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Exercise ... Do more, do less, do nothing? What worked for you?


Razzle

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That's fortunate for you as there are so many benefits to exercise. There's a big variation not only between individuals but for people at different stages of WD . For those very sensitive to cortisol fluctuations it seems to cause problems. Hopefully as that diminishes over time exercise tolerance will increase

Paxil 10mg 21/2 years to June 2012 after a 2 month taper

 

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Addax, on 10 Feb 2015 - 4:18 PM, said:snapback.png

I responded in another thread about this issue but I can't recall which one. I'll look for it as well as a journal article. In the meantime the readers digest version is: exercise is stress on the body and the body reacts by producing cortisol. The more intense the exercise the more cortisol produced. 

Higher intensity exercise worked well in decreasing my anxiety and other symptoms until I fell into a particularly harsh wave, if you will. At that point the opposit became true until I stabilized again at which point it again became a stress reliever. 

Yoga is a good alternative. Restorative yoga would be a good option, as would any gent all or basic yoga class.

That is very useful thank you. It helps me to understand what is a trigger and how it works. Makes sense. 

 

Yes, I agree. If you happen to find the article you mentioned Addax, it would be very much appreciated! Sometimes the symptoms of withdrawal seem so mysterious and random...like they have no triggers and just come up whenever. It's nice when there is any science or explanation behind it all.

Intermittent Klonopin use February, 2014 to September, 2015

- Off of SSRIs completely since April, 2012 

- Had horrible side effects from Celexa (constant feelings of terror, insomnia) so stopped taking it after 6 weeks

- Started 20 mg of Celexa in February 2012

- Began to taper off of Zoloft in May, 2011, off Zoloft completely September, 2011

- Increased Zoloft to 75 mg October, 2010 and decreased back to 50 mg in February, 2011

- June 2009- Went on 50 mg of Zoloft

- October, 2007 - July, 2008- Celexa 20 mgs (tapered off fairly quickly)

- 2006-2007- On Effoxor for about 8 months- switched to Prozac and cold turkeyed off

- 2005- Paxil and Lamictal for a few months but stopped taking because it didn't work

- 2004- Paxil for a few months but quit taking because of increased feelings of depression

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

 

During the summer I can do a little bit of running (very little, alternating with walking), but it feels good. I don't run during winter, so I figured I would take a zumba class once a week for cardio and regain a bit of fitness... My first class was yesterday, wasn't easy but I paced myself, and I liked it. BUT it has affected my sleep last night and today I have a lot more irritability and feel like everything is the end of the world... I so much hate that.

 

Athena, how are you doing with Zumba?  I have been doing Zumba (gold, a less intensive version) twice a week for over a year now, in the late mornings, and it's good for my mental state, and I love it, but I have noticed difficult nights afterwards.  Last night was one.  I hate that because I really love my classes!  I also do a gentle yoga class once a week and that seems to be really helpful for my muscles, but I notice more fatigue and a slight irritability in the evenings afterwards.

1986-2005:  Limbitrol (15 Librium/ 50 Elavil combo) 1986-2005, 2005-successfully tapered Librium

January of 2009-2011:  Mirtazapine 30 mg; Cymbalta 60 mg; tapered cymbalta fall/winter of 2011/12

March 2012-March 2014:  Mirtazapine, and various trials of Celexa, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and Lexapro; began Lexapro taper

9/18/14-Lexapro .7 mg; Mirtazapine 30 mg; 9/29/14 ditched Lexapro; added 25 mg Nortryptyline began mirtazapine taper

11/4/14:  Mirtazapine 15 mg; Nortryptyline about 12.5 mg; 1/17/15:  Mirtazapine 7.5 mg; Nortryptyline 2.5 mg, then jumped nortryptyline.

2/10:  Mirtazapine 1.875, 2/11:  Re-established at 6.75, 3/19-6.0 mg, 4/9-5.8, 4/17-6.3; 4/21 tried to re-establish at 7.5

4/23/15-Back to 5.8; 5/5-5.1mg; 5/16-4.6 mg; 5/24-4.2 mg; 6/2-3.9 mg; 6/9-3.6 mg; 6/16-3.3 mg; 6/23-3 mg

6/28-2.8 mg; 7/2-2.5 mg; 7/4-Jumped, due to increased misery from the drug itself.

In a spell of panic due to agitation and insomnia, went through a few days each of 10, then 5 mg amitryptyline and 5 mg librium. Did not work out well. Horrible insomnia now.

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Yesterday I was having a fairly decent day. I did a lot of laundry and groomed my dogs, brushing and nails...I have 4, and did quite a bit of vacuuming. I also did some picking up. I had a call from my health plan and they had a cancellation and wanted me to come in for a consult prior to a sleep study and so I said I would take it. I had to drive about 25 min into a busy area and so it was somewhat stressful. I came home and laid down for a while because I was feeling sleepy.( I wake up too early in the AM.... about 4:30-5AM.) I dozed a bit. I then went to visit my mom and did about 20 min of light pool exercise at her retirement center. We had dinner and then I came home. I was going to walk my dogs with my roommate but was feeling really lousy, like I was getting the flu so we didn't do it. I have had this happen a couple of other times and I think I was just too physically active. I felt really horrible for about an hour, I had to be lying down. I feel ok this morning but worried about over doing it again today. I have fibromyalgia and took AD's for it. Some of them really helped but cannot take the side effects anymore. I am not taking any meds for it now. I have gotten too sensitive and cannot even take pain killers like aspirin. I am wondering if anyone else has had a reaction like this to exercise or physical activity or is it maybe just my fibro symptoms without any treatments.

 

I feel fairly certain saying that what you are experiencing is withdrawal.  I, too, was put on tricyclics and benzodiazepines for "chronic" pain.  I got worse over the years and finally figured out it was medication side effects.  I quickly reduced and then cold turkeyed off the meds, according to doctor and manufacturer instructions, and am still plagued by side effects plus withdrawal symptoms.

 

However, I am doing light physical therapy which is noticeably improving the location of my supposedly "chronic" pain.  My new pain doctor and physical therapist figured out that my chronic pain diagnosis from years back was wrong.  I had sustained a deep, tricky muscle injury and ruptured disk in my back, but my former doctors overlooked the injury and said I had incurable pain and HAD to be on meds.

 

Now, the location of pain at the site of my injury and the areas surrounding the injury are better.  Every other physical symptom I have is listed as a side effect and documented as a withdrawal effect of the tricyclic and benzodiazepines.

 

Of course, I may be wrong about my assessment of your situation, since you know your body better than I do.  But I do know my body best and can say with certainty what happened to me, so you can use the situation for comparison and contrast if you wish.

*I'm not a doctor and don't give medical advice, just personal experience
**Off all meds since Nov. 2014. Mentally & emotionally recovered; physically not
-Dual cold turkeys off TCA & Ativan in Oct 2014. Prescribed from 2011-2014

-All meds were Rxed off-label for an autoimmune illness.  It was a MISDIAGNOSIS, but I did not find out until AFTER meds caused damage.  All med tapers/cold turkeys directed by doctors 

-Nortriptyline May 2012 - Dec 2013. Cold turkey off nortrip & cold switched to desipramine

-Desipramine Jan 2014 - Oct. 29, 2014 (rapid taper/cold turkey)

-Lorazepam 1 mg per night during 2011
-Lorazepam 1 mg per month in 2012 (or less)

-Lorazepam on & off, Dec 2013 through Aug 2014. Didn't exceed 3x a week

-Lorazepam again in Oct. 2014 to help get off of desipramine. Last dose lzpam was 1 mg, Nov. 2, 2014. Immediate paradoxical reactions to benzos after stopping TCAs 

-First muscle/dystonia side effects started on nortriptyline, but docs too stupid to figure it out. On desipramine, muscle tremors & rigidity worsened

-Two weeks after I got off all meds, I developed full-blown TD.  Tardive dystonia, dyskinesia, myoclonic jerks ALL over body, ribcage wiggles, facial tics, twitching tongue & fingers, tremors/twitches of arms, legs, cognitive impairment, throat muscles semi-paralyzed & unable to swallow solid food, brain zaps, ears ring, dizzy, everything looks too far away, insomnia, numbness & electric shocks everywhere when I try to fall asleep, jerk awake from sleep with big, gasping breaths, wake with terrors & tremors, severely depressed.  NO HISTORY OF DEPRESSION, EVER. Meds CREATED it.

-Month 7: hair falling out; no vision improvement; still tardive dystonia; facial & tongue tics returned
-Month 8: back to acute, incl. Grand Mal seizure-like episodes. New mental torment, PGAD, worse insomnia
-Month 9: tardive dystonia worse, dyskinesia returned. Unable to breathe well due to dystonia in stomach, chest, throat
-Month 13: Back to acute, brain zaps back, developed eczema & stomach problems. Left leg no longer works right due to dystonia, meaning both legs now damaged
-7 years off: Huge improvements, incl. improved dystonia

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  • 1 month later...

I am pretty far in withdrawal (3,5 years post last dosage of Citalopram). I still have a lot of symptoms though, mostly physical I suspect related to hormonal issues (weight gain, sexual dysfunction, sweating, hairloss etc.) In the last couple of months I have experienced some mild flu attacks. I know it is flu season but they seem to come after i have exercised. yesterday i helped tear down a ceiling and even that left me with mild fever and flu like symptoms. anyone else experience cold/flu/feverish symptoms after exercise? is it related to all the rest?

Male

On Citalopram from 2008-2011 (age 19-23) for anxiety

Started on 20mg but was on 60mg at one point

Knew nothing about discontinuation and wasn't given much help from doctor

Tried stopping on my own after being stable on one pill a day (20mg)

Went horribly wrong and had to reinstate

Tried "tappering" on my own as doctor new nothing by taking half pills and skipping days

Managed to quit this way over 3 to 4 months

Had horrible reaction and began withdrawal hell

Found Paxil Progress after a month or so not understanding why symptoms wasn't going away

Mentally better but recently ran into huge fatigue problems after gradual onset. Now homebound

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/3-introductions-and-updates/

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Hi vonant,

Yes, many people do experience a a lowered tolerance for exercise when in withdrawal.  We recommend mild to moderate exercise up to a level which doesn't increase withdrawal symptoms.  This discussion topic has more information:

Exercise: what, when, and when its too much

 

Please would you start a new introduction thread for yourself in our introductions/update forum, so that we can get to know you and your situation.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey Gemeni Girl , I loved to be active before WD , I played hockey ,lifted weights , yoga , etc.. all the time but since going through WD for me its been too hard to exercise, its been somewhat crushing to me but i have begun to except it may take awile for things to calm down. I only go for light walks as nature feels so good to me. I totally agree with what Dave says though , listen to your body , everyones body is at a different point of progress and will respond differently.  if you can exercise and it feels good than thats huge and you should continue. You may have to ease into it to see how your body responds. good luck 

Was on 30mg (Lexapro) for 7-8yrs20mg for 3 months (This was my choice my Doc wanted me to drop much faster)15 mg 2week10mg 2 weeks 5 mg 1 week0 since August 24th . PPI Dexlant  30 mg taper has begun. Cutting 20% currently.  using zantac as needed.  Benzo is currently 0.10mg 

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Great thread. I feel really weird when I exercise now, similar symptoms to a panic attack (dizzy, racing heart, depersonalisation) but its not a panic attack. Its like cardio somehow 'triggers' a load of symptoms and instead of enjoying exercise the way I used to, I dread it now because it makes me feel unwell and I can't exercise the way I used too.Moonlitelotus, I am like you, used to be really fit and active, ran loads and enjoyed the gym, symptoms have really gotten in thr way now. I pray over time tjings change because I love working out and some exercise is important to the healing process I believe. Pink.

2002 started 20mg Seroxat for anxiety. Attempted 1st withdrawal in Autumn of 2006. Went to 0 in around a month-hell. Massive crash. Reinstated.

 

May 2013 started 10% taper with liquid seroxat as follows:

May 2013- 18mg                Aug 2015- 7.7mg           Jan 2017- 3.2mg

July 2013- 16.2mg             Oct 2015 -7mg               (This is where it gets a bit hazy..

Aug 2013- 14.6mg             Nov 2015- 6.4mg            I continued to do a slow wean but

Oct 2013- 13.2mg              Jan 2016- 5.6mg            didn't keep records of all my further

Jan 2014- 11.8mg              Mar 2016- 5.2mg           reductions, have filled in what I remember)

March 2014-10.6mg          May 2016- 4.6mg          Aug 2018- 0.8mg

May 2014- 9.6mg               July 2016- 4.2mg          June 2019- 0mg

Dec 2014-8.6mg                 Nov 2016- 3.6mg         

 

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I have exercised throughout wd, but in gentle forms primarily. I do qi gong practice daily--this has been my mainstay and most important factor in getting through this time. It helps with both physical and emotional symptoms, and is also my main form of spiritual practice.

 

I walk, swim, or bike 6 days a week. I have to vary the times I do exercise, the amounts, and intensity. Instead of setting some time amount or standard, I simply go each time with what feels right to my body. I've only had a couple of times of feeling unwell from exercise, and that was riding a bit more intensely on my bike.

 

Exercise has been especially important since I stopped Remeron...being outside and walking saved me through the winter. It lifts my mood about 99% of the time and often lifts whatever physical symptoms I'm having too. Key for me is really listening, and not overdoing.

Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission.

Current Medications:

Current Supplements: Cannabis (CBD and THC), Vitamin C, D, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium, Methyl B. What has helped me most: spending time in nature, qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats..

My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282

Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself.

 

“After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.”
Mary Oliver
 

 

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I'm finding it more difficult to exercise especially since my dizziness has gotten worse. Any Suggestions?

40 year old male - First panic attack in May 2012

May 2012 Atenolol (beta blocker)25mg, Ativan 2mg
August 2012 Rapid taper ativan, started zoloft 25mg
Dec 2012... rapid taper zoloft,
January 2013 Xanax 1mg for 1 month
February 2013 Klonopin 1mg
April 2013 to May 2013 Rapid Taper Klonopin to 0.5mg
June 10th 2013 jumped from 0.5 Kpin and Atenolol 25mg
July 2013 two days of Ativan 1mg b/c of hospital visit
September 2013 started Effexor 75mg (this was a mistake i think)
July 2014 to October 2014 tapered off Effexor...

July 2015 - Reinstated zoloft 50mg

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Gentle exercise is recommended if strenuous activity increases symptoms. We have a couple of exercise related topics already with some suggestions:

 

Do people excersize while trying to stabilize?

 

Exercise: what, when, and when its too much

 

 

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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I just find it hard to walk when I'm so dizzy. Of course I did not realize strenuous exercise can increase cortisol.

40 year old male - First panic attack in May 2012

May 2012 Atenolol (beta blocker)25mg, Ativan 2mg
August 2012 Rapid taper ativan, started zoloft 25mg
Dec 2012... rapid taper zoloft,
January 2013 Xanax 1mg for 1 month
February 2013 Klonopin 1mg
April 2013 to May 2013 Rapid Taper Klonopin to 0.5mg
June 10th 2013 jumped from 0.5 Kpin and Atenolol 25mg
July 2013 two days of Ativan 1mg b/c of hospital visit
September 2013 started Effexor 75mg (this was a mistake i think)
July 2014 to October 2014 tapered off Effexor...

July 2015 - Reinstated zoloft 50mg

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I'm in the same position at the moment any exercise is hard for me at the mo....

 

I get extreme fatigue and anxiety which includes dizziness :(

 

I'm hoping it passes quick as exercise really helped me with my anxiety in the pass.

1999: amitriptyline
2002: fluoxetine
2003: venlafaxine
2007: Paxil 20mg
2012: Paxil 30mg
2014 june: Paxil stopped working and was put on citalopram 20mg
2014 august: docs put me on Paxil 20mg still feeling bad and had to stop antihistamines for hives
2015 January: doctors put me on sertriline 50mg
2015 February March: doctors wanted me to go back on Paxil 20mg
2015 April 1st: I wanted off and dropped to 10mg
9/5/15  Feeling worse for ware!  struggling but i WILL get through this

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am currently walking for about 30 minutes a day (it seems to be keeping me alert), although I have not really want to push the weights (I really want to). because of the fear of aggravating my symptoms.

 

 

 

Anybody see any improvements to the symptoms by going to the gym along with lifting weights or just having a regular gym session? Or does the exact opposite happen?

 

 

 

 

 

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Currently weights and running help me a lot, especially if I'm feeling some anxiety or even mild akathisia. It definitely helps with mood, but I've been pretty stable for a couple months now.

 

I went through a period of about 3 months when my withdrawal symptoms were horrendous and exercise made me feel worse or just didnt help. Even when it made me feel worse, the feeling worse was temporary. By that I mean it didn't seem to make me feel worse over all, just during and directly afterward.

 

I think it's different depending on how your symptoms are in general. Most might say that it's not a great idea to change things too much if you feel like your stability is fragile. If you really want to go to the gym you can always go and just take it very easy to see how it feels.

Either way, it's great that you're walking. Physical activity is healing and I believe some form of it extremely important during withdrawal.

1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg (with a few stops and starts)

Fall 2012: Returned to 40mg after discontinuing and horrid withdrawal 

Fall 2013: 40mg Fluoxetine, added 150mg Wellbutrin to treat fatigue 

Winter 2014: Attempting to taper both (too fast)

April 2014: 9mg Fluoxetine + 37.5 Wellbutrin 

Summer 2014: 8 mg Fluoxetine + 0 Wellbutrin (way too fast a drop)

Late summer/Early Fall 2014: Debilitating Withdrawal symptoms 

Fall 2014 - Wellbutrin successfully kicked to the curb but…

Oct- Dec 2014: Panicked reinstatement of Fluoxetine ->30mg - held for 5yrs

Jan 2021: taper to 20mg Fluoxetine  then tapering by 1mg every 2-3 months

Fall 2022 - held at 10mg->December 2022: 9mg->Feb 2023: 8mg ->March 2023: brassmonkey slide begins: 7.8mg -> 7.6 -> 7.4->2 week hold (April)->7.2->7mg->6.8->2 week hold->6.6-> 1-month hold ->(June)-6.5->4-week hold-> (July)-6.4 (discontinued brassmonkey slide and slowed taper)-> (Aug)-6.2->(Sept)-6.0->(Oct)-5.9->(Nov)-5.8->(Dec)-5.7->wave!->(Jan)-5.8->(Feb)-6mg and holding.

 

My 2014 withdrawal experience: https://rxisk.org/antidepressant-withdrawal-a-prozac-story/

 

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i'm 14 months off and I hardly leave the bed , I feel so tired most of the time and I can't  handle even a moderate walk , is this common ? feeling so frustrated knowing how physical activity can help the recovery  :(

On and off prozac from 2010 -2014 .

Several failed fast tapers and reinstatements .

Cold turkey : March  2014 .

-----------------------------------------

took lysanxia 40 mg a day for almost a year
november -14- 2018 weaned to 30 mg
november -26- 2018 weaned to 20 mg
symptoms that got better : fatigue
current symptoms : severe anxiety
one rescue dose (10 mg ) december -15 -2018
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Low tolerance for exercise is common in withdrawal, please read the link which I posted above.

Edited by Petunia
strike through/irrelevant, topics merged

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Every day, rain or shine, hot or cold, I put on a t-top and shorts, and walk 10 minutes.  I walk as fast or as slowly as I I feel like, as early as possible in the day (right now, that is about 1 pm).  This is the bare minimum.

 

I agree with Narcissus, who said last year:

 

I guess what I really want to do is encourage the long term sufferers here to try exerting themselves every now and then, even if it hurts initially and feels like a setback.  It might be exactly what's needed at certain times.  For me, the recommended walks in nature have not been sufficient to clear my symptoms, and long walks often seem to make me feel worse.  More vigorous exercise seems to have a qualitatively different effect, it seems to give my system a kind of jolt, similar to acupuncture treatments.  In other words, it seems to have a destabilizing effect, and while that words is somewhat maligned here (and understandably so), I'm convinced that some of the stability we achieve in withdrawal is unhealthy and should be disrupted. 

 

I think this is true for GENERAL mental health and wellness.  It is how I do my karate.  I go, dragging my feet, sometimes crying, and then submit to the class and do as I'm told.  AS SOON AS I GET HOME I jump into that magnesium bath.  I do the same for yoga.  Even if I felt like, "Oh, that was a really gentle class, it went really well" - I still hit the magnesium bath, because the price to pay if I am wrong - if I did overdo - is too high.  (My body finally seems to be okay with one karate class a week, but I still may have to quit again because my hand doesn't like it.)

 

However, in withdrawal, you are basically growing and rewiring a brain.  And the brain loves to use all your energy!

 

If your car is up on blocks, with all the electronics out, and low on fluids, it is not a good time to take it out for a performance drive!  Of course, brains aren't as mechanical as that, but even though my withdrawal is different (lithium rather than AD), while the brain is off kilter, it takes a LOT of energy.  

 

I have other problems too - and if I do ANYthing too hard or too long, I will pay for it.  Additionally - many people feel that "OMG I feel good today" and "Now is the time to DO STUFF."  Resist it.  Stick to your gentle routine, to avoid spikes and crashes.  And I acknowledge - those of us who are older feel like the slippery slope of aging is looming, and that if we don't exercise, we will die!  It's true - but if you overdo - then you undo your progress!

 

OVER TIME (and I mean, like years) you should be able to build up cardio, strength, flexibility, and endorphins.

 

Oh yeah, that was it:

 

Peggy said:

 

for me exercise is a very good anxiolytic.  Unfortunately i can't spend all day exercising, but the benefits of getting my heart rate up and puffing for 30mins last me a good few hours

 

While Addax warned:

 

 

In the meantime the readers digest version is: exercise is stress on the body and the body reacts by producing cortisol. The more intense the exercise the more cortisol produced. 

 

 

And Cressida put the two together:

 

I find walking for half an hour usually makes me feel good at the time then kicks off an exacerbation of symptoms.

 

It's like this:  as you exercise, the endorphins flow.  I'm not talking about the intensity of the runner's high - more of a blood is moving, muscles are moving, starts the juices flowing kind of gentle endorphins.  These can start quite easily, especially if you are sedentary.  

 

THEN, as you start to deplete your reserves, the cortisol kicks in to try and "keep you alive" while you are threatening the system.  

 

You may not think you are threatening the system - but your nervous system does.  You may think that pushing through it will help get you more endorphins, more fit - but if your cortisol keeps firing, you are only depleting your reserves, sending your system deeper into dysregulation and likely slowing your healing rather than helping.

 

I would suggest pushing for maybe a minute or two more.  But no longer.  Then, I would recommend taking off your shoes and standing in the cool grass and "letting go" (popularly called "grounding" by Mercola and friends) to help settle the cortisol.

 

I also strongly recommend magnesium bath after anything strenuous - whether that is a long day at work, or even a family picnic can be overwhelmingly active, just standing and talking can be stressful on the system.  

 

Lastly, I have to praise Bubble's statement that not all walks are created equal.  The healing power of nature is the essence of nurture. In my little 10 minute walks, I watch birds, the angle of the sun, the changes in the trees and flowers, and the native human wildlife, too.  And these nourish me, as well as the sun and the walk do.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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I really appreciate reading this today.  I have been regularly (twice a week) going to a Zumba Gold class.  The gold means it's less intensive, more geared toward seniors.  It's not difficult for me; I've been doing it for nearly two years now.  I had been wondering whether or not to quit going.

 

From what I read that you wrote it seems that it might be okay to keep going.  I had not thought of adding magnesium in after the fact.  I will try that.

 

What are your thoughts on yoga and w/d?

1986-2005:  Limbitrol (15 Librium/ 50 Elavil combo) 1986-2005, 2005-successfully tapered Librium

January of 2009-2011:  Mirtazapine 30 mg; Cymbalta 60 mg; tapered cymbalta fall/winter of 2011/12

March 2012-March 2014:  Mirtazapine, and various trials of Celexa, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and Lexapro; began Lexapro taper

9/18/14-Lexapro .7 mg; Mirtazapine 30 mg; 9/29/14 ditched Lexapro; added 25 mg Nortryptyline began mirtazapine taper

11/4/14:  Mirtazapine 15 mg; Nortryptyline about 12.5 mg; 1/17/15:  Mirtazapine 7.5 mg; Nortryptyline 2.5 mg, then jumped nortryptyline.

2/10:  Mirtazapine 1.875, 2/11:  Re-established at 6.75, 3/19-6.0 mg, 4/9-5.8, 4/17-6.3; 4/21 tried to re-establish at 7.5

4/23/15-Back to 5.8; 5/5-5.1mg; 5/16-4.6 mg; 5/24-4.2 mg; 6/2-3.9 mg; 6/9-3.6 mg; 6/16-3.3 mg; 6/23-3 mg

6/28-2.8 mg; 7/2-2.5 mg; 7/4-Jumped, due to increased misery from the drug itself.

In a spell of panic due to agitation and insomnia, went through a few days each of 10, then 5 mg amitryptyline and 5 mg librium. Did not work out well. Horrible insomnia now.

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I really appreciate reading this today.  I have been regularly (twice a week) going to a Zumba Gold class.  The gold means it's less intensive, more geared toward seniors.  It's not difficult for me; I've been doing it for nearly two years now.  I had been wondering whether or not to quit going.

 

From what I read that you wrote it seems that it might be okay to keep going.  I had not thought of adding magnesium in after the fact.  I will try that.

 

What are your thoughts on yoga and w/d?

What was making you think about quitting going? Feeling not so great afterwards?

 

Magnesium baths haven't been helping much lately, so I'm back to using lavender instead. That seems to be useful in helping to relax my muscles and in settling my nervous system.

 

I agree with JanCarol on both the importance of regular exercise, as well as the significance of the setting. Even a 10-15 minute gentle walk almost always makes me feel better afterwards and I only walk outside. I too, put a lot of focus on taking in what's around me and not on using it as a time to power through things. Sometimes, I listen to music while walking..as it seems to help my mind to focus more and can keep me out of negative thinking.

 

One thing I'm noticing recently is that my body temp has a lot to do with how I feel physically during and after exercise. I've taken to running a fan in the room where I ride my exercise bike..and am walking early in the am or later in the evening, when it's cooler. That seems to be helping to keep me me feeling a bit more balances.

 

Also, I'm currently taking a break from the swimming pool. While the swimming itself is beneficial and not too stimulating, I'm struggling with other aspects of being there. It's hard these days to find a time where the pool isn't crowded. My nervous system does not do well with dodging multiple people swimming in the same lane, nor the noise of screaming kids. Last time I was there, someone ran into me from behind. While that would be irritating under normal circumstances, this time, it sent me into a rage. I very quickly got out of the pool and came home. I'm feeling too emotionally fragile right now to contend with these things...so it's walking and biking for right now. I can't even imagine trying a gym or a class right now...both would feel like too much I think.

Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission.

Current Medications:

Current Supplements: Cannabis (CBD and THC), Vitamin C, D, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium, Methyl B. What has helped me most: spending time in nature, qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats..

My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282

Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself.

 

“After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.”
Mary Oliver
 

 

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>>What was making you think about quitting going? Feeling not so great afterwards?<<

 

 

 

I do zumba right before lunch and about the time dinner rolls around my muscles are all tight and bound up and that makes it hard for to relax, physically or mentally.  I bought some magnesium citrate and on Friday I took a small swig of that (don't want to take too much!) and I didn't really notice a difference - I wasn't wound up but then I'm not always.  I hesitate to give this class up because I always feel so much better mentally from the movement and the light socializing.

 

Yesterday morning I did some kundalini yoga with a small group of friends.  I've never done that before; it involved much more intensive breathing than I was used to.  Consequently I dozed on and off all afternoon, which was nice!  Had a bit more of a restless night but that could have been because of the dozing.

1986-2005:  Limbitrol (15 Librium/ 50 Elavil combo) 1986-2005, 2005-successfully tapered Librium

January of 2009-2011:  Mirtazapine 30 mg; Cymbalta 60 mg; tapered cymbalta fall/winter of 2011/12

March 2012-March 2014:  Mirtazapine, and various trials of Celexa, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and Lexapro; began Lexapro taper

9/18/14-Lexapro .7 mg; Mirtazapine 30 mg; 9/29/14 ditched Lexapro; added 25 mg Nortryptyline began mirtazapine taper

11/4/14:  Mirtazapine 15 mg; Nortryptyline about 12.5 mg; 1/17/15:  Mirtazapine 7.5 mg; Nortryptyline 2.5 mg, then jumped nortryptyline.

2/10:  Mirtazapine 1.875, 2/11:  Re-established at 6.75, 3/19-6.0 mg, 4/9-5.8, 4/17-6.3; 4/21 tried to re-establish at 7.5

4/23/15-Back to 5.8; 5/5-5.1mg; 5/16-4.6 mg; 5/24-4.2 mg; 6/2-3.9 mg; 6/9-3.6 mg; 6/16-3.3 mg; 6/23-3 mg

6/28-2.8 mg; 7/2-2.5 mg; 7/4-Jumped, due to increased misery from the drug itself.

In a spell of panic due to agitation and insomnia, went through a few days each of 10, then 5 mg amitryptyline and 5 mg librium. Did not work out well. Horrible insomnia now.

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Very nice summation, JanCarol.  

I feel like I'm eating those words I wrote on exercise last year.  Exerting myself seems to cause, by and large, negative reactions.  Those of us in extended withdrawal have to learn to resist the normally healthy impulse to push ourselves harder while exercising. It's been two and a half years and I'm still not able to do this.  Talk about a steep learning curve.  

 

The author of CFS Unravelled has some useful things to say about exercise, I'll see if I can find it.  

3 Years 150 mgs Effexor

2 month taper down to zero

3 terrible weeks at zero

Back up to 75 mgs

2 months at 75

6 or so months back to regular dose of 150 - was able to restabilize fine.

3 month taper back to zero

1 HORRENDOUS week at zero

2 days back up to 37.5

3 days back up to 75

One week at 150 - unable to stabilize.

Back down to 75 mgs

At 75 mgs (half original dose) and suffering withdrawal symptoms since October 2012.

 

"It is a radical cure for all pessimism to become ill, to remain ill for a good while, and then grow well for a still longer period." - Nietzsche

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>>What was making you think about quitting going? Feeling not so great afterwards?<<

 

 

 

I do zumba right before lunch and about the time dinner rolls around my muscles are all tight and bound up and that makes it hard for to relax, physically or mentally.  I bought some magnesium citrate and on Friday I took a small swig of that (don't want to take too much!) and I didn't really notice a difference - I wasn't wound up but then I'm not always.  I hesitate to give this class up because I always feel so much better mentally from the movement and the light socializing.

 

Yesterday morning I did some kundalini yoga with a small group of friends.  I've never done that before; it involved much more intensive breathing than I was used to.  Consequently I dozed on and off all afternoon, which was nice!  Had a bit more of a restless night but that could have been because of the dozing.

 

 

It's a challenge weighing everything out. Sometimes, a bit of physical discomfort can be worth it, when there's some greater benefit on the other side. This process can be so isolating, so there's a lot to be said for something a bit social..as well as benefits from the movement.

 

Have you used magnesium oil for sore muscles? I sometime use arnica, traumeel, or calms forte. The difference isn't dramatic, but they generally help somewhat. I haven't yet had a problem with any of those.

 

The yoga sounds good. Deep breathing can be helpful..as long as like anything, it isn't too intense. qi gong involves a lot of slower, deeper breathing...I find it really helps me.

Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission.

Current Medications:

Current Supplements: Cannabis (CBD and THC), Vitamin C, D, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium, Methyl B. What has helped me most: spending time in nature, qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats..

My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282

Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself.

 

“After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.”
Mary Oliver
 

 

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I've just realized I have extreme muscle weakness for 24 hours after lifting weights or even just doing some push-ups.

I did some push-ups yesterday and today I can't even do one. It's ridiculous. Anyone has the same problem?

September 2011 - 75 mg Effexor, 15 mg Mirtazapine
September 2012 - CT. Developed PSSD (mostly erectile dysfunction and diminished enjoyment of sex).
January 2016 - Symptoms persist, no improvements. In fact, things seem worse now than they were in the first year.

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Oh yeah, and i get sore really easy. I have what feels like lactic acid buildup at times but that has lessened.

Paxil start September 2003 due to Fluoroquinolone adverse reaction that I wish doc. knew what it was. 10mg. most of the time with a few short runs of 20mg. FAST tapered 3 times and finally hit poop out or a reaction to nsaid's in Nov.2013. Started a 10% taper Jan. 2014 and have been ok until Sept 14 and went through a short hell. Now plodding through and looking for the light with unrelenting insomnia and pain, fog, loss of interests....<p>12/20/14 - .8mg.

1/01/15 - .75 mg.

1/15/15 - .42 mg. better sleep now, hope it continues...

2/11-15 - .25 mg. doing really good!! 2 weeks feel 85% of old me!

3/17/15 .14 mg. Knee pain bad!

4/07/15 .05 mg. this is so small now that I am estimating and just licking it off palm small as a "." 

4/13/15 NOTHING !!!! Took my last little micro dose on 4/12/15. 

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I have been off the poisonous drugs for 3.5 years and over the past couple years have really gotten into exercise, fitness, and nutrition. I recently completed a fitness trainer certification as well.

 

In my case, i did notice post exercise weakness and when this would happen i needed to back of and rest. I am now at the advanced level of training where i workout 4 days a week and have cycles. The past few weeks i have been focusing on endurance exercises and have been having some malaise and so i think part of the problem is the exercise. I believe that the drugs cause widespread changes and disruptions in our musculoskeletal system (and all systems) and that is one reason some of us have this weakness after exercise. I think it is part of wd/ssri use.

 

I can recommend some ways to help: make certain you have a good diet with many easily digestable foods (raw green juices, soups, slow cooked meats), a quality whey protein post workout (grass fed source), whole foods multi vitamin, liquid trace mineral, glutamine, and branched train amimos. Likewise, make certain your rest time is sufficient; drink plenty of water and coconut water.

 

The idea is to provide your muscles with all the nutrients necessary for growth and repair while also giving them time to repair by resting. If at all possible, add some massage therapy.

 

Lastly, add some natural anti inflammatories and antioxidants. I like using vitamim c, tumeric, and ginger. Noni juice is also great.

Various SSRIs/SNRIs 7- 1/2 years

Went Cold Turkey from Celexa 2011, Stayed Off

Psych Drug Free and Loving Life (over 6 years and counting)

 

How I Stay Well: Diet, exercise, meditation, supplements, etc

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I have found exercise to be very helpful. I was very athletic before I got ill, but after I started quitting all the drugs two years ago I was either in bed or on the couch nearly 24 hours a day. About 4 months ago I started running again. Ridiculously low mileage at first but I have worked my way up to running/walking 45 minutes, every other day. It's painful but it's a good pain. I always feel better for hours after a workout, and I especially feel good during.

As requested. In the last 3 years to the best of my recollection I first dropped the max dose of Lamictal. Yes I just stopped it was doing absolutely nothing. Then I dropped Lexapro, that was even easier I had been on and off that a dozen times before. There were at least 2 odd off label attempts at anxiety that I won’t be able to remember. Then there was sweet/evil Seroquel. That was the last to go it’s been around 16 months.

Lithium, Prozac, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Celexa, Lamictal, Lexapro, Luvox, Viibryd, Brintellix, Pristiq, Zoloft, Seroquel, Zyprexa, Geodon, Abilify, Latuda, Ritalin, Adderall, Valium, Clonazepam, Alprazolam, Propanalol, Spravato

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I think it makes sense that exercise would be good for the brain and normalizing nervous system functioning. For now I can only do walks though, sometimes walking for hours at a time, but no running or anything too strenuous. 

I suffer from depression, anxiety, pure-o ocd, and panic attacks since 2004. Been on multiple different psychiatric drugs since 2006. Never had a significant WD problem before, only brain zaps for a month and then I'd be fine...............Been on Cipralex (escitalopram) 15 mg and Fluanxol (flupentixol) 1 mg since Sep 2014. Stopped taking the Cipralex after a fast 20-day taper.Took the last 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 5th, 2015. Then took Seroxat (paroxetine) 10 mg for a week, and stopped it too. Severe WD started suddenly on Feb 16th. RI 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 18th, 2015. RI worked and was relatively stable for a while................April 7 - decreased Fluanxol from 1 mg to 0.5 mg and took it at this dose for a week. - BIG MISTAKE; April 13 - WD starts creeping in; April 14 - RI full dose of Fluanxol 1 mg => severe muscle twitching and jerking when trying to relax and fall asleep, overwhelming sense of doom, dread, terror, and horror, insomnia, hoping to stabilize.
Tried doing a 10% cut off Fluanxol in the end of May for a few days, but quickly updosed to full dose because the twitching returned.
Experiencing waves and windows in the following months.
Unsuccessful brief taper attempt of Fluanxol by 5% on November 1st. Symptoms hit the next day. Too scared to continue tapering, reinstate full dose.
Severe crash in November after stupidly trying a barbiturate on November 9th. Grave mistake. Sense of unshakable inescapable internal torture, like my soul is in hell being tortured, terror/horror/dread/doom (probably akathisia?) that gets especially bad when trying to relax and fall asleep, muscles twitch, jerk and move on their own, shaking, insomnia, can't eat, confusion, disorientation, brain not working normally. Never felt so bad in my entire life. Never experiment with other meds while in WD! Praying to God I stabilize and get back to my baseline.
December - things getting even worse.

January - unbearable suffering

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Walking is great exercise. A real runner would laugh at what I call running though.

As requested. In the last 3 years to the best of my recollection I first dropped the max dose of Lamictal. Yes I just stopped it was doing absolutely nothing. Then I dropped Lexapro, that was even easier I had been on and off that a dozen times before. There were at least 2 odd off label attempts at anxiety that I won’t be able to remember. Then there was sweet/evil Seroquel. That was the last to go it’s been around 16 months.

Lithium, Prozac, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Celexa, Lamictal, Lexapro, Luvox, Viibryd, Brintellix, Pristiq, Zoloft, Seroquel, Zyprexa, Geodon, Abilify, Latuda, Ritalin, Adderall, Valium, Clonazepam, Alprazolam, Propanalol, Spravato

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I agree that walking is excellent exercise. Doing whatever you are able to do is enough...no matter what anyone else thinks of it. When I got my indoor exercise bike, I started out riding five to ten minutes 3x week. I've had to go a whole lot slower and exercise much less than I'd like to. Every day is different too...where I can do more or a bit more intensity on some days, but not others. I think as long as you are able and it doesn't exacerbate anything, doing any amount of exercise is a good thing.

Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission.

Current Medications:

Current Supplements: Cannabis (CBD and THC), Vitamin C, D, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium, Methyl B. What has helped me most: spending time in nature, qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats..

My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282

Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself.

 

“After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.”
Mary Oliver
 

 

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Miss Trish asks:

 

 

What are your thoughts on yoga and w/d?

 

I love yoga, and I recommend it for withdrawal.  

 

However, I do not recommend Bikram, Power Yoga, or intense cardio yoga of any sort - same problem as with other cardio forms of exercise.

 

I love yoga, I'm addicted to yoga, it is so freeing.  That said, I'm older than I used to be, and I have to be careful not to hurt myself.  Additionally, I find that Aussie yoga teachers are much more reckless and less correcting than what I am used to.  I encourage people to find someone who is hands on, who will roll your legs or open your shoulders, or hang you from a strap to get the correct alignment.  Aussie yoga teachers have straps and blocks, but don't know how to use them to make correct alignment.  Fortunately, I have decades of experience and can correct myself.  But I sure would love to have someone to help me, like I used to get in the USA.

 

There are a lot of articles about yoga on SA and BeyondMeds, and a number of them include videos to try.

Morning Yoga for the Challenged Nervous System

Gentle yoga for calming

For starters.

 

Miss Trish, again, talks about kundalini:

 

 

Yesterday morning I did some kundalini yoga with a small group of friends.  I've never done that before; it involved much more intensive breathing than I was used to.  Consequently I dozed on and off all afternoon, which was nice!  Had a bit more of a restless night but that could have been because of the dozing.

 

Kundalini, I would not encourage.  The very purpose of kundalini is to induce and create  altered states.  That is not something that someone in withdrawal would want.   It might be fine for someone healthy and well adjusted, to try and expand their consciousness, awareness, and induce spiritual growth.  However, there are a number of people who are here in SA because of induced "spiritual emergencies," whether by this type of practice, or through recreational drugs, and these "spiritual emergencies" sent them to hospital and got them drugged.  Additionally, kundalini can be easily used to control another's energy.  There are a lot of predators in the kundalini business.  

 

Start with hatha yoga, and then pranayama - when you have become more versed in chakras and balance, consider kundalini - but be sensitive to the energy of the instructor / teacher.  If it feels like you are "worshipping something," or if something feels "weird,"  I would back away from it.  My understanding of kundalini is very different to what is being taught in these pumping breathing, driving, explosive classes.  I was taught a great deal more care, when seeking to open chakras and spin energy through them.  They seem reckless to me.

 

 Pranayama (just learning about breathing) is better, more meditative, kundalini is more forceful, and can be dizzy-making and is probably dysregulating.  If, however, you find it is making you better, who am I to say otherwise?

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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I did find what I consider a pretty ideal exercise for withdrawal.

 

As a former athlete, I used to scoff at this, thinking, "that's not real exercise!"

 

It's powered toning tables and chairs.  It is $15-20 per session, of course the price goes down if you want more.  It takes about 45 minutes, it's like circuit training, except it is not weightlifting.  Each machine moves you in different positions, and you can make it harder by doing it slower, by engaging your core, and by resisting/flexing into each movement.

 

It wasn't enough to feel like a "good workout" - but it was moving, it was safe, and the environment of the studio is very pleasant.  EVERYONE in there says "hi" to me when I go, the music is gentle 70's & 80's mix from Spotify.  You don't need special clothes.  You don't sweat or get your heart rate up.  It takes you through various movements.  It's very good for someone with injury, or fatigue, or withdrawal.

 

The studios are very popular in the UK, and they are coming to the US and Australia.  We have about a half-dozen studios across the country - one is 10 minutes from my house, another is more like 25 minutes from my house (new opening) and there's another on the Southwest side, at Sunnybank.

 

Try searching "toning tables" or "shapemaster studio" to see if there is one near you.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Are you kidding me? Something that's supposed to be a natural treatment for anxiety and depression could make SSRI withdrawal worse? What am I supposed to do? Sit on the couch all day suffering and letting my body deteriorate?

Paxil: March 2007 - February 2010

January 2011 - September 2013

Accutane: November 2010 - December 2010

Lexapro: September 2013 - present (20mg until Jan 2015 went straight to 10mg with no problems May 2015 went to 5mg and started feeling anxiety a few days later and just got worse. Reinstated back to 10mg a few days after trying to tough out the withdrawal. No improvements into June and was upped to 15mg. Still no improvements. Actually worse than ever.)

Klonopin: Occasional/temporary use between starting Lexapro. Never took longer than 2 or 3 weeks.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

"Natural treatments" for anxiety and depression are not the same as treatments for withdrawal.

 

This goes for supplements, and intense practices.  Even pranayama, when taken to extremes (like Art of Living / AOL), can send you off the charts.

 

Think, gentle.  Safe.  We are conditioned in Western society to push and strive - but I think that's why we get sick to begin with.  It's not balanced with rest and care and nurturing.  

 

Choose practices which are gentle, nurturing, safe.  You can push and strive LATER, when you are better.  

 

YES, exercise is AWESOME for depression and anxiety and anger and wild mood swings.  AWESOME.  But when you are dysregulated, in withdrawal, those same things can make your symptoms WORSE, and slow your healing down.

 

YES, you can exercise in withdrawal.  Just don't push it.  Just do what feels good, and if you find you crash, or pay a price for that exercise for more than a day - then you have done too much.  At least, that's the guide I use.  If I'm still having trouble 2-3 days out, either I skipped the magnesium bath, or I did too much.  So next time, I do less, or I do it more gently.  Sometimes I take a heart-rate monitor to yoga class to make sure that the up/down/up/down postural hypotension doesn't set me off.  But I still go to yoga!

 

Your body (not me) is your best guide to what is right for you.  I posted what I posted here as a caution - so that you don't beat yourself up if it turns out to be too much, as is often the case.  Even Ten, the ex-marathon heavy-weightlifting guy, is finding that he cannot push himself while in withdrawal.  So many of us have had to pull back, and rest.

 

It takes a LOT of energy to heal a brain.  There may not be enough left over for intense exercise.  But by all means, keep moving - just make it gentle, easy-going.  Find out what your limits are, and listen to your body.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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I agree exercise is great but yes one has to be careful on your choice! For example I have a treadmill at home but long runs make me feel worse now...I just walk on it when outside is raining. By the way I have also days in which I WON'T exercise -_-  in the future I'll try yoga...a lot of people say that is great

06/2012 - 02/2015 CIPRALEX 10 mg (for somatic abdominal pain + reflux) - prior to this NOT any significant episode of anxiety/depression

on medication: emotional-sexual numbness, total inability to cry, +8 kg, fatigue -> abdominal pain gone

02/2015 - 1/04/2015 tapering from 10 mg to 0 mg doctor advised

05/05/2015 huge anxiety, burning skin sensation, panic, fear, not able to cry again, never-had-before insomnia, totally lost appetite, little loss of vision in one eye, sweating, chest pain, short breath, restlessness, accelerated heartbeat, mild akathisia legs-feet

30/05/2015 reinstated 8mg (I was suggested 5 mg here)

middle 07/2015 general improving

10/2015 start disastrous too long taper 7mg  11/2015 6mg  12/2015 5mg 1/2016 4mg  2/2016 4mg  3/2016 3mg ->FAIL back to 4mg .... 8/2016 3mg 8/2017 2mg  (short wave in summer '17) 8/2018 2mg stable  8/2019 1mg  1/2020 0.6 mg 

1/APRIL/2020 0mg FREE!

7/2020 - 10/2020 MILD WAVE(mostly anxiety, poor sleep)

6/2021 - 9/2021 WAVE (anxiety, severe insomnia, total loss of appetite, deep depression, internal restlessness, anhedonia)  0.125g triazolam  2 times

18/03/2022 WAVE (anxiety, severe insomnia, total loss of appetite, PAIN in muscles and nerves, arms and right leg,cannot exercise,hard to walk) 0.125g triazolam 3 times

7/5 rein 0.1mg

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  • 4 weeks later...

I am two weeks post taper completion.  I had a beautiful window on Thursday.  I'd had a bad 24 hours, then made myself go to my gentle yoga class.  It was tough (for me - it's an easy class but I felt physically sick and wasn't sure I could even finish the class.)  But by the time it was over, I felt my mood lift, my anxiety go away and I felt great for over a day.  However, next morning I decided on a 10 minute walk.  I had been doing senior zumba twice a week, so thought I would be good to myself by reducing my load, since physically I really don't feel so hot.  I knew I could push myself through it but wasn't sure that was a good idea.  I last did zumba on Monday, and had a horrible night.  No sleep at all.

 

But anyway last night the anxiety had started creeping back in.  I walked again this morning (10 minutes) and boy this afternoon I feel buzzed, and not in a good way.  Does not bode well for tonight's sleep.  I'm also, btw, doing 20 minutes of very gentle yoga, in the afternoons.

 

I'm wondering if I need to not walk 10 minutes a day, if the cortisol spikes are what's adding to the anxiety.  I hate that; I've been more physically active than ever before in my life this past year and I know my overall health has improved tremendously.  Now I'm losing it.

1986-2005:  Limbitrol (15 Librium/ 50 Elavil combo) 1986-2005, 2005-successfully tapered Librium

January of 2009-2011:  Mirtazapine 30 mg; Cymbalta 60 mg; tapered cymbalta fall/winter of 2011/12

March 2012-March 2014:  Mirtazapine, and various trials of Celexa, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and Lexapro; began Lexapro taper

9/18/14-Lexapro .7 mg; Mirtazapine 30 mg; 9/29/14 ditched Lexapro; added 25 mg Nortryptyline began mirtazapine taper

11/4/14:  Mirtazapine 15 mg; Nortryptyline about 12.5 mg; 1/17/15:  Mirtazapine 7.5 mg; Nortryptyline 2.5 mg, then jumped nortryptyline.

2/10:  Mirtazapine 1.875, 2/11:  Re-established at 6.75, 3/19-6.0 mg, 4/9-5.8, 4/17-6.3; 4/21 tried to re-establish at 7.5

4/23/15-Back to 5.8; 5/5-5.1mg; 5/16-4.6 mg; 5/24-4.2 mg; 6/2-3.9 mg; 6/9-3.6 mg; 6/16-3.3 mg; 6/23-3 mg

6/28-2.8 mg; 7/2-2.5 mg; 7/4-Jumped, due to increased misery from the drug itself.

In a spell of panic due to agitation and insomnia, went through a few days each of 10, then 5 mg amitryptyline and 5 mg librium. Did not work out well. Horrible insomnia now.

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