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Dutch check in (The Netherlands)


LemonBerry

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Since I can't find a dutch check in, (or Im blind) so I decided to start one. If we already have one please feel free to delete this.

 

Im open to become friends with people and share experience with docters perhaps.

JUL 2011 - DEC 2011: Venlafaxine (no idea how much mg).
DEC 2011 - DEC 2014: Sertraline 50MG 
JUL 2015 (8days): Escitalopram 10MG 
JUL 2015 (3days): Sertaline 12,5MG

OKT 2015 (3days): Sertraline 10MG (Why do I fall for  this trap when I'm helpless)

 

Had no clue about Benzodiazepines

Occasional use of Oxazepam 5-10mg since JUL 2015 and with the Temazepam

AUG 2015 (16 days): Temazepam 10MG the first 9 days then took half of it,

OKT 2015 (4 days): Oxazepam 10mg the first 3 days then another half.

 

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  • 6 months later...

Hi LemonBerry :-)

Thanks for starting a Dutch check-in and I'd like to check in here. I'm from Noord Brabant.

Is there anything in particular you'd like to share about doctors?

Diagnosis: GAD (2008), clinical depression (2012), again clinical depression (2016) and ptsd (2016)

History of: paroxetine, lexapro, sertraline, bupropion, zyprexa, seroquel, nortrilen, oxazepam, lorazepam, diazepam, nortriptyline.

 

Successfully came off nortriptyline after a full year of tapering from 100 mg. Quit in May 2015.

February 2016 started mirtazapine, followed by levothyroxine in April 2016 (diagnosis hypothyroidism)

 

Current meds/supplements: mirtazapine 15 mg, levothyroxine 50 µg, diazepam 1mg (tapering off) and melatonin 5 mg.

 

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  • 4 years later...
Elisabeth1

Hi @LemonBerryand @sky68. How are you doing?? 

August 1988-Jan 2019 - 20 mg seroxat

Jan 2019-Jan 2020 - tapered from 20 mg  to 2,6 mg seroxat

Feb 2020 - 2,6 mg seroxat - First severe panic attack

Back on ssri: from sertraline, venlafaxine, mirtazapine to fluoxetine - no effect at all

July 2020 - tapered down fluoxetine to 0 - finally AD free after 32 years!!

Many waves and windows but I had no clue I was having withdrawel, untill:

Feb 2021 : 17 window days - 11 wave days

March 2021: 6 wave days - 25 window days

Link to post
DutchMaddy

Yes I am curious too!

1999-2000 1 year Fluvoxamine/Luvox/ stopped CT no witdrawal symtoms maybe 2 days brainzaps

2008-2018 10 years Prozac  30 mg. Stopped bacause I was getting depressed again, went to Pdoc en got Welbutrin cut down 20 % of Prozac

after 2 month when felt litlle better cut rest of Prozac. withdrawel set in.

2018- jan 2019 took welbutrin 150 mg, did not work, tapered off with taperingstrips in 4 month.

2 month AD free then started Fuvloxamine again on july 5th 2019

2020 added Lamotrigine 150 because it did not work.

march 10 2020 CT lamotrigine

April 2020 stop fluvoxamine with a 4 month taper

AD free since 29 July 2020

 

 

 

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https://www.parool.nl/cs-b435b85e

 

Eerste polikliniek geopend voor afbouw antidepressiva.

 

First policlinic opened in the Netherlands to treat withdrawl from antidepressants.

@Altostrata

 

  • I started using 20 mg Paroxetine (Paxil) in 2004 for stressrelated anxiety
  • I attempted several times to stop using Paroxetine, starting a few years later
  • I found out in 2015 about the withdrawal problems and 5-10% rule
  • I started using liquid Seroxat suspension in 2015/2016
  • From 20 mg to 12 mg, I went down 5-10%
  • From 12 mg down due tot withdrawal I was forced to take smaller steps (0,2 ml/4-6 weeks)
  • 09/2018 at 5,6 ml (11,2 mg) of Seroxat Suspension fluid
  • 11/2018 Switch back to 5,7 ml (11,4 mg) to reinstate
  • Started trying the brassmonkey micro-taper method end dec 2018 (0,03 ml/week)
  • Had to updose to 5,585 3/2019
  • Current dose 5,565 4/2021 after >1 year of withdrawal issues (several food sensitivities and conflicts with painkillers, caffein, chocolate etc.)
  • First goal to reach is 10mg
  • Also interested in bridging/poop out subject. 
  • I'm into sports, animals, business and economics
  • I'm involved in a collective claim against GSK in the Netherlands
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  • Administrator
Altostrata

What good news:

 

First clinic opened for tapering off antidepressants

GGZ inGeest and Amsterdam UMC have opened the first phasing out clinic in the Netherlands. The outpatient clinic will guide patients who need it to reduce the use of antidepressants.

Floor Meijs25 February 2021, 14:25

Quote

 

Of the million Dutch people who take antidepressants, according to psychiatrist and co-initiator of the tapering clinic Christiaan Vinkers, "a lot" stop tapering those medicines every year. “The vast majority of those quitters are doing well, but about a quarter of them experience problems with that. That is why we started this clinic from GGZ inGeest and Amsterdam UMC, to provide tailor-made advice on phasing out antidepressants. ”

 

The new phasing out clinic was launched in January. Vinkers: “We have put everything in place well, and we have now seen our first patients. So the first cautious steps have been taken. ”

 

Fear of quitting

The problems patients have when weaning from antidepressants range from fear of quitting or not knowing whether it is a good idea to quit to having made previous attempts to quit without success.

 

Patients can contact the phasing out clinic themselves or through their GP, which is located at the De Nieuwe Valerius location of GGZ inGeest. A multidisciplinary team of psychiatrists, nursing specialists, pharmacists and clinical psychologists works at that clinic. After an intake, it is decided whether a patient is allowed to reduce and, if so, how. The subsequent process can take place at the outpatient clinic, but can also be accompanied by your own psychiatrist or general practitioner.

 

Lack of knowledge

While there is a fair amount of knowledge about how to build up antidepressants, that knowledge is largely lacking when weaning them. Vinkers: “Everybody does the tapering of antidepressants in a different way, because little research has yet been done on this. But the little we do know all comes together in the knowledge and expertise of the phasing out clinic. ”

 

With the phasing out clinic, Vinkers wants to achieve two things: “Our goal is to help people as well as possible in phasing out and at the same time to learn from the experience we gain in this way. We want to bring that knowledge back to the GPs and psychiatrists, so that we are ultimately no longer needed. The best thing would be if we could eventually dissolve ourselves. ” In addition to gaining knowledge from practice, the phase-out clinic also participates in various national scientific studies into stopping medicines. Vinkers: "We can also learn from those results."

 

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Clairest

Hoi mensen, ik zie dat de eerste twee posts in 2015 waren. Lemonberry en Sky zijn na 2016 niet meer langs geweest op dit forum.

 

Maar Elisabeth, DutchMaddy en Sebas waren hier in de afgelopen week! Dat is hoopvol, ik ook!

 

Hartelijke groetjes aan jullie drie, van Claire in Leeuwarden.

2000 Saint John's Wort

2001-2020 Paroxetine 20 mg

november 2020 - february 2021 Fluoxetine, sort of cross-taper with Paroxetine

 

I started a tapering strip on December 13th to taper off paroxetine from 10 mg to zero in 28 days, last dose of 0.5 mg was on January 9th.

December 13th - February 11th Fluoxetine 20 mg (61 days)

February 12th - February 18th Fluoxetine 10 mg (7 days)

No Fluoxetine anymore since February 19th

February 21-22: started Saint John's Wort and reinstated 1.2 mg Paroxetine

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24323-clairest-in-the-netherlands-19-years-on-paroxetine/

 

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DutchMaddy

Dag Claire! Wat leuk. Ik reageer later even!

1999-2000 1 year Fluvoxamine/Luvox/ stopped CT no witdrawal symtoms maybe 2 days brainzaps

2008-2018 10 years Prozac  30 mg. Stopped bacause I was getting depressed again, went to Pdoc en got Welbutrin cut down 20 % of Prozac

after 2 month when felt litlle better cut rest of Prozac. withdrawel set in.

2018- jan 2019 took welbutrin 150 mg, did not work, tapered off with taperingstrips in 4 month.

2 month AD free then started Fuvloxamine again on july 5th 2019

2020 added Lamotrigine 150 because it did not work.

march 10 2020 CT lamotrigine

April 2020 stop fluvoxamine with a 4 month taper

AD free since 29 July 2020

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus
ChessieCat
Posted (edited)

Nomansland has kindly done draft translations of the AD Withdrawal Document.  German and French are in the process of being done.

If you speak the following language are you able to assist with refining the document/s?  Thank you.

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat

NEW!!!     INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder    NEW!!! 

 

Plodding along inch by inch:  12" = 1',  3' =  36 " or 1 yard,  1760 yards  = 63,360" or 1 mile

Current from 17 Apr 2021:  Pristiq 0.2665mg  now holding each dose for 3 weeks

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering Oct 2015 

My tapering program   My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)  My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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DutchMaddy

@Altostrata  @ChessieCat @SebasI regret to inform you about the Dutch tapering clinic. It seems better than it is. They are going to do trials. So one half gets a placebo and the other half of the patients gets tapering strips. Our Dutch organisation for tapering in Holland is mad about it because we already know that tapering is necessary!  They rejected strongly to stop what they are planning to do and asked them  to “just” start helping them to taper. Because now one half of the people will do a CT with their AD with all the consequences from that 😪

1999-2000 1 year Fluvoxamine/Luvox/ stopped CT no witdrawal symtoms maybe 2 days brainzaps

2008-2018 10 years Prozac  30 mg. Stopped bacause I was getting depressed again, went to Pdoc en got Welbutrin cut down 20 % of Prozac

after 2 month when felt litlle better cut rest of Prozac. withdrawel set in.

2018- jan 2019 took welbutrin 150 mg, did not work, tapered off with taperingstrips in 4 month.

2 month AD free then started Fuvloxamine again on july 5th 2019

2020 added Lamotrigine 150 because it did not work.

march 10 2020 CT lamotrigine

April 2020 stop fluvoxamine with a 4 month taper

AD free since 29 July 2020

 

 

 

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  • Administrator
Altostrata

Oh, that's terrible. That was not the plan I heard. I hope the outcry from patient organizations makes them change their plan.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 4 weeks later...

https://www.bnnvara.nl/zembla/artikelen/stoppen-met-de-pillen

 

Zembla reportage over afbouwstrips en verzekeraars die weigeren deze te vergoeden waardoor sommige mensen om financiële redenen niet kunnen afbouwen. Gebrek aan maatwerk.

 

Goed dat er in de media aandacht is voor deze problematiek.

  • I started using 20 mg Paroxetine (Paxil) in 2004 for stressrelated anxiety
  • I attempted several times to stop using Paroxetine, starting a few years later
  • I found out in 2015 about the withdrawal problems and 5-10% rule
  • I started using liquid Seroxat suspension in 2015/2016
  • From 20 mg to 12 mg, I went down 5-10%
  • From 12 mg down due tot withdrawal I was forced to take smaller steps (0,2 ml/4-6 weeks)
  • 09/2018 at 5,6 ml (11,2 mg) of Seroxat Suspension fluid
  • 11/2018 Switch back to 5,7 ml (11,4 mg) to reinstate
  • Started trying the brassmonkey micro-taper method end dec 2018 (0,03 ml/week)
  • Had to updose to 5,585 3/2019
  • Current dose 5,565 4/2021 after >1 year of withdrawal issues (several food sensitivities and conflicts with painkillers, caffein, chocolate etc.)
  • First goal to reach is 10mg
  • Also interested in bridging/poop out subject. 
  • I'm into sports, animals, business and economics
  • I'm involved in a collective claim against GSK in the Netherlands
Link to post
Elisabeth1
36 minutes ago, Sebas said:

https://www.bnnvara.nl/zembla/artikelen/stoppen-met-de-pillen

 

Zembla reportage over afbouwstrips en verzekeraars die weigeren deze te vergoeden waardoor sommige mensen om financiële redenen niet kunnen afbouwen. Gebrek aan maatwerk.

 

Goed dat er in de media aandacht is voor deze problematiek.

Absoluut goed dat ze er aandacht aan besteden. Volgende stap is dat het PAWS verhaal wordt aangesneden. Doordat het niet bekend is worden mensen weer terug op de AD gezet (zoals bij mij is gebeurd). Dan komen ze er alsnog nooit vanaf!

August 1988-Jan 2019 - 20 mg seroxat

Jan 2019-Jan 2020 - tapered from 20 mg  to 2,6 mg seroxat

Feb 2020 - 2,6 mg seroxat - First severe panic attack

Back on ssri: from sertraline, venlafaxine, mirtazapine to fluoxetine - no effect at all

July 2020 - tapered down fluoxetine to 0 - finally AD free after 32 years!!

Many waves and windows but I had no clue I was having withdrawel, untill:

Feb 2021 : 17 window days - 11 wave days

March 2021: 6 wave days - 25 window days

Link to post

@elisabeth1 de afbouw van seroxat is in jouw geval toch in behoorlijk korte tijd gelukt, voor de meesten is dit onmogelijk in 1 jaar. Hoe is het nu (april) qua waves?

 

Groet Sebas

  • I started using 20 mg Paroxetine (Paxil) in 2004 for stressrelated anxiety
  • I attempted several times to stop using Paroxetine, starting a few years later
  • I found out in 2015 about the withdrawal problems and 5-10% rule
  • I started using liquid Seroxat suspension in 2015/2016
  • From 20 mg to 12 mg, I went down 5-10%
  • From 12 mg down due tot withdrawal I was forced to take smaller steps (0,2 ml/4-6 weeks)
  • 09/2018 at 5,6 ml (11,2 mg) of Seroxat Suspension fluid
  • 11/2018 Switch back to 5,7 ml (11,4 mg) to reinstate
  • Started trying the brassmonkey micro-taper method end dec 2018 (0,03 ml/week)
  • Had to updose to 5,585 3/2019
  • Current dose 5,565 4/2021 after >1 year of withdrawal issues (several food sensitivities and conflicts with painkillers, caffein, chocolate etc.)
  • First goal to reach is 10mg
  • Also interested in bridging/poop out subject. 
  • I'm into sports, animals, business and economics
  • I'm involved in a collective claim against GSK in the Netherlands
Link to post
On 3/1/2021 at 1:52 PM, Clairest said:

Hoi mensen, ik zie dat de eerste twee posts in 2015 waren. Lemonberry en Sky zijn na 2016 niet meer langs geweest op dit forum.

 

Maar Elisabeth, DutchMaddy en Sebas waren hier in de afgelopen week! Dat is hoopvol, ik ook!

 

Hartelijke groetjes aan jullie drie, van Claire in Leeuwarden.

Hoi Claire,

 

Jouw switch van paroxetine naar fluoxetine lijkt redelijk soepel te zijn verlopen? Erell op dit forum heeft daar beduidend (!!) meer moeite mee. Hoe ging de afbouw van 20mg naar 10mg daaraan voorafgaand bij jou?

 

Groetjes Sebas

  • I started using 20 mg Paroxetine (Paxil) in 2004 for stressrelated anxiety
  • I attempted several times to stop using Paroxetine, starting a few years later
  • I found out in 2015 about the withdrawal problems and 5-10% rule
  • I started using liquid Seroxat suspension in 2015/2016
  • From 20 mg to 12 mg, I went down 5-10%
  • From 12 mg down due tot withdrawal I was forced to take smaller steps (0,2 ml/4-6 weeks)
  • 09/2018 at 5,6 ml (11,2 mg) of Seroxat Suspension fluid
  • 11/2018 Switch back to 5,7 ml (11,4 mg) to reinstate
  • Started trying the brassmonkey micro-taper method end dec 2018 (0,03 ml/week)
  • Had to updose to 5,585 3/2019
  • Current dose 5,565 4/2021 after >1 year of withdrawal issues (several food sensitivities and conflicts with painkillers, caffein, chocolate etc.)
  • First goal to reach is 10mg
  • Also interested in bridging/poop out subject. 
  • I'm into sports, animals, business and economics
  • I'm involved in a collective claim against GSK in the Netherlands
Link to post
Elisabeth1
18 minutes ago, Sebas said:

@elisabeth1 de afbouw van seroxat is in jouw geval toch in behoorlijk korte tijd gelukt, voor de meesten is dit onmogelijk in 1 jaar. Hoe is het nu (april) qua waves?

 

Groet Sebas

Hoi Sebas,

 

In 1 jr van 20 mg naar 2,6 mg... tsja ik moest het alleen doen en had geen idee. Vandaar de heftige angstaanval in feb 2020. Voordeel was achteraf dat ik uiteindelijk op prozac uitkwam, dat vergeleken met seroxat veel gemakkelijker afbouwen was!! Daar ben ik in 2 mnd afgebouwd van 40 mg naar 0 mg.

April was tot nu toe heel goed. De laatste 3 dagen af en toe koude rillingen en een beetje somber gevoel, maar dat noem ik niet eens een wave! 

Het enige "probleem" op dit moment zijn nog de onderbroken nachten. Die heb ik sinds vorig jaar februari helaas. Steeds wakker worden... waakslapen... dus moe. Maar dat zal tzt vast ook weer verdwijnen 🤞.

Hoe gaat het nu met jou??

Groetjes

 

 

August 1988-Jan 2019 - 20 mg seroxat

Jan 2019-Jan 2020 - tapered from 20 mg  to 2,6 mg seroxat

Feb 2020 - 2,6 mg seroxat - First severe panic attack

Back on ssri: from sertraline, venlafaxine, mirtazapine to fluoxetine - no effect at all

July 2020 - tapered down fluoxetine to 0 - finally AD free after 32 years!!

Many waves and windows but I had no clue I was having withdrawel, untill:

Feb 2021 : 17 window days - 11 wave days

March 2021: 6 wave days - 25 window days

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