racks while shopping. Crying and/or the feeling that I needed a good cry, without provocation, that felt very similar to PMS (although this was about 10 days after my last menses). Brain Fog in the middle of conversation. I will have to concentrate really hard to remember what the conversation is about, and what I was going to say next. I will forget what my husband told me just minutes ago. Word Recall Difficulty both while texting/typing (spelling) and in conversation (vocabulary). High Pulse Rate of 88pm, which was noted at the medical appointment that I had on the fourth day after my last dose of Venlafaxine, when I felt great. Chills Hot Flashes/Feeling Flushed Sinus Congestion which was present before, but is now much worse, especially at night. Nausea that feels like "Morning" Sickness when there is 0% that I am pregnant. Yes, 0%. At times, I can tell that I will feel better if I eat, and at other times I can tell that eating will make me feel worse. My best time of day is the first 3-4 hours after waking up. Shivers not related to body temperature this one I just experienced last night, and suspect (hope!) is more likely related to my inadverdently taking 2 different antihistamines (diphenhydramine and cetrizine) at the same time! Very pronounced and fast onset of "prune skin" on the soles of my feet, followed by Extreme itchiness on the soles of my feet Another really bizarre symptom that I think might have another cause. ??? I had sprayed the soles of my feet at bedtime with magnesium oil two nights in a row, as I have done in the past when experiencing a severe migraine. I did not bathe or shower until a third night. 5 minutes into my bath, my feet (and only my feet) were EXTREMELY pruny, as if I had been soaking for more than an hour! I have found nothing online indicating that this wierd fluke may be related to the magnesium oil, nor to antidepressant withdrawal/discontinuation. After the bath, my feet were excruciatingly itchy (just the skin, not the nerves) for at least 30 minutes! After much reading on this and other similar forums, I contacted my P.A. that has been assisting in my medication management for the last 3 months. I am going to reintroduce 5 beads of Venlfaxine tonight and see if it makes a difference by the time my afternoon appointment rolls around tomorrow. She is doubtful that any of these symptoms are related to the antidepressant, so I hope this works. I really hope that my experience, along with the litany of literature I will be leaving with her tomorrow, convinces her of this very real and very under-reported issue!
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