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Great article on tapering from Kelly Brogan, MD


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1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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She is a good, clear writer.

2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink.

2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ...

Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.
2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures.

:o 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years.

I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body.

2015: I  began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning.

I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral.

And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. 

I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up.

In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body.   :unsure:

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  • 8 months later...
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I had never seen this. Need more docs like her.

 

http://kellybroganmd.com/article/stop-madness-coming-psych-meds/

 

Andy

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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Yes, I read about her earlier, she is great!

Current dose: 0! Free!  Quit June 2017.

 

2017: Last dose zoloft: 17 June 0,00065 mg 18 May 0, 001 mg 14 May 0,002 mg 9 May 0,003 mg 28 April 0,006 mg 19 April 0,009 mg 8 April 0,013 mg 25 March 0,019 mg 22 March 0,039 mg 18 March 0,052 mg 16 March 0,079 mg 4 March 0,086 1 March 0,099 mg 22 February 0,11 mg 15 February 0,13 mg 6 February 0,145 mg 24 January 0,15 mg 19 January 0,19 mg 10 January 0,20 mg 3 January

 

2016: 0,98 to 0,22 mg

2015: 2,35 to 1,01 mg

2014: 4,9 to 2,5 mg

2013: 9,1 to 5,1 mg

2012: 15,7 to 9,7 mg

2011: Started on 25 mg - then 50 mg- dropped to 25- to 12.5 mg - back to 25 mg - after 18.75 mg started tiny tapering to 16.6 mg

 

Started on 25 mg Zoloft in March 2011 due to stressrelated tinnitus that gave me panicattacks. Had a terrible reaction to Zoloft from start, but was told to "hold on". After four months I was stuck. Therefore the long taper. Crazy, I know... Super sensitive to drops and have dropped by 4-6 % from the previous dose.

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Too bad she can't be cloned.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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Excellent article!!! Had a consult with a functional med doc yesterday & this further confirms exactly what he told me!

On Zoloft for 10 years (50 mg) for GAD & panic attacks

Weaned off fall of 2013, terrible set back in Feb '14 back on 100 mg & trazadone to sleep.

Did CT off of Zoloft in May 2014 - bad decision!

Back on 50 mg Zoloft & Xanax as needed (was upped to 75 mg by doctor in Feb 2015)

Started to wean off of Zoloft in April 2015 ~ totally off Zoloft in Oct 2015 and now am on Buspar 11.25 mg to help.

I was on a 50 mg pill & 25 mg pill - I cut the 25 mg pill in half (12.5) and took that with the 50 for 6 weeks - 1st week June 2015

 50 mg for another 6 weeks. 25 mg in half and the 50 mg in half (37.5), 25 mg mid Sept for about 2 weeks.,1/2 of the 25 mg last week of Sept/1st week of Oct then off.

Update** 9 mg Zoloft reinstated early Nov 15, along with 1.5 mg Buspar daily. On .50 of Buspar & 9 mg of Zoloft. Oct '16 - off of Buspar, Nov '16 - down to 7.5 mg Zoloft. March'17 - 4 mg Zoloft. July'17 - 2 mg, Sept 1 mg. Oct'17 - off! Done!

I also take magnesium, L theanine, Gaba Calm, L Glutamine, Vit B complex(for methyl issues), Liver & Gall bladder support, Zinc, Whole Food Vit C & Fish Oil. DARE & the bible are the tools I use to help navigate this  process.

 

 

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Excellent article!!! Had a consult with a functional med doc yesterday & this further confirms exactly what he told me!

 

Awesome that you have a doc who gets all that.  Have you provided the doctor's info so Alto can add to the list of AD wise docs?

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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No ~ as he doesn't specialize in AD WD. But I was able to get testing done to see what I can do to help my body. What I found out is that I'm in adrenal fatigue stage 2 and have major hormone imbalance which causes further anxiety, panic attacks ect. I told him how I was so sensitive right now & he understood ~ and are taking the supplements/healing very slow. He recommended I stay on my ad until my body is healed. Crazy thing is that I had these symptoms to begin with .... Which is why I was put on the Zoloft. Really the doc should have not applied the "band aid" and found what was causing the symptoms!!! I am just a firm believer that many problems can be fixed with diet, supplements and counseling instead of handing out AD. And now I'm stepping down off my soapbox. *sorry!!

On Zoloft for 10 years (50 mg) for GAD & panic attacks

Weaned off fall of 2013, terrible set back in Feb '14 back on 100 mg & trazadone to sleep.

Did CT off of Zoloft in May 2014 - bad decision!

Back on 50 mg Zoloft & Xanax as needed (was upped to 75 mg by doctor in Feb 2015)

Started to wean off of Zoloft in April 2015 ~ totally off Zoloft in Oct 2015 and now am on Buspar 11.25 mg to help.

I was on a 50 mg pill & 25 mg pill - I cut the 25 mg pill in half (12.5) and took that with the 50 for 6 weeks - 1st week June 2015

 50 mg for another 6 weeks. 25 mg in half and the 50 mg in half (37.5), 25 mg mid Sept for about 2 weeks.,1/2 of the 25 mg last week of Sept/1st week of Oct then off.

Update** 9 mg Zoloft reinstated early Nov 15, along with 1.5 mg Buspar daily. On .50 of Buspar & 9 mg of Zoloft. Oct '16 - off of Buspar, Nov '16 - down to 7.5 mg Zoloft. March'17 - 4 mg Zoloft. July'17 - 2 mg, Sept 1 mg. Oct'17 - off! Done!

I also take magnesium, L theanine, Gaba Calm, L Glutamine, Vit B complex(for methyl issues), Liver & Gall bladder support, Zinc, Whole Food Vit C & Fish Oil. DARE & the bible are the tools I use to help navigate this  process.

 

 

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Can't wait to read and digest this thank you Meimeiquest!

08/2014 10 mg 8/28/14 switched to liquid 2.5 timeline-9/6/14 2.30=9.2 ...10/03/14 2.07=8.28 ...11/1/14 1.9=7.611/3014 1.72=6.88 ... 12/26 1.54=6.16... 2/16 1.46=5.84 switch to 5% per 3 wks3/14/15 1.38=5.52 ... 4/4/15 1.30=5.2 ...4/25/15 1.24=4.965/16/15 1.18=4.72 ... 6/6/15 1.12=4.48...6/26/15 1.06=4.24 switch to 5%ish per two weeks7/15/15 1.0=4. 7/30/15 .96=3.84 8/13/15 .91=3.64 or .90=3.60 8/29/15 .86=3.44 9/12/15 .82= 3.28 9/26/15 .78=3.12 10/11/15 .74=2.96 10/25/15 .70=2.8 hit a wall been holding since12/26/15 2.5% decrease .68=2.72 1/9/16 .66=2.64 2/6/16 .63=2.52 3/3/16 ,60=2.4 3/26/16 57=2.28 4/30/16 .54=2.16mg 6/4/16 .52=2.08 8/5/16 updose .75=3.0. 9/6/16 1.00=4.0 5mg 2/10/17 6mg 2/17/17 8 mg 3/17/17 7mg ? 3/18/17 6mg 4/1/17 5mg @4/17 4.5mg=1.12 5/19/17 4 mg=1.00ml 7/15/17 .98=3.96

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Wow thanks for posting this.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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What a terrible admission  by Broggan

"I was taught to dismiss patients concerned about becoming “addicted” to psych meds, and to deny the possibility of protracted withdrawal, describing it only as evidence of that patients clear “need” for permanent medication treatment.

I was never taught how to taper."

 

Hey how come the link to 'support groups' is not working....

That should be a link to sa right.

Yet the link to beyond meds is working.....why is the link to sa not working??? hmmmm I am thinking that....

 

Later ...some guy by the name of Milton has gone in and provided the link to sa ...it is currently awaiting approval....well thats what a little bird told me.

I  look forward to seeing the link appear.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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NZ,

 

Look who made a comment back in February on her article and pointed out the same thing (that still hasn't been fixed):

 

 

Altostrata says

 

Thank you, Dr. Brogan, for your interest in this extremely important topic.

 

I founded the SurvivingAntidepressants.org peer support site (by the way, the link within your article above is broken). Here are a few points from my experience:

 

– A history of tapering that is not sufficiently gradual to minimize withdrawal symptoms very often leads to hypersensivities of all sorts, particularly to neuroactive drugs, supplements, herbs, etc. Consequently, all such should be used very carefully and at tiny exploratory dosages.

 

– While I applaud the interest alternative providers and orthomolecular practitioners have in tapering people off psychiatric drugs, I have not see orthomolecular treatment to be helpful. The high doses of supplements, etc. used in orthomolecular medicine can trigger adverse reactions in people whose nervous systems have been sensitized by changes in drugs and dosages.  (Dr. Prousky does not compare outcomes from those treated with his orthomolecular protocols with patients who tapered without such protocols. I can tell you with great confidence: It’s the tapering that’s the key to getting safely off psychiatric drugs, not the supplements.)  However, the tapering guidance concerned alternative practitioners may provide is very helpful.

 

– The assumption that drugs with longer half-lives incur less withdrawal difficulty, inherited from early antidepressant studies, may be wrong. Patients may not have been followed long enough to see what happens when the drug is finally completely metabolized. Withdrawal symptoms are often not immediately evident. On SurvivingAntidepressants.org, we do see withdrawal syndrome from Prozac and Valium, for example.

 

– Choosing which drug to taper first in polypharmacy situations is a complex consideration. These factors may indicate which drug is to be tapered first:

 

o A particular drug is causing identifiable adverse effects. (The Drug Interactions Checker at http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html is very informative. We may also look at P450 liver enzyme conflicts.)

 

o Which drug is most activating. Many people have a benzo or Seroquel (or both) added to an antidepressant or amphetamine analog to treat drug-induced anxiety or sleep problems. In those cases, we suggest tapering the antidepressant or amphetamine analog first, to preserve sleep — damaged sleep being a very, very common withdrawal symptom from all kinds of psychiatric drugs.

 

– “Increased rate of relapse” after treatment with psychiatric drugs is inherited from studies that did not take withdrawal syndrome into account. It’s highly likely a lot of that “relapse” was in fact withdrawal syndrome.

 

I agree completely that improving physical health and psychosocial coping strategies empowers people to come off psychiatric drugs safely.

 

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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Been having a quick read of the link to J P and his tapering case studies....

172 Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine Vol 28, No 4, 2013

 

"Thus, it is possible and even conceivable that some patients cannot overcome their distressing psychological symptoms when discontinuing SSRI drugs due to the potentially brain-damaging effects resulting from their prolonged use."

 

I cant believe the speed of some of his taperings ..... and has a misplaced confidence in supplements.....

 

Great to see a person point out the obvious...

"(Dr. Prousky does not compare outcomes from those treated with his orthomolecular protocols with patients who tapered without such protocols. I can tell you with great confidence: It’s the tapering that’s the key to getting safely off psychiatric drugs, not the supplements.)" Alto.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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Oh Andy you posted while i typed....

 

Milton

 

Note to myself

nz11 stop jumping to comclusions ...that couldnt possibly be the reason the link wasnt working

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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Yes, but I just posted to show that "Alto was here."  You identified a key flaw in the Prousky work and the fact that Alto identified it in her comments.

 

I also think the Prousky article and protocols are deficient and alarmist in the fact that they complete fail to take into consideration the notion of neuroplastic change such that, even if SSRIs were to cause damage, the notion that such damage cannot be overcome by changes at the neuronal level seems to fly in the face of the most recent findings of Doidge, etc. regarding neuroplasticity.

 

Andy

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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Yes good point.

 

Prousky like others such as Shipko think that some people cant get off these drugs period.

However these people still imo cant conceive of tapers that go for years...the songbirds the Brassmonkeys of this world.

 

In 'case 5' Prousky took a person who had been on paxil for 8 yrs or so and tapered them off in 5 weeks....and then another 2 months using a prozac bridge.

Be interesting to find out where that person is at today...they were clearly suffering wdl but that appears to have been blamed on hormonal treatments....

 

"For each of the 14 tapering successes, orthomolecular and/or botanical treatments were customized to minimize withdrawal and support each patient’s capacity to emotionally regulate through the tapering process." 

Really!!!

 

He says he has had '14 successes ' well case 1 and 2 are only just off the drug we all know 6 weeks and 3 months drug free are early days....i wonder where these people are at now.

'Tapered off in 2013' yet he doesn't define 'tapered off' its as if its irrelevant.

 

Later ...still reading the Prousky article.....oh my goodness ...look at what Prousky did to case 13.. is this guy being supervised ?? and Prousky is the head of some hospital somewhere....'Chief Naturopathic Medical Officer, Professor, Canadian College'...ok so who supervisors the supervisors?

 

Case 13, 5 yrs zoloft use and Prousky tapered her in what appears to be a 2-3? month taper [cant find my calc at the moment but from memory 50 mg needs 38 months of tapering to 1mg if using the 10% method ...not 2.5 months]..... that is what  can put people in hospital...

"Patient began to taper off the PD in January 2013 and was fully off the PD by April 2013; destabilized in June 2013; resumed PD and the dose was escalated to 50 mg and patient became extremely suicidal 2 weeks later and went to the nearest hospital; PD switched to Prozac and patient currently taking 10 mg daily"...oops it did put her in hospital.

"Similarly, in Case 13, the patient had little difficulty tapering [!?!] and reported doing well for a couple of months following PD discontinuation.[!?!] Prior to tapering, we had a fulsome discussion about successful tapering [???] and wellness.She was advised to revisit regular counselling, a regular exercise plan, and to participate in some form of relaxation. She destabilized two months [no surprise ] following the tapering and neglected to take these additional steps that would have supported her and perhaps prevented the relapse. She is now on temporary leave from her full-time job. Following the relapse, she agreed that more resources were needed and that she also needed to address some very painful issues related to the loss of a close family member that occurred years earlier. She is currently participating in weekly psychotherapy, practicing mindfulness-based meditation, and regularly exercising, but felt the need to resume her PD."

 

Prousky is doing the typical doctor dodge he is blaming the patient and not the ridculous taper! that HE gave her. Her faulty cross wired concept of self has  surely been erroneously reinforced by Prousky using the 'relapse' word. Gee i loathe that word.

 

"The results showed that eight patients were able to remain functionally well following PD discontinuation, whereas the remaining six cases were not. Reasons for these different outcomes are discussed, and include: (1) problems in overcoming pharmacological dependence; (2) being psychologically dependent on being psychiatrically labeled; (3) not having a sufficient life strategy; and (4) being potentially brain-damaged from PDs."

Well what about a too fast taper??? do you think that could be a reason??

 

" In part, their ongoing mental stability can be attributed to their ongoing use of an individualized prescription of natural health products."
hmmm okaaaay.

 

Prousky finishes with "This paper can assist and empower clinicians to better understand some of the reasons why patients remain functionally well post-tapering and why other patients do not." hmmmm scary.
 

Brogan appropriately titled her blog 'stop the madness'

 

I also think the Prousky article and protocols are deficient and alarmist

Having now read it i would have to agree with you. It was pretty substandard really. imo

 

Sorry Andy ...am i being cynical?? ...again.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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Sorry Andy ...am i being cynical?? ...again.

 

LOL, Nz.  Only if "cynical" is synonymous with "spot on." 

 

This article points out the difficulty in changing the culture that surrounds these meds.  Even the people supposedly "in the know" and running projects to study this stuff are essentially clueless and causing more harm than good.  The number of docs, like Brogan, who recognize that this is a process that can take upwards of several years, are few and far between.

 

The "blame the patient" mantra is alive and well unfortunately.

 

Having said all that, what needs to be understood is WHY?  Why do some of us have protracted issues getting off while others, in the exact same situation from a time of use, dosage and approach to withdrawal, manage to get off over a short period scot free?  It is my belief that this goes to the area of individualized medicine and that if we had the tools to properly measure the right variables (need to figure those out -- of course need to understand how and why these f---ng meds actually work if and when they do) and how those variables apply in any given person, we could tailor withdrawal processes that get people off more safely.  It will take a long time before people care enough to do that and there will be a lot of damaged souls inbetween.

 

Andy

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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I am going to throw this random idea out here (actually I have reasons for thinking it, but they don't matter). Inflammation seems to play a role in some depression and in mental illness in general. I wonder if some people have inflammation around the neuroreceptors, and that makes if harder for them to respond appropriately to changes in the chemical environment.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Well some guy called Milton put the link up to sa and it was approved ...seems a bit odd that its taken nearly a year to get the link working.

Surely of all the links that would be the most important.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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Three cheers for Milton!!!

 

CC

 MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    13 November 2021 -  0mg Pristiq      

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq   

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  I do not provide tapering advice via PM.  Please post questions in your Introduction topic.  Please do not tag me for any reason.  I am an unpaid volunteer and assist members if I am able to and when I have the time.  Thank you for your understanding.

Mid Nov 2021 changed to low carb diet due to diabetes & cholesterol.  Lost 1/16 body weight, BP has reduced a lot. 

Links to my exercises and weights.  I also do 3 x 5.5 min with HIIT on exercise bike with 20 secs/min as fast as I can cycle.

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Hip hip hooray !!

Talk about jumping behind the counter and getting things moving !!

Good on that chap Milton thats what i say. Let nothing stand in the way of allowing people to get to the truth.

Heres the thing ...it wasnt that difficult to organize.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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I am going to throw this random idea out here (actually I have reasons for thinking it, but they don't matter). Inflammation seems to play a role in some depression and in mental illness in general. I wonder if some people have inflammation around the neuroreceptors, and that makes if harder for them to respond appropriately to changes in the chemical environment.

On Zoloft for 10 years (50 mg) for GAD & panic attacks

Weaned off fall of 2013, terrible set back in Feb '14 back on 100 mg & trazadone to sleep.

Did CT off of Zoloft in May 2014 - bad decision!

Back on 50 mg Zoloft & Xanax as needed (was upped to 75 mg by doctor in Feb 2015)

Started to wean off of Zoloft in April 2015 ~ totally off Zoloft in Oct 2015 and now am on Buspar 11.25 mg to help.

I was on a 50 mg pill & 25 mg pill - I cut the 25 mg pill in half (12.5) and took that with the 50 for 6 weeks - 1st week June 2015

 50 mg for another 6 weeks. 25 mg in half and the 50 mg in half (37.5), 25 mg mid Sept for about 2 weeks.,1/2 of the 25 mg last week of Sept/1st week of Oct then off.

Update** 9 mg Zoloft reinstated early Nov 15, along with 1.5 mg Buspar daily. On .50 of Buspar & 9 mg of Zoloft. Oct '16 - off of Buspar, Nov '16 - down to 7.5 mg Zoloft. March'17 - 4 mg Zoloft. July'17 - 2 mg, Sept 1 mg. Oct'17 - off! Done!

I also take magnesium, L theanine, Gaba Calm, L Glutamine, Vit B complex(for methyl issues), Liver & Gall bladder support, Zinc, Whole Food Vit C & Fish Oil. DARE & the bible are the tools I use to help navigate this  process.

 

 

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Yes ~ I have to say I agree with you. There are causes for why we originally had to go on meds. There are anxiety & panic symptoms BUT what is causing those? I firmly believe it's a combo of our thoughts & actual physical causes. Just my two cents :)

On Zoloft for 10 years (50 mg) for GAD & panic attacks

Weaned off fall of 2013, terrible set back in Feb '14 back on 100 mg & trazadone to sleep.

Did CT off of Zoloft in May 2014 - bad decision!

Back on 50 mg Zoloft & Xanax as needed (was upped to 75 mg by doctor in Feb 2015)

Started to wean off of Zoloft in April 2015 ~ totally off Zoloft in Oct 2015 and now am on Buspar 11.25 mg to help.

I was on a 50 mg pill & 25 mg pill - I cut the 25 mg pill in half (12.5) and took that with the 50 for 6 weeks - 1st week June 2015

 50 mg for another 6 weeks. 25 mg in half and the 50 mg in half (37.5), 25 mg mid Sept for about 2 weeks.,1/2 of the 25 mg last week of Sept/1st week of Oct then off.

Update** 9 mg Zoloft reinstated early Nov 15, along with 1.5 mg Buspar daily. On .50 of Buspar & 9 mg of Zoloft. Oct '16 - off of Buspar, Nov '16 - down to 7.5 mg Zoloft. March'17 - 4 mg Zoloft. July'17 - 2 mg, Sept 1 mg. Oct'17 - off! Done!

I also take magnesium, L theanine, Gaba Calm, L Glutamine, Vit B complex(for methyl issues), Liver & Gall bladder support, Zinc, Whole Food Vit C & Fish Oil. DARE & the bible are the tools I use to help navigate this  process.

 

 

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For a great discussion on this issue, i.e., inflammation and the cytokine model of depression, listen to the following:

 

http://drpeterbregginshow.podbean.com/2013/07/24/the-dr-peter-breggin-hour-a-psychiatrist-in-transformation-072413/

 

This is a podcast on Peter Breggin's weekly show with Dr. Brogan who describes the process and how it might be working to cause physical precursors that allow for epigenetic expression in the form of anxiety, depression, etc.

 

Very informative (at least for me).

 

Andy

 

P.S.  If we are lucky, Milton will listen, like it and post the times within the podcast where key things are said.  He's WAY more diligent than I am.  LOL.

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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Im not Milton but i did listen to it.

I have to say after listening to that i have fallen in love...with Breggin not Brogan. (that fooled you didnt it!)

Breggin was (inflammation) sceptical and so was i.  Loved the way Breggin was not intimidated by this fast talking New York academic and happy to challenge her.

 

Kelly comes across as very sharp quick thinking and a bit of a perfectionist  yet to post a broken link or let a broken link continue seems strangely odd and very un-Brogan-ish.  it shouldnt have to take a Milton to fix that. Even the reply to Alto seemed ...well odd or am i imagining things. I assume thats who she was replying to.

 

Yes there are some who are critical of Breggin but i think he is fantastic and after listening to that even more so.

Still i applaud Brogan she is clearly more noble than the rest of the tribe she has left ...

Living like 'A canary in  a coalmine' what a wonderful saying..

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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I do think we are talking about two different animals when we talk about slow-tapering one drug versus six (that is what I was on). Five years apiece would be thirty years of tapering.

 

Just my experience, but orthomolecular supplements have changed my life, but tapering is still really, really hard. Interestingly, the last time I talked to that doctor, she said, "wow, that's a lot of changes," I had the idea she thought I was going too fast.

 

I see a doc now who has been trained by them, but he feels the gut is "ground zero" for many people from a physiological perspective. We had a supplement mishap out of town for Thanksgiving, and what developed was IBS symptoms, something I've never had in my life. I am wondering if the supplements are just covering underlying gut problems. But that is N=1 with lots of conjecture added in.

 

I just appreciate anyone who isn't matching diagnosis to drug, and new drug to side effects.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Im not Milton but i did listen to it.

I have to say after listening to that i have fallen in love...with Breggin not Brogan. (that fooled you didnt it!)

Breggin was (inflammation) sceptical and so was i.  Loved the way Breggin was not intimidated by this fast talking New York academic and happy to challenge her.

 

Yes.  Fooled me big time.

 

Bregging intimidated?  Why would he be?  He's probably the biggest name in his "space."  Brogan was complimentary and very appropriately so.  She just has strong views and states them.  I thought it was a good dialogue.  Some of Breggin's views are, however, not consistent with current thought on things like autism, etc.  Doesn't mean he's necessarily wrong -- just not with the current mainstream.

 

Andy

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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Breggin intimidated?  Why would he be?

Exactly...i didn't word that very  well did i ..

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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http://kellybroganmd.com/snippet/ocd-cure-havent-heard/?utm_source=Kelly+Brogan+MD+Newsletter&utm_campaign=6ada62c799-The+Most+Effective+OCD+Treatment&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d0f977a8c5-6ada62c799-121781789

 

"Every time I have the thought that I want to harm my husband, I have to spend about 15-20 minutes organizing the utensils in our drawer just perfectly. It’s exhausting and so disturbing. I love him more than anyone in the world.”

For Amy, this was her daily reality, on 40mg of Prozac, when she presented to my office during her first pregnancy. The psychic distress around this daily experience of a mind persecuting itself is difficult to witness, and even more difficult to treat. In the case of this patient, full spectrum fatty acid replacement and a gluten/dairy/sugar free organic diet allowed   her to come off of medication and live, not only symptom-free, but vibrantly for the coming years."

 

!!!!?!!!

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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  • 2 years later...
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I found some great videos with Dr. Kelly Brogan on the Joe Rogan show. 

 

CAUTION - Joe Rogan periodically uses profanity (and Dr. Brogan does a few times, too), so I'm adding this caution for anyone who is sensitive to language. 

 

Psych Meds: what you need to know  video (20 minutes)

 

She explains the link to violence and suicide and she says that long-term psych meds are harder to come off than oxycontin and crack. Brilliant truth telling! 

 

Joe Rogan & Kelly Brogan on the Placebo Effect video (10.5 minutes)

 

Those videos were just clips of the full show, so if you're interested, the full 3 hour episode is here:

 

 Joe Rogan Experience #968 - Kelly Brogan video (3 hours)

Edited by Shep
updated links

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Great article on tapering from Kelly Brogan, MD
  • Moderator

Thanks for bringing this one back to my attention.  It is SO GOOD that it should be required viewing to become a member of SA.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012

increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement

Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first")

Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15

Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid 
Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15

Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016

10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg.  No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold.

After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation

Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C,

 

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Fantastic!  The 3-hour version was worth the time (though the host got a bit off course in the last hour).  

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg 

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper.  Current dose as of Jan. 11, 2022: 5.4mg 

Taper is 71% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan-Sept 2016 tapered to 16mg.  

Held until Aug 2021, tapered for 4 weeks to 14.4mg and holding.  

Taper is 80% complete.  

  

Supplements: omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Okay!!  I'm just doing the old.....going to comment here, so I come back and watch some/all when I get a chance.

I don't mind profanity once in awhile.  Well situated and as emphasis.......

And I appreciate the resurrection of this topic as well.  Thank you.  I've read and watched some of Brogan.....and of course read some of Breggin.  And now there is Rogan.

Oh my......the host got a bit off topic........gasp!!!  B)

I'm a happy mmt for some strange reason......

L, P, H, and grrrowth and all that!

I think my GP has gone functional.....yay! 

On 12/11/2015 at 9:28 AM, apace41 said:

For a great discussion on this issue, i.e., inflammation and the cytokine model of depression, listen to the following:

 

http://drpeterbregginshow.podbean.com/2013/07/24/the-dr-peter-breggin-hour-a-psychiatrist-in-transformation-072413/

 

On 12/8/2015 at 6:17 PM, Meimeiquest said:

I am going to throw this random idea out here (actually I have reasons for thinking it, but they don't matter). Inflammation seems to play a role in some depression and in mental illness in general. I wonder if some people have inflammation around the neuroreceptors, and that makes if harder for them to respond appropriately to changes in the chemical environment.

I realize these ^ quotes are almost 3 years old, yet......appreciated........as I do need to make my own critical analysis here......

Thank you all.....

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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As I've expressed before, I am dubious about the inflammation theory of depression. Our emotions are as old as the species, and if what they do is cause inflammation, then inflammation is normal.

 

This is not to say that there aren't physical diseases that actually do cause inflammation and depression -- but that's not what most people have when they're "depressed." The vast majority are perfectly healthy. And if you're feeling physically awful, I would argue it's normal to feel emotional distress from that, you're not feeling the emotion because of the inflammation, but because you don't like being sick.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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19 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Our emotions are as old as the species, and if what they do is cause inflammation, then inflammation is normal.

 

Thank you Alto.  Love this ^

Appreciate and great respect for your wisdom/thoughts/ideas.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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