hardy86: Severe fatigue 24/7 Mirtazapine hell

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi Hardy, 

 

I think "good" is ambiguous when it comes to psych meds.  I think what happened to me when I took that Prozac all those years ago was that MAYBE I felt a little better in that I felt like I was getting help, doing something that was supposed to help.  I do know that I switched to Wellbutrin because of the sexual side affects and feeling that I wasn't really all that better.  I don't remember that being all that great either.  My memory of what happened when is foggy.  I got put on Effexor when I went to the doctor after having walking pneumonia and laryngitis for a month, and that doctor said "you are depressed."  I said, sure I am - I'm depressed about being sick for so long!  And he said, "no, I mean generally depressed - you are a depressed person and should see a psychiatrist."  So off I went obediently, and I was put on Effexor which I stayed on for 12 years!  And during that time I had bouts of situational depression and anxiety for sure, so NO, I would not say that I felt "better" while on the drugs!  I just kept taking them though, because I had a brain imbalance and needed them the way a diabetic needs insulin, right?!!!!  Grrrrr!

 

I do think that CBT is the way out of the negative, dysfunctional thinking that led me to depression as a solution.  And yes, depression is a coping mechanism, albeit not a good one!

 

I feel better now on 17 mg mirt and 29 mg venlafaxine (Effexor) than I did on 37.5 mg mirt and 37.5 mg ven.  I ended up on mirt when I couldn't sleep and was in protracted withdrawal from Effexor but didn't know it.  When the mirt failed to do anything other than help me sleep at 37.5 mg, I was reinstated on 37.5 mg ven and within one hour of that first dose I was dramatically better!  Sure sign of dependence!  I was lucky that reinstatement worked after being off for 10 months!

 

I am now finally dealing with the negativity and poor self-esteem issues that have plagued my life since I was 13, off and on psych meds.  I am doing a program called Emotional Brain Training, and I'd say it is a CBT method.  I was in protracted WD when I started the program and my brain was more resistant to the skills than it is now.  I think it really helped to realize that all the horror I had been experiencing was WD and not "me." 

 

SG

[ChessieCat]

Hi Hardy,

 

CBT doesn't get rid of withdrawal symptoms, but it definitely helps me to cope.  Also learning about what is happening in my brain/body means I understand what is going on and means I don't feel scared by it.

 

I found this today from the getselfhelp.co.uk website:  CBT Self Help Course and also this First Aid for Panic but I think it's a great thing to listen to even if you aren't feeling panicky.

 

CC

[hardy86]

Hi squirrellygirl, chessiecat

 

I think you suggestion sounds good and i will try cbt again. Sis use ever suffer 24/7 fatigue ever it's so depressing and makes it all worst can't do hardly much as you are so tired. I hope this passes soon it's killing me. So energy even to exercise now like I have been 20 months which help dramatically.

 

Thanks

[ChessieCat]

CBT doesn't change the feelings.  But it does teach you to change the way you think when you have the bad feelings.  I find it helps me to be less anxious and more accepting of what I am going through which I believe allows my brain/body to heal rather than it having to be busy dealing with the stress and anxiety/negativity.

 

CC

[hardy86]

Thanks chessiecat for your great support. Hope your feeling well.

 

Thanks

[hardy86]

Hi all

Been over 3 months and haven't settle settle just a little bit. Got Mirtazapine compounded to 5.5mg.

 

LOST MY BROTHER IN-LAW the worst time possible when I haven't even settle this will not help my cause at all. I was thinking of going to talk with a phcychologist, any idea guys? Now I don't know if I ever going to settle like this. Awful

 

Sad times

 

Thanks

[SquirrellyGirl]

Aw Hardy, I am so sorry for your loss.  Very sad, indeed.  So, the anxiety, depression, crying and despondency are all still bad, I guess?

 

I'm glad you got the 5.5 mg mirt compounded.  Did you get a chance to try some CBT?  I found a self-help link here:  http://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/cbtstep1.htm

 

I'm sure as with everything in the psych field, there are many versions of CBT, but perhaps surfing the web for CBT exercises is one way to distract yourself :-)

 

When you are having the depression and anxiety, what kinds of thoughts are you having?  I think being aware of those thoughts and being aware that you are having them is really important.  If you can catch yourself starting to have the thoughts, you can say to yourself "ah-ha, there I go again, having those thoughts!  I don't have to have them!  I can stop them!  They are doing me no good!" would be very helpful.  At first you will fail to catch yourself, and that is ok - it doesn't mean that you won't eventually be able to catch yourself.  The key is that you at some point catch it happening, and make a decision that you don't want to have those thoughts and you don't NEED to have them either!

 

I asked someone today about the anger they were having while reducing sertraline.  He was saying that he kept having anger.  I asked him if there were thoughts associated with the anger, and at first he responded that it was just happening, but then he came back and said yes, there were thoughts before the anger.  Sometimes we just aren't aware.  If there are thoughts that precipitate the feelings, then we can catch ourselves starting to have the thoughts, and interrupt them with some conscious meditative breathing, simply bringing awareness to the feeling of the stomach expanding and contracting.

 

I hope that helps.  It's so easy to get caught up in distress about the anxiety and depression.  Now, when I feel a wave of anxiety due to WD, I think "oops, that's just withdrawal - I'm ok and don't have to let it upset me."

 

I hope this helps.  Allow yourself to grieve, but also nurture yourself and coddle yourself through - be kind to yourself and give some love to your sis, too.

 

Hugs!

SG

[hardy86]

Hi squirrellygirl

 

You a so kind and helpful. My thoughts in my head is why I'm feeling like this, I'm never going to be normal again, why me. And just want my normal like back without all the suffering. Don't wanna do nothing a lot of time feeling like this.

 

Thanks

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hey Hardy, believe me, I went through that for awhile, too.  It's like the four stages of grieving:  Denial, depression, anger, and acceptance.  Well, I don't know that any of us are went through denial about withdrawal and what we were experiencing, LOL!  But I think perhaps you are at the depression stage, the why me and I'll never be normal stage.  Now you have to get angry!  I got angry:  I've wasted so much of my life being on these danged drugs!!!  I'm so angry that I ever got on them!!  I hate that I'm having to go through this!! I hate that it's taking so long!  I hate that I'm in this situation!

 

It might help to write this all out.  Really get mad and write out all the ways you are angry about this withdrawal business and how you are feeling.   If you are alone, literally holler it out loud, cuss and spit and jump up and down, no joke!  You have to really FEEL it in order to move it out. Heck, if you have a loving partner who will be witness to your anger tantrum, even better!  Hopefully, you will then be ready to move to acceptance.  I was able to get there but believe me, I went through the woe is me stage for sure.

 

So, when you catch yourself with the thoughts of despair about being in this situation, try moving to anger instead, so that you can really beat that horse and get it out of your system.  If was always very repressed about expressing anger, wasn't really allowed to as a child, so it took some practice to really let it fly, but dang is it cathartic!

 

And the acceptance is hard, but I finally got there.  It may help for me that I was able to stabilize, but give this a try anyway.  And again, when you feel horrible or have a WD symptom crop up, remind yourself "aw, yes, that's wd" and then go do something to take care of yourself, be good to yourself.

 

SG

[hardy86]

Hi squirrellygirl

 

I haven't settle for the last 3 months and 12 days I ask myself is this normal can it last this long. Is it medicine related or I really have true depression. I mean anyone would get depression if they feel bad. I guess it eased a little but this interferes with my daily life. This passing of course will not help. I really worried this will never settle and how long I should wait and if course the pain depression causes. But positive thing is I have been settle feeling I guess ok before which is a while back now, this February is 2 years of having lots of pain I guess maybe 3 ok months in that time. That's why I have so many question on where to go from here. Thank you for your suggestions.

 

Thanks

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hardy, I don't think anyone can tell you how much longer, since it is very individual, but I will tell you of my friend who is in WD from Lexapro, and who told me about SA.  When I met her, she was in such a bad place, like you, and every day we spoke on the phone.  She was in such fear and despair, when would it end?  She was weary, as you are.  I think it was at least two solid weeks that we spoke daily, with her running through a "fear cycle," where she would express her anger, sadness, fear and guilt.  Her ureasonable expectation was always something like "healing shouldn't take this long" and a reasonable was "I can take one day at a time as my body heals."  She would grind that in , repeating it 50 times if necessary.  I don't know if doing the cycles was what made the difference, but things began to shift for her and the despair became less.  Maybe it was that she finally was peacefully accepting that it was what it was.  Anyway, it was a month or so later that she went into a month long window where she felt great, no fear, no despair!  The window did close, but the wave was much less intense, and she came back into a window again.  

 

So, I think you have been in a deep wave for quite some time, but it is inevitable that your nervous system is healing and will bring you to a window.  I really don't think this is your original depression.  Withdrawal tricks us, though; when you are in it you can't tell the difference.

 

Like I said, I was there this spring, worrying that it would never end, like you. 

 

SG

[hardy86]

Hi squirrellygirl

 

I will hang in here and do my best. Thanks for giving me such great advice which I can learn from. Well sounds like your doing well I'm glad to hear. Keep it up. Your take any supplements, I

Been using melatonin last 2 weeks I cut slow release melatonin 2 mg in half so I take 1 mg seems to help my sleep a lot. I heard you can't take it to long and it might cause depression not sure about these facts. I stop last night to see how I go maybe not the best sleep.

 

Thanks

[SquirrellyGirl]

My thoughts are with you, hardy!

 

Thankfully I never lost my sleep (yet), but I am only down to 16 mg and I worry that some day the dreaded insomnia will come calling.  I have had restless nights, nights where I woke up but was able to get back to sleep after a few rounds of 'tapping.'  I take 400 mg of magnesium glycinate morning and bedtime, as well as 1 g of high DHA fish oil twice a day.  This past week, I remembered I had the inositol powder and so went to adding 12 g or so to a hot beverage at bedtime.  This week I actually felt really up, wondered if I wasn't almost manic but in a good way, so thinking the inositol might be contributing to that.  Yesterday, I forgot to take it and felt a little more irritable.  Took some earlier today and will take more at bedtime.  I also like to heat up some milk to wash it all down at bedtime.

 

I did take some Benedryl on a few nights when the restlessness came up, and I think it helped, didn't hurt.  I know some have a paradoxical reaction.  Another one I have taken is cipro for an infection, and I know that one is contraindicated for folks in WD.  Thankfully, I got away unscathed on that one!

 

I'm glad the melatonin is helping you.  If it isn't causing a paradoxical reaction and it is helping, I can see doing it to get some rest.   Hard to heal when you can't sleep!

 

SG

[hardy86]

Hi squirrellygirl

 

I assume you are taking Mirtazapine as well? The point with me is that the drug never never worked for me only the first 2 months then all went to hell. And the thing is it's weird that I would have to be on roboxetine 2 for a while taking 8 mg and that doesn't really work to but what I understand I must taper of 1 first then the next. So I'm taking this drug assume another year that doesn't work just sounds weird. Thanks a lot

[SquirrellyGirl]

Oh believe, me, Hardy, I get it!  How did it start to go to hell?  Do you think it was tolerance?

 

I think I mentioned that I unknowingly was in protracted withdrawal for 10 months after coming off Effexor.  I was in such a bad way that I went to a new p-doc out of desperation.  See, I had been trying to use serotonergic supplements to substitute for the Effexor.  I had such crazy syptoms, horrible mental fog, poor memory, racing thoughts, etc. that I thought I had ADD, after a friend planted that notion in my head.  So I went to be tested for it.  The psychologist said nope, but that I had depression, anxiety and OCD, but that there were drugs that could make me feel NORMAL!!  Can you believe that I fell for it again, after I had decided that drugs were no longer for me?!!!  I guess it helped that he said there were drugs that didn't have the sexual side effects!

 

Anyway, off I went to another p-doc who prescribed Viibryd.  The starting dose was ok for the first week, but then she had me move up to the next dosage, and all hell broke loose!  Off the charts anxiety, feer, doom, insomnia, more racing obsessive thoughts, very scary stuff!  So, I fast tapered back off of it.  Back onto the serotonergic supplements.  But at that point my system was so desensitized, I fell into waves of anxiety and fear like nothing before my life on drugs.  

 

5-htp and Sam-E.  I've now learned that Sam-E can actually cause anxiety!  I was so bad off that I actually stopped the supplements and took, the next day, a tiny piece of Effexor, maybe 12.5 mg.  Then I took it again the next day.  Then, the third day I took 375 mg, and then I began to have mild serotonin syndrome that scared the bejeezus out of me!  I went to yet another p-doc who prescribed 7.5 mg Remeron.  He said it was gentle, given to old people because it was, and that I could play with it and up the dose as needed.  I felt a better on it the first week; it took away the despondency.  But then it wasn't working, and so I went up to 15 mg.  That was ok for a few days and then it wasn't working again, and up up away I went!

 

By six weeks, I was at 37.5 mg and totally apathetic, no motivation, agoraphobia, couldn't feed or wash myself, the most dysfunctional I had ever been.  I had been trying to get an appointment with the doc because it JUST WASN'T WORKING and I needed help!!!!  All it did for me was allow me to sleep.

 

When I did see him, he thought it would be a good next step to start Effexor again, not because he realized I was in protracted withdrawal, but because I had tolerated it well in the past.  Well, within one hour of taking that first 37.5 mg reinstatement dose, the cloud was lifting!  

 

It was another week before I finally learned about protracted withdrawal, and that this is what I had been experiencing the prior 10 months.   I think the Viibryd really sensitized me.  When my doc added the Effexor, he reduced the mirt to 30 mg, which was a 20% cut.  I started having the numb tongue/lip sensation, and when I brought it up to him he didn't know what that was but that it didn't concern him!  I never had that symptom on Effexor.  I guess it could have been an Effexor side effect, but I suspect it was more likely a withdrawal symptom from mirt.  I also had diarrhea and headaches. 

 

So, I came here, and learned about tapering.  I decided that I should do the slow taper off mirt because of the risk of bad withdrawal, gathering the info that it is one of the worst to get off of.  Ironic, given the doc said it was so gentle!  I was pretty easy to get on!  I was only on it for 6 weeks before starting to reduce!  So yes, I get it!  I'lll have been tapering off of it way longer than I'd ever been on it.   It really sucks!

 

But even the 10% cuts caused anxiety reverberations that were unpleasant enough that I decided I'd try a 5% per 2 week taper.

 

I still don't know if mirt just pooped out on me, or whether the Effexor WD just bled through it.

 

I am at 16 mg now, and I am very worried about dropping below 10 as the single digits are where people seem to get in trouble, especially with sleep.

 

I'm sorry you are still suffering so much.  As I said to someone earlier today, "Frickin' Mit!"

[bubble]

Sometimes it doesn't matter how small cuts we make. Sometimes all our brain needs is holding and then some more holding.

 

What I notice about people who are tapering Mirtazapine is that (like every other drug) this one has a delayed withdrawal. I see people making cuts and feeling unsymptomatic and then sort of out of the blue be hit with bad withdrawal which doesn't go away.

 

Hardy, i can't see much from your signature... When did you start taking Mirtazapine, at what dose? Were you taking any other drugs before?

 

We often focus only on the last drug we have been taking but it is our overall drug exposure which is the best indicator of how slow and carefully we will have to go. If you say Mirtazapine never really worked for you and you had some prior drugs that could explain a lot of things. Going from 5.5 to 4.5 is around 20 % cut... If you were tapering that aggressively before it might be all those previous cuts are catching up with you. I put in my signature dates of my cuts so I can see how fast I'm actually going...

[hardy86]

Hi bubble and squirrellygirl

 

Thanks again for your kind support means the world to me. I'm not very good at computer but I'll ask my wife to help find my signature post. And great information you both share to me helps a lot. I can barely type depression is bad like a 7.5/10 anxiety not good to. I ask myself question is this withdrawal or not? Do I need to get help a start something else? How can you feel bad for months 24/7? Why can't I just at least settle again like I was over 3 months ago? I'm just going mad and losing hope. I think there's something really wrong with me and this is all hard to believe, and if I'm even doing the right thing to heal.

 

Reducing does of mirtizipine 15 mg

 

31/1/15 to 18/2/15

11.25mg

 

18/3/15

Reduce to 7.5mg

 

25/5/15

Reduce to 6.5mg

 

Felt awful 6/5/15 depression eased up later at night and bad anxiety training gym 5/5/15 and depression.

 

9/5/15 was bad anxiety very panicky mood very down down at gym but after gym felt better

 

10/5/15 feel much better after around a week of feeling bad.

 

22/7/15

Reduce to 5.5mg

13/8/15

Since 13/8/15 to 17/8 been feeling depressed panicky abit I feel it's anxiety little dizzy confused. Sux cause almost been a month to reduce dose again and normally don't feel bad this late in the month.

 

25/8/15

Reduce to 4.5mg

I'm feeling 6/10 at the moment 10 which is pretty ok

At nite.

 

4/4/15

 

2/4 to 4/4 depression mainly 7/10, anxiety abit. Felt ok on 5.5 abit but dropping to 4.5 hit me. Taking ethical fish oil again salmon oil didn't seem to work.

14/9/15

Since dropping 5.5 to 4.5 u think to much of a big drop around 20% next drop will be 10%.

Today is one of the worst depression for a while around 8/10 haven't had this bad for a while tried green tea seem to not work. I've been unsettled for a while now I pray I settled abit soon. I will update u diary when I get relief. But after gym today relief abit depression down to 5/10

 

22/9/15

This whole month has been pretty much hell can't settle at all bad depression anxiety to I guess. **** don't know what to do.

 

24/9/15- 25/9/15

 

Finally easing up abit. Start mutil vitamin seem really tired. Will stop after 3 days.

 

26/9

Bad day went walking at nite very dizzy tried to run no good even after walking and little bit jogging. Felt so tired later towards night.

 

27/9/15

Bad day so so tired all day no energy dizzy weak can't do anything. Had 2 naps. Must be anxiety like a zombie. Have to rest. Nite little improved.

 

29/9/15

The whole month I couldn't settle some good days but mainly hell depression. Because almost dropped 20 percent to much. I will attempt less drop next time. Back to 5.5 from 4.5

 

11/10/15

Start Passion flower

I can't settle the **** down since upping dose from 4.5 to 5.5mg. Bad every day it's hell. And last 1 week new symptom of me feeling mode none stop. Been taking Passion flower which seems to take edge of but severe anxiety won't slow down. This is killing me. I pray to god I settle soon.

12/10/15

Went dr today seen herbal doctor peter nightcliff gave me some herbal meds. Hope this will help me. Didn't take yet today taurine seems to help severe panicky anxiety a lot.

 

18/10/15

Start increasing roboxetine to 12 mg

Take 11am and take 430pm

 

21/10/15

******* had enough of feeling like **** panicky feeling very unsettled dizzy can't function cause the pain of depression with it all. First time since 1/15 taking Ativan js needed a ******* break from this fucked up pain.

 

29/10/15

Stop roboxetine 12mg

. Felt sick nausea so weak

. Stomach area small thumping constant

. If cause me to be more tired bad already as it is wanna sleep sleep no energy

. No energy to do my gym.

. No release why I wanna sleep early no energy after gym 12mg make it worst.

 

3/11/15

All week training worst after so tired no energy normally good after training but feeling awful going bed early cause so so drained. Nothing left in me. Hope this goes away soon so sad I will start b vitamins again from 8/11/15.

 

13/11/15

This is one of the worst day I have had crying 2 today and feel I js wanna die. So much pain. The reason I believe is this severe tiredness 24/7 I can't work out why so when I hit gym normally feel good but not cause so tired hit gym and after feel maybe worst before started cause used all my energy. This has lasted for about few weeks now. I came good for three days then went bad. I was thinking I had a virus few weeks back and just needed to sleep sleep. Done all my blood test seems good now have to doper blood test for virus. Normally gym saves my pain and get relief. But last 2 weeks can't get it cause severe tiredness. Making feel more depressed. As I love my gym to death.

 

18/11/15

Severe tiredness finally easing today.

 

17/11/15

Can't sleep properly to 20/11/15

I think drinking my mag drink has taurine in it keeping me up stop it.

 

27/11/15

Starting taking 1mg aspen melatonin. Seem to help first night already. Still feeling so tired fatigue been going now for this whole month

Very depressing I hope this passes. I wanna settle please god I want my life back so depressed. Went to sleep pretty ok I think and drinking camomile tea and magnesium tablets Swiss.

 

6/12/15

Life is fucked up my brother in law Emecka past away this won't help big time. Family is devastated lost words can't explain just cry in pain.

7/12/15

Finally sever fatigue easy

8/12/15

Tiredness still easing sleep ****

 

6/12/15

Start b complex see how I go for few weeks. Seems like gives me it if energy didn't have many morning naps. 12/15/15 stop b complex see how I go for energy and see if anxiety is less not sure if cause more anxiety.

12/12/15

Didn't use melatonin last night I think woke up for a period then sleep again.

 

Sorry for this long post I'm just in a world of a hole right now and my language is bad I know please don't judge me I'm a really nice person it's just letting my anger out.

 

Thanks guys a lot

[leahy]

I understand how confusing this can be. Feeling sick for so long makes us feel desperate. I admire you for all that you are doing to try to help yourself.

 

You have come to a good place, a place where amazing and knowledgeable people can help you sort through this.

 

I wish you good sleep and good healing. 

 

Hang on!

 

Leahy

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hey, I saw  that you slept 12/12 though you woke up a bit!  That is great news!!!

 

I see you threw an updose and then stopped reboxetine in there, may have unstabilized you more?  And it looked like you tapered around summer even though it sounded like you weren't feeling great.  Your system got very destabilized.  I don't know if you read anyone else's stories, but you might want to check out Bluebalu86's story.  Sorry Blue!  She got destabilized a couple of times in recent months from trying different things, and didn't give herself enough time to stabilize before making more changes, so I agree with Bubble about the changes catching up.

 

I know it is so hard to hang on, hardy, but healing will happen, eventually, it will!  Try to be patient and don't make any more changes or additions/subtractions without sharing your intentions here so that the collective wisdom may advise you.

 

Meanwhile, have you read Baylissa Fredericks' book Beyond Recovery?  It is available on Amazon for Kindle, reasonable, and it is so very helpful for easing one's mental suffering while in withdrawal.  She also does consults by phone or Skype (I think) very reasonably.  recovery-road.org.  Much of her message is about acceptance.  The sad fact is that once we are mired in withdrawal, it takes as long as it takes to heal, and fighting the symptoms, allowing yourself to get distressed, only prolongs your suffering.  Anxiety about suffering begets more suffering. So, it is really important that you not judge yourself or the withdrawal process, and try to accept it and not fight it.  I know that is very hard for your brain to digest right now :-)  I think every one of us who has found ourselves between this rock and a hard place fights and distresses over it for some time before finally accepting that it is what it is, and to just be kind and nurturing to ourselves.

 

Sending you hugs!

SG

[hardy86]

Hi squirrellygirl

What great information to share. I will follow up on this book. It's hard to believe how much pain it can cause 24/7 and non stop for over 4 months straight. I'm not sure if there is a lot of people who has suffered so so long and I mean suffered meaning a lot if times u feel like not living it's that bad and wanna give up on life, and u don't know where to run. But I hope this passes soon I pray to god. And will try hard.

 

Thanks squirrellygirl you are nice.

[hardy86]

Hi leahy

 

Hope u are well. Thanks for your comments.

 

Cheers

[hardy86]

Hi guys

 

You start to ask question like does even taking melatonin cause depression but I'm only taking 1mg. Not sure can this cause sever tiredness even. Anxiety changes your mind.

[Hopefull]

Hi Hardy86,

 

 

If I have learned anything during these 2 years is to accept things as they are.

Healing process can't be rushed along.

When you learn to accept this, you will start to heal.

Focus getting through each day and not in terms of months and years.

You will heal and one day the hard times will be a distant memory.

Take care, Hopefull.

[hardy86]

Hi hopefull

 

I will take your advice. I try so hard but can't help the pain so severe depression is so much pain. Cause the life I have kids work and can't do hardly much. But I will keep pushing.

 

Thanks

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hopeful is so right!

 

I can't stress how important that advice of taking one day at a time is!

 

A story:  I live in the California Central Valley, where from April through October, the temperatures get very hot, with summer being in the '90's and very often long strings of triple digits.  When I was in protracted WD this spring, I began to get very distressed over the heat coming on.  I hated it!  We had moved her due to my husband's job, and I absolutely HATED the heat, so imagine just having to put up with it.  In WD I felt completely overwhelmed by the notion.  The idea of the many months ahead of me being unrelenting heat was causing me so much distress, and I felt like there was no relief from it, since there was nothing I could do to change anything.  

 

Well, I began the EBT work, and in that work we look at unreasonable expectations and then we look at reasonable ones, ones that the brain can accept.  I can't remember what my unreasonable was, something about that I would be suffering all through the summer. My reasonable was "I will do the best I can to take one day at a time, one moment at a time if need be."  At this moment, I'm ok.  And in the next moment, I'm also ok - I'm not dying.  So literally, I can't take one moment at a time. 

 

It is the suffering of thinking about the future and worrying that it will continue to be horrible that keeps us trapped in our suffering.

 

Do get Baylissa's book, and when you are done with that one, I strongly encourage you to get Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now.  You may not be able to handle much reading, but just try to read a paragraph or two at a time.  I have found their words so comforting.

 

Also, you have no way to predict the future.  None of us do!  Fretting over it has no good purpose.  For all you know, tomorrow will be the day that your WD gets BETTER, not WORSE, right?

 

One more story for you.  I suffered from an eating disorder from when I was a teenager through a lot of my adult life.  Gaining weight was always distressing, and I hated my body for getting fat.  I always looked at my body as the enemy.  Mirt has caused me to gain weight, and I started having my old body-hate feelings come up.  But, I had a shift at last, where I saw that my body was not the enemy.  I couldn't help what the mirt was doing to it, and my body couldn't help it either LOL!  I began to realize my body is not at fault, my body is not the enemy.  I began to feel compassion for my poor body.  And that extends to the drugs and withdrawal.  Have compassion for your poor body that is going through this trauma, as well as your mind.  Comfort it and care for it like you would your child going through an illness.  You will recover, but in the meantime, step back and comfort that self that is going through this  :-)

 

SG

 

 

Hang in there buddy, you are not alone!  Don't let the WD win!

[SquirrellyGirl]

I meant to write "I CAN take one moment at a time!"

[hardy86]

Hi squirrellygirl

 

I had bad bad sleep last night no sleep pretty much. The depression has been so intense maybe 2 or third time this is ever happened to me man it's a killer. I start to question if the pharmacy compounded the drug for me to 5.5mg or something my body not agreeing to making it worst. Even question my melatonin has it stated building up in my system and 1mg might be to much and keeping me awake. Did antidepressants ever work for you squirrellygirl? It seems like I will be back to square 1 when I'm of the drugs plus more symptoms of course depression being the main I developed while on this mirtizpine. I was thinking that can roboxetine be replaced with another AD to help combat all this pain, actually that's what the doc wanted to do next is try more drugs to cobine with Mirtazapine till he found the right mix. But I never went back. I seem tempted to thought but unsure if this move. i have another baby Due in 3 months and sad I'm useless in helping my wife and can't get in with my life. How bad was your depression out if 10? 10 being the worst. Did your suffer badly for months and months?

 

Thanks

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi Hardy, 

 

Well, over the years of being on Effexor, I was never a joyous person happy with my life.  I still had the negativity and poor self-esteem, but I guess the drug just made me not care enough to do anything, to just not care in general.  I still had bouts of getting really upset, but that may have coincided with cutting back, something I did without a doctor's guidance.

 

When I went off Effexor last summer, I didn't know about protracted withdrawal, so when I started going through mental hell starting around late February and March, I didn't understand what was happening.  I became desperate about two months into it and saw a new p-doc after an episode of  mild serotonin syndrome. He put me on Remeron which I've read is used for serotonin syndrome, plus I couldn't eat or sleep.  It helped me sleep right away, and I felt a bit better initially, but very quickly I kept raising the dose because it wasn't working for the depression.  By the time I was at 37.5 mg, I was so bad I couldn't get off the couch, wash, eat...and I STILL didn't know about withdrawal.  I think either the Remeron just never worked for me, or the Effexor withdrawal couldn't be fixed by the Remeron.  I went through about a month of more hell waiting to see my p-doc again.  His assistant wouldn't return my messages of desperation, and so when I spoke to a receptionist and complained that I was really bad off and that they hadn't returned my calls, she said I should go to the ER and not wait for returned calls!

 

When I finally saw him, he put me back on Effexor, and everything turned around.  Had I known that I was in protracted withdrawal from Effexor and that was the cause of all my problems, maybe it would have made a difference, but at the same time I have seen the devastation that too fast tapers and cold turkey stops cause, so I guess I am lucky that reinstatement worked. 

 

So, I don't know what to say about what you should do.  Your suffering is profound and I know it is easy for everyone to say hang in there, but they aren't the ones in your shoes.

 

I know that my doctor said that the combination of Effexor and mirt supposedly causes a greater effectiveness than each drug alone.  I would NEVER encourage anyone to get on Effexor, though.  It is equally horrific to get off of as mirt.  I've heard that mirt and Effexor are the two worst!  Maybe, just maybe, a small amount of Prozac, 5 mg, might help.  It is entirely your choice and you shouldn't feel guilty if you decide that you need to try adding a drug.    I'm just worried you are sensitized and that adding another drug might be paradoxical.  I just don't know enough.  

 

It's like people ending up taking a little benzo to finally get sleep when they can't sleep for five days or whatever - getting sleep is most important so if that's the only way then that is better than getting none.  

 

If you do add another drug, you can stabilize, and now you have knowledge about doing an ultra-slow taper to get off hopefully without this kind of fall-out.  You might want to spend some time looking at what drugs are most often causing people trouble here on SA and decline those if your doctor wants to prescribe it.  Effexor, Paxil, Lexapro, Remeron, Celexa, Zoloft, all bad bad bad!!!  I'm sure there are more to definitely avoid.  Prozac may be the safest bet, but I would insist on starting very low, maybe 5 mg.  There is a link about using Prozac as a bridge, though usually for other SSRI/SNRIs.  The danged docs want to start everyone out so high and then up it really fast.  I wouldn't allow it!  Your system is very sensitized, so you don't want to create even more chaos by jumping in too big on anything.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1463-the-prozac-switch-or-bridging-with-prozac/?hl=prozac

 

Let me know your thoughts!

 

SG

 

Shoot, I don't even know that that is the answer.

 

Double check with the compounding pharmacy to see what they did. Maybe an updose of just a little more might help.  I just don't know.  We are in unchartered waters with this stuff. 

 

Before the compounding, how were you measuring your doses?

 

SG

[SquirrellyGirl]

I hope someone can chime in as to whether a Prozac bridge might work with mirt since poor Hardy is just worn out and a baby on the way!  Congratulations, Hardy!

 

SG

[hardy86]

Hi squirrellygirl

I've been using a digital scale. But recently bought a better one $120. You help means so much. Yeah I question myself if I was like this another 3-6 months of pain and still haven't settled I will start to think waiting to settle might not be the best choice and maybe another option trying something else. I don't know anyone on this forum has been bad 24/7 for at least 3-6 months.

Is hard to know the best option foe me.

 

Thanks

[brassmonkey]

Hi Hardy--  I'm sorry to hear that you're having so much trouble right now.  I would not add a different AD to try and stem the pain of WD, it would probably cause a lot more trouble.  I went back to your second post to see you tapering history and it tells me a lot.  You have tapered way, way too fast. 25%, 33%, 14%, 15%, 20%  it's no wonder you're having trouble. All those big cuts have caught up with you.  Mirtazapine is very tricky to taper and MUST be done slowly and methodically, especially at the lower doses.  Right now you need to let things stabilize before making any other changes.  How long ago did you updose to 5.5?  Please add that and a condensed account of your taper schedule to your signature so we can see wheat is going on.  Then we'll be able to make better suggestions.

[hardy86]

Hi brassmonkey

 

Do you live in Australia? Your support like these suggestions you are giving me means the world to me right now, I live in a isolated small town no support. I would love to catch up and have a chat with you would be awesome if you didn't mind. You are really kind to me in helping me. So 29/9/15 went back to 5.5mg. Thanks again brassmonkey I wanna give you a hug and really say thank you from my heart. Sorry for the language just my anger.

 

29/9/15

The whole month I couldn't settle some good days but mainly hell depression. Because almost dropped 20 percent to much. I will attempt less drop next time. Back to 5.5 from 4.5

 

11/10/15

Start Passion flower

I can't settle the **** down since upping dose from 4.5 to 5.5mg. Bad every day it's hell. And last 1 week new symptom of me feeling mode none stop. Been taking Passion flower which seems to take edge of but severe anxiety won't slow down. This is killing me. I pray to god I settle soon.

12/10/15

Went dr today seen herbal doctor peter nightcliff gave me some herbal meds. Hope this will help me. Didn't take yet today taurine seems to help severe panicky anxiety a lot.

 

18/10/15

Start increasing roboxetine to 12 mg

Take 11am and take 430pm

 

21/10/15

******* had enough of feeling like **** panicky feeling very unsettled dizzy can't function cause the pain of depression with it all. First time since 1/15 taking Ativan js needed a ******* break from this fucked up pain.

 

29/10/15

Stop roboxetine 12mg

. Felt sick nausea so weak

. Stomach area small thumping constant

. If cause me to be more tired bad already as it is wanna sleep sleep no energy

. No energy to do my gym.

. No release why I wanna sleep early no energy after gym 12mg make it worst.

 

3/11/15

All week training worst after so tired no energy normally good after training but feeling awful going bed early cause so so drained. Nothing left in me. Hope this goes away soon so sad I will start b vitamins again from 8/11/15.

 

13/11/15

This is one of the worst day I have had crying 2 today and feel I js wanna die. So much pain. The reason I believe is this severe tiredness 24/7 I can't work out why so when I hit gym normally feel good but not cause so tired hit gym and after feel maybe worst before started cause used all my energy. This has lasted for about few weeks now. I came good for three days then went bad. I was thinking I had a virus few weeks back and just needed to sleep sleep. Done all my blood test seems good now have to doper blood test for virus. Normally gym saves my pain and get relief. But last 2 weeks can't get it cause severe tiredness. Making feel more depressed. As I love my gym to death.

 

18/11/15

Severe tiredness finally easing today.

 

17/11/15

Can't sleep properly to 20/11/15

I think drinking my mag drink has taurine in it keeping me up stop it.

 

27/11/15

Starting taking 1mg aspen melatonin. Seem to help first night already. Still feeling so tired fatigue been going now for this whole month

Very depressing I hope this passes. I wanna settle please god I want my life back so depressed. Went to sleep pretty ok I think and drinking camomile tea and magnesium tablets Swiss.

 

6/12/15

Life is fucked up my brother in law Emecka past away this won't help big time. Family is devastated lost words can't explain just cry in pain.

7/12/15

Finally sever fatigue easy

8/12/15

Tiredness still easing sleep ****

 

6/12/15

Start b complex see how I go for few weeks. Seems like gives me it if energy didn't have many morning naps. 12/15/15 stop b complex see how I go for energy and see if anxiety is less not sure if cause more anxiety.

12/12/15

Didn't use melatonin last night I think woke up for a period then sleep again.

[nz11]

Hi brassmonkey

 

Do you live in Australia? Your support like these suggestions you are giving me means the world to me right now, I live in a isolated small town no support. I would love to catch up and have a chat with you would be awesome if you didn't mind. You are really kind to me in helping me. .... Thanks again brassmonkey I wanna give you a hug and really say thank you from my heart.

 

 

Just thought i would gently point out to my West island neighbour that Brassmonkey is in California not Canberra !

 

Thats just a little bit north east of and quite a swim from  where all our marsupial furry friends live....if you do decide to undertake the swim then give him a bro hug from me too. !

[brassmonkey]

Hi Hardy-- Glad I can be of service.  I'll have to take a rain check on the meet up, because as NZ11 pointed out I hang out on the other side of the world from you.  One of these days though I would love to visit Oz and maybe stop by those other two islands too, it's been a while since I was there.

[hardy86]

Hi brassmonkey

 

Wow squirrellygirl does live a distance away.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Yes, I do!  Brassmonkey, I wonder how close we are?  I'm in the CA Central Valley near Fresno. I sometimes think it would be so cool to have a meetup of people from this site as fellow travellers coming off this horrid drugs! 

 

Hardy, how are you today?