redangel: Off Paxil and feeling apathy, anxiety and am cortisol spikes

[redangel]

Im hoping some day I will be normal.  I feel so withdrawn from other people and don't enjoy life at all anymore.  I'm not sure I'll ever be normal again as I've heard some people say on this site.  I used to be full of love and had fun and enjoyment out of life.  Now I'm not sure if I even want to live.  I dread the start of each new day when I should be thanking God I have a new day! I've gotten off ad's a couple other times in the last 20 yrs but always gotten back on because of feeling like this.  Now 7mths out I feel I should be better but life still sucks!  It is hurting my faith in God, my faith in other people.  And I hate going to doctors now because they all want me back on meds.  Except my therapist is supportive of me being drug free. If any body here could send me some encouragement that this to shall end, it would be great cause I've read on here some people still 5 yrs out still having the same issues as when they first got off ad's. I'm so afraid I'll give in and go back on the ad's and Id hate that after the horrible withdrawal I had.  

[Petunia]

Welcome redangel,

Thank you for posting an introduction and for filling in your signature, that helps us to help you. If you would add the approximate date you stopped Paxil, that would be great.

 

Am I understanding this correctly? You did a 6 month taper off Paxil 7 months ago, after having been on various antidepressants for about 20 years. Now, after 7 months, you are still not feeling well.

 

What symptoms are you having? In general, are they getting worse, better or staying about the same?

 

We have many members here who are tapering off Paxil, and other drugs over the course of several years. It can often be the case that tapers need to be extremely slow in order to avoid withdrawal symptoms from emerging.

 

In your situation, after 7 months of being drug free, I'm not surprised that you are still getting some symptoms. After such a long drug history and a short taper, its going to take a little longer for you to recover, but you will get better. Usually recovery from psyche meds happens in a windows and waves kind of pattern, with improvement being seen over the course of months, rather than days or weeks.

 

See:The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

In some of your posts, you have mentioned that you're considering going back on the meds, but this far out, there's no guarantee they would work for you again. What was the last dose of Paxil you took before stopping?

 

I'd highly recommend reading Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker. Psych meds can cause harmful side effects and long term, they can worsen health, increasing the risk of other illnesses. In my opinion they  should only be used for short times and very cautiously, if at all.

 

The best I can offer by way of advice is to listen to your body and avoid those things that set off symptoms as much as possible. Aside from a high quality fish oil and magnesium, avoid supplements until you are further along in your recovery. (See King of Supplements: Omega 3 Fatty Acids (Fish Oil) and Magnesium, Nature's Calcium Channel Blocker). They've been helpful to many of us.

 

You can use this thread as your ongoing journal to track progress, write about symptoms, ask questions and communicate with the community, add to it whenever you want. Its a good idea to bookmark it or follow it, so its easy to find again. I’m glad you found us, we’re here to support you.

 

Petunia.

[redangel]

Thank you Petunia.  I do know I tapered to fast now.  7mths ago I ended with cutting 10 mill into fourths and had been taking the 4th every other day for a month before I quit.  A couple times after I just slivered a piece off and took and couple times.  But for 7mths haven't had any at all.  The worst symptoms have been difficulty sleeping, apathy, and irritability.  Everything gets on my nerves. And before ad's I had nerves of steel! Im also wanting to avoid people and just stay shut up in my apt.  But with still having two teenage grand children that Ive been raising that is not possible.  I was also my Moms only caretaker, she is a hospice patient, and had to put her in a assisted living home because after I quit paxil I couldn't handle taking care of her any more,  But she is close and I do go visit her often. So I do force myself to get out some. As well as every day I walk for about 30 minutes.  Very happy I live in Arizona and not wading through snow.!!!!!Any advice on these crazy emotions, getting angry easy, and all that, I appreciate.  I never even knew about nuro emotions and cortisol spikes till I found this forum!  Thank God I found ya'll cause I was thinking I was totally losing it! 

[manymoretodays]

Ta da!!!!!  I found your intro. today. 

[nz11]

I've read on here some people still 5 yrs out still having the same issues as when they first got off ad's

 

did someone say 5 yrs off.

Well yes i still have issues but they get better with time ...except for pssd that got worse with time. Im hoping it resolves in the next month or two though.

 

Many report improvements in yr 1-2 and more so in yrs 2-3 and a whole heap of improvements in 3-5. So yeah in time it gets better.

Sorry you have to go through this.

I just wanted to say there is a big 'anger' phase to go through to you may not hit that but if you do that too will pass. It is part of the wdl.

Hang in there. This is a long journey.Healing happens if you stay drug free.

[KLA324]

Hi Redangel - welcome to SA but sorry for the "need" to be here.

 

I agree that the AM cortisol spikes make each day very unbearable. Hopefully they won't last long for you...mine have eased up and I thank God each day when I wake up that I am able to get out of bed and function plus go to work. It may help you to get out of bed as soon as your eyes open and do a bit of exercise...50 jumping jacks or the like...which could possibly help calm things down.

 

Some of your stress may also be occurring due to the responsibilities you have with raising your grandchildren - I know mine was. Try to take time for yourself and allow things to *slip* for awhile...like housework and cooking every night. If they are teens how about giving them more responsibility to do things around the house to help you?

 

Sending healing thoughts your way,

Karen

[redangel]

KLA, Ya Im trying to get them to take more responsibility but so far it's been a no go.  My grand daughter is still in high school, her senior year and working part time.  Grand son is 18 and if he dont start doing more he is going to find a diff place to call home.  He does work but still he could pic up his laundry and make his bed, which is in my living room.  And yes, the anger has hit!!!  I go into a rage over stuff that used to never bother me.  Yesterday I ended up in the hospital because of my heart arrythmia.  They  kept me overnight to do test and I got home this am and sink full of dishes and grand sons dirty clothes all over the house.  But I did find out I'm low in potassium so getting a supplement of that might help a lot of things.  

[redangel]

I am doing better for the last week.  I know this is probably a good window but still am thankful for it.  I've actually been able to cry a couple times and crying is not something I've done easily the last few years.  The main emotion Ive felt was anger. I'm still not feeling lots of the good emotions yet but I think they are starting to come back a little bit at a time. Still cannot sleep without help. I feel a little more hopeful that I will recover.  I used to be very smart, have a excellent memory, lots of energy.  I am looking forward to that again. 

[KarenB]

Hi Redangel,

 

Glad to hear you're enjoying a window - that's a good sign of healing.  You will gradually find more and more of 'you' coming back.  Have you read the thread about sleep?  You might find some ideas there.

 

KarenB

[redangel]

I did read that thread about sleep.  I've had insomnia every since I can remember and nothing seems to help.  i've took every sleep aid on the market, natural and not natural.  I've been trying the magnesium baths with lavender oil in it but so far that only helps me relax somewhat but not fall asleep.  I've blacked out my bedroom, done all the sleep hygiene advice and still will lay awake all night.  Can do that several nights in a row till finally I'll doze a couple hours.  Then im left miserable all day'm because I sleep deprived.  Don't know how people deal with this. I need more sleep then that to be mentally healthy 

[KarenB]

Yup, and that doesn't feel good - that 'tried everything' situation.  Frustrating for you.  Because each person's experience of w/d can be so different it's hard to say how long it will take for your sleep situation to heal.  Yes, for some it takes years, but for others it happens more quickly.  So many of us are really just hanging in there, day by day (or night by night), and it's not pleasant.

 

Personally, mine has improved a fair way over the last 6 months of tapering, but can still get worse again when I'm in a wave (i.e. right now...)  

 

The healing will happen, I'm just sorry it's so hard while you are in it and waiting.  You are not alone.

 

KarenB 

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi redangel, 

 

I'm glad you found this place!  I am so glad that you are in a sort of window :-)  I have a friend who is on here who is in her 18th month of withdrawal after a fast taper off of Lexapro, and when I first met her at month 12 she was still in the grip of fear, badly - lots of pain and anxiety, hypochondria, insomnia.  She had been housebound early on in withdrawal.  All of October, she was in such a great window, we thought it might be over!  No fear, sleeping 8 hours, etc.  But, then another wave came, not so bad, though.  So, at 7 months and feeling a little better, maybe yours will go faster!

 

I have found Emotional Freedom Techniques, EFT, "tapping," to be helpful when I have insomnia.  You can google it.  I state "even though I can't sleep, I deeply and completely love and accept myself."  The reminder phrase is "can't sleep" as I tap the acupressure points. Usually takes a few rounds, but by the third it's like counting sheep and I doze off.  Worth a try along with everything else.  

 

I think it is key to stop the ruminating that goes on in insomnia, and maybe the tapping is a way of doing that.  Also, mindfulness meditation, where you focus on body parts, working your way over your body ie. right big toe, ball of right foot, right heel, right calf, behind right knee, etc.

 

Just know that you are not alone, and do whatever you can to interrupt troubling thoughts such as "I can't take it if I'm going to be like this forever."  Literally, you must take one day at a time, one moment at a time.  At this moment, I'm ok - I can handle this.  

 

SG

[Altostrata]

Welcome, redangel.

 

Have you tried acupuncture? You may also wish to take up meditation. These can be very helpful for relaxation.

 

How often are you taking Unisom?

 

Have you had your thyroid medications adjusted recently? Going off drugs can make a difference in thyroid status.

[redangel]

I take unisom every other night.  The alternate nights I take vistaril.   And I cannot afford acupuncture.  There are some meditations on the quiet mind cafe that I do at night.  They help.  And  I get my thyroid levels tested every 3 mths. Thanks everyone for your replies and advise.  And tonight I will try the eft.  

[apace41]

Ask and ye shall receive Redangel.  Here is a youtube video by a guy who specializes in acupressure.  For those who want the benefits of acupuncture but can't find or afford someone, this is definitely worth a shot.  I picked out the one on insomnia for you, but he has numerous on many other issues such as pain, etc.

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1w5h0GGPpE

[redangel]

I just watched this and will for sure try it tonight. Thanks.  Ya'll are great!  Been having a bad day but am hanging on because tomorrow might be a good day!

[redangel]

And does Ashwaganda, help with sleep? 

[redangel]

Woke up having another bad day.  Just woke up feeling anxious and wishing I could stay in bed and sleep all day.  Just know that I cant cause once I wake up I can never go back to sleep. Guess just going through a bad window this time.

[redangel]

anxiety is very bad.  Need to go to the store but don't feel well enough.  I forgot to put in my signature that I take a beta blocker for heart arrhythmia.  The heart doctor said if I don't take it  my heart can be permanently damaged.  Could this be making symptoms worse?  I take 25 mg metoprolol er 2 times a day  . Any ideas?  Or what I can take in its place that doesn't cause problems?  

[apace41]

And does Ashwaganda, help with sleep? 

 

Ashwaganda is an adaptogen which helps relieve stress when you are stressing and give you energy when you are tired.  It isn't necessarily a sleep aid but it might help you relax.  Melatonin is a more frequent option.

 

Here is a link on Ashwaganda:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4713-ashwagandha-herb-for-anxiety-stress-and-toxic-overload/?hl=ashwaganda#entry58992

 

Best,

 

Andy

[apace41]

anxiety is very bad.  Need to go to the store but don't feel well enough.  I forgot to put in my signature that I take a beta blocker for heart arrhythmia.  The heart doctor said if I don't take it  my heart can be permanently damaged.  Could this be making symptoms worse?  I take 25 mg metoprolol er 2 times a day  . Any ideas?  Or what I can take in its place that doesn't cause problems?  

 

Sorry you are having a difficult day.  Have you tried simple things like lavender oil, chamomile tea, breathing and meditation?  Those can help you relax and get out the anxiety zone.

 

Metoprolol is frequently used as a calming agent.  While it interacts with Paxil as follows:

 

Using metoprolol together with PARoxetine may increase the effects of metoprolol. Contact your doctor if you experience uneven heartbeats, shortness of breath, bluish-colored fingernails, dizziness, weakness, fainting, or seizure (convulsions). If your doctor does prescribe these medications together, you may need a dose adjustment or special test to safely use both medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

That should not be an issue since you are off the Paxil.  Is it possible that it will cause a paradoxical effect?  Sure.  We never know with our CNS compromised in withdrawal, but it would seem unlikely.  More likely is that you are simply having the day to day ups and downs that come with the process of going off Paxil.

 

Without knowing what kind of arrhythmia you have it is hard to assess the statement that you could get heart damage if you don't take it (not that I'm a cardiologist in any event).  You should call your cardio and discuss is if you want to consider a switch in meds.  In my view not likely that is the issue.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[redangel]

Thanks for the feedback.  Im on the med for general heart arrhythmia and heart rates, that showed on the halter when up to 180 beats a minute sometimes. I always have low blood pressure so I have to be careful not let it get to low.  

[redangel]

And I did just drink a cup of sleepy time tea and doesn't seem to make a difference.  I maybe should try a bath with epsom salt and lavender oil.  Might help

[redangel]

Nope, didn't help

[MollyN]

argh I was there with you last night in the land of Sleeplessness. I hope your day offers a chance to rest xxx

[redangel]

This stuff sucks huh?

[redangel]

For some reason I cant rest.  To restless for some reason

[SquirrellyGirl]

I have found it hard to take naps when feeling so tired during the day.   A friend who is on here told me that seems to be a common problem in WD, the inability to nap.  

 

I do just hunker in and distract myself with TV shows on those anxiety days, but some can't do that.  Just keep reminding yourself that this is all a sign of healing!

 

SG

[apace41]

Thanks for the feedback.  Im on the med for general heart arrhythmia and heart rates, that showed on the halter when up to 180 beats a minute sometimes. I always have low blood pressure so I have to be careful not let it get to low.  

 

That's a little confusing, redangel.  Lopressor (metoprolol) is usually used to treat HIGH blood pressure and has the effect of lowering blood pressure.  If your pressure being too low is an issue that seems to be an odd choice?

 

Perhaps a further discussion with the cardio makes sense?

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

 

[redangel]

I did apace.  He said that beta blockers were used for irregular heart beats also.  I have to drink lots of electrolytes to help keep my blood pressure  up somewhat.   I know, it sounded weird to me also.  And squirrellygirl,thats just what Ive been doing, watching Bones re runs!  Im supposed to be taking my mom christmas shopping as well as finishing the things Im crocheting for my sons for christmas but just cannot concentrate enough. My Mom doesn't have the strength to do anything so I have to push her in her wheel chair for her to go anyplace and I just cant today. Sometimes I get so mad at myself for even being on those meds to start with!  

[redangel]

Whats with eye floaters?  I just thought I was being attacked by gnats! 

[apace41]

Yup. Very common.

 

Search "Floaters" in "Symptoms". You are not alone. The overwhelming rmajority of sufferers see them resolve.

 

Andy

[redangel]

I need some advice please.  two weeks ago my endocrinologist did a test for my pituitary gland.  Today I got the results and the test show I have very low human growth hormone.  So after they get approval  from my insurance and do a mri to c if there is a tumor on it I am supposed to take a shot every day of the growth hormone.    My fear is this, that it will be to activating for me like most supplements are now.  I know that it will help the depression, anxiety, sleep and I should have tons more energy.  But im scared any way because Im not trusting docs any more

[apace41]

Redangel,

 

This is a difficult one for us to answer on this board.  Is it possible the Growth Hormone injections would be activating in withdrawal?  Yes -- anything can be activating to a sensitized central nervous system.  We know about the benefits for most of Omega 3s and Magnesium but even those can have a paradoxical effect for some.  So, there is no way I can tell you that you definitely won't  react to the injections. 

 

However, I/we are not doctors and can't determine how important the receiving of injections will be in light of a tumor (should there be one).  If it is critical and potentially life-saving or altering to have the treatment, I would not feel comfortable telling you not to get the treatment.  If it is "optional" and you might feel better or you might feel worse, I would say that would be your call and whether the chance of improvement outweighed the fear of feeling worse (the same decision we all face with any supplemental medicine). 

 

You need to have a very complete discussion with your doctor to understand all the ins and outs of this and, if you still don't feel comfortable, seek a second opinion.

 

Hope that helps some, Red.

 

Andy

[redangel]

Thanks Andy.  I know my doc thinks i really need it.  My hormone levels are supposed to be a 5. something and are only 1.  She says this is probably why I had depression to start with and why I have very bad chronic fatigue, bad memory problems and a host of other symptoms.  But we already know how docs will sometimes get us on meds we can actually to without because they get kick backs from the pharms.  Ive also been researching the possible side effects of the growth hormone treatments and they can cause some of the stuff they are supposed to cure. Plus having to give myself a shot every day is just plain scary for me. 

[apace41]

Thanks Andy.  I know my doc thinks i really need it.  My hormone levels are supposed to be a 5. something and are only 1.  She says this is probably why I had depression to start with and why I have very bad chronic fatigue, bad memory problems and a host of other symptoms.  But we already know how docs will sometimes get us on meds we can actually to without because they get kick backs from the pharms.  Ive also been researching the possible side effects of the growth hormone treatments and they can cause some of the stuff they are supposed to cure. Plus having to give myself a shot every day is just plain scary for me. 

 

I've seen a lot of people have miraculous recoveries from pituitary tumors with treatment so I would think it is something where the doc is not just "making it up."  As far as self-administering shots, I had to do that with a blood thinner for a while and you get used to it.  Honestly.

 

Best,

 

Andy