hardy86: Severe fatigue 24/7 Mirtazapine hell

[hardy86]

11 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi hardy86,

 

I'm sorry to hear it is going so tough.

What are you taking now?

Just note the time on the left, and then the drug, by name, and dose.

If you can, try to note your symptoms as well, before and after each drug.

 

8 days on the Amitryptiline/Endep?  How much, or what was the dose?  And how did you stop it?

Do you have any left?

When did you cut the Ativan down?  And then when did you go back up on it?

I'm not sure what went wrong.  Might be WD from the Amitryptiline.......even though, it was only 8 days on it.  Might also be WD from the Ativan kicked in too, with a 0.5 mg taper, that's a 25% taper.

 

Here's you present signature too:

 

Currently suffer extreme CFS basically home a lot. Can hardly walk all I get out off breath feel unwell that’s a mystery I don’t know why thyroid gone worst Not sure? I do have hypothyroid for a while already. I have discovered so many health issues that need to be addressed. I’m on currently on Mirtizipine 1.8 mg and Reboxetine 0.6mg. I did a cut on reboxetine on the 4/3/18 from 0.8mg to 0.6mg. Not sure my severe symptoms are med related. Constant hypo mode 24/7 like body in 5th gear, insomnia,  pressure feeling on my heart, feelings on my thyroid. Weakness tremor shaky down abit now. Lost 1.5kg being constant revved up mode in few days. 

 

If you'd like to update now, that would be great.  AccountSettings/signature and then just be sure and hit the SAVE button when done.

 

Welcome back and so sorry, hardy.  I'm going to ask the other mods to take a look too.  Hang in there now, please,  ((((((hardy86))))

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 @hardy86

 

[hardy86]

Hi manymoretodays and altostrata and shep. 

 Sorry late reply my computer skills are bad bad. 
altostrata I stopped tapering reboxetine and mirtizapine for the last 1.5 years cause I was starting to have why to much health issues and didn’t wanna feel more worst. Tried tackling Lyme disease etc. I mean Ativan not fully like only 15% since adding endep. I feel severe panic 24/7 and take the 2mg about from 11am to 1230pm. 
 

I think severe panic been going for the last 5 weeks. yeah feel worst morning then better after taking Ativan. 

 

Manymoredays I think you nailed it with some severe reaction of mixing antidepressants together or something along the lines. Cause I started endep on the 24/3/20 and started having more bad anxiety on the 30/3/20.

and the worst day I had was the night stopping endep the next day I wanted to die from anxiety being 10 times worst. 

Guys I lost all my life already with Lyme etc. then now only added Ativan cause a strong herb hurt my gut and created worst urge to vomit feeling. 
 

I don’t know what to do with all these medications currently 

. Reboxetine    0.5mg 

. mirtizapine    1.7mg 

.ativan               2mg 

 

like I stated above already lost all my life having Lyme, CFS, etc, and all this causes bad depression anxiety. I was ok on the 2 Low doses antidepressants in not causing me more bad mental illness. More or less now not sure to trail another few antidepressants and somehow wanna get off Ativan faster if the antidepressant works. Been on Ativan 3 months. I’m in a big mess. I just have a beautiful young family and need to somehow live to battle all the health issues. And I know putting antidepressants can make things worst just like endep did to me. 
 

I know this is very complicated.

 

Thanks so much from my heart Hardy 

 

 

[Shep]

4 hours ago, hardy86 said:

More or less now not sure to trail another few antidepressants and somehow wanna get off Ativan faster if the antidepressant works.

 

Hardy, please see my post here - https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/10737-hardy86-severe-fatigue-247-mirtazapine-hell/page/10/?tab=comments#comment-481108

 

By "if the antidepressant works," are you referring to the chemical imbalance theory? Please note this has been debunked (and it never was proven to begin with):

 

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

 

Please let us know if you're here to come off psychiatric drugs or if you're going to put together a new drug cocktail and continue taking psych drugs. 

[hardy86]

Hi shep 

 

Thanks so so much again. No I never believe that brain chemical imbalance thing that’s lies for sure. 
I’m just in a really tough situation not knowing exactly what to do me battling Lyme etc will continue to have bad depression. 
But now since adding Ativan I’m in a real mess. 
I was hoping to trial a few more antidepressants to somehow help me and to try and stop this Ativan quicker if I found antidepressant to help depression and anxiety. And of course will have depression not treating Lyme. But gone much worst now stuck on this Ativan. 
You said there was a supportive group for those wanting to try more drugs. Yes I know the risk as endep back fired severely. 
jiat wanna live for my family have young babies and don’t wanna go yet. 

[Altostrata]

11 hours ago, hardy86 said:

I feel severe panic 24/7 and take the 2mg about from 11am to 1230pm. 
 

I think severe panic been going for the last 5 weeks. yeah feel worst morning then better after taking Ativan.

 

11 hours ago, hardy86 said:

Been on Ativan 3 months.

 

3 hours ago, hardy86 said:

But gone much worst now stuck on this Ativan. 

 

If you're taking Ativan every day between 11 a.m. to 12:30 p.m., and you feel better for a while after taking Ativan, you probably have rebound anxiety when the Ativan wears off.

 

It may have gone like this: You went on Ativan about 12 weeks ago. You've had this pattern for 5 weeks. This means about 7 weeks ago, your system got used to taking Ativan, it became dependent on it, and now it's complaining when it doesn't have enough Ativan.

 

As long as you take Ativan once a day, you will have rebound anxiety from Ativan. If you stop taking Ativan, it's possible you will have withdrawal symptoms from that. Please let us know if we can help you taper Ativan.

 

As this is a site for going off drugs, we cannot advise on new drugs you might take for your symptoms. If you decide to add drugs, dealing with adverse effects will be between you and your doctor. This may complicate going off Ativan.

 

Sites for people who feel they need psychiatric drug treatment: patientslikeme.com and depressionforums.org

[Shep]

Hardy, please note that adding in other drugs, including antidepressants, isn't going to fix withdrawal or Ativan rebound or paradoxical symptoms. 

 

Once your nervous system is destabilized, you're likely going to hyper-react to any new drug. That's why we don't recommend adding in new drugs. 

[hardy86]

Hi shep, altostrata 

 

Sorry for the late reply been very sick guys. So shep what about not reducing Ativan for now and trialling few more new drugs to cope with depression and anxiety and try to get stable first? Then later start the reduction of Ativan? 
Lyme etc and all my other bad health is causing depression. 
 

And when the time comes to withdrawal are supplements like Gaba and L-theanine ok to help cope? 
 

kind regard

hardy 

[Shep]

6 hours ago, hardy86 said:

Sorry for the late reply been very sick guys. So shep what about not reducing Ativan for now and trialling few more new drugs to cope with depression and anxiety and try to get stable first? 

 

Please work with your doctor, Hardy. We don't advocate adding in drugs to help with withdrawal. 

 

You may want to join patientslikeme.com and depressionforums.org, as these groups advocate using psych drugs. 

 

[hardy86]

Hi shep 

 

i will talk with my family what to do next. Shep if I decide not to take more drugs can GABA and L-theanine be used during tapering? Have you seen people use these supplements with some success? Of course I will caution this when trying. 
 

 

Thanks 

[Shep]

I would be very cautious with GABA and L-theanine. You can use the search feature to find more information about them. We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

 King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

[Malon]

Hey hardy,

Fatique is also a big issue for me. I feel the same as you when I wake up in the morning. I feel more tired than in the evening before and a lot of fatique. It is so hard to get up. Although my sleep is good.  Some days are better, some are harder. I have a lot of ups and downs during the day but mornings are the worst. This fatique makes me very depressed as well. I too have anxiety and panic attacks. So I can see we have a lot of common regarding symptoms.

In the last months I regained a bit energy and I have more days with less fatique. However on some days I still have this extreme fatique coming from nowhere. Its horror. Its very hard it to live with this extreme chronic fatique. Nobody can understand it.
I also got some relief on anxiety. Still windows and waves.

Meditation helps me a bit with fatique if it is a day where the fatique is not that extreme.

I tried Coffeein, Ashwaghanda, L-theanine, Ginseng, Q10, B Vitamins and many more. Nothing really helped or it gave me side effects. Some gave me a short boost but later or especially the next day I get even more fatique.
L-theanine helped for me a bit with fatique but gave me a lot of anxiety. Q10 helped for a week, then effect stopped. Too much sport, taking a hot bath or drinking alcohol give me a lot of fatique the next day. Can you realate?

Hope with time further improvements will come for us. For myself I decided not to take ever again any of this drugs. So the body can heal long term. Its very risky.

[hardy86]

Thanks a lot shep and malon.

 

Sorry late reply been so unwell. 
Shep just a question I’m on about 0.4mg of reboxetine do we still keep cutting 5-10% when you get this low? 

I feel the cuts badly even at 10%? 
Seems hell and harder at lower doses when reducing for both antidepressants? 
Thanks 

[Shep]

20 hours ago, hardy86 said:

Shep just a question I’m on about 0.4mg of reboxetine do we still keep cutting 5-10% when you get this low? 

I feel the cuts badly even at 10%? 

 

You may want to do a micro-taper of 1 - 3% per month. There's no reason to rush this.

 

And you can hold for as long as you need to. Many people do find the lower doses to be more difficult to taper, so you may want to either hold or taper less than 5% per month. 

 

20 hours ago, hardy86 said:

Seems hell and harder at lower doses when reducing for both antidepressants? 

 

Are you reducing two drugs at the same time? 

[hardy86]

Hi shep 

 

I wanna share my post that i sent to my friend.

sorry easier copy and paste as I’m struggling to type to much.  
 

 

 

 

I lost 90% of my life before Ativan I have Lyme, CFS, you name it I have it. Been on Ativan 2mg for about 3.5months 

I started my cut of Ativan 2mg 3rd day only about 10% but I’m also on 2 low doses of other antidepressants reboxetine 0.4mg and mirtizapine 1.7mg that I haven’t reduced in about 1.5 years.
I thought I cut one of the antidepressants Reboxetine about 11% same time as the Ativan 10%. Thought I could get away with this as Ativan might cover it.

Last 2 and 3rd by night time severe depression hits me and feel just wanna give up crying truly hell. And I only took Ativan believe it or not just cause I had the worst urge to vomit feeling after taking herbs that hurt my gut. 

 

 

 

Thanks shep 

[Shep]

17 hours ago, hardy86 said:

I started my cut of Ativan 2mg 3rd day only about 10%

 

Please add the Ativan to your signature. A direct link is here:

 

Account Settings - Create or Update Your Signature

 

17 hours ago, hardy86 said:

I thought I cut one of the antidepressants Reboxetine about 11% same time as the Ativan 10%. Thought I could get away with this as Ativan might cover it.

 

We recommend only reducing one drug at a time and generally, the benzo is the last drug we recommend tapering. Please see:

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

What time(s) of the day are you taking each of your drugs? 

[hardy86]

Thanks so much shep. Appreciate this. 
From your experience like for example I’m on reboxetine 0.4mg from history what do people normally do here taper all the way to 0mg. Or jump at such a low dose? all taper all the way? 
 

[hardy86]

4 hours ago, hardy86 said:
 

Hi shep 

 

I’m looking at my diary and I have been on gaba 400mg and L-theanine for 9 days it has really worked for my anxiety. I take my 2mg dose of Ativan about 1130am by 7pm Ativan has died down. So last 9 days been taking gaba around 7pm cause my anxiety starts again no doubt from Ativan even though helps anxiety seems it’s causing anxiety same time 24/7. 
 

I’m very suspicious now that gaba is same time making my depression 10 times worst. I’m going to stop ASAP. Shep I didn’t wanna take more Ativan pass 2mg to cause more issues but what else could cover anxiety that might be worth a try? Some have suggested cbd? 
 

So my plan is taper of reboxetine 0.4mg and then possibly mirtizipine after that 1.7mg and benzo last? 
I’m really concerned to take more Ativan shep for the anxiety that hits around 7pm. 

 

Thank shep 
 

[Shep]

22 hours ago, hardy86 said:

I take my 2mg dose of Ativan about 1130am by 7pm Ativan has died down. So last 9 days been taking gaba around 7pm cause my anxiety starts again no doubt from Ativan even though helps anxiety seems it’s causing anxiety same time 24/7. 

 

Hardy, it looks like you're getting interdose withdrawal from the Ativan. This means you're going into withdrawal around 7 pm due to Ativan's short half life. Taking a Gaba supplement is not recommended. You would be better off splitting your Ativan into multiple doses and taking it throughout the day.

 

22 hours ago, hardy86 said:

I’m very suspicious now that gaba is same time making my depression 10 times worst. I’m going to stop ASAP.

 

Yes, this sounds like a good plan. You've only been on it 9 days, so either stopping cold turkey or doing a rapid taper over several days would be best before you become dependent on this supplement. 

 

22 hours ago, hardy86 said:

Shep I didn’t wanna take more Ativan pass 2mg to cause more issues but what else could cover anxiety that might be worth a try? Some have suggested cbd? 

 

Please don't add in CBD right now. You're making too many changes as it is. 

 

I would not take more Ativan. 2 mg is a high dose already. Keep in mind that 2 mg of Ativan is equivalent of 20 mg of Valium, so it's a relatively potent drug. (see - benzo equivalency chart).

 

How long have you been on Ativan? Again, please update your signature. I can't give you any more information on your taper without knowing how long you've been on your drugs. A direct link to your signature is here:

 

 

Account Settings - Create or Update Your Signature

 

 

[hardy86]

Hi shep 

 

Thanks kindly for you reply again I have updated my signature post. 
 

Shep I remember not long ago I tried to split the 2mg pills I took 1mg morning and didn’t cover the anxiety within short time I think 1-2 hours body seems like it needed the full 2mg? I will try again tomorrow to split the pills and see what happens. Not sure 1.5mg at 1130am might work, but then take .50mg around 6pm might have no effect? 
 

Just wanna share something i wrote earlier. 
 

 This might sound crazy Ativan is causing me anxiety 24/7 but at the same time when I take it the anxiety symptoms ease. So it’s like the pill is causing me issues anxiety but when take it eases the symptoms it’s causing. If that makes sense. 

So I wake up 1130am take 2mg last till 6pm roughly and then anxiety back bad again. Never had anxiety till Ativan. And I only took Ativan for nausea. 
 

So my point is Ativan seems to be causing me the most issues, i say this because the other 2 low doses of antidepressants I was just bearable and could get by before Ativan. 

Have you heard this happen what I’m mentioning about Ativan?

 

I was thinking to cut the rest of reboxetine and using Ativan to assist while I’m still on it. 
 

But like I stated above Ativan is my main issues causing me bad anxiety 24/7, but yeah take 2mg 1130am last till about 6pm. Then bad anxiety kicks off again? I’m going to try again to split the pills of 2mg like you said. But didn’t have luck last time doing this? And yeah I don’t wanna go to 3mg Ativan as I got extreme fatigue so badly pretty sure was the higher dose and that just made me more severely depressed. Can’t win I wish I my body can do 1mg split dose then it will work out so I don’t suffer from 6pm. 
 

Please share you ideas 

 

thanks shep 

[hardy86]

Hi shep 

 

I thought I try what you suggested dose spilt the 2mg tablet and dose 1mg 2 times. Just gave it ago today after my first dose 1mg Ativan did nothing and 1 hour later was still in panic mode so took my 2nd 1mg tablet 1hour 15min later. 
arrrrggggg thought this would be perfect if it worked. 
Now I don’t know what to take At 6pm for the bad panic when anxiety goes bad again? 
 

going to try some stramonium 30c as a member here report good results. I don’t know what else I can do? Don’t wanna take more Ativan. 
 

thanks shep 

[Shep]

22 hours ago, hardy86 said:

Shep I remember not long ago I tried to split the 2mg pills I took 1mg morning and didn’t cover the anxiety within short time I think 1-2 hours body seems like it needed the full 2mg? I will try again tomorrow to split the pills and see what happens. Not sure 1.5mg at 1130am might work, but then take .50mg around 6pm might have no effect? 

 

When splitting your doses, it's best to do so gradually, moving the dose one hour a day.

 

So you could take part of your dose at 11:30 AM and the rest at 12:30 PM one day. And then part of the dose at 11:30 AM and 1:30 PM the next day. And so forth until it's spread out to where you want. This gradual move is gentlest on your nervous system.

 

6 hours ago, hardy86 said:

going to try some stramonium 30c as a member here report good results.

 

Please don't add in anything while you are moving the Ativan. If you have problems, you won't know if it's the Ativan change or the supplement. 

 

6 hours ago, hardy86 said:

I don’t know what else I can do?

 

Try some breathing exercises and guided meditations. 

 

This is a short video that can help when you feel overwhelmed and you just need to stop everything and breathe. 

 

The Breathing Space by Jon Kabat Zinn video (4 minutes)

 

And a great video to listen to at bedtime to stop intrusive thoughts:

 

Guided Meditation Deep sleep | anxiety and insomnia relief | relaxation before bedtime video (21 minutes)

 

If these don't speak to you, there are many more on YouTube to explore. 

 

Claire Weekes also is also great for handling anxiety without drugs:

 

How To Recover From Anxiety - Dr. Claire Weekes

 

She also has some good videos over on YouTube. 

[hardy86]

Hi shep

 

Thanks again. Shep I was going to reduce the rest of reboxetine first. But if Ativan is the one causing me hell anxiety 24/7 I assume it’s wise to get off this first?

 

 

[Shep]

You may be getting rebound or interdose withdrawal from the Ativan, so slowly spacing it out may help with this. I've given all the advice I can from what you've posted. If you wish to get more feedback, please start a daily drug and symptoms journal. 

 

Please also include any supplements you're taking and how much sleep you get each night. 

 

Please see the information highlighted in blue for the format. 

 

On 9/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

In the course of discussion in your Introductions forum topic, you may be asked to keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms. We ask this because there may be something we can do to reduce the symptoms.

 

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs and have withdrawal symptoms, we still need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day:

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

 

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 

Example:

DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep