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Exercise ... Do more, do less, do nothing? What worked for you?

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Mort81

Hey Osk were you able to exercise the whole time during WD?

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oskcajga

Yes, most of the time I could handle exercise - and it helped mildly relieve Akathesia/panic/anxiety symptoms when nothing else would.  There were definitely some periods of exercise intolerance, but even during those periods I never had any problems with long walks (1-4 miles).

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Mort81

Okay thanks. I haven't been able to tolerate anything other than walks yet.

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starcontrol2

I find that exercise generally helps. I feel very tired and sleepy all the time and I have to force myself to run or swim but once I start it feels ok and does offer calming relief most times.

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Cressida

Okay thanks. I haven't been able to tolerate anything other than walks yet.

I mention this in case it is of use to you.

I realised at the beginning of the year that my current problems are related to the histamine intolerance I developed at 2years off meds. I have been following my version of low histamine diet since then and things have gradually improved ( and I ve lost weight at a rate of half a pound a week adding up to 28lb yippee). Now I have had problems with exercise in the same period. Recently while feeling better I have noticed I can do 6000-12000 steps around house and garden or gently strolling with H but if I go for a walk alone I get symptoms. The same symptoms as if I had ingested a histamine trigger food. Dreams , palpitation wake ups, burning skin, always at night, that I had originally attributed to just raised cortisol levels from WD that I couldn't do anything about. My symptoms were not amenable to blacking out light etc made no difference.

So. I thought why symptoms when I walk alone? Anxiety ? Didn't think so. Alone I naturally picked up the pace. H is a bit of a dawdler. One question to google revealed that aerobic and resistance exercise releases histamine, a vasodilator. Hence it triggering my symptoms and leaving my unable to exercise. The more unfit you are the more histamine is released vicious circle. So can pick up armfuls of leaves in the garden but digging with a trowel will give me symptoms.

I googled graded exercise therapy which is how they treat chronic fatigue syndrome and am going to implement a program from today. Basically start keeping within what you can tolerate and systematically and incrementally increase it. A bit like rigidly sticking to my low histamine diet has brought improvement , there don't seem to be any quick fixes. But the boom and bust cycle either eating or exercising will keep you where you are now.

 

I don't know if any of this makes sense to you it is just what I have puzzled out about myself.

On another note. I have just taken up knitting. I soon noticed it was becoming a bit addictive so consulted google and apparently the same areas in your brain light up as when you practise meditation or mindfulness and it increases serotonin levels, the latter being why I have to restrict my knitting fixes ! I would assume any creative activity that requires focus and concentration would bring about the same improvements I have noticed.

I hope there maybe something in there of help as the inability to exercise thing frustrates and worries me too.

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oskcajga

 

Okay thanks. I haven't been able to tolerate anything other than walks yet.

I mention this in case it is of use to you.

I realised at the beginning of the year that my current problems are related to the histamine intolerance I developed at 2years off meds. I have been following my version of low histamine diet since then and things have gradually improved ( and I ve lost weight at a rate of half a pound a week adding up to 28lb yippee). Now I have had problems with exercise in the same period. Recently while feeling better I have noticed I can do 6000-12000 steps around house and garden or gently strolling with H but if I go for a walk alone I get symptoms. The same symptoms as if I had ingested a histamine trigger food. Dreams , palpitation wake ups, burning skin, always at night, that I had originally attributed to just raised cortisol levels from WD that I couldn't do anything about. My symptoms were not amenable to blacking out light etc made no difference.

So. I thought why symptoms when I walk alone? Anxiety ? Didn't think so. Alone I naturally picked up the pace. H is a bit of a dawdler. One question to google revealed that aerobic and resistance exercise releases histamine, a vasodilator. Hence it triggering my symptoms and leaving my unable to exercise. The more unfit you are the more histamine is released vicious circle. So can pick up armfuls of leaves in the garden but digging with a trowel will give me symptoms.

I googled graded exercise therapy which is how they treat chronic fatigue syndrome and am going to implement a program from today. Basically start keeping within what you can tolerate and systematically and incrementally increase it. A bit like rigidly sticking to my low histamine diet has brought improvement , there don't seem to be any quick fixes. But the boom and bust cycle either eating or exercising will keep you where you are now.

 

I don't know if any of this makes sense to you it is just what I have puzzled out about myself.

On another note. I have just taken up knitting. I soon noticed it was becoming a bit addictive so consulted google and apparently the same areas in your brain light up as when you practise meditation or mindfulness and it increases serotonin levels, the latter being why I have to restrict my knitting fixes ! I would assume any creative activity that requires focus and concentration would bring about the same improvements I have noticed.

I hope there maybe something in there of help as the inability to exercise thing frustrates and worries me too.

 

 

How do you know your problems are related to histamine?  Please be specific.

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Cressida

I didn't for a long time. I just had these seemingly random exacerbations of symptoms that it seemed impossible to control or predict. I ve never had an allergy or an intolerance to any foodstuff in my life before and it seemed unlikely that things I d been eating all my life were now causing me a problem. But in desperation having picked up on a few things that resonated in other people's threads I looked into it started keeping a food diary and noticed associations with my eating certain foods and having bad palpitations burning skin and dreams during the night and waking with bad anxiety. So I started to cut things out ( I also react badly to sugar and caffeine ) and I noticed that if I had the problem foods ( sometimes its difficult in restaurants for example you don't know always everything in the dish ) I would have a bad night/flare up. So I have stuck to my version of a low histamine diet, everyone is slightly different and things have calmed down a lot. Its my belief if I hadn't stumbled into this it would take me a lot longer to get well because my system would be constantly be being revved up whereas I keep things as same and as calm as possible. As with everything in WD there is no rule book or map I m just blundering along like everyone else but for the most part , despite still having some symptoms and restrictions my days are mainly happy . Probably not great by a "normal" persons standards but much improved over the last few years by mine . I hope that helps

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redangel

I also am curious about the histamine?  And how to control it with diet.  Also, is there any way to control the cortisol spikes with diet?  I am walking every day.  How far and often depends on how I feel.  After being put on ad's in the 90's I started having muscle soreness.  So then was diagnosed with fibro and fatigue syndrome.   Wonder how much of that was a direct cause of the ad's.  Still after 8 months now of being ad free i still am having the muscle soreness and fatigue.  But I do still make myself walk because at one time i was a very active person and I will become that person again!  Im so angry with what life the  meds have took away from me i refuse to allow the rest of my life to be controlled by them. I tried starting back on aerobics but guess to soon still for that.  But I will!!! Im 59 yrs now and want some quality of life back.    I raised 6 children by myself, was a soccer coach for some of them for years as well as worked more then a full time job. Then in 2002 I had to take in 2 grand children to raise. They still are with me even though they are 17 and 18 now.  And they are very stressful!   My adult children are living scattered all over the US and I miss them so very much! I could use their moral support!  Yesterday I was wishing I could go back into the past and have a re do butten

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Cressida

Am less interested in the actual biochemistry than I am in identifying a problem and trying to sort it. So what I called my cortisol surges have responded to my low histamine no alcohol no caffeine no sugar diet. I did say not completely fixed yet but I hope to be and am much improved. I am very disciplined I never deviate . I do totally sympathise with your situation and share your frustrations. I don't think everyone in WD is necessarily intolerant of these things but suspect quite a few of the long termers may be. There is NO magic bullet in WD this isn't either but it has helped me a lot

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redangel

I know I have been doing a lot better since Ive become vegan!  As far as the pain levels and mental confusion.  For Thanksgiving and the day after I broke my vegan diet, did dairy products and sugar and yesterday and today am in a lot more pain and mental problems.  So back to vegan for me.  And I do agree with sugar, it is poison to me

 

Am less interested in the actual biochemistry than I am in identifying a problem and trying to sort it. So what I called my cortisol surges have responded to my low histamine no alcohol no caffeine no sugar diet. I did say not completely fixed yet but I hope to be and am much improved. I am very disciplined I never deviate . I do totally sympathise with your situation and share your frustrations. I don't think everyone in WD is necessarily intolerant of these things but suspect quite a few of the long termers may be. There is NO magic bullet in WD this isn't either but it has helped me a lot

 

 

Am less interested in the actual biochemistry than I am in identifying a problem and trying to sort it. So what I called my cortisol surges have responded to my low histamine no alcohol no caffeine no sugar diet. I did say not completely fixed yet but I hope to be and am much improved. I am very disciplined I never deviate . I do totally sympathise with your situation and share your frustrations. I don't think everyone in WD is necessarily intolerant of these things but suspect quite a few of the long termers may be. There is NO magic bullet in WD this isn't either but it has helped me a lot

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Cressida

A vegan diet would be very low histamine by definition. I don't think we can underestimate the importance of what we eat in WD to promote healing. I was astonished to learn that something like 90% of serotonin is found in the gut.

Good for you. I hope you get well very very soon

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oskcajga

I get the sense that this whole histamine intolerance theory is not very well substantiated and strongly anecdotal. 

 

Are there any objective ways to get "tested" for histamine intolerance?  If not, it seems like a bunch of hand-waving.

 

It sounds a lot like the whole "gluten free" fad, where someone swears that they're allergic to gluten - but in reality it's only relevant to a very very small % of the general population - and therefore almost entirely placebo.

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Pretzle

Hey there. 

 

So, I'm currently tapering off from Citalopram. I usually exercise pretty much daily (some days an actual workout, other days stretching/mobility exercises). (Shout out to 'ifyoucanmove.com'  Keaira Lashae's website - it's an online gym and I love how motivating she is :)).

 

Sunday I fell over during a workout (dizziness/vertigo and hopping back and forth don't mix very well. Who would've thought). No bruises or anything, don't worry :) 

 

Basically I'm asking: During withdrawal/tapering, do you exercise as usual? More, less? How has it effected your ability to exercise. What should I aim for?  

 

I try to keep moving (I cycle 20 mins to work, and back daily. With some other cycling mixed in, so I'm moving a bit anyway). I miss being able to go hard at exercising, though. But (I hope) that'll come back once I get used to the dose I'm at now. 

 

Other than that, when I was at a high dose (40 mg) I typically slept for 11-13 hours a night, and often took an hour/90 minute nap during the day. Recently I didn't need the naps anymore and would sleep 9-10 hours a night (pretty normal for me, I've always needed quite a bit of sleep. I just go to bed early to make sure I can get enough sleep.)

 

Over the last 4 days I've taken 2 naps (basically, when it's possible I'll nap for a bit). I've noticed that after a nap the spacy feeling/dizziness is gone for a bit (for about an hour) before it returns. So I feel like apparently the naps are good for me (I mean, naps give your brain a break, which is probably especially important during withdrawal). 

 

So for the naps: It's ok right? I shouldn't feel bad for napping if possible. (Just want some 'Yeah, it's ok, take and enjoy those naps :) You need them/you've earned them in trying to come off meds'). 

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Meimeiquest

Wow, good for you..I need to check out that site. The "official" recommendation is 30 minutes of gentle exercise/day. The definition of gentle of course varies depending on prior fitness level. The goal is to avoid stimulating excessive cortisol production which vigorous exercise can do.

 

As long as you can still sleep at night, as much rest as possible is a good thing. Brains repair themselves during sleep.

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Gibby

I'm tapering from a higher dose of citalopram and much slower, and this is my first real drop, so maybe my experience isn't the most accurate, but:

 

I can exercise by walking and swimming without much difficulty. Running will be hard sometimes because one of my tapering symptoms has been stomach issues that flare up when I try to run. So there's that "gentle exercise" thing, swimming and walking will have to be the main ways of staying active if my stomach keeps cramping up.

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Pretzle

Thanks for the reply. 

 

it's good to read that at least it's normal to have to take it slower than before. (And bad to see that we have to take it slower, if you know what I mean :/).

 

Let's all keep active in whatever way we can :) 

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KarenB

I've found exercise quite a tricky thing to work out.  I find I have conflicting feelings about it, because all my pre-w/d instincts tell me to get out and exercise in order to be happier, and also tireder so I sleep better at night, and just for general health.

 

But then my new instincts are not to do too much in case I over-activate my nervous system and end up with worse symptoms.

 

Over the last 6 months I've arrived at a bit of a middle-ground, which does change depending if I'm in a wave or window.  I changed my yoga class to a 'gentle yoga' class, and I talked to the teacher about why I might be in 'child's pose' at random moments.  I had to stop dance - it was way too active.  I can garden in fairly short bursts, especially if it's not too sunny.  Lately I can walk further, but running just doesn't happen :).  

 

Really I just had to try different things and see how I reacted.  One dance class followed by a horrid headache and four days of ramped-up symptoms was enough to make me learn my limits.  Now I do things like 2-3 mins of yoga scattered through the day, and it's just enough to feel good without getting over-done. 

 

Actually, exercise is one area that I initially found frustrating but which I now enjoy because it really got me practiced at listening to my body.

 

Napping is all good I think.  Makes sense to be listening in to your body and giving it the rest it needs.  I often consider my w/d self to have similar needs to a baby, and babies need lots of naps in order to develop their brain. 

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Pretzle

I exercised today :D 

 

I'm more ok now with taking it a bit easier, so during exercise I'll just go slower if it's really difficult. I don't feel like I have to force myself to do as much as I did before. 

 

Spaced-out feeling is back today, but slightly less than earlier this week. Keep on improving, body...

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LostInTheWoods

Exercise is weird for me. I had been playing squash once a week and quite intensely, returning home with my shirt drenched in sweat and feeling nothing but the usual tiredness of legs the next day. Sadly, my partner got a back ache and called it quits. On the other hand, working out with weights hasn't been the same after paroxetine: cramps come much easier. So I'm taking some walks or doing cardio these days.

 

In terms of sleep, I come from the other side, with a medicine that tends to reduce take sleep away instead of increasing it. Right now I am on a sweet spot, sleeping 6-7 hours at night and taking 30-45 min naps. Or at least I was, because this last two days I have been waking up from my naps feeling unusually groggy for two or three hours, which is quite bothersome and I don't want to fell into the caffeine temptation. I remember this grogginess after naps being mentioned in the other late forum. Does anyone knows a theory about why this happens?

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KarenB

The theory I remember hearing over the years was that a nap longer than 20 mins can leave you groggy cause you get into a much deeper sleep.  Might be true...

Edited by KarenB
Merged similar topics.

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Pretzle

If you have time for longer naps you might want to try a full sleep-cycle (about 90 minutes). If I have plenty of time I just don't set my alarm and get up when I first wake up (during the day I always wake up after a full sleep cycle, so no real problems there, the most I'll be in bed is just under 2 hours). 

 

I love napping  :) I've noticed that at the moment a nap will 'reset' my symptoms for the day (first few hours after waking I don't feel spaced out at all, then it'll become noticeable, so napping then gives me another hour or two without the spacy feeling).

 

I exercised this morning (stretching/relaxing video and then a 5 minute intense workout). It was pretty nice. I am feeling pretty woozy/spacy now, but that might just be because I've been awake for a while now. 

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Faithgrl

I like what a previous person said - just start on it, take it easy and don't push.

 

I do 30-40mins of yoga/pilates daily(ish)....or an hour of gentle bush walking.

 

Was doing squash x3 a week for an hour before I started tapering and was really reluctant to go again cause I feel sore/tired, but gave it a go anyway.

 

Last about 30mins and didn't push and I feel ok, and played better cause I can see the ball now (had pretty poor vision with the AD).

 

So I think I will try 30-40mins of yoga/pilates daily(ish)....or an hour of gentle bush walking, and 30-45 mins of squash x3 a week, and if I don't feel like it I will just start on it and see how I go.

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rapunzel2

I hate, hate, hate that my body is taken away!! I've been mentally ill for long time but I used to excersize a lot, all the time. that's even how I coped with my depression. but now I haven't been able to exercise for almost 3 years, and it just makes me angry and sad. I really miss my toned and fit body and sports. all I can do now is walk, very gentle yin yoga or very gentle swimming. 

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Faithgrl

Sorry to hear that Rapunzel. Can you do some easy pilates - for me it doesn't take me much to tone up and in any case (so it is said) 80% of our body is food. Is your food ok?

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Mort81

I wonder why we all get affected so differently in WD. I mean physically some people can do alot while others are greatly limited and close to bed ridden. It all goes away at some point but I just find it weird. No correlation between a CT or fast taper and a slow taper, even dosage and the number of meds. I don't see any patterns

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Mort81

Rapunzel I am alot like you. I cant do anything more than a moderate walk. I used to play hockey and workout 4-6 x a week. It feels like my adrenals are blown out or like I have a terrible body flu. At some point it will lift. Ive read people saying fatigue lasted 3 yrs than started to go away.

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btdt

Rapunzel I am alot like you. I cant do anything more than a moderate walk. I used to play hockey and workout 4-6 x a week. It feels like my adrenals are blown out or like I have a terrible body flu. At some point it will lift. Ive read people saying fatigue lasted 3 yrs than started to go away.

read the last post here

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1508-antidepressantsfactscom/

I felt that Charles helped me understand and recover... this is from his site which he no longer attends to from what I can see... still a lot of good pointers. 

 

I am hit and miss for a long long time I could not manage even a walk... don't be too hard on yourself even tho it seems impossible it really is wd... it took me a long time to believe it too... I thought I had a disease but it was wd. 

 

peace Mort

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rapunzel2

thank you all! I just needed to vent, miss my body a lot...

 

Faithgirl - yes my food is ok - gluten-free-casein-free and healthy in most aspects (could cut down with sugar lately though). 

 

I also have too high workload so even for walking I don't often have time and energy. I hope the situation will change from this summer, I might get an easier job. then I will at least do easier excersise regularly. and I could afford feeling worse after doing some sports... in this way I could do more trial and error, about where my limits are. 

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Rockingchaircat

What's worked for me- exercise, even if it's as small as going for a walk outside for 10 minutes.  That tends to help me sleep better. This, and a light box- has worked wonders for me.

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btdt

thank you all! I just needed to vent, miss my body a lot...

 

Faithgirl - yes my food is ok - gluten-free-casein-free and healthy in most aspects (could cut down with sugar lately though). 

 

I also have too high workload so even for walking I don't often have time and energy. I hope the situation will change from this summer, I might get an easier job. then I will at least do easier excersise regularly. and I could afford feeling worse after doing some sports... in this way I could do more trial and error, about where my limits are. 

Please be nice to yourself... and your body I do get it but have learned one neg thing leads to the next this I think is partly a wd issue too all the negativity.  So thought I would just chime in here to say your body is wonderful and it is working extremely hard to over come this trial please be kind to you.  The fact that you can work while going thru this is enough for me to stand and applaud.  Withdrawal is a shifting thing and changes all the time in my experience so figuring out your limits may help for a time but they will change.. or at least that is my experience in wd... 

 

What I have learned go when the getting is good and while I do miss my old body I have learned to admire and respect my new one for all it has over come... like a veteran with scars I am continually in awe of how much it has...managed to survive and still goes... maybe not perfectly but it goes.. that impresses me. 

I wish you peace

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downtongirl

What's worked for me- exercise, even if it's as small as going for a walk outside for 10 minutes.  That tends to help me sleep better. This, and a light box- has worked wonders for me.

 

May I ask what you use the light box for?  Thanks

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oskcajga

I notice that when I get less than 6-8 hours of sleep, I feel AWFUL - my nerves hurt, and just feel much much less intelligent and less pleasurable.

 

I also notice when I get like 11-12+ hours of sleep, I also feel "off" by not even close to as bad as when I don't get enough sleep.  I think the whole "don't get too much sleep" advice is very strongly over hyped - and the positive benefits of sleep FAR OUTWEIGH the negative ones - especially for those of us damaged by psych meds.  We need that extra sleep to heal!

 

I definitely noticed that my recovery accelerated exponentially once I was able to get 12+ hours of sleep for a while.  I actually forced myself to get that much sleep knowing that sleep is when the body heals itself from various forms of damage - including nerve damage.  Based on this theory, I found that this forced sleep really did improve my recovery dramatically - but that as a rule, I tend to feel better at this point in my recovery with something like 8-10 hours of quality sleep.

 

It took a while to actually attain sleep, probably like a good 6 months after my worst period before I was able to get a reliable 8+ hours of sleep each night.  It was bad sleep, and it took me a while to get to sleep at night, but once I was in deep sleep I tended to stay there for a while.

 

Sleep and dreams became - and have been since - sometimes my one area of solace in an otherwise miserable consciousness.  I look forward to my sleep now - and honestly find it to be the most precious aspect of my entire existence.

 

Without enough sleep and a forced sleep cycle my condition deteriorated dramatically.  I would encourage anyone here to get as much sleep as their body wants them to get.  I find that I tend to feel worse if I don't listen to my body and get either too much or too little sleep.

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Mort81

Osk that is a good point. I have noticed during WD that sleep was hard. But lately I've noticed better and longer sleep. I won't get up until I feel rested no matter what time it is. I feel like its helping alot. I used to get woken up with massive surges of cortisol but lately none of that. Hopefully this continued sleep helps me get stronger. I am alot like you as in it takes me awhile to fall asleep sometimes early into the morning but when I do sleep I tend to stay there for a good 7-10hrs now. During the first 14 months or so this wasn't the case. I was constantly interrupted by symptoms.

 

My body was begging for rest when this all started but for 6 months I pushed myself very hard to work through immense pain in my stomach . I got no sleep and eventually I crashed.But I cant blame myself because I didn't know what wad going on. Glad to know you got back to work. Thats a big step to recovery. Being strong enough to follow a schedule and do a job is a big deal.

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Junglechicken

I hate, hate, hate that my body is taken away!! I've been mentally ill for long time but I used to excersize a lot, all the time. that's even how I coped with my depression. but now I haven't been able to exercise for almost 3 years, and it just makes me angry and sad. I really miss my toned and fit body and sports. all I can do now is walk, very gentle yin yoga or very gentle swimming. 

Totally empthasize with you rapunzel2.

 

I was not only a marathoner but very good at all sports - love to be active (keeps me feeling "alive").  This WD situation has been a nightmare and as a result I have had to see things very differently and adapt to doing things differently as well.

 

There are many active people on this forum and I read with interest how they are all coping with such a huge lifestyle change which it is.

 

Our minds are willing but our flesh is now weak - for me it is like being a geriatric (having to treat my body this carefully).

 

Although like others, I have had to adapt to doing things differently in order to accommodate the side effects of too much activity.

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Cressida

Just wanted to note about exercise:Exercise can increase the release of cortisol, the stress and alerting hormone. Exertion may well make you feel lousy.Walking is the form of exercise that least causes increases in cortisol. But if you do it strenuously and in the evening, you may well wake yourself up with some alerting hormone.So don't overdo it, especially in the evening.

This is so true . Feeling somewhat better have been increasing exercise/activity and had been walking on the treadmill at 4 mph and got up to 40 mins in the afternoon. Yesterday I was doing things during the day so went on treadmill for 45 mins at 730pm . Felt ok afterwards. My reward came at 440am in the form of being woken by faster heartbeat, anxious, and widespread burning over my body that lasted over an hour. ( I used to get this every night 3 times. )

Recovering from a normal illness you can follow some kind of graded exercise program and progress in a linear fashion. Not so with WD.

Apparently cortisol peaks at 40 mins of exercise so going to limit walking to 40 mins for now and make it earlier in the day. And not every day. But as through the whole process it would be so helpful to have a map !

I have noticed that exercise /cortisol symptoms are a faster heartbeat , panic/anxiety, and burning.

Histamine symptoms are pounding palpitations, BP surges at same time with feeling pulse pounding to fingers and toes and head. Also at night.

Three and a half years off its frustrating to put it mildly. Does anyone know the best way forward ?

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