☼ Junglechicken

[Junglechicken]

Have just seen the following news regarding the suicide of a UK celebrity, who had been on ADs:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8007677/Caroline-Flack-dead.html

[apace41]

9 minutes ago, Junglechicken said:

Have just seen the following news regarding the suicide of a UK celebrity, who had been on ADs:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8007677/Caroline-Flack-dead.html

 

Very sad.  Such a shame.

 

Not to make light but any bets on how the media portray the antidepressant use:

 

1.  As a potential cause of her suicide or

 

2.  As evidence she was so depressed suicide was not surprising

 

Anyone who chooses 1 has not been at this very long.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Junglechicken]

10 hours ago, apace41 said:

 

Very sad.  Such a shame.

 

Not to make light but any bets on how the media portray the antidepressant use:

 

1.  As a potential cause of her suicide or

 

2.  As evidence she was so depressed suicide was not surprising

 

Anyone who chooses 1 has not been at this very long.

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

Yes, I know Andy.

 

And from what I read, it was her friends who revealed that she had been on ADs.

 

Unfortunately, more and more celebrity suicides are in the media these days.

[sunnysideup69]

10 hours ago, Junglechicken said:

Have just seen the following news regarding the suicide of a UK celebrity, who had been on ADs:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8007677/Caroline-Flack-dead.html

 

Really shocked me this morning....so sad......

[Junglechicken]

2 minutes ago, sunnysideup69 said:

 

Really shocked me this morning....so sad......

 

It is shocking Sunny.

 

I had vaguely heard of her, but it seems to me that more and more celebrity suicides are happening??

 

Or maybe the power of the media is just greater and so we are made aware more than ever before.

[Junglechicken]

Neighbour wants to paint their house the exact same colour as ours.

 

Demanded to know the paint colour.

 

Can't stand copy cats 😡

 

They have no awareness of the time, effort and money that went into getting the end result that they see opposite them.

[Giulietta]

3 hours ago, Junglechicken said:

Or maybe the power of the media is just greater and so we are made aware more than ever before.

 

It is another sad story, which people don't get the truth about - and can't add up the sum total of the parts - the trends amongst these people - as well as these drugs!

 

Kate Spade took her own life in 2018. She was on ADs. Article cites Kelly Brogan and success stories of people who cope/treat their anxiety and depression holistically (food, etc.).

 

https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/kate-spade-suicide-hormonal-imbalance-antidepressants-as-a-trigger-and-the-stigma-of-mental-health/

 

 

 

 

 

[Junglechicken]

2 hours ago, Guilietta said:

 

It is another sad story, which people don't get the truth about - and can't add up the sum total of the parts - the trends amongst these people - as well as these drugs!

 

Kate Spade took her own life in 2018. She was on ADs. Article cites Kelly Brogan and success stories of people who cope/treat their anxiety and depression holistically (food, etc.).

 

https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/kate-spade-suicide-hormonal-imbalance-antidepressants-as-a-trigger-and-the-stigma-of-mental-health/

 

 

 

 

 

 

I remember when her suicide was in the news.  Also, Anthony Bourdain who I was a great fan of.

 

Despite being such a sensitive subject, the article was very informative. In particular the section on hormonal imbalance around perimenopause/Meno/postmeno, and AD use, as I can relate to that very well.

 

 

[Giulietta]

On 2/16/2020 at 12:11 PM, Junglechicken said:

hormonal imbalance around perimenopause/Meno/postmeno, and AD use, as I can relate to that very well.

 

This is one of the 'commonalities' amongst a number of female SA members - use of anti-depressants was started around this time.

 

One thing that I read some place recently is the connection between low thyroid and mood. Low thyroid (at least in women) may occur more frequently in women during the perimenopause cycle. 

[Junglechicken]

1 minute ago, Guilietta said:

 

This is one of the 'commonalities' amongst a number of female SA members - use of anti-depressants was started around this time.

 

One thing that I read some place recently is the connection between low thyroid and mood. Low thyroid (at least in women) may occur more frequently in women during the perimenopause cycle. 

 

I get bloodwork done annually - so far so good.

 

Yes, I am aware of thyroid issues cropping up in the years leading up to "the change" and beyond.

 

My GP won't do a blood test panel unless I insist on it.  I think this is to do with trends from "baseline" state of health.  I don't agree with this for women aged 45+ though!

 

April is the time I usually get bloodwork done.

[Giulietta]

6 minutes ago, Junglechicken said:

My GP won't do a blood test panel unless I insist on it.  I think this is to do with trends from "baseline" state of health.  I don't agree with this for women aged 45+ though!

 

It's basic preventative healthcare! And it's inexpensive!

 

 

 

 

[Junglechicken]

1 minute ago, Guilietta said:

 

It's basic preventative healthcare! And it's inexpensive!

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly!

 

 

[Junglechicken]

Random throbbing pain has started up top left side of back under the shoulder blade area.

 

Either digestive issue or from upper body work at the gym yesterday.

 

Speaking of digestive issues, no let up. 

 

Still no word from ND which is frustrating, however, if I saw my GP, what would they prescribe for delayed stomach emptying??

 

On a random note, our neighbour is OBSSESSED with our front door and windows since they were painted.  Its getting ridiculous.  She demanded to know our paint colour, and got her husband to ask us.

 

Feel as though our every move is being watched.  She commented on our spring flowers, and promptly went out and bought a whole load to plant in her own flower bed at the front of their house.

 

Ughhh!

[apace41]

5 minutes ago, Junglechicken said:

Random throbbing pain has started up top left side of back under the shoulder blade area.

 

Either digestive issue or from upper body work at the gym yesterday.

 

So, JC, the related question in all of this is... how are you reacting to the discomfort, i.e., when you were last a regular on the board you had a high degree of health anxiety that went along with these physical symptoms.

 

Are you better able these days to contain those anxieties and have less rumination over the health issues?

Best,

 

Andy

[Junglechicken]

1 minute ago, apace41 said:

 

So, JC, the related question in all of this is... how are you reacting to the discomfort, i.e., when you were last a regular on the board you had a high degree of health anxiety that went along with these physical symptoms.

 

Are you better able these days to contain those anxieties and have less rumination over the health issues?

Best,

 

Andy

 

Andy,

 

Thank you, I'm asking myself that very question.

 

THIS IS MY THOUGHT PROCESS:

 

This could well just be a "transient" pain, which is common in WD.

 

Can I "float" through the unpleasant sensation, or will I let my mind get the better of me?

 

I know digestive issues can cause pains in the back, but so can pushing weights.

 

Attributing it to weight training is better for my mind really, but if its digestive, then perhaps I should see my GP?

 

Maybe I should get to the end of the day and see what happens?

 

I don't feel ill, I don't feel sick, I can keep food down etc.,

 

The lesson here is:

 

In answer to your question Andy, this is where I have to apply CBT.

 

Best,

 

JC

[apace41]

Based on your response, JC, you are definitely showing solid signs of healing.  A few years back you'd have immediately leapt to something dire being wrong with you as evidenced by the pain.  That thought process is something that we see driven by withdrawal-fueled anxiety and seems to get better as healing takes place.  When you are in the deep throes of withdrawal CBT may help at the margins, but it can't really touch the core anxiety that is fueled by the chemical cascade of withdrawal.  

 

Long story short, this is an excellent sign of how far you've come.

 

In answer to your question, this all seems to be very transient so rather than going to the GP and getting into another round of workups perhaps it makes sense to see how you feel once you get a few days further away from the workout?  I seriously doubt that a few days will change any digestive issue you might be having and, if it clears up as a result of muscle soreness decreasing, you've avoided some time and expense at the doctor.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Junglechicken]

31 minutes ago, apace41 said:

Based on your response, JC, you are definitely showing solid signs of healing.  A few years back you'd have immediately leapt to something dire being wrong with you as evidenced by the pain.  That thought process is something that we see driven by withdrawal-fueled anxiety and seems to get better as healing takes place.  When you are in the deep throes of withdrawal CBT may help at the margins, but it can't really touch the core anxiety that is fueled by the chemical cascade of withdrawal.  

 

Long story short, this is an excellent sign of how far you've come.

 

In answer to your question, this all seems to be very transient so rather than going to the GP and getting into another round of workups perhaps it makes sense to see how you feel once you get a few days further away from the workout?  I seriously doubt that a few days will change any digestive issue you might be having and, if it clears up as a result of muscle soreness decreasing, you've avoided some time and expense at the doctor.

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

Andy,

 

Thank you for your kind response 🙂

 

I agree, I would have completely freaked out with this pain previously.  It would have been catastrophic thinking coming into play BIG TIME!

 

The catastrophic thinking lasted for the best part of 4-5 years, and thanks to therapy and A LOT of help in various directions, it has calmed down significantly.

 

Agree again, that going to the doctor TODAY or even TOMORROW or the next day won't change my gut dysfunction in the interim.  Its not an "urgent care" matter.

 

Fortunately I have a therapy session this evening which will help 👍

 

BTW, its good to hear from you again after so many months Andy!  I have followed you off and on, and I know you're still suffering, and so appreciate your support even more.

 

Take care,

 

JC

 

 

[Junglechicken]

The good news is the throbbing sensation in the back was indeed "transient".  Strongly suspect it was GI related.

 

Other gut issues persist, sent another email to my Naturopath and hope to hear back from her soon.  Given her the low-down on protracted WD and "waves" again.

 

I have been most stressed out about our neighbour(s) across the road who violated my boundaries......long story.

[apace41]

On 2/19/2020 at 9:40 AM, Junglechicken said:

BTW, its good to hear from you again after so many months Andy!  I have followed you off and on, and I know you're still suffering, and so appreciate your support even more.

 

Thanks for your kind words, JC.  Yes, I'm still in the throes of the battle with some days fair and others not as good.  I've been able to work and retained my cognitive abilities the entire time so it's not all bad.

 

I still suffer from periodic bouts of health anxiety as well, primarily triggered by chest pains which I have on a regular basis.

 

It's a very long and arduous process and I, for one, am suffering severe battle fatigue as my friend, Shep, likes to say.

 

All we can do is keep moving forward and hope/wait for positive change.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Junglechicken]

2 minutes ago, apace41 said:

 

Thanks for your kind words, JC.  Yes, I'm still in the throes of the battle with some days fair and others not as good.  I've been able to work and retained my cognitive abilities the entire time so it's not all bad.

 

I still suffer from periodic bouts of health anxiety as well, primarily triggered by chest pains which I have on a regular basis.

 

It's a very long and arduous process and I, for one, am suffering severe battle fatigue as my friend, Shep, likes to say.

 

All we can do is keep moving forward and hope/wait for positive change.

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

I've read yours and Sheps dialogues, and so "battle fatigue" is a term I'm familiar with.

 

Know that feeling well, although I think you've been recovering from AD WD even longer than I have Andy.

 

"It's not all bad" is about being able to recognise the things we are grateful for on a daily basis, given the long-term effects of WD.  This is something I have to remind myself to do.

 

Having recently started doing yoga, there are moments of reflection and prayer which make this form of exercise a special experience during recovery.  It's strenuous, and I'm no good at it, but who cares!

 

Anyway, we're still here and functioning (able to earn a living).  I'm immensely grateful for that.

 

Best,

 

JC

[Junglechicken]

Gut is behaving so far today.  Did spinning and pilates this morning which has been my Friday morning treat.

 

My ND is on holiday (as I thought), so won't get to see her until March - no biggie.

 

Booked to have my mirena coil removed in March - phew! 

 

Looking forward to the weight falling away.  MANY women have experienced massive weight gain after having had the wretched thing put in, and not only that, but they are unable to shift the weight despite very strict diet and exercise regimes. Maybe I'll be happier for it too (hormonal mood swings).  I think I'll have to settle for heavy periods.

[Giulietta]

Hi there.

All positive news - taking control to make positive changes and accepting heaving periods - at least for the time being. I remember coping with mine and that they were heavier some months than ever. Glad you are ridding yourself of the coil. I heard only 1 woman say she was glad she used one. 😉

 

I'm thinking of a pilates class, myself.  Is this a pop-in class you take? Do you do e xercises at home?

 

G.

[Junglechicken]

1 minute ago, Guilietta said:

Hi there.

All positive news - taking control to make positive changes and accepting heaving periods - at least for the time being. I remember coping with mine and that they were heavier some months than ever. Glad you are ridding yourself of the coil. I heard only 1 woman say she was glad she used one. 😉

 

I'm thinking of a pilates class, myself.  Is this a pop-in class you take? Do you do e xercises at home?

 

G.

 

Thanks G!

 

Yes, no point in wallowing, when there is a solution.  When we put meds into our bodies, there is ALWAYS a downside, and I hope there won't be too many repercussions as my body rebalances itself hormonally again.  Fed up with being overweight.

 

ANYWAY, we go to our local sports centre which is 5 mins by car.  We have to book into classes a week in advance, but we're members so get priority.  The cost of any class we do is covered by our monthly membership fee.  Its a good deal as gym memberships go.

 

Pilates is all about breathing and subtle movements that actually work the body quite hard.  A lady doing the class today told me it was started by a prisoner at a Japanese prisoner of war camp who was stuck in a confined cell, and wanted to keep his mind and body fit.  Now that's impressive!  It was later adopted by dancers as a training aid.

 

JC

 

 

[Giulietta]

48 minutes ago, Junglechicken said:

Yes, no point in wallowing, when there is a solution.  When we put meds into our bodies, there is ALWAYS a downside, and I hope there won't be too many repercussions as my body rebalances itself hormonally again.  Fed up with being overweight.

 

Hi there. I find when MDs have offered me maintenance meds - I quiz them about all the side effects  - and they don't quite the nail on the head about the severity of these side effects. MD  also know I know I go o n a fact-finding mission - make myself anxious - about making a decision. So I need to rely mostly on them and not catastrophize about getting off them (ADs and clonaz are excluded).

 

52 minutes ago, Junglechicken said:

A lady doing the class today told me it was started by a prisoner at a Japanese prisoner of war camp who was stuck in a confined cell, and wanted to keep his mind and body fit. 

 

Good to learn about the general method of pilates in your words.  I had purchased a DVD to use at home and found it quite difficult. I had  trouble with the breathing. A teacher who knows hte proper technique makes a difference.

 

I understood that Pilates was invented by a German so I looked it up I was curious about more. From the article below he devised this for the bedridden people around the time of the swine flu epidemic in 1918. 🤔

 

More interesting background (see you got me on a roll!)

https://mindbodyhealthy.org/pilates-history-origins-principles/

 

Take care and have a nice one. I see it's early afternoon there.

 

G.

 

 

 

[Junglechicken]

7 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

 

Hi there. I find when MDs have offered me maintenance meds - I quiz them about all the side effects  - and they don't quite the nail on the head about the severity of these side effects. MD  also know I know I go o n a fact-finding mission - make myself anxious - about making a decision. So I need to rely mostly on them and not catastrophize about getting off them (ADs and clonaz are excluded).

 

 

Good to learn about the general method of pilates in your words.  I had purchased a DVD to use at home and found it quite difficult. I had  trouble with the breathing. A teacher who knows hte proper technique makes a difference.

 

I understood that Pilates was invented by a German so I looked it up I was curious about more. From the article below he devised this for the bedridden people around the time of the swine flu epidemic in 1918. 🤔

 

More interesting background (see you got me on a roll!)

https://mindbodyhealthy.org/pilates-history-origins-principles/

 

Take care and have a nice one. I see it's early afternoon there.

 

G.

 

 

 

 

Given the name "Pilates", I'll go with your version, lol!!  Hope you start benefiting from it soon!

 

My GP said at the time, that "if I were in your place, I would go with the coil".  She also said that it was safe etc., and didn't attribute my weight gain, and inability to lose the weight to the coil.....typical!  I read all the information about it, and spent months deciding whether to go ahead with it, but drugs companies ALWAYS under report side effects, as we know only too well.

 

Yes, we're early afternoon in an overcast UK.

 

TC,

JC

[Giulietta]

4 minutes ago, Junglechicken said:

Hope you start benefiting from it soon!

  LOL!!!

 

4 minutes ago, Junglechicken said:

My GP said at the time, that "if I were in your place, I would go with the coil".

 

Wonder if she tried it...or would recommend it for someone she cared for - like a family member....next time I have an MD get exasperated with me - I may kindly ask them about this so they understand my justifiable concerns.

 

I don't know if they still use them - but diaphragms are fairly benign and back in the day didn't affect hormones. 🙂 

 

Decent day here - sunny - but very cold. Thankful for the sun.

 

TC,

G.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Guilietta

[apace41]

2 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

I don't know if they still use them - but diaphragms are fairly benign and back in the day didn't affect hormones. 🙂 

 

Guilietta,

 

That brings back fond memories from 35 years ago when my wife and I first met.  We used to call it "the froggy trampoline."  Simpler times.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Junglechicken]

8 minutes ago, Guilietta said:

  LOL!!!

 

 

Wonder if she tried it...or would recommend it for someone she cared for - like a family member....next time I have an MD get exasperated with me - I may kindly ask them about this so they understand my justifiable concerns.

 

I don't know if they still use them - but diaphragms are fairly benign and back in the day didn't affect hormones. 🙂 

 

Decent day here - sunny - but very cold. Thankful for the sun.

 

TC,

G.

 

I don't know what her take is on it.  She lost a lot of weight herself apparently (before I became one of her patients), so I doubt she has one herself?!?

 

Anyway, I have the right to reject the damn thing as it is causing unwanted extra pounds which are unhealthy.

 

The other option she gave me was laser ablation, to remove the extra lining of the womb under anaesthetic.  Hmm, (scratches head), err NO!!

 

 

[Junglechicken]

9 minutes ago, apace41 said:

 

Guilietta,

 

That brings back fond memories from 35 years ago when my wife and I first met.  We used to call it "the froggy trampoline."  Simpler times.

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

LOL!!

[Frogie]

47 minutes ago, apace41 said:

 

Guilietta,

 

That brings back fond memories from 35 years ago when my wife and I first met.  We used to call it "the froggy trampoline."  Simpler times.

 

Best,

 

Andy

@apace41(Andy)

 

I’ve never thought of it that way. We used to call them raincoats lol...

 

Simpler times indeed.

 

I hope you are doing well 😊

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

 

 

[Junglechicken]

"The gut" has thankfully given me a break the last couple of days, although I had some reflux last night.

 

Seeing my ND in March, so will look at my diet under the microscope and do some gut healing to avoid doctor visits.

[Frogie]

1 minute ago, Junglechicken said:

"The gut" has thankfully given me a break the last couple of days, although I had some reflux last night.

 

Seeing my ND in March, so will look at my diet under the microscope and do some gut healing to avoid doctor visits.

Glad to see things are improving for you😊

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

[Junglechicken]

6 minutes ago, Frogie said:

Glad to see things are improving for you😊

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

 

Thanks Frogie,

 

I'm not holding my breath, but at least its some respite from the endless discomfort!

 

TC,

JC xxx

[Frogie]

1 minute ago, Junglechicken said:

 

Thanks Frogie,

 

I'm not holding my breath, but at least its some respite from the endless discomfort!

 

TC,

JC xxx

I’m glad you are getting some relief. You deserve it!

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

[Junglechicken]

Just now, Frogie said:

I’m glad you are getting some relief. You deserve it!

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

 

It goes without saying that I hope you are too!

 

TC,

JC xx

[Frogie]

Just now, Junglechicken said:

 

It goes without saying that I hope you are too!

 

TC,

JC xx

I’m doing ok, thanks😊

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx