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nick1990: citalopram crap

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nick1990

Hey Tom mate,

 

Yep your right I’ll get through this fine , the trouble is passing the time when your not feeling well. I know deep down that in the near future I’ll be looking back on this thinking what was all the fuss about..

 

Ive been unemployed for 3-4 months now just cruising through each day and I’d say that’s not helping at all with my mood . 

 

I am busy for the next next couple of days which is good and am job hunting now. I know from prior experience that being busy is very important in terms of feeling better mentally and emotionally. 

 

Where in NZ are you based Tom ? 

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Tom37

Hey,

 

Definitely hard when your in the midst of it to think all will be normal again. I struggle with that on occasion and today is one of those days but tomorrow should be a better day.

 

Im down in the Hawke’s Bay which is a pretty relaxing place to be during this. We may not have awesome surf beaches like where you are but we have some decent ones. Have found the beach such a good place to relax and makes you feel so calm during all this so there often.

 

Good of luck on the job hunting but don’t let it get you down if it takes a while to get something and make sure it’s the right job for your current wd situation.

 

You will be fine just think of how awesome post wd life will be for you! And just remember that going through this is the biggest test you may ever face so be proud of yourself for how your dealing with it.

 

 

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ChessieCat

Copying this here for your own reference:

 

4 minutes ago, nick1990 said:

I will chime in on this one . After crashing and stabilising I definitely, certainly returned to feeling my normal self pre crash , with a bunch of new skills and mindsets . And then as I tapered lower, slowly , my WD normal improved through the process- i.e I was feeling better as I got lower. Definitely had some WD symptoms tapering slowly but they were manageable and short lived. 

I know all we want when we feel bad is reassurance on every level . It’s the anxiety. But honestly Tom , give it time mate & I see no reason at all why you won’t get to that place of light .

 

I haven’t “crashed” as such now, but am just going over a speed bump, a bit of a rough one as well  - but I’ve had the same thoughts , i swear it’s a WD symptom. However I am trusting in the process and know I’ll be fine . Mindfulness and learning about anxious thinking can help a lot and is something you can apply to life after all this WD stuff is over and done with 😊

 

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Tom37

Cheers  for that post Nick.

 

I asked that question not just for myself but for the others here going through the same thing.

 

It will give them (and myself) a lot of comfort and hope that you can return to feeling ok/good once stable.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

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Dejavu

I am grateful for your post as well, @nick1990. Having a very tough day today in particular. Still waiting to stabilize after 9 weeks and losing hope. As soon as one symptom calms, another new one pops it's ugly head up. Haven't had a real window since reinstatement. I don't care if it takes me forever to taper - I'll take it as long as I can function in the meantime. Right now, dizziness, weakness and tremor are making any semblance of normalcy almost impossible. Rooting for you too @Tom37!

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nick1990

Well im trying my best to stay off the forum at the moment and focus on my healing as I know that reading and re-reading isn’t helping in the long term.

 

Too be honest, I am struggling on an emotional/mental level. The neuro emotions are rampant and have been consistent almost for 2 weeks now. I think it’s just been an extended wave from having a very busy start to the year. I’ve had a day or two where I’ve felt pretty OK and not as symptomatic, and some hours of some days where I feel almost normal, but the anxiety and depression element has been horrible when it keeps returning.

I’ve been through it before and it’s not as intense as it has been in the past -  maybe a 3-4/10 on the bad days. But it’s still really tough.

 

I seem to be waking up between 630-830 depending on the light and feeling quite anxious first thing . This then tends to ease and I feel ok for a bit of the morning . Then by midday I feel a bit off, anxious, low mood, OCD thoughts. Typically by late arvo it eases and I feel relatively normal but wiped out. I sleep pretty well and then repeat the next day. 

This all started 13 days ago and hasn’t really let up since , although there has been some variation . 

Does this sound like it’s just an extended wave ? 

 

Any insight or words of advice would be great. 

Cheers, Nick. 

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Flowers

Hi Nick

 

I am no expert but the one thing I have learned in WD is that symptoms can change and take on different patterns which makes us think something different is happening and looking for answers!

 

You are  waking early with anxiety which is probably related to cortisol levels which are higher in the early morning. Alto has suggested using black out blinds or curtains to keep the light out of the bedroom - I did this and it has helped.  

 

It can be a pattern for some in WD that they feel better as the day goes on. If you have been battling WD symptoms all day it's no wonder you are wiped out in the evenings so it's probably best to rest. 

 

From my experience I would say that all the symptoms you have are from being in a wave. It is good that you are getting a bit of normality in the mornings so you get a break from it for a while.

 

You are doing well and asking the right questions on here.  When these waves drag on it is only natural to wonder what is going on.  When you are anxious or depressed can you pop out for a short walk somewhere - nothing too energetic! It helps me a great deal and clears my mind being out in the fresh air. 

 

I hope things settle down for you soon Nick.  Thinking of you.

 

Love and hugs

 

Flowers xxx

 

 

 

 

 

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nick1990

Hello lovely flowers ! 

 

So so nice to hear from you - I hope your doing well , I really do . 

 

Thank you, I will check out the black out blind situation 😊

 

The light walk exercise sounds like a really good idea , I will give that a go ! Thank you!

 

You are so right , this is just another wave , another aspect of healing !

 

It was a teary morning , feeling very pessimistic but this afternoon I am feeling so much better. Wiped out, but almost feeling calm and relaxed. My mind isn’t going crazy either. I’d say I’m feeling 90%  normal this afternoon which is great.

 

Just another wave, that’s all it was. 

 

Love and hugs to you flowers !

xo

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Flowers

Hi Nick

 

So glad that you have had a better day after a not so good morning.  Horrible how days can be so different hour to hour and starting days feeling low and anxious is just awful.  That seems to be the nature of this beast though doesn't it?

 

Good that you are going to give blacking out your room a go - I hope it helps.  Walking always lifts my mood and although it is tempting to stay in bed and pull the covers over my head when waking up to anxiety etc I get up and out for a while and it always works!

 

I am OK thanks Nick - having trouble with a benzo grrrrhhhh! - Shep is helping me get sorted out. Thank goodness for SA!

 

Hoping today is even better for you.

 

Hugs

 

Flowers xxx

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jozeff

Hi Nick, I hope you will be in a window soon!

 

These feelings changing during the day is very recognisable. I feel pretty normal when I wake up but around noon I feel pretty lousy, anxious and depressed. This stays until dinner and most evenings are fine. The crippling depression is the worst. Likey head glowing and feeling warm from despair and evil thoughts.

 

You will have to be tough and hold on. You will reach a new window soon!!

 

Cheers

Jozeff

 

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nick1990

Hi all .

 

Was waiting to post as I didn’t want to get ahead of myself but let’s start this update on a good note. I’m pretty sure that I’m stabilising!

 

I want to explain what’s happening so that some of you who are going through this chaos have an understanding of what starting to stabilise feels like.

 

Let me first say , I’m not yet “stable” but I am more “stable” than I was a month ago . 

 

Its been about 5 weeks since I last had a significant level of panic/anxiety.

 

For the last 3 weeks I’ve been waking with some anxious feelings/ fear etc, but for the most part they seem to have eased off in intensity. I’ve also had more moments throughout the day in which I feel relatively good. 

 

Im still having symptoms (mostly mental/ neuro-emotions)  but they’re not as intense as a few weeks ago . 

I also think that although I’m having moments of anxiety/depression/OCD thinking , the swing from no symptoms to symptoms are not anywhere near as significant as they have been , e.g - I’ll feel relatively good , then I might have a wave but it’s not too bad, then I feel relatively good again. 

 

So I think stabilising is happening . I’m still not feeling great , and having some real trouble with OCD thoughts and some sensitivity to emotional stimulus but all in all, I’m pretty sure it’s slowly leveling out. 

 

 

 

 

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Tom37

Really good to hear Nick.

 

You have been in this situation before so I’m sure you know what stabilising feels like compared to us doing it for the first time......hope it continues to get better and better for you.

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India
On 12/26/2018 at 12:49 PM, bubble said:

Very happy to hear that! There's nothing more empowering than having your symptoms clearing WITHOUT adjusting the drug. That's so liberating. You might still be having ups and downs but things will settle.

 

I was feeling so desperate at the time I started listening to Tara Brach - stuck in the middle of a so far 5 year taper and having my functionality even more diminished. Shep just lifted me up by saying we can see this period as time of building spiritual muscles rather than time when we are deteriorating and approaching realization of our worst fears. The idea that we can be happy no matter what by accepting things regardless of how bad they are was so game changing for me. I'm so happy to hear it resonated with you too. She has a lot of videos and all the topics are so relevant for us going through WD.

 

Hope for more windows for you! 

That's beautiful 

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nick1990

Little update -

 

Been having some really good days , feeling calm and content.

 

still having the odd low mood/anxious day here and there but it’s not too bad and more just frustrating than anything else.

 

I don’t want to go against the grain here, but I wanted to note that I’m noticing more and more that certain things that are said to worsen WD might not apply to everyone.

Its becoming more and more apparent to me that this process is VERY different for everyone. And I too am noticing that I shouldn’t be clumping myself in and comparing myself to people who are suffering greatly here. This does not reduce the sympathy I have for anyone here who is struggling , just that we’re all in very different boats , so to speak.

With that in mind , browsing the forum (as full of information and great knowledge as it is for people who need help) is not helpful to me specifically. I have found it more to be a source of increased anxiety for me more than anything else. 

 

Here is what I have recently found helpful to my mood. 

 

Personally, I’ve found that for the most part - exercise in moderation is helping a great deal with my mood. 

 

Ive also recently started drinking coffee and I’m pretty certain that it’s improving my mood greatly. 

 

Ive been spending a few hours surfing the last couple of days - its been great . Warm water and I have more than enough energy to do 2-3 hours at a time. 

 

Been eating lots , huge appetite - spent half the day yesterday out on the boat in the heat catching plenty of fish for dinner followed by a quick filleting session once home and then straight out for a surf before dark. 

 

 

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Altostrata

Good to hear, nick.

 

Yes, we know everyone is different, but we have to start somewhere with our guidelines!

 

Exercise is generally good. Some of our folks are too sensitive for strenuous activity, but sounds like you have found an enjoyable and healthy level.

 

We have lots of members enjoying their coffee. Just take care it doesn't interfere with your sleep. Should your sleep break up, reducing caffeine probably would be the first step to improve it.

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nick1990

Been a really good week for the most part. Was away up north with the family staying at a beach house. Have surfed for 8 days in a row (might make it 9 today). Been feeling mentally /emotionally quite well. 

Been a bit grumpy at times with my family but that’s situational- didn’t have my own space . 

Quite exhausted now , no surprise - feeling a bit low , mood wise - to be expected , but all in all pretty chuffed with how I’ve been doing. 

Cheers, Nick. 

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Tom37

Good to hear Nick.

 

Hopefully it continues for you.

 

Try not to worry about periods of low mood etc especially when it’s situational and wd can definitely instensify them if still not quite stable.

 

Keep it up.

 

 

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nick1990

Probably due for an update here. 

 

Been quite well. Still having the odd wave here and there, but all in all, they're much milder than even a month ago. Its still frustrating when they pop up as I've been getting impatient with all of this. Most days I'm having mild neuro symptoms - maybe 1-1.5/10 on the grand scale ! Occasional 2/10 when at my worst, but these seem to ease after some time and i feel mostly normal. So it seems the waves are far less intense now than even a few weeks ago - they're also not as consistent and I've had longer periods of feeling normal.

 

I should note, i have had some really busy weeks since the new year. I think these periods of busyness and over exertion and less rest have been contributory to some of the waves. Started a new job last week and not used to being on my feet for nearly 30 hours a week plus doing contract work on weekends. As well as surfing . I have been overdoing it.. This has resulted in a little wave and have been feeling a bit hopeless today and just p*ssed off.. Had a little cry to mum and punched the wall lol ! Symptoms have been very minor eye twitch every hour or two, feeling minor shaking in extremities every hour or two, low mood now and then, plus some gentle fatigue. 

 

All in all though I'm happy to see that theres been some good, solid improvement. Going to start my switch over to other generic in April so by then should be more stable. 

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nick1990

Just posted this to tapering forum:

 

 

After doing some research on the topic, it seems unclear whether or not the expiry dates on SSRI drugs are actually when the drug expires or a completely made up concept created by the manufacturers. Articles I have read state that many drugs are still good for another decade after their supposed “expiry date”. I’m not jumping to any conclusions here but am more interested in what some of you think. 

 

Im planning a generic switch of citalopram in April, but only as my current generic expires in May this year. I still have enough of the drug to last until the end of this year! 

 

 I’m currently in the end phase of my recovery from a little crash I had 5 months ago and am just starting to gain stability. I would rather not throw a generic switch into the equation just as my system is settling. However if the expiry date is to be taken seriously, then I will switch to the new generic. Hopefully without any issues. 

 

What do the chemist experts on this forum think ? I appreciate your time ! 


 

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Tom37

No idea on the medication situation but your 5 month recovery from your little crash really puts my struggling still at almost 4 months from a big crash into perspective. 

 

Good to see your almost there.

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nick1990

Little update:

 

I’ve had an interesting few weeks. 

Pushed myself too hard a week ago - 2 long days of work on my feet all day, then 4 days of surfing in the sun and a 6 hour surf lesson , it caught up on me and I had some symptoms pop up.

 

On a good note, even when the symptoms are at there worst , they’re only relatively minor . The neuro emotion aspect seems to be the toughest but I’m constantly learning ways to deal with this. Anxious thoughts, frustration and depressed feelings seem to be the pick of the bunch but they come and go . 

 

Looking back to how I was 2 months ago , I have improved greatly . 

 

The last few nights I have slept sooo heavily. I’m talking close to 12 hours sleep each night. I don’t have heaps of energy , but it’s slowly returning.

 

Im trying to make some plans for this year - one thing that’s become apparent to me is that the last few years I’ve just floated through life , surfing , odd jobs, travel - it’s all been nice and dandy but I’m craving something more - something to work towards. I’m considering going to study but unsure yet. 

My passion for photography has taken a big leap and I’m really wanting to pursue that as much as I can. 

 

In regards to drugs, I’ve decided not to switch over to the other generic yet.

 

my current generic “expires” the end of this month , but after researching expiry dates it seems apparent that it’s essentially a made up term and should be good for another 6 months ATLEAST. 

 

So my plan is to stabilise fully on my 22mg dose of citalopram. And then reduce to 20mg over a couple of months. Once I’ve done that, I can begin the switch over to the other generic . And then continue with my taper from there.

 

I have to say, these last 5 -6 months have not been easy. The emotional aspect of this period of WD has been tough . The symptoms have been so much milder than that I experienced in 2015/2016. I see this episode as being more of a catch up phase of the many, many reductions I’ve made over the last 2 years. It hasn’t been ideal at all, I’d far rather have had it wash out after each reduction but this is how its

gone and I have to accept that . I’m nearly in the clear and can carry on slowly from here.

 

 

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ChessieCat

Glad to hear that you are doing well.  Sounds like 3 steps forward and the occasional 1 back.

 

25 minutes ago, nick1990 said:

I can begin the switch over to the other generic

 

I think you already know what to do, but as a reminder and for any members who aren't aware of it SA's suggested method of changing from one form of drug to another (which includes changing manufacturer) is 3/4 + 1/4, 1/2 + 1/2, 1/4 + 3/4 of each combination for about 3 to 7 days.

 

Remember, do not make a reduction at the same time as the cross over.

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nick1990

Again, a quick, positive update.

 

Since im feeling quite well, i dont think of updating here, which by the way is exactly what i should be doing. Its important to post on all the positives, but we certainly dont and thats what gets alot of us down, reading constant negatives. 

 

Still not quite where i was before i had the mini crash, but pretty close to it. 

 

Odd symptom here and there, mostly light, mild physical ones and a bit of grumpiness and mild anxiety when im tired. 

Definitely stabilising though and fully functional. 

 

Anyway, if i dont post for a while its cause im just living my life, but ill try and come back soon and let you all know how im doing. 

 

Going to have a little break from tapering and playing around with generics but in a few months ill get stuck back into it. 

 

Cheers, Nick. 

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Gridley
50 minutes ago, nick1990 said:

Again, a quick, positive update.

 

 

A great update, Nick.  Thanks for checking in.  So glad you're doing well.

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India

Great. Enjoy life on the other side.

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nick1990

Just noting I’ve had a bit of a wave of depressed feelings the last few days which peaked this afternoon . Been tired too , after overdoin things again . I’ve generally noticed I’ve been doing better and not struggling with such intense feelings or waves - was hoping I’d turned a corner but this wave hasn’t been very nice to me. I’m sure it’s just another stage of healing and I’ll be back to feeling good soon. 

This whole 6 month episode of waves and windows is getting really old though after tapering slowly. I’d say I’m more frustrated than anything else. 

 

Trying to plan out a nice trip to Melbourne soon to go and see a lovely lady friend. Looking forward to that. Really really looking forward to withdrawal becoming a background noise in my life again.. how is it that two years of slow tapering and feeling good seemed to go so fast ! And this past 6 months has felt neverending.. 

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nick1990

Well yesterday was a good day, felt pretty much fine, other than a little tired. Today, feeling ok too, other than i just drunk too much coffee haha.. 

 

Anyway, wanted to write down some stuff that i feel i can finally write down after months of not being able to figure this all out.

 

First, id like to acknowledge that this last few months has been another true growing experience. Im just starting to see it for what it is. It ha been an awakening and truly enlightening experience. However this has only been made possible through the suffering that i have endured.  I should note that i am very grateful that i have only endured relatively mild (moderate at worst)  withdrawal, especially by comparison to what some people are experiencing, and you should know that i am truly sorry for your suffering. It really is barbaric. 

 

Although i am still not quite at the place of feeling "good" and still having some waves, i am starting to see things more for what they are. Just waves. No need to run or retreat. 

Im certain that given a little more time i will be free of these waves. It is hard to communicate through vocabulary what i have learnt throughout the last few months, but i am certainly on an enlightening path. I truly know that when i am feeling mentally clear and calm (and not in a wave) that i am in a significantly better place, mentally and emotionally than i have ever been. I just need to wait for that clarity and calmness to arrive. And i know it is getting closer. 

 

I feel that especially toward the end of last year, i was really resisting these waves and feeling victimised and scared and sooo lost. 

For anyone who does not know, i have been tapering SLOWLY from November 2016 until September 2018 after having a crash in 2015 from tapering too fast for my brain and CNS. During that period i managed to reduce from 45mg Citalopram to 22mg Citalopram, with only very mild symptoms, which i would recover from relatively quickly. I was very functional during this time. Feeling more content than since i was a child. 

 

Early September i had a panic attack after maybe rushing a couple of reductions ( I wanted to be on 1 single 20mg tablet by Christmas and so maybe pushed myself a bit hard with tapering whilst living a very active lifestyle) .

 

I was hoping it was just a one off, but i soon after became teary and depressed and emotionally a bit f****d up. Waves and windows. Feeling fine for weeks and then pretty emotional waves. This seemed to peak around Christmas time/ January and has since eased off significantly, both in wave intensity and duration. Still having some off days though for sure.

 

I was soooo confused about why i was suffering through this after tapering so slowly. I was angry. I had done everything i could do to avoid this. Slow, careful tapering, clean living, low stress, good exercise etc.. 

 

But then the other day i read an old post from one of this sites moderators, Rhiannon. 

And it became clear that even with very slow tapering, we can still go through these episodes - And it seems that not having long enough holds in between, these tiny drops accumulate and our brains have a bit of catching up to do. Im quite sure thats what has happened. I thought i was holding long enough, and was just pushing on, but i think an extra few weeks hold here and there and really important and a few months extra holding in between could have saved me from experiencing this. I know i have to go slow, but i managed to half my dose in 20 months, which i am really proud of. I don't think my drops were the problem (approx 1.25% a week for 3-4 weeks, often times slower and smaller drops depending on how busy my life was.) I think i just needed more breaks in between my reductions. 

 

I know that in a few years i will be on a very low dose of this drug. It wont take long to get to a LOW dose, even with longer holds (At a guess im thinking 3-4 years to get below the 5mg range.) So i have figured i really do not care how long it takes to be COMPLETELY OFF this drug. The effects of the drug will be soooo minimal, by comparison to my original dose of 60mg. And if it takes me another 5 years after that to be completely off it, then so be it. It is really not a big deal. My quality of life and wellbeing are much more important to me than rushing and paying the consequences.  If i could go faster then i would, but its apparent to me that i cant go fast. And to be able to reduce the drug at my own pace, and live a good life is a way better option. 

 

So yeah, thats my little write up for Saturday. If you have any comments or questions, please - don't be shy :)

 

 

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eymen23

Nick,

 

That was a brilliant post, you are right on the money with everything you said. These drugs can be incredibly difficult to discontinue and even with a slow and careful taper, there can always be difficult days and weeks that crop up. 

 

You have been patient, becoming more confident in your ability to navigate through the process and that can make all the difference. It is very easy to panic in the earlier days, whenever new symptoms appear or you feel worse. The first wave I experienced after making a cut, I really had to reassure myself that it would pass and at times I felt very uncertain. Now I have experienced several waves and afterwards found plenty of windows, I too have become more confident and trusting of the process. 

 

It’s not always easy to understand why symptoms have increased, especially in the moment. However, it’s best to listen to your body and associate worsening symptoms with a need to be consistent with dosage and timing, and to practice basic self-care. When you get to a point like yourself, where you’re less concerned with how quickly you can taper, because you’re starting to enjoy life and grow emotionally/spiritually, you can be sure that you’re in a good place and the chances of a successful taper are that much higher. 

 

Well done on your progress so far and try to keep up the great attitude, I really enjoyed reading your post. 

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brassmonkey

Excellent post Nick. I'm so glad it's all coming together. These flashes of insight are very important milestones. 

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Carmie

Hi nick, 

 

That was a great post.👍 Yes, holding is definitely as important as the actual tapering percentage. I’ve learnt that the hard way myself in the past. 

 

 Keep up that positive attitude of yours.💚

 

 

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