nick1990: citalopram crap

[nick1990]

Hey all . 

 

Immediate WD symptoms seem to have mostly faded. Been able to do most things. Anxiety and depression pop up every few days but not too bad. I do find myself in a bad place mentally at the moment though. Although i am functional, i am really being hammered hard by this "OCD" style past thoughts. Not repetitive thoughts but digging up old stuff from my childhood and feeling atrocious about it. Like I've said it has been with me for years so i find it really hard dealing with it now cause I'm feeling so bad. Will this pass do you think? I can't get my head around it. Is this likely WD related ? 

 

Thanks. 

[nick1990]

Hey all

 

Things on the whole are improving - having some days of feeling almost normal , however the last couple days haven't been great. Definitely still some depression in there. And some derealisation. Should this fade soon do you think? I really hate it. Depression ( wd related ) is awful.. all in all though im trying to look at the positives. Im starting to realise that these negative feelings about my past are mostly drug / Wd related, and im starting to catch them before theY fester. Using mindfulness and being present. wd does make it hard though. Im also really excited about stabilizing fully and then doing my slow taper. I think its going to be great. I dont think being on these drugs has affected me as.significantly as others report. Other than increased depression and anxiety. And a decrease in creativity. Im really looking forward to becoming pure again. For my creativity and love for all things good and beautiful to return. To be able to think more clearly and feel more alive. I feel like in some ways, im luckier than people who haven't taken these drugs. They live one pure life, but I get to live mine again after immense challenges, with vast amounts of appreciation and knowledge. once im stable, I think I only have good things to look forward too.

[KarenB]

If there haven't been any changes or missed doses etc then it's likely a wave.  They can be such a dissapointment after a window. 

 

Gotta say, I love your overall outlook on life now.  You will get through this for sure.  Any more thoughts on visiting Australia? 

[nick1990]

Thanks Karen yeh still on the cards for sure - either that or go to Indonesia or the US for a decent holiday. But Aussie is most appealing , one of my best friend's lives there still. So if he stays there for winter I will join him

[nick1990]

I dont know whats going on. Been feeling really depressed over last few days over 'fake' child hood guilt. I say fake as I believe the feelings are created by wd and drugs. Today I had a little anxiety surge. So far it just was just one and lasted a very short amount of time but it scared the crap out of me as I havent had one in a few weeks what is going on ? Im feeling so down on life.now. this is not fair

[KarenB]

You can allow yourself to acknowledge the real nugget at the center of the 'fake' grief.  Just acknowledge it for what it is, accept that it's there, and remind yourself that you are taking care of things. 

 

Then, you can label the rest of it all as the w/d neuro emotions.  I think it's important to do both parts. 

 

You might need to do this quite a lot over the next wee while. 

 

Surges of anxiety are also very common w/d.  I get them.  Most of us do.  Not nice, but just part of it that will eventually be left behind again.

[nick1990]

Thanks Karen. Yeh on my "good" days acknowledgement is pretty easy. Im definitely getting better at it but still could do with some more practice. I just cant get over how crazy all these neuro-emotions are. They're actually so not real emotions! As soon as im in a window (Luckily most of the time) then i can make sense of everything - but all this logic is over-ridden when i hit a wave.  

 

I guess im just really exhausted after my main WD. I was at the very tip-top tail end of it and as i could finally see the light and this was over i made the stupid mistake of destabilising myself again.  Im just straight pissssed off . I know im going to stabilise again . I just hope its not too much longer ... 

[AliG]

Nick . This is " normal " in withdrawal.  Neuro - emotions tend to run riot !   It can sometimes be hard to step back and see this. You will stabilise again.  It will take , as long as it takes. There is no way of knowing , unfortunately.  As Karen said , it will be left behind , eventually.  You will get to that place , ( of light ) again .

Ali

[nick1990]

Well its been a month since my little mixup with dropping a tiny bit and then updosing. I can honestly say I feel like crap. The first 3 weeks after the drop things really improved again. Last 8 days have been some moderate depression and today I had an anxiety attack. I have some very minor tension in my jaw and feel mildly dizzy. Once again I am terrified, I spent so many months getting better and everything had improved so significantly. Now I feel depressed and anxious. The panic today just topped it off. What is going on ??? How is this possible?!? Please any help or advice would be AMAZING right now

[nick1990]

The reason im so concerned is because ive been feeling better for the last few weeks then to have this happpen is terrible. I just cant help but think that this is going the be a long road to stability. Like im back to square 1 again like I was 7 months ago when this hell journey all began. I want to get back to that place of light. Im finding it really scary. Again im having slight tingling through my arms. These waves aren't as bad as when my wd all began, but its a good 5/10 . Is it possible that I could stabilize soon?

[KarenB]

Was there anything external that could have triggered that anxiety attack? 

[Fresh]

Hi Nick , what you've described is the same pattern I've had in the past with my decreases.

The cycle I describe in my thread in Feb. 2015 lasted a month before I was back to equilibrium.

 

Initially I felt much better - my thoughts were clearer , mood improved , energy better etc.

I use the analogy of a wave , this period was the peak. Then things dipped - mood flat ,

worrying thoughts , need to sleep much more. This was the trough of the wave , the downside

of the upswing. And then , like the ocean , it evened out and reached equilibrium again.

 

This is why we recommend waiting 4 weeks between cuts. Many people feel so good after 2 weeks ,

they think "Hey , I'm fine , I'll go again". See the thread on "Dropping Dose and Feeling better"

here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/10989-dropping-dose-and-feeling-better/

 

Betcha you'll feel better in a week or two. Once you become familiar with your own w/d reactions ,

it won't be so scary.

 

Hang in there kiddo

[nick1990]

Karen - not that I can put my finger on. It seems I felt mostly normal this morning and then at about midday during work it hit. I don't like the cafe that I work at very much. But I really dont think that's what triggered it. I've been in a right down mood about life over the last few days and today just put the icing on it... I just want to stabilize and then get on with tapering.

 

Fresh- thank you for your insight. I think ive come to the conclusion that the last drop affected me quite badly. Even though it was tiny - I dont think I was ready to taper. I updosed straight away and I thought that had taken affect. Well I think it did. But to be hit by this is very out of the blue, if you know what I meen. I know I will feel better soon but it just feels like a real back peddle..

[nick1990]

I think the reason i get so concerned when I'm having a panic/anxiety attack now is because its how my WD all started. It started with panic. Intense panic. Like really scary stuff. And that seemed like the first step of a LOOOOONNNNGGG WD process - which eventually got better . If you get what i meen? Like i guess that because of the whole trauma of the WD that i experienced from basically the end of July to December, i think that a panic attack makes me feel like I'm back at square one of WD. Do some people have panic episodes from WD symptoms to them stabilize soon after ? 

[Petunia]

 I know I will feel better soon but it just feels like a real back peddle..

 

I'm the same, whenever I get hit by a wave, its like my recovery has gone gone backwards and I've lost all the progress I've made. I start to feel like I have to start all over again. But when I get back to my baseline stable, its usually a little bit better than it was before and I realize that it was just a wave and not a permanent set-back.

 

I think its one of the features of a wave that they make us believe we have lost all progress, but its not true.

 

Stabilization, just like recovery is not linear and one episode of panic doesn't mean anything more than a bump in the road to stabilization. Read through the windows and waves topic again if you haven't already. The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[nick1990]

Thank you Petunia. I think your right ! Panic is just brutal because it makes everything feel so dam scary. It physically cant hurt though I have realised. Well other than loose bowels haha.. im a hypochondriac . Always have been. It makes it rougher thats for sure. Its 11pm here. After my wave ended I drove an hour up north to attend a community meeting. Its bizzare how normal I feel now. I wouldn't classify it as manic. But just good. I feel happy at this moment in time. Relaxed and happy. Just really like normal!

[AliG]

Nick . You are sounding a lot better. I hope it keeps up for you .       You are learning that these symptoms can't hurt you .

Ali

[Altostrata]

Nick, how much caffeine do you ingest every day?

[nick1990]

Thank you Ali. Alto - I no longer drink coffee or ingest any caffeine other than cocoa powder. I dont feel im hyper sensitive to certain things like others on this site report. I feel that my WD is different. I haven't noticed an up tick in symptoms at any stage from ingesting certain foods or doing certain things. However I am staying clear of caffeine and alcohol.

[nick1990]

Panicking again . Not as bad as yesterday but definitely there. Do some people make.a lot of progress in that their symptoms fade to almost normal then be hit by a wave further down the line? Is this likely whats happening? Obviously my small decrease then updose affected my progress but I cant see that it would have pushed me back much ?

[KarenB]

I get this, though only in minor ways since I've been reducing by such low amounts.  I'll get everything faded away to pretty much nothing, then get a wave where the ringing ears, exhaustion, sleeplessness and dizzy/nauseous feelings come back.  Then they fade away again.  It's windows and waves - just like yours.

 

I do understand though that anxiety is particularly difficult as a w/d symptom, cause it pushes everything out of perspective.  I also get what you're saying about the anxiety making you fear it's all starting over again.  That's what is called a 'trigger'.  Recognising it for what it is will help, and then learning to put it in it's place and soothe yourself through it.  You can actually learn to redirect what you do once the trigger is pulled.  CBT and EFT are both things that can help with that. 

 

And think, if all of us here were sat down together in some big room you'd actually feel quite normal!!

[nick1990]

Hey all. Yesterday wasnt quite as bad as the day before and today is even better ! I certainly feel alot more normal today. Tiny bit of anx and racing tnoughts there but easily manageable. Im hoping this improvement continues thanks for all your support during that random wave!

[nick1990]

had a tiny wave of anx today.  But overall - when im not having a wave, i am feeling better than i probably have since all of this began. My baseline seems to be almost back to normal! The waves sure arent nice but i feel its a little bit of a last adjustment to stabilising. I have realized - as you all have said , that the only reason that i was feeling miserable about my childhood event, is because of WD ! And how it makes you think and feel. Once im not having a wave i basically feel fine! 

Cheers all. 

[ChessieCat]

That's good to hear.  Don't forget to re-read that post if it happens again.

[nick1990]

Having a wave today. Of anxiety. Dont know why. Not as bad as last weeks but still not pleasant. Been in a low mood for a few days prior to this. I just want to get back to that place of light. does anyone have any idea how long this will go on for? I feel like im losing hope

[KarenB]

It always comes back around to good places Nick - every single time.  Just read through your thread to see the proof...

 

I'm in a wave this week too - quite unexpectedly, and even with some fun new symptoms (numb feeling lip and tongue last evening).  I've been chilling out, watching old shows of Due South (with the mountie and his wolf!).  Had a few panicky spots, but just let them wash over me and away.  

 

Seen your mum lately?  She sounds a good sort... 

[nick1990]

Your right Karen I know I'll come around to a good place again. I just dont understand this slipping backward feeling after feeling so much better and seeing so much improvement over months. I just want it to stop. Im well and truly pisssed off with the world right now. I probably dont have enough patience but its so dam hard to try and move forward with my life when I have the backward lurches. Even though I am coming out the tail end of this all I am so angry! At the pain and trauma ive been through. This episode if my life is one episode I don't want to remember

[nick1990]

And im sorry to hear about your wave Karen. It sounds like your handling things very well though

[nick1990]

Another BAD day. Anxiety levels very uncomfortable, making me feel a bit unreal. Lose bowels. At work hahaha all I can do is laugh. Gone by the book basically with recovery and now im terrified especially when I have no.reason to be feeling like this. If id made a mistake id understand but I cant pin point one other than that miniscule descrease then updose 5 weeks ago. I want answers

[nick1990]

sorry for the angry little outbursts. Im just incredibly frustrated . 

 

I do have a couple of important questions id like to ask though?

 

Firstly - Between my waves of anxiety i am feeling calmer. I then at times feel happy/excited about small things. Like the sound of a song just makes me buzz. Also, when i hold a conversation with someone, and we talk about something and come to a conclusion or have a moment where i make them smile or laugh , i get this shiver down my spine - like a good feeling. Like one you would have when something great or beautiful happens. I have had these sensations many times over the years, but normally just with significant events, for instance my old girlfriend telling me she loves me or something like that. The last few weeks its been happening a lot. I also feel alot more motivation and passion about certain things and can laugh and joke and be witty. Sort of how your average person would feel if they're in a really good mood and have just had a red bull. But then when i get the wave of Anxiety, i just go quiet. Is this potentially the "Hypomanic" symptom? Or could it be that im recovering and starting to get good glimpses of how ill feel once fully stable? 

I have to say - it does remind me a little of how i felt when all of this began. The nasty anxiety waves, followed by good feelings. What are your guys thoughts on this? Im also more energetic once the waves are'nt there. And having some little anxiety spikes in the evening before bed, but sleeping well.  

 

The other question i have is this - Im weighing my 1/4 of a 20mg Citalopram tablet out on a scale. A cheap chinese one, but i also now have a Gemini 20. They both seem to fluctuate soooo much. Im looking to weigh my 1/4 of a tablet to 0.047g. Because a whole 20mg tablet only weighs 0.185g. Anyway i try for about 15-20 mins every dam morning to get it as accurate as i can. One moment it will say 0.044 then it will say 0.047 . I try and get it to weigh 0.047 twice in a row before i take it. But it really could be weighing 0.045 for all i know, What do you guys think? I make sure the windows are all closed and no draft. And i have it on a stable platform. 

 

Really sorry again for my little outburst i had the other day,

[ChessieCat]

Hi Nick,

 

"can laugh and joke and be witty"

 

And isn't it a great feeling!!!  I realised I was improving when I started chatting to my dog and cat.  Before I just didn't have the energy.  And laughing.  It's something that we take for granted and don't realise how much better it can make us feel.  I had a really good laugh at work this week.  The computer was going so so slow and I kept clicking trying to get my document to open.  Lo and behold about 2-3 minutes later they were all lined up along the bottom of the screen.  Previously this probably would have stressed me out and I would have been grumbling.  But not this time.

 

Have you thought about changing over to liquid?  Or tablet + liquid to make up the dose.  You can make your own:  making-a-celexa-solution-yourself

[nick1990]

haha it does feel good yes! It really does! Almost too good (maybe thats just comparable to all the harsh suffering lol) Tablet and liquid would probably be a great idea. Would make my mornings faarrrr less stressful and the scales really annoy the life out of me . I feel like throwing them against the wall half the time . Will look into preparing this weekend. Thanks Chessie! 

 

Something which is significant that i missed out on mentioning. . I was struggling with low mood a few weeks ago, and it was my cousins wedding. Reception time. I thought i would have one beer. I did. Then i drank maybe 3 margaritas. I got to a pretty happy place. somewhere between tipsy and slightly drunk. I never usually drink. I felt fine for a few days . And then it got bad again (worse than before drinking). I just read this that Brass wrote on the alcohol thread and was wondering if maybe this is the culprit behind this..

 

"It is a very common theme that someone will be doing very well on a low dose or a few months off and decide that it is okay to have a couple of glasses of wine at a party.  They have a wonderful evening and no particular problems the next day. Then wham the second day they are hit with the hangover of a life time.  But it doesn't clear up over night.  Of the people I have talked with they all feel that they have been thrown back into acute WD and it lasts three to five weeks before things start to settle down.  Even then it has set back their recovery by months.  Some times they are lucky and get away with a drink now and then, but eventually it catches up with them and they don't know what hit them.  It is best not to take the chance."

[KarenB]

You might be onto something there Nick, nice researching.

 

With the gemini ... it can be frustrating.  I find some weighing sessions go better than others, so I weigh a lot in those good sessions, till it looks like variation is creeping in for some reason.  I like to weigh a week's worth at once.

 

I calibrate, which I'm sure you do too, maybe twice to get to exactly the weight.  Then I start weighing, leaving it sitting for 10 good seconds in the tray before removing.

 

Then when the tray is empty I watch to see if the scales still say 0.000.  This is how you tell it hasn't shifted off it's true weighing.  If it's still 0.000 I weigh another pill.  If not, I re-calibrate (and re-weigh that last pill to check accuracy). 

 

Karen

PS Your anger is completely understandable - we've all felt/feel it.

[nick1990]

Thank you for clearing that up Karen. I think a liquid for the quarter would be easiest though hAha.. but in the mean time ill use your method of weighing. Little update. No real anxiety today. Anxious thoughts but no proper anxiety attack. Went for a run this eve and did a couple kms up hill and did not feel one bit tired. Wasnt out of breath at alll and could have gone and gone.. about 3 weeks ago I did the same run and it exhausted me.. what are your guys thoughts on this? Im nice and tired now. But during it I was like running on ecstasy!!

[KarenB]

I want answers.

 

This really stuck with me the other day Nick - cause I want answers too.  So I found myself thinking about it over the day and into the evening.  These are some 'answers' that came to me In my half-asleep state:

 

1.  Too many people have lost their humanity.

2.  **** happens.

3.  More **** happens when corporations are involved.

 

And then I had this thought from the sleepy-time thought-fairies:  There are so many instances, both today and throughout history, of people's spirits being greater than their cages.  And we can join in with that.  Nothing can ever stop the fact that there is goodness and strength in us. 

[nick1990]

So tired of using this dam scale. Im going to move to a liquid. Im going to make it myself. Im bad at maths. so ill ask someone who's better than me - Each 20mg tablet weighs on the scale approx 0.185 g - which i figure to be 18.5 mg. So i have been taking a quarter of that. Which i have been measuring at about 0.046-0.047g which i figure is 4.6-4.7 mg . So if i dissolve a whole tablet in 20 ml of water i would want to take 5ml of water - is that right???? I dont want to make ANY difference in how much im taking so i want to be as ACCURATE as possible! E.g if i could somehow remove the dissolved tablet from the 5 ml  and weighed it , i dont want it weighing 0.045, because last time i did that when not stablised i got a massive upping of symptoms.  I would really appreciate your guys in put. Thanks !