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On Pain and Suffering


oskcajga

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I will start this topic with a quote.

 

"Suffering will never be completely absent from our lives. So don’t be afraid of suffering. Your suffering is a great means of love, if you make use of it, especially if you offer it for peace in the world. Suffering in and of itself is useless, but suffering that is shared with the passion of Christ is a wonderful gift and a sign of love. Christ’s suffering proved to be a gift, the greatest gift of love, because through his suffering our sins were atoned for.

Suffering, pains sorrow, humiliation, feelings of loneliness, are nothing but the kiss of Jesus, a sign that you have come so close that He can kiss you."

Mother Teresa

 

---------------

Throughout my own experience through untold months of pain and suffering, I remembered deep down that there was profound meaning in my trials and tribulations.  During the most difficult periods, it was the hope that some day I would emerge from this and be able to help others and have a greater appreciation for life that kept me from giving up.  It's from quotes like this one that I once studied when I was younger, that produced a foundation of wisdom that I believe has allowed me to accomplish as much as I have throughout this experience. 

 

The more I heal the more I realize that this experience has been one of tremendous personal and spiritual growth - and although much material success and pleasure has been lost, I've gained a great deal of wisdom and humility.

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Can't agree more.

Thanks for starting the topic.

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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  • Moderator Emeritus
A wise man once told me that "Pain and suffering is the touchstone for all spiritual progress".

 

I wanted to copy your quote from another thread because this has been true for me also.

 

I've half-heatedly been on a spiritual path for most of my life, but without understanding the true nature of the path and what progress actually means. I was wanting the bliss, freedom, love and light, without having to deal with my darker shadow side, thinking that I could find gold by looking up into the clouds.

 

The last few years of intense pain and suffering has brought me right back into myself and my body. I've been forced to keep still as this process has painfully peeled away layers and layers of who I thought I was, bringing me face to face with reality.

 

I'm not sure I like the word 'suffering', because to me it suggests we are in conflict with a painful reality. Although I think through suffering, we can learn to relax into pain and discomfort and find acceptance with what cannot be changed, and this brings a feeling of peace and freedom into each moment.

 

But 'suffering' could also mean we willingly bear pain and discomfort, finding meaning in being able to endure and even find joy in the complete human experience, after all, we are here to have the experience of human life and part of that is to have a nervous system and high level of awareness.

 

The sensitized nervous system and hyper-vigilance of withdrawal could be seen as a fast paced, advanced course in spiritual progress.

 

Here are a couple more related quotes:

 

“Thus suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind, no matter whether the suffering is great or little. Therefore the 'size' of human suffering is absolutely relative".”

Viktor E. Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning

 

“Suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning”

Viktor E. Frankl

 

 

Has anyone else noticed any positive changes or transformations within themselves caused by going through this painful process?

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Another really good thread, this.  I like what Petunia said about the 'shadow side'.

 

I've learned that I can cope with a whole lot more than I ever thought I could.  It's made me less fearful about other things that could happen to me. 

 

I've also very recently found what I have started to call 'The Grace World.'  It's been a complete 180 degree turn around from 'The Trauma World' where I had been living.  Instead of the rules, beliefs, fears and defenses I learned as a child as part of coping with abuse/trauma, I've somehow been able to switch over into living with grace, ease, flow, change, second-chances, forgiveness, goodness, connection and possibility.   In the Grace-World I know that pain will not destroy me.  

 

This is a massive shift for me, after nearly 20 years in counseling.  I never would have believed I could get here.  And It's so recent (just this last week) that I'm still blinking, and thinking 'well, even if it disappears I've had this lovely week...' 

 

So yes, I totally agree that suffering brings goodness, and an increased ability to reach out to others who are suffering. 

 

Thanks for this thread - so lovely to talk about the goodness and the healing, and to hear how it's happening for others.

 

Great quotes too, Petunia and Osk.  They warm the heart

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

My story of healing:ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor; please do your own research and be able to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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I really really like this thread. In my experience, i've found that when I fight the pain, it changes into suffering. When I accept the pain, I guess I forget about it. But i'm still dealing with reminders that I'm not myself, and thats where the cycle starts for me.

 

I pray for strength, but I dont feel strength, I feel weakness and most vulnerable almost every day since this began back in Feb.

 

Thanks for that osk

Effexor 150 mg 2012-2015(august)

 

Xanax 3mg 2010-2014(began wean late 2012)

 

Currently taking 20mg of hydrocortisone (10 mg 7am, 5mg 12pm 5 mg 4pm)

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  • Moderator Emeritus

I pray for strength, but I dont feel strength, I feel weakness and most vulnerable almost every day since this began back in Feb.

 

 

I see an opportunity for reducing suffering through acceptance here too. Being human means there are times when we are strong and times when we are weak. Struggling against weakness, rejecting this aspect of ourselves creates suffering through non-acceptance of part of the reality of who we are.

 

You have found the benefit in not fighting the pain, maybe the same benefit would come from not fighting the weakness too. I heard a quote once that went something like 'Real strength comes from having the courage to accept our inherent weakness'... or something like that.

 

Through this withdrawal process I've been weak, helpless and vulnerable, or I've felt that way at least. By allowing myself to be this way, not pushing myself to be stronger than I am at this time, its reduced stress and allowed my body to continue with its healing process, regaining its strength naturally.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

Link to post

I dont generally hang out in these threads ...

 

Wow osk that was a great quote from Mother Teresa.

 

And Petu wow what a fantastic quote from Frankl

“Suffering ceases to be suffering at the moment it finds a meaning”

 

ive just been trying to get some material from the library  to read on this guy Frankl....apparently he was in a nazi concentration camp and in the midst of the most unbelievable suffering he found that those who survived (or did best) were people who looked beyond themselves and helped others those who were starving yet shared their food with others ....

Taking the time each day in the midst of suffering silently to encourage someone else on these forums strings together a series of little Fankl moments which contribute to helping one survive ...well at least i think they play a part anyway. I think getting angry  at doctors can help survival as well  imo.

 

Has anyone else noticed any positive changes or transformations within themselves caused by going through this painful process?

Look i wouldnt want to credit GSK with anything.

But yes i have.

i have a lot more empathy towards others who are suffering.

 

Last week i started chatting to a complete stranger ...he said something that triggered my special antennaes so i said are you taking stuff from the doctor. He was reluctant to share specifics but i did cheekily squeeze some info out  when i suggested to him the fact he had diabetes and heart issues could be related to the fact he is on 3 antipsychotics, 3 antidepressants a benzo and some sleeping pills seemed to come as a bit of a shock.

I found myself deeply disturbed and concerned for this man. He wouldnt disclose the names of the drugs but when i rattled a whole list of names off and suggested how this predicament may have come about he nodded agreeingly and then  looking  stunned asked,  'who are you, a doctor .. a pharmacist? 'no just an unemployed bum, i replied. (i didnt tell him i was a recovering drug addict...only people on this site and immediate family know that...although it is a good conversation stopper 'why dont you blah blah blah'  ..'cos i'm a recovering drug addict' generally ends the talk..i did say that once to someone)

 

 

Hey osk im sure you are aware of the quote from C S Lewis on suffering/pain. ...

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

NZ, again I'm sitting here chuckling at your post.  

 

And yes, anger can be a very useful driver to get us up and moving and fighting for what we want.  The trick for me is shifting into another space after I've had the kick to act, and before I do the acting on another person.  I hope I am getting better at it.  I think I am :huh:

 

Now you've made me want to tell people I'm a recovering drug-addict.  What fun there is to be had...

 

 

Fankl moments which contribute to helping one survive ...well at least i think they play a part anyway. I think getting angry  at doctors can help survival as well  imo.

 

'no just an unemployed bum, i replied. (i didnt tell him i was a recovering drug addict...

 

2010  Fluoxetine 20mg.  2011  Escitalopram 20mg.  2013 Tapered badly and destabilised CNS.  Effexor 150mg. 

2015 Begin using info at SurvivingAntidepressants.  Cut 10% - bad w/d 2 months, held 1 month. 

Micro-tapering: four weekly 0.4% cuts, hold 4 weeks (struggling with symptoms).

8 month hold.

2017 Micro-tapering: four weekly 1% cuts, hold 4 weeks (symptoms almost non-existent).

2020 Still micro-tapering. Just over 2/3 of the way off effexor. Minimal symptoms, - and sleeping well.
Supplements: Fish oil, vitamin C, iron, oat-straw tea, nettle tea.

My story of healing:ContinuedHealing

***I am not a doctor; please do your own research and be able to take responsibility for decisions you make.*** 

           'The possibility of renewal exists so long as life exists.'  Dr Gabor Mate.

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yes i generally walk away from any sign of a confrontation however this week i failed miserably...had a run in with the sister in law.

 

Hardly spoken to her in 6 months she comes across to me and says without any 'invitation to talk' or anything and says you should do councelling. i thought she was meaning apply for a councelling job so i said well i guess i could give that job a go. no she said you should get councelling.

 

well at that moment i felt like someone had stuck the knife in my back...to quote a famous person . so i stupidly snapped why do i want to listen to someone talking BS for. (its a sensitive topic  trust me)

well she went off her tree ....i kind of forgot that she works as a councellor so i tried to soften it by saying well i am a recovering drug addict you know...well then i got an earfull about 'you are just playing the victim'.blah blah blah ..so i said i find her advice and psycho babble offensive. esp when she has no idea whats been happening in my life recently....like confronting the med prof and listening to there nonsense. I also feel i am the last person to be playing the victim. as i dont talk about my situation to her and always ask her about what they are upto and doing.

 

anyway i need to do a lot more work at my emotional intelligence. after trying to elicit her reasons for this advice i am told its because i looked so sad last week when i joined them for dinner. well that was her subjective viewpoint usually by dinnertime im exhausted and just want to sleep. besides looking sad is a major improvement on how i have been in the previous 4 years!

 

people just have no idea.

sorry for the rant.

anyway i dont often rant and  vent but today i do.

 

note to myself.

toughen up and dont get offended so easily. Smile and say thanks for the advice and walk away.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hardly spoken to her in 6 months she comes across to me and says without any 'invitation to talk' or anything and says you should do councelling...

 

she works as a councellor...

 

 

Its bad enough that most people think they have the right to tell everyone else what they 'should' do, but for a trained counselor to do this... frightening! It sounds like she needs some counseling herself.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

Link to post

Petu ...you are simply the best !

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Moderator

BKS Iyengar said, "Pain is a great philosopher. It thinks nothing but how to get rid of itself"

(found elsewhere on site)

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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