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India posted a topic in In the mediahttps://metro.co.uk/2018/01/24/woman-shares-coming-off-antidepressant-ruined-life-7255570/ See link for images that accompany article By Ellen Scott, Lifestyle editor Wednesday 24 Jan 2018 10:36 am When Tabitha Dow was six, she had her first migraine. Now and again she’d be stuck with headaches, but when she hit 29 they became more regular and more severe. Soon her migraines were debilitating, so she sought out medical support at the National Migraine Centre in London. There, Tabitha was advised to ask her doctor for the antidepressant Venlafaxine at a maximum dose of 150mg. She was told that this would help not only with her migraines, but also with her persistent low moods. ‘This was the start of my downfall,’ Tabitha tells Metro.co.uk. ‘Neither the neurologist, nor the GP who subsequently prescribed the drug, explained that it was extremely chemically addictive. ‘I was not told how long to take it for, it was prescribed indefinitely, and there was no mention that coming off the drug would likely result in severe withdrawal symptoms and a need to taper off like you would heroin. ‘Neither mentioned that one of the common withdrawal effects of Venlafaxine are migraines.’ Venlafaxine didn’t work to help Tabitha’s mood, so after a year, she decided she wanted to come off it. Asking her GP about a plan to taper off the antidepressant, Tabitha was told that the medical professional had ‘no idea’ how to proceed. ‘I was completely by myself,’ says Tabitha. She followed the instructions recommended by her GP, but was quickly confront with severe and debilitating withdrawal symptoms. The plan the doctor recommended was fast and drastic, and Tabitha feels she was left completely unprepared for what she was about to face. Tabitha before withdrawal. Picture: Tabitha Dow) ‘The migraines increased dramatically and on top of these I developed intense crushing pressure in my forehead which was constant and unbearable for months,’ Tabitha remembers. ‘I also experienced chronic fatigue, internal tremors, startling easily, sensitivity to light and sound, sensory overload, anger, brain zaps, pressure behind my eyes, tired eyes, extreme fear, panic, confusion, being unable to speak, being unable to move, my brain feeling sick, my heart beating fast when I stood up, mental turmoil, night terrors, hypnagogic hallucinations, night sweats, gasping in my sleep, feeling unwell after a bath/shower, severe difficulty waking up in the morning, feeling drowsy and stuck until several hours after waking, feeling drugged and toxic after napping and sleeping, a sensation of my brain moving from side-to-side, squeezing/tight sensation inside my head, right eye-brow pulling upwards, a chemical “metally” sensation in my forehead, vibrating and electrical sensation in my head, being unable to cope with everyday tasks, deterioration in mood, agitation, feeling like my brain was shutting down, light-headed when I stood up, feeling like my body was rocking as if on a boat, feeling catatonic, scrambled thinking, feeling as if there was a block in my thinking, difficulty planning, difficulty carrying out sequential tasks, and feeling detached from my environment.’ Having found out that she has a lesion in the frontal lobe in her brain, Tabitha believes she may have even had a seizure during this time. ‘I’ve had two episodes where I couldn’t speak,’ she says. ‘It felt like an electrical storm in my head, which I’ve read is what a seizure feels like.’ Tabitha during withdrawal. (Picture: Tabitha Dow) At first Tabitha didn’t realise that her symptoms were the direct result of withdrawal from Venlafaxine. When she asked her doctor for help and her test results came back normal, she was offered no further support. ‘I was left to cope alone,’ she says. NICE's current guidelines on Venlafaxine, and what Tabitha wants to change: ‘Associated with a higher risk of withdrawal effects compared with other antidepressants. ‘Gastro-intestinal disturbances, headache, anxiety, dizziness, paraesthesia, tremor, sleep disturbances, and sweating are most common features of withdrawal if treatment stopped abruptly or if dose reduced markedly; dose should be reduced over several weeks.’ Tabitha suggests that the recommendation to reduce the dose over several weeks isn’t accurate. It takes months to come off the antidepressant safely, and two years later she’s still experiencing debilitating symptoms. She notes that NICE’s guidelines also fail to mention that Venlafaxine can cause withdrawal symptoms even when not stopped abruptly, and tapered off in accordance with GP’s tapering guidelines. Unable to work, Tabitha had to quit her job and leave her flat in West London to move home with her parents, so they could look after her. She lost everything – her job, her health, her home, and yet, she says, doctors still refuse to listen to her struggles. The doctors Tabitha has seen don’t believe that withdrawal can cause the severe symptoms Tabitha listed. The only psychiatrist she could find to back up her claims is Dr Healy, who’s dedicated his time to researching the effects of Venlafaxine’s withdrawal symptoms. Dr Healy wrote a letter to Tabitha’s GP confirming that she was experiencing intense withdrawal symptoms, but Tabitha says she’s still not receiving any help. It was only when Tabitha found a Facebook group dedicated to Venlafaxine withdrawal that she learned she wasn’t alone in experiencing her symptoms. Scrolling through the group, Tabitha found comment after comment repeating her experience, listing a ‘crushing pressure in their foreheads every single day’, that feels like your head is ‘in a vice’ or you’re being ‘smashed in the head with a brick’. ‘It’s ruined my life’ (Picture: Tabitha Dow) ‘It wasn’t until I joined this group and saw that there were hundreds of people in the group all experiencing the same symptoms as me,’ Tabitha tells us, ‘and that I realised that my symptoms were caused by Venlafaxine withdrawal. ‘I told two GPs that I was experiencing withdrawal symptoms from Venlafaxine. One didn’t comment but agreed to refer me to see Dr Healy, the other disagreed even once I had written evidence from Dr Healy.’ Doctors Tabitha has seen believe that the symptoms she’s experiencing are not the result of coming off Venlafaxine, but are simply her original condition returning. We spoke to a psychiatrist with experience in Venlafaxine, Dr Cosmo Hallstrom, who told us that it’s one of the most popular antidepressants out there, and is generally regarded as the most effective. While legally, GPs are required to give patients all the information regarding drugs they prescribe, Dr Hallstrom says that the reality is quite different. ‘A doctor’s interest is to get patients treated, and to persuade them to take medication that will help,’ Dr Hallstrom tells Metro.co.uk. ‘So maybe they don’t start listing off all the possible side effects.’ He notes that a GP’s perception of risk is different to that of a patient, and doctors may be reluctant to note all the possible risks in case it puts a patient off getting help. Two years later, Tabitha is still experiencing withdrawal symptoms. (Picture: Tabitha Dow) SSRIs do have withdrawal symptoms, Dr Hallstrom explains, but these tend to be short-lived. He states that data shows that in the majority of patients who believe they’re having withdrawal symptoms, what they’re actually experiencing is the return of their initial condition. He does admit, however, that there’s a chance some people may experience genuine withdrawal – but recommends a simple ‘test, retest’ as a way to check it out. ‘I understand that a lot of patients might not want to take the medication again, having been through a bad experience,’ Dr Hallstrom says. ‘They say “that stuff’s poison”. ‘But if it is withdrawal, when they start taking the drug again their symptoms should disappear within 24 or 48 hours. That’s a simple test.’ But having been ‘traumatised’ by her experience, Tabitha is reluctant to go near medication again – especially as Venlafaxine didn’t work to remedy her depression in the first place, and she doesn’t want to be tied to taking medication for the rest of her life. Two years on, she’s still debilitated by withdrawal symptoms. She’s unable to work, relies on PIP and ESA benefits, and is now trying to raise money to fund alternative therapies to help her cope – not only with her side effects, but with her thyroid cancer, which she was diagnosed with in the last few years. It’s the withdrawal symptoms that concern her most. MORE: HEALTH These are the 20 most painful illnesses, according to the NHS Women take to Twitter to vent over how they are treated by doctors Mums over 35 should wait at least a year between pregnancies, says study Women are more likely to be addicted to cannabis than men, suggests study ‘I’d rather have thyroid cancer than go through coming off Venlafaxine,’ Tabitha tells her. ‘Thyroid cancer doesn’t cause any symptoms. Withdrawal ruins my life every thirty seconds. ‘I have really bad cognitive symptoms. It was like my brain had been drugged. ‘I feel like my intelligence has gone, along with my memory.’ Naturally, the experience has put Tabitha off taking medication. She now relies on alternative therapies, but as this is a huge financial burden, she’s taken to GoFundMe to ask for help. Now, by sharing her story, Tabitha hopes she can affect change. ‘It’s too late for me,’ she tells us. ‘Taking Venlafaxine has ruined my life; I’ve lost my income, my social life and my independence. ‘But I would like doctors to believe me. I’d like them to listen. ‘I want there to be better information about coming off antidepressants and I want there to be a change to the NICE guidelines, so no one has to go through this again.’ Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2018/01/24/woman-shares-coming-off-antidepressant-ruined-life-7255570/?ito=cbshare Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/
Interesting article written by Deborah Orr on her first introduction to Citalopram. She appears to have a possible adverse reaction to her initial dose of Citalopram. Refuted by many in the comments box who have had positive experiences with ssri's and who have really bought into the pervasive pharma position . Of interest, is the ensuing dialogue it prompts, in a discussion in the comments, by a poster claiming to be a doctor, calling himself "scubadoc'. Scubadoc is interesting, he seems to oscillate his position. I got as far as his comments in relation to 'SubjectiveSubject's experience of withdrawal, in which he appears discounts and questions the validity of the poster's experience based on his mental health. This appears at the end of some of the comments I've cut and pasted. These are edited from the comment boards, so reading them gives you more context. Still, I find it fascinating to observe the way it plays out as a sort of mirroring of what many experience playing out in their own visits to GPs and psychiatrists. ARTICLE https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/08/antidepressant-effects-psychotherapy-mental-health-crisis-nhs COMMENTS FROM THE ARTICLE scubadoc BraceYourself 8 Jul 2017 10:28 8081 It's all a bit strange: I, for instance, prescribe some antidepressants as pain-killers and actually talk to my patients about them. We have written a leaflet that adds to the package insert. We see quote a lot of PTSD, and anxiety is a common feature. Dissociation is a feature of the illness, rather than of the medication, but one well-known feature of treatment is a temporary increase in some features of the illness. There is the risk of suicide, particularly in young people, for instance. It's important and it's brave to discuss mental health, but it's also important to get the medicine right, or it risks degenerating into simple scare-mongering... streetphotobeing 8 Jul 2017 9:28 89 Listen to this Deborah Orr : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrMPr78UpQI Then study prolonged QT interval re Citalopram, you will notice it's dose dependent, well there is no such thing as dose dependent in the context that we all have different Cytochrome P450 liver enzyme systems. You will only ascertain what the phenotype of your liver enzyme system is if you have a pharmacogenetics tes,t good luck with finding one in the UK. Also if you happen to consume one of the common food stuffs/herbs/spices that block/inhibit CYP450, you can expect to go into Akathisia, trust me, you WILL know the meaning of hell if that happens to you. Share Facebook Twitter Report PolleeD streetphotobeing 8 Jul 2017 9:46 1213 I had a cardiac reaction (short pauses, bradycardia) when I stopped taking Escitalopram (same drug essentially). I was withdrawn far too quickly (over 2 weeks after 4 yrs use). The withdrawal upset my autonomic nervous system which controls heartbeat. I ended up with a pacemaker as my ANS/ pulse would not settle back into a normal rhythm. Since then it's been determined that my sinus node doesn't work properly any more. Was this long term use of the drug at a dose of 10mg or a withdrawal reaction which was treated with a pacemaker and misunderstood? More research is needed into the cardiac effects of these drugs. Share Facebook Twitter Report streetphotobeing PolleeD 8 Jul 2017 10:24 01 Did you make a serious compliant or sue ? Share Facebook Twitter Report scubadoc streetphotobeing 8 Jul 2017 11:08 1819 Listen to this, streetphotobeing: a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, particularly if you don't understand it. Yes, cytochrome expression is polymorphic. Yes, drug metabolism is affected by the cytochromes that you happen to have. Yes, a small number of people are more sensitive to adverse effects. The answer? Stop the pill that's the problem! Simples... ... yes, I do warn my patients about problems and, yes, I do start medicines at low doses. doses. Share Facebook Twitter Report Loading… scubadoc PolleeD 8 Jul 2017 11:10 78 The drug triggered the problem, but the problem was your heart: otherwise, the abnormal rhythm would not have persisted. Share Facebook Twitter Report scubadoc streetphotobeing 8 Jul 2017 11:14 67 I'd ask an expert, streetphotobeing, before engaging in litigation. Yes, we recommend reducing the dose of SSRIs over two months after long-term use, but the likelihood of a pre-existing heart problem would be like catnip to a lawyer... Share Facebook Twitter Report streetphotobeing scubadoc 8 Jul 2017 12:20 45 ah yes, I remember you, the doctor who didn't know that akathisia is not just a movement disorder. vivify 8 Jul 2017 9:29 3536 I think there will be many many comments here with similar poor experiences. I am British but live in Austria. The reality is that most countries' mental health systems are in the same poor shape. After suffering from a few years of crippling depression that had become dangerously total I just walked in, totally broken, to the first point of help, a GP. Five minutes later I had walked out with a prescription. The sertraline gave me panic attacks and mania, feelings I had never experienced. The trazadone gave me crippling anxiety and left me with permanent cognitive loss that I'm still dealing with two years later. These drugs are so hit and miss, so random, yet are handed out without any thoughts, warnings, considerations. For some they may save lives, for for others they wreck them, or finish off an already destroyed one. That the first line of defence is not psychotherapy but medication speaks volumes of a part of the health service that needs massive funding increases to move forwards, to re-assess completely how things are done and abandon this insane model we have, and that no politician or the electorate has really cared about mental health provision, ever. Although, maybe, slowly that is changing now. Too slowly. Share Facebook Twitter Report scubadoc vivify 8 Jul 2017 11:18 3839 If you have severe depression, biological treatment works faster than talking therapies. A proper health service would offer both... ... but we don't treat mental health like a "real" illness antineoliberal 8 Jul 2017 9:34 45 Awful drugs till your system accepts them , get off them isn't pleasant either . And as for Tramodol , that drug is highly addictive and prescribed like they are handing out sweets . Lot more could be done with some of these prescribed drugs , awful side affects . Share Facebook Twitter Report scubadoc antineoliberal 8 Jul 2017 11:22 1617 Tramadol is moderately addictive, often unpleasant, and over-prescribed. It is also, sometimes, the difference between despairing disability and a normal life. Medicine is like that: tricky... mediaboy Pandamonium1 8 Jul 2017 9:48 3536 Another misinformed post. Leave it out if you know bugger all. You may as well be saying peanuts are harmless. I'm not saying people are allergic to SSRIs but messing with Serotonin has profound effects on some people or we wouldn't be reading this article. Have some common sense. If you take a pill that alters your SSRI balance, it begins straight away however small. If someone is at a tipping point it doesn't take much to have a dramatic effect on your state of mind. I know from experience, so don't spread false information. I know from experience, so don't spread false information. Share Facebook Twitter Report Pandamonium1 mediaboy 8 Jul 2017 9:54 1920 I also know from experience of being on it for 2 years so don't spout rubbish. Share Facebook Twitter Report mediaboy Pandamonium1 8 Jul 2017 10:02 3233 Ok. But that doesn't mean everyone reacts the same. You find it works and I'm glad. Don't say it can't do things in this article. You may well not have the effects described by the author, or by other posters, but everyone is different. Don't discount other peoples' experiences just because they don't reflect your own. Share Facebook Twitter Report scubadoc mediaboy 8 Jul 2017 11:23 1011 Another misinformed post... ... ad nauseam. Share Facebook Twitter Report scubadoc ID0570124 8 Jul 2017 11:25 1112 mediaboy implies the drugs are bad. It's not true: the drugs are bad for some people. That's a very different thing... ... as reflected in the comments. PlanetGeli 8 Jul 2017 9:40 12 One mistake you're making is assuming a GP will even know, in any useful way, about the effects a drug will have (have they taken it themselves? of course not, so how could they really know). Another mistake is thinking the GP thinks you are worth consulting about any of this. They often simply play God with our lives. (disclaimer; some GPs are obviously brilliant yada yada, still doesn't mean they aren't affected by the zeitgeist, or even the latest salesman, when prescribing). Different drugs do different things to different people but I've heard many a nightmare from Citalopram. And if you think that's bad wait until your GP decides they'll try you on Mirtazapine. And by the time you're some way down the line you'll think that popping pills is a hell of a lot of it, as opposed to there being "very, very much more to it" as your addiction replaces your mental health as your major nightmare. SSRIs? Just say no. Or even just say know. Don't get me started on Seroxat. Don't get yourself started on any of them. Share Facebook Twitter Report floripakid1 PlanetGeli 8 Jul 2017 10:03 1314 nnn Silly, ignorant comment on many levels. 1. So, don't take any medication that your GP hasn't tried first? 2. GPs often spend as much time as they can on a consultation, but they are limited by the NHS appointment system, plus they are general practioners, not specialists. 3. Many GPS resist the "incentives" to prescribe certain meds (many do not) and genuinely try to give the patient what they think will actually help the patient. 4. "Just say no". Who tf are you to assume you know about others' mental issues and whether mediction would be of benefit? One thing you are obviously not is a doctor! Share Facebook Twitter Report scubadoc PlanetGeli 8 Jul 2017 11:50 1213 Doctors are especially trained never to read anything, never to think and never to talk to patients about their experiences. We don't study pharmacology and physiology and we have never, ever discovered that drugs have side effects. We do not understand, and this we appear to have in common with our patients, that all treatment is a balance between good and bad... ... I never, ever warn my patients. I never, ever start at a low dose. I never, ever, give advice about when to give up on a drug, and how to stop it. Perhaps it is because I'm not a GP? Or I'm a sarcastic SOB? Share Facebook Twitter Report OutOfOptions scubadoc 8 Jul 2017 12:27 1011 I'm feeling excruciatingly irritated by some of the comments here and I'm just a person on SSRIs. I can't imagine how much worse it must be for you!!!!! Share Facebook Twitter Report Show 2 more replies PolleeD 8 Jul 2017 9:40 56 This drug produces feelings of intensified worry/anxiety when it is first taken. I found that on a 10mg dose - the starting dose - I felt much worse initially. Those feelings of numbness and being unable to access your feelings will eventually return because that is what the drug does - it numbs you. It won't help you heal, and all of those feelings you couldn't access in therapy will likely come back when you eventually come off it. Problem is, unless you receive helpful tapering advice - which isn't currently available via the NHS - you will struggle with even stronger emotions when you come off which mimic your original symptoms but which are actually your mind reacting to the withdrawal of the drug. For many people this looks like their original symptoms have worsened and they get put back on the drug again. It is this cycle of what is essentially chemical dependency which keeps people in services and which persuades them that they are either more "mentally ill" than before or destined to suffer long term. The issue of chemical dependency and repeat prescribing needs to be addressed ! Share Facebook Twitter Report FleurBaladine PolleeD 8 Jul 2017 10:11 12 Check the half-life of the drug. Some you can come off quite quickly. Share Facebook Twitter Report scubadoc PolleeD 8 Jul 2017 11:53 56 I suggest looking at SSRIs on "NHS Choices" before saying what the NHS doesn't offer... KEY COMMENTS: ID2411130 amymcm 8 Jul 2017 10:14 45 I have to disagree strongly with this and other statements that one or two tablets of an SSRI can't have that effect. My life was almost completely destroyed by two doses of citalopram 9 years ago. The first dose left me, within hours with intense akasthesia that didn't go away for about two years. The GP said 'side effects were normal' in the early weeks and urged me to continue, so I took another. I then spent the entire night awake in hell begging my husband to never let me take another no matter what. I never took another one, but it took me years to recover. I couldn't sit down to eat or watch TV for a very long time as I was so agitated. It was like prolonged torture and the worst years of my life. It sparked off years of severe anxiety and agoraphobia. The irony was that I wasn't even depressed. I felt really ill with some minor psychiatric manifestations alongside many physical symptoms. Rather than investigate what was actually wrong with me the GP saw late 30,s housewife and thought I needed antidepressants, despite me saying I was not the least bit depressed. The years after the citalopram where the darkest of my life, and o am still now only getting to the bottom of my health issues and understanding what went wrong. It turns out I had Lyme disease with co infections, and we now know I also have a rare disorder- mast cell activation disease- which may have caused the severe reaction. The internet is full of support groups for people who had severe adverse life changing events from this and other antidepressants. Share Facebook Twitter Report scubadoc ID2411130 8 Jul 2017 12:05 78 The internet is also full of people who think that Donald Trump is the Hand of God... ... it doesn't make it true. Antidepressants are both life-saving and horrible. Depression comes in many shapes and sizes: there is evidently a fear of admitting to depression. There is also a real confusion, related to the way in which some symptoms of depression are initially exaggerated by treatment with antidepressants, between the illness and the medication No-one should be afraid of reporting depression; no-one should be afraid if it's diagnosed. Drugs should be respected, but not feared: other treatments should be much more widely a available. Depression without drugs is the horror of Bedlam that we do not want back... may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs. DAW188 8 Jul 2017 9:54 1112 I too have been diagnosed with PTSD which in the past has led to periods of prolonged anxiety symptoms (to the point I couldn't even open the curtains in my home for fear of something intangible awful thing befalling me) which in turn caused severe depression. Twice I have been give SSRI's to 'help' by my doctor. Citalopram the first time, Sertaline the second time. All I would say to anyone who is taking these drugs is to be very very careful! I have never normally been suicidal, even at my most ill (just doesn't seem to be in my nature) but two of my paternal uncles and my Father all killed themselves before the age of 40. I was asked about this by both the GP's who prescribed me drugs and they still went ahead with the prescription. By the end of a four week course on Citalopram, I couldn't even get out of bed, which frankly even when I was at my most ill was not like me. So I stopped and recovered and was fine for around 7 years. Then I had a severe relapse and got to the doctor (new GP as old one had left the surgery) again and explained the problems I had had with Citalopram and so was given Sertaline instead. Well by the end of a four week course of that I was suicidal, for the first time in my life. In the end the police turned up as I had been reported as a missing person by my employer and I was very close to being carted off and sectioned. So again I stopped taking the medication. Within days I was no longer wanting to die and had begun to recover just the tiniest part of myself. When I finally got dragged to my GP (by my boss no less as she was so concerned about the state of me) I explained what had happened and also what happened previously with Citalopram and got the response "It can't of been the medication, it must have been a decline in your mental health that would have happened anyway, the SSRI probably stopped it from being worse" which is exactly what every mental health paitent wants to hear 'it's all in your head'. Hasten to say I swapped GP's at the same surgery, when I explained my family history to the new GP she recoiled in horror at what the previous GP's had put me on. She explained that for anywhere between 1-10 and 1-100 patients (apparently research is still undecided as to exactly what the number is) SSRI have almost a polar opposite effect to the one they are designed to have, leading to increased symptoms of anxiousness, depression and suicidal thought. One of the warning signs is a strong family history of suicide. I've learnt over the years how to manage my condition. Talking therapy, a good well rounded diet and exercise, meditation and being as open and honest with the people I trust about what is really going on inside my head. They've learnt the warning signs and so have I and it means now if I start to fall off a cliff, I or someone else can grab my hand and intervene to save me. I'm not saying medication doesn't work, it does, some people find it helps them in no end of ways to get that boost to overcome the obstacles that mental illness lay in their path. But I would recommend have a proper in-depth discussion with your GP before taking them (some GP's seem very quick to go 'let me write you a prescription' the moment you explain your symptoms). Also make sure someone you trust and who knows you well is aware of what you are taking and checks on you regularly (daily at least I would say) to make sure they don't see you declining. Often a friend, family member or colleague can pick up something isn't working before you can. Share Facebook Twitter Report BraceYourself DAW188 8 Jul 2017 10:05 78 I'm sorry but it can't have been the medication. Citalopram is not known anywhere to create issues like you had. I suggest other things were at play Thanks - take good care of old sport - a fellow traveller!!? Share Facebook Twitter Report DAW188 BraceYourself 8 Jul 2017 10:26 56 Citalopram actually now carries warning labels about its possible risk of increasing suicide rates (as do other SSRI's) and having now volunteered for several mental health charities over the years I have found my experience is far from a one off. As I said it does help plenty of others though. However I notice you seem very defensive about SSRI use (particularly citalopram) not a drugs rep by any chance? Share Facebook Twitter Report Loading… BraceYourself DAW188 8 Jul 2017 10:33 23 Paracetamol carries a label now. No not a drugs rep and hate the stronger anti depressants, they are soul sucking. There are many people who are a bit more up and down than others, more and more as the years go on. There is a valid place for this mild mood stabiliser. I'm defensive on something I've taken for 20 years and the over reaction and exaggeration contained within Share Facebook Twitter Report AonOlc DAW188 8 Jul 2017 10:37 12 Very sensible advice. Share Facebook Twitter Report mediaboy BraceYourself 8 Jul 2017 10:53 45 Thanks doctor, for your utter cluelessness. Share Facebook Twitter Report scubadoc mediaboy 8 Jul 2017 12:28 23 We are trained in cluelessness... ... although if Brace is a doctor, I'm Charley's Aunt... Report SubjectiveSubject 8 Jul 2017 10:01 12 After Grenfell, I had the symptoms of PTSD. The correct treatment for this is psychology and drug-free cognitive behavioral therapy but, psychiatrists will deceive people and give them addictive and dangerous drugs. Never trust a psychiatrist, unless they tell the truth about medications. scubadoc Wiltsbloke 8 Jul 2017 12:35 56 OK: but it is likely true that PTSD can be triggered by a perceived threat as well as by a real one, so objectively minor trauma can actually generate the syndrome. placebo effect. Share Facebook Twitter Report cassandrasshrink 8 Jul 2017 10:06 23 Dear lovely Deborah. If you're not already working with a sensorimotor therapist and doing some EMDR work it really really helps. Not a quick fix but the safest thing you'll find. Take care, be well. Share scubadoc cassandrasshrink 8 Jul 2017 12:39 45 Good grief! That took a long time to appear, despite being one of the major therapies: there seems to have been little mention of the importance of combining drugs with other treatments. My practice includes a lot of reactive depression and we rarely use antidepressants for it: GPs seem to use them a lot. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs. SubjectiveSubject 8 Jul 2017 10:11 12 Akathisia from poisoning and/or withdrawal is horrible and dangerous and often causes suicidal ideation and high risk of suicide. The fact is many people do not have the chemistry to handle these toxic drugs and here in the UK, they bypass the testing to see whether it is safe to give patients medications. Share Facebook Twitter Report scubadoc SubjectiveSubject 8 Jul 2017 12:53 45 I don"t mean to be nasty, but I'm worried about you: you seem agitated and unwell. I know that you are worried about medication, but could you contact local help, like Healthy Minds or the equivalent, of you can"t face your GP? If you were involved in Grenfell, then there has been more than enough stress to go around. You can refuse drugs, it's your body and your mind, but things sound very difficult for you. A discussion about the comtroversial subject of drugs in mental health isn"t a good place to get advice, as you are getting extremes of opinion and garbled evidence, even "fake news". Share Facebook Twitter Report SubjectiveSubject scubadoc 8 Jul 2017 12:57 12 My experience of Grenfell is being treated by professional therapy that has worked. My experience of medication goes back years when I was coerced and poisoned, suffering near-fatal side-effects. This is how I know the industry is a scam. Please don't patronise. Share Facebook Twitter Report SubjectiveSubject scubadoc 8 Jul 2017 13:01 This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs. Facebook Twitter Rep