Exercise ... Do more, do less, do nothing? What worked for you?

[GrievingFirefly]

Hello all.  After 3 years of being sedentary, I acquired a gym membership in November.  As part of the initiation, I was given 2 free sessions with a trainer.  She convinced me to sign up for a package because my body fat percentage is so high/I'm overweight.  Despite repeatedly telling her I need to go gentler, she pushes me very hard.  I am in the midst of an awful destabilizing event since my recent attempt to cut 10% of Lexapro (see my Intro thread).  I am now stabilized on 9.75 mg.  However, I think her extremely hard training of me is having deleterious effects.  I have been waking up early morning with panic and anxiety (probably cortisol) ever since my mom's suicide (almost 1 year now), but when she works me out very hard I wake up even more for two nights throughout the night.  My legs shake and tremble, and yet she pushes me to keep doing sets of various leg curls, lunges, squats.  I think I need to quit this training especially since she does not respond to my requests for lowering intensity.  Can anyone offer any perspective?

[Happy2Heal]

if the training is making your symptoms worse (and that seems to be the case) and the trainer is refusing to listen to you. you should do what is best for you.

 

you are the only one who will suffer if you don't listen to your body.  

 

 most of us were able to do some gentle walking, 30 mins or so daily when symptoms were bad. but for many of us doing more caused an increase in symptoms, I could do a bit more sometimes and be ok but even a year or two after getting off the lexapro completely, I still could not do aerobic exercise after noon or I would have insomnia that night. 😕

 

 

one possible exception is if you have a lot of anxious energy and walking/exercising more feels good to  you, and if it is not disrupting your sleep or making your symptoms worse, then do that.  

 

or whatever else you find is HELPING you

 

some people can tolerate more exercise. Others just can't and it is NOT a personal failing, it is due to the enormous amnt of healing going on in your body as you withdraw from these drugs.

 

so anyway:

if it's not helping and esp if it's making things worse, just say NO

 

I am very sorry about you mom's suicide. I can't even imagine how you are feeling or dealing with that.

 

PS I am also a survivor of abuse, all kinds- I am so sorry for what you went thru.

I was also was on lexapro. please go very slowly to get off this drug, I was on a lot of different drugs in my life but that was one the strongest and hardest to get off of. You may find you need to go slower the lower you do in dose. 

it is very tempting to go quicker, esp when you've decided and feel strongly that the drug is more harmful than helpful. But honestly those who went slower had a much easier time, and the time is going to pass anyway. Ya know?

 

 

 

 

 

[EveningMuffin]

Please, save your money and your sanity. First, fire the trainer. She's doesn't care for you but for how to get your money. If you do not feel good with your training program, you will not stick to it for a long term and consistently.

Second, bodyfat reduction is done in the kitchen. Diet is the most important thing. You cannot out-train a baddiet - it's CICO - calories In, calories out.

Start with walking, doesn't need a gym membership at all, then some add bodyweight exercises, if you feel so. Read it on Google, it has all you need there. Don't pay anyone for an exercise program, a diet plan, etc. It's all free and available.

Good luck.

[FeralCatman]

I found a resource that may be helpful to some. Since this whole process is a form of dysautonomia there are actually dysautonomia rehab programs in a few places. This link is to Dysautonomia International and has recommendations for people in various states of dysautonomia including those that are largely bed bound. This may be especially helpful to those that are severely ill in PAWS to at least keep moving and perhaps help the healing process a bit.

 

https://www.dysautonomiainternational.org/page.php?ID=43

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

interesting @FeralCatman

 

thanks for the link! gonna check that out as I have some physical issues that make it hard for me to exercise much and being stuck indoors in the bad weather I don;t walk as much as I do when the weather is good

 

 

[FeralCatman]

@Happy2HealI have a Concept 2 rowing machine at home that has been great for my Ankylosing Spondylitis. I use it as tolerated by my Nervous System.

 

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers

[FeralCatman]

Here are 2 links to the Shaolin Temple Europe. One is a YouTube link and the other is a link to the headmasters personal website. I really love this guy. Buddhism makes good sense to me personally and their philosophies and some of the gentle exercises are useful in healing from something like withdrawal and PAWS. You have to sort through the sites to find things that may work for you but there is a lot of very gentle exercises that even those who are largely bed bound can still do including the breathing and meditative exercises. Not only are they helpful with the body but also the mind especially with the crippling anxiety we all seem to go through. His voice and mannerisms are very calming.

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/ShaolinTempleEU

 

https://www.shihengyi.online/

 

 

[Daniel1269]

Hello,

 

Please can someone advise me about exercise, I love to resistance train 3 days a week and go jogging once a week and it really keeps me going, am I going to have to stop this when I start my taper? 
 

Can I just see how my body reacts to exercise when I start? I really don’t want to give it up it and will be devastated if I have to.

 

I also have 20g 90% dark chocolate everyday, will I have to give that up too or is the caffeine content negligible, or can I just see how my body reacts too?

 

Obviously I will have to give it up if WD are bad, but can I at least try keeping them in before I start as opposed to just down right quitting both of them without assessing anything?

 

Many Thanks.

[marconyc]

3 hours ago, Daniel1269 said:

Hello,

 

Please can someone advise me about exercise, I love to resistance train 3 days a week and go jogging once a week and it really keeps me going, am I going to have to stop this when I start my taper? 
 

Can I just see how my body reacts to exercise when I start? I really don’t want to give it up it and will be devastated if I have to.

 

I also have 20g 90% dark chocolate everyday, will I have to give that up too or is the caffeine content negligible, or can I just see how my body reacts too?

 

Obviously I will have to give it up if WD are bad, but can I at least try keeping them in before I start as opposed to just down right quitting both of them without assessing anything?

 

Many Thanks.

 

Exercise has been a cornerstone for me in managing my moods before tapering and for managing withdrawal. I have done both strength training and cardiovascular exercise while tapering, and both have been very helpful. The most important thing is to listen to your body. When I was in acute withdrawal, playing a high-intensity game of soccer was often too much for my nervous system, but a long, slow run was great. Running was a godsend. I also think resistance/strength training is a good option for someone tapering because it doesn't tend to elevate heart rate as much as cardiovascular exercise, and in my experience, an elevated heart rate can worsen withdrawal symptoms like anxiety. Strength training might also be helpful for the nervous system through a different set of mechanisms than cardiovascular exercise (eg, through BDNF and other neurotransmitter modulators). I have recently seen some research on this. For me, exercises like yoga often didn't help me release tension enough and my body couldn't settle down, so more strenuous exercise was helpful as long as I didn't overshoot. That would happen if the exercise was too intense and/or I was depleted in some way because I wasn't sleeping well or eating enough. 

Edited February 16 by marconyc

[OffPills]

I can recommend some resistance training (body building).

 

It had been 15 years since I use to train. 2/3 times a week I trained one muscle group, but had to stop due to a shoulder injury.

 

January first I stopped smoking and January 6th I started a new taper. The 33% drop of citalopram was big, but I’m managing the symptoms. What I believe has helped me, was that I started training again after all these years. Every evening at home with a set of old 10KG dumbbells (I need heavier ones already), with about one rest day a week when I feel my body needs it. I began with 20 minutes, but now I can manage 35 to 40 minutes per muscle group, which is enough for a good pump. Eating even healthier than I already did is a positive side effect as well. I notice my body is transforming already (thanks muscle memory), and this has a positive influence on my mental well-being, along with the physical benefits of training.

 

So, training to combat WD symptoms? I quote Ronnie Coleman and say; ‘YEAH BUDDY!!’

[jon1]

I posted in this thread a couple of years ago, explaining how going to the gym helped me enormously when I was tapering.

 

However, it's been a very different story since taking my final dose back at the end of 2021.

 

Within a few weeks, my capacity to exercise fell dramatically. It wasn't so much that I didn't have the energy to exercise, more that the 'rebound' effects were horrendous. With extremely high anxiety and terrible irritability occurring within a few hours, followed by several days of lethargy and depression.

 

Unfortunately, it's now over two years on, and I'm still severely limited in what I can do. Even going for a walk for more than a few minutes can cause a wave of symptoms within a few hours.

 

I can cope with most of it, but the irritability is the worst, and I also get extremely sensitive to sounds. The slightest noise that I wouldn't even notice normally makes me very agitated. It happens every time, even after low-intensity exercise like a walk.

 

The rebound effects of exercise do seem to have reduced a bit. It used to take a week to get over going for a walk, now it's 2-3 days. So hopefully that's a sign of gradual improvement. It's hard to tell.

 

Interestingly, I was lucky enough to see a doctor who's also a sports medicine specialist, and he said he has heard of SSRIs having effects like this. His theory is that my nervous system isn't currently robust enough to 'mop up' the stress hormones that naturally increase in the body after any form of exercise. Because of this, they continue building up to high levels long after finishing what I was doing, and it takes a while for my system to wash them out.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is the way our bodies react to exercise can change quite quickly. So what worked a few weeks ago may not work now. Listen to your body and don't force yourself to do anything (like you wouldn't normally) as it can trigger an onset of symptoms.

[Telomere]

Exercise has been my savior through the withdrawals. It’s been tricky to identify how much and what kind to do when though, but I think I have identified what works at the moment. Keeping more intense exercise limited to first half of the day (HIIT, strength) gets me better sleep than when I do these kind of exercises in the evening. 20-min of Qi Gong when I absolutely don’t feel like moving but know I need to helps (look up Mimi Kuo Deemer on YouTube). 
 

I had to work on undoing my all-or-nothing mindset regarding exercise— for instance if I didn’t have one hour to spare, I would skip exercising completely instead of finding a middle path. I came to accept that the type of exercise and duration needs to vary based on my body, mind and life’s needs rather than forcing a fixed amount/type/duration per week. Sort of like being disciplined within guardrails instead of being on a fixed inflexible track. 

[Telomere]

Tracking HRV, which is a measure of how one’s ANS is functioning, also helps to know how much to exercise.

[Daniel1269]

13 hours ago, OffPills said:

So, training to combat WD symptoms? I quote Ronnie Coleman and say; ‘YEAH BUDDY!!’

@OffPills,

 

Love that you, great stuff x

[OffPills]

Hi @jon1,

 

I’m sorry to read that your capacity to exercise fell so dramatically after your final dose. I hope your symptoms will disappear soon. 

 

I hope I can continue to train while tapering, and after my final dose. I do however recognize your symptom, being so sensitive to sounds after exercising. But in my case this symptom is always present when tapering, not only after exercising. Training at home helps, because when I’m producing some sounds myself it doesn’t bother me. But sounds produced by other people, or for example these annoying magpies terrorizing the neighborhood, makes me furious.

 
Thanks for your youtube-tip @Telomere.

 

 

Stay strong everybody!💪🏻

 

 

 

[jon1]

7 minutes ago, OffPills said:

Hi @jon1,

 

I’m sorry to read that your capacity to exercise fell so dramatically after your final dose. I hope your symptoms will disappear soon. 

 

I hope I can continue to train while tapering, and after my final dose. I do however recognize your symptom, being so sensitive to sounds after exercising. But in my case this symptom is always present when tapering, not only after exercising. Training at home helps, because when I’m producing some sounds myself it doesn’t bother me. But sounds produced by others people, or for example these annoying magpies terrorizing the neighborhood, makes me furious.

 

Thanks very much!

 

Yes, the sound sensitivity you describe appears to be the same as mine.

 

If I'm making a noise, I don't notice, but if someone/something else does, it incites rage! My partner has been really helpful, trying to reduce noises around the house (such as clattering plates, etc), but I've noticed as soon as one sound is eliminated, another one I hadn't heard before will take its place! It's like my nervous system is looking for something to attach anxiety to.

 

As hearing sensitivity is activated by the CNS when in 'fight or flight' mode, it must be that it stays switched on almost permanently for some of us, and when we stress our bodies in other ways, like exercise, it exacerbates it further.

[OffPills]

41 minutes ago, jon1 said:

 

Thanks very much!

 

Yes, the sound sensitivity you describe appears to be the same as mine.

 

If I'm making a noise, I don't notice, but if someone/something else does, it incites rage! My partner has been really helpful, trying to reduce noises around the house (such as clattering plates, etc), but I've noticed as soon as one sound is eliminated, another one I hadn't heard before will take its place! It's like my nervous system is looking for something to attach anxiety to.

 

As hearing sensitivity is activated by the CNS when in 'fight or flight' mode, it must be that it stays switched on almost permanently for some of us, and when we stress our bodies in other ways, like exercise, it exacerbates it further.

Good to read that your partner is so helpful, it seems that in that perspective you’re lucky!

 

Your statement about our CNS being switched on to ‘fight or flight mode’ permanently is not my experience. In my case the sensitivity to sounds did subside when I was on hold for a longer period. I hope your symptoms will subside quickly as well!

[jon1]

35 minutes ago, OffPills said:

Good to read that your partner is so helpful, it seems that in that perspective you’re lucky!

 

Your statement about our CNS being switched on to ‘fight or flight mode’ permanently is not my experience. In my case the sensitivity to sounds did subside when I was on hold for a longer period. I hope your symptoms will subside quickly as well!

Oh yes, sorry, I probably wasn’t being clear enough! The sound sensitivity and most other symptoms did subside when I had adjusted to a new dose.

 

It’s since I stopped completely that I’ve been permanently ‘switched on’.

[OffPills]

Ah ok @jon1, I understand. Hopefully this will change soon!